@@Tindurbox - Too bad it's not as easy to recycle battery materials as simply crushing it. It requires loads of other chemicals, machinery, and labor. As of today, mining lithium is still cheaper than recycling unless they can optimize it.
@@MunroLive BE SURE TO TELL ELON MUSK AND ALL THESE GREENIES YOU PUTTING THE CART BEFORE THE HORSE TOTAL ILLOGICAL FOOLS! PUSHING OUTDATED TECH OLDER THAN COMBUSTION!
Holy crap, Wiegel, the organization who sponsored this video are practically down the street from me. Insanely cool. didnt realize we had such advanced manufacturing here in Chicagoland still. I'm going to have to check em out!
I hope for Chicago's sake they stay. Because the mentioning of a Mexico plant starting this year. I'm wondering if they are moving operations to Mexico.
Battery configuration: likely 192s 7p, which would be about 705V DC nominal. 4 modules of 336 cells each. The 4 modules are 48s 7p each. To be confirmed once they can look under the green foam which may hide a couple of more cells at the ends. There is a switching circuit that can either switch the pack to 192s 7p (all 4 modules in series) or 96s 14p (2s2p of the modules).
@@philippeferreiradesousa4524I think 816V is the peak charge voltage. 192s 7p seems to be correct. Nominal voltage would be 705V. Still an 800V system.
@@wiegelmfg thanks for sharing! I'll pass along to the firm I moonlight with just in case there's something you can make for us. You should check them out, they have a giant mech ;p Exo-Sapien Technologies
I was about to make exactly the same comment. This is the first ad since a long time that I actively have watched. What was produced in the clip, it looked like battery connectors, but what does the combination of different alloys do? Is it a stability thing?
"Uhm, ah yeah. I really think that, uhm, do you, ah, is that all you wanted to say?" isn't exactly a great presentation style, in my opinion. Whenever Sandy is talking the engineers/mechanics on camera with him look sooooooo uncomfortable. Their breathing and eye movements especially stand out, and they obviously fear correcting or disagreeing with the things he says. When Sandy is waxing poetic how everything they've seen so far in this teardown is wonderful and great and amazing you'd expect the engineers to nod their heads, add agreeable vocalizations, etc but instead they get shifty eyed, shuffle slightly, and remain quiet. When their turn to speak comes around they quickly start on a new topic.
You probably won't see this but thanks Tom and Sandy for a great injection of positivity and technology. Really needed this today with all the negative things going on around Tesla (and the world for that matter). Cheers to you and the team - this was superb.
sandy is great. Sometimes he likes to go on about tesla, but he adds humor, a ton of experience, and a laid back kind of attitude, but still insistent on details.
@@davidanalyst671 At times Tesla is worth going on about. A lot of what one sees first in a Tesla shows up in other BEVs. When will we see gigaCastings in ICE cars.
The ability to pressurize the pack and a pressure sensor should also allow some diagnostics about whether there are breaches in the seals or a stuck open port. Hopefully this will make the packs even safer
I think the active pressurization keeps the battery safe from water intrusion through the sealants, but also prevents chamber indenting or distortion when submerged. [Therefore preserving the integrity of surfaces holding sealant.]
3:10 This conversation is so helpful. Munro is the kindest teacher. Thank you. STEM is helping younger engineers. Please expand this wonderful channel to help our educational system. You have my respect.
19:00 The car/truck has basically one *wear item* that's worth 30K-40K USD and you can only hope that there isn't any unexpected fault in that part because it cannot be repaired, only replaced!
Any kind of individual cell level failure is a 1 in 1,000,000’s event. Designing in repairability is certainly more time and money overall than just replacing the whole pack in those extremely rare events.
@@TheConnor12500 If we assume that one cell has probability of 1 in million to fail, then a battery with 7104 cells (like in Tesla Model S P85) will work with probability of (999999/1000000)^7104 or about 0.993 or about 99 times out of 100. In practice, that tells us that 1 car out of 100 will have a failed battery pack if a single cell has failure rate 1 in million. Create a battery pack with more cells and you'll soon have a lot more failed battery packs. And I'm pretty sure that in real world a single cell has more than 1 in million probability to fail. Luckily, the cell manufacturer does some automated testing for each cell to try to remove the broken ones but this kind of filtering/testing can never catch all the failures.
@@theyutzinator I guess you mean replacing cells because repairing individual cell would make very little sense. Replacing individual cells is somewhat doable with Tesla Model S style battery, pretty easy in something like Toyota Prius and next to impossible to do with something like Tesla Cybertruck.
That Wiegel ad / Tour was cool! I usually dont watch Ad's but that was extremely interesting to see. I love seeing copper and tinned copper bus bars being stamped. Super cool stuff!
And on your results? Maybe there is a special treatment for you (or a car with an accident is coming up). I think 70% of what is interesting can be retrieved without destroying the battery.
@@Matzes I'll believe it. Especially if they forgot Hazmat on shipping. They don't have a major contract with a carrier to keep the price reasonable. Plus, this is the kind of company that is going to be paying a decent wage even to junior staff. Even more, digging batteries out of foam without damaging them, then cleaning them up for weeks on end has to be super boring.
Remember the flood ports and compressor are a necessity for fording water. The water is usually always cooler than the mechanical parts or battery pack. When the void is cooled it will create a vacuum and attempt to suck water in where ever it can. On a traditional banjo axle the breather on the top of the differential housing is a oneway valve to allow pressure out. When the housing is cooled in deep water the valve sucks shut. Water is pulled in past the wheel bearing oil seals . The larger the air void in the battery pack the more 'air' needs to be managed. The compressor is critical.
The battery system has a SCUBA type regulation valve that minimizes the _differential_ pressure of the battery. BTW, the Cybertruck air compressor has a sizable reservoir, and if this compressor fails, you are not going to be driving the truck.
This is true. The new structural battery packs aren’t financially viable to be repaired. To get to a cell means destroying most of the pack so it makes no sense vs older packs. However, with how strong each cell is now built and contained, with how much better the BMS systems are and with how much less parts there are (no more tiny little BMS wires like older packs) it’s also much more unlikely that the pack would need replacing in the vehicles life. Of course, this is yet to be seen fully. But this isn’t anything new. A replacement engine for my 2012 BMW X1 would be around £1,500 and after labour would be £2,000 or so. Which is cheaper than it would be to take the engine apart and rebuild it. I suspect by the time these cars/trucks are 11 years old like my car, a replacement pack if needed, would be around the same price. And they’re pretty easy to swap out too, not much labour involved
@@iambenmitchell I look at my car (Renault Zoe) and I see it like this: This car has 196 LG Chem E63 cells. Each costs about 25€ and needs almost no tools to replace. So in case 1 cell fails, I would need to replace 2 of them (battery is 98s 2p) and it would cost me 50€ in parts, and I could do it with 20€ in parts (including battery tester).
@Mladjasmilic Or, you could say that loss of one cell would be insignificant..... With 48(?) Cells per row, 7 rows per module and 4 modules, the vehicle has ±1,344 cells. . From recollection the Model Y pack had a welded cell connection plate that served as a fuse at the point it joined to each cell. . So, if a cell goes "high current" it would be disconnected. . If this happens, the vehicle (currently with a 125kWh pack?) Loses 125,000÷1344 = 93Wh of capacity. . That's ±0.74 *percent* loss per cell. ...... Congratulations on having the confidence (and ability?) to attempt repair of a high voltage pack. You must be one of the very few with the knowledge *and equipment* necessary to lift a car (safely) then drop a pack from under the vehicle (safely) diagnose the problem, strip it (safely), replace a cell (you mean module?) Balance, then reassemble the pack/ vehicle! . I wonder how much investment in lifting equipment (etc) and time that might take? . I'm sure that mere mortals would prefer to pay for 2-3 hours of professional attention to swap a pack which will be greatly reduced in price when the original is out of warranty in 8-10 years.... Maybe? Rather than days of labour to strip, repair and refit the original with no guarantee of success and probably no warranty on the work?
Tom is an absolute legend, that was some of the best explaining I've ever seen. 10 out of 10 to Tom. respect to all from Munro Live. thank u for all the content.
I just learned more about batteries in my life in this video than I ever learned them all together in my life. I see batteries differently forever. Now, I know where, why, and what we humanity are heading with the battery technology.
When you put the batteries in parallel 😅, you keep the voltage but allow it output more in terms of capacity and dumping amps. When you put the batteries in series, you greatly increase the voltage, but keep the amps the same. So 9v+9v is 18v.
Its a disposable battery pack that isn't going to be financially viable to replace. Once again Tesla has taken awesome tech and made it worse than a cell phone.
@@EthosAtheos this battery pack is designed for extreme conditions so it is basically completely sealed, while implementing some inventive safety features. Design is superior to anything else out there for the same purposes.
@@wiegelmfgnp! Precision manufacturing within the US is great/Heartening. Glad to see a great sponsor that dovetails with Munro Live is awesome. As an ex-racer, I really appreciate machinists and love the new CNC and new alloys. Great Sponsor.
Prior to the 4680 cell, individual modules could be replaced to fix in-service faults but the goop used in 4680 designs would would seem preclude any form of repair. I understand that Tesla themselves do not provide a pack repair service and expect owners to stump up for a whole refurb pack. Third-party pack repair is however possible but far less likely for 4680 packs. I hope the failure rate of 4680 packs is sufficiently low that this approach to manufacture will not prove problematic amongst Tesla owners.
With this type of pack and all the adhesive, while technically possible it'll not be financially feasible to repair these packs in any modern country (too much labor time necessary). A civilization of waste and disposability... :(
can only hope their quality control is high enough that cells or modules don't go bad. Perhaps potting the whole battery to this extent will somehow increase its life too
@@TheFlatronify yup, it essentially makes the entire pack a "throw away" if something goes wrong, and potentially the entire truck after just a few years too. this kind of anti-repair shit needs to be stopped.
It is criminal to make something with this much material and resources and not make it repairable. This should be a metric for Munro, not how easy stuff is to build and churn out…
I occasionally listen to Tom on the podcasts, and he's always interesting. But this was him in his element. Excellent. Learned a lot, especially as I was thinking that those 4680 cells were suspended, but for why? The answer was forthcoming.
It was fairly obvious they had been trying different things for a while, so Sandy having a thought is fine. Sometimes simple is best, and Andrew likely noticed there wasn't any foam on the sides like previous models. You can also tell Sandy wasn't actually upset at Andrew there. Good working relationship between people at all levels makes this seem like a nice place to work.
That thing you mentioned about the difficulty in disassembling this newest generation of battery doesn't bode well for recycling the packs when they expire. Just dealing with the cells themselves is apparently an issue, but when the pack is completely glued together like this, I imagine it will present quite the problem.
These packs usually just put in an industrial shredder and the difference materials get separated for recycling. Unfortunately you can’t reuse or repurpose the cells due to being bonded together but recycling is still possible by breaking down the packs to their raw materials.
I like it when Sandy does the commentary, he is just excellent. For example, The battery was opened up and I was thinking, "they could have fit so many more batteries in the sides". Only to have Sandy comment, "this is obviously the crash zone". It's like he knows what I'm thinking before I think it.
There need to be laws to make these batteries serviceable to some level. Sealing these things and requiring a full replacement for any failure is utterly ridiculous and not “green”
@@universeisundernoobligatio3283I've seen you write this everywhere where somebody questions the serviceability of this kind of packs. Not everything you say is necessarily true. Repairability and reliability are not each others enemies for one. And sometimes investing some money up front to lower overall costs or even being more 'green' is the way to go. Lets be honest: EVs are all about spending a bit more to impact the environment a bit less (whether EVs are successful at that is another matter).
@@universeisundernoobligatio3283 I've seen you write this multiple times in this topic. Some of it isn't even true: repairability and reliability are not each other's enemies. With some careful design, both can be achieved. However, this will cost some extra money, but sometimes investing some money up front will bring greater returns afterwards. Or even investing some money for 'greener' results is worth it. Isn't going to EVs supposed to be one big exercise in spending a bit more for greener results?
@@universeisundernoobligatio3283 It also makes the vehicle a write off out of warranty… Thats not green, you need to be able to replace at least one section of the pack at a minimum to save 75% of the materials. And not I don’t mean user servicing, I mean any servicing period, even a dealer…
@@universeisundernoobligatio3283 It would be stupidly easy to make the lid removable with redundant gaskets like O rings on these packs and be serviceable… It is criminal to use so many resources in these packs then seal them for life. Im not saying users should have access but dealer or workshop servicing at the very least…
Not really - the foam can be scraped off and washed off for repair. On my C-Zero the DC-DC converter was defective. I scratched out the silicone to unsolder two capacitors.
@@themonsterunderyourbed9408 because cells do eventually die. Lots of older EVs are serviceable and you can change out cells or banks of sells relatively easily. This design not so much. It really limits the lifetime of the car in the long term.
@@BeepasGarage You're talking out of your 🫏. You absolutely cannot change individual cells on an EV. If you do, you're asking for trouble. You'd have to change a whole module. Having one bad cell wouldn't affect the pack anyway so you wouldn't replace it. You'd need multiple cell failures in multiple modules for it to affect your battery and at that point you'd need to replace the whole pack anyway. Making your entire argument completely pointless. There's battery packs are designed to last 1 million miles and will most likely last that or close to that. You will not live long enough to see the natural failure of these battery packs.
@@themonsterunderyourbed9408 yeah okay, just ask early Model S owners who have had to have their whole batteries replaced. People change out cells and cell groupings all the time. Look up Aging Wheels videos on his Coda EV. No serviceability is bad design.
Really loving the teardown series on the Cybertruck! These detailed videos of the inner workings are exactly what I'm subscribed for. Keep them coming!
salute to the honda k24 engines on my channel is the highest milage suv on the planet the honda crv with the k24 over 1 million miles no electric vehicle on the planet is better than my vehicle.
@@tellyboy17 - Better to have a pack that never fails. As you add modularity, connectors, and can't deal with a little moisture, your pack becomes less reliable and may need those repairs you seem to want. Poor reliability is great for the dealers and service techs!
Tom this might be a crazy but with those wafers in the vent ports would it be possible for them to gather 'salt' from sea water when drying out, which in turn stop them from closing?
Has anyone figured out how to bypass failing cells yet? Its bad engineering to have a single cell produce a full pack failure. Also did they make the inlet coupling more robust such that a crack does not render the pack useless? That was a Model 3 issue and for bouldering it would be catastrophic.
There are (probably) seven cells connected in parallel for each series connected voltage step. Keep in mind that these 4860 cells have a continuous long strip of copper tabs for both anode and cathode, so the conventional failure mode (of a single narrow tab) has been eliminated.
Thanks. Would it be possible and likely that one of those cells fails? What then? How many have to fail before the battery won't work anymore? How about other components? What is the life expectancy of such a battery?
@@HS2020Music yeah, lets throw some overbearing legislation and government burocrats to poke holes, and stifle all that innovation, if it was good for the Soviet Union, I guess it would fit USA as well?
@@lassikinnunen On the contrary, most aged vehicle battery pack [modules] are reused in lower-current applications that will last for [further] decades. [This battery pack is composed of several long parallel modules, separated with insulating structural members. I'm sure these can be cut apart.]
@@imconsequetau5275 look man if the individual cells are cut from the thing the pack itself is single use. They recycle the chemicals in bigger operations not go through the packs, sure theres couple that tear down packs but thats not the norm.
Another great video Sandy and Tom! I wonder if you could break off a chunk of thet structural foam and do a.Flamibility test? Tesla has some great solutions for handling water ingress. Unfortunately that foam is likely make the pack economicaly unrepairable, prevent fire fighter water application to the cells, and hamper efficient recycling. Then there's the stranded energy issue. In a.breached battery of conventional design dunking the pack remains in brine or sodium bicarbonate solution will eventually discharge all cell groups. With the pretty green foam keeping water out, all bets are off. At least my bets
@@tomnel BS you can't recover anything from destroyed material Not to mention the expense it's cheaper to make a brand-new one. This whole design is throwaway garbage which is okay but they should be honest about it.
Nope, facts are our friend. Multiple places do just that. Here's a jerryrigeverything video showcasing one place that does this. ua-cam.com/video/s2xrarUWVRQ/v-deo.htmlsi=CQh280Dllgq9Y9gl
I wish our politicians at the national level would appreciate and value the level of ingenuity this video shows. IMO for the USA to continue to lead the world, it needs to value and support more of what we just viewed.
The extra tall ribs (that separate the 3 long battery modules) provide a lot of spare height for dents to the battery skid plate. That height may also increase longitudinal rigidity. The synthetic material also provides electrical insulation between the long battery modules, simplifying the design.
I saw a lot of people drawing hasty conclusions based off of the single photo Munto posted on Twitter a few days before this video went live, and I just want to say it doesn't seem like there is much room for another layer of batteries. Edit: its room for gas venting in event of runaway and also extra space in the event that you hit something underneath the car.
YEP. :d People are delusional. Why would u leave 80mm of extra empty space. Altought if they want too doo doubble pack they can in "theory" do it such way they decrease pasanger space and ground clearance if the mirror pack and compact it. Needed diferent central console and sets frames in this case. So 30-400 les passager space and 30-40 less ground clearence could give u dobble pack. But i m sure they will not doo that. CT in afterall niche product.
@@Hotspur37Yeah it was just weird how people were drawing conclusions based off of a photo that was posted that didn't have any explanation from Munro lol. It was just a simple picture of a battery pack.
Haha yeah they really jumped to conclusions there and other publications also started posting that the battery pack was half full, hilarious how they really ran with it with no basis
the 4 modules not for repairability but for reducing scrap cost at production, if they have a faulty modul thez can replace that one and slam in a new one before they foam and glue everything together. It would be hard to produce a whole battery without faulty welds or connections so this is makes production cheaper by allowing a little rework.
@@cruiser97eric1 Cheaper to throw it away that's what they're going to do. When it is cheaper to make a new Battery than recycling Because of the Horrible design. They might as well Have filled the whole thing with epoxy!
Companies are 100% are going to recycle these batteries. Stop spreading misinformation based on nothing. There is going to be a major market for battery materials. The best place to get them is from batteries.
I am as big of an EV fan as anyone, but my biggest pet peeve with these vehicles is the lack of repairability. Maybe using a rubber gasket in place of the adhesive around the edge or not encasing the cells in epoxy.
@@BBingo-v5ihe is correct in saying that making the battery pack serviceable would make it considerably heavier, larger, give more failure points and it would no longer be structural, leading to the chassis having to be stronger and therefore heavier. You either have a car that is more efficient but less serviceable or one that is more serviceable but less efficient and more likely to needing to be serviced. There’s pros and cons to both.
@@streddaz nah that is way too simplified. You can have awesome efficiency and longevity if you work on all components and design them the right way, especially because all modern batteries are fairly efficient anyway if you hook them up to an 800V system architecture. As far as I know the Mercedes-Benz EQXX does jot have a structural battery, and the upcoming CLA class does not have it either. Yet the EQXX is the most efficient 4-door vehicle on the planet and the CLA will be the most efficient in its class out performing the Model 3. The point is, this argument is just vaporware. The most contribution to efficiency has the drivetrain and motor, the aerodynamics and the system volt architecture. The weight and the structural stiffness are secondary at best, especially because overall engineering has become very good. Tesla just uses the cheapest ways to produce components, and a structural battery plus a fixed chassis framework are easier to work on. This can have disadvantages, too. And especially for the end consumer the positiv effects might be minuscule. Tesla doesn't care about the environment nor does it care about the ownership experience and product lifecycle. They only care about their profit margins and that is not an achivement. BMW uses recycled materials and even creates or sources new types of materials for the interior and body panels of the "Neue Klasse. The steel they use is low carbon emissiom steel, the battery assembly will use renewable energies. And the battery pack as well as the whole car is designed to be easily recyclable. I am sure you can aslo repair them better than Teslas.
As an offroader, I would disagree that the crush zone under the battery is quite enough. Yes, we often come down on rocks which can dent components under the vehicle. But rocks can be sharp enough to pierce things like the oil pan, transmission pan, gas tank. So it's quite common and cheap to put thick steel skid plates under these sensitive areas. This battery is huge, so while a skid plate could be installed, it's going to be really heavy and will need strong, secure mounting points to bolt the plate to. With a Wrangler, that's typically the frame, using a lot of the points that the existing pans and tank are mounted to or the engine or transmission case.
@24:35 Suppose you high-center your off-road Tesla CyberTruck and dent the battery skid plate. Who determines if the battery is damaged enough necessitating replacement and I this replacement covered under Tesla off-road use warranty or by insurance?
More on the vent valves and their reliability in dusty environment, researling after contact with water and maybe some guidance on maintenance on these would be useful. In the nordic climate, the older model s are suffering from "leaky" valves where dirt accumulates and compromises the selaing, thus allowing more road dirt and winter road salt to penetrate the battery, even with no real water exposure.
How much energy and materials does it take to recycle and make a new pack? Thinking that this process is easy or green is disingenuous at best! I think GM and their Ultium battery system makes more sense.
Fire departments are looking for a way to force cooling water into batteries. Can you see any way for an external input and output to be added to the batter that would allow the Fire Department to use a standard connector to supply cooling to the center of the battery during an accident or fire situation. If there is a video of the EV and the JetSki it would be nice if you provided a link to it.
Zero value to pumping water into the pack. First you really don't want to get near it. Second, water doesn't stop or even slow the failure either. Best is to just let it burn out and suppress any nearby damage. Luckily EV fires are about 1/10th the rate as ICE vehicle fires.
@@tesla_tap Such tech does exist. One solution is to inject some water such that it turns to steam and knocks out the fire then pump the battery full of water to cool the cells below ignition temperature. They use what looks like a long floor jack to punch a spike into the battery to inject the water.
@@danharold3087 - Steam and water do nothing to stop a lithium battery fire. Lithium burns just fine underwater. I think it consumes the oxgen out of water too, although not quite like tossing gasoline on a fire. Really need to just let it burn out on it's own.
@@andrewashmore8000 - While even in a serious accident, it's rare for the battery to catch fire, if it does, you have about 5 minutes before it really gets going. It's not explosive like a gasoline car fire that in a serious enough accident can almost instantly explode into the cabin. These accidents that have a fire (ICE and EV) are so extreme the passengers are usually killed before anything happens. One case I know of the car was going 120 mph on a street, lost control and the thief sliced the car in half as it hit a light pole. The EV did catch fire after a few minutes, but the thief was ejected and was killed.
The gap between the pack and interior floor and the open space in the battery together leaves plenty of space for 2 rows of 4680 cells. 123kWh x2 makes 246kWh which is plenty to get the promised 500+ mi range. 225kWh is my personal minimum for towing.
Thanks for some great info. 350 watts per kg would suggest that the Cybertruck battery could soon be >160kWh if they switch to 4695 batteries or similar
This battery pack looks like repair hell. Also, it doesn't take much for the vehicle to detect that something went wrong: the HVDC system is continuously monitored for leakage. If water bridges anything HVDC to chassis, you get told to GTFO as soon as excessive leakage current is detected since there may only be one layer of protection left between you and 350-900Vdc.
@@Resist4 They removed an entire layer of recycling from the module. Conversions cannot use junk vehicles, and the modules as they deplete would need to be rebuilt in order to be used in the secondary application.
@@ronaldking1054 And as I said they are not repairable. Just recyclable, meaning the components would be broken down to extract the lithium and other metals.
@@ronaldking1054 you don’t have to break it down to the battery. You deep tank the whole pack and melt the metals to be separated, even Sandy said that in a video.
Look at all the hard work that’s been put into making the battery a non repairable item! Very ‘green’!
F*ck EV's, I rather drive and fix a cool '68 mustang. hehe
Green adhesive for this purpose.
@@Tindurbox - Too bad it's not as easy to recycle battery materials as simply crushing it. It requires loads of other chemicals, machinery, and labor. As of today, mining lithium is still cheaper than recycling unless they can optimize it.
@@BillAnt Redwood is there. The transition is happening now.
@Tindurbox it goes to a landfill in the US you ignoramus
Kudos for the editing. Cold openings and out takes make this engineering channel all that more special. Thanks Team Munro!
Our pleasure!
@@MunroLive BE SURE TO TELL ELON MUSK AND ALL THESE GREENIES YOU PUTTING THE CART BEFORE THE HORSE TOTAL ILLOGICAL FOOLS! PUSHING OUTDATED TECH OLDER THAN COMBUSTION!
Tom is your new UA-cam star. Intelligent, clear, and easily understood. Thanks.
Tom is a superb educator ❤
He obviously knows his stuff and is able to articulate it well.
Tom is good! He has appeared in other videos, not his first rodeo.
He should go for president
who is tom?
Holy crap, Wiegel, the organization who sponsored this video are practically down the street from me. Insanely cool. didnt realize we had such advanced manufacturing here in Chicagoland still. I'm going to have to check em out!
I hope for Chicago's sake they stay.
Because the mentioning of a Mexico plant starting this year.
I'm wondering if they are moving operations to Mexico.
Battery configuration: likely 192s 7p, which would be about 705V DC nominal. 4 modules of 336 cells each. The 4 modules are 48s 7p each. To be confirmed once they can look under the green foam which may hide a couple of more cells at the ends. There is a switching circuit that can either switch the pack to 192s 7p (all 4 modules in series) or 96s 14p (2s2p of the modules).
Regulatory filings show 816V and 150Ah -> 224s6p
Video timestamp: 15m 50s
48s x 7p x 4s = 1344 pcs of 46800 Cylyndrical Cells
@@philippeferreiradesousa4524I think 816V is the peak charge voltage. 192s 7p seems to be correct. Nominal voltage would be 705V. Still an 800V system.
This Tom person is an excellent presenter. He and Sandy together are more than worth the time. Great work!
More of this guy please..
I watched at 2x speed and he's a very smooth talker and easy to absorb
I love the ads showcasing various manufacturers almost as much as the main content. Excellent!
Thank you for watching! So glad you enjoyed our ad!!
Only Munro Live can turn a sponsor read into bonus content
Thank you for enjoying our ad! :)
@@wiegelmfg thanks for sharing! I'll pass along to the firm I moonlight with just in case there's something you can make for us. You should check them out, they have a giant mech ;p Exo-Sapien Technologies
I was about to make exactly the same comment. This is the first ad since a long time that I actively have watched.
What was produced in the clip, it looked like battery connectors, but what does the combination of different alloys do? Is it a stability thing?
@@wiegelmfg all ads should be like this. I watched the whole things
@@Pyamamannetje Thank you so much!!! We are so glad you enjoyed our ad 😀
Yep…watching Sandy open up these packs is well worth the wait. Does what ever is needed to get the job done.
This video is brilliant! I'm not an engineer but I learned so much as a lay person. Simply brilliant and so educational.
So happy when Sandy's on camera! His team is great, but nothing beats Sandy's presentation style.
Same but also grateful they are showing off the other talented people at Munro. Keep it up!
"Uhm, ah yeah. I really think that, uhm, do you, ah, is that all you wanted to say?" isn't exactly a great presentation style, in my opinion. Whenever Sandy is talking the engineers/mechanics on camera with him look sooooooo uncomfortable. Their breathing and eye movements especially stand out, and they obviously fear correcting or disagreeing with the things he says. When Sandy is waxing poetic how everything they've seen so far in this teardown is wonderful and great and amazing you'd expect the engineers to nod their heads, add agreeable vocalizations, etc but instead they get shifty eyed, shuffle slightly, and remain quiet. When their turn to speak comes around they quickly start on a new topic.
Sandy still remembers the model T production line, mumble mumble yeah these are great. Goes back to sleep 😴 😅😅
You probably won't see this but thanks Tom and Sandy for a great injection of positivity and technology. Really needed this today with all the negative things going on around Tesla (and the world for that matter). Cheers to you and the team - this was superb.
This is why I watch every Munro live video. Caresoft is a lot of fluff. Sandy is simple and to the point. Great explanation on the venting!
Thanks for watching!
sandy is great. Sometimes he likes to go on about tesla, but he adds humor, a ton of experience, and a laid back kind of attitude, but still insistent on details.
@@davidanalyst671 At times Tesla is worth going on about. A lot of what one sees first in a Tesla shows up in other BEVs. When will we see gigaCastings in ICE cars.
@@danharold3087 do castings make sense in ICE cars?
@@toronado455 Yes they are drivetrain agnostic.
The ability to pressurize the pack and a pressure sensor should also allow some diagnostics about whether there are breaches in the seals or a stuck open port. Hopefully this will make the packs even safer
could most likey be added with a software update. Especially since all the sensors are already there
@@SolarScootersuk It exists already most likely, its in there, somewhere....
I think the active pressurization keeps the battery safe from water intrusion through the sealants, but also prevents chamber indenting or distortion when submerged. [Therefore preserving the integrity of surfaces holding sealant.]
I can’t explain why I find watching Munro videos so interesting, I’m in no way an engineer but knowledge is power
Same here
I look forward to every Munro video. Thankyou Sandy.
They don't say much tbh
What have we learned today? EV batteries are practically non-repairable like Apple's locked down parts. Nuff' said.
Watched the weigel ad with real interest. Hope he breaks the trend of 3rd generation companies. Seems like it will keep going strong 👍❤️
Thank you for your kind comment! We are glad you enjoyed it. 😃
3:10
This conversation is so helpful. Munro is the kindest teacher.
Thank you.
STEM is helping younger engineers. Please expand this wonderful channel to help our educational system.
You have my respect.
Wiegle interview was fun to watch. I can't say that happen too often by watching adds.
Thank you very much!! We are so glad you enjoyed our ad 😀
19:00 The car/truck has basically one *wear item* that's worth 30K-40K USD and you can only hope that there isn't any unexpected fault in that part because it cannot be repaired, only replaced!
Any kind of individual cell level failure is a 1 in 1,000,000’s event. Designing in repairability is certainly more time and money overall than just replacing the whole pack in those extremely rare events.
@@TheConnor12500 If we assume that one cell has probability of 1 in million to fail, then a battery with 7104 cells (like in Tesla Model S P85) will work with probability of (999999/1000000)^7104 or about 0.993 or about 99 times out of 100. In practice, that tells us that 1 car out of 100 will have a failed battery pack if a single cell has failure rate 1 in million.
Create a battery pack with more cells and you'll soon have a lot more failed battery packs.
And I'm pretty sure that in real world a single cell has more than 1 in million probability to fail. Luckily, the cell manufacturer does some automated testing for each cell to try to remove the broken ones but this kind of filtering/testing can never catch all the failures.
There a few shops that are repairing cells
@@theyutzinator I guess you mean replacing cells because repairing individual cell would make very little sense.
Replacing individual cells is somewhat doable with Tesla Model S style battery, pretty easy in something like Toyota Prius and next to impossible to do with something like Tesla Cybertruck.
Good thing the warranty covers battery defects for 150,000 miles…😎👍🏽
That Wiegel ad / Tour was cool! I usually dont watch Ad's but that was extremely interesting to see. I love seeing copper and tinned copper bus bars being stamped. Super cool stuff!
Thank you for your comment!! We are so glad you found our ad interesting & that you enjoyed it. 😀
Also, the batteries last time weren't an outrageously high price. Happy to pay more!
And on your results? Maybe there is a special treatment for you (or a car with an accident is coming up).
I think 70% of what is interesting can be retrieved without destroying the battery.
Just send the man a free cell Sandy.
Taking Sandy by his word, how did Munro lose a lot of money on that campaign then? Shipping? Man-hours?
Both apparently @@2nd3rd1st
@@Matzes I'll believe it. Especially if they forgot Hazmat on shipping. They don't have a major contract with a carrier to keep the price reasonable. Plus, this is the kind of company that is going to be paying a decent wage even to junior staff. Even more, digging batteries out of foam without damaging them, then cleaning them up for weeks on end has to be super boring.
Remember the flood ports and compressor are a necessity for fording water. The water is usually always cooler than the mechanical parts or battery pack. When the void is cooled it will create a vacuum and attempt to suck water in where ever it can.
On a traditional banjo axle the breather on the top of the differential housing is a oneway valve to allow pressure out. When the housing is cooled in deep water the valve sucks shut. Water is pulled in past the wheel bearing oil seals .
The larger the air void in the battery pack the more 'air' needs to be managed. The compressor is critical.
Compressors are not the surest thing in automotive NVH apps
The battery system has a SCUBA type regulation valve that minimizes the _differential_ pressure of the battery.
BTW, the Cybertruck air compressor has a sizable reservoir, and if this compressor fails, you are not going to be driving the truck.
Ifixit score 0/10
😂😂😂😂
So true. Worse than a new iPhone.
This is true. The new structural battery packs aren’t financially viable to be repaired. To get to a cell means destroying most of the pack so it makes no sense vs older packs.
However, with how strong each cell is now built and contained, with how much better the BMS systems are and with how much less parts there are (no more tiny little BMS wires like older packs) it’s also much more unlikely that the pack would need replacing in the vehicles life.
Of course, this is yet to be seen fully. But this isn’t anything new. A replacement engine for my 2012 BMW X1 would be around £1,500 and after labour would be £2,000 or so. Which is cheaper than it would be to take the engine apart and rebuild it.
I suspect by the time these cars/trucks are 11 years old like my car, a replacement pack if needed, would be around the same price. And they’re pretty easy to swap out too, not much labour involved
@@iambenmitchell
I look at my car (Renault Zoe) and I see it like this:
This car has 196 LG Chem E63 cells. Each costs about 25€ and needs almost no tools to replace. So in case 1 cell fails, I would need to replace 2 of them (battery is 98s 2p) and it would cost me 50€ in parts, and I could do it with 20€ in parts (including battery tester).
@Mladjasmilic
Or, you could say that loss of one cell would be insignificant.....
With 48(?) Cells per row, 7 rows per module and 4 modules, the vehicle has ±1,344 cells.
.
From recollection the Model Y pack had a welded cell connection plate that served as a fuse at the point it joined to each cell.
.
So, if a cell goes "high current" it would be disconnected.
.
If this happens, the vehicle (currently with a 125kWh pack?) Loses
125,000÷1344 = 93Wh of capacity.
.
That's ±0.74 *percent* loss per cell.
......
Congratulations on having the confidence (and ability?) to attempt repair of a high voltage pack.
You must be one of the very few with the knowledge *and equipment* necessary to lift a car (safely) then drop a pack from under the vehicle (safely) diagnose the problem, strip it (safely), replace a cell (you mean module?) Balance, then reassemble the pack/ vehicle!
.
I wonder how much investment in lifting equipment (etc) and time that might take?
.
I'm sure that mere mortals would prefer to pay for 2-3 hours of professional attention to swap a pack which will be greatly reduced in price when the original is out of warranty in 8-10 years.... Maybe? Rather than days of labour to strip, repair and refit the original with no guarantee of success and probably no warranty on the work?
I usually skip commercials but this one was pretty interesting. Thanks to Wiegel.
Thank you for your comment! We are glad you found it interesting! 😀
Tom is an absolute legend, that was some of the best explaining I've ever seen. 10 out of 10 to Tom. respect to all from Munro Live. thank u for all the content.
Glad you enjoyed it
Wiegel has my respect. Best information association with the content of a video I have ever experienced. Well done. Thanks to all parties involved.
Wow, that means a lot to us!! We appreciate it, and are so glad you found our ad to be interesting and informative. 😀 Thank you for your comment!!
pretty sure they make the cans for the cells ;)
I just learned more about batteries in my life in this video than I ever learned them all together in my life. I see batteries differently forever. Now, I know where, why, and what we humanity are heading with the battery technology.
Maybe one of Munro’s best video yet. Great job. Also a great ad. My Dad was a tool & design guy from back in the 50’s. He would have loved this video.
We appreciate your kind comment, it means a lot to us! Thank you 😀
When you put the batteries in parallel 😅, you keep the voltage but allow it output more in terms of capacity and dumping amps.
When you put the batteries in series, you greatly increase the voltage, but keep the amps the same. So 9v+9v is 18v.
An ad I actually like to watch! Holy carp!
We appreciate your comment!! Happy to hear you enjoyed watching. Thank you 😀
Really like Tom and the depth of knowledge he brings. Hope to see him on more videos!
Tom eloquence in his explanations is quite pedagogical without the use of esoteric acronyms. Good job gentleman and you too Sandy. 😉😏😊
Someone is very verbose... 😅😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂😅
@@DrewHaughton they say that eloquence is a tool of the intelligent. What about you? 🤔😏😉😊😁
@@dadbainits a sign of a pedantry not intelligence 😅….or a sign of autism 😂
Absolute best engineering channel on the tube
It's literally a tesla fanboy channel
brilliant design. elegantly conveyed by Tom and Sandy in layman's terms. Much appreciated!!!
Glad you enjoyed it
Its a disposable battery pack that isn't going to be financially viable to replace. Once again Tesla has taken awesome tech and made it worse than a cell phone.
@@EthosAtheos was thinking the same , it wont be possible to diagnois any problems.
@@EthosAtheos this battery pack is designed for extreme conditions so it is basically completely sealed, while implementing some inventive safety features. Design is superior to anything else out there for the same purposes.
@@ep7 no
This battery expert is good. Super sharp and great at explaining everything. He’s like Sandy’s younger brother 😂. Nice review
Those expanding wafer disks are used in rain sensor switches for lawn sprinkler systems
Props to the sponsor. Very informative!
Thank you very much for your comment- Glad you enjoyed!!
@@wiegelmfgnp! Precision manufacturing within the US is great/Heartening.
Glad to see a great sponsor that dovetails with Munro Live is awesome.
As an ex-racer, I really appreciate machinists and love the new CNC and new alloys.
Great Sponsor.
@@TamagoHead That means a lot to us! We appreciate your positivity and kind words. Thank you!! 😀
The Munro cold open is the best
Thanks!
Thanks
A Karcher dry ice blaster would be perfect for removing that foam without damaging anything or shorting out.
IRC they ether rented or purchased one last time they did a Tesla battery tear down.
They did and it took forever! But there was a lot more foam. This is nice and cleaned up. Hope they are able to save and reuse that excess.
@@Barskor1 I don't remember the brand, but do remember they blasted with dry ice. It was very expensive as mentioned in the video.
@@PhotoHoag Dip the whole thing in a saltwater bath to discharge it and then add gasoline to dissolve the foam.
@@jbbuzzable The Karcher portable one is only $18k but works off a Co2 tank instead of adding it to a hopper.
Love how Tom breaks things down.
Prior to the 4680 cell, individual modules could be replaced to fix in-service faults but the goop used in 4680 designs would would seem preclude any form of repair. I understand that Tesla themselves do not provide a pack repair service and expect owners to stump up for a whole refurb pack. Third-party pack repair is however possible but far less likely for 4680 packs. I hope the failure rate of 4680 packs is sufficiently low that this approach to manufacture will not prove problematic amongst Tesla owners.
With this type of pack and all the adhesive, while technically possible it'll not be financially feasible to repair these packs in any modern country (too much labor time necessary). A civilization of waste and disposability... :(
@@TheFlatronify Yeah I am for them to advertise as recyclable is just a straight up con. This whole industry is based on lies
can only hope their quality control is high enough that cells or modules don't go bad. Perhaps potting the whole battery to this extent will somehow increase its life too
@@TheFlatronify yup, it essentially makes the entire pack a "throw away" if something goes wrong, and potentially the entire truck after just a few years too. this kind of anti-repair shit needs to be stopped.
It is criminal to make something with this much material and resources and not make it repairable. This should be a metric for Munro, not how easy stuff is to build and churn out…
That huge battery jack was really cool. The electric scissor jack they have the battery on is cool too. 💪🏽
Thanks Sandy for sharing details of first impressions of the Cyber Battery Pack and Wiegel's technology.
I occasionally listen to Tom on the podcasts, and he's always interesting. But this was him in his element. Excellent. Learned a lot, especially as I was thinking that those 4680 cells were suspended, but for why? The answer was forthcoming.
Good job Sandy and Tom. Thank you.
Sir Munro ,keep doing what you are doing sir. Nothing but respect from India. Thank you for amazing videos
Certiainly one of my favorite technical video from you guys! I like the approach of Tom A big thanks again!
Smart guy there explaining everything! Great hire Sandy!! I don't know much about it but its fascinating to listen.
I like Andrew, simply because just popped the plywood off instead of talking about how to open it ad nauseum.
Steel. That is the bottom of the pack.
It was fairly obvious they had been trying different things for a while, so Sandy having a thought is fine. Sometimes simple is best, and Andrew likely noticed there wasn't any foam on the sides like previous models. You can also tell Sandy wasn't actually upset at Andrew there.
Good working relationship between people at all levels makes this seem like a nice place to work.
That thing you mentioned about the difficulty in disassembling this newest generation of battery doesn't bode well for recycling the packs when they expire. Just dealing with the cells themselves is apparently an issue, but when the pack is completely glued together like this, I imagine it will present quite the problem.
These packs usually just put in an industrial shredder and the difference materials get separated for recycling.
Unfortunately you can’t reuse or repurpose the cells due to being bonded together but recycling is still possible by breaking down the packs to their raw materials.
@@streddazWhat a waste....
Throwaway battery
Wiegel looks like an awesome shop. I work in automotive stamping/welding.
Hello! Thanks so much! 😃
I like it when Sandy does the commentary, he is just excellent. For example, The battery was opened up and I was thinking, "they could have fit so many more batteries in the sides". Only to have Sandy comment, "this is obviously the crash zone". It's like he knows what I'm thinking before I think it.
There need to be laws to make these batteries serviceable to some level. Sealing these things and requiring a full replacement for any failure is utterly ridiculous and not “green”
Making a battery repairable adds complexity, cost, weight and unreliability, better to design a battery that is reliable in the first place.
@@universeisundernoobligatio3283I've seen you write this everywhere where somebody questions the serviceability of this kind of packs. Not everything you say is necessarily true. Repairability and reliability are not each others enemies for one. And sometimes investing some money up front to lower overall costs or even being more 'green' is the way to go. Lets be honest: EVs are all about spending a bit more to impact the environment a bit less (whether EVs are successful at that is another matter).
@@universeisundernoobligatio3283 I've seen you write this multiple times in this topic. Some of it isn't even true: repairability and reliability are not each other's enemies. With some careful design, both can be achieved. However, this will cost some extra money, but sometimes investing some money up front will bring greater returns afterwards. Or even investing some money for 'greener' results is worth it. Isn't going to EVs supposed to be one big exercise in spending a bit more for greener results?
@@universeisundernoobligatio3283 It also makes the vehicle a write off out of warranty… Thats not green, you need to be able to replace at least one section of the pack at a minimum to save 75% of the materials. And not I don’t mean user servicing, I mean any servicing period, even a dealer…
@@universeisundernoobligatio3283 It would be stupidly easy to make the lid removable with redundant gaskets like O rings on these packs and be serviceable… It is criminal to use so many resources in these packs then seal them for life. Im not saying users should have access but dealer or workshop servicing at the very least…
i've unironically worked on those prepping them for their cell layout
The serviceability of this pack looks to be about 0.. lol
Not really - the foam can be scraped off and washed off for repair.
On my C-Zero the DC-DC converter was defective. I scratched out the silicone to unsolder two capacitors.
Why would something that requires virtually zero servicing be serviceable? How serviceable are AAA batteries?
@@themonsterunderyourbed9408 because cells do eventually die. Lots of older EVs are serviceable and you can change out cells or banks of sells relatively easily. This design not so much. It really limits the lifetime of the car in the long term.
@@BeepasGarage
You're talking out of your 🫏.
You absolutely cannot change individual cells on an EV. If you do, you're asking for trouble. You'd have to change a whole module. Having one bad cell wouldn't affect the pack anyway so you wouldn't replace it. You'd need multiple cell failures in multiple modules for it to affect your battery and at that point you'd need to replace the whole pack anyway. Making your entire argument completely pointless.
There's battery packs are designed to last 1 million miles and will most likely last that or close to that. You will not live long enough to see the natural failure of these battery packs.
@@themonsterunderyourbed9408 yeah okay, just ask early Model S owners who have had to have their whole batteries replaced. People change out cells and cell groupings all the time. Look up Aging Wheels videos on his Coda EV. No serviceability is bad design.
First time I've seen this channel. This pair are a great double-act. Lots of knowledge and making it interesting.
0:04 that what we call in the Army, a calibrated long bar.😅
Really loving the teardown series on the Cybertruck! These detailed videos of the inner workings are exactly what I'm subscribed for. Keep them coming!
Salute to Cybertruck Engineers
salute to the honda k24 engines on my channel is the highest milage suv on the planet the honda crv with the k24 over 1 million miles no electric vehicle on the planet is better than my vehicle.
??? for building a battery that cannot be repaired if anything with its 10,000+ parts go wrong??
@@tellyboy17 - Better to have a pack that never fails. As you add modularity, connectors, and can't deal with a little moisture, your pack becomes less reliable and may need those repairs you seem to want. Poor reliability is great for the dealers and service techs!
@@tellyboy17
Only ev on planet has bidirectional charging and 150K miles warranty on the battery
How many Cybertrucks will ever change their battery after it will go dead in two decades?
Stumbled upon this by chance and didn't plan to watch it, but after a few seconds I was hooked. Very interesting!
Tom this might be a crazy but with those wafers in the vent ports would it be possible for them to gather 'salt' from sea water when drying out, which in turn stop them from closing?
Tom, I really enjoyed your analysis of the Cybertruck battery pack. You're a smart guy
Has anyone figured out how to bypass failing cells yet? Its bad engineering to have a single cell produce a full pack failure. Also did they make the inlet coupling more robust such that a crack does not render the pack useless? That was a Model 3 issue and for bouldering it would be catastrophic.
This battery pack is even less repairable than your Apple phone 🤬
There are (probably) seven cells connected in parallel for each series connected voltage step.
Keep in mind that these 4860 cells have a continuous long strip of copper tabs for both anode and cathode, so the conventional failure mode (of a single narrow tab) has been eliminated.
@@imconsequetau5275 You might want to look at the Munro Engineering teardown. The pack is sealed with about 15kg of hard glue...
putting more in parallel protects you from a bad cell.
More sponsor segments like Wiegel, that was actually interresting!
We have a whole video on Wiegel!
How are the heavy cells fastened to the top of the pack to prevent them from falling into the very large gap at bottom of the pack?
They are all bonding in there.
Good to see local business sponsorships in todays online world.
Great work. Thanks for sharing this.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Thanks. Would it be possible and likely that one of those cells fails? What then? How many have to fail before the battery won't work anymore? How about other components? What is the life expectancy of such a battery?
So the CyberTruck has a non-repairable battery.
Non maintainable battery. The battery can be replaced itself, i think, but not fixed or easily recycled into differenr uses.
Yes. This Design should be forbidden for every OEM by law. To protect the customer
@@HS2020Music yeah, lets throw some overbearing legislation and government burocrats to poke holes, and stifle all that innovation, if it was good for the Soviet Union, I guess it would fit USA as well?
@@lassikinnunen
On the contrary, most aged vehicle battery pack [modules] are reused in lower-current applications that will last for [further] decades. [This battery pack is composed of several long parallel modules, separated with insulating structural members. I'm sure these can be cut apart.]
@@imconsequetau5275 look man if the individual cells are cut from the thing the pack itself is single use.
They recycle the chemicals in bigger operations not go through the packs, sure theres couple that tear down packs but thats not the norm.
Fabulous episode. This is stuff that I really watch Munro Live for. Been watching Sandy since the i3.
Another great video Sandy and Tom! I wonder if you could break off a chunk of thet structural foam and do a.Flamibility test?
Tesla has some great solutions for handling water ingress. Unfortunately that foam is likely make the pack economicaly unrepairable, prevent fire fighter water application to the cells, and hamper efficient recycling.
Then there's the stranded energy issue. In a.breached battery of conventional design dunking the pack remains in brine or sodium bicarbonate solution will eventually discharge all cell groups.
With the pretty green foam keeping water out, all bets are off. At least my bets
good points , its a pity , it looks like will be impossible to repair ,hopefully Tesla has some sort of insurance in place for that problem.
It's designed to be ground up and all the elements are separated then recovered for recycling/reuse.
@@tomnel BS you can't recover anything from destroyed material Not to mention the expense it's cheaper to make a brand-new one. This whole design is throwaway garbage which is okay but they should be honest about it.
@@funnycatvideos5490 ua-cam.com/video/s2xrarUWVRQ/v-deo.htmlsi=CQh280Dllgq9Y9gl
Nope, facts are our friend. Multiple places do just that. Here's a jerryrigeverything video showcasing one place that does this. ua-cam.com/video/s2xrarUWVRQ/v-deo.htmlsi=CQh280Dllgq9Y9gl
Sandy was in my dream last night! He asked me for a glass of milk and then I gave him a hug lol
Creepy
I wish our politicians at the national level would appreciate and value the level of ingenuity this video shows.
IMO for the USA to continue to lead the world, it needs to value and support more of what we just viewed.
You know who sandy wants to win
@@mattbrew11do you? He strikes me more like a traditional republican.
@@danubiosalas4231 which lands where in your perspective?
The USA leads the world?
When will we see Higland teardown interested in how they dampen the sound in the cabin so well?
They really dialled the safety design aspect into this pack to eleven, that's a ton of volume both for side impact and venting.
I'm guessing some of that extra bottom to is rock penetration/pack damage area due to off road.
its definetly not lol!!! the truck is yet to proove any offroad capability
There are many videos of the Cybertruck showing its capability compared to highly modified 4×4's and rock crawlers with impressive performance.
@@carholic-sz3qvdudes always trolling the comments. Tesla bad Tesla bad … 🤣🤣🤣
The extra tall ribs (that separate the 3 long battery modules) provide a lot of spare height for dents to the battery skid plate. That height may also increase longitudinal rigidity.
The synthetic material also provides electrical insulation between the long battery modules, simplifying the design.
First time watching this channel.
Love the clear & knowledgeable explanation .
You guys are excellent !
I saw a lot of people drawing hasty conclusions based off of the single photo Munto posted on Twitter a few days before this video went live, and I just want to say it doesn't seem like there is much room for another layer of batteries.
Edit: its room for gas venting in event of runaway and also extra space in the event that you hit something underneath the car.
almost like people who dont know what they are talking about should jsut keep quiet LOL
YEP. :d People are delusional. Why would u leave 80mm of extra empty space. Altought if they want too doo doubble pack they can in "theory" do it such way they decrease pasanger space and ground clearance if the mirror pack and compact it. Needed diferent central console and sets frames in this case. So 30-400 les passager space and 30-40 less ground clearence could give u dobble pack. But i m sure they will not doo that. CT in afterall niche product.
@@Hotspur37Yeah it was just weird how people were drawing conclusions based off of a photo that was posted that didn't have any explanation from Munro lol. It was just a simple picture of a battery pack.
Haha yeah they really jumped to conclusions there and other publications also started posting that the battery pack was half full, hilarious how they really ran with it with no basis
lol!!!!!! its for offroad purposes which the vehicle still hasnt yet proven any serious capabilities
the 4 modules not for repairability but for reducing scrap cost at production, if they have a faulty modul thez can replace that one and slam in a new one before they foam and glue everything together. It would be hard to produce a whole battery without faulty welds or connections so this is makes production cheaper by allowing a little rework.
Not to put the cart before the horse but I'd be curious to know how this battery unit would be recycled?
The whole pack is probably shredded into little pieces and the pieces are then processed as if it was ore from a mine to extract various metals.
@@cruiser97eric1 Thank you
@@cruiser97eric1 Cheaper to throw it away that's what they're going to do. When it is cheaper to make a new Battery than recycling Because of the Horrible design. They might as well Have filled the whole thing with epoxy!
Companies are 100% are going to recycle these batteries. Stop spreading misinformation based on nothing. There is going to be a major market for battery materials. The best place to get them is from batteries.
Real engineers doing Gods work.
Fluid dynamics might be over my head but it wouldn't put me to sleep on Munro Live
Fluid dynamics is a dry topic❤
thank you munro for this precise and very interesting description of battery specs of the cybertruck, great job!
I am as big of an EV fan as anyone, but my biggest pet peeve with these vehicles is the lack of repairability. Maybe using a rubber gasket in place of the adhesive around the edge or not encasing the cells in epoxy.
Making a battery repairable adds complexity, cost, weight and unreliability, better to design a battery that is reliable than a repairable battery.
Some EVs do use gaskets, and like any gaskets they fail over time.
@@universeisundernoobligatio3283 lol, sarcasm? Tesla just doesn't care about consumers
@@BBingo-v5ihe is correct in saying that making the battery pack serviceable would make it considerably heavier, larger, give more failure points and it would no longer be structural, leading to the chassis having to be stronger and therefore heavier.
You either have a car that is more efficient but less serviceable or one that is more serviceable but less efficient and more likely to needing to be serviced. There’s pros and cons to both.
@@streddaz nah that is way too simplified. You can have awesome efficiency and longevity if you work on all components and design them the right way, especially because all modern batteries are fairly efficient anyway if you hook them up to an 800V system architecture.
As far as I know the Mercedes-Benz EQXX does jot have a structural battery, and the upcoming CLA class does not have it either. Yet the EQXX is the most efficient 4-door vehicle on the planet and the CLA will be the most efficient in its class out performing the Model 3. The point is, this argument is just vaporware. The most contribution to efficiency has the drivetrain and motor, the aerodynamics and the system volt architecture. The weight and the structural stiffness are secondary at best, especially because overall engineering has become very good.
Tesla just uses the cheapest ways to produce components, and a structural battery plus a fixed chassis framework are easier to work on. This can have disadvantages, too. And especially for the end consumer the positiv effects might be minuscule. Tesla doesn't care about the environment nor does it care about the ownership experience and product lifecycle. They only care about their profit margins and that is not an achivement. BMW uses recycled materials and even creates or sources new types of materials for the interior and body panels of the "Neue Klasse. The steel they use is low carbon emissiom steel, the battery assembly will use renewable energies. And the battery pack as well as the whole car is designed to be easily recyclable. I am sure you can aslo repair them better than Teslas.
As an offroader, I would disagree that the crush zone under the battery is quite enough. Yes, we often come down on rocks which can dent components under the vehicle. But rocks can be sharp enough to pierce things like the oil pan, transmission pan, gas tank. So it's quite common and cheap to put thick steel skid plates under these sensitive areas. This battery is huge, so while a skid plate could be installed, it's going to be really heavy and will need strong, secure mounting points to bolt the plate to. With a Wrangler, that's typically the frame, using a lot of the points that the existing pans and tank are mounted to or the engine or transmission case.
@24:35 Suppose you high-center your off-road Tesla CyberTruck and dent the battery skid plate. Who determines if the battery is damaged enough necessitating replacement and I this replacement covered under Tesla off-road use warranty or by insurance?
More on the vent valves and their reliability in dusty environment, researling after contact with water and maybe some guidance on maintenance on these would be useful. In the nordic climate, the older model s are suffering from "leaky" valves where dirt accumulates and compromises the selaing, thus allowing more road dirt and winter road salt to penetrate the battery, even with no real water exposure.
Another throw away product, so eco friendly 👍
No product is 100% eco friendly, Plus these batteries can be broken down to recycle some of the materials.
A lot of valuable materials in one place, much more incentive to recycle
@@kyzlekikoThe recycling plant is going in your back yard, enjoy your evening glow!
Wow.. lost for words to these answers 🤦♂️
Drive your gas car until the maintaince costs empty your wallet I love my dual motor model 3 more than my Ferrari
that commercial was fascinating! i'm impressed, again
How much energy and materials does it take to recycle and make a new pack? Thinking that this process is easy or green is disingenuous at best!
I think GM and their Ultium battery system makes more sense.
The packs go through and industrial shredder and the different materials are sorted for recycling.
@@streddaz so mr genius how much energy is required to recycle and build new pack?
They made it unrepairable!
Ahhhhh musk saving the world!
Wonderful presentation. Lots of good information and no silly talk to waste time.
So to test for leaks all you have to do is sit the CT in enough water, activate "wade mode" and look for bubbles. Brilliant!
Tesla could have a leak down type test. All it takes is a pressure transducer in the battery
@@danharold3087 Thanks.
Thanks! Really appreciate your making this subject so accessible. All the best
Fire departments are looking for a way to force cooling water into batteries. Can you see any way for an external input and output to be added to the batter that would allow the Fire Department to use a standard connector to supply cooling to the center of the battery during an accident or fire situation.
If there is a video of the EV and the JetSki it would be nice if you provided a link to it.
Zero value to pumping water into the pack. First you really don't want to get near it. Second, water doesn't stop or even slow the failure either. Best is to just let it burn out and suppress any nearby damage. Luckily EV fires are about 1/10th the rate as ICE vehicle fires.
@@tesla_tap Such tech does exist. One solution is to inject some water such that it turns to steam and knocks out the fire then pump the battery full of water to cool the cells below ignition temperature. They use what looks like a long floor jack to punch a spike into the battery to inject the water.
very good point ,if someone is trapped in a car , and the battery is in run away , what are the procedures to combat that scenario.
@@danharold3087 - Steam and water do nothing to stop a lithium battery fire. Lithium burns just fine underwater. I think it consumes the oxgen out of water too, although not quite like tossing gasoline on a fire. Really need to just let it burn out on it's own.
@@andrewashmore8000 - While even in a serious accident, it's rare for the battery to catch fire, if it does, you have about 5 minutes before it really gets going. It's not explosive like a gasoline car fire that in a serious enough accident can almost instantly explode into the cabin.
These accidents that have a fire (ICE and EV) are so extreme the passengers are usually killed before anything happens. One case I know of the car was going 120 mph on a street, lost control and the thief sliced the car in half as it hit a light pole. The EV did catch fire after a few minutes, but the thief was ejected and was killed.
And what happens if moisture is able to enter the battery? Will the foam Akt like a sponge and suck it all up?
Do you think 46120 batteries would fit? There are a lot of manufacturers working on 46xx cells:
4680:
28Ah 278 Wh/kg (BAK)
26Ah 300 Wh/kg (EVE)
23.35Ah 244 Wh/kg (Tesla)
15.3Ah 146 Wh/kg (BYD)
4695:
35Ah 290 Wh/kg (Sunwoda)
33Ah 270 Wh/kg (BAK)
32.5Ah 280 Wh/kg (EVE)
30Ah 270 Wh/kg (Sunwoda)
29.7Ah 260 Wh/kg (EVE)
300 Wh/kg (CALB)
300 Wh/kg (SVOLT)
310 Wh/kg (Gotion)
320 Wh/kg (REPT)
350 Wh/kg (EVE)
46110:
350 Wh/kg (EVE)
300 Wh/kg (CALB)
46120:
Samsung
The gap between the pack and interior floor and the open space in the battery together leaves plenty of space for 2 rows of 4680 cells. 123kWh x2 makes 246kWh which is plenty to get the promised 500+ mi range. 225kWh is my personal minimum for towing.
A real lot. Tesla is setting a new standard.
Is BMW already in this list? I thought they work with CATL?
Thanks for some great info. 350 watts per kg would suggest that the Cybertruck battery could soon be >160kWh if they switch to 4695 batteries or similar
BMW 4695 and 46120
that looks very serviceable!
This battery pack looks like repair hell. Also, it doesn't take much for the vehicle to detect that something went wrong: the HVDC system is continuously monitored for leakage. If water bridges anything HVDC to chassis, you get told to GTFO as soon as excessive leakage current is detected since there may only be one layer of protection left between you and 350-900Vdc.
It's repair hell because it's not repairable and it would just be recycleable.
@@Resist4 They removed an entire layer of recycling from the module. Conversions cannot use junk vehicles, and the modules as they deplete would need to be rebuilt in order to be used in the secondary application.
@@ronaldking1054 And as I said they are not repairable. Just recyclable, meaning the components would be broken down to extract the lithium and other metals.
@@Resist4 And you failed to understand when they stated that to break it down to cell level, Munro Live lost money.
@@ronaldking1054 you don’t have to break it down to the battery. You deep tank the whole pack and melt the metals to be separated, even Sandy said that in a video.
Man can you imagine the repair costs ? Everything glued together-