This is a fabulous recipe! This morning when we did our normal two loaves, they came out much more dense than previous bakes and our eureka moment came when we realized we did not add additional gluten to the bread flour. We use Dakota Maid "bread flour", but it only has 3 grams of protein to 31 grams of flour - that is 9.677% protein (NOT high protein flour). Normally, I measure 225 g flour and add 20 g of gluten (8 g per 100 g of flour) for a single loaf. I forgot to do the gluten this time and the loaves came out significantly more dense. The bread is still excellent for sandwiches . . and it's by no means *flat* - it just doesn't have the larger distributed air pockets. This is an old thread, but I hope my comment helps you identify possible problems with dense loaves. I love this recipe - fwiw, I like to add 3 Tbs of dutch cocoa to my flour to make a dark rye loaf. It never lasts very long in this house!
I made this rye bread this morning. It is definitely the best rye bread that I ever ate. It is such a wet dough! I honestly didn't think it would come out being that wet, but to my surprise, it worked. I had a hard time trying to find anise, but eventually after several stores, I found the actual star of anise and ground my own. Very fresh! This recipe is a keeper.
Excellent recipe. Exact and concise instructions. I made this one without the spices and orange using a rye sourdough starter. Everything worked out perfectly. Thank you so much for sharing your passion for superb bread!
I don't have the lovely proofing basket or clay bakers. But I have discovered this method that has been working for me. After the dough has it's over night rise I simply scrape it into a parchment lined mixing bowl. Cover it and leave it for two hours. At the hour and a half point I preheat my cast iron roaster like you did your clay baker. When it comes time to put the dough in the pot I simply use the parchment paper edges to sling it into the pot. Bake as to your instructions. I don't have control over the cracks that form but I kind of like that rustic look.
I've made this three times now (without the orange peel) and my loaf is baked on a stone not in a covered container. What I discovered it that 1-1/2 hour and up to 2 hours (My house sits at 68/70 degrees during the winter) is about right for the 2nd rise (assuming you're NOT using yeast). Yes, at one hour there's more oven spring but it also cracks badly on the sides instead of expanding properly from my relief cuts. And for me baking for an internal temperature of 200 degree makes for gummy rye bread. Dropping the oven temp to 450 for the first period and 425 for the 2nd and waiting until internal temp reaches 208 makes for a almost perfect loaf. After the first 30 minutes I stick in my temp gauge, set the limit alarm for 208 and bake uncovered at 425. The bake times extends another 10 to 12 minutes. Also, leaving the bread cool for two hours instead of one also helps with the gummy factor when dealing with this much rye flour. 4/28/2019. I've braked this bread varying hydration and baking temperature many times now (using stone instead of a clay baker).. What I've discovered is that the current hydration of 82% (without considering the pre-ferment) makes the dough hard to handle but not impossible. I've also discovered that reducing hydration to 68% makes for a dough that's easy to handle and produces a wonderful sandwich loaf (no huge holes). Also, baking at 475 makes for a gummy loaf because this recipe is 50% rye and the baking time is short at this temperature. Rye likes long bakes and I've read in decades past in Germany Rye was baked as the oven cooled and it baked for hours. I first tried 475 for 15 minutes and then 425 for the rest of the bake (By the way I make a loaf with 700 grams of flour on day two. It's a big loaf). That improved the gummy texture but still wasn't perfect. I then looked at commercial bakers of rye bread and discovered they baked their ryes at 375. So, I started my bake at 475 for max oven spring for 10 minutes and then opened the oven rotated the bread (allowing much of the high heat to escape) removed my steam pan and reset the oven for 375. This extended bake time considerably ( I bake until the bread's internal temperature reaches 208 degrees F.) The crust no longer blackened. It was a caramel color instead. But, the bread was no longer gummy or felt damp every day after baking. This turn out to be the perfect time and temperature to make wonderful sandwich bread. For those that use stone and therefore need steam for maximum oven spring I've discovered putting lava rock in the pan and then dropping the hot water over the rock makes for wonderful steam. Be careful and use a long handle on what holds your water or you'll burn yourself on the steam. I stick my dough whisk into the handle of my pot for this purpose.
About how long does the bread bake at 375 F? I would really like to try your method with the bake temperatures and times but I don't have a thermometer and will have to go by the look and hopefully a recommended time.
I just tried this recipe and it was a fail. Dough overproofed, gummy at internal temp of 200. Thank you for your concise tips on how to make this bread recipe work better. I also bake on a stone and steam with water on lava rocks. Will implement your tips for second try. Thanks again.
I'm going to try 40 additional minutes for starters. Great tips! Going to play with hydration also, as I want to use at least half freshly milled whole wheat flour instead of white flour.
Eric, I just made my first loaf! And considering I do not have a proofing basket or a clay baker, done on my newly acquired baking stone, it came out so wonderfully delicious! Did not look so pretty, but dang, best and only rye bread I have ever liked! Thank you for making these wonderful tutorials for us. I also made the sour dough starter by your method, have made 2 starters, one rye, the other whole wheat...1 week to the day I am making sourdough bread..wheeeeee .... can't wait for tonight, going to make a whole wheat loaf. Thanks again
I am still making this bread since the video launch. It is fantastic! I did do a tweek or two. Adding a few tsp of vital gluten and a few tablespoons of concentrated OJ. My kitchen is smelling divine at the moment :) Thank you.
Your bread looks fantastic. The recipe with all those spices and orange zest is mouth watering. Now I just have to get a sour dough together so I can try it.
Dear Eric, I tried to make your sourdough rye bread with the exact measures you give in your video. When I left the dough on countertop to proof overnight it over proofed as it is around 30C here at nights in Istanbul, Turkey. Should I have kept it in the fridge overnight? What is the climate at where you live? Could you give me some instructions as to how to manage this dough without it sticking to proofing basket or spreading like a pudding when I put it in my Schlemmer Topf clay pot. The outcome was much better than I thought, the taste was wonderful but the looks of it really did not impress me that much. I am just trying to bake 100% rye without the white flour and will see how it turns out in a while. All I need is to manage the consistency of the dough sticky enough but not to sticky that it sticks to everywhere it touches. Thank you very much. Elif Uz
*trigger warning* I’m going to bring up some bread sacrilege topics- keto! I’m a new type 2 diabetic and working hard to reverse. I’ve loved baking, or just eating, bread for years. Now, of course, it’s on the bad list. There is data suggesting slow fermented sourdough, especially rye, has a lower glycemic index because the cultures actually eat much of the wheat sugars. All the keto people bake with almond or rice or lupin (bean) flours. I’m going to try this with 1/3 each white, rye, and lupin to cut the remaining carbs further. Building the starter, day 5 now. Any thought/ suggestions? If it doesn’t work, I’ll go back to the original. I do miss wonderful fresh, homemade bread!
I was so hopeful when I made this. During bulk fermentation, I woke up at 3 a.m. and peeked at dough. Looked so nice and fluffy, rising. When I got up at 7 a.m. (makes 12 hours bulk fermentation), the dough had fallen. I think overproofed. Did not want to throw dough away, so went ahead with rest of directions. I bake on a stone and steam by pouring water on lava rocks in pans at the bottom of the oven. My bread was a total failure. Spread too much, no oven spring, bread gummy. I took photos but can’t figure out how to add to this comment.
I use the same measurements as you, but mine is always way too wet, ending up in me adding handfuls of flour at the folding stage just to get it to keep its shape
@@op3129 I just tried this last night for the first time. This morning after 10 hours it was way too sticky to work with so I assume it over proofed. My kitchen is not warm so thinking my starter is very active?
Same here... I make 75% hydration sourdough bread but this was like wet cake mix in the morning (14 hours in the UK @ ~19 degrees). Impossible to fold, I'll use much less water next time.
Hi - bread tastes great but did not get any oven spring so no real rise. Dough was very sticky but did rise on the final proof. Baked in a dutch oven. Any idea on why there was no spring? Thanks!
It's not easy to say without more details or even photos. Overproofing (during the first or second rise) can result in a sticky dough and lack of oven spring. The inside in this case is not dense. But if your bread's inside was dense and gummy, then I'd say it was likely the opposite, underproofing.
I've made this twenty times in the last decade. Greatest video on all of the Internet. I leave out the caraway.
This is a fabulous recipe! This morning when we did our normal two loaves, they came out much more dense than previous bakes and our eureka moment came when we realized we did not add additional gluten to the bread flour. We use Dakota Maid "bread flour", but it only has 3 grams of protein to 31 grams of flour - that is 9.677% protein (NOT high protein flour). Normally, I measure 225 g flour and add 20 g of gluten (8 g per 100 g of flour) for a single loaf. I forgot to do the gluten this time and the loaves came out significantly more dense. The bread is still excellent for sandwiches . . and it's by no means *flat* - it just doesn't have the larger distributed air pockets. This is an old thread, but I hope my comment helps you identify possible problems with dense loaves. I love this recipe - fwiw, I like to add 3 Tbs of dutch cocoa to my flour to make a dark rye loaf. It never lasts very long in this house!
I made this rye bread this morning. It is definitely the best rye bread that I ever ate. It is such a wet dough! I honestly didn't think it would come out being that wet, but to my surprise, it worked. I had a hard time trying to find anise, but eventually after several stores, I found the actual star of anise and ground my own. Very fresh! This recipe is a keeper.
Excellent recipe. Exact and concise instructions. I made this one without the spices and orange using a rye sourdough starter. Everything worked out perfectly.
Thank you so much for sharing your passion for superb bread!
i am being very positive and getting ready to bake my first loaves 1 for my family and one for a friend. Wish me luck!
Teresa Finnerty how did it turn out ?
It was so beautiful and amazing. The only thing I didn't have was anise seed. But it was a huge hit.
I don't have the lovely proofing basket or clay bakers. But I have discovered this method that has been working for me. After the dough has it's over night rise I simply scrape it into a parchment lined mixing bowl. Cover it and leave it for two hours. At the hour and a half point I preheat my cast iron roaster like you did your clay baker. When it comes time to put the dough in the pot I simply use the parchment paper edges to sling it into the pot. Bake as to your instructions. I don't have control over the cracks that form but I kind of like that rustic look.
Thanks for sharing your skills and recipe!
Very clear, concise, and understandable tutorial.
Well done!!
I've made this three times now (without the orange peel) and my loaf is baked on a stone not in a covered container. What I discovered it that 1-1/2 hour and up to 2 hours (My house sits at 68/70 degrees during the winter) is about right for the 2nd rise (assuming you're NOT using yeast). Yes, at one hour there's more oven spring but it also cracks badly on the sides instead of expanding properly from my relief cuts. And for me baking for an internal temperature of 200 degree makes for gummy rye bread. Dropping the oven temp to 450 for the first period and 425 for the 2nd and waiting until internal temp reaches 208 makes for a almost perfect loaf. After the first 30 minutes I stick in my temp gauge, set the limit alarm for 208 and bake uncovered at 425. The bake times extends another 10 to 12 minutes. Also, leaving the bread cool for two hours instead of one also helps with the gummy factor when dealing with this much rye flour.
4/28/2019. I've braked this bread varying hydration and baking temperature many times now (using stone instead of a clay baker).. What I've discovered is that the current hydration of 82% (without considering the pre-ferment) makes the dough hard to handle but not impossible. I've also discovered that reducing hydration to 68% makes for a dough that's easy to handle and produces a wonderful sandwich loaf (no huge holes). Also, baking at 475 makes for a gummy loaf because this recipe is 50% rye and the baking time is short at this temperature. Rye likes long bakes and I've read in decades past in Germany Rye was baked as the oven cooled and it baked for hours. I first tried 475 for 15 minutes and then 425 for the rest of the bake (By the way I make a loaf with 700 grams of flour on day two. It's a big loaf). That improved the gummy texture but still wasn't perfect. I then looked at commercial bakers of rye bread and discovered they baked their ryes at 375. So, I started my bake at 475 for max oven spring for 10 minutes and then opened the oven rotated the bread (allowing much of the high heat to escape) removed my steam pan and reset the oven for 375. This extended bake time considerably ( I bake until the bread's internal temperature reaches 208 degrees F.) The crust no longer blackened. It was a caramel color instead. But, the bread was no longer gummy or felt damp every day after baking. This turn out to be the perfect time and temperature to make wonderful sandwich bread. For those that use stone and therefore need steam for maximum oven spring I've discovered putting lava rock in the pan and then dropping the hot water over the rock makes for wonderful steam. Be careful and use a long handle on what holds your water or you'll burn yourself on the steam. I stick my dough whisk into the handle of my pot for this purpose.
How long does it take, typically, for you bread to reach internal 208 at the lower temperature? I don't have a thermometer like that.
About how long does the bread bake at 375 F? I would really like to try your method with the bake temperatures and times but I don't have a thermometer and will have to go by the look and hopefully a recommended time.
I just tried this recipe and it was a fail. Dough overproofed, gummy at internal temp of 200. Thank you for your concise tips on how to make this bread recipe work better. I also bake on a stone and steam with water on lava rocks. Will implement your tips for second try. Thanks again.
I'm going to try 40 additional minutes for starters. Great tips! Going to play with hydration also, as I want to use at least half freshly milled whole wheat flour instead of white flour.
Eric, I just made my first loaf! And considering I do not have a proofing basket or a clay baker, done on my newly acquired baking stone, it came out so wonderfully delicious! Did not look so pretty, but dang, best and only rye bread I have ever liked! Thank you for making these wonderful tutorials for us. I also made the sour dough starter by your method, have made 2 starters, one rye, the other whole wheat...1 week to the day I am making sourdough bread..wheeeeee ....
can't wait for tonight, going to make a whole wheat loaf. Thanks again
Ravenspirit q
Loved this explanation and recipe. My bread came out beautifully. So happy. Simply delicious.
I am still making this bread since the video launch. It is fantastic! I did do a tweek or two. Adding a few tsp of vital gluten and a few tablespoons of concentrated OJ. My kitchen is smelling divine at the moment :) Thank you.
Your bread looks fantastic. The recipe with all those spices and orange zest is mouth watering. Now I just have to get a sour dough together so I can try it.
Great bread, Eric! Keep up the work!
Wonderful videos. Thank you so much for your easy Simple instructions. I learn a lot . 🙏🏼🙏🏼💜💙
I am gonna make this bbread soon, VERY soon!
Good lord that looks delicious. All I need is some homemade butter to slather on and life is gooooood!
Just made this, and it worked!!! I didn't do enough flouring to prevent some sticking, but I'll just have to practice! Yip!
Amazing !!! Thank you so much for your easy video. I am going to try this week.
Now that bread looks dam good!
Thanks for making the video.
Nice work!!
Beautiful!
Awesome
. I am going to bake this
Made it, love it. Grateful.
Dear Eric, I tried to make your sourdough rye bread with the exact measures you give in your video. When I left the dough on countertop to proof overnight it over proofed as it is around 30C here at nights in Istanbul, Turkey. Should I have kept it in the fridge overnight? What is the climate at where you live? Could you give me some instructions as to how to manage this dough without it sticking to proofing basket or spreading like a pudding when I put it in my Schlemmer Topf clay pot. The outcome was much better than I thought, the taste was wonderful but the looks of it really did not impress me that much. I am just trying to bake 100% rye without the white flour and will see how it turns out in a while. All I need is to manage the consistency of the dough sticky enough but not to sticky that it sticks to everywhere it touches. Thank you very much. Elif Uz
Very Good well done.
Do U make 100% rye sourdough?
You should visit Latvia and try our black bread. ;)
*trigger warning* I’m going to bring up some bread sacrilege topics- keto! I’m a new type 2 diabetic and working hard to reverse. I’ve loved baking, or just eating, bread for years. Now, of course, it’s on the bad list. There is data suggesting slow fermented sourdough, especially rye, has a lower glycemic index because the cultures actually eat much of the wheat sugars. All the keto people bake with almond or rice or lupin (bean) flours. I’m going to try this with 1/3 each white, rye, and lupin to cut the remaining carbs further. Building the starter, day 5 now. Any thought/ suggestions? If it doesn’t work, I’ll go back to the original. I do miss wonderful fresh, homemade bread!
I was so hopeful when I made this. During bulk fermentation, I woke up at 3 a.m. and peeked at dough. Looked so nice and fluffy, rising. When I got up at 7 a.m. (makes 12 hours bulk fermentation), the dough had fallen. I think overproofed. Did not want to throw dough away, so went ahead with rest of directions. I bake on a stone and steam by pouring water on lava rocks in pans at the bottom of the oven. My bread was a total failure. Spread too much, no oven spring, bread gummy. I took photos but can’t figure out how to add to this comment.
great instructions, thanks
I use the same measurements as you, but mine is always way too wet, ending up in me adding handfuls of flour at the folding stage just to get it to keep its shape
how long is your first (bulk) ferment?
@@op3129 I just tried this last night for the first time. This morning after 10 hours it was way too sticky to work with so I assume it over proofed. My kitchen is not warm so thinking my starter is very active?
Same here... I make 75% hydration sourdough bread but this was like wet cake mix in the morning (14 hours in the UK @ ~19 degrees). Impossible to fold, I'll use much less water next time.
Could you tell me what kind/brand of gloves you are using?
Could I have the link for this recipe?
How can i make this bread with a rye starter?
My dough came out runny. Why is that?
I followed your steps, one by one.
But I couldn’t lift it to the vessel. It was runny.
thank you for sharing !
Hi - bread tastes great but did not get any oven spring so no real rise. Dough was very sticky but did rise on the final proof. Baked in a dutch oven. Any idea on why there was no spring? Thanks!
It's not easy to say without more details or even photos. Overproofing (during the first or second rise) can result in a sticky dough and lack of oven spring. The inside in this case is not dense. But if your bread's inside was dense and gummy, then I'd say it was likely the opposite, underproofing.
5:39 cat alert
Lol....yup! That was a sneaky one.....
In nine years you’ve probably learned a lot. You should do an updated version. Way too much added flour in my opinion.
carbon dioxide pockets