And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence. For Adam was formed first, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression. I Timothy 2:12-14
@@heyjaja72 Paul is the messenger of God and filled with the spirit of God the holy spirit which is God. Do you really think verses 12-14 are just from Paul?
Holy Spirit, You are the One who reveals all truth and righteousness, I earnestly ask You to help us to know what we need to know about this topic so that we can operate in love, unity and power winning lost souls and be about the Father's business while it is still day in Jesus' name, amen.
He did already & in fact he wrote a book so you could read it in print. No matter how much you may wish it wasn't the case women can not preach or teach men in the church & up until the last 100 years it was not in question in any christian church, no where in church history will you find it in any early church. It's a closed topic for those who read the Bible and allow it to guide them without prejudice or bias
Lol, I forgot about this conversation until someone commented today. I truly believe this is one of the things we must choose to agree to disagree about...May the Lord bless us all! 🙏🏽
How can you read Scripture that SPECIFICALLY states I do not permit a woman to teach. And then backs it up with the Adam, Eve reference!? Paul was SUPER clear.
Exactly.. but if a man has 5 wives and wants to be a pastor, then they will follow what scripture says without interpretation and tell him "no, he must be the husband of 1 wife" but when it comes to woman, they find ways to interpret the verse to mean something else
How does one assume that Paul’s letter to a ONE specific church is a blanket to ALL churches when addressing a specific issue that the specific church was dealing with(which was new convert women who were former priestesses of Diana, who then tried to take authority over the church Paul established). He literally refers to Phoebe as a deacon, yet many churches today would refuse to allow her to be one. It’s not simply black and white. It does seem clear that the role of a overseer(lead/head pastor) should be a man. But churches have multiple pastors below the head pastor in many cases.
1 Corinthians 14:37 [37]If anyone thinks himself to be a prophet or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things which I write to you are the commandments of the Lord.
Yes indeed. So clear that it is obvious that Priscilla sinned grievously in participating in instructing Apollos in Acts 18, also in Ephesus incidentally.
This particular verse is challenging in day to day faith especially in today's culture. Yet it seems clear to me, that it's a general rule, and not as you suggest, and I'll have to order my life by my understanding and you by yours. I am glad you stated what your shared was your opinion. I'd guess that point applies beyond this video, to all your own content, and also every one of my comments, however fiercely, or sincerely we hold our own beliefs and doctrines.
Indeed. 1Tim 3:1 This saying is reliable: if anyone has a goal to be a supervisor in the church, they want a good thing. 1Tim 3:2 So the church’s supervisor must be without fault. They should be faithful to their spouse, sober, modest, and honest. They should show hospitality and be skilled at teaching. 1Tim 3:3 They shouldn’t be addicted to alcohol or a bully. Instead they should be gentle, peaceable, and not greedy. 1Tim 3:4 They should manage their own household well-they should see that their children are obedient with complete respect, 1Tim 3:5 because if they don’t know how to manage their own household, how can they take care of God’s church? 1Tim 3:6 They shouldn’t be new believers so that they won’t become proud and fall under the devil’s spell. 1Tim 3:7 They should also have a good reputation with those outside the church so that they won’t be embarrassed and fall into the devil’s trap.
@@Axnzo There are a lot of assumptions involved: The assumption that "teaching" and "shepherding" are tied together; they are in Eph. 4, but not in Rom. 12 or 1 Cor. 12. The assumption that "authenteo" means "have authority over"; it doesn't, it means something more like "domineer." The assumption that being a pastor is largely about "authority" in the first place.
HONEST? author = father not fat-her author (n.) mid-14c., auctor, autour, autor "father, creator, one who brings about, one who makes or creates" someone or something
God clearly led my husband and me to a fellowship with a female leader, her gift is more a prophet than a pastor but God definitely speaks to and through her. I want to follow God's Word but then it seems the Spirit doesn't care too much about the male and female distinction...God has blessed me through many other godly women in ministry, how can this be?
I agree! In fact I (a woman) got radically saved and called into ministry to teach and preach when I was certainly not looking for that calling or even knew what it was. Who am I to deny what The Lord has called me to do!
Women, as Paul said are permitted to teach the children and young women, also to give specific warnings or messages as directed by God or an elder; however, it explicitly prohibits teaching men. There is an order. Governmental, similar to the military. It is not about value, it is about Godly order and design, by rank. It begins with the home. God; Adam; Eve. It doesn't matter what we feel, or are told. Only truth given by the Lord . Emmanuel, YAH, ABBA Father. May God bless you
Kat Kerr we are a war spiritual war and Jesus is helping me get through it God is sending me messages through his people this is a wow you are right about me so right pastor Sudra East Indian pastor said the same thing about me as you did WOW
Indeed but bit. mist b ne. taken I kto context a d examined with other scripture. Example Calvinism has a wrong talked on the scripture. often we see people taking the Bible and cutting it up it is not to be read that way. You would not take a letter from a friend and cut it up. People often use scripture incorrectly. e.g. I can do all things etc. this is a Bible verse that talks about economics and being satisfied with your current state of finances. Paul could be rich or poor. and still prosper. Knock on the door is another verse used out of context and is used for evangelism but does not have anything to do with evangelism as it is addressed to a church. You are neither hot or cold to the church in Lao dicea is a simili that they are useless. Hot drinks are good as well as cold but no one likes tepid drinks and they spit them out. etc. etc. etc. I think what Dr. Brown says may be valid. there are risks with women Pastors to go down a too gentle way of overcompensate. Submission we are all under some authrity
Wow. It's both hilarious and tragic seeing how the patriarchalists get their panties in a painful wad over the idea that Scripture treats men and women as equals.
How come ppl always changing God's Word or adding to it for the culture or these loose women in the Church? Well, this is what the Bible says in 1 Timothy among other places:11 A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. 15 But women will be saved through childbearing-if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.
@Hey Jaja u ever read 1st Corinthians. Chapter 12. Has a list. Paul wrote this to brothers and sisters in Christ. And Paul in Roman's ch12..also has a list. And again to both. And he said for those to lead to lead. Again to both brothers and sisters in Christ.
@@zerosparky9510 sorry but you didn't give a Verse. You gave YOUR interpretation my friend.. Paul wouldn't say a woman can lead if he was going to make a 180 statement later on.
Where does it say in the Bible " if the woman is under Godly authority they can teach." Teaching in context here is in the Church. Not on the street as an evangelist preaching the word - like in Acts with Priscilla and Aquila.
“Women-“- soul, “men” - spirit. Paul speaks in parables and uses the hierarchy of marriage example to explain that our weaker vessel is to submit to our Spirit. We all are spirit beings with a soul. Some only understand carnal, outside of the cup, but we are called to walk by the spirit not the flesh.
Ppl who go against God's character is the one's putting him in a box, God is who he is , yet ppl want to change his character, and judgments to fit their ideas, now that's putting God in your own personal little box.
No the bible says many times they are to silence in the church they are to teach children and young women.The bible is clear to that at least 15 times it says it
how can they be silent in church but also teach young women and children there? 🤔 and how do you reconcile silence with paul's acknowledgement of female leaders?
k h a l i l take it up with God it says 18 times in bible for the women not to speak in the pulpit God is not going to speak against himself move on and God bless
@@lynnmottram2904 you came to a discussion forum to tell christians not to discuss the topic the video is about and to take it up with God. are you sure you're interested in believers finding clarity through scripture or in you just talking (down) at ppl like a pharisee?
k h a l i l i study 14 hours a day I love God and Jesus I have my own UA-cam and teach you come to my UA-cam HARBINGERS OF JESUS CHRIST I'm on at 2:00 pm Moutan time
Dr brown I feel this time you are wrong. The Word is clear, woman should not teach in church. You giving a progressive response!! Did woman teach in the temple or synagogue during Paul time?
@@MsSongbird716 1 Cor. 14:34-36 (but read chapters 12-14 all together for context; as there were no chapter breaks in Paul's first letter to the church of God which is at Corinth) It's about God's order and God's design, not what we think should change as our world changes. Are we to follow God or our own beliefs (Issaiah 55, specifically verses 7 thru 8, but once again read the whole chapter)
@@kstrudel2234 Hi! I think I'm just going to have to consider that this is one of those things that many of us won't agree upon. I'm ok with that. God bless you!
@@kstrudel2234 I have peace with God concerning this topic. The truth that I receive and embrace is that the Father is not against a woman teaching in church. My pastor is a woman and she is an anointed teacher of God's word. I appreciate that you encouraged me to pursue truth, likewise...As we all should! May we all continue in the privilege of seeking the Father and may He reveal to us the things we desire and need to know. Be blessed! 💗
This man took many places in scripture out of context and he is just using these places to justify his woman pastor friends that he has, I love my sisters in Christ I have seen gotta use many women for his glory but just because you feel that you’re being called to be a pastor does not mean that your pastor, just because you can speak and prepare a sermon nicely does not mean you’re anointed. You can’t just take a little bit of the Bible and practice it at church, you can’t exclude church practice from the New Testament just because you don’t fully understand what it means. We are in the last days Christian, you need to stop watering down the word of God, you need to stop getting your ears tickled by false teachers telling you what you want to hear, you need to start enduring sound doctrine and applying it to your life, because Christ is coming soon.
Absolutely. I can’t believe one can read the specific instructions from the Holy Spirit via Paul on woman teachers and say anything contrary. Paul even backed it up the reasoning with the Adam/Eve reference. And still people cave to society pressure. “For the time will come when people will not tolerate sound doctrine and accurate instruction [that challenges them with God’s truth]; but wanting to have their ears tickled [with something pleasing], they will accumulate for themselves [many] teachers [one after another, chosen] to satisfy their own desires and to support the errors they hold, and will turn their ears away from the truth and will wander off into myths and man-made fictions [and will accept the unacceptable].” 2 Timothy 4:3-4 AMP
Excellent. So when Acts 2 emphatically shows men and women carrying out the Great Commission on equal terms, you're fine with it. When Acts 18 shows a man and woman teaching Apollos in their house-church as equal partners, you're fine with it. When 1 Cor. 12.13, Col. 3.11, and esp. Gal. 3.28 show that the old hierarchal boundaries no longer hold in Christ and in the Spirit, you're fine with that. When Col. 4.15 shows a woman overseeing a house-church, you're fine with that.
The context of Galatians 3, no male or female, is about salvation, not ministry roles. Also Deborah wasn't appointed by God to have teaching oversight in the temple, i.e. she wasn't a Levite priest. Instead she was a prophetess and judge. As a judge her role was in the legal system, as such we can't use her as evidence for women to have teaching authority in the church. I'm not saying they can't, I'm just saying we can't appeal to Deborah because she wasn't a teacher of God's Word 🙂🙏
As prophetess and judge, is it possible that at times she would have had the task to instruct the people in the righteousness of God. Just in my personal opinion, it would be difficult to lead, unify, encourage and motivate a people to stay aligned with God's will without ever teaching them anything...it just goes together.
@@MsSongbird716 Hello 🙂. As a prophetess she was responsible for delivering God's message, this didn't give her oversight or headship or a leader's responsibility over anyone. A prophet just delivers God's message. Similarly, as a judge she presided over court cases, e.g. disputes between people, e.g. my donkey fell into his well and he did nothing about it, I want recompense. Serving as a judge in a court of law is worlds apart from the church elder's responsibility of having teaching oversight of God's flock. It's impossible to draw exact comparisons between women in the OT and NT because we're under a different Covenant now 🙂. Only the priests back then had the job of interpreting the Law (God's Word) to Israel as far as I'm aware. My current view, though I'm open to correction, is that women can teach women; and women can teach men in a non-authoritative/non-leadership manner (e.g. Priscilla helped Apollos to understand the Scriptures better). But women can't function as elders, i.e. the main leaders in church because that would put her in a headship role - being responsible for the spiritual welfare of the men; but the Bible clearly gives that headship or oversight role to the husband. 1 Corin 11 says that God the Father is head of Jesus, but Jesus isn't less important than Father. They just have different roles. It's the same in church. Women aren't to function as heads. This doesn't make them less important, they just have a different role to fulfill. I'm always open to correction but that's my current understanding. God bless 🙂.
@@marisademore468 thank for your response. I will think on these things and be prayerful still about them, searching the scriptures for more understanding. It is very difficult to accept that many of the women pastors/teachers are not of God when their ministries are very fruitful in discipling and equipping others in their Christian walk. I sit still and ask God about stuff like this...like is this what He means when He says He uses foolish things to confound the wise...or that the letter kills but the Spirit gives life..or he that has an ear let him hear what the Spirit is saying to the church. Many would think that this issue is cut and dry but it's not, not for me. I can't see the godly purpose for teaching being hindered by gender. And believe me I get why that would be quite touchy in today's world! I guess some things we will never know until we get to heaven...🤔
@@MsSongbird716 Hi, I know what you mean, I struggled with these issues for years. I found more freedom and understanding when I began learning how to keep the Scriptures in context, we need to know what the original author first intended the letter or book to mean when he first penned it. In context, Paul in 1 Timothy appeals to Scripture to prohibit women serving as elders. Paul points us to Genesis, so the prohibition is not a cultural thing. When I studied Scripture and came to see that each husband is head of their wife, it became impossible to understand how a woman could take the leadership role in church because that would make her the head of her husband. Also, if a wife cannot serve as head (spiritual guardian) over her husband, God isn't going to give that responsibility to a single lady. The thought that thousands of our sisters might be in/are in (?) the wrong role is hard to comprehend; but when it comes to fruit from 'ministry', only God really knows eternal fruit from temporary appearances. I'll be praying for you sis and asking the Lord to give us both more understanding - and to keep us pursuing the work He's called us to. God's blessings to you in Jesus, Marisa x
Gods Word says women cannot be pastors or teach men in the church. There is no debate. It goes back to Genesis. When women and children are leading its Gods judgement.
If it were about education, why did 1 Timothy 2:12 then follow with referencing the order of creation between Adam and Eve, and Eve being deceived? Doesn't that mean it transcends the church at Ephesus?
Nope! Nice try Dr Brown, but it’s best to take the clear directive from Paul as he gives the reason back in Genesis. Roles in the church were specific and the qualifications were explicit.
"Back in Genesis," men and women had full equality until the Fall. Those of us in Christ the Second Adam, partakers in the New Creation, should not take the Fallen state as the norm to which we aspire. Certainly that was not Paul's point in 1 Tim. 2:13-14, because Paul was not an exegetical imbecile.
She was a prophetess AND a judge over Israel, I'm sure at one point or another that required her to teach and instruct those who the LORD trusted her to lead.
Was there an actual answer? Because I missed it. I heard the proof positive that examples of other names women were to teach but Paul the apostle also taught in parable form to say that our flesh or weaker vessel should not have authority over our spirit man. We are to walk by the spirit and not fulfill the lists of the flesh. One would need to know what flesh means. Flesh is the covering or house for the spirit. Anyone who observes the outside of the cup is being carnally minded and that is death because we are to be spiritually minded which is life. Paul uses the example of marriage hierarchy to explain how we are to walk by the spirit and not by our emotions, mind and will using our weaker vessel which is our soul.
I love your teachings, Dr.Brown, but there is no proof, not even 1 verse in the Word, that women were teaching God's word to men in the church service or being pastors! They were prophecying, praying, teaching other women (Titus 2:3-5), sharing the gospel (Mary Magdalene did after Jesus's resurrection), but not teaching authoritativly or leading a church🤷♀️ I wish they did, but we can't twist God's word🤷♀️ And Priscilla wasn't teaching, that greek word doesn't say that she was doing Bible teaching as some women do it today and not in church service! 1 Timothy 2:12 is clear: "I do not permit a woman TO TEACH (give Biblical teaching) or to ASSUME AUTHORITY over a man (lead a church)" I believe they can do anything until the Biblical role of man and woman is not twisted. The man is the leader, the woman is his helper. That's why women can't lead a church or teach from the Bible (assume authority), bcs it is not their God's given role! For the husband is the head of the wife even as Christ is the head of the church, his body, and is himself its Savior. Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit in everything to their husbands. Ephesians 5:21-24 Likewise, wives, be subject to your own husbands, so that even if some do not obey the word, they may be won without a word by the conduct of their wives, when they see your respectful and pure conduct. 1 Peter 3:1-2
Depends on what you consider "proof." The plain sense of Col. 4:15 is that Nympha had responsibility (oversight) for the church in her home. "Teaching authoritatively" is a made-up expression. "The man is the leader, the woman is the helper" is a man-made doctrine. There is no substantial difference in sense between "ektithemi" and "didasko" in the Apollos account. Even in the assembly, potentially "each one," including women, can have a "teaching." (1 Cor. 14.26) In 1 Tim. 2.12, "assume authority" is better than "have authority" or "exercise authority," but "domineer" is probably closer. Wives should submit to their husbands as an example of all believers submitting to each other -- Eph. 5.21. If husbands are to "lead," it is in being even more loving and self-giving, inverting the patriarchal power structure of that time. The context of the instructions in 1 Pet. is evangelism and apologetics. Wives "submitting" there is a strategy for winning over an infidel husband, and the surrounding culture.
My understanding is that any instruction that Jesus, Paul or any other Apostle would give that was followed by a specific reason for the instruction, can obviously not be interpreted any other way than what was given. E.g. 1 Tim 2 passages on women's roles were grounded and reasoned in Genesis (God's creational ordinances), Paul was referring to God's original order of the ministry of teaching and authority.. not some problem that referred to unruly women in the Ephesian church as many would suggest.
I did a short essay on the judge Deborah. According to scripture, if a man would not accept a judge's verdict, he was to be executed. If God cared about gender, all the judges would have been men. I can paste the essay here if requested. Now Deborah, a prophetess, the wife of Lappidoth, was judging Israel at that time. She used to sit under the palm tree of Deborah between Ramah and Bethel in the hill country of Ephraim; and the sons of Israel went up to her for judgment. -excerpt Judges 4 (I didn't watch this video, but am familiar with these matters.)
She wasn't leading the church and thet was not the norm. If God didn't care about genders, he wouldn't have had ONLY ONE female leader. He also wouldn't have had roles according to gender
@@heyjaja72 I don't think you fully understand what being a judge in Israel was about. So if God does something just once, whatever it may be, then we are not to pay any attention to it? That makes no sense. I guess we're done. I don't know what else to say, unless you have a question.
@@8784-l3b I do have a question.. can you name any female elders or leaders in NT? AND WHAT is your interpretation of this verse here. Isiah 3:12 As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths It seems Deborah in leadership was judgement on Israel, not the rule. Would you agree??
I agree with most of what you said. Especially that women should be in their right place under (Godly) men's authority. Also, that women are valuable in many ways including prophesying, youth leadership, Bible teaching etc. But in no way do I believe a woman should be the lead pastor of a church of women AND men, or be that high up in leadership in any capacity (say, an all women's church with no male leadership. That does not align with God's design either.) I don't believe women in this high of authority were called by God. If they were, God would have changed His mind from the time of Paul to now, and God does not change. I believe with all my heart this comes from the Holy Spirit. Because when I came back to the Lord as an adult, I saw nothing wrong with it. I wasn't taught against it. And I didn't know of these verses that speak against women in high leadership. Nor did I discern between false teachers and true ones. But over time, my discernment grew, and some famous and extremely wealthy pastors began to give me a sick feeling in the pit of my stomach. That's not to say I didn't believe in financially supporting those that lead us through Christ, but many are clearly frauds. Again, I wasn't taught that women shouldn't be lead pastors, and I didn't think they shouldn't be; there was no reason but the Holy Spirit that over a short time, I was put off by women pastors. My stomach was behaving the same way as with obvious false teachers who are in ministry only to get filthy rich. From what I understand about Debra, she was a judge and prophetis, not a lead pastor or however that would've been termed in those days. But where I really disagree with what you said, is that Paul said what he said because of the times in which they lived. I don't believe at all the Bible is sprinkled with personal opinion that is only applicable for that time. It's the living word of God, so every word should be able to speak to all generations. The eternal Holy Spirit inspired the words written, not men's personal opinions based on that generation. If it were, the Bible would not be flawless and wouldn't be applicable to all people of any time period.
Paul the apostle also spoke in parables like Yahusha. Parables are considered coverings. Like a shell to encase something that is to be protected. Reconsider that our weaker vessel is our soul that has emotions, a will and a mind. Our spirit man is how we are to be led by the spirit but if we are being led by our soul which is our weaker vessel then we are not letting our spirit rule us. Sometimes we call that “ our gut feeling” and we instead choose wrongly or can be deceived by trickery to believe what we see or hear based on outward appearances called “the flesh.” Many times we want to cut corners, save money or out of convenience choose to believe a replacement of the original or master and settle fir sub par but in the long run we end up with more problems and more heartache when we choose wrongly . This is why we must discern rightly and avoid imposters. Not saying anything about anyone here. We all must seek the spirit to get wisdom and understanding because “many twist Paul’s words to their own destruction.”
Reconsider Woman= aka the weaker vessel, but in parable form can be construed as our soul and Man= spirit which we are to be led by our spirit and not the actual fleshly covering or face value literal man. Our spirit and soul are one like marriage it cannot be torn asunder. The fleshly example is human man and woman but it’s a parable.
Paul uses the word I which is ego in Greek he did not use God which is Theos. Huge difference. Furthermore Most people think that Deborah was only a prophetess she was also the leader. Read chapters Judges 4& 5. In Malachi 3 :6 God is quoted as saying For I am the Lord, I change not.. And in Numbers 23:19 it is written God is not a man, that he should lie, Therefore if God allowed Deborah to lead /rule over Israel and tell Barak what to do and Barak was afraid and would only as told if she were present at the battle and God allowed that, then scripturally, God has no problem with women teaching in church.
If you accept the usual but dubious translation of 1 Tim. 3 and Tit. 1, along with the (reasonable) assumption that pastors, elders, and overseers are essentially equivalent. Payne, Bartlett, and Williams believe the CEV and CEB translations are more accurate.
@@deniselong6102 That's a silly question. Like many on your side, you talk as if God had directly announced that certain particular translations are "right." He did not. Scholars like Payne and Bartlett are as qualified as anyone to opine on matters of translation and interpretation.
The passage is very clear in what it says, where as the passages you use are not exactly clear in what they say. In scripture unclear passages must submit to other passages that are clear in their meaning. Like a woman must not teach a man. what can be clearer than that? You say Paul only said these things to this church because of the disorder in this congregation yet you have no scriptures to back up this opinion so it it is just an opinion. Me I prefer to listen to Gods word ( a woman shall not be permitted to teach a man) rather than the opinions of foolish men ( this was word just for that time and place and no longer applies to us) Stop tickeling itching ears and repent
@@MsSongbird716 No worries sister, I appreciate the conversation. 1 Timothy 2:12-14 the Apostle does not allow a woman to teach men or have authority over a man. Due to Creation not culture, women do have a role, for the most part women are the backbone of the congregation. Leadership is male, and if a woman is to teach she should do so under male headship.
34 Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says. 35 If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church.[b] 36 Or did the word of God originate with you? Or are you the only people it has reached? Who wrote Corinthians? Answer: Paul, commanded by God, Inspired by the Holy Spirit. I'm sorry Doctor but you are clearly misleading people with your own private interpretation on this issue.
Exactly, people think it was just Paul speaking but they forgot Paul is filled with the Holy Spirit which is God. He is a messenger of God and God is the one that gives Paul the messages.
So in 1 Cor. 11, Paul gave instructions about women praying and prophesying in the church, then a few chapters later, basically said, "Yeah, what I said back there? I was drunk. Forget it. Women should just shut up."
Acts 2:17 - And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: Acts 18:26 - And he began to speak boldly in the synagogue: whom when Aquila and Priscilla had heard, they took him unto them, and expounded unto him the way of God more perfectly.
@@KarolinaJ94 She was listed before her husbands name. She taught in different places. Teaching was not only in temples but in homes because there were church meetings held in homes due to the persecution. Teaching is teaching. She was a teacher.
@@KarolinaJ94 Romans 16:4 Paul commends Priscilla and Aquilla for risking their lives for the gospel. "They risked their lives for me. Not only I but all the churches of the Gentiles are grateful to them." They taught in Ephesus and they traveled with Paul Acts 18:18. they taught Apollo in the home but it does not mean that is the only place.
@@KarolinaJ94 their home was a house church see Romans 16:3-5 Greet Priscilla and Aquila, my co-workers in Christ Jesus.4 They risked their lives for me. Not only I but all the churches of the Gentiles are grateful to them. ***5 Greet also the church that meets at their house. Greet my dear friend Epenetus, who was the first convert to Christ in the province of Asia.
It should just be common biblical knowledge, that being used by the Spirit and exercising one of the nine spiritual gifts during a church service is much, much different than someone being used in the capacity of one or more of what is referred to as the five fold ministry. A women being used in one of the vocal gifts is way, way , different than being said to be a teacher, pastor, evangelist………….
This Man clearly said his own idea not the Bible idea , don't say anything different from the Bible, say what the Bible says so as to be great in heaven Matt 5:19
The women at the well shared the gospel, kind of like she street preached, but after the men are believers I don’t believe the women should be teaching them anymore. Reaching the lost outside the church seems good but once a man has the Holy spirit, His leader is Christ. If I put bible verses on my car am I not teaching men as well as women? Or if If I share the gospel with my male family members I am teaching them. So I believe this would primarily apply to women not teaching in the church or in Christian settings where Christian men are available to teach. If you want to street preach women, or hand out tracks and share the gospel, do it, and do it prayerfully!!!
It would be nice to have the actual scripture posted when referencing so that we do not have to leave this thread to go search for what your comment actually says.
@@JEvrist Yeah. But many of us are in the habit of having our Bible software open in another window and readily switch back and forth. The reference is to deacon Phoebe, the patron/benefactor/protector/leader and the courier and expounder of the Epistle to the Romans.
@@Norrin777Radd The Gospel was for the Jews first and only passed on to the gentiles when the Jews rejected Him. He could have included Jewish women as they are still Jews, but He did not...
Glad you have a view. But Gods view is that women are not to ever be in authority over men period. Listen to you or the Bible? I will stick with the Bible which is very clear on this. But I’m not looking for clicks or money
Excellent. So when Acts 2 emphatically shows men and women carrying out the Great Commission on equal terms, you're fine with it. When Acts 18 shows a man and woman teaching Apollos in their house-church as equal partners, you're fine with it. When 1 Cor. 12.13, Col. 3.11, and esp. Gal. 3.28 show that the old hierarchal boundaries no longer hold in Christ and in the Spirit, you're fine with that. When Col. 4.15 shows a woman overseeing a house-church, you're fine with that.
But all I see is a very large amount of women who don’t know what they are talking about. It’s all feelings or fake tongues and prophets. I think it’s a mistake. Read Isaiah 3
Full of contradiction and lacking full Scripture texts. You say that husband are the head of the wife, yet use the fact that Priscilla is mentioned first before her husband as if that makes her over her husband, so you all see the contradiction? Is he the head over his wife only in the home or if she is out and about she can become His head? Not to mention that they held church in their home. So as long as she has church in the home, she can be the head of her husband?
@Norrin777Radd What is your meaning of head? 1 Corinthians 11:3 King James Version 3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.
@Norrin777Radd The word "head" (kephalē) in the Bible can have multiple meanings, including authority, leader, and superior rank. In some passages, it can also signify a servant leadership role, such as a husband's role with his wife. For example, in Ephesians 5:22-24, Paul uses the head to represent the husband or Christ, and the body to represent the wife or church. This is similar to other texts, both biblical and extrabiblical, where the head is in authority over the body.
@@MyRoBeRtBaKeR That's one opinion. Scholars like Phil Payne and Andrew Bartlett make the case that in the contexts of 1 Cor. 11 and Eph. 5, "head" implies "source," not "authority." Witherington notes that "head" can imply preeminence, as in being at the "head of the line," such that in Eph. 5 the husband undertakes the greater acts of service and self-sacrifice.
@Norrin777Radd That's right, source. Since the woman came from the man, the man came from his source, God. This is why the woman is the man's glory. That would take after him, but first, the man is the image and glory of God, that takes after Him. The man, Adam, was the intercessor between God and man before the fall. Now the man, Jesus Christ, after the fall, is the intercessor between God and man, 1 Timothy 2 The man and woman represent the relationship between God and man, man being the bride of the Husbandman God. Just as man is to submit to God, the woman is to submit to the man in the Lord. Not her boss, not her manager, not the stranger passing, etc, for this is not in the Lord but in the world. This then extends to the husband and wife, for the wife is to submit in all things to her husband and the husband that first submits himself to God. And he will love her as God loves the Church and give Himself for her. The truth is in the very beginning, and God changes not. God told Adam, "Because you submitted to the wife, which is worshipping the creature over the Creator, hearkned unto her rather than to God, God cursed the ground/creature/everything that was made" See, Adam submitted to his wife, the woman, and that is when sin entered the world through him, and his disobedience to God's will. God is the man's head, God is the source of the man. Just as the man is the head of the woman and the source of the woman. Therefore, they submit to their heads, and it is then when the head means power to rule over, invested in him by his Head, God. Genesis 3:16 "..and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee."
One thing to remember: There's not one single woman of large prominence in the Bible. Not a one. Taking an apostle aside to refine his understanding is not someone of prominence or a leader. People in the Bible of prominence: Abraham, Jacob, Isaac, Joshua, David, Solomon, Isaiah, the disciples of Jesus and Paul. That's 20 people and there are many others of lower significance that were male. Many. Not a one was female. This is a difficult topic for women of Christian belief to reconcile in this day and age when promises of equality are inundating us on a daily basis. Those are empty promises. I have yet to find a woman anywhere near as happy and especially looking fulfilled at her job than around her children. Most look like they are only doing that job out of necessity. As if any sane woman would be not missing a single moment of her children's miraculous growth. It is rather instinctual after all. Even though feminism would have us ignore our natural instincts. Another cause of this problem is our insatiable need to buy stuff. Stuff we buy that we don't need and can't afford with money we don't have to impress people we hardly know. Its a vicious circle that brings huge profits to faceless corporations who couldn't care less if you live or die as long as you buy their stuff.
I'll teach you what the Bible directly says. Acts 2:16-21 [16]But this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel: [17]‘And it shall come to pass in the last days, says God, That I will pour out of My Spirit on all flesh; Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, Your young men shall see visions, Your old men shall dream dreams. [18]And on My menservants and on My maidservants I will pour out My Spirit in those days; And they shall prophesy. [19]I will show wonders in heaven above And signs in the earth beneath: Blood and fire and vapor of smoke. [20]The sun shall be turned into darkness, And the moon into blood, Before the coming of the great and awesome day of the Lord. [21]And it shall come to pass That whoever calls on the name of the Lord Shall be saved.’ Here we must ask ourselves who the servants of the Lord are. 2 Timothy 2:20-26 [20]But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and silver, but also of wood and clay, some for honor and some for dishonor. [21]Therefore if anyone cleanses himself from the latter, he will be a vessel for honor, sanctified and useful for the Master, prepared for every good work. [22]Flee also youthful lusts; but pursue righteousness, faith, love, peace with those who call on the Lord out of a pure heart. [23]But avoid foolish and ignorant disputes, knowing that they generate strife. [24]And a servant of the Lord must not quarrel but be gentle to all, able to teach, patient, [25]in humility correcting those who are in opposition, if God perhaps will grant them repentance, so that they may know the truth, [26]and that they may come to their senses and escape the snare of the devil, having been taken captive by him to do his will. Conclusion: Not only does it say that servants of the Lord are Teachers, but also it explains how a servant of the Lord must be. It is also explains how to call upon the Name of the Lord, thus being also done by the servants.
@@kyalove7950 I wasn't ignoring women in the Bible. There were great, strong, loyal women all through the Bible. Many were wives of the greatest men in the Bible, others did God's work on their own. But that's not what my post was about. My post showed that the most prominent, most influential people in the Bible were ALL men. You can ignore that of course but your life will not be as fulfilling if you do as a woman. That doesn't mean all women are destined for marriage and the white picket fence in the suburbs with 2.5 kids. But for the vast majority, that will give by far the most satisfaction. Look at women's faces around happy children. That is the look of contentment and peace. Its very inspirational for a man to see this. We can't give women that kind of peace, only children and the pure way they interpret the world. When a child has some calamity (and young children have calamities every day it seems) they naturally seek who? Almost always the mother. Ask yourself why that is. You know its because women are far better at consoling and support than men (in general). Of course both are ideal but when we are at our wit's end, we tend to seek female arms to be wrapped up in. Women often support local churches in crucial ways. I believe the point is to focus on the work needed and the abilities we possess and how we can bring those two together. The point is, "What can we do for the Lord today?" Equality doesn't bring happiness or even contentment. A Bilbical man serves unceasingly. He serves God and his family. One can only serve if one listens to what is needed. The head of the country serves the entire country.
@@kyalove7950 I should add I have read many articles and books written by Christian women that are incredibly uplifting and inspirational - and Biblical. Is that what would be defined as "teaching"? I'm not sure. But when people write a book they take time to formulate their thoughts carefully, unlike when we speak and can often say things unintentionally or be easily misunderstood. Even some obvious false teachers have written some incredibly good material, usually in their early days before they got off track. We're simply far more likely to make mistakes when talking compared to writing (a book). I sure wouldn't discount Christian books that happened to be written by women!
@@jorgenath1454 many ppl read the verses you give, and Don't see , those verses are about judgment, God poors out his spirit on everyone in many places throughout scriptures as a judgment, it's his spirit of sleep that speaks in tongue's likened unto one with a familiar spirit, the spirit causes people to faint, and stager as if they are drunk, or on strong wine ( sound familiar ) judgment comes to the house of God first, then the whole world bc they choose to believe a lie. Your Bible verses are Speaking of the same thing Jesus was talking about when he said " and many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many " . It's also spoken of by Joel and Isiah, Matthew 24:11. Isaiah 3:12. Joel 2:30. Blood, fire and pillars of smoke, this is judgment bc ppl refuse to hear the truth, don't know scriptures, misread bc of the lack of knowledge of the word, don't know the whole of the word, don't be decieved there is no great revival before the end, but a great falling away. But speaking in tongue's is ceasing from your own words and speaking only that given by God as Jesus Christ did, a new tongue for those who once was sinners. Today what are witnessing is judgment, another Jesus being preached, another doctrine being taught ( which is scary close, not really another doctrine , but it is ) , and another SPIRIT at work which does do lying signs and wonders 2nd corinthians and 2 thessaloians 2: 3- 9. And even more detail in Isaiah ch 29 : v 4- 12 . This is that spirit of sleep God poors out bc of disobedience, it prophecies but in falsehood , it preaches but has another doctrine, it has another doctrine but close enough to truth that it decieves you, it has tongue's but it is from the dust of the ground, many are faint and drunk on it . Anyone can take scripture and make anything appear as if it is good, thing is that when you do so, then you make other scriptures a lie; therefore when we use scripture it has to align with ALL SCRIPTURES. These are the oracles of God who do this in this manner, bringing forth out of the old to confirm the new, and bringing forth new confirming it out of the old. Spirit poured out upon all flesh should be one key ( bc we walk not in the flesh ) fire, smoke, and blood should be your 2nd key ( no doubt that is judgment ) but mainly your biggest clue is Matthew ch 24 : vs 4-35. It is said plainly, clear as glass.
He never answered the question. I think we would all agre women are to teach and be leaders...that not in dispute. But in what role and function is at dispute. Scriptur is clear...no female padtors or preachers in church over entire congregation.
Where is this Scripture that you use for your points? First of all to teach men that they should allow a woman to put power over a man is blasphemous! 1 Corinthians 11
@Norrin777Radd Brother, you are suppressing the truth, that women can not hold power over a man's head, married or not, as stated in both 1 Corinthians 11:10 and 1 Timothy 2:12, and Ephesians 5:23 Power is "Covering." Man should not cover his Head, have power over his head, as he stands in for God, but the woman needs to have a covering[power] over her head because she is given to the man, who is the head of her. Head is also power, the Father being the Power/Head of Jesus, and Jesus the Head of the man and the man, the head of the woman. If a woman puts power over a man, she becomes his covering, and we know that man should not cover his head and have power over him. God is to teach the man, and the woman is to become one with the man. The man in the intercessor over man, with male and female, which is a figure of Him that is to come. It had been this way since the beginning, with Adam and Eve. God does not change, as Paul made evidently clear concerning divorce.
@@MyRoBeRtBaKeR Adam was never to be in a position of "power" over Eve. God saw Adam's lack, and created Eve as his "ezer kenegdo," strong partner and ally of similar kind. Man and woman were created equal in bearing God's image and likeness, and in having dominion over the rest of creation. That changed at the Fall, and we who are in Christ the Second Adam and are new creations should not look to the Fallen state as our standard.
@Norrin777Radd You suppress the truth in unrighteousness. God is a God of order and discipline. God is the HEAD of Christ, Christ is the Head of THE MAN, and THE MAN is the head of the woman, and the husband is also the head of the wife. This must be if all things are put back under Him as before the fall. God created all things in a chain of command, God, the Word, the man, and then the woman. The man was not MADE for the woman, but the woman was made FOR the man. The man, not the woman, is the image and glory of God, and the woman is the glory of the man. All things were created to be under His feet in order. When the serpent beguiled Eve and she did usurp power over Adam, giving him the fruit to eat, she came out from under her head, Adam. When Adam hearkened unto Eve and did eat from her hand the fruit that God told him he should not eat, Adam came out from under his head, Christ, the anointed Word of Spirit amd life. God, by His Word, created all things, and it will accomplish everything He sent It out to do, and when the Word was finished on the cross the Word went back to God, not void but did accomplish everything that He sent it to do. Mind you, this is only IN the Lord, out from under the Lord, the women can usurp power over a man. Such as business owners, managers, political leaders, etc. Yet under God, He has set all things by the good pleasure of His will, not our own. Since 117 For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man is true, then 1 Timothy 2:12 King James Version 12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence is true, and anyone that does not believe this is not His.
@@MyRoBeRtBaKeR You have silly ideas about "blasphemy" and "suppressing the truth." The latter is reminiscent of the old "twisting Scripture" bilge. Are you aware that from our perspective, your side is "suppressing the truth"? And where do you get this detailed hierarchy, especially equating "covering" with "power"?
Culturally the male has for the most part been the leader of the home since patriarchy had been the dominant form of family governance throughout the ages. But, and I say this with respect to Gods Holy word, patriarchy is not necessarily the ideal structure in the home. God has from creation desired that BOTH men and women co-lead together. Does it mean there can’t be various roles within the marriage? Of course it. However in the church what you find time and time again (especially Paul) is an accommodation to the culture with regard to female leaders. Dr Brown is correct in that yes, women for the most part were uneducated and of course were not able to teach. Why there was a group of women teaching all kinds of false teaching and heresy in Ephesus and Paul had to put the kaibosch on that right away as many newbie Christians were being led astray. Do I believe all of the offices of the church are open equally to men and women? YES but as with anything else anyone seeking the office of pastor for example needs to be of good character and educated. Thankfully these days women have equal opportunities to enter seminary as men do to prepare for the pastorate
Women were actually well educated by the time Paul wrote 1st and 2nd Timothy. If they lacked in education, Paul would have mentioned that they too could be elders once they gained further education. But unfortunately for you, that wasn’t what Paul wrote. His reasoning is due to the fall. Eve first sinned and then Adam. As a result, men are to be the only elders of the church at large.
No, Paul’s reference to Genesis was descriptive to the problem of women being deceived by false teaching/ bad advice, not prescriptive. He’s not saying women could not hold positions of authority because Eve was deceived, he was giving an example of what deception looked like. BTW I wasn’t saying no women were educated, but culturally it would not have been common. There were women in leadership positions in the church. Paul was pointing out a problem that was widespread not being universal. There is no Biblical case you can make for an all time every place prohibition of women pastors. None
@@shannorwood8802 Your reasoning is still irrelevant even if you are correct..although you are not correct. Paul is literally talking about how a church is to operate in the next few verses and he speaks of the roles of both men and women but intentionally excluded women from even having a chance at being an elder. Again, if he wanted women to be elders or eventually be elders, he would have given them qualifications…but he didn’t. Paul is either a woman hating bigot, or he is communicating the truth of what God desires for a church. He can’t be both.
@Josua Torres I’m not here to argue or to accuse you of being wrong as you have done with me. Most folk in my findings in non denominational churches read the Bible as if it were written to them. Here is my contention. The Bible was not written to us, it was written for us. The Scripture was contextualized for the cultural moment it was written. Paul was not a bigot. He was trying to protect the church from further unnecessary persecution by pushing an overrealized eschatology. Look up any scholarly piece on 1 Timothy or any passage in the NT and you’ll see what I’m saying is true. The problem is we’ve adopted an incorrect way to look at the Scriptures
@@shannorwood8802 You just accused me of being wrong as well so don’t think you are on some sort of moral high ground. New Testament scholars who think that scripture is ONLY applicable to churches in the 1st century are fools. Why not fully commit to your idea of “the bible isn’t written TO us” statement and say the the gospel doesn’t apply TO us either??? You wouldn’t do that because you know it’s foolish and just a slogan that modern evangelicals want people to use. That slogan doesn’t prove anything. It’s literally just a lame slogan. Paul also gave instructions with regards to elder qualifications in Tutus for yet again, ANOTHER church. Paul never gives any woman the chance of being an elder regardless of education or their theology and doctrine. It’s also important for me to note that he technically also excludes some men, hence the qualifications. But our modern feminist society only started having a problem with Pauls words for the last 60 years. I don’t think the problem is Pauls instructions, it’s the people of todays age. No one in any of the protestant Christian denominations had women elders up until recently.
im sorry but i have to get this out as i am dealing with it in my own church and it is like teaching obstinate children: it angers me how complicated people make simple statements in order to justify their own opinions. i note that in my experience it has always been worldliness that is the reasoning behind peoples confusticating of simple bible passages. for example, no one debates or provides complicated explanations for the verse, "Thou shalt not murder", however- minus the emotions- an equally simple statement, "i do not permit a women to teach", is subjected to such vigorous 'debate' which really is a way of going around about the houses and muddying the water enough to get away with having THEIR own opinion- which isnt actually there own- accepted (often to avoid having to offend others: FYI Jesus was very offensive to ungodly people: not because what he was saying was offensive, but because of how warped their own minds/ hearts were. for example the argument, "women were less educated in pauls time" is such a weak argument that even hearing it- especially from Dr brown- whom though i disagree with on a lot of points on the topic, was very impressed with his arguments surrounding the debate between cessationism and continuationism- makes me angry: and if you dont understand why that is, i would encourage you to read your Bible more often, as it is founded in the notion that this society is closer to God than the one God shaped not only at the beginning of creation, but also His creation of the Jewish nation after the Exodus from Egypt. Additionally, though it may not be apparently obvious, you have allowed the culture to shape your view as to what education is and also what right and wrong is. But hey, at least you did it by: smashing the patriarchy. shame on you.
@@HIMYMTR The Bible was written in the cultural stew of patriarchy and Paul has had to adapt his teaching to the culture. From the beginning, God called both men and women to equally share in the authority of cultivating the earth and subduing it. Patriarchy began as a symptom of the fall. 10 years of graduate research in Theology hardly makes me a simpleton.
Charity your question about women teacher...short answer is Paul is a false apostle, self proclaimed....he was never with Jesus and was never trained by Jesus !
@@cosmicproductionsone7112 Apostle, from Greek apostolos, “person sent”; Gk. apostolos [ajpovstolo"]). Envoy, ambassador, or messenger commissioned to carry out the instructions of the commissioning agent. So yes, Jesus chose disciples, who later became apostles, but based upon the definition, I would not disqualify Paul either.
@@MsSongbird716 great ! Keep on enjoying his misogynist writings n teachings which actually clash with gospel spirit and even christ teachings.....by believing in Paul as an apostle you are choosing to believe in the doctrine of paul called 'paulism' and not true christianity.....
@@cosmicproductionsone7112 I read the word of God and rely on His Spirit to reveal truth to me. I think each and every one of us has the tendency to filter what we read through our own lens which is why we need the Spirit of God to help us. If Paul is a misogynist, so is Moses, so is everyone who wrote scripture. Do you not sense a second class citizenship of women in the majority of scripture? I do. And I'm not offended because I know that that is NOT the heart of God! When I read/study the bible I understand that the times and cultural contexts are relevant to the writers and that helps me understand some things better and others not at all 🤷🏽♀️ Let's remember that sin has bent mankind in a selfish, rebellious way and we needed Jesus to come make the crooked places straight! That is the current "status" of every human being, from the male chauvinist stuck in a misogynistic mindset to the woman pastor who truly believes she's called to preach and teach. God has a purpose for us all to be conformed to the image of Christ and that's the bigger part for me. I try not to stumble and trip over every argument or debate. I feel we do way too much of majoring in the minors in today's Christianity...that being said, may we never cease praying to God for help in the time of need!
So, in your view, egalitarianism is "false," therefore we who promote it are "false teachers." And from our perspective, complementarianism and patriarchy are "false," therefore those who promote those views are "false teachers." "Everybody is a false teacher to somebody," right?
And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence. For Adam was formed first, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression. I Timothy 2:12-14
Paul gives the reason to his answer there.. anything else that's contrary is not of God
@@heyjaja72 Paul is the messenger of God and filled with the spirit of God the holy spirit which is God. Do you really think verses 12-14 are just from Paul?
“I do not”, this isn’t Paul speaking for God this is Paul having given a letter to Timothy on how he runs things
@@tofuman7456huh? That’s besides the point, what is the context of “I do not” the Bible is mostly descriptive yet people twist it to be prescriptive
Holy Spirit, You are the One who reveals all truth and righteousness, I earnestly ask You to help us to know what we need to know about this topic so that we can operate in love, unity and power winning lost souls and be about the Father's business while it is still day in Jesus' name, amen.
He did already & in fact he wrote a book so you could read it in print. No matter how much you may wish it wasn't the case women can not preach or teach men in the church & up until the last 100 years it was not in question in any christian church, no where in church history will you find it in any early church. It's a closed topic for those who read the Bible and allow it to guide them without prejudice or bias
@@Yelladog78 thank you.
AMEN. Thank you.
Lol, I forgot about this conversation until someone commented today. I truly believe this is one of the things we must choose to agree to disagree about...May the Lord bless us all! 🙏🏽
@@MsSongbird716 sadly there will be a penalty at the end for all who disagree with God's word.
How can you read Scripture that SPECIFICALLY states I do not permit a woman to teach. And then backs it up with the Adam, Eve reference!? Paul was SUPER clear.
Exactly.. but if a man has 5 wives and wants to be a pastor, then they will follow what scripture says without interpretation and tell him "no, he must be the husband of 1 wife" but when it comes to woman, they find ways to interpret the verse to mean something else
How does one assume that Paul’s letter to a ONE specific church is a blanket to ALL churches when addressing a specific issue that the specific church was dealing with(which was new convert women who were former priestesses of Diana, who then tried to take authority over the church Paul established).
He literally refers to Phoebe as a deacon, yet many churches today would refuse to allow her to be one. It’s not simply black and white. It does seem clear that the role of a overseer(lead/head pastor) should be a man. But churches have multiple pastors below the head pastor in many cases.
I Paul not God.????
1 Corinthians 14:37
[37]If anyone thinks himself to be a prophet or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things which I write to you are the commandments of the Lord.
Yes indeed. So clear that it is obvious that Priscilla sinned grievously in participating in instructing Apollos in Acts 18, also in Ephesus incidentally.
This particular verse is challenging in day to day faith especially in today's culture. Yet it seems clear to me, that it's a general rule, and not as you suggest, and I'll have to order my life by my understanding and you by yours. I am glad you stated what your shared was your opinion. I'd guess that point applies beyond this video, to all your own content, and also every one of my comments, however fiercely, or sincerely we hold our own beliefs and doctrines.
The Bible tell us the answer in the pastoral qualifications. 1 Timothy and Titus
Indeed.
1Tim 3:1 This saying is reliable: if anyone has a goal to be a supervisor in the church, they want a good thing.
1Tim 3:2 So the church’s supervisor must be without fault. They should be faithful to their spouse, sober, modest, and honest. They should show hospitality and be skilled at teaching.
1Tim 3:3 They shouldn’t be addicted to alcohol or a bully. Instead they should be gentle, peaceable, and not greedy.
1Tim 3:4 They should manage their own household well-they should see that their children are obedient with complete respect,
1Tim 3:5 because if they don’t know how to manage their own household, how can they take care of God’s church?
1Tim 3:6 They shouldn’t be new believers so that they won’t become proud and fall under the devil’s spell.
1Tim 3:7 They should also have a good reputation with those outside the church so that they won’t be embarrassed and fall into the devil’s trap.
So basically the teach is basically pastoring right?
And that's why they're not allowed to?
@@Axnzo There are a lot of assumptions involved: The assumption that "teaching" and "shepherding" are tied together; they are in Eph. 4, but not in Rom. 12 or 1 Cor. 12. The assumption that "authenteo" means "have authority over"; it doesn't, it means something more like "domineer." The assumption that being a pastor is largely about "authority" in the first place.
God bless you Dr Brown for your honesty. I feel you are led by God in both mind and spirit
HONEST? author = father not fat-her
author (n.)
mid-14c., auctor, autour, autor "father, creator, one who brings about, one who makes or creates" someone or something
God clearly led my husband and me to a fellowship with a female leader, her gift is more a prophet than a pastor but God definitely speaks to and through her. I want to follow God's Word but then it seems the Spirit doesn't care too much about the male and female distinction...God has blessed me through many other godly women in ministry, how can this be?
I agree! In fact I (a woman) got radically saved and called into ministry to teach and preach when I was certainly not looking for that calling or even knew what it was. Who am I to deny what The Lord has called me to do!
Women, as Paul said are permitted to teach the children and young women, also to give specific warnings or messages as directed by God or an elder; however, it explicitly prohibits teaching men. There is an order. Governmental, similar to the military. It is not about value, it is about Godly order and design, by rank.
It begins with the home. God; Adam; Eve. It doesn't matter what we feel, or are told.
Only truth given by the Lord
. Emmanuel, YAH, ABBA Father.
May God bless you
We are to listen to what the good book says
Kat Kerr you are the second person to say the same thing.I am getting out of the attacks buy reading the bible much thank you and God bless you
Kat Kerr we are a war spiritual war and Jesus is helping me get through it God is sending me messages through his people this is a wow you are right about me so right pastor Sudra East Indian pastor said the same thing about me as you did WOW
@@katkerr4672 you are a devil
@@lynnmottram2904 this person says this on many messages on many comments. Hes a scam artist. He isn't seeing you in some mirror
Indeed but bit. mist b ne. taken I kto context a d examined with other scripture.
Example Calvinism has a wrong talked on the scripture.
often we see people taking the Bible and cutting it up it is not to be read that way. You would not take a letter from a friend and cut it up.
People often use scripture incorrectly. e.g. I can do all things etc. this is a Bible verse that talks about economics and being satisfied with your current state of finances. Paul could be rich or poor. and still prosper.
Knock on the door is another verse used out of context and is used for evangelism but does not have anything to do with evangelism as it is addressed to a church.
You are neither hot or cold to the church in Lao dicea is a simili that they are useless.
Hot drinks are good as well as cold but no one likes tepid drinks and they spit them out. etc. etc. etc.
I think what Dr. Brown says may be valid.
there are risks with women Pastors to go down a too gentle way of overcompensate.
Submission we are all under some authrity
Wow. It's both hilarious and tragic seeing how the patriarchalists get their panties in a painful wad over the idea that Scripture treats men and women as equals.
How come ppl always changing God's Word or adding to it for the culture or these loose women in the Church? Well, this is what the Bible says in 1 Timothy among other places:11 A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. 15 But women will be saved through childbearing-if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.
Prophecy isn’t teaching , the women in the Bible who were prophetess all specifically had a message of a warning and didn’t teach the word or lead.
who were the leaders in the church at Priscillia and Aquilia , house church?
@@zerosparky9510can you show where it says they were leaders?? Never seen that verse
@Hey Jaja u ever read 1st Corinthians. Chapter 12. Has a list. Paul wrote this to brothers and sisters in Christ. And Paul in Roman's ch12..also has a list. And again to both. And he said for those to lead to lead. Again to both brothers and sisters in Christ.
@@zerosparky9510 sorry but you didn't give a Verse. You gave YOUR interpretation my friend.. Paul wouldn't say a woman can lead if he was going to make a 180 statement later on.
@Hey Jaja so .thay is verses. Same back. Your viewpoint is different Tham mine.
Where does it say in the Bible " if the woman is under Godly authority they can teach." Teaching in context here is in the Church. Not on the street as an evangelist preaching the word - like in Acts with Priscilla and Aquila.
Where does it say 1 Tim. 2 is "in the church," and where does it say Prisca and Aquila instructed Apollos "on the street"?
“Women-“- soul, “men” - spirit.
Paul speaks in parables and uses the hierarchy of marriage example to explain that our weaker vessel is to submit to our Spirit. We all are spirit beings with a soul. Some only understand carnal, outside of the cup, but we are called to walk by the spirit not the flesh.
You can’t put God in a box. He can use anyone he wants and when he wants. He’s Almighty God.
What was the Point of the epistles that were God's word against woman teaching
Very true, but you can’t change His Word either.
Ppl who go against God's character is the one's putting him in a box, God is who he is , yet ppl want to change his character, and judgments to fit their ideas, now that's putting God in your own personal little box.
He won't go against His word ever, sorry no women preachers or teachers in the church period
There is only one God which is the God of Israel
No the bible says many times they are to silence in the church they are to teach children and young women.The bible is clear to that at least 15 times it says it
Rodney page do your research on kat Kerr she is a fake she's not of God she is a liar and a deceiver lots of false Prophecies check her out
how can they be silent in church but also teach young women and children there? 🤔 and how do you reconcile silence with paul's acknowledgement of female leaders?
k h a l i l take it up with God it says 18 times in bible for the women not to speak in the pulpit God is not going to speak against himself move on and God bless
@@lynnmottram2904 you came to a discussion forum to tell christians not to discuss the topic the video is about and to take it up with God. are you sure you're interested in believers finding clarity through scripture or in you just talking (down) at ppl like a pharisee?
k h a l i l i study 14 hours a day I love God and Jesus I have my own UA-cam and teach you come to my UA-cam HARBINGERS OF JESUS CHRIST I'm on at 2:00 pm Moutan time
Dr brown I feel this time you are wrong. The Word is clear, woman should not teach in church. You giving a progressive response!! Did woman teach in the temple or synagogue during Paul time?
Are women still considered human property the way they were during the times to which you refer?
@@MsSongbird716
1 Cor. 14:34-36 (but read chapters 12-14 all together for context; as there were no chapter breaks in Paul's first letter to the church of God which is at Corinth)
It's about God's order and God's design, not what we think should change as our world changes. Are we to follow God or our own beliefs (Issaiah 55, specifically verses 7 thru 8, but once again read the whole chapter)
@@kstrudel2234 Hi! I think I'm just going to have to consider that this is one of those things that many of us won't agree upon. I'm ok with that. God bless you!
@@MsSongbird716
I respect your kind acknowledgement, but remember that we are called to pursue truth and not settle for anything less. 1 Peter 3:13-17
@@kstrudel2234 I have peace with God concerning this topic. The truth that I receive and embrace is that the Father is not against a woman teaching in church. My pastor is a woman and she is an anointed teacher of God's word. I appreciate that you encouraged me to pursue truth, likewise...As we all should! May we all continue in the privilege of seeking the Father and may He reveal to us the things we desire and need to know. Be blessed! 💗
This man took many places in scripture out of context and he is just using these places to justify his woman pastor friends that he has, I love my sisters in Christ I have seen gotta use many women for his glory but just because you feel that you’re being called to be a pastor does not mean that your pastor, just because you can speak and prepare a sermon nicely does not mean you’re anointed. You can’t just take a little bit of the Bible and practice it at church, you can’t exclude church practice from the New Testament just because you don’t fully understand what it means. We are in the last days Christian, you need to stop watering down the word of God, you need to stop getting your ears tickled by false teachers telling you what you want to hear, you need to start enduring sound doctrine and applying it to your life, because Christ is coming soon.
Amen Amen Amen
Absolutely. I can’t believe one can read the specific instructions from the Holy Spirit via Paul on woman teachers and say anything contrary. Paul even backed it up the reasoning with the Adam/Eve reference. And still people cave to society pressure.
“For the time will come when people will not tolerate sound doctrine and accurate instruction [that challenges them with God’s truth]; but wanting to have their ears tickled [with something pleasing], they will accumulate for themselves [many] teachers [one after another, chosen] to satisfy their own desires and to support the errors they hold, and will turn their ears away from the truth and will wander off into myths and man-made fictions [and will accept the unacceptable].”
2 Timothy 4:3-4 AMP
@@Jesus_is_otwso true my friend
I will stick to what GOD says.
Excellent. So when Acts 2 emphatically shows men and women carrying out the Great Commission on equal terms, you're fine with it. When Acts 18 shows a man and woman teaching Apollos in their house-church as equal partners, you're fine with it. When 1 Cor. 12.13, Col. 3.11, and esp. Gal. 3.28 show that the old hierarchal boundaries no longer hold in Christ and in the Spirit, you're fine with that. When Col. 4.15 shows a woman overseeing a house-church, you're fine with that.
The context of Galatians 3, no male or female, is about salvation, not ministry roles. Also Deborah wasn't appointed by God to have teaching oversight in the temple, i.e. she wasn't a Levite priest. Instead she was a prophetess and judge. As a judge her role was in the legal system, as such we can't use her as evidence for women to have teaching authority in the church. I'm not saying they can't, I'm just saying we can't appeal to Deborah because she wasn't a teacher of God's Word 🙂🙏
As prophetess and judge, is it possible that at times she would have had the task to instruct the people in the righteousness of God. Just in my personal opinion, it would be difficult to lead, unify, encourage and motivate a people to stay aligned with God's will without ever teaching them anything...it just goes together.
@@MsSongbird716 Hello 🙂. As a prophetess she was responsible for delivering God's message, this didn't give her oversight or headship or a leader's responsibility over anyone. A prophet just delivers God's message. Similarly, as a judge she presided over court cases, e.g. disputes between people, e.g. my donkey fell into his well and he did nothing about it, I want recompense. Serving as a judge in a court of law is worlds apart from the church elder's responsibility of having teaching oversight of God's flock. It's impossible to draw exact comparisons between women in the OT and NT because we're under a different Covenant now 🙂. Only the priests back then had the job of interpreting the Law (God's Word) to Israel as far as I'm aware. My current view, though I'm open to correction, is that women can teach women; and women can teach men in a non-authoritative/non-leadership manner (e.g. Priscilla helped Apollos to understand the Scriptures better). But women can't function as elders, i.e. the main leaders in church because that would put her in a headship role - being responsible for the spiritual welfare of the men; but the Bible clearly gives that headship or oversight role to the husband. 1 Corin 11 says that God the Father is head of Jesus, but Jesus isn't less important than Father. They just have different roles. It's the same in church. Women aren't to function as heads. This doesn't make them less important, they just have a different role to fulfill. I'm always open to correction but that's my current understanding. God bless 🙂.
@@marisademore468 thank for your response. I will think on these things and be prayerful still about them, searching the scriptures for more understanding. It is very difficult to accept that many of the women pastors/teachers are not of God when their ministries are very fruitful in discipling and equipping others in their Christian walk. I sit still and ask God about stuff like this...like is this what He means when He says He uses foolish things to confound the wise...or that the letter kills but the Spirit gives life..or he that has an ear let him hear what the Spirit is saying to the church. Many would think that this issue is cut and dry but it's not, not for me. I can't see the godly purpose for teaching being hindered by gender. And believe me I get why that would be quite touchy in today's world! I guess some things we will never know until we get to heaven...🤔
@@MsSongbird716 Hi, I know what you mean, I struggled with these issues for years. I found more freedom and understanding when I began learning how to keep the Scriptures in context, we need to know what the original author first intended the letter or book to mean when he first penned it. In context, Paul in 1 Timothy appeals to Scripture to prohibit women serving as elders. Paul points us to Genesis, so the prohibition is not a cultural thing. When I studied Scripture and came to see that each husband is head of their wife, it became impossible to understand how a woman could take the leadership role in church because that would make her the head of her husband. Also, if a wife cannot serve as head (spiritual guardian) over her husband, God isn't going to give that responsibility to a single lady. The thought that thousands of our sisters might be in/are in (?) the wrong role is hard to comprehend; but when it comes to fruit from 'ministry', only God really knows eternal fruit from temporary appearances. I'll be praying for you sis and asking the Lord to give us both more understanding - and to keep us pursuing the work He's called us to. God's blessings to you in Jesus, Marisa x
@@marisademore468 💗
Gods Word says women cannot be pastors or teach men in the church. There is no debate. It goes back to Genesis. When women and children are leading its Gods judgement.
God's word is God's word. Paul's word is Paul's word. Paul admits he is a liar.
Read the Bible again lol
Take authority means to dominate. In that passage. A good book on the original language is, the other half of the army
God is the same today yesterday and forever. Woman are not to teach period
If it were about education, why did 1 Timothy 2:12 then follow with referencing the order of creation between Adam and Eve, and Eve being deceived? Doesn't that mean it transcends the church at Ephesus?
To find an exception and make it the rule is erroneous thinking. 🤔
Nope! Nice try Dr Brown, but it’s best to take the clear directive from Paul as he gives the reason back in Genesis. Roles in the church were specific and the qualifications were explicit.
"Back in Genesis," men and women had full equality until the Fall. Those of us in Christ the Second Adam, partakers in the New Creation, should not take the Fallen state as the norm to which we aspire. Certainly that was not Paul's point in 1 Tim. 2:13-14, because Paul was not an exegetical imbecile.
Deborah wasn't a teacher in the Synagogue or anything she was a prophetess
She was a prophetess AND a judge over Israel, I'm sure at one point or another that required her to teach and instruct those who the LORD trusted her to lead.
That is true EJ.
Prophets teach
@@MsSongbird716 so you know more than the Apostle Paul lol
@@MsSongbird716 Deborah was a judgment on Israel because of their disobedience. It was shameful for a woman to lead.
I like 👍🏼 your biblical answer Dr. Brown.
Was there an actual answer? Because I missed it. I heard the proof positive that examples of other names women were to teach but Paul the apostle also taught in parable form to say that our flesh or weaker vessel should not have authority over our spirit man. We are to walk by the spirit and not fulfill the lists of the flesh. One would need to know what flesh means. Flesh is the covering or house for the spirit. Anyone who observes the outside of the cup is being carnally minded and that is death because we are to be spiritually minded which is life. Paul uses the example of marriage hierarchy to explain how we are to walk by the spirit and not by our emotions, mind and will using our weaker vessel which is our soul.
Lusts not lists
The passage in question concerning 1 Timothy 2 has zero to do with the gift of a prophetess to prophesy.
It also has zero to do with women being pastors.
@@Norrin777Radd it has included no women pastors or women apostles or women teaching over men.
I love your teachings, Dr.Brown, but there is no proof, not even 1 verse in the Word, that women were teaching God's word to men in the church service or being pastors!
They were prophecying, praying, teaching other women (Titus 2:3-5), sharing the gospel (Mary Magdalene did after Jesus's resurrection), but not teaching authoritativly or leading a church🤷♀️
I wish they did, but we can't twist God's word🤷♀️
And Priscilla wasn't teaching, that greek word doesn't say that she was doing Bible teaching as some women do it today and not in church service!
1 Timothy 2:12 is clear: "I do not permit a woman TO TEACH (give Biblical teaching) or to ASSUME AUTHORITY over a man (lead a church)"
I believe they can do anything until the Biblical role of man and woman is not twisted. The man is the leader, the woman is his helper. That's why women can't lead a church or teach from the Bible (assume authority), bcs it is not their God's given role!
For the husband is the head of the wife even as Christ is the head of the church, his body, and is himself its Savior. Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit in everything to their husbands.
Ephesians 5:21-24
Likewise, wives, be subject to your own husbands, so that even if some do not obey the word, they may be won without a word by the conduct of their wives, when they see your respectful and pure conduct.
1 Peter 3:1-2
Depends on what you consider "proof."
The plain sense of Col. 4:15 is that Nympha had responsibility (oversight) for the church in her home.
"Teaching authoritatively" is a made-up expression.
"The man is the leader, the woman is the helper" is a man-made doctrine.
There is no substantial difference in sense between "ektithemi" and "didasko" in the Apollos account.
Even in the assembly, potentially "each one," including women, can have a "teaching." (1 Cor. 14.26)
In 1 Tim. 2.12, "assume authority" is better than "have authority" or "exercise authority," but "domineer" is probably closer.
Wives should submit to their husbands as an example of all believers submitting to each other -- Eph. 5.21. If husbands are to "lead," it is in being even more loving and self-giving, inverting the patriarchal power structure of that time.
The context of the instructions in 1 Pet. is evangelism and apologetics. Wives "submitting" there is a strategy for winning over an infidel husband, and the surrounding culture.
My understanding is that any instruction that Jesus, Paul or any other Apostle would give that was followed by a specific reason for the instruction, can obviously not be interpreted any other way than what was given. E.g. 1 Tim 2 passages on women's roles were grounded and reasoned in Genesis (God's creational ordinances), Paul was referring to God's original order of the ministry of teaching and authority.. not some problem that referred to unruly women in the Ephesian church as many would suggest.
I did a short essay on the judge Deborah. According to
scripture, if a man would not accept a judge's verdict,
he was to be executed.
If God cared about gender, all the judges
would have been men.
I can paste the essay here if requested.
Now Deborah, a prophetess, the wife of Lappidoth, was judging Israel at that time. She used to sit under the palm tree of Deborah between Ramah and Bethel in the hill country of Ephraim; and the sons of Israel went up to her for judgment.
-excerpt Judges 4
(I didn't watch this video, but am familiar with these matters.)
She wasn't leading the church and thet was not the norm. If God didn't care about genders, he wouldn't have had ONLY ONE female leader. He also wouldn't have had roles according to gender
Correct.. Paul gives his reason. He says nothing about them being unruly
@@heyjaja72 I don't think you fully
understand what being a judge in
Israel was about.
So if God does something just once,
whatever it may be, then we are not
to pay any attention to it? That makes
no sense.
I guess we're done. I don't know
what else to say, unless you have a
question.
@@8784-l3b I do have a question.. can you name any female elders or leaders in NT?
AND WHAT is your interpretation of this verse here.
Isiah 3:12 As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths
It seems Deborah in leadership was judgement on Israel, not the rule. Would you agree??
I agree with most of what you said. Especially that women should be in their right place under (Godly) men's authority. Also, that women are valuable in many ways including prophesying, youth leadership, Bible teaching etc. But in no way do I believe a woman should be the lead pastor of a church of women AND men, or be that high up in leadership in any capacity (say, an all women's church with no male leadership. That does not align with God's design either.) I don't believe women in this high of authority were called by God. If they were, God would have changed His mind from the time of Paul to now, and God does not change. I believe with all my heart this comes from the Holy Spirit. Because when I came back to the Lord as an adult, I saw nothing wrong with it. I wasn't taught against it. And I didn't know of these verses that speak against women in high leadership. Nor did I discern between false teachers and true ones. But over time, my discernment grew, and some famous and extremely wealthy pastors began to give me a sick feeling in the pit of my stomach. That's not to say I didn't believe in financially supporting those that lead us through Christ, but many are clearly frauds. Again, I wasn't taught that women shouldn't be lead pastors, and I didn't think they shouldn't be; there was no reason but the Holy Spirit that over a short time, I was put off by women pastors. My stomach was behaving the same way as with obvious false teachers who are in ministry only to get filthy rich.
From what I understand about Debra, she was a judge and prophetis, not a lead pastor or however that would've been termed in those days.
But where I really disagree with what you said, is that Paul said what he said because of the times in which they lived. I don't believe at all the Bible is sprinkled with personal opinion that is only applicable for that time. It's the living word of God, so every word should be able to speak to all generations. The eternal Holy Spirit inspired the words written, not men's personal opinions based on that generation. If it were, the Bible would not be flawless and wouldn't be applicable to all people of any time period.
I agree, amen ❤
Paul the apostle also spoke in parables like Yahusha. Parables are considered coverings. Like a shell to encase something that is to be protected. Reconsider that our weaker vessel is our soul that has emotions, a will and a mind. Our spirit man is how we are to be led by the spirit but if we are being led by our soul which is our weaker vessel then we are not letting our spirit rule us. Sometimes we call that “ our gut feeling” and we instead choose wrongly or can be deceived by trickery to believe what we see or hear based on outward appearances called “the flesh.” Many times we want to cut corners, save money or out of convenience choose to believe a replacement of the original or master and settle fir sub par but in the long run we end up with more problems and more heartache when we choose wrongly . This is why we must discern rightly and avoid imposters. Not saying anything about anyone here. We all must seek the spirit to get wisdom and understanding because “many twist Paul’s words to their own destruction.”
Reconsider Woman= aka the weaker vessel, but in parable form can be construed as our soul and Man= spirit which we are to be led by our spirit and not the actual fleshly covering or face value literal man. Our spirit and soul are one like marriage it cannot be torn asunder. The fleshly example is human man and woman but it’s a parable.
Junia was a female apostle though her name is in the bible
Teaching is a spiritual gift not authority ❤
Actually, "governing" (1 Cor. 12) and "leadership" (Rom. 12) are also gifts, and nothing in those passages precludes those gifts being given to women.
@@Norrin777Radd right .. nothing preclude ♥️
Paul uses the word I which is ego in Greek he did not use God which is Theos. Huge difference.
Furthermore Most people think that Deborah was only a prophetess she was also the leader. Read chapters Judges 4& 5.
In Malachi 3 :6 God is quoted as saying
For I am the Lord, I change not..
And in Numbers 23:19 it is written
God is not a man, that he should lie,
Therefore if God allowed Deborah to lead /rule over Israel and tell Barak what to do and Barak was afraid and would only as told if she were present at the battle and God allowed that, then scripturally, God has no problem with women teaching in church.
Why do people reject the plain teaching of Jesus? He didnt think we needed teachers see Matthew 23:8
YOU CANT INTERPRET THE BIBLE AS YOU LIKE
I have the same understanding
I go by what the Scriptures say, not what this man believes to be his opinion.
Different roles, a husband to one wife is one of the qualifications for Pastors.
If you accept the usual but dubious translation of 1 Tim. 3 and Tit. 1, along with the (reasonable) assumption that pastors, elders, and overseers are essentially equivalent. Payne, Bartlett, and Williams believe the CEV and CEB translations are more accurate.
@@Norrin777Radd who are they compared to Thee One who gives truth?
@@deniselong6102 That's a silly question. Like many on your side, you talk as if God had directly announced that certain particular translations are "right." He did not. Scholars like Payne and Bartlett are as qualified as anyone to opine on matters of translation and interpretation.
The passage is very clear in what it says, where as the passages you use are not exactly clear in what they say. In scripture unclear passages must submit to other passages that are clear in their meaning. Like a woman must not teach a man. what can be clearer than that? You say Paul only said these things to this church because of the disorder in this congregation yet you have no scriptures to back up this opinion so it it is just an opinion. Me I prefer to listen to Gods word ( a woman shall not be permitted to teach a man) rather than the opinions of foolish men ( this was word just for that time and place and no longer applies to us) Stop tickeling itching ears and repent
I like that you are saying that's how YOU see it. That's fine. I am studying this issue myself. I hope I find the answer. thank you for your opinion
If a woman can teach men or if a woman can pastor a church. Then a man can have 2 wives and teach as well
@@Crow44195 ?
@@MsSongbird716 What is the ? for?
@@Crow44195 Sorry my "?" was shorthand for I'm curious and would like to understand. Would you be willing to explain your if...then statement?
@@MsSongbird716 No worries sister, I appreciate the conversation. 1 Timothy 2:12-14 the Apostle does not allow a woman to teach men or have authority over a man. Due to Creation not culture, women do have a role, for the most part women are the backbone of the congregation. Leadership is male, and if a woman is to teach she should do so under male headship.
34 Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says. 35 If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church.[b]
36 Or did the word of God originate with you? Or are you the only people it has reached?
Who wrote Corinthians?
Answer: Paul, commanded by God, Inspired by the Holy Spirit. I'm sorry Doctor but you are clearly misleading people with your own private interpretation on this issue.
True. Paul gives his reason. Anything else is deviation from scripture
Exactly, people think it was just Paul speaking but they forgot Paul is filled with the Holy Spirit which is God. He is a messenger of God and God is the one that gives Paul the messages.
So in 1 Cor. 11, Paul gave instructions about women praying and prophesying in the church, then a few chapters later, basically said, "Yeah, what I said back there? I was drunk. Forget it. Women should just shut up."
Wrong, Debra was not a Pastor. So the answer is a simple no.
Acts 2:17 - And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
Acts 18:26 - And he began to speak boldly in the synagogue: whom when Aquila and Priscilla had heard, they took him unto them, and expounded unto him the way of God more perfectly.
Priscilla taught in Ephesus
Not by herself and not in church but from her home from what I read :)
@@KarolinaJ94 She was listed before her husbands name. She taught in different places. Teaching was not only in temples but in homes because there were church meetings held in homes due to the persecution. Teaching is teaching. She was a teacher.
@@KarolinaJ94 Romans 16:3 Paul called Priscilla a "co-laborer"
@@KarolinaJ94 Romans 16:4 Paul commends Priscilla and Aquilla for risking their lives for the gospel. "They risked their lives for me. Not only I but all the churches of the Gentiles are grateful to them." They taught in Ephesus and they traveled with Paul Acts 18:18. they taught Apollo in the home but it does not mean that is the only place.
@@KarolinaJ94 their home was a house church see Romans 16:3-5 Greet Priscilla and Aquila, my co-workers in Christ Jesus.4 They risked their lives for me. Not only I but all the churches of the Gentiles are grateful to them. ***5 Greet also the church that meets at their house. Greet my dear friend Epenetus, who was the first convert to Christ in the province of Asia.
Is prophesying the same as teaching?
It depends.
Def not hearing the answer from a women 'pastor' lol
It should just be common biblical knowledge, that being used by the Spirit and exercising one of the nine spiritual gifts during a church service is much, much different than someone being used in the capacity of one or more of what is referred to as the five fold ministry. A women being used in one of the vocal gifts is way, way , different than being said to be a teacher, pastor, evangelist………….
This Man clearly said his own idea not the Bible idea , don't say anything different from the Bible, say what the Bible says so as to be great in heaven Matt 5:19
The women at the well shared the gospel, kind of like she street preached, but after the men are believers I don’t believe the women should be teaching them anymore. Reaching the lost outside the church seems good but once a man has the Holy spirit, His leader is Christ.
If I put bible verses on my car am I not teaching men as well as women? Or if If I share the gospel with my male family members I am teaching them.
So I believe this would primarily apply to women not teaching in the church or in Christian settings where Christian men are available to teach. If you want to street preach women, or hand out tracks and share the gospel, do it, and do it prayerfully!!!
I agree. We are all told to evangelize and spread the gospel.
Romans 16:1-2
It would be nice to have the actual scripture posted when referencing so that we do not have to leave this thread to go search for what your comment actually says.
@@JEvrist Yeah. But many of us are in the habit of having our Bible software open in another window and readily switch back and forth.
The reference is to deacon Phoebe, the patron/benefactor/protector/leader and the courier and expounder of the Epistle to the Romans.
Wouldn't Jesus have had female disciples if he wanted to announce a new thing as important as having female leaders?
Wouldn't He have made a point of calling gentile disciples if He really wanted to show that the Gospel was for all?
@@Norrin777Radd The Gospel was for the Jews first and only passed on to the gentiles when the Jews rejected Him. He could have included Jewish women as they are still Jews, but He did not...
And many false profits shall arise.......
wow am watching from cameroon
Glad you have a view. But Gods view is that women are not to ever be in authority over men period.
Listen to you or the Bible? I will stick with the Bible which is very clear on this. But I’m not looking for clicks or money
Excellent. So when Acts 2 emphatically shows men and women carrying out the Great Commission on equal terms, you're fine with it. When Acts 18 shows a man and woman teaching Apollos in their house-church as equal partners, you're fine with it. When 1 Cor. 12.13, Col. 3.11, and esp. Gal. 3.28 show that the old hierarchal boundaries no longer hold in Christ and in the Spirit, you're fine with that. When Col. 4.15 shows a woman overseeing a house-church, you're fine with that.
@@Norrin777Radd none of those examples are a woman as a preacher Or a leader of a church. It’s the word of God your mad at not mine
@@Nomad58 amen
But all I see is a very large amount of women who don’t know what they are talking about. It’s all feelings or fake tongues and prophets. I think it’s a mistake. Read Isaiah 3
“Many women are called” - no they are not no one is specifically called anymore by God for ministry
I’m not disagreeing with your statement about women.
But, I do believe people can be called to ministry, what is your rebuttal to that?
No I disagree with you..don't manipulate the Bible words..
What do you believe he "manipulated"?
GOD made Angel's, Adam, All other sorts of creatures, Eve came last. Almost as if God tried to avoid making Woman
Asinine remark. Makes as much sense to say that God diddled around and finally got things right when He created Eve.
Full of contradiction and lacking full Scripture texts.
You say that husband are the head of the wife, yet use the fact that Priscilla is mentioned first before her husband as if that makes her over her husband, so you all see the contradiction?
Is he the head over his wife only in the home or if she is out and about she can become His head?
Not to mention that they held church in their home. So as long as she has church in the home, she can be the head of her husband?
"Head" has little or nothing to do with "authority" in Eph. 5 and 1 Cor. 11.
@Norrin777Radd What is your meaning of head?
1 Corinthians 11:3
King James Version
3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.
@Norrin777Radd The word "head" (kephalē) in the Bible can have multiple meanings, including authority, leader, and superior rank. In some passages, it can also signify a servant leadership role, such as a husband's role with his wife. For example, in Ephesians 5:22-24, Paul uses the head to represent the husband or Christ, and the body to represent the wife or church. This is similar to other texts, both biblical and extrabiblical, where the head is in authority over the body.
@@MyRoBeRtBaKeR That's one opinion. Scholars like Phil Payne and Andrew Bartlett make the case that in the contexts of 1 Cor. 11 and Eph. 5, "head" implies "source," not "authority." Witherington notes that "head" can imply preeminence, as in being at the "head of the line," such that in Eph. 5 the husband undertakes the greater acts of service and self-sacrifice.
@Norrin777Radd That's right, source. Since the woman came from the man, the man came from his source, God.
This is why the woman is the man's glory. That would take after him, but first, the man is the image and glory of God, that takes after Him.
The man, Adam, was the intercessor between God and man before the fall. Now the man, Jesus Christ, after the fall, is the intercessor between God and man, 1 Timothy 2
The man and woman represent the relationship between God and man, man being the bride of the Husbandman God. Just as man is to submit to God, the woman is to submit to the man in the Lord. Not her boss, not her manager, not the stranger passing, etc, for this is not in the Lord but in the world.
This then extends to the husband and wife, for the wife is to submit in all things to her husband and the husband that first submits himself to God. And he will love her as God loves the Church and give Himself for her.
The truth is in the very beginning, and God changes not. God told Adam, "Because you submitted to the wife, which is worshipping the creature over the Creator, hearkned unto her rather than to God, God cursed the ground/creature/everything that was made"
See, Adam submitted to his wife, the woman, and that is when sin entered the world through him, and his disobedience to God's will.
God is the man's head, God is the source of the man. Just as the man is the head of the woman and the source of the woman.
Therefore, they submit to their heads, and it is then when the head means power to rule over, invested in him by his Head, God.
Genesis 3:16 "..and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee."
One thing to remember: There's not one single woman of large prominence in the Bible. Not a one. Taking an apostle aside to refine his understanding is not someone of prominence or a leader. People in the Bible of prominence: Abraham, Jacob, Isaac, Joshua, David, Solomon, Isaiah, the disciples of Jesus and Paul. That's 20 people and there are many others of lower significance that were male. Many. Not a one was female. This is a difficult topic for women of Christian belief to reconcile in this day and age when promises of equality are inundating us on a daily basis. Those are empty promises. I have yet to find a woman anywhere near as happy and especially looking fulfilled at her job than around her children. Most look like they are only doing that job out of necessity. As if any sane woman would be not missing a single moment of her children's miraculous growth. It is rather instinctual after all. Even though feminism would have us ignore our natural instincts.
Another cause of this problem is our insatiable need to buy stuff. Stuff we buy that we don't need and can't afford with money we don't have to impress people we hardly know. Its a vicious circle that brings huge profits to faceless corporations who couldn't care less if you live or die as long as you buy their stuff.
I'll teach you what the Bible directly says.
Acts 2:16-21
[16]But this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel:
[17]‘And it shall come to pass in the last days, says God, That I will pour out of My Spirit on all flesh; Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, Your young men shall see visions, Your old men shall dream dreams.
[18]And on My menservants and on My maidservants I will pour out My Spirit in those days; And they shall prophesy.
[19]I will show wonders in heaven above And signs in the earth beneath: Blood and fire and vapor of smoke.
[20]The sun shall be turned into darkness, And the moon into blood, Before the coming of the great and awesome day of the Lord.
[21]And it shall come to pass That whoever calls on the name of the Lord Shall be saved.’
Here we must ask ourselves who the servants of the Lord are.
2 Timothy 2:20-26
[20]But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and silver, but also of wood and clay, some for honor and some for dishonor.
[21]Therefore if anyone cleanses himself from the latter, he will be a vessel for honor, sanctified and useful for the Master, prepared for every good work.
[22]Flee also youthful lusts; but pursue righteousness, faith, love, peace with those who call on the Lord out of a pure heart.
[23]But avoid foolish and ignorant disputes, knowing that they generate strife.
[24]And a servant of the Lord must not quarrel but be gentle to all, able to teach, patient,
[25]in humility correcting those who are in opposition, if God perhaps will grant them repentance, so that they may know the truth,
[26]and that they may come to their senses and escape the snare of the devil, having been taken captive by him to do his will.
Conclusion: Not only does it say that servants of the Lord are Teachers, but also it explains how a servant of the Lord must be. It is also explains how to call upon the Name of the Lord, thus being also done by the servants.
@@kyalove7950 I wasn't ignoring women in the Bible. There were great, strong, loyal women all through the Bible. Many were wives of the greatest men in the Bible, others did God's work on their own. But that's not what my post was about. My post showed that the most prominent, most influential people in the Bible were ALL men. You can ignore that of course but your life will not be as fulfilling if you do as a woman. That doesn't mean all women are destined for marriage and the white picket fence in the suburbs with 2.5 kids. But for the vast majority, that will give by far the most satisfaction. Look at women's faces around happy children. That is the look of contentment and peace. Its very inspirational for a man to see this. We can't give women that kind of peace, only children and the pure way they interpret the world. When a child has some calamity (and young children have calamities every day it seems) they naturally seek who? Almost always the mother. Ask yourself why that is. You know its because women are far better at consoling and support than men (in general). Of course both are ideal but when we are at our wit's end, we tend to seek female arms to be wrapped up in. Women often support local churches in crucial ways. I believe the point is to focus on the work needed and the abilities we possess and how we can bring those two together. The point is, "What can we do for the Lord today?" Equality doesn't bring happiness or even contentment. A Bilbical man serves unceasingly. He serves God and his family. One can only serve if one listens to what is needed. The head of the country serves the entire country.
@@kyalove7950 I should add I have read many articles and books written by Christian women that are incredibly uplifting and inspirational - and Biblical. Is that what would be defined as "teaching"? I'm not sure. But when people write a book they take time to formulate their thoughts carefully, unlike when we speak and can often say things unintentionally or be easily misunderstood. Even some obvious false teachers have written some incredibly good material, usually in their early days before they got off track. We're simply far more likely to make mistakes when talking compared to writing (a book). I sure wouldn't discount Christian books that happened to be written by women!
@@jorgenath1454 many ppl read the verses you give, and Don't see , those verses are about judgment, God poors out his spirit on everyone in many places throughout scriptures as a judgment, it's his spirit of sleep that speaks in tongue's likened unto one with a familiar spirit, the spirit causes people to faint, and stager as if they are drunk, or on strong wine ( sound familiar ) judgment comes to the house of God first, then the whole world bc they choose to believe a lie. Your Bible verses are Speaking of the same thing Jesus was talking about when he said " and many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many " . It's also spoken of by Joel and Isiah, Matthew 24:11. Isaiah 3:12. Joel 2:30. Blood, fire and pillars of smoke, this is judgment bc ppl refuse to hear the truth, don't know scriptures, misread bc of the lack of knowledge of the word, don't know the whole of the word, don't be decieved there is no great revival before the end, but a great falling away. But speaking in tongue's is ceasing from your own words and speaking only that given by God as Jesus Christ did, a new tongue for those who once was sinners. Today what are witnessing is judgment, another Jesus being preached, another doctrine being taught ( which is scary close, not really another doctrine , but it is ) , and another SPIRIT at work which does do lying signs and wonders 2nd corinthians and 2 thessaloians 2: 3- 9. And even more detail in Isaiah ch 29 : v 4- 12 . This is that spirit of sleep God poors out bc of disobedience, it prophecies but in falsehood , it preaches but has another doctrine, it has another doctrine but close enough to truth that it decieves you, it has tongue's but it is from the dust of the ground, many are faint and drunk on it . Anyone can take scripture and make anything appear as if it is good, thing is that when you do so, then you make other scriptures a lie; therefore when we use scripture it has to align with ALL SCRIPTURES. These are the oracles of God who do this in this manner, bringing forth out of the old to confirm the new, and bringing forth new confirming it out of the old. Spirit poured out upon all flesh should be one key ( bc we walk not in the flesh ) fire, smoke, and blood should be your 2nd key ( no doubt that is judgment ) but mainly your biggest clue is Matthew ch 24 : vs 4-35. It is said plainly, clear as glass.
He never answered the question. I think we would all agre women are to teach and be leaders...that not in dispute. But in what role and function is at dispute. Scriptur is clear...no female padtors or preachers in church over entire congregation.
How can Scripture be "clear" in that, when it never says anything close to that?
Where is this Scripture that you use for your points?
First of all to teach men that they should allow a woman to put power over a man is blasphemous! 1 Corinthians 11
The only place where authority (what you call "power") occurs in 1 Cor. 11 is where it says "A woman has authority over her own head."
@Norrin777Radd Brother, you are suppressing the truth, that women can not hold power over a man's head, married or not, as stated in both 1 Corinthians 11:10 and 1 Timothy 2:12, and Ephesians 5:23
Power is "Covering." Man should not cover his Head, have power over his head, as he stands in for God, but the woman needs to have a covering[power] over her head because she is given to the man, who is the head of her.
Head is also power, the Father being the Power/Head of Jesus, and Jesus the Head of the man and the man, the head of the woman.
If a woman puts power over a man, she becomes his covering, and we know that man should not cover his head and have power over him.
God is to teach the man, and the woman is to become one with the man. The man in the intercessor over man, with male and female, which is a figure of Him that is to come.
It had been this way since the beginning, with Adam and Eve. God does not change, as Paul made evidently clear concerning divorce.
@@MyRoBeRtBaKeR Adam was never to be in a position of "power" over Eve. God saw Adam's lack, and created Eve as his "ezer kenegdo," strong partner and ally of similar kind. Man and woman were created equal in bearing God's image and likeness, and in having dominion over the rest of creation. That changed at the Fall, and we who are in Christ the Second Adam and are new creations should not look to the Fallen state as our standard.
@Norrin777Radd You suppress the truth in unrighteousness.
God is a God of order and discipline. God is the HEAD of Christ, Christ is the Head of THE MAN, and THE MAN is the head of the woman, and the husband is also the head of the wife. This must be if all things are put back under Him as before the fall.
God created all things in a chain of command, God, the Word, the man, and then the woman. The man was not MADE for the woman, but the woman was made FOR the man.
The man, not the woman, is the image and glory of God, and the woman is the glory of the man.
All things were created to be under His feet in order. When the serpent beguiled Eve and she did usurp power over Adam, giving him the fruit to eat, she came out from under her head, Adam. When Adam hearkened unto Eve and did eat from her hand the fruit that God told him he should not eat, Adam came out from under his head, Christ, the anointed Word of Spirit amd life.
God, by His Word, created all things, and it will accomplish everything He sent It out to do, and when the Word was finished on the cross the Word went back to God, not void but did accomplish everything that He sent it to do.
Mind you, this is only IN the Lord, out from under the Lord, the women can usurp power over a man.
Such as business owners, managers, political leaders, etc. Yet under God, He has set all things by the good pleasure of His will, not our own.
Since 117 For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man is true, then 1 Timothy 2:12
King James Version
12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence is true, and anyone that does not believe this is not His.
@@MyRoBeRtBaKeR You have silly ideas about "blasphemy" and "suppressing the truth." The latter is reminiscent of the old "twisting Scripture" bilge. Are you aware that from our perspective, your side is "suppressing the truth"?
And where do you get this detailed hierarchy, especially equating "covering" with "power"?
Culturally the male has for the most part been the leader of the home since patriarchy had been the dominant form of family governance throughout the ages. But, and I say this with respect to Gods Holy word, patriarchy is not necessarily the ideal structure in the home. God has from creation desired that BOTH men and women co-lead together. Does it mean there can’t be various roles within the marriage? Of course it. However in the church what you find time and time again (especially Paul) is an accommodation to the culture with regard to female leaders. Dr Brown is correct in that yes, women for the most part were uneducated and of course were not able to teach. Why there was a group of women teaching all kinds of false teaching and heresy in Ephesus and Paul had to put the kaibosch on that right away as many newbie Christians were being led astray. Do I believe all of the offices of the church are open equally to men and women? YES but as with anything else anyone seeking the office of pastor for example needs to be of good character and educated. Thankfully these days women have equal opportunities to enter seminary as men do to prepare for the pastorate
Women were actually well educated by the time Paul wrote 1st and 2nd Timothy. If they lacked in education, Paul would have mentioned that they too could be elders once they gained further education. But unfortunately for you, that wasn’t what Paul wrote. His reasoning is due to the fall. Eve first sinned and then Adam. As a result, men are to be the only elders of the church at large.
No, Paul’s reference to Genesis was descriptive to the problem of women being deceived by false teaching/ bad advice, not prescriptive. He’s not saying women could not hold positions of authority because Eve was deceived, he was giving an example of what deception looked like. BTW I wasn’t saying no women were educated, but culturally it would not have been common. There were women in leadership positions in the church. Paul was pointing out a problem that was widespread not being universal. There is no Biblical case you can make for an all time every place prohibition of women pastors. None
@@shannorwood8802 Your reasoning is still irrelevant even if you are correct..although you are not correct. Paul is literally talking about how a church is to operate in the next few verses and he speaks of the roles of both men and women but intentionally excluded women from even having a chance at being an elder. Again, if he wanted women to be elders or eventually be elders, he would have given them qualifications…but he didn’t. Paul is either a woman hating bigot, or he is communicating the truth of what God desires for a church. He can’t be both.
@Josua Torres I’m not here to argue or to accuse you of being wrong as you have done with me. Most folk in my findings in non denominational churches read the Bible as if it were written to them. Here is my contention. The Bible was not written to us, it was written for us. The Scripture was contextualized for the cultural moment it was written. Paul was not a bigot. He was trying to protect the church from further unnecessary persecution by pushing an overrealized eschatology. Look up any scholarly piece on 1 Timothy or any passage in the NT and you’ll see what I’m saying is true. The problem is we’ve adopted an incorrect way to look at the Scriptures
@@shannorwood8802 You just accused me of being wrong as well so don’t think you are on some sort of moral high ground. New Testament scholars who think that scripture is ONLY applicable to churches in the 1st century are fools. Why not fully commit to your idea of “the bible isn’t written TO us” statement and say the the gospel doesn’t apply TO us either??? You wouldn’t do that because you know it’s foolish and just a slogan that modern evangelicals want people to use. That slogan doesn’t prove anything. It’s literally just a lame slogan.
Paul also gave instructions with regards to elder qualifications in Tutus for yet again, ANOTHER church. Paul never gives any woman the chance of being an elder regardless of education or their theology and doctrine. It’s also important for me to note that he technically also excludes some men, hence the qualifications. But our modern feminist society only started having a problem with Pauls words for the last 60 years. I don’t think the problem is Pauls instructions, it’s the people of todays age. No one in any of the protestant Christian denominations had women elders up until recently.
im sorry but i have to get this out as i am dealing with it in my own church and it is like teaching obstinate children:
it angers me how complicated people make simple statements in order to justify their own opinions.
i note that in my experience it has always been worldliness that is the reasoning behind peoples confusticating of simple bible passages.
for example, no one debates or provides complicated explanations for the verse, "Thou shalt not murder", however- minus the emotions- an equally simple statement, "i do not permit a women to teach", is subjected to such vigorous 'debate' which really is a way of going around about the houses and muddying the water enough to get away with having THEIR own opinion- which isnt actually there own- accepted (often to avoid having to offend others: FYI Jesus was very offensive to ungodly people: not because what he was saying was offensive, but because of how warped their own minds/ hearts were.
for example the argument, "women were less educated in pauls time" is such a weak argument that even hearing it- especially from Dr brown- whom though i disagree with on a lot of points on the topic, was very impressed with his arguments surrounding the debate between cessationism and continuationism- makes me angry: and if you dont understand why that is, i would encourage you to read your Bible more often, as it is founded in the notion that this society is closer to God than the one God shaped not only at the beginning of creation, but also His creation of the Jewish nation after the Exodus from Egypt.
Additionally, though it may not be apparently obvious, you have allowed the culture to shape your view as to what education is and also what right and wrong is.
But hey, at least you did it by: smashing the patriarchy.
shame on you.
Agree 💯 with all you stated
@@heyjaja72 Yep. Acts 2 and Gall. 3:28 could not be more clear.
I would suggest that they patriarchal culture we find in the Bible is not biblical at all but has pagan roots.
I suggest you're a simp
@@HIMYMTR The Bible was written in the cultural stew of patriarchy and Paul has had to adapt his teaching to the culture. From the beginning, God called both men and women to equally share in the authority of cultivating the earth and subduing it. Patriarchy began as a symptom of the fall. 10 years of graduate research in Theology hardly makes me a simpleton.
@@shannorwood8802 Ten years of wasted time and money.
Charity your question about women teacher...short answer is Paul is a false apostle, self proclaimed....he was never with Jesus and was never trained by Jesus !
the disciples affirmed Paul and his teachings.
@@christiang4497 By definition 'Apostle' was the one hand picked by Jesus not the one endorsed by others...
@@cosmicproductionsone7112 Apostle, from Greek apostolos, “person sent”; Gk. apostolos [ajpovstolo"]). Envoy, ambassador, or messenger commissioned to carry out the instructions of the commissioning agent. So yes, Jesus chose disciples, who later became apostles, but based upon the definition, I would not disqualify Paul either.
@@MsSongbird716 great ! Keep on enjoying his misogynist writings n teachings which actually clash with gospel spirit and even christ teachings.....by believing in Paul as an apostle you are choosing to believe in the doctrine of paul called 'paulism' and not true christianity.....
@@cosmicproductionsone7112 I read the word of God and rely on His Spirit to reveal truth to me. I think each and every one of us has the tendency to filter what we read through our own lens which is why we need the Spirit of God to help us. If Paul is a misogynist, so is Moses, so is everyone who wrote scripture. Do you not sense a second class citizenship of women in the majority of scripture? I do. And I'm not offended because I know that that is NOT the heart of God! When I read/study the bible I understand that the times and cultural contexts are relevant to the writers and that helps me understand some things better and others not at all 🤷🏽♀️ Let's remember that sin has bent mankind in a selfish, rebellious way and we needed Jesus to come make the crooked places straight! That is the current "status" of every human being, from the male chauvinist stuck in a misogynistic mindset to the woman pastor who truly believes she's called to preach and teach. God has a purpose for us all to be conformed to the image of Christ and that's the bigger part for me. I try not to stumble and trip over every argument or debate. I feel we do way too much of majoring in the minors in today's Christianity...that being said, may we never cease praying to God for help in the time of need!
false teacher
So, in your view, egalitarianism is "false," therefore we who promote it are "false teachers." And from our perspective, complementarianism and patriarchy are "false," therefore those who promote those views are "false teachers."
"Everybody is a false teacher to somebody," right?