From my experience in games, Moon Druids indeed are broken at levels 2-4. Once you've hit level 5 though, most other classes have caught up, and each level beyond the druids fall further behind. that said I haven't seen any Moon Druids above level 11, so I don't know if any of the stronger elemental forms can tip the scales - that is with an exception of a level 20 one shot I ran where I wouldn't call the Moon Druid in that "OP". Don't get me wrong, they were near impossible to hurt so in that sense sure they were, but their offensive capability wasn't all that impressive, so the player kind of regretted playing them since it felt like they didn't do too much.
That's a good point about the offensive shortcomings of the Druid, and I guess that even the most broken class have their limitations. Perhaps multiclassing with Wizards, as Mark Lewis says in another comment, could boost the Druid's damage if you wanted a more offensive build?
@@dungeonmastiff6616 Possibly, but I'm pretty sure there are much better multiclass combos, and if the druid loses even 1 level then they miss out on the capstone of unlimited Wildshape.
Druids are powerful but not broken. For broken u need wizard. (Not that i would piss off the dm by doing this but...) There are combos for wizard that give u infitite money, and at highest level there are even infinite wish combos, and u could even transform urself into an ancient dragon...
Yeah, wizards are extremely powerful, and you're right, very broken. Maybe in a part 2, I could talk about the wizard? Would that be something that you would like to see?
Glad to se 15 years later D&D still has Druid as the most broken class. Not going to lie I only watched this video until the announcement that druid won again. Also, 5th edition seems to be just a dumbed down version? Am I wrong?
Yep, Druids have been pretty broken for a while, and that's not changing any time soon. Also, I guess that 5e was created with the intention of being simpler than 4e, because that was a very complex rule system.
It's a tie... Wizards and Druids (20th level) are the most powerful in DnD. The optimized Wizard vs the Optimized Druid is (IMO) a stalemate. In a battle-royal... the (optimally) run Wizard is the only one who can beat an (optimally) run Druid and vice-versa. Just 1 example is Simulacrum vs Wild Shape, but many other challenges exist. It's infinite spells vs infinite Wild Shape. Because both CAN be achieved. No other Class, (caster or not) can even come close to the Wizard and Druid in true power. Just for gits and shiggles... a multi-classed Wizuid (or Druizard if reversed) is really strong too. With Wizard (13) & Druid (7) levels, respectively... but again... 20 levels of Wizard or Druid alone is optimally much better! But believe whatever you like... and play whatever you like!
Thanks for letting me know about how overpowered the Wizard is - I never thought that using Simulacrum could be so OP! Maybe if I make a part 2 video to this, I could talk about the Wizard?
Strong disagree. In my experience the only overpowered druid is the moon druid and wizards can't heal - plus if you want more spells than just the 2 you get per level with wizard - the wizard becomes a major money sink. How often do you play at 20th level? I have had 2 total sessions as a 20th level character. It was like being a God and the dm had a bad time. Most commonly used levels should play a role in determining power level - because you want something that's powerful during the most optimum levels of play. 6-10 is where I think that is. That's typically where most long term players spend their time. The characters are powerful and unique at that level - but not unkillable. Moon druids definitely rock at that level - and may be one of the most powerful - but there's one thing you aren't considering. The Bard. Specifically - Lore Bard. At level 6 - the Lore Bard gets Additional Magical Secrets. This allows them to choose any spell - including ones specifically designed for half-casters. And they get those spells way before the half-casters do. They can also heal. Also - all of their spells cost absolutely nothing. This gives them a slim advantage over wizards that becomes a much greater advantage when you consider the wizard can't heal at all. The Lore Bard also gets a feature at level 3 called cutting words. This is simply the best 3rd level ability in the game for defense - maybe even the best 3rd level ability in the game if not for the Echo Knight fighter. Combine this with Counterspell at 6th level and nothing will ever hit your party without your DM meta-gaming the shit out of the session or fudging rolls. I also did a lot of research to back this up. While the Lore Bard is the most powerful subclass from the Bard - the base Bard class is also the best base class in the game. I'm not just saying that without evidence. The dungeon dudes did a video series on best classes for each role and thought of seven roles for the game. Out of the seven roles they discussed - the bard caught a total of 4 S rankings between the two hosts and was frequently at the top of the tier list for audience rankings in the videos. They performed better - by far - than any other class in the most roles - with the audience and the co-hosts. No matter which way I decide to interpret the data from that video series - the Bard is far and away the clear winner for best class. Their power isn't limited by the damage they are capable of - it also extends into roleplay. Moon Druid is definitely a strong contender for most powerful subclass with the Lore Bard - I'd even say the moon druid might be better. But - looking at the base druid class - I can't say the same for the rest of the subclasses. My Lore Bard was the Bard I played with at level 20. One of my spells that I took for free was simulacrum. I duplicated my lore bard and gained 12 cutting words - twice the amount of counterspells I normally have - and a BOATLOAD of healing spells - and if my simulacrum went down - I had a wish spell in my back pocket that I also got for free that I could use to instacast simulacrum again. I also had the spell meteor shower and got to use it once to take out Cthulu himself. It was fun - I blew his arm off. This is basically the same strategy as being a wizard but I can also heal. I was a monster and after I blew off Cthulu's arm - my DM had us do one more session and then we began a new campaign. I got to play that bard for 2 years. So much fun. Yes - the Bard has fewer options than the wizard does as far as spells go - but honestly magical secrets covers enough spells to make up for the weakness of the Bard's limited spell list quite easily - as long as you read the spells you take first.
@@benjaminwoodham6682 TL;DR but I read some. My 20th level Wizard will beat your 20th level Bard easily. How many times have I played to 20th level? 3 campaigns and multiple Battle Royals we've played for fun against each other. We have 4 DMs in our group of 10 with 3 of the 10 playing since the 70's (myself being one). Druids and Wizards are demonstrably the most powerful. BTW... Wizards can heal (sort of) if you know what your doing. Have fun... However you play! 👍
@@MarkLewis... At level 20 the winner would be the first to win the initiative roll. We'd both have wish and would just back up beyond counterspell range and wish the other was dead or incapacitated.
Problem with you description of the coffeelock. You can't stockpile Sorcery points like that. You can only have a number equal to your sorcerer level at anytime. It's still strong, but it doesn't quite work the way people soeem to think it does.
![Lp. Сердце Вселенной #60 РОЖДЕНИЕ ЛОЛОЛОШКИ [Финал] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YoR0pAV9FVQ/mqdefault.jpg)
Adding a comment for a algorithm, also I liked and subscribed. Keep working my man!
Thanks! Will do!
From my experience in games, Moon Druids indeed are broken at levels 2-4.
Once you've hit level 5 though, most other classes have caught up, and each level beyond the druids fall further behind.
that said I haven't seen any Moon Druids above level 11, so I don't know if any of the stronger elemental forms can tip the scales - that is with an exception of a level 20 one shot I ran where I wouldn't call the Moon Druid in that "OP". Don't get me wrong, they were near impossible to hurt so in that sense sure they were, but their offensive capability wasn't all that impressive, so the player kind of regretted playing them since it felt like they didn't do too much.
That's a good point about the offensive shortcomings of the Druid, and I guess that even the most broken class have their limitations. Perhaps multiclassing with Wizards, as Mark Lewis says in another comment, could boost the Druid's damage if you wanted a more offensive build?
@@dungeonmastiff6616 Possibly, but I'm pretty sure there are much better multiclass combos, and if the druid loses even 1 level then they miss out on the capstone of unlimited Wildshape.
Druids are powerful but not broken. For broken u need wizard. (Not that i would piss off the dm by doing this but...) There are combos for wizard that give u infitite money, and at highest level there are even infinite wish combos, and u could even transform urself into an ancient dragon...
Yeah, wizards are extremely powerful, and you're right, very broken. Maybe in a part 2, I could talk about the wizard? Would that be something that you would like to see?
Glad to se 15 years later D&D still has Druid as the most broken class. Not going to lie I only watched this video until the announcement that druid won again. Also, 5th edition seems to be just a dumbed down version? Am I wrong?
Yep, Druids have been pretty broken for a while, and that's not changing any time soon. Also, I guess that 5e was created with the intention of being simpler than 4e, because that was a very complex rule system.
@@dungeonmastiff6616 can you do a video comparing 5E and 3.5?
For sure! I'll add it to the list - I have one ready to come out this weekend, then I'll do the comparison video after that!
It's a tie... Wizards and Druids (20th level) are the most powerful in DnD. The optimized Wizard vs the Optimized Druid is (IMO) a stalemate. In a battle-royal... the (optimally) run Wizard is the only one who can beat an (optimally) run Druid and vice-versa.
Just 1 example is Simulacrum vs Wild Shape, but many other challenges exist. It's infinite spells vs infinite Wild Shape. Because both CAN be achieved. No other Class, (caster or not) can even come close to the Wizard and Druid in true power.
Just for gits and shiggles... a multi-classed Wizuid (or Druizard if reversed) is really strong too. With Wizard (13) & Druid (7) levels, respectively... but again... 20 levels of Wizard or Druid alone is optimally much better!
But believe whatever you like... and play whatever you like!
Thanks for letting me know about how overpowered the Wizard is - I never thought that using Simulacrum could be so OP! Maybe if I make a part 2 video to this, I could talk about the Wizard?
@@dungeonmastiff6616 😎👍 combine with True Polymorph... Wizards are just as powerful if not more!
Strong disagree. In my experience the only overpowered druid is the moon druid and wizards can't heal - plus if you want more spells than just the 2 you get per level with wizard - the wizard becomes a major money sink.
How often do you play at 20th level? I have had 2 total sessions as a 20th level character. It was like being a God and the dm had a bad time. Most commonly used levels should play a role in determining power level - because you want something that's powerful during the most optimum levels of play. 6-10 is where I think that is. That's typically where most long term players spend their time. The characters are powerful and unique at that level - but not unkillable.
Moon druids definitely rock at that level - and may be one of the most powerful - but there's one thing you aren't considering.
The Bard. Specifically - Lore Bard. At level 6 - the Lore Bard gets Additional Magical Secrets. This allows them to choose any spell - including ones specifically designed for half-casters. And they get those spells way before the half-casters do. They can also heal. Also - all of their spells cost absolutely nothing. This gives them a slim advantage over wizards that becomes a much greater advantage when you consider the wizard can't heal at all.
The Lore Bard also gets a feature at level 3 called cutting words. This is simply the best 3rd level ability in the game for defense - maybe even the best 3rd level ability in the game if not for the Echo Knight fighter. Combine this with Counterspell at 6th level and nothing will ever hit your party without your DM meta-gaming the shit out of the session or fudging rolls.
I also did a lot of research to back this up. While the Lore Bard is the most powerful subclass from the Bard - the base Bard class is also the best base class in the game. I'm not just saying that without evidence. The dungeon dudes did a video series on best classes for each role and thought of seven roles for the game. Out of the seven roles they discussed - the bard caught a total of 4 S rankings between the two hosts and was frequently at the top of the tier list for audience rankings in the videos. They performed better - by far - than any other class in the most roles - with the audience and the co-hosts. No matter which way I decide to interpret the data from that video series - the Bard is far and away the clear winner for best class.
Their power isn't limited by the damage they are capable of - it also extends into roleplay.
Moon Druid is definitely a strong contender for most powerful subclass with the Lore Bard - I'd even say the moon druid might be better. But - looking at the base druid class - I can't say the same for the rest of the subclasses.
My Lore Bard was the Bard I played with at level 20. One of my spells that I took for free was simulacrum. I duplicated my lore bard and gained 12 cutting words - twice the amount of counterspells I normally have - and a BOATLOAD of healing spells - and if my simulacrum went down - I had a wish spell in my back pocket that I also got for free that I could use to instacast simulacrum again. I also had the spell meteor shower and got to use it once to take out Cthulu himself. It was fun - I blew his arm off. This is basically the same strategy as being a wizard but I can also heal. I was a monster and after I blew off Cthulu's arm - my DM had us do one more session and then we began a new campaign. I got to play that bard for 2 years. So much fun.
Yes - the Bard has fewer options than the wizard does as far as spells go - but honestly magical secrets covers enough spells to make up for the weakness of the Bard's limited spell list quite easily - as long as you read the spells you take first.
@@benjaminwoodham6682 TL;DR but I read some. My 20th level Wizard will beat your 20th level Bard easily. How many times have I played to 20th level? 3 campaigns and multiple Battle Royals we've played for fun against each other. We have 4 DMs in our group of 10 with 3 of the 10 playing since the 70's (myself being one). Druids and Wizards are demonstrably the most powerful. BTW... Wizards can heal (sort of) if you know what your doing.
Have fun... However you play! 👍
@@MarkLewis... At level 20 the winner would be the first to win the initiative roll. We'd both have wish and would just back up beyond counterspell range and wish the other was dead or incapacitated.
In terms of role play encounters the bard is unbeatable, and being one of the best in terms of support makes it even better.
Problem with you description of the coffeelock. You can't stockpile Sorcery points like that. You can only have a number equal to your sorcerer level at anytime. It's still strong, but it doesn't quite work the way people soeem to think it does.
Actually ALL DRUIDS can Wild Shape more often than you think.
Ugh, druids. Dirty Bush Bards.