All these comments about little things done wrong.. Thanks for the video, it's very much appreciated. It's nice to see a quick straightforward install of this device and it answered all of my questions.
It's the little things that will destroy your home. He didn't back up his propress fittings, that thing could pop off! Too much Teflon could cause the fitting to split.
I have one of these devices and it works well. I agree with the comment about deburring. When the local plumber (different company) installed mine he did not deburr properly. Some metal shavings got into the water flow sensor (little turbine sensor) and jammed it up. I had to take it apart and clean it out. Has worked fine since (2.5 years). Very reliable. The ball valve cycles every day which is important to make sure it works properly and is not getting buildup. It rotates in one direction which is also good. Where is the electrical bonding jumper? This is a plastic device and the continuity of the ground path is now broken.
Thanks for the video; it was very helpful. This also illustrates why I like to do things myself. The installer didn't deburr anything and did not apply any grease to the o-rings, and this was on video that was obviously rehearsed with good production values.
Lol these comments are hilarious. I’m a plumber installing this system right now. Loved your informative video. Especially the break down of the app work, I struggle with this new tech. There’s a million ways to get to the end of a project people. All that matters is if it works and doesn’t leak😂
interesting, so these (auto water shutoff) devices all seem to require utility power (ands/or active wifi) to work...scenario comes to mind, cold climate, power goes out, pipe(s) freeze then leak but no power available to turn valve off or sensors to communicate...would these need to have a battery backup then to be truly relied upon?
Its a good basic walkthrough and I hope that people note the things not done correctly (backing up the propress, deburring, excess wraps/dope, lack of lubricant on oring after expansion tank). The only addition is the minimum length of straight pipe is not met, this will result in uneven flow rates, so the impeller (what measures water flow) will loose accuracy coming off the 90° turn. The manual states these minimum distances in step #2. I
I understand why it is best practice to include longer straight pipe prior to the device, but I read through the online manual and did not find any mentions of a minimum pipe length upstream of the device. From the manual that you are referring to, what is the distance? I know from experience that in a heating system which has an air scoop (air eliminator) they require a minimum of 18" before the device for proper flow and functionality but this is a different system, though without the correct spacing you get turbulence and it cannot remove the air properly. I can see that there may be a similar potential problem with this device, though I don't see anything about that in the manual. Can you quote the manual for the correct spacing please?
We've installed one. But the pressure readings are way do high when compared to multiple pressure testing tools. Is there a way to calibrate the unit's pressure measurement?
@Michael Dare - This may sound like a stupid question, but do you happen to have the Flo installed before a pressure reducing valve? That would account for the high readings vs. taking down stream pressure readings after the reducing valve. Just a question. I don't know of any way to calibrate the units pressure measurement, but Moen could help you.
What happens if you're not home and the power goes out? Does this device have a backup power source? Or is it completely useless if your power goes out? 😢
The plumber in the video was grabbing the flange of the union with the channel locks to tighten the fitting to the adapter, very bad idea, as this can lead to warpage of the flange, or add burs to the side of the flange which can lead to an improper fit. The correct thing to do would have been to lift the union nut and grab the hex nut portion of the union fitting with the channel locks, THAT'S WHAT IT'S THERE FOR.
Maybe a dumb question (wouldn't be my first or last) But is there any possibility that the Teflon tape or pipe dope could come in contact with our water? Probably toxic if it touches the water that we are drinking, but hopefully it's unlikely or impossible, right?
Been trying to pair them for two days and no luck. I have talked the support line and that doesn't seem to help. Had a licensed plumber install two of them and both leaked at the plastic fittings he had to come back. Also, on install the rubber gasket where the power plugs in fell off with the nut that holds the power jack on one of them. Ugh not impressed.
Try wifi administrator for the wifi unit itself..it may show that it's trying to pair but needs your permission to do so..... Took me hours and hours to pair a smart light bulb... The administrator page access is kinda tough.. .even if you know it exists...maybe ask your wifi supplier about the administrator page
What's the lifespan of the Flo module? The motor turning the valve nightly, over and over, worries me, along with the O-ring. Not in a bad way, but this doesn't appear to be a forever solution so am wondering what their version of forever is. Good video, great detail.
I don't believe the valve shuts nightly. Just when it senses unusual water flow. There is a replace piece to swap out if needed to service or replace the unit.
Moen's version of "forever" is a (1) year warranty from date of original purchase. Their warranty on repaired parts is (90) days from date of repair. How long will it last? That's the million $ question. So far the track record on the Flo system is very good. Haven't seen a lot of problems and there's not a lot of negative reviews, but as always, your mileage may vary. You don't have to set the modes to close the valve every night if you don't want to. The valve will cycle once a day. For its price point, it is a very good system. Other systems like Leak Defense are going to run you in the $3000-$4000 range installed. Hope this helps.
I told myself I wasn't going to comment.... then I saw blue channelocks, the handyman pliers. 1. Too much Teflon, manufacturer doesn't recommend more than 3 layers of Teflon. 2. You didn't back up the propress fitting when you tightened. Someone posted about comments on the "little things" well those little things could cause a major issue down the road. Get some wilde pliers and try adhering to manufacture specs.
Spot on. Thinking the same. 1. Debur 2. Clean 3. Marker for the pro press fitting (OCD) for me. 4. Crescent wrench’s or smooth jaw channels 5 After the tape I always seat it in the threads. I don’t use dope or paste just a light bit of plumbers grease. But besides that it’s a good product. Plastic nuts suck but that is the hand we’re given.
Hello, I live in Florida and the main line enters the house through stucco/cement block and then directly into the concrete foundation. There isn't indoor main-line access. Is it OK to install the Moem Flo outdoors, on the main line, and cover it with a watertight box or housing ? Thank you
Same set up. Don’t do it. I researched the device and asked Moen several times would this work the answer was yes. After spending thousands on the device, plumber, WiFi extenders, and running pipe/extension cords/etc underneath the ground to get the device to work: two things….no matter how strong your wifi is the device will constantly go out bc it’s on the ground. Plus, it will get wet! I had it for one year and went out constantly and after a year the rain water leaked into the watertight box and ruined it. No matter what Moen says it will obviously ONLY work for those whose main water supply is not in the ground. Has to be in an upright location, in a garage, or in the side of the house. Moen did replace my device but i have a brand new one and have no idea where to place it now bc it risks getting ruined by weather or not working properly due to being placed in the wrong location (not on main water line). I had a major flood years ago and tried to prevent another one.
Another good video. Have you guys installed a Uponor Pyhn? Do you have a preference on the Flo by Moen versus the Uponor system? Thanks for your time. Ron
@@urbanturbine exactly...ive seen this and felt this in person, it feels like too much cheap plastic all around, pretty disgraceful when it costs around $500
@@bludika i am going to put a leak detector and cut-out relay on my well pump so that if this crap fails, my pump will not flood the basement. Really annoying though. I hope they knew what they were doing.
I'm about to install a Flo valve in my home. What kind of grease should I use on the connection O-rings? I want to be sure I don't use the wrong type of grease and ruin them.
Had a terrible connecting to my phone. The bonehead plumber install the flo pointing down so the buttons and q code were facing the floor make it very difficult to see the buttons and q code. Device should be bi-directional so the knucklehead plumbers can't screw up the visabity of the top of the device.
1. You are correct. It should have been deburred. 2. Expansion tanks are normally installed above the water heater; however, they can really be installed anywhere on the cold water line prior to entry into the water heater (as long and there is no check valve between them). 3. Thanks for your comment.
@@willplumb The expansion tank should be installed after the cold shutoff valve at the water heater. The only reason to have an expansion tank is because of the water heater. If somebody shuts the valve off to the heater and the expansion tank is by the main then there is nowhere for the hot water to expand and that's bad.If you didn't put a shutoff for the heater then it would be ok to put the exp tank by the main. I think local codes should require an exp tank by the main as well because sometimes a happy homeowner will do some non inspected remodeling and mess things up. At least there would be some protection if it was at the main.
@@willplumb Thank you for clarifying it was a mistake. A lot of people don't deburr since it can be 20-30 years before any issues come from not deburring the pipe.
@@bullmoosepiper7732 I've had one of the Flo's running for about a year. It shuts off the water and does a leak down test each night, I suspect the first failure will be in the PTFE seal for the ball valve. 365 cycles a year, hmm.
Just asked my insurance company about discounts and they would drop my premiums by $20 annually. What a deal! I could get a whole extra meal from chipotle for spending $1000+ on a system saving them $100,000+. America FUCK YEAH
Wow the "plumber" didn't even debur or even clean the pipe before installing the propress fittings. That's a leak waiting to happen. Sloppy sloppy sloppy!
Who taught Jeremy plumbing ??? I never heard of a plumber that had a pro press fittings tool but didn’t have a real wrench!!! Channel locks are you kidding me??? You do realize that those fittings are made out of brass and you’re putting a channel lock which has teeth that leaves all kinds of scratches and dents and indications especially on a piece that is supposed to lay flush with another connection point. You can put all the pipe dope you want that suckers gonna leak after being chewed up by a channel lock. You should only be using channel locks to remove hardware. How much is a wrench these days? $10 But you’ll buy a $400 Pro Press tool. Unreal….
i was thinking the exact same thing. 100% of your home's water will flow through this device - it should be better constructed. In addition, these devices cost in excess of $600.
All these comments about little things done wrong.. Thanks for the video, it's very much appreciated. It's nice to see a quick straightforward install of this device and it answered all of my questions.
It's the little things that will destroy your home. He didn't back up his propress fittings, that thing could pop off! Too much Teflon could cause the fitting to split.
I have one of these devices and it works well. I agree with the comment about deburring. When the local plumber (different company) installed mine he did not deburr properly. Some metal shavings got into the water flow sensor (little turbine sensor) and jammed it up. I had to take it apart and clean it out. Has worked fine since (2.5 years). Very reliable. The ball valve cycles every day which is important to make sure it works properly and is not getting buildup. It rotates in one direction which is also good.
Where is the electrical bonding jumper? This is a plastic device and the continuity of the ground path is now broken.
Just bought one - installing soon. Thank you for the video!
Wayne Campbell No problem! Good luck!
how much did it cost?
Thanks for the video; it was very helpful. This also illustrates why I like to do things myself. The installer didn't deburr anything and did not apply any grease to the o-rings, and this was on video that was obviously rehearsed with good production values.
Lol these comments are hilarious. I’m a plumber installing this system right now. Loved your informative video. Especially the break down of the app work, I struggle with this new tech. There’s a million ways to get to the end of a project people. All that matters is if it works and doesn’t leak😂
This is it Mark!!!
Probably should have relocated the expansion tank after the moen flo… those are one of the top spots for leaks in a plumbing system!
Thx haven’t heard of pro press.
interesting, so these (auto water shutoff) devices all seem to require utility power (ands/or active wifi) to work...scenario comes to mind, cold climate, power goes out, pipe(s) freeze then leak but no power available to turn valve off or sensors to communicate...would these need to have a battery backup then to be truly relied upon?
Can this used on tje hot water line and set to a 10 minutes??
Does the transition union come with the kit?
So the flow meter would be installed. Right before the main goes into the house, correct? On the riser
Awesome! Thanks.
Great video .what state are you in ?
Its a good basic walkthrough and I hope that people note the things not done correctly (backing up the propress, deburring, excess wraps/dope, lack of lubricant on oring after expansion tank).
The only addition is the minimum length of straight pipe is not met, this will result in uneven flow rates, so the impeller (what measures water flow) will loose accuracy coming off the 90° turn. The manual states these minimum distances in step #2.
I
I understand why it is best practice to include longer straight pipe prior to the device, but I read through the online manual and did not find any mentions of a minimum pipe length upstream of the device. From the manual that you are referring to, what is the distance? I know from experience that in a heating system which has an air scoop (air eliminator) they require a minimum of 18" before the device for proper flow and functionality but this is a different system, though without the correct spacing you get turbulence and it cannot remove the air properly. I can see that there may be a similar potential problem with this device, though I don't see anything about that in the manual. Can you quote the manual for the correct spacing please?
How large of pipe? Will it work for commercial?
How does this compare to Phyn Plus?
We've installed one. But the pressure readings are way do high when compared to multiple pressure testing tools. Is there a way to calibrate the unit's pressure measurement?
@Michael Dare - This may sound like a stupid question, but do you happen to have the Flo installed before a pressure reducing valve? That would account for the high readings vs. taking down stream pressure readings after the reducing valve. Just a question. I don't know of any way to calibrate the units pressure measurement, but Moen could help you.
A pressure reducing valve before the flo
Great video it really helped. 👍
So is the braking the house ground ? Ground wire is connected to water pipes in some houses
Stupid question: why didn’t you deburr the cut copper pipe?
Would you recommend someone to use a larger sized Moen Flo to fit a smaller sized pipe? I can get a 1-inch Moen Flo but my pipes are 3/4 pex
You want to match the line size of your water main coming into the house. If you have 3/4" diameter line, use the 3/4" Flo.
What happens if you're not home and the power goes out? Does this device have a backup power source? Or is it completely useless if your power goes out? 😢
The plumber in the video was grabbing the flange of the union with the channel locks to tighten the fitting to the adapter, very bad idea, as this can lead to warpage of the flange, or add burs to the side of the flange which can lead to an improper fit. The correct thing to do would have been to lift the union nut and grab the hex nut portion of the union fitting with the channel locks, THAT'S WHAT IT'S THERE FOR.
Maybe a dumb question (wouldn't be my first or last) But is there any possibility that the Teflon tape or pipe dope could come in contact with our water? Probably toxic if it touches the water that we are drinking, but hopefully it's unlikely or impossible, right?
They have to flush out the fixtures
Been trying to pair them for two days and no luck. I have talked the support line and that doesn't seem to help. Had a licensed plumber install two of them and both leaked at the plastic fittings he had to come back. Also, on install the rubber gasket where the power plugs in fell off with the nut that holds the power jack on one of them. Ugh not impressed.
Try wifi administrator for the wifi unit itself..it may show that it's trying to pair but needs your permission to do so.....
Took me hours and hours to pair a smart light bulb...
The administrator page access is kinda tough.. .even if you know it exists...maybe ask your wifi supplier about the administrator page
What's the lifespan of the Flo module? The motor turning the valve nightly, over and over, worries me, along with the O-ring. Not in a bad way, but this doesn't appear to be a forever solution so am wondering what their version of forever is. Good video, great detail.
I don't believe the valve shuts nightly. Just when it senses unusual water flow. There is a replace piece to swap out if needed to service or replace the unit.
Moen's version of "forever" is a (1) year warranty from date of original purchase. Their warranty on repaired parts is (90) days from date of repair. How long will it last? That's the million $ question. So far the track record on the Flo system is very good. Haven't seen a lot of problems and there's not a lot of negative reviews, but as always, your mileage may vary. You don't have to set the modes to close the valve every night if you don't want to. The valve will cycle once a day. For its price point, it is a very good system. Other systems like Leak Defense are going to run you in the $3000-$4000 range installed. Hope this helps.
I told myself I wasn't going to comment.... then I saw blue channelocks, the handyman pliers. 1. Too much Teflon, manufacturer doesn't recommend more than 3 layers of Teflon. 2. You didn't back up the propress fitting when you tightened. Someone posted about comments on the "little things" well those little things could cause a major issue down the road. Get some wilde pliers and try adhering to manufacture specs.
I’m a DIY what Wilde pliers do you recommend to purchase if the blue ones are not 5he correct ones. Those are the ones I own
Spot on. Thinking the same. 1. Debur 2. Clean 3. Marker for the pro press fitting (OCD) for me. 4. Crescent wrench’s or smooth jaw channels 5 After the tape I always seat it in the threads. I don’t use dope or paste just a light bit of plumbers grease. But besides that it’s a good product. Plastic nuts suck but that is the hand we’re given.
It’s either Channelocks or Knipex
I would imagine on a copper system you would have to add a bonding wire to reground the system with this installed there is no longer a path to ground
I think on a water system. The copper pipe is the ground. It’s the best ground there is.
Hello, I live in Florida and the main line enters the house through stucco/cement block and then directly into the concrete foundation. There isn't indoor main-line access. Is it OK to install the Moem Flo outdoors, on the main line, and cover it with a watertight box or housing ? Thank you
Definitely wouldn't recommend
Moen says it's IP5 water-resistant, suitable for installing outdoors in an enclosure that won't become submerged in water.
Same set up. Don’t do it. I researched the device and asked Moen several times would this work the answer was yes. After spending thousands on the device, plumber, WiFi extenders, and running pipe/extension cords/etc underneath the ground to get the device to work: two things….no matter how strong your wifi is the device will constantly go out bc it’s on the ground. Plus, it will get wet! I had it for one year and went out constantly and after a year the rain water leaked into the watertight box and ruined it. No matter what Moen says it will obviously ONLY work for those whose main water supply is not in the ground. Has to be in an upright location, in a garage, or in the side of the house. Moen did replace my device but i have a brand new one and have no idea where to place it now bc it risks getting ruined by weather or not working properly due to being placed in the wrong location (not on main water line). I had a major flood years ago and tried to prevent another one.
Another good video. Have you guys installed a Uponor Pyhn? Do you have a preference on the Flo by Moen versus the Uponor system?
Thanks for your time.
Ron
i dont get why they make the nut in plastic, why not make it brass?
Cost
Because the manufacturer saves $1, But when it fails, it costs MANY $thousands to repair the damage. MAKES NO SENSE!!!
they probably save literally $1. I bought this and haven't installed it yet. It is icky that the whole body is plastic.
@@urbanturbine exactly...ive seen this and felt this in person, it feels like too much cheap plastic all around, pretty disgraceful when it costs around $500
@@bludika i am going to put a leak detector and cut-out relay on my well pump so that if this crap fails, my pump will not flood the basement. Really annoying though. I hope they knew what they were doing.
Should ream the pipe after cutting it
You didn't ream the pipe before installing the fitting. Bad form.
Where the pressure reduces valve
I am a bit surprised that the fittings are plastic.
I love how you didn't mention that you could also use sharkbite male threaded fitting adapter lol.
I'm about to install a Flo valve in my home. What kind of grease should I use on the connection O-rings? I want to be sure I don't use the wrong type of grease and ruin them.
Probably too late in answering: use a food grade silicone grease. Amazon or Supply House dot com will have it.
FYI, Teflon tape is only a lubricant to make the 2 ends thread together more easily. It's the dope that seals the threads.
No its not
@@MrKenstar2 what is ‘it’ and what isn’t ‘it’?
Thread sealant or pipe dope has two purposes lubricate and seal the threads. That's literally in the code book and on the plumbing test.
@@philh8829 literally only talking about pipe dope. Pipe dope is the lamens term for thread sealant which is on the container
Exactly opposite. Pipe dope seals, tape fills in any voids
Skip to 4:39
You forgot to use the included grease on the o-rings.
What if you only have a line 📞☎️
Had a terrible connecting to my phone. The bonehead plumber install the flo pointing down so the buttons and q code were facing the floor make it very difficult to see the buttons and q code. Device should be bi-directional so the knucklehead plumbers can't screw up the visabity of the top of the device.
TWO THINGS WRONG HERE
1. YOU DIDN'T DEBURR
2. A THERMAL EXPANSION TANK AT MAIN LINE WHEN IT SHOULD NEXT TO THE WATER HEATER
1. You are correct. It should have been deburred.
2. Expansion tanks are normally installed above the water heater; however, they can really be installed anywhere on the cold water line prior to entry into the water heater (as long and there is no check valve between them).
3. Thanks for your comment.
@@willplumb The expansion tank should be installed after the cold shutoff valve at the water heater. The only reason to have an expansion tank is because of the water heater. If somebody shuts the valve off to the heater and the expansion tank is by the main then there is nowhere for the hot water to expand and that's bad.If you didn't put a shutoff for the heater then it would be ok to put the exp tank by the main. I think local codes should require an exp tank by the main as well because sometimes a happy homeowner will do some non inspected remodeling and mess things up. At least there would be some protection if it was at the main.
@@willplumb Thank you for clarifying it was a mistake. A lot of people don't deburr since it can be 20-30 years before any issues come from not deburring the pipe.
@@D-cs1qt what can occur from not deburring in future?
OK, so when the Flo gets a leak then what 😁
Then you back the unions off and address the leak, which is most likely a badly seated or deteriorated o-ring.
@@bullmoosepiper7732 I've had one of the Flo's running for about a year. It shuts off the water and does a leak down test each night, I suspect the first failure will be in the PTFE seal for the ball valve. 365 cycles a year, hmm.
Just asked my insurance company about discounts and they would drop my premiums by $20 annually. What a deal! I could get a whole extra meal from chipotle for spending $1000+ on a system saving them $100,000+. America FUCK YEAH
I think it's more about not having to live in a hotel for a year while your house gets refurbished
Wow the "plumber" didn't even debur or even clean the pipe before installing the propress fittings. That's a leak waiting to happen. Sloppy sloppy sloppy!
Put the fitting on hand tight and marked it with his thumb. Not very precise.
Who taught Jeremy plumbing ??? I never heard of a plumber that had a pro press fittings tool but didn’t have a real wrench!!! Channel locks are you kidding me??? You do realize that those fittings are made out of brass and you’re putting a channel lock which has teeth that leaves all kinds of scratches and dents and indications especially on a piece that is supposed to lay flush with another connection point. You can put all the pipe dope you want that suckers gonna leak after being chewed up by a channel lock. You should only be using channel locks to remove hardware. How much is a wrench these days? $10 But you’ll buy a $400 Pro Press tool. Unreal….
Pipe down, chachi!
The Flo has weak plastic fittings I won’t trust
i was thinking the exact same thing. 100% of your home's water will flow through this device - it should be better constructed. In addition, these devices cost in excess of $600.
Horrible privacy policy.
DEBURR THE F PIPE! What a lazy job
Lol “pipe dope” lmao