Thank you for this podcast episode. I was married for 8 years to an emotionally abusive man. When I had my bridal shower, I was given a copy of The Power of a Praying Wife by a friend. I was very excited to receive the book because I had heard great things about it. Fast forward 2 years into my marriage and I was experiencing terrible psychological pain at the hands of my husband. My copy of the book was marked up and dog-eared by that time and I couldn't figure out what I was doing wrong. I was following all of the advice in the book and my marriage was a living hell. Eventually, I threw the book in the trash and started researching psychological abuse and found great Christian books on the subject. The book that set me free was: Healing From Hidden Abuse by Shannon Thomas. I divorced my husband five years ago and I've been single and free ever since. Today, life is beautiful! 🙂💜
I was in a relationship with an alcoholic and drug abuser. I went to Al Anon and I just couldn't get any help from it. I, like you, kept wondering what I was doing wrong. We finally broke up and I was she'll shocked. It took me years to heal and feel like myself again. God restored my soul once I got away from him. It took years to heal my mind and nervous system. I stay away from romantic relationships and focus on just living my life.
It wasn't the book, it was the posture of your prayer. Stormie the author of the book clearly states in no way should you stay in an abusive marriage. When praying make sure your heart is in right standing with God first....
Prayer DOES work to change hearts, but ultimately free choice remains. God can soften a heart, reveal truth, and that person STILL choose their own abusive way. Doesn’t mean God didn’t answer those prayers. There are multiple scriptures proving He hears, He moves in response to prayer.
When she wrote her books she said in jer videos that when you feel threaten in you marriage and insecure with your children you have to leave and seek for help.
My daughter and I were just talking about this today! I have always taught my kids-don’t ever feel like you have to stay! My youngest daughter went to a Christian school and in one of her classes her teacher was telling them that there’s no reason for divorce. You should always work it out and never leave your husband. My daughter said, unless there’s cheating or abuse…The teacher challenged her on that mindset. Later my daughter went to her in private and basically told her she disagreed with everything she was teaching and that it’s dangerous to teach young girls this. Not one of the other girls even questioned it! My mother stayed with a verbally abusive and chronic cheater and I’m telling you, she heard EVERYTHING in this book over and over again! Thankfully, she finally has enough and left him! Thank you for this podcast!! Shared with my daughters!
That it’s a joke in their family that HE had 40 wonderful years and hers were miserable is sad. Your wife’s misery should not be a joke. Smacks of minimizing her pain and her personhood to her and to their children. I’m curious what her children would think of their parents marriage if they listened to this video. Hopefully their children didn’t repeat the example because they were desensitized to abuse and taught to tolerate it.
Whilst hoping they are happy and away from the influence of this book and teaching, if any of them ever wrote a critique from their pov I would definitely read it
Yes some may even be brought into agreement with the abuser. My daughter told me that she thought that I was bad, I must be bad as I was always making him yell at me for something that I did. The only thing that kept her from that view is that he began to treat her the very same way.
@@cassandramarks4452 I sometimes wonder if my kids took on his ideas about me, even in a subtle way, because they talk to me in subtle, similar ways at times.
Snake oil = "If you just pray hard enough God's going to do what you're asking for." I had people tell me constantly that I didn't have enough faith, and then when someone believes this snake oil, you have failed, not them! It's unbelievable. It's cruel.
I remember reading that book when it first came out in 1997. I’m positive that her ideas are what led to my bouts with major clinical depression due to an abusive marriage. I believed for so long that yes, I had to shut up and just pray and sacrifice. Now after 36 years, I’m finally setting boundaries and am finally separated. Such bad theology on so many levels!
I’m so sorry. When I think of this horrible book, I remember how Jesus described the scribes and Pharisees In Matthew 23: 4 They tie up heavy, cumbersome loads and put them on other people’s shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them.
With all the stipulations put on women for marriage, I finally came to the conclusion, I AM NOT JESUS CHRIST for my husband. He has to stand before God himself. In the meantime, I'll stood before God before I stood before my ex, and was called rebellious.
Was given this book by my sister, a prayer warrior. I know she meant no harm, but no one knew what was going on in my home. Left that abusive marriage at 24 years. Thank you for addressing this. I, too, prayed for years, for so many things, including for me to not care so much about his treatment towards me. Imagine if God had answered that prayer. I don't believe I would be here today. Keep doing the work you do. It is life saving.
God is infallible but people are not. Stormie is stating it exactly that it is possible. Not probable but possible. God is not a GENIE or a butler who will grant you everything you pray for. If you are a Christian it should be clear to you to what God grants us through prayer is by Grace and Grace alone. We are saved by Grace through Faith in Christ alone. I hope that you have had a turn in your relationship or are in a better, healthier relationship.
Wow. What a great discussion. I am still married but lived in Misery for years. The factor that changed for me, was getting away for a week at a conference. Seeing how nicely I was treated by complete strangers was an eye opener. The person who knows me best and claims to love me treated me like I was lazy, stupid, incompetent, worthless. I began to treat myself like I was valued. I would warn him to stop yelling, or I would remove myself from the situation. Things got worse, of course, because I had begun to change my response. Instead of "shut up and pray" I spoke out about disrespect and refused to stay present for abusive language. I quit hiding my shame and told people about my situation. I wouldn't cover or try to reduce his outbursts but let the consequences be HIS. I had been enabling his tantrums. My sister mentioned he was childish, which pissed me off, because he's a grown man with a great job, a good provider. But I realized she was right: I f any of my children had done these things I would have corrected those behaviors (yelling, sulking, demanding, insults...) "Daddy is yelling at you but you have done nothing wrong. Thats not fair. Come here with me, and wait until dad cools down and can talk nicely." Oh, that made him so mad! But over a few months things got better, because I would not accept anything less than I got from strangers at a conference.
I know (boy do I KNOW) that for many women, this will not work, and it is not possible to stay well. But my situation seems to be similar to yours. So far, enforcing boundaries and making sure that I work on myself every day has at least caused enough of a shift in my marriage that staying in the same house is no pinger overtly miserable. His outward actions, at least, have changed.
I love this so much. I’ve started to put my foot down in a different way somewhat to what you’ve mentioned here. I stopped worrying about what he’s doing outside the home to cope w my progress and just put focus on me and becoming a better boundary setter. Also I still pray a lot. But helping him stop his childish behaviors has certainly helped a lot. There’s so much he did he’d never let our kids get away w. I’m encouraged by your message thank you.
@@gobigandgohomeschool4882I’m in a similar boat friend. So glad to hear it, I agree it won’t help most women. But I feel like people like us have men who had a lot of trauma from childhood and don’t want to be so bad at this any more. It’s a little of who has the most steam still to fight.
Got my coffee and I'm ready for this! I just* threw away my POAPW book while packing to move. It went from the donation box to the trash. Part of me wanted to donate it with corrections and notes all throughout for any woman who is in abuse that reads it! 😂
I started this book. I got 25 pages in. I then came to UA-cam to listen to prayers for my husband. I was led to this podcast. I am so unbelievably grateful God led me to this. I have such a clear understanding that I have been misled by woman of faith. Not intentionally I’m sure. Yet I have been told for 2 years that I am called to suffer. This never sat well in my spirit. The abuse has been getting worse. Most focus on the physical abuse alone. I try to express that my heart is bruised, my mind is bruised, my spirit is bruised. They just can’t see it. Regardless, the focus was always always that God hates divorce. Thank you so much for this podcast. I know the spirit of God led me.
My parents had a miserable marriage. They should never have married each other and they were doomed from the start. They were both abusive - my mother would belittle and insult my father relentlessly, and he would respond by slapping her, making them both abusers and both victims. They fought over everything. Our lives revolved around home, church and school and publicly, we were the perfect family, admired and envied by many. Finally, after 30 years or marriage, they had a massive fight, my father beat my mother, left the house and that was the end of the marriage. Living in that toxic environment was horrible for all of us kids, and though we are all in our 60s and 70s now, all the siblings have varying degrees of emotional and mental health problems. Living with warring parents and being constantly on edge, fearing another fight, feeling loyalty to both parents, feeling like you're a kid, but you have to be a mediator takes a toll. I have so much fear of conflict that it's hard for me to even watch a movie where people might argue, and I know that my parenting suffered from my inability to say no (thank God my kids were all naturally inclined to do the right thing). "God hates divorce" is probably the most misinterpreted and misused verse in the Bible among fundamentalists.
Your experience in childhood is much like mine. My father didn't hit my mom (that I know of), but he sure did hit us kids. Pulling ears, knocking on our heads hard, spanking is and then leaving us in a room to cry for hours with no talk afterwards to explain, no I still love you's, and then in the morning everyone acted like nothing had happened. WTH?! It screwed me up majorly and I was prepped to marry an abuser "Christian" and suffered in hell for 14 years. 😢
@starlingswallow9406 that's so awful. We were very lucky that our parents didn't believe in spanking or hitting kids. And I know what you mean about having no one to talk to. When your family is privately dysfunctional, it can be very isolating. I wish you well.
I'm sure it's true that God hates divorce! Because divorce is horrible. AND being in an abusive marriage is worse, and I'm sure God hates abusive marriages more than good hates divorce.
I was in a marriage for 10 years. A friend told me I needed to ‘claim salvation for my husband’. This is crazy. He was continuously unfaithful to me with several woman, over several years, and became an angry, alcoholic. He even told someone he wanted to know if the Bible gave him a reason to leave me - I could never understand why that would matter to him considering he was cheating on me. Thankfully, my pastors finally told him that they would stand behind me if I chose to leave him if he didn’t make big changes, repent and choose our marriage. I did finally leave. I felt like a failure for a while after that. Thankfully, I no longer do. There is another book that recommends even worse responses to abuse from a husband. It was written by Debi Pearl called Created To Be His Help Meet! She recommends that a wife meet unfaithfulness with sweet, submissive sex when her husband comes home and she will win him back.😱 We need more Christian women to speak out about this.
Just yesterday I pulled this book off my library shelf, it's sat there for years, and prayed the first prayer. I have a good marriage so no harm done. Then the next day this exact video pops up on my feed. I am blown away.... You all shared some excellent insights, thank you. Sarah said that many of these books are written out of a trauma response; I found that sobering.
I love a lot of what John MacArthur teaches, but there is a video of him on UA-cam where he says, Marriage is fun. Why are there so many single people at this church?" But with all the stuff that gets taught about dating, sex and marriage by Christians, is it any wonder that there are so many Christians who drag their feet at the thought of getting married and who don't believe that marriage could be fun.
I believe i was led to this channel divinely. I was just going through a bought of sadness and emptiness in my marriage and was blaming myself. I have the book and was going to reread it but now im going to reread Boundaries in Marriage. Thank you and God bless your work ❤
Sheila thank you for your courage for taking on one of the sacred cows. Thank you Sarah and Gretchen for speaking out against the oppression of women and children. I’m sure the christian elite and the people who don’t have a clue what living with abuse is like will come out on social media with their pitchforks and nasty comments.
No, I was referring to the authors that Sheila, Gretchen, and Sarah were referring to. The authors of the books they were talking about. I stayed in an abusive marriage for far too long because of the books that Sheila mentions in her podcast. They rather have people continuously abused than to divorce. There is generational abuse in my ex husband 's family and that ends with me. I have 3 boys and I left once I realized that they have no idea what a healthy marriage looks like.
@@elleneebarrett5683 I stayed too long in abusive marriage because of that book and a church that would say God didn't hear me because I didn't pray well. So I stay for more then one reason.
I'll state that maybe God did empress those things onto Stormie's heart, maybe He did because he is omniscient and saw that her husbands heart was soft enough for the HS to change him eventually, but that is not the case with every marriage. So, for her to write a book about her personal experience is great! But when you are using the story/God's will/speaking of God for *you* as a formula for others, that's where this gets very dicey. God does know if a spouse is too far gone and if they will change or not, so what He impresses upon you is different for others in many intricate ways. One thing I've realized over my own journey of abuse: Formulas do not gel within a relationship with Jesus! Formulas do "gel" with religion.....but it causes so much destruction and hurt.
I think we are obsessed with formulas in the modern church. Here is how to be a healer, here is how to pray, here is how to parent ect... our Father is a relational God. His character is unchanging but His interaction and counsel to each of us may be vastly different.
My Dad was a saint in public but at home he yelled at his wife and children pretty much every day all day. But he also used to yell at his mum. Because she couldn't speak English, my parents didn't have dates at her house. I don't know when my Dad became a yeller, but I wonder if he would have yelled at his mum while my mum was present while they were still dating, or if he would have hid that until after they got married.
Scripture and prayer is where we go for guidance and advice. Listen to the Lord God and Holy Spirit, no man or woman. Thank you for exposing the danger of seeking guidance outside of the holy Word and Holy Spirit.
God doesn't make puppets out of anyone - addict, alcoholic, sex addict, nonalcoholics, etc. No, prayer is not a manipulation, especially a manipulation of God. Back when I was married to a philandering alcoholic who was becoming more and more abusive, I was told by a very religious 'friend' that if I'd pray and fast, that God would fix my marriage and my husband. I actually prayed and did a water fast with vitamins for 21 days - and it just got worse until we divorced. One of the reasons for the divorce was this 'friend' who was messing around with my husband. But God is faithful and good and has taken good care of me and the kids for the last 30 years.
Wow, I was not expecting that at all. I thought it was about be a good wife, forgive, love your spouse etc but thank you for talking about emotional abuse, mental abuse, narcissism etc
Sounds like this book should be called "how to be a codependent and destroy yourself -god's will for women." I didn't capitalize god on purpose,. Now I know my God does not teach this... I was fed this crap and am now divorced at 39 years of marriage. My doctor told me I was going to die if I stayed. I spent 28 days in the women's shelter. The first church counseling/confrontation ended in "go home and submit" 2 decades later, church counseling/ confrontation ended with, "You guys have been Christians long enough, go home and love each other" and we were shown the door. Not even a call over the next year. It's unbelievable that the church has not learned anything. Out of many churches we have here, only 2 or so sat down to talk to ARMS and carry the material. The rest just refuse. So sad. Thank you for the work you're doing!
New research also shows this causes trauma in children and can cause things like adhd. I had a parent that didn’t leave. I wish she did. Alcoholic dad. Spiritual abuse. Emotional abuse. Financial abuse. There was physical abuse. But we couldn’t tell anyone.
Married 27 years~ praying these prayers as a platform for 20 years. Have also benefited from her books on prayer for children and adult children. Praying God's Word is powerful. If it was good enogh for Jesus, it's good enough for me. Soli deo Gloria!
I didn’t realize she is 80 years old. WOW! She was older than I am now, when I was first told to read her books. A friend gifted me this book nearly 20 years ago- my husband threw it away. He said way back then when he looked at it, it seemed creepy.
Yes, the idol of the 'Biblical marriage', locking people into toxic situations with potentially horrific results, but also the expectation to marry can lead to choices that a longer dating time might not have been made. And being a single adult in a congregation that idolises marriage is to be considered broken.
Yes speaking on anxiety. You can’t pray that away necessarily. I have tried for years and years and honestly being told to pray about it and that if i am not feeling peace after it’s because I don’t have enough faith or praying hard enough. It honestly caused me spiritual damage. I’m on a journey now where I’ve been deconstructing. I’m at the dirt of this deconstruction now and now I’m like floating I’d that makes sense. I got to the point that trying to pray all the time I was getting more anxiety. Now I have a wall to tear down that was put up as a way to protect myself from the stress anxiety I had. I’d love to get to know God again but I know God isn’t who I was taught. And yes I can talk to god about the anxiety but it isn’t necessarily gonna get taken away and maybe I need to get on meds even. 🤷🏻♀️ that’s another thing people against meds for that or have been in past. But I’m learning I can do more and be more free getting away from some of those mindsets.
I have had anxiety and depression since I was a kid.Here are a few things that have helped me. First, here’s my background: The church was was raised in did not teach an assurance of salvation; when, you add that to me being a very sensitive child = bad combination ☹️. I wanted to have a close connection with my mother but she withdrew from me when I got to be a big kid. I didn’t fit in at school. One of the best things that has helped my mental health is getting away from works based living and now living under GRACE. I recommend the UA-cam channel Theocast for good teaching. Another is Nothing is Wasted.
I have adhd and anxiety and when I have to do something that triggers anxiety (like an important phone call or go to an appointment), prayer helps, but it doesn't take away the anxiety. I still have to do the work of being mindful and listening to my body. If I'm pmsing, for example, my adhd and anxiety are worse. I struggle to remember information; so I make sure to write important things down, limit my schedule, and am honest w/ people in my life so they can be patient with me during that time. I do what I can to do stressful things during other times of the month, and i give myself patience and grace when the adhd/anxiety get the upper hand despite my best efforts because i am still human and life still happens. Prayer doesn't magically fix the way my brain works, but is a tool that I use with other tools to keep the adhd and anxiety from taking over. I also take supplements, adjust my diet, and practice self-care. God has provided these things as well. For many people, meds is his answer to dealing with mental health and to not use them is to choose to drown rather than get into the lifeboat because we think God should do something more extraordinary for us. You are not alone, Christians are not exempt from mental health problems like anxiety and it doesn't mean u r a "bad Christian" or anything like that.
Hello Ladies, I am so glad that you are having this conversation!!! I was one of these women that read this book approximately 15 years ago when I was also a new “Christian “ coming from a Catholic denomination. I was married for 30 years and got divorced 4 years ago and actually my ex- husband who was still “Catholic “was the one that blind sided me and asked me for the divorce which I was devastated but now I feel bless because I am free and can continue to work on myself and now follow a true and non judgmental Christian life who also seeked professional counseling to work on my PTSD, trauma and other mental health related problems due to staying in the marriage for this long. Blessings ❤
So to make a point divorce is destructive to marriage it is a proven scientific psychologically. But the amount of abuse is even worse psychologically. Giving children a safe home with one parent and a place of refuge and understanding of boundaries makes a child better in the long run. So it's not a method divorced does damaged children. It's just a matter of how the situation in a whole look like.
This is the kind of book that kept someone I personally know living in the same house with her husband after he brought in another woman. The situation ended very badly and the repercussions are still on going to this day.
I have read all her books and will be celebrating soon 43 years of marriage. We hit a rough patch around year 15 and someone recommended her book. I read it and began praying the Word over my husband. At one point I was going to leave him because I was just fed up with the whole thing. I was going to get up in the morning and instead of driving to work I would drive to a family member in another state. That night in bed, I quietly apologized to God for the breakdown and simply said I don’t love him anymore. Very clearly I heard, “but will you love him for me?” That night, I surrendered to the Lord and said “Yes, I will love him for you.” As I began to pray daily for him, my heart began to change and as my heart changed towards him, his began to change towards me. There was never abuse, physical or mental violence, but probably lots of arguments and tears. Today, we are empty nesters, enjoy each other’s company and serve in ministry at our local church. My takeaway from Stormie was never to put you or your children’s in harms way. She is also divorced so she knows there is a situation that calls for that. My mother was divorced and we know she did that prayerfully and what was right for the family. For me, praying the Word was right and I believe that had I left that day my husband would have left the faith. Every woman needs to have that personal relationship with the Lord and make a decision in obedience to God for their situation. I do not agree with blasting a sister in Christ.
I agree. In some cases there is no premarital counseling. I come from a church where my pastor will blow the horn of warning to any brother or sister who has interest in someone who will be a burden and not be a blessing. I seen him warn and seen those same people not listen….and it didn’t end well. I have seen people take heed to his counseling and have a wondering blessed marriage.
I'm glad that worked for you truly. Understand though that the church has failed at standing between abused women and abusive men with confrontation in love and church discipline layed out in Mathew 18. Women also don't know they are being abused. Because they are taught to be subjugated to a man because of misinterpreted scripture, they think it's normal.
The ladies on this podcast are not bashing the author but they are saying that God made divorce a means of SAFETY from oppression and evil. Have you considered the damage that happens when all abuse victims hear is pressure to stay and pray?? And while they stay and pray, their innocent children grow up with complex-PTSD from the abuse?? What about the kids? They grow up thinking that dysfunction is NORMAL and the cycle REPEATS. Abusive marriages with children in the homes are an affront are SO SO WRONG.
This book is the product of the theology and culture the author absorbed, and that damaged her. But in this book she locks others in the cage too. And celebrates the cage. The meal switching of her husband is simple psychological abuse. 52:36 yes! That is true, she advocates suffering for salvation, instead of Christ And her opening that says your prayers are only going to be answered if you already pledged not to ever leave. Yikes.
I'm somewhat reminded of being raised in a Pentecostal denomination that taught that speaking in tongues was the "initial physical evidence of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit," and that all believers should expect to speak in tongues. The problem with that teaching was that if you never spoke in tongues, then the blame (whether implicitly or explicitly) was placed on your shoulders: You didn’t want it enough, or weren't praying enough, or weren't submitting enough, and that's why the Spirit wasn't pouring into you. This denomination also treated tongues as a tool for personal spiritual development. In the end, my own study of Scripture convinced me that, while these ideas were supported with Scripture, they could not actually be derived from Scripture, and that the teachings of Paul in I Corinthians were actually rebutting similar doctrines that had sprung up in the church at Corinth.
And 3 years after being thrown out physically with threats ro my life...after hanging in for 20 years, hoping and praying for a better relationship with my very discontent, raging, blaming, demeaning, husband...he calls me after 3 years and starts out in a creepy sounding voice attacking at me and just when he escalates into rage, Im realizing he isnt calling to ask MY forgiveness...He is calling to "punish" me again for his miserable self. I had been driven out because I told God Id never run from another marriage. Yes, married before this to abusive man, didnt have a CLUE with this last husband what I was really getting. I was always made to believe its ALL my fault and I failed with God. THANK YOU for opening my understanding and I can say God used you ladies to answer my WHY question for the 100th time. God bless you all and praise God you have a platform to share it. I now understand when you said Good hearted versus the one who isnt acting Good hearted
I would love to hear you ladies discuss the other books you mentioned. After 11 yrs of marriage I had to face up to the fact that I have been in an abusive marriage. I have read a lot of marriage books which I'm realizing are part of why it took me so long to face the truth. I have 4 children that I want to raise properly and offer them a proper perspective on marriage, but I realize that I won't be able to recommend most of the books that shaped me
Thank you for this video. What you all shared is very similar to what I experienced in my 8 year marriage. Finally healing from the abuse with EMDR and understanding scripture better.
What I want to know is if Stormy and he husband ever went to counseling and tried to get help that way. There are practical things God provides to us too, to help us in these situations. The answer isn't JUST to 'pray'. Yes, pray. But to say all we have to do is pray, and to not also seek help in a very serious situation like that is just crazy! Did she tell her husband, look, I'm not divorcing you, but I AM going to take the kids and move somewhere else until YOU get help.
I agree with the overall message, but specifically, @27:50, I would take issue with saying God "limited himself" when creating us with free will, or that he doesn't "change hearts" even though we have the moral responsibility to give our hearts to God. I think the main takeaway is that we cannot change *other* people's hearts and we cannot automatically expect God to do so on our behalf. If you are in an abusive relationship, then take steps to leave or protect yourself and don't let feelings of guilt or failure overwhelm you in the process. God does not tolerate abuse and nor should you.
I am not married, so my perspective might be uninformed. This podcast is extremely helpful because I was taught that women should adopt a sacrificial stance as a wife and are expected to be long suffering. I think it’s important to continue these conversations to educate women that this should never cover abuse in any form nor excuse immoral, criminal or cruel behavior
Love everything Sarah, Gretchen and Sheila have to say on this!! Yes, many of the prayers in the book were well written but the commentary with it was absolutely wrong and the forward was terrible! Little twisting of truth can harm so deeply.
Shouldn’t everyone be able to just read the book for themselves? Why is it necessary to speak all of your thoughts publicly? Stormie Omartian is an inspirational leader and ripping her down is not of God. So you disagree, disagree and move on. Is this the entire intention of this podcast? To read other Christian’s books and put in two cents? One of hosts of this podcast saying “you should never shut the door on divorce,” that isn’t Biblical, that is of the enemy. And yes divorce happens, but sometimes prayer does transform people and relationships. I urge you all as sisters in Christ to ask God to guide you in what you place out into the internet. Once it’s published it’s out there, please stop tearing down other Christians. There’s enough of that all over the world. God bless you all.
I started listening hoping for constructive criticism. Unfortunately it's just criticism. I would think that if someone is concerned that this book is harmful they would get straight to the point and say why. It's also up to each individual to seek God's truth in His Word and by Holy Spirits guidance. The only word you should ever take as gospel, is the gospel. It is up to each of us to check with holy spirit in what we read or hear.
The fact that the author of The Power of Prayer said that her husband's anger was only directed at her and her kids tells me it wasnt "uncontrollable." If he was able to behave appropriately around others and keep his temper in check in places where his temper would get him in trouble or cost him job opportunities/friends ect. This means that his behavior was a choice.
“Nowhere in the Bible does it say that divorce is a sin.” ? -“And he saith unto them, Whosoever shall put away his wife, and marry another, committeth adultery against her. And if a woman shall put away her husband, and be married to another, she committeth adultery.” (Mark 10:11-12) “Whosoever putteth away his wife, and marrieth another, committeth adultery: and whosoever marrieth her that is put away from her husband committeth adultery.” (Luke 16:18) There are more. Why does separation mean I should marry someone else? Separation should be a call to celibacy.
So, if you pray and pray and pray and your husband doesn’t stop his toxic behavior, then it’s YOUR fault because you haven’t prayed aright. What needless shame heaped upon your head in addition to a horrible situation!
I agree with this discussion to a point but I have to say it's not for us to disagree with someone else's testimony/God experience. The author wrote from her experience and how God interacted with her. Since God instructed her to stay who are we do discredit her obedience? Hosea was married to a prostitute who kept running away but God kept telling him to go back for her, I'm sure his generation thought him to be crazy or weak but he was obedient. The book was written from her experience to provide principles and to highlight how God used her prayers, but wisdom should dictate that each person analyze their own situation and act accordingly. The book becomes harmful if a reader blindly does what she says, using prayer as a magic wand to fix their situation without asking God for wisdom to know how he wants to direct that individual's path.
The one good thing about the book For Women Only is that the author admits that if you tell a man you don't want to kiss until your wedding day, he will lose interest and find a woman who will kiss him.
@@politereminder6284 It's good because she was honest about something. Purity Culture taught not to kiss until your wedding day. It taught that men were dying for us to dress "modestly" but if you tell a man you don't want to kiss him until the wedding day or wear the clothes purity culture told us men were dying for us to wear, men, even genuine Christian men, lost interest. That's why many of us were completely flabbergasted when we saw the Duggar sisters getting married. Because although they weren't kissing and were wearing the modesty clothing, they found men who stuck around until the wedding day. The Duggar sisters didn't miss out on having children but we did. Purity Culture taught that your personality should rise above your clothing, so everyone who couldn't get a man to stick around, realised that their personality must be pretty bland and that the Duggar sisters must have super-sonic ones. That's a kick in the guts.
Besides other abuse, we didn't even have sex. He lost interest 14 years into the marriage while in his mid 30's (it was agonizing for me and I felt cheated because I had no outlet) and I spent another 21 years of misery before I finally left as an option to suicide.
My mother in law believes the only thing she can do it pray that her abusive husband changes. She’s had her whole church come down on her from pushing back a little bit. Now she doesn’t even try to see the truth. How can we help her?
*shrug* you can still separate and should if unsafe. And obviously there’s are a small percentage of people who are in actually life or death situations and that’s clearly not what this book is addressing. It’s addressing a general population. But divorce is not an option. Get it out of your head. Both husband and wife of you. Then the real marriage begins. You know you both are stuck w no other options but to focus and figure life out. It is good to hear another side to this argument though from you ladies.
My Dad yelled at my mum and us pretty much every day every time he saw us for decades. It had a terrible effect on my mum and on me. It's a big reason for why I have never married or had children but I'm glad my mum didn't divorce my Dad. A divorce would have crippled me and if my mum had remarried, living in a house with a new man that I'm not related to would have been really awkward and unpleasant. My Dad now has a goitre in his throat. It stops him from being able to yell.
Interestingly , I’ve heard so many children who grew up in abusive households that they wish their parents divorced. The objective to leaving for some is to live in an environment with peace. In addition, i saw a post where several children spoke of how much their lives changed for the better when their mother remarried a safe man. I think it might have been on Sheila’s page that I read all the positive stories.
Part of the fear of divorce and the stigma, especially in evangelical circles is because marriage has been idolised above justice and safety. None of us can know how life would have worked out if something was done differently at any point. In wider society divorce is a challenge for children, but rarely crippling, and yes stepparents can be a minefield, whether after divorce or death of a partner. In evangelical circles the culture around you as a adult or child is so aggressive against divorce that they make it crippling, not the separation itself. Sad that your dad needed a voice limiting illness to not yell at your mum. She had a right to not spend most of her life under that abuse. It is not just that we might be uncomfortable or worried as children about an unknown, but that she has rights to safety and respect for herself.
God gives people freewill, and at the same time God controls people. Proverbs 16:9 “A man's heart deviseth his way: but the LORD directeth his steps.” And “…work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. For it is God which worketh in you…” (Philippians 2:12b-13a) So, people have freewill, but not totally.
Thats not what she says in the book you have decided to interpret it they way you feel because you are bitter for your loss and another is happy and still married. Your loss
It worked for her and it can walk for others in thier case. If it fid not walk for you and you guys had to devors then take it down on jer book she did what she did and it worked. And sorry ladies her kids are happy thier fsther has changed and they jave them both together. Divorce does harm to they children aswell so sorry ladies.
I think it was God who told me to divorce. When I was planning my suicide, a voice came into my head which said "divorce is better than suicide!. After I signed the papers, I had a joy and peace I had not experienced in decades.
Rom 7:2 1Cor 7:39 1 Corinthians 7:11 “But and if she depart, let her remain unmarried, or be reconciled to her husband:…” I am simply finding Bible to help me avoid getting married to someone else. “Everyone” at church says I should date. But separation does not require a new romance.
how do we know that she "could have left"? Some women do not have financial resources to leave. Only when my mom said she would be giving us some early inheritance did I decide to leave.
Lots of men just don’t have any fear in a marriage. All the support structures are on their side. I have sometimes quipped that each church should have a gang of bodyguards who can come in and beat an abusive husband until he gets it, and repents. Of course this is not an incitement to anything, but the fear of the Lord is really absent. Proverbs 1:7
Abuse, infidelity, alcoholism, etc can be destroyed through prayer if its in Gods will. Our job is to pray from a right posture and heart..the power of prayer is real but ultimately its Gods will..Stormie never says that those prayers will 100% work and she clearly doesnt condone abuse in marriage. Our job as wives is to pray and trust God but most of all trist His will. I think you ladies dont have a clear understanding of what she was intending this book to be. I know for me it saved my marriage.. then again both my husband are Christians and that makes a difference... if you are unequally yoked then you need to start there... being yoked. Sometimes we pray selfishly as Stormie stated or dont understand God's will then get disappointed when their prayers aren't answered. Its evident where your walk is...
I changed my ways in my marriage and that also changed my husband ways towards me and prayers help aswell. So if it did not work for you then sorry, you were just is wrong marriages pray for God to help you.
This lady needs to ask God for an accurate understanding of blasphemy. That is quite an accusation against the author in reference. God actually does say, “NOTHING shall be impossible” for those that believe. I think she does not know God or understand His power as well as the author she is speaking against.
God doesnt like divorce is the verse abusers use.!! I am divorced so please ladies live the toxic relationship..God wants us to live in peace in a marriage 1Corinthians 7vs 15.. and 2Timothy 3vs 1-5..God says thru Apostle Paul that you should stay AWAY from people like that mentioned in this scripture..You stay in an unhealthy marriage praying that it will may be work out ,i tell you,you will die without fulfiling what God created you to do..God bless marriages that are bringing glory to your name. Amen🙏
I read the book years ago. I don’t remember the end. Didn’t her husband change? I took his statement , in the forward I believe, to mean that he recognized he was fine all those years and she wasn’t. A good observation. I like this video but I’m not sure they have what he said in context.
Jer_3:8 And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also.
Was Ms Stormy invited to share her side of all this....to rebut? I wonder if she has changed her stance on any of this? This was super eye opening! Tfs
I think her side was all in the book! Also, she's been contacted by so many people over the years about how her book enabled abuse. That's why she put Day 30 in the 2014 edition, but she never fixed the other days. It's a big problem.
This is a strange comment. When a person becomes an author their literary work will be subject to critique. This is especially true for a book that impacted the lives of vulnerable people. Sheila is not hosting this conversation just to roast Stormie; Sheila wants to bring light to the women who were HURT by her misogynistic teachings.
It is not a Bible study. Get the group of ladies together with Bibles and no other books. Like Bible Study Fellowship. Or maybe just also a concordance.
I’ve noticed a phenomenon with nasty commenters. They watch the video. Then they read through the comment section. But they don’t write their own comment. They see a comment that has overwhelming support, hundreds of LIKES 👍🏼; then they make a ridiculous rebuttal. Example- I watched several UA-cam videos accounts of the Gabby Petito and Brian L DV incident in Moab Utah (before Gabby went missing). The comment sections on these videos were shocking 😳. The majority of the comments were supportive towards Gabby. But the comments that suggested Brian was the victim were 1) all men (that I read) and 2) all responding to other commenters; these dudes did not wrote out their own independent thoughts (which were proved to be wrong considering Brian confessed to murdering Gabby 😭)I’m not an experienced social media user… is this what a troll 😈 is?
Thank you for this podcast episode. I was married for 8 years to an emotionally abusive man. When I had my bridal shower, I was given a copy of The Power of a Praying Wife by a friend. I was very excited to receive the book because I had heard great things about it. Fast forward 2 years into my marriage and I was experiencing terrible psychological pain at the hands of my husband. My copy of the book was marked up and dog-eared by that time and I couldn't figure out what I was doing wrong. I was following all of the advice in the book and my marriage was a living hell. Eventually, I threw the book in the trash and started researching psychological abuse and found great Christian books on the subject. The book that set me free was: Healing From Hidden Abuse by Shannon Thomas. I divorced my husband five years ago and I've been single and free ever since. Today, life is beautiful! 🙂💜
I was in a relationship with an alcoholic and drug abuser. I went to Al Anon and I just couldn't get any help from it. I, like you, kept wondering what I was doing wrong. We finally broke up and I was she'll shocked. It took me years to heal and feel like myself again. God restored my soul once I got away from him. It took years to heal my mind and nervous system. I stay away from romantic relationships and focus on just living my life.
Dr. David Clarke has many books that address tough marriage issues and are very helpful
can you share your resources?
Looks like it's free on Audible
It wasn't the book, it was the posture of your prayer. Stormie the author of the book clearly states in no way should you stay in an abusive marriage. When praying make sure your heart is in right standing with God first....
Prayer DOES work to change hearts, but ultimately free choice remains. God can soften a heart, reveal truth, and that person STILL choose their own abusive way. Doesn’t mean God didn’t answer those prayers. There are multiple scriptures proving He hears, He moves in response to prayer.
When she wrote her books she said in jer videos that when you feel threaten in you marriage and insecure with your children you have to leave and seek for help.
My daughter and I were just talking about this today! I have always taught my kids-don’t ever feel like you have to stay! My youngest daughter went to a Christian school and in one of her classes her teacher was telling them that there’s no reason for divorce. You should always work it out and never leave your husband. My daughter said, unless there’s cheating or abuse…The teacher challenged her on that mindset. Later my daughter went to her in private and basically told her she disagreed with everything she was teaching and that it’s dangerous to teach young girls this. Not one of the other girls even questioned it! My mother stayed with a verbally abusive and chronic cheater and I’m telling you, she heard EVERYTHING in this book over and over again! Thankfully, she finally has enough and left him! Thank you for this podcast!! Shared with my daughters!
That it’s a joke in their family that HE had 40 wonderful years and hers were miserable is sad. Your wife’s misery should not be a joke. Smacks of minimizing her pain and her personhood to her and to their children. I’m curious what her children would think of their parents marriage if they listened to this video. Hopefully their children didn’t repeat the example because they were desensitized to abuse and taught to tolerate it.
Whilst hoping they are happy and away from the influence of this book and teaching, if any of them ever wrote a critique from their pov I would definitely read it
Yes some may even be brought into agreement with the abuser. My daughter told me that she thought that I was bad, I must be bad as I was always making him yell at me for something that I did. The only thing that kept her from that view is that he began to treat her the very same way.
@@cassandramarks4452 I sometimes wonder if my kids took on his ideas about me, even in a subtle way, because they talk to me in subtle, similar ways at times.
Snake oil = "If you just pray hard enough God's going to do what you're asking for." I had people tell me constantly that I didn't have enough faith, and then when someone believes this snake oil, you have failed, not them! It's unbelievable. It's cruel.
I remember reading that book when it first came out in 1997. I’m positive that her ideas are what led to my bouts with major clinical depression due to an abusive marriage. I believed for so long that yes, I had to shut up and just pray and sacrifice. Now after 36 years, I’m finally setting boundaries and am finally separated. Such bad theology on so many levels!
I’m so sorry. When I think of this horrible book, I remember how Jesus described the scribes and Pharisees In Matthew 23: 4 They tie up heavy, cumbersome loads and put them on other people’s shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them.
This so resonates with me
I read it back then around 1999-2004 too hoping it would help me stop my husband yelling at me.
B S
With all the stipulations put on women for marriage, I finally came to the conclusion, I AM NOT JESUS CHRIST for my husband. He has to stand before God himself. In the meantime, I'll stood before God before I stood before my ex, and was called rebellious.
Was given this book by my sister, a prayer warrior. I know she meant no harm, but no one knew what was going on in my home. Left that abusive marriage at 24 years. Thank you for addressing this. I, too, prayed for years, for so many things, including for me to not care so much about his treatment towards me. Imagine if God had answered that prayer. I don't believe I would be here today. Keep doing the work you do. It is life saving.
God is infallible but people are not. Stormie is stating it exactly that it is possible. Not probable but possible. God is not a GENIE or a butler who will grant you everything you pray for. If you are a Christian it should be clear to you to what God grants us through prayer is by Grace and Grace alone. We are saved by Grace through Faith in Christ alone. I hope that you have had a turn in your relationship or are in a better, healthier relationship.
@@liezlsmal9151 so how long do you wait for "grace" to happen??????
Wow. What a great discussion. I am still married but lived in Misery for years. The factor that changed for me, was getting away for a week at a conference. Seeing how nicely I was treated by complete strangers was an eye opener. The person who knows me best and claims to love me treated me like I was lazy, stupid, incompetent, worthless. I began to treat myself like I was valued. I would warn him to stop yelling, or I would remove myself from the situation. Things got worse, of course, because I had begun to change my response. Instead of "shut up and pray" I spoke out about disrespect and refused to stay present for abusive language. I quit hiding my shame and told people about my situation. I wouldn't cover or try to reduce his outbursts but let the consequences be HIS. I had been enabling his tantrums. My sister mentioned he was childish, which pissed me off, because he's a grown man with a great job, a good provider. But I realized she was right: I f any of my children had done these things I would have corrected those behaviors (yelling, sulking, demanding, insults...)
"Daddy is yelling at you but you have done nothing wrong. Thats not fair. Come here with me, and wait until dad cools down and can talk nicely." Oh, that made him so mad! But over a few months things got better, because I would not accept anything less than I got from strangers at a conference.
How does he treat you now?
@@jefdby I am now treated very, very well. With respect.
I know (boy do I KNOW) that for many women, this will not work, and it is not possible to stay well. But my situation seems to be similar to yours. So far, enforcing boundaries and making sure that I work on myself every day has at least caused enough of a shift in my marriage that staying in the same house is no pinger overtly miserable. His outward actions, at least, have changed.
I love this so much.
I’ve started to put my foot down in a different way somewhat to what you’ve mentioned here.
I stopped worrying about what he’s doing outside the home to cope w my progress and just put focus on me and becoming a better boundary setter. Also I still pray a lot.
But helping him stop his childish behaviors has certainly helped a lot.
There’s so much he did he’d never let our kids get away w.
I’m encouraged by your message thank you.
@@gobigandgohomeschool4882I’m in a similar boat friend. So glad to hear it, I agree it won’t help most women. But I feel like people like us have men who had a lot of trauma from childhood and don’t want to be so bad at this any more. It’s a little of who has the most steam still to fight.
Got my coffee and I'm ready for this! I just* threw away my POAPW book while packing to move. It went from the donation box to the trash.
Part of me wanted to donate it with corrections and notes all throughout for any woman who is in abuse that reads it! 😂
I’m glad you moved it from into trash 🗑️. That book puts so much condemnation on wives
Lj
As someone moving house I too found books I could not in conscience donate for others to find
I put ⚠️ ☢️☣️ warning stickers on the toxic books I kept.
I intend to do this with a number of books.
I started this book. I got 25 pages in. I then came to UA-cam to listen to prayers for my husband. I was led to this podcast. I am so unbelievably grateful God led me to this. I have such a clear understanding that I have been misled by woman of faith. Not intentionally I’m sure. Yet I have been told for 2 years that I am called to suffer. This never sat well in my spirit. The abuse has been getting worse. Most focus on the physical abuse alone. I try to express that my heart is bruised, my mind is bruised, my spirit is bruised. They just can’t see it. Regardless, the focus was always always that God hates divorce. Thank you so much for this podcast. I know the spirit of God led me.
I'm so glad you found this! i hope you get to safety. Take care of yourself.
My parents had a miserable marriage. They should never have married each other and they were doomed from the start. They were both abusive - my mother would belittle and insult my father relentlessly, and he would respond by slapping her, making them both abusers and both victims. They fought over everything. Our lives revolved around home, church and school and publicly, we were the perfect family, admired and envied by many. Finally, after 30 years or marriage, they had a massive fight, my father beat my mother, left the house and that was the end of the marriage. Living in that toxic environment was horrible for all of us kids, and though we are all in our 60s and 70s now, all the siblings have varying degrees of emotional and mental health problems. Living with warring parents and being constantly on edge, fearing another fight, feeling loyalty to both parents, feeling like you're a kid, but you have to be a mediator takes a toll. I have so much fear of conflict that it's hard for me to even watch a movie where people might argue, and I know that my parenting suffered from my inability to say no (thank God my kids were all naturally inclined to do the right thing). "God hates divorce" is probably the most misinterpreted and misused verse in the Bible among fundamentalists.
Your experience in childhood is much like mine. My father didn't hit my mom (that I know of), but he sure did hit us kids. Pulling ears, knocking on our heads hard, spanking is and then leaving us in a room to cry for hours with no talk afterwards to explain, no I still love you's, and then in the morning everyone acted like nothing had happened. WTH?!
It screwed me up majorly and I was prepped to marry an abuser "Christian" and suffered in hell for 14 years.
😢
@starlingswallow9406 that's so awful. We were very lucky that our parents didn't believe in spanking or hitting kids. And I know what you mean about having no one to talk to. When your family is privately dysfunctional, it can be very isolating. I wish you well.
I’m so so sorry
Powerful testimony and I’m sorry this happened in your family.
I'm sure it's true that God hates divorce! Because divorce is horrible. AND being in an abusive marriage is worse, and I'm sure God hates abusive marriages more than good hates divorce.
I was in a marriage for 10 years. A friend told me I needed to ‘claim salvation for my husband’. This is crazy. He was continuously unfaithful to me with several woman, over several years, and became an angry, alcoholic. He even told someone he wanted to know if the Bible gave him a reason to leave me - I could never understand why that would matter to him considering he was cheating on me. Thankfully, my pastors finally told him that they would stand behind me if I chose to leave him if he didn’t make big changes, repent and choose our marriage. I did finally leave. I felt like a failure for a while after that. Thankfully, I no longer do. There is another book that recommends even worse responses to abuse from a husband. It was written by Debi Pearl called Created To Be His Help Meet! She recommends that a wife meet unfaithfulness with sweet, submissive sex when her husband comes home and she will win him back.😱 We need more Christian women to speak out about this.
She got wealthy over this false teaching. Many women were harmed in the making of her wealth. Both really get my goat.
Just yesterday I pulled this book off my library shelf, it's sat there for years, and prayed the first prayer. I have a good marriage so no harm done. Then the next day this exact video pops up on my feed. I am blown away.... You all shared some excellent insights, thank you. Sarah said that many of these books are written out of a trauma response; I found that sobering.
I used this book too. But was miserable. I divorced after putting up with his nonsense for 11 years. Now I am free and I chucked the book away
I love a lot of what John MacArthur teaches, but there is a video of him on UA-cam where he says, Marriage is fun. Why are there so many single people at this church?" But with all the stuff that gets taught about dating, sex and marriage by Christians, is it any wonder that there are so many Christians who drag their feet at the thought of getting married and who don't believe that marriage could be fun.
I believe i was led to this channel divinely. I was just going through a bought of sadness and emptiness in my marriage and was blaming myself. I have the book and was going to reread it but now im going to reread Boundaries in Marriage. Thank you and God bless your work ❤
I encourage you to still pray. There is power in prayer.
I also highly recommend Leslie Vernick's resources. This will get better as YOU get stronger.
Other good books are Mending the Soul by Stephen Tracy and Why Does He Do That by Lundy Bandcroft
Sheila thank you for your courage for taking on one of the sacred cows. Thank you Sarah and Gretchen for speaking out against the oppression of women and children.
I’m sure the christian elite and the people who don’t have a clue what living with abuse is like will come out on social media with their pitchforks and nasty comments.
These authors don't want the legacy of divorce, but they are teaching the legacy of abuse, which is far worse.
🔥🔥
Would you like to elaborate? It sounds like you're upset that they are bringing abuse in Christian homes to light?
No, I was referring to the authors that Sheila, Gretchen, and Sarah were referring to. The authors of the books they were talking about. I stayed in an abusive marriage for far too long because of the books that Sheila mentions in her podcast. They rather have people continuously abused than to divorce. There is generational abuse in my ex husband 's family and that ends with me. I have 3 boys and I left once I realized that they have no idea what a healthy marriage looks like.
1 in three marriages have abuse. That in the church.
@@elleneebarrett5683 I stayed too long in abusive marriage because of that book and a church that would say God didn't hear me because I didn't pray well. So I stay for more then one reason.
I'll state that maybe God did empress those things onto Stormie's heart, maybe He did because he is omniscient and saw that her husbands heart was soft enough for the HS to change him eventually, but that is not the case with every marriage. So, for her to write a book about her personal experience is great! But when you are using the story/God's will/speaking of God for *you* as a formula for others, that's where this gets very dicey.
God does know if a spouse is too far gone and if they will change or not, so what He impresses upon you is different for others in many intricate ways.
One thing I've realized over my own journey of abuse: Formulas do not gel within a relationship with Jesus! Formulas do "gel" with religion.....but it causes so much destruction and hurt.
This is very well put! Humans are so complex. Life is not one size fits all.
I think we are obsessed with formulas in the modern church. Here is how to be a healer, here is how to pray, here is how to parent ect... our Father is a relational God. His character is unchanging but His interaction and counsel to each of us may be vastly different.
Did he change though? I don't remember anything about him changing?
For sure! Testimonies like Stormie’s are DEscriptive, not PREscriptivr
My Dad was a saint in public but at home he yelled at his wife and children pretty much every day all day. But he also used to yell at his mum. Because she couldn't speak English, my parents didn't have dates at her house. I don't know when my Dad became a yeller, but I wonder if he would have yelled at his mum while my mum was present while they were still dating, or if he would have hid that until after they got married.
Scripture and prayer is where we go for guidance and advice. Listen to the Lord God and Holy Spirit, no man or woman. Thank you for exposing the danger of seeking guidance outside of the holy Word and Holy Spirit.
It’s a known fact that we are attracted to people who are the “familiar.” I believe she grew up in abuse -so there’s that.
God doesn't make puppets out of anyone - addict, alcoholic, sex addict, nonalcoholics, etc. No, prayer is not a manipulation, especially a manipulation of God. Back when I was married to a philandering alcoholic who was becoming more and more abusive, I was told by a very religious 'friend' that if I'd pray and fast, that God would fix my marriage and my husband. I actually prayed and did a water fast with vitamins for 21 days - and it just got worse until we divorced. One of the reasons for the divorce was this 'friend' who was messing around with my husband. But God is faithful and good and has taken good care of me and the kids for the last 30 years.
Wow, I was not expecting that at all. I thought it was about be a good wife, forgive, love your spouse etc but thank you for talking about emotional abuse, mental abuse, narcissism etc
Sounds like this book should be called "how to be a codependent and destroy yourself -god's will for women." I didn't capitalize god on purpose,. Now I know my God does not teach this... I was fed this crap and am now divorced at 39 years of marriage. My doctor told me I was going to die if I stayed. I spent 28 days in the women's shelter. The first church counseling/confrontation ended in "go home and submit" 2 decades later, church counseling/ confrontation ended with, "You guys have been Christians long enough, go home and love each other" and we were shown the door. Not even a call over the next year. It's unbelievable that the church has not learned anything. Out of many churches we have here, only 2 or so sat down to talk to ARMS and carry the material. The rest just refuse. So sad. Thank you for the work you're doing!
New research also shows this causes trauma in children and can cause things like adhd.
I had a parent that didn’t leave. I wish she did. Alcoholic dad. Spiritual abuse. Emotional abuse. Financial abuse. There was physical abuse. But we couldn’t tell anyone.
would you explain more about kids adhd, please?
Research done by who??
Married 27 years~ praying these prayers as a platform for 20 years. Have also benefited from her books on prayer for children and adult children.
Praying God's Word is powerful.
If it was good enogh for Jesus, it's good enough for me.
Soli deo Gloria!
What you even listen to the video?
Huh?
Jesus was neither married nor a woman!
I didn’t realize she is 80 years old. WOW! She was older than I am now, when I was first told to read her books.
A friend gifted me this book nearly 20 years ago- my husband threw it away. He said way back then when he looked at it, it seemed creepy.
You don’t even need to divorce. You can leave. There is an idol of marriage… being a religious good Christian. I get prosperity gospel here.
Yes, the idol of the 'Biblical marriage', locking people into toxic situations with potentially horrific results, but also the expectation to marry can lead to choices that a longer dating time might not have been made. And being a single adult in a congregation that idolises marriage is to be considered broken.
amen Marriage Idolatry
Yes speaking on anxiety. You can’t pray that away necessarily. I have tried for years and years and honestly being told to pray about it and that if i am not feeling peace after it’s because I don’t have enough faith or praying hard enough. It honestly caused me spiritual damage. I’m on a journey now where I’ve been deconstructing. I’m at the dirt of this deconstruction now and now I’m like floating I’d that makes sense. I got to the point that trying to pray all the time I was getting more anxiety. Now I have a wall to tear down that was put up as a way to protect myself from the stress anxiety I had. I’d love to get to know God again but I know God isn’t who I was taught. And yes I can talk to god about the anxiety but it isn’t necessarily gonna get taken away and maybe I need to get on meds even. 🤷🏻♀️ that’s another thing people against meds for that or have been in past. But I’m learning I can do more and be more free getting away from some of those mindsets.
I have had anxiety and depression since I was a kid.Here are a few things that have helped me. First, here’s my background: The church was was raised in did not teach an assurance of salvation; when, you add that to me being a very sensitive child = bad combination ☹️. I wanted to have a close connection with my mother but she withdrew from me when I got to be a big kid. I didn’t fit in at school. One of the best things that has helped my mental health is getting away from works based living and now living under GRACE. I recommend the UA-cam channel Theocast for good teaching. Another is Nothing is Wasted.
I have adhd and anxiety and when I have to do something that triggers anxiety (like an important phone call or go to an appointment), prayer helps, but it doesn't take away the anxiety. I still have to do the work of being mindful and listening to my body. If I'm pmsing, for example, my adhd and anxiety are worse. I struggle to remember information; so I make sure to write important things down, limit my schedule, and am honest w/ people in my life so they can be patient with me during that time. I do what I can to do stressful things during other times of the month, and i give myself patience and grace when the adhd/anxiety get the upper hand despite my best efforts because i am still human and life still happens. Prayer doesn't magically fix the way my brain works, but is a tool that I use with other tools to keep the adhd and anxiety from taking over. I also take supplements, adjust my diet, and practice self-care. God has provided these things as well. For many people, meds is his answer to dealing with mental health and to not use them is to choose to drown rather than get into the lifeboat because we think God should do something more extraordinary for us. You are not alone, Christians are not exempt from mental health problems like anxiety and it doesn't mean u r a "bad Christian" or anything like that.
Just found you. It is great to hear people of faith calling out bad, dangerous teaching in our churches/culture
All of the “requirements “ of the wife are a call back to “The Total Woman “ by Marabel Morgan
Hello Ladies, I am so glad that you are having this conversation!!! I was one of these women that read this book approximately 15 years ago when I was also a new “Christian “ coming from a Catholic denomination. I was married for 30 years and got divorced 4 years ago and actually my ex- husband who was still “Catholic “was the one that blind sided me and asked me for the divorce which I was devastated but now I feel bless because I am free and can continue to work on myself and now follow a true and non judgmental Christian life who also seeked professional counseling to work on my PTSD, trauma and other mental health related problems due to staying in the marriage for this long. Blessings ❤
So proud of you sis! 🙏🏾💪🏾💙
Threw this book out after I got to the chapter prayer about submission and sex. Made me so angry!
But it works both ways. Not just for wife but also for the husband.
it is, but that is not how the author implied it. @@michelleennis8195
So to make a point divorce is destructive to marriage it is a proven scientific psychologically. But the amount of abuse is even worse psychologically. Giving children a safe home with one parent and a place of refuge and understanding of boundaries makes a child better in the long run. So it's not a method divorced does damaged children. It's just a matter of how the situation in a whole look like.
This was a phenomenal discussion! I loved listening to every moment. Thank you so much for sharing!
This is the kind of book that kept someone I personally know living in the same house with her husband after he brought in another woman. The situation ended very badly and the repercussions are still on going to this day.
😱🙅🙅🙅
Thank you so much for this! I had so much shame for not “praying” the way I thought I was supposed to according to Stormy.
And people wonder why Anna Duggar stands by Josh.
Exactly, this and with IBLP even more so.
@@helenr4300what's that?
Wow. I am so impressed with the candid truth here, Godly biblical truth. Thank you.
Ugh, I am so sick of any "prayer" book that sets forth a formula for success.
Yes, my pastor refused to answer me when i asked if i could leave. My spouse broke me to the core. Marriage should not be an idol.
Thank you for contributing to stopping the legacy of abuse.
I have read all her books and will be celebrating soon 43 years of marriage. We hit a rough patch around year 15 and someone recommended her book. I read it and began praying the Word over my husband. At one point I was going to leave him because I was just fed up with the whole thing. I was going to get up in the morning and instead of driving to work I would drive to a family member in another state. That night in bed, I quietly apologized to God for the breakdown and simply said I don’t love him anymore. Very clearly I heard, “but will you love him for me?” That night, I surrendered to the Lord and said “Yes, I will love him for you.” As I began to pray daily for him, my heart began to change and as my heart changed towards him, his began to change towards me. There was never abuse, physical or mental violence, but probably lots of arguments and tears. Today, we are empty nesters, enjoy each other’s company and serve in ministry at our local church. My takeaway from Stormie was never to put you or your children’s in harms way. She is also divorced so she knows there is a situation that calls for that. My mother was divorced and we know she did that prayerfully and what was right for the family. For me, praying the Word was right and I believe that had I left that day my husband would have left the faith. Every woman needs to have that personal relationship with the Lord and make a decision in obedience to God for their situation. I do not agree with blasting a sister in Christ.
I agree. In some cases there is no premarital counseling. I come from a church where my pastor will blow the horn of warning to any brother or sister who has interest in someone who will be a burden and not be a blessing. I seen him warn and seen those same people not listen….and it didn’t end well. I have seen people take heed to his counseling and have a wondering blessed marriage.
I'm glad that worked for you truly. Understand though that the church has failed at standing between abused women and abusive men with confrontation in love and church discipline layed out in Mathew 18. Women also don't know they are being abused. Because they are taught to be subjugated to a man because of misinterpreted scripture, they think it's normal.
The ladies on this podcast are not bashing the author but they are saying that God made divorce a means of SAFETY from oppression and evil. Have you considered the damage that happens when all abuse victims hear is pressure to stay and pray?? And while they stay and pray, their innocent children grow up with complex-PTSD from the abuse?? What about the kids? They grow up thinking that dysfunction is NORMAL and the cycle REPEATS. Abusive marriages with children in the homes are an affront are SO SO WRONG.
Thanks so much for this! I love your content! It has helped me get on the road to healing. God bless!
This book is the product of the theology and culture the author absorbed, and that damaged her. But in this book she locks others in the cage too. And celebrates the cage.
The meal switching of her husband is simple psychological abuse.
52:36 yes! That is true, she advocates suffering for salvation, instead of Christ
And her opening that says your prayers are only going to be answered if you already pledged not to ever leave. Yikes.
I'm somewhat reminded of being raised in a Pentecostal denomination that taught that speaking in tongues was the "initial physical evidence of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit," and that all believers should expect to speak in tongues. The problem with that teaching was that if you never spoke in tongues, then the blame (whether implicitly or explicitly) was placed on your shoulders: You didn’t want it enough, or weren't praying enough, or weren't submitting enough, and that's why the Spirit wasn't pouring into you. This denomination also treated tongues as a tool for personal spiritual development. In the end, my own study of Scripture convinced me that, while these ideas were supported with Scripture, they could not actually be derived from Scripture, and that the teachings of Paul in I Corinthians were actually rebutting similar doctrines that had sprung up in the church at Corinth.
And 3 years after being thrown out physically with threats ro my life...after hanging in for 20 years, hoping and praying for a better relationship with my very discontent, raging, blaming, demeaning, husband...he calls me after 3 years and starts out in a creepy sounding voice attacking at me and just when he escalates into rage, Im realizing he isnt calling to ask MY forgiveness...He is calling to "punish" me again for his miserable self. I had been driven out because I told God Id never run from another marriage. Yes, married before this to abusive man, didnt have a CLUE with this last husband what I was really getting.
I was always made to believe its ALL my fault and I failed with God.
THANK YOU for opening my understanding and I can say God used you ladies to answer my WHY question for the 100th time. God bless you all and praise God you have a platform to share it.
I now understand when you said Good hearted versus the one who isnt acting Good hearted
It was not your fault
This was a great discussion. Thanks so much.
I would love to hear you ladies discuss the other books you mentioned. After 11 yrs of marriage I had to face up to the fact that I have been in an abusive marriage. I have read a lot of marriage books which I'm realizing are part of why it took me so long to face the truth.
I have 4 children that I want to raise properly and offer them a proper perspective on marriage, but I realize that I won't be able to recommend most of the books that shaped me
Thank you for this video. What you all shared is very similar to what I experienced in my 8 year marriage. Finally healing from the abuse with EMDR and understanding scripture better.
Thank you for this 🙏
What I want to know is if Stormy and he husband ever went to counseling and tried to get help that way. There are practical things God provides to us too, to help us in these situations. The answer isn't JUST to 'pray'. Yes, pray. But to say all we have to do is pray, and to not also seek help in a very serious situation like that is just crazy! Did she tell her husband, look, I'm not divorcing you, but I AM going to take the kids and move somewhere else until YOU get help.
I agree with the overall message, but specifically, @27:50, I would take issue with saying God "limited himself" when creating us with free will, or that he doesn't "change hearts" even though we have the moral responsibility to give our hearts to God. I think the main takeaway is that we cannot change *other* people's hearts and we cannot automatically expect God to do so on our behalf. If you are in an abusive relationship, then take steps to leave or protect yourself and don't let feelings of guilt or failure overwhelm you in the process. God does not tolerate abuse and nor should you.
I am not married, so my perspective might be uninformed. This podcast is extremely helpful because I was taught that women should adopt a sacrificial stance as a wife and are expected to be long suffering. I think it’s important to continue these conversations to educate women that this should never cover abuse in any form nor excuse immoral, criminal or cruel behavior
Love everything Sarah, Gretchen and Sheila have to say on this!! Yes, many of the prayers in the book were well written but the commentary with it was absolutely wrong and the forward was terrible! Little twisting of truth can harm so deeply.
Thank you ladies. This is so freeing .❤
Shouldn’t everyone be able to just read the book for themselves? Why is it necessary to speak all of your thoughts publicly? Stormie Omartian is an inspirational leader and ripping her down is not of God. So you disagree, disagree and move on. Is this the entire intention of this podcast? To read other Christian’s books and put in two cents? One of hosts of this podcast saying “you should never shut the door on divorce,” that isn’t Biblical, that is of the enemy. And yes divorce happens, but sometimes prayer does transform people and relationships. I urge you all as sisters in Christ to ask God to guide you in what you place out into the internet. Once it’s published it’s out there, please stop tearing down other Christians. There’s enough of that all over the world. God bless you all.
I started listening hoping for constructive criticism. Unfortunately it's just criticism. I would think that if someone is concerned that this book is harmful they would get straight to the point and say why.
It's also up to each individual to seek God's truth in His Word and by Holy Spirits guidance. The only word you should ever take as gospel, is the gospel. It is up to each of us to check with holy spirit in what we read or hear.
The fact that the author of The Power of Prayer said that her husband's anger was only directed at her and her kids tells me it wasnt "uncontrollable." If he was able to behave appropriately around others and keep his temper in check in places where his temper would get him in trouble or cost him job opportunities/friends ect. This means that his behavior was a choice.
“Nowhere in the Bible does it say that divorce is a sin.”
?
-“And he saith unto them, Whosoever shall put away his wife, and marry another, committeth adultery against her. And if a woman shall put away her husband, and be married to another, she committeth adultery.”
(Mark 10:11-12)
“Whosoever putteth away his wife, and marrieth another, committeth adultery: and whosoever marrieth her that is put away from her husband committeth adultery.”
(Luke 16:18)
There are more.
Why does separation mean I should marry someone else?
Separation should be a call to celibacy.
You’ve taken those verses out of context.
So, if you pray and pray and pray and your husband doesn’t stop his toxic behavior, then it’s YOUR fault because you haven’t prayed aright. What needless shame heaped upon your head in addition to a horrible situation!
I agree with this discussion to a point but I have to say it's not for us to disagree with someone else's testimony/God experience. The author wrote from her experience and how God interacted with her. Since God instructed her to stay who are we do discredit her obedience? Hosea was married to a prostitute who kept running away but God kept telling him to go back for her, I'm sure his generation thought him to be crazy or weak but he was obedient. The book was written from her experience to provide principles and to highlight how God used her prayers, but wisdom should dictate that each person analyze their own situation and act accordingly. The book becomes harmful if a reader blindly does what she says, using prayer as a magic wand to fix their situation without asking God for wisdom to know how he wants to direct that individual's path.
The one good thing about the book For Women Only is that the author admits that if you tell a man you don't want to kiss until your wedding day, he will lose interest and find a woman who will kiss him.
Why is this a good thing? 🤔
@@politereminder6284 It's good because she was honest about something. Purity Culture taught not to kiss until your wedding day. It taught that men were dying for us to dress "modestly" but if you tell a man you don't want to kiss him until the wedding day or wear the clothes purity culture told us men were dying for us to wear, men, even genuine Christian men, lost interest.
That's why many of us were completely flabbergasted when we saw the Duggar sisters getting married. Because although they weren't kissing and were wearing the modesty clothing, they found men who stuck around until the wedding day. The Duggar sisters didn't miss out on having children but we did. Purity Culture taught that your personality should rise above your clothing, so everyone who couldn't get a man to stick around, realised that their personality must be pretty bland and that the Duggar sisters must have super-sonic ones. That's a kick in the guts.
Pastors overall suffer a lack of Kingdom wisdom, unlike you 3 ladies. A very accurate spiritual discussion.
Besides other abuse, we didn't even have sex. He lost interest 14 years into the marriage while in his mid 30's (it was agonizing for me and I felt cheated because I had no outlet) and I spent another 21 years of misery before I finally left as an option to suicide.
“You can seek God’s help…” but you can’t seek your husband’s help?! 🤦♀️
My mother in law believes the only thing she can do it pray that her abusive husband changes. She’s had her whole church come down on her from pushing back a little bit. Now she doesn’t even try to see the truth. How can we help her?
*shrug* you can still separate and should if unsafe. And obviously there’s are a small percentage of people who are in actually life or death situations and that’s clearly not what this book is addressing. It’s addressing a general population. But divorce is not an option. Get it out of your head. Both husband and wife of you. Then the real marriage begins. You know you both are stuck w no other options but to focus and figure life out.
It is good to hear another side to this argument though from you ladies.
40 years later😢
My Dad yelled at my mum and us pretty much every day every time he saw us for decades. It had a terrible effect on my mum and on me. It's a big reason for why I have never married or had children but I'm glad my mum didn't divorce my Dad. A divorce would have crippled me and if my mum had remarried, living in a house with a new man that I'm not related to would have been really awkward and unpleasant. My Dad now has a goitre in his throat. It stops him from being able to yell.
Interestingly , I’ve heard so many children who grew up in abusive households that they wish their parents divorced. The objective to leaving for some is to live in an environment with peace. In addition, i saw a post where several children spoke of how much their lives changed for the better when their mother remarried a safe man. I think it might have been on Sheila’s page that I read all the positive stories.
Part of the fear of divorce and the stigma, especially in evangelical circles is because marriage has been idolised above justice and safety.
None of us can know how life would have worked out if something was done differently at any point. In wider society divorce is a challenge for children, but rarely crippling, and yes stepparents can be a minefield, whether after divorce or death of a partner.
In evangelical circles the culture around you as a adult or child is so aggressive against divorce that they make it crippling, not the separation itself.
Sad that your dad needed a voice limiting illness to not yell at your mum. She had a right to not spend most of her life under that abuse. It is not just that we might be uncomfortable or worried as children about an unknown, but that she has rights to safety and respect for herself.
The voice may not have stopped his abuse of your mom, she may still be under abusive behavior from him in another form.
In the case of the lamb chops dinner, read “Boundaries for Marriage.” Boundaries change her that takes away his power, to get peace.
God gives people freewill, and at the same time God controls people.
Proverbs 16:9
“A man's heart deviseth his way: but the LORD directeth his steps.” And
“…work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. For it is God which worketh in you…”
(Philippians 2:12b-13a)
So, people have freewill, but not totally.
Putting the husband first before the wife and the children’s welfare or safety is idolatry.
Good you do this same format on the book "The Control Trap" by Barbara Sullivan
Thats not what she says in the book you have decided to interpret it they way you feel because you are bitter for your loss and another is happy and still married. Your loss
It worked for her and it can walk for others in thier case. If it fid not walk for you and you guys had to devors then take it down on jer book she did what she did and it worked. And sorry ladies her kids are happy thier fsther has changed and they jave them both together. Divorce does harm to they children aswell so sorry ladies.
I think it was God who told me to divorce. When I was planning my suicide, a voice came into my head which said "divorce is better than suicide!. After I signed the papers, I had a joy and peace I had not experienced in decades.
Rom 7:2
1Cor 7:39
1 Corinthians 7:11
“But and if she depart, let her remain unmarried, or be reconciled to her husband:…”
I am simply finding Bible to help me avoid getting married to someone else. “Everyone” at church says I should date. But separation does not require a new romance.
❤ excellent!!
how do we know that she "could have left"?
Some women do not have financial resources to leave. Only when my mom said she would be giving us some early inheritance did I decide to leave.
Sarah was speaking about defining abuse and she said there were 4 criteria. Can anyone direct me to that resource please? TIA
Lots of men just don’t have any fear in a marriage. All the support structures are on their side. I have sometimes quipped that each church should have a gang of bodyguards who can come in and beat an abusive husband until he gets it, and repents. Of course this is not an incitement to anything, but the fear of the Lord is really absent. Proverbs 1:7
Abuse, infidelity, alcoholism, etc can be destroyed through prayer if its in Gods will. Our job is to pray from a right posture and heart..the power of prayer is real but ultimately its Gods will..Stormie never says that those prayers will 100% work and she clearly doesnt condone abuse in marriage. Our job as wives is to pray and trust God but most of all trist His will. I think you ladies dont have a clear understanding of what she was intending this book to be. I know for me it saved my marriage.. then again both my husband are Christians and that makes a difference... if you are unequally yoked then you need to start there... being yoked. Sometimes we pray selfishly as Stormie stated or dont understand God's will then get disappointed when their prayers aren't answered. Its evident where your walk is...
I changed my ways in my marriage and that also changed my husband ways towards me and prayers help aswell. So if it did not work for you then sorry, you were just is wrong marriages pray for God to help you.
This lady needs to ask God for an accurate understanding of blasphemy. That is quite an accusation against the author in reference. God actually does say, “NOTHING shall be impossible” for those that believe. I think she does not know God or understand His power as well as the author she is speaking against.
My one question about what her husband said in the forward is, was that actually his way of admitting his failure?
Cognitive dissonance is what the author sounds like
God doesnt like divorce is the verse abusers use.!! I am divorced so please ladies live the toxic relationship..God wants us to live in peace in a marriage 1Corinthians 7vs 15.. and 2Timothy 3vs 1-5..God says thru Apostle Paul that you should stay AWAY from people like that mentioned in this scripture..You stay in an unhealthy marriage praying that it will may be work out ,i tell you,you will die without fulfiling what God created you to do..God bless marriages that are bringing glory to your name. Amen🙏
I meant leave toxic relationship rather ..
I read the book years ago. I don’t remember the end. Didn’t her husband change? I took his statement , in the forward I believe, to mean that he recognized he was fine all those years and she wasn’t. A good observation. I like this video but I’m not sure they have what he said in context.
Jer_3:8 And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also.
Was Ms Stormy invited to share her side of all this....to rebut? I wonder if she has changed her stance on any of this? This was super eye opening! Tfs
I think her side was all in the book! Also, she's been contacted by so many people over the years about how her book enabled abuse. That's why she put Day 30 in the 2014 edition, but she never fixed the other days. It's a big problem.
This is a strange comment. When a person becomes an author their literary work will be subject to critique. This is especially true for a book that impacted the lives of vulnerable people. Sheila is not hosting this conversation just to roast Stormie; Sheila wants to bring light to the women who were HURT by her misogynistic teachings.
It is not a Bible study. Get the group of ladies together with Bibles and no other books. Like Bible Study Fellowship. Or maybe just also a concordance.
God divorced Israel. It is not the unpardonable sin.
I’ve noticed a phenomenon with nasty commenters. They watch the video. Then they read through the comment section. But they don’t write their own comment. They see a comment that has overwhelming support, hundreds of LIKES 👍🏼; then they make a ridiculous rebuttal.
Example- I watched several UA-cam videos accounts of the Gabby Petito and Brian L DV incident in Moab Utah (before Gabby went missing). The comment sections on these videos were shocking 😳. The majority of the comments were supportive towards Gabby. But the comments that suggested Brian was the victim were 1) all men (that I read) and 2) all responding to other commenters; these dudes did not wrote out their own independent thoughts (which were proved to be wrong considering Brian confessed to murdering Gabby 😭)I’m not an experienced social media user… is this what a troll 😈 is?
Mo. That's not a troll. Trolls are insincere. Honest / earnest disagreement from internal beliefs is not trolling
You’re dead wrong! My mom, my family prayed for 30 years for my brother’s alcoholism, three packs a day cigarettes and he gave it up
Lol 30 years 😂😂
Mr Elliot kissing other girls? What page in Passion and Purity?
But God did not work for the Author as she says He should