Colt Model 1929 Prototype .276 Rifle, by Ed Browning
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- Опубліковано 17 жов 2024
- / forgottenweapons
centerofthewes...
On October 1, 1928, the US War Department published a request for semiautomatic rifle designs. The Colt company submitted this .276 caliber rifle to the ensuing trials in 1929. It was designed by Jonathan Edward "Ed" Browning (half brother of John Moses Browning) and was a recoil-operated, tilting bolt design weighing 9lb 9oz and using 108 parts. The tilting bolt system was derived from the 1911 pistol system as designed by John Moses Browning, and the operating system also used an accelerator reminiscent of JMB's Model 1917 and 1919 machine guns.
After the trials, the Colt 1929 rifle was deemed unfit for further testing by the Ordnance Department because of poor feeding, poor cooling ability, an overly long receiver and short barrel, too many parts, and being too heavy overall. Ed Browning would take the design back to his workshop and continue working on it, eventually replacing the short recoil operating system with an annular gas piston, and bringing it to the Winchester company in the late 1930s.
i logged into youtube first time in years just to thank you for making these videos, i've been watching em for years now but never actually commented in any of them ! so thank you for bringing up these videos to us and greetings from Northern Finland !
Thanks!
Thanks for explaining what an accelerator is. I always enjoy learning new mechanical aspects of firearms like that.
Ah, .276. The caliber that could've been.
Great video as always, Ian!
As always , just a thanks for making these videos , the histroy and the mechanical desigh is super interesting , hope you never run out of cool guns. This one I like because the design is good but as always you dont need to do just good you need a simple and dependable design and thats the hardest part.
I would really like to see you make a joint video with Hickok45. You 2 are my top gun guys on UA-cam.
Impossible. He's too tall, and we wouldn't fit in the same camera shot. :(
We can get you a box to match is height.
Pretty darn cool - thanks Ian and Cody Museum
Hey Ian, great video.
Simple question - do you reckon this accelerator is really useful during extraction or rather much more as a decelerator in the final stage of the cycle in order to slow down the bolt so that it doesn't slam into the shroud?
Thanks for another very interesting video. You do a great job of presentation and choice of subject material. Bravo!
This might be the coolest rifle you've ever shown on FW.
Because of all the vent holes
LFC303606 Hack fraud?
It's great for shooting varmints.
Jackmono1 That's true. The bullet moves so fast that when it hits the varmints, they explode.
I thought it the Most stupid rifle ever.
When coming up with solutions, complex is easy, simple is hard. This rifle is perhaps a bit too complex.
When I first saw this gun it made me think of the SVT-40. I'm not quite sure why.
awesome bit of kit
Hi Ian, maybe as a rifle it failed but it is indeed mechanically fascinating. Can we expect more prototypes from this era (or maybe pre WW1) ?
That is an amazingly interesting Rifle. It looks like the designer has taken the action from a Lee Navy Rifle and (quite extensively) redesigned it as an Auto loader while using another original Lee patent for the Detachable box Magazine. I imagine if the Rifle had been put into production they would have had to pay for quite a few Patent licenses to keep above board :-)
All of Lee's patents were long since expired by 1929...
I constantly amazed at all the ways men came up with to send a hunk of lead at high velocity through a tube . . .
I couldn't help but think of an atlatl when I saw how the accelerator works.
the locking surface seems kind of small. If it had made it to later in the trials somehow, I wonder if the design could have been scaled up to 30 06 with that locking area.
That's an awesome museum to visit.
Have you made a video/seen a 1873 Buntline Target? This gun looks very interesting to me and would like to see you show it off.
Holy hell this is one overly complicated rifle. There's so much going on there, it never had a hope of being accepted by the military. Bad news for Ed Browning, but good news for the rest of us as it does make a great museum piece.
Which is funny, because at first glance it looks pretty simple.
spraynpray Very true, but most of the changes were ergonomics related; safety location/design, trigger weight, sight changes. In order for this rifle to have had the slightest chance of being accepted, it would have required a near complete redesign of the entire mechanics of the weapon because it was just too complicated and far too involved to take it apart, let alone manufacture in the first place.
Really interesting but amazingly complicated.
Wow, that is one overly complicated gun. Far too many things going on. I can see he was trying to take what he felt were best features but all that added up to too much.
Thank again as always. Very informative, detailed look at a piece of firearm engineering history.
Feel the same. great ideas, overly complicated. It would be very practical if it could be simplified.
Agreed, too much going on for a weapon built for war
The first thing I noticed, long before Ian mentioned it, was the large distance between magazine and trigger.
Ian , from seeing your video , would I be wrong if I thought that it is actually the accelerator that pushes the tail of the bolt upwards (not just some tracks you mention) and unlocks it from the barrel while having a second role after that to push/ accelerate the whole , now unlocked , bolt back further ?
Ian, why do you think it had an accelerator? do you think it was an afterthought, or the original design called for an accelerator? Thanks for the great videos.
I expect it was in the original design.
Correct me if I'm wrong but the accelerator thing seems pretty similar to the FAMAS F1 accelerator to me (Even if the FAMAS is delayed blowback, and this is short recoil toggle locked) can we consider it the same. Or does it have a different purpose. isn't this accelerator design supposed to be invented by Pál Király as you said on your website ?
Ian you are doing god's work. Keep on keeping on
WHY? With all of the 3D CAD programs, have we not seen a company take all of these old designs, and work out the problems in many of these, and make modern versions of them?
In the case of this thing... You could shorten that bolt by about ⅓, and maybe by almost ½, and the “Return Spring” could likely be shortened as well, to provide for a much shorter receiver, overall, moving the magazine back toward the trigger guard.
And, speaking of magazine... Move the release OUT of the trigger guard.
But shortening the bolt would probably allow for the removal of the “accelerator,” leading to a probable extreme simplification of the internal parts.
It might also do to remove that barrel shroud, and build the sights in some other fashion.
But... In reference to my original comment... Maybe some of these trials rifles just aren’t worth reproducing.
The Pederson, White, Williams, Johnson, and other such Rifles would DEFINITELY be worth making modern reproductions of, though.
hey ian
do you by any chance gonna make a video on the russian ShKAS machine gun?
I think its a kinda very forgotten weapon. with not much videos covering the gun. I wanna see how the rotary feed actually grabs the chain. Or is it too hard to even find one in one piece?
this rifle reminds me of an sks, at least in the general shape of the receiver and charging handle. also the first few steps of disassembly.
I like it or better said many parts of it. Is there a copy of the diagrams available?
The accelerator broke my brain.
Keep on doin' what you do! Hey Ian, have you critiqued the M1919 AN/M2?
wow! the tail piece is hand forged.you can still I see the hammer tracks on it.it makes me wonder. 1,why wasn't it finished better with the file like aperently the bolt was?and 2, what other parts are hand forged.a good smith will forge as close to the finnished dimensions as possible. then true things up with the file, or in this case the milling machine. the rear end of the bolt looks like it was touched up with a file and then never polished. kinda sloppy if its gonna go to the Aberdeen proving grounds. oh to be a fly on the wall of that shop.
but which bits broke during the trials?
Manufacturing nightmare, especially in a time of war when quality needs to be forgiving and production times need to be short.
Another great vid fam!
Looking at these pre-WWII automatic rifles, despite of most of their beautiful built quality and materials, one can really start to value the beatiful simplicity of an AK-type rifle.. :D And with these "try&error" kinda rifles one often finds over-engineering going hand-in-hand with quite obvious faults such as this one's holes in the barrel shroud with larger holes in the furniture.. Making larger diameter slots on the surface of the weapon gather all the possible sand, mud, snow and grit and then drip it into smaller slots on the shroud filling the tight space between the recoiling barrel and the shroud with nothing smaller than gravel.. :D
Amazing back then they had better balistics with bullets yet chose to stick with traditional rounds . Your average soldier would have had a 100 yard advantage with a 7mm bullet yet they stick with the 7.62 for years . 2.80 Remington and similar rounds like this 276 dropped by the wayside
Ian am I right if i think we both got mistaken for a moment thinking that accelerator also unlocks the bolt from the barrel? :D
You sound nervous when your breaking that rifle down. Can't say I blame you
i like these "history of" videos.
Ian should do a podcast called "Ian Mccullom, Gloves Off"
does this use the .276 Enfield or .276 Pedersen?
Pedersen.
Interesting one here
Try getting your hands on a Chauchat Ribeyrolles 1918 SMG
Why was there a tail on the bolt with the spring housed in the butt stock? Why not have a spring behind the bolt like a SKS or SVT which also have tilting bolts. I guess I just couldn't pick out the function of that long tail device.
Because there wasn't a place for the spring to extend back in line with the bolt's direction of travel.
Just speculating but it could be that they needed a longer travel with a weaker spring, or it allowed them to have the action a little further back in the gun than having the spring elsewhere. Weight distribution maybe? Would like to see someone with more knowledge chime in.
The fact that an "accelerator" doesn't actually make the gun shoot faster is the biggest travesty of firearm engineering terminology.
9:30
Seems like a great place to store mud
Is it only me who Thinks some sirnames are more common then other when it comes to firearms inventors.
I spy with my little eye the accession number!!!! On the top side of the trigger guard.
I tried to support with Patreon but kept getting a "something went wrong- try again"
The accelerator looks like the one in the bolt of the M2 Browning HMG
Which is similar to the one in the M1917/M1919.
The M2 is basically a larger M1919.
Hell, if this rifle had a vertically sliding locking block, it would literally be a rifle version of the M1919.
If you could make a video on that winchester rifle from the same period, it would be very cool.
I think you had a picture on forgottenweapons.com previously. Tilting bolt, I believe. Very compact receiver.
www.forgottenweapons.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/winchestersemi2.jpg
This is the first of a series of 6 or 8 videos following the development of this rifle, which will be posting three per week.
+Forgotten Weapons great job
Love your work! Looking forward to watching the coming content!
Did anyone in the Browning family NOT make firearms? Or at least anyone named John or Johnathon?
3:39 Push the barrel into its shroud. Barrel shroud. Ian don't you mean shoulder thing that goes up?
Way to many parts cleaning it would be a nightmare.
Does this also need lubed cartridges like the pederson rifle?
Impossibear the action that the Pedersen rifle used is what facilitated the need for lubricated cartridges.
love you
Holy shit I feel like I just watched a Ruth Goldberg machine
Could a company make a modern working model of these obscure semiautomatic rifles? If it is possible then why hasn't someone done it yet
Some of these designs are too expensive to promise a solid return from the niche market they cover. Machining for complex parts in small numbers drives up the price. If you had to, for example, produce a Pedersen rifle you'd be looking at 4 or 5k per unit for a market that is arguably smaller than the one for a high-end racing gun of the same cost.
+DiggingForFacts couldn't a company modify the parts to allow for easier production and better function of the rifle, so it looks like the original rifle but have improvements to it, like fixing the problems that caused it to fail in the first place?
Sure, there are many ways in which this design or others could be simplified or fixed. However, the overarching issue is not possibility, but feasability. You can't cut cost on certain materials such as stock wood and you still have to convince a company that they can make a reasonable profit on the weapon. In this case a weapon that most people have never heard of, in a calibre that is both largely forgotten and expensive to buy new, with a system that is more compicated to maintain and more obscure than a straight gas piston or DI and sell it for a price that doesn't make it prohibitively expensive to people who have to be able to rationalise a large expenditure of their income. That is a very hard sell to make to a company executive. This is why remaking things like the FG-42 and STG-44 in semi-only has some viability, because those weapons are famous to a larger section of the buying public and as such more likely to see sales. Even then, they are still relatively small-scale projects compared to the average new intermediate cartridge sporting rifle.
+DiggingForFacts that's depressing, I'd love a gun that looked like that with maybe a modified/modernized qualities (such as a more modern caliber, rails for optics and maybe a polymer stock) much like people have done with guns like the sks and the mini14
Sooo, what about the Suomi KP/-31 submachine gun... You know, one of the best smg in ww2.. Seems that it has became truly a Forgotten Weapon. You know, being are forefather to PPSh-41 it would interenting video to see. And while making video of Lahti-designed gun, could also make a video of Lahti L-35 pistol. Seems like the those very fine guns have been neglegted for far too long!!!
wow 1k likes and 0 dislikes good job people lol
"He had talent... not as much as John Moses".... to be fair, who did?
have you ever broken a gun while taking a look at it?
Nope.
Most impressive