HOW TO WRITE A SEQUEL | What Writers Can Learn from Good Omens S2
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- Опубліковано 11 сер 2023
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I agree with what you said about season 2 being an intimate time with the characters. I think the problem I had was expectations. I kept waiting for the mystery of Gabriel to be revealed as some big, earth shattering thing that would be revealed part way through the season. It took away my enjoyment of the intimate moments because I was too focused on the mystery, and then those expectations that I had built up were not met. That's not the fault of the show (though it might be the fault of the trailer).
I already laughed before you mentioned bookborn, I knew you will play that troll card. 😂😂
You couldn’t be more right with the reference with David Tennant being the Doctor. 👏👏
Thank you! That is some good food for thought. I think I am an outlier, as I did not care for S2 as much as others. At times I was bored and didn’t think thee characters, particularly Crowley, had the sparkle and edge that were so outstanding in S1. I adored S1, and it could’ve stopped there for me. I will watch S3, as I think that could contain the elements that made S1 so good for me and perhaps less of the ones that didn’t work as well.
Yes yes yes to all of this! I only just watched S1 because I saw the trailer for S2 and that really piqued my interest. And funnily enough, I am now enjoying S2 MUCH more than the original season, because I wasn't really too keen on the whole apocolypse plot and all the scenes with the kids in the first season. The dynamic between Aziraphale and Crowley SHINES in the second season and I am honestly living my best life. What an utter delight 🤩
I am excited to get to season 2 since the best thing about season 1 for me was their chemistry, although the Doctor Who section reminded me I need to rewatch Doctor Who for the new David Tenant episodes coming out!
Very much liked the first season but I watched the first two episodes of season 2 and I really don't like it this far. It's first episode hit me over the head with a multitude of premises and involved characters without leaving time and opportunity for me to care about any of them. The second episode was just a high school play trying to replicate Monty Python sketches.
I haven’t seen season two yet, but this is brilliant analysis. Kudos to you.
Thanks!
I’ve watched the first couple of episodes of season 2 and have not really cared for it. However, I like your take on it, so I’m going to give it another try.
Season 2 was just 3 love stories put together. It was not terrible to watch, but after it was over, I felt disappointed. I thought: well it would have been enough if they would have just made one season. Felt that I wasted my time...
season 2 exists to put things into place for the begining of season 3, which is the one based on the actual sequel to the book (that wasn't written but was discussed) so it's meant to be easy to watch and not so complex. only needed to set the bases, the next season is gonna be The Big Thing. all this based on what Neil Gaiman has said on interviews and online. he literally said s2 is a stuffing sandwich. it's supposed to be this way.
your right of course, but the entire time I was still asking "where is the sword?" and was kinda shocked it wasn't in the big bookshop scene at the end
You make some really excellent points.
As a Marvel fan I will say the some of the biggest issues facing the franchise right now is 1. They are focused on big team up’s and crossovers that make it impossible to be a casual viewer (example: you can’t watch Dr Strange and the Multiverse of Madness without watching WandaVision) and 2. I honestly think big team ups are planned without a cohesive storyline being planned more than one project ahead of time so that you get a very cobbled together plot line that has plot holes and outright contradictions just to make things work. All of which can be applied to many long running franchises (both movies and shows).
I enjoyed season two much more because it was more intimate/ focused on the main relationship.
I adored season 2- it was so character based and delightful.
And yes, season 8 of Game of Thrones was a train wreck.
I loved season 2❤, but if there isn't a season 3...😭😭. David and Michael are so amazing❤
Just today I read that season 3 is planned to use what Gaiman and Pratchett had for a sequel. Gaiman said there is a beginning and an end set, with a plotted story in between. He also said, that he would write it as a novel, if season 3 were not to happen. With the strikes ongoing, nothing can be done and who knows what happens after that. So he seems very committed to get the story out. It will be interesting to see. I enjoyed Season 2, which he calls a bridge between the books. And I think you were spot on. It was just .. so nice and charming to be with these characters again. No apocalypse needed.
Yes I saw something about that, which is great news!
So, he decided not to base this season on the planned with sir Terry sequel to the book? As he kinda promised. And entirely made it up by himself? I can see where it all comes from now.
Hi Liene! Loved season 2, though I loved season 1 more. The only downside is that is seemed less polished - which makes sense, given that season 1 was a book first and then reworked very carefully for the different medium and changed times. Much more time to polish it. But the characters, relationships and acting were all amazing and captivating. You are very right, season 2 made sense in the context of season 1, NOT of the book. And that makes it great - leaning into the strengths and the distinctive features of the show. Very much hoping it gets renewed for season 3 :)
Hope so too but if not at least we’ll get a book
Good Omens is knit into the threads of my family culture at this point.... We've all read it at least once, we watch season 1 a few times a year. There are t shirts and swag.
So.... we were SOOOOO excited and nervous for season 2. And it actually delivered!!! The first few episodes were just what you said... scaled back and intimate character growth time. I didn't care for episode 4, it felt like a filler before launching to the end sequence. But as character driven readers/watchers, my teens were broken by the finish. So many feels.
But my reaction was -- omg that had perfect 2nd book energy!!! And I'm a second book girl, so that's a compliment. 😂 Thanks for sticking whatever comes before a landing, Gaiman and crew.❤
I'm still confused about the recycled actors though....
That sounds so lovely, great to hear of your collective love for it! And glad Season 2 didn’t disappoint
I didn't like seasion 2 as much as seasion 1 but it was still great. Enjoyed your review and explanation of this.
I really like that you point out they made a sequel to the show and not the book, because Neil has mentioned that we NEEDED s2 to get to the plot of s3, which was going to be a sequel of the book. So, I think he took into consideration the changes made for the show, tried to aling both stories w s2, so that s3 can be as faithful to the book as it'll be to the show. I am more character based and i LOVED this season more than the first one, because we just get quiet moments w beautiful people!
I stopped watching Doctor Who at the same point. I felt season 2 was Good Omens fan fiction. I did not think of it as Good Omens. Opinions vary. Yes, the two actors on screen at the same time were great, but the rest of the story? Just bland.
Very much agree! I loved it, actually quite a lot more than the 1st season 😅
I joked that once you remove the prejudice witch hunter and the purposely annoying kids, and decide to focus on what we're all here for the angels and demons, the show is great!
Oh but I love the kids and the witch! But yeah, Crowley and Aziraphale are the reason we’re here
@LienesLibrary oh I loved the witch!
Couldn't stand reading/watching the old witch hunter. The kid is the antichrist, so everything I don't like about him was intentional but just irked me
I loved good omen 1, and you pointed out pretty much what was great in it : the actors are phenomenal and they have great chemistry. And season two captured that rather well.
But I have two issues with s2, one minor and one major.
The minor 1 is about plot execution. Spoiler alert for end of s2
The whole setting for the poot is some kind of big mystery surrounding Michael. They try to make it sound really ominous, and they kind of manage to sell some kind of big apocalypse 2.0 is about to happen.
And then the mystery is mai tained pretty much throughout all of s2, no particular progress being made, until they rush to try to resolve it all in the final episode, mainly through flashbacks. Rather than dropping hints that could actually help us buy the "big reveal" as the episodes go on, they have to drop it all off in one go, and that make it feel forced and awkward. And the "big reveal" is rather underwhelming given the set up.
Then there is my bigger gripe : depictions of platonic deep wholesome friendships are rare, and when it comes to friendships between male characters, they are even more exceptional. These people rely on each other, confide in each other, trust each other and have gone through thick and thin together. Why oh why, for fuck sake, did they have to make that into a repressed romance? No! Those two worked great as friends.but given the ending of S2, now all of crowley's action get to be reinterpreted as unrequited love, and suddenly that whole relationship stinks.
Not to mention that we get told enough that "men need to be more open about their emotions", but as soon as modern shows present men who connect emotionally "well that means you are actually gay" people try to ship Frodo and Sam, and now even Neil Gaiman has stooped to writing slash fanfic, and I sensed a disturbance in the force, as if millions of fans sighed in disappointment while a few more twisted ones had an orgasm.
And they could have had the exact same ending minus the Azirowley, with Crowley still being disappointed in Aziraphale turning his back on the lessons he learned along Crowley throughout millennia, and it would have been great.
Or, as per point 1, they could have used the whole season to actually move us in that direction. Because S1 and the book clearly depict nothing more that a wholesome friendship, and for all of S2, where they go quite in depth about background and flashback of the characters, there is not one iota indicating anything else. In fact, given that those are celestial beings, and how overall oblivious they are depicted, there is not even a hint that they are capable of romance. Demons would find the concept repulsive, and while one could imagine them giving into luxury and debauchery, not even a hint of that is presented anywhere, meanwhile angels are, well, angels. Even the idea of drinking tea makes them incomfortable, let alone the idea of exchanging bodily fluids. In fact, a big plot point of the season is precisely that angels and demons understand absolutely nothing about love, as even our main protagonists, who are by far the most in tune with humanity of the lot, barely rely on novels and movie plots to get a basic grasp of how people fall in love.
All of which contribute to make it even more jarring when the whole reveal thi g is that Michael is actually in love with Beelzebub and Crowley is in love with Aziraphale.
They could have used the whole season showing us how angels and demons actually have a sense of romance to some extent, possibly making it a thing through the falling in love of the two human neighbors which could have become a battlefield between the protagonists and the antagonists, adding some needed tension, but instead they actually got out of their way in showing us how everyone is completely clueless about roman, dissolving immediately any tension there could be around "they need to fall in love or our hiding Michael is discovered" given that anyway, anybody swallows any lies presented to them as they understand nothing of it.
And so what could have been great TV turns into really bad writing because of that last episode.
Fully agree with you. There was a lot to like in S2 and I really enjoyed the first couple of episodes, but the ending is rushed and unsatisfying and the various attempts at romance are forced and feel off.
Liene made some great points about this being a sequel to S1, not the book, and the different nature of a small scale sequel next to a world spanning first book/series. But I thought she brought up GoT to point out problems with sticking the landing and staying true to the characters. Your point about Sam and Frodo is spot on: let these guys be friends. That’s rare enough. They’re angels and demons and they’re asexual and don’t get love. That’s their thing and that’s what makes their finding humanity through friendship special.
And yes, they kept the storyline going about getting the two shopkeepers to fall in love well past the point where it made any sense to the overall plot. It feels almost risky to point this out because they’re both same sex relationships, so there’s an easy accusation of homophobia, but that’s not the issue. Even my 13 year old daughter, with whom I watched the show, felt the same way. And homophobia is a grave sin to her.
Finally, the love story of Gabriel and Beelzebub drops out of thin air and seems unearned and illogical. It all feels like a first draft with a lot of disparate ideas that hadn’t fully been thought through and coalesced into a coherent whole.
I do love the characters and the actors and will watch S3 if it ever comes out, but the writers fumbled the ball at the end, which made it an overall disappointing sequel.
Having just watched season 2 a couple days ago I can say that I wasn't impressed.
It was 6 hrs. of a mystery box and two taboo love plots that added little to nothing to the first season and the final episode of the season is where it should have started. Which just felt cheap to try and build hype for season 3.
The entire season I was wondering what it was leading to, what was going to be the payoff... and there wasn't one. That's is fine if you want to watch a handful of likeable characters stumbling about trying to figure out the mystery box, but it was freaking boring.
Season 2 is lacking in pretty much everything season 1 had, save for the cast which are still on their A game.
The overall main cast is much smaller and the side characters aren't nearly as interesting or memorable.
The writing isn't nearly as tight and sometimes had me cringing one or two times.
The stakes are non-existent.
Even the theological ideas that were interwoven into the first to play with certain ideas were just slapped in here and there.
And even God in the first season was more present as an omniscient narrator but only has two appearances in season two and could have been cut out completely.
It just felt pointless and not nearly as engaging, immersive, funny, or even entertaining.
The one thing I really did like is the debate in 18th Century England about the morality of doing wrong for the greater good vs the right thing for the wrong reasons, that was interesting and what I really liked about season 1. The rest I barely remember today, and won't by next week.
Exactly this! Completely agree with everything you said.
Fuck yeah!🎉
I loved season two. I actually didn't care too much for the plot in season 1 so I probably prefered season 2 overall.
Interesting, wouldn’t have expected that
I'd disagree about ever having watched Doctor Who (solely) for the interplay between the Doctor and the Companion/s.
I know you would probably not state it like this on purpose, and it only came off this way in the video because you were going off the top of your head a bit there, but let me argue this for a sec regardless:
If that were the case, episodes where one, the other, or both, were not present, would be missing something, which they do not seem to.
The Tennant era especially had notable episodes where he was doing stuff without Companions (The Girl in the Fireplace; Midnight, and many more), where the Doctor was not himself for most of it, and the Companion had to deal with what was going on (The Family of Blood), or where both were absent (Blink).
I am not trying to say that all of the episodes the interplay between Doctor and Companions does not play a role are great, but the ones I have listed certainly are.
Some of the best of the Tennant era, I would argue. Even The Waters of Mars, though mediocre, was great in the ending.
I would argue what made Doctor Who appealing was what, in part, made Rick and Morty appealing.
It was an at times flippant, at times completely serious, episodic play on Science Fiction.
For example: Nine times out of ten, the Doctor can explain everything going on as a scientific phenomenon, from witches to vampires, top flesh-eating shadows, and things are fun and exciting and sometimes make you think. And the tenth time he meets Satan, locked away next to a black hole, and it shakes his worldview, and he leaves the episode with more questions than answers, a wiser man, but completely traumatized.
I lost interest gradually throughout the Matt Smith era, because the show started, and never stopped, to lean into its own tropes, thereby creating them, thereby becoming formulaic.
Yes, I stopped during Cappaldi, but I really should have stopped as things became glued to the idea of a season-spanning plot in the Smith era, and later to a plot spanning several seasons.
It is kind of a shame that episodic storytelling is out of fashion these days.
I agree with you in theory but it definitely didn't translate in Good Omens season 2. The two actors have great chemistry and are brilliant in their roles and they carried the season but there was nothing else to it. It didn't really have a story. I agree it didn't need to be apocalypse level adventures but there had to be something. There was no throughline at all. It lacked the wittiness and charm of the first season/book. I was greatly disappointed.
Why’d you have to do me dirty like that and call me out I thought we were friends
Sry but that's not a Pratchett. 🚫
I didn’t like season 2 as much. It missed the interesting earth characters, whether the zany witchfinders, the clever youths of Them, or the practical witch.
I'm in the middle of S2. The truth is that the ONLY reason I watch is for Sheen and Tennant. I literally remember nothing from S1. Replace them and it is a terrible show. The thing that bothers me the most is how smug it is - it thinks it's great...
"Were they just going to make it up?" Yeah. That's what all fiction is.
am i the only one that got bored watching season 1?
Yes
Yes
Yes
Sorry, but this is as bad as Wheel of Time to me. The only difference is Michael Sheen and David Tennant have more charisma on screen. Writing is horrendous
I'm not really clear on why anyone should take writing advice from you. You don't list any writing credentials, and you spend more than half of your video marveling over and explaining how a series could "go beyond" its source material, which thousands of shows have done since film and tv adaptations have been around. It's not a novel or complicated concept. Then you spend about 5 minutes explaining how the writers of multi-billion dollar movies that have been amongst the most popular of all time "don't seem to understand" how to write characterization. You spend less than two minutes actually talking about the contents of GO S2 itself, which was the ostensible subject of your video.