in terms of electronics repair work, 'sodder' isn't a word in the common english dictionary. look up the word 'sodder' and it means something completely different (rather bad and derogatory.... f...ker). in the english dictionary 'solder' has an L and it's not silent. Please try to improve your english skills so that noobs don't start soddering stuff without actually knowing the true meaning of that word. From the dictionary.... Sodder: An incorrect term for 'soldering', usually used by idiots, or people with 'labtop' computers. Soldering is the process of joining metals with by using heat to melt a filler metal often made from tin and copper. Soldering is often used for making electrical connections in electronics, as well as being used in other metalwork. Incorrect use: "I need some more sodder for my soddering iron"
@@LyonsArcade No idea, nor do I even care. I'm in Australia :-) My point is the word you are using isn't in the dictionary. It wouldn't be the first time someone in the US made up a word to win a pi55ing contest, but I'm king of that realm so there's no point even trying to ;-)
This is one of the most entertaining episodes I've seen on this channel and I'm a regular watcher for like a year or two. You two had some fun and it's contagious.
Ron - Great overview on how to test, rebuild, and update/upgrade the solenoid driver board. I am just starting a full restoration on a Bally $6M Dollar Man and this video provided great insight into what to check, update, and upgrade on the board. A big THANK You for putting together these videos.
Speaking as an Electrical Engineer (Hi Matt!), I can offer a little insight on the grounding thing… The biggest issue here is that every bit of current that flows from the power supply (I.e., the main transformer) has to return to the power supply. The only way it can return is over a ground path. The ground isn’t a “reference voltage”, it’s an active current return path. For some reason, a big chunk of the industry - designers and engineers who should have known better - ignored this rule. Lots of boards had just one, or if you were lucky, two, ground pins. As chip counts went up, current flow went up, and the voltage drop across a pin and a skinny wire really started to cause problems. Ron, tying together ground wires just helps. You know what you could do to make things even better? Add MORE ground wires. There’s some out there that are reeling in horror at me saying that, but it’s just good engineering! Scratch off some solder mask from a central area, attach a wire, and run it back to the ground point on the transformer. I’d bet you’d never have an issue with that machine in the future.
Exactly how does the back panel get its ground, Ron said the pcb board is screwed into the back panel and that is how it gets its ground, maybe it is the other video, but even so is there a wire that is connected to the silver panel that goes to the transformer? thank you
Jas, you would have to have Ron check, but usually that back plate is connected to the ground at the transformer. Effectively, the whole back of the box is a ground plane. In current designs, the electrical engineers use multi-layer printed circuit boards with an entire inner layer being a sheet of copper connected to ground. It does the same thing.
As another Electrical Engineer...@David Williams is exactly right. What you really want is a more reliable and better ground back to the source. By tying your grounds together you are, sort of, doing that by, in this board's case, having three ground wires plus the back plate. However, by not isolating them on the board, you don't offer any protection between the various power rails (or noise isolation). Let's say one of your solenoid's diode fails, its back EMF is coming back and will be able to tickle the 5VDC stuff too. Conversely, if it had to flow back to the transformer and the ground reference for the system, it would flow there, not back up to the 5VDC or some other power source that won't want to see it. So, if your mod was to add dedicated, decent sized, ground wires soldered to their respective points for good connection and run them down to the ground, you'd get the better ground and keep the supplies from sharing their noise. You can use a (better) connector, in-line to allow for serviceability. When measuring the input voltage off the transformer, please know that its voltage will be based on its rated load. If you don't have that transformer loaded, it is going to read high.
Ron, you are just fine with your grounds, “sodder” and divining rods! Actual work experience in the real world will teach us things some haven’t learned. Keeping an open mind and trying to learn how or why crazy things work from someone with experience is the way. Thanks for sharing your experience with us.
Hy Ron,sorry for bad english.When you have 10A/12V transformer ,12V is at 10A load.Under 12V is overloaded and higher 12v is underloaded ( without light and other consumption,logics,solenoids etc)you now that,but no all knows.
33:10 lowering the cap value will cause the voltage to sink faster under load. So the excess voltage is likely not caused by it being 11000 instead of 11700. And, replacing it with 15000 is highly unlikely to cause any issues. A higher value of capacitor just holds the voltage high longer, but doesn't inherently increase it in any way that is practically relevant. The maximum voltage the cap will be charged to is the peak voltage of the source, minus rectifier losses which you can estimate to be between 1,2 and 2V in normal operating conditions. I think if the transformer outputs nominally 12V AC, having 15ish V out of the rectifier and cap is well in the tolerance. With little load, the rectifier output can creep up to 40ish % over the nominal voltage. That is a property of AC and rectification.
Peak voltage...unloaded , ideal rectifiers...1.414 ( square root of two) times the rms voltage.( assuming sinusoidal ac). So 12V rms ac would be 16.98 Volts Less 4 diode forward voltage . Say 0.6 V thus 2.4V would suggest 14.58 V. Point is every thing has a tolerance...especially the incoming line voltage
@@LyonsArcade For a filter cap, a high value only becomes a problem when the inrush at power on damages the rectifier diodes. As long as you don't go too big, bigger is better ;)
I used a bent piece of metal wire to find broken irrigation lines while working for the city. I had no idea i was doing wizard magic.. I was shown what to do and it worked. That summer i dug up and replaced tons of broken PVC... later on I found out i was doing wizard stuff but it just worked for me IDK. Also there was a man at my church that was a well driller that hired an old man to dowse for wells for him. He had a very successful business and again i had no idea he was using a wizard to help him hahaha. Also I'm an engineer if that add anything to my argument :)
Great ep. Floating ground between areas on the circuit board. Not ideal design but can eliminate cross talk between IC's which probably explains this kludge.
Was it me or did the board look holographic during the talk about divining rods? Whenever the camera moved, the board looked like one of the old holographic pictures. Great video as always
the DC rectified voltage should be about 1.4x higher (minus diode drops in the bridge) of the AC voltage coming out of the transformer. i.e. a 10V winding will give you 14V - 1.2V of diodes or so for a final total of 12.8V. If the transformer's outputting higher voltages, maybe it's set up for 115V mode instead of 120V mode. the manual shows wiring for both.
My dad used to witch water as a kid. They would use elm or cotton wood sticks, some type of wood that was normally a "wet" wood and they were pretty good at finding water weather in a pipeline or spring. I never tried it but I know those who have done it successfully.
From my virtual pinball building experience, which is limited, tying all the grounds together sets a common “reference voltage” so there are no floating grounds. Just like you were saying. 🤷♂️
Audio and high-speed digital circuits are different. As for general power supplies and this application, I am with you in tying the grounds together. That helps the current draw across the contacts and equalizes the current draw and allows and would be a better failsafe. It would reduce issues like arcing and resistance on the contacts. So with multiple paths, an occasional loose connection would wear out slower. As for capacitors, if you mean the first capacitors, the size doesn't really matter. Generally, the larger there, the better for overall filtering, IMHO, but it might be good to have smaller ones in parallel for faster reaction times for smaller ripples. That is done on digital circuits where you have an electrolytic capacitor out of the voltage regulator, but then ceramic capacitors on that same trace to every Vcc connection and Ground of each chip. So you have a global filtering capacitor and smaller local decoupling capacitors. On transformers, unless there are shorted windings or overheating issues, I wouldn't expect them to drift up. But, you might run on a higher voltage than what it was built around. Like things were made more for 110, but you are getting 120-126. And also, you might have higher power than normal in an area such as on certain days of the week. For instance, some folk living near mills would end up with blown CRTs in TVs because they'd get 150 volts on the weekends. The mills would be pulling the most power during the week and everything is calibrated to the mills being fully operational. So when they are running at minimal levels, the power will surge for a couple of days.
That's pretty wild about the mills, I'll have to remember that. Very interesting.... Only thing I've heard about making the filter capacitor TOO big, is that it may strain the regulator but i'm not sure how. So I try to just go up a little bit not a ton, and it seems it helps with things like bulbs flickering, etc. a little bit if you have a 15k in there instead of 11k. When you hit the flippers the lights dim, but not as much with the bigger capacitor (it seems)...
@@LyonsArcade -- Yes, power engineers have to account for all sorts of things, and if something that's assumed to be a constant value changes unexpectedly, you can run into problems. One thing that folks sometimes forget about when dealing with large caps is safe handling. There are times when you'd need to unplug a unit and short out the large capacitors to be able to safely touch a circuit. This is necessary to know working with CRTs too. The coating on a CRT forms a capacitor, so one would need to jumper between the 2nd anode lead and the ground, and due to the resistance in the coating, I'd leave the jumper wire in place until one is finished servicing things. A way to visualize what is happening there is to have many capacitors nearly in parallel with all the grounds (or hot leads) tied together, and the other leads connected together through resistors. So you'd discharge an area only to slowly recharge it from the discharge of another area. So one would do best to keep the leads shorted instead of just drawing an arc. But one must not forget to remove the jumper. As for how too large can strain things, that might be more during startup. The larger the capacitor, the longer a circuit would act like it has a dead short. So you have a sudden current spike and voltage drop when the capacitor is initially charging. You can see this effect on an analog multimeter. The needle will peg and then drift down.
I'm sure it'll be booting in no time. 27:50 couple options on digi-key for potentiometers like what you're looking for. Passives->Potentiometers->Thumbwheel Potentiometers have some with big wheels. Perhaps a nicer option, look at Passives->Potentiometers->Trimmer Potentiometers then in the parametric search box for "Adjustment Type" choose "Top Finger Adjustment". Something like 3386F-1-103TLF looks like it'd work well, that particular one is 10k but of course other values are available in the series.
5V regulator has its own tolerance between nominal input and output voltage. If input voltage is higher it is possible that out is little higher also. That's why there is a pull up resistor, in some service manuals is additional note said that pull up resistor should be replaced if voltage is too high or too low.
It's pretty common to have separate ground wires for analog and digital circuits, to keep big currents on the analog side from messing up the ground levels on the digital side. That's the theory anyway.
I think it works the other way too. The digital noise could bias the analog signal. Not sure. In this case, for reliability reasons, I'd join them to increase reliability and increase the current paths. So if it comes in at 2-3 pins instead of one, you'd have less likelihood of burning the connectors. I mean, if 80% of the current is getting through one, having 2 would drop that resistance load to 10% or less instead of 20%. And with 3, that would be like 7%. Okay, I'm not explaining that right, but having more paths would make it more reliable and reduce resistance/heat on the connections. And even a weak connection would contribute some to the path and reduce the load on the other pins.
That's our main idea for joining them, we're just trying to keep 1 bad connector from crashing the board... when a pinball board hangs up, sometimes it makes coils lock on too and if the coil stays on more than two or three seconds it fries the coil and the transistor driving it.... so we're trying to make sure that if there's resistance somewhere or a ground differential the board doesn't hang up because it literally is catastrophic.
@@LyonsArcade -- I totally get that. And sometimes, with the original designs, it isn't just 1 bad connector, but 2-3. I mean things like looping the power/ground off the board and then back on, increasing the points of failure. So yeah, I'd mod that on the board (and perhaps in the wiring harness with another wire or jumper on that side too), thus using the connectors in parallel rather than series and in ways that maintain compatibility.
When I clean circuit boards before I repair them I use ambersil foam cleaner and then rinse them under a tap and then you can use an air dryer or an heat gun to dry it off
Thank you Simon.. .the other day I cleaned a Centipede board and just ran it under the water and let it dry off, it was so filthy I had to do something or it never would have worked. Thanks for watching (as always)
When you say resolder the pins, do you just melt the existing solder and add a little more or do you suck the old stuff out and put in completely new stuff?
IDK why so many people love to give you so much crap Ron that has to be draining. But either way I'm learning so much from your videos regardless of what the know it all trolls say
You should take a board and clean it in the dishwasher (seal off relays if present), then put it in an oven at 170° til dry. Then use it in one of your repairs!
Ron, I have had a few of these Bally SDB's where the voltage was a little too high and replacing the 5V regulator fixed the problem. I've never had to cut R49 or jumper R50.
Your videos are great. Starting to get my Silverball Mania machine working reliably. It no longer will boot. TP1 on the rectifier board is delivering only 3.2v DC. I understand that this is enough to get the led to light but not get the MPU to boot? Is it reasonable to believe BR1 is the problem? All other voltages are fine other than TP2 which is 185. I understand that this is high enough. TIA
Test Point 1 on the rectifier board (which is the one by the transformer).... is 5.4 volts, that actually runs the lamps and doesn't have anything to do with the board booting. Test Point 2 is 230volts, 185 is fine because it's what's used to make the voltage for the displays. (also not really needed to boot).... test point 3 is 12volts DC which is then sent to the solenoid driver board, where it is made into 5 volts. The MPU board needs 12 volts to light up the LED, but it won't flash... it needs the 5 volts that the solenoid driver board creates to make the board boot (and blink the LED).... Test your voltages on the mpu at the test points, you should have a 12, and a 5... for the board to completely boot you also need the solenoid voltage (43) but it will blink several times without this voltage.
@@LyonsArcade Thanks so much. After I didn't find proper voltages on the other, I went back to the rectifier board and find that all of my voltages are now nowhere close to what they should be. I also confirmed that no fuses blew. Do you recommend replacing the entire board or just the bridge rectifiers? It looks as if replacing the rectifiers would actually be less soldering.
@@LyonsArcade actually science disproved the flat Earth concept. But if I’m paying $40,000.00 to drill a well based on dowsing, give me good old science every time, and I live in Michigan. It occurs to me that Michigan should be able a dowsers paradise.🤔
One thing. When thinking about the regulator. These are not magic. 40 v in 5 v out means 35 v to loose. So 35 watts for every amp used at 5 v( by the CPU etc) Just take care if pushing those linear regs.
To be honest, divining rods have not been scientifically proven. If you hold a rod, the slightest movement of the hand makes the rod move. There is no scientific evidence :). Solder Migration, particularly silver migration within solder joints is scientifically proven :). I love these little bits of banter you throw in though. Lots of fun :). Regarding the transformer, the issue is not the transformer, the MAINS voltage is hotter now. It use to be around 115V, but these days it is between 120 and 125V in most states. This makes the output of a transformer higher as the input to output is a fixed ratio. I think Matt just said that as I typed this lol. I didn't wait till the end ::)
Well of course they can't scientifically prove dowsing, they don't have the Shine! You have to have the shine to do it :) I can't figure out though if the regulators should throw that voltage right to 5 volts no matter if the voltage is higher or not on the input, you'd think that it would still come out 5 volts even if the input was higher than it really was designed to be. Others have said they replaced the regulator and it lowered it back down but I'm pretty sure I've done that many times, i'll have to purposefully do it in a video and see for sure.
@@LyonsArcade if they didn't have the additional resistors, then it should lock at 5v but the additional resistors act as a sort of voltage divider, I think, looking at it, and do allow a little variation. Once you remove that nasty one that ups to to 5.4v it should lock at the 5.1 or 5.2 regardless though as you eliminate that part. Adjusting the resistor to ground would tweak the voltage, in theory. That said, 5.1 or even 5.2 is fine for the TTL logic on these older boards.
@@LyonsArcade You don't need shine to make it work you just need to live on a planet where the surface is more than 70% water. That percentage will obviously vary depending where you are and what the weather has been like in the past few days so you could say dowsing is about as accurate as the percentage of water around you. If you're in a swamp or an ocean then its about 100% accurate but if you're in a desert it will be much less depending mostly on the weather... As for the shine, I can only get mine from the liquor store down the road... but your success may vary depending on how much shine you've had. ;P
@@LyonsArcade Oh, and to add to what others have said... Even thought the 5v regulator is a fixed voltage regulator they can still be tuned to slightly higher voltages like variable regulators by adding resistors to the ground pin like in the schematic. The reason one might do this is for circuit stability and not just losses in the wiring on the PCB. Switching noise generated on power lines on the PCB when the circuit is operating can cause momentary voltage dropouts and a slightly higher voltage can counter that. Bypass capacitors next to each chip can take care of some of the noise but fast switching and bad caps can cause momentary power droops that can cause random logic issues or even a CPU that doesn't boot or crashes randomly. So 4.8 to 5.3 volts is normal supply voltage on a 5v logic PSU. That 5.4v is pushing a little harder and still within the 6 or 7 volt absolute maximum of most 7400 series chips but the circuit board of course might need it slightly higher than 5v for stability.
Just to point out it the big guys are a bulk capacitors. It allows for big power draws without needing a huge transformer. You could probably get away with anything 10,000 - 30,000.
Metals can do weird things. I think there is a phenomenon called "bearding." That is when certain metals "grow" protrusions over time. It might be related to electrical and mechanical stresses, but even scientists don't really know why. That can be a problem when you "grow" solder bridges and get shorts.
Floating the regulator's ground reference up a bit is a good away to tweak up the output a bit- will work for all those 3 terminal regulators, though I would expect the regulation might suffer a little. Have to be really careful with xformer outputs when working on tube systems- no regulators in those systems so a few volts more because of a 120v source instead of 115v and you can start to burn stuff up.
Yes. Watching other channels such as Mr. Carlson's Lab, you see folks who repair/restore tube radios often modify how power comes in. A common mod is changing the original cord to have a polarized plug. That way, if you come in contact with the chassis, you only touch the ground/neutral and not hot. Plus a lot of those chassis-grounded units had the switch tied to the chassis. So they were often more dangerous to handle when they were turned off. Another way to burn stuff up in tube systems is to have bad capacitors. So the best thing to do if one acquired a tube set that hasn't been restored is to not turn it on until all the paper-wax capacitors and the electrolytic capacitors have been replaced. The mica capacitors might need to be replaced too, but they are not in the power-critical sections, usually just the tuning-critical sections. If you change those unnecessarily, you may find that alignment will take longer to do and might not reach the desired outcome. So changing frequency-critical capacitors might, in some cases, make it impossible to make the stations match the numbers on the dial. And then again, you might have no other choice since they really are bad.
The resistor in the ground leg thing used to be a standard way to tweak the output voltage. The theory is (when new) the regulator ensures there is 5V between the output & its ground pin. This means there is a regulated 5V across that 100R, so a defined current through that of 5/100 = 50mA. This also runs through the 2.2R, lifting the ground pin to 2.2*0.05 = 0.11V. Note that as the 100R is on the *output* side of the regulator the input voltage does not affect it. I suspect the actual issue is aging of the regulator - it is having to dissipate a lot of power being a linear regulator, so it will run quite hot - and hot causes aging! As pinball fanatic says replacing that regulator is probably a better idea than chopping the resistor off, as if the regulator is going out of spec it probably should not be trusted any more.
Another way to lower the voltage is to place diodes in series, whether to the ground of the regulator to raise the voltage (since less is returning to the regulator) or in series with the output to lower things a tiny amount. And yes, I agree with you. I'd consider replacing the regulator first. If things are still too out of specs, that is when you play with the resistors.
@@PlumGurly I am also wondering if a lot of the increase is down to increased leakage through the regulator to ground - that would cause more current through the 2.2R hence raising the voltage even further
Yep, I believe lifting the ground even shows up in the app notes section of TI's 780X datasheet. Concur on the reg probably dying too, on the fairly rare occasion when I find something vintage and hard-dead, if it's not a blown diode it's a blown linear reg.
The people who designed these boards are electrical engineers and they definitely know what they’re doing because they have to have at least four years of college if not more
Using a larger capacitor is like using a two-gallon bucket when you only need it to hold one gallon of water. It'll work fine. P.S. I could "witch" water by rolling dice, but not reliably.
Generally a larger filter cap is better, but increasing it unnecessarily may in some cases require you to put in a sturdier rectifier and fuse. It can also cause the circuit to come up to voltage too slow. Also after turning the device off, the large cap may not bleed at a sufficient rate. This can manifest as anything between something cosmetic like afterglow from displays, and a non-bootable system if one component takes longer than expected to boot or produces erroneous states when receiving borderline sufficient voltage for an extended time.
@@jussikuusela7345 I was thinking of using a lager size, within reason… I wouldn't suggest replacing an 11,000 µF capacitor with say a 5 Farad capacitor, but replacing it with a 15,000 µF capacitor is just fine.
@@jussikuusela7345 -- Well, in the case of taking too long, one may then have to wire in a power supervisor to keep the microcontroller held in reset until the power is high enough and stable. And yes, such complexity can be avoided by staying within reasonable specs.
Yea, star grounds are just made up to give you a hard time.... in this application star grounds probably do not matter to much ---- soolllddddeeerrr all thoose grounds together. like you said how many pinball machines have you fixed!!
You should have a vacuum line and a compressed air line to suck off the dust and them spray compressed air to clean the boards We did this for cleaning up computers before working on them It kept the dust in the air to a minimum We used washable static air filters to clean the air to get the dust floating around
I tried to replace the pin connectors on the rectifier board of the power supply. When I turned on the machine it burned the heck out of the board under the connectors. I ordered a new rectifier board. Installed new board and everything is ok. I have never seen the pins replaced before. Please show us how to remove and install the large pins on power supply and the small pin connectors on the other boards. I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks
I'll have to do a video showing that Richard... the deal with that rectifier board is there are a lot of different voltages right there next to each other, if any of them touch each other or if the board is singed to the point that the carbon connects to of the voltages it will burn something up for sure. Thank you for watching Richard!
That solenoid driver board appears to be from an Elektra. The ‘EEL 3634’ sticker (E=electronic, EL=Elektra) and manufacture date ‘4281’ (42nd week of 1981) seem to match up. Elektra was released in December, 1981.
@@GreenAppelPie That is not uncommon at all. A batch of games was obviously built in a few months preceding the release date. The same thing happens with cars. I have a 2009 year model Ford that was built in August 2008.
JOES CLASSIC, When the grounds are all separate ( Not Star grounded) it will cause the game to have Resetting issues, Locked Solenoids, what other problems? I'm not sure why have isolated grounds would cause this issue because its just a very small ground potential difference which I'm not sure why it would cause the coils to lock on or cause the game to have resetting issues.
That's a good question Wayne, if the CPU stops running the program can freeze wherever it's at, or can stop controlling things like the solenoids, which may fail 'on' instead of failing 'off'.... Or let's say the ground is different on the cpu than it is on the chip that controls a solenoid... like you said though it's likely a small difference. However, if one of the grounds is lost completely, the whole thing can crash or stop running. If it stops running and one of the coils locks on, the coil burns up the driver transistor and the coil, so it causes some damage. If we tie the grounds together they now have multiple paths so you can't really lose the ground, since it has three different ways it gets on the board (or whatever it is). So that's all we're trying to do. Thank you for watching Wayne!!!
@@LyonsArcade Thanks I didn't know when the cpu stops running the game program it can cause the coils to lock ON. I thought when the cpu stops running the coils turns off. The programmer forgot to write a safety code in case this happens.
@@waynegram8907 -- I don't think code would necessarily help. I mean, the MPU board is more than just a CPU. You nave a PIA/VIA for instance, perhaps bus latches, etc. So there are more things on the bus than just the CPU to hold the bus. So I don't think it is a matter of deliberately "coding" it to be on or being able to code it off. So if the CPU locks up or stops, the rest of the bus might not even notice. So in that sense, it won't be any different than an EM system. If the cam in an EM system is locked, then the solenoids would also be locked.
@@PlumGurly The RESET circuit in pinballs games should be monitoring the data buss activity and IF the data buss is LOCKED no activity then the reset circuit should turn off the power to the coils to prevent them from damaging the coils and driver transistors. Same thing for the EM systems when the Store motor is Locked the coils will be locked on which will damage them, the reset circuit should monitor when the store motor is locked on to turn off the power to the coils to prevent damaging.
Reason for multiple grounds on audio is to cut down on electric feedback loops. On pinball does not matter. Maybe each board one just to isolate probs...but that's it. They yell at pecon vs pecan too lol.
And in hi-fi applications, one would have multiple/independent power rails for everything. Even in a ganged amplifier chip, it may have multiple Vcc connections so it can be powered by different rails or even different power supplies. That way, the sound will be crisper since you don't have multiple amps competing for the same voltage and adding ripple and sag to it. That's a common way to upgrade something to be closer to hi-fi. You'd increase the incoming voltage/current some and then use multiple regulators, resistor chains, decouplers, etc. And something to keep in mind in all of this is how 6.5" of wire/trace adds about 1ns of latency.
"...and then they give me hell about how I say Gottlieb!" "Well, it is a German name...." Oh, Matt, nooooooo! 🤣 😇 Just kiddin' guys.Great video as always. Keep 'em coming!
Nice series on this machine 👍 Silly question What is the voltage of an American wall outlet? But Say you got a travel adaptor and plugged the machine into an Australian power outlet which is 240 volts AC Would it Kentucky fry the machine? Or would you have to upgrade the power fuse and transformer before you plugged it into an Australian power outlet if you purchased an American pinball machine and shipped it to Australia? To prevent a scary loud bang when ya turn it on in Australia...
If you plugged it in it would probably burn some stuff up, yeah... but it could be fixed. There is a wire or two you need to move on the transformer to get it to take 240, but it's not hard to do. You move a wire or two and now it works exactly the same on the Australian power... .American power is 120v, back in the day it was slightly lower, so between 110 and 120.
Valuable information to any country that uses a higher voltage Thankyou Now I know if I do buy an amazing American pinball machine That I won't set it on fire 🔥 Great stuff your channel is very educational I really like the way you show people how to fix things:)
Standard American wall current is around 120 volts. We do use 240 volts for some things, but mostly only heavy motors and heavy heating appliances. Appliances like water heaters, air conditioners, etc., come in different voltages. And a 3rd voltage you may encounter in the US is 208 volts. That is for when there are mixed light industrial and residential use. In that case, you'd encounter 3-phase AC with 3 transformers (which may or may not be integrated). You'd have the 120 volts, but the next voltage up would be 208 rather than 240 volts. That is common enough to where there are 208-volt ratings on the power plates and even water heaters made specifically for 208 volts. Voltages other than those 3 (such as 480v or higher) would be for heavy industrial use.
Why not directly connect these transistors to the processor? This Board has 19 Transistors. If u connect theese direct, u need at least a processor with 32 bit databus. and u can nothing other do with this 19 pins.
I'm not an expert at this, but there's no processor actually on that board, so they'd have to connect it directly to the databus and address bus on the mpu board, and I don't know if they can do enough addressing to make that work... if they have extra decoders and things involved they can turn them on and off without using up the entire bus, and also have chips that buffer the high voltage that's in the transistors in case one of them shorts (and they do all the time). So for instance if one of the transistors shorts now, it burns up a chip and the rest of everything still works, if they were connected directly to the bus it would burn up the MPU (which is more expensive) and nothing would work. That's just my guess though....
@@LyonsArcadeHere is the Prozessor on the MPU Board, but with this ''old scool'' Processors, with external ROM, it's not possible to connect anything direct to adress or Databus. U have to use adressable ranges for ROM,RAM, and external stuff.
No, "divining rods" have *never* been demonstrated to work significantly better than chance when tested under carefully controlled conditions. Not once. Over a period of 50 years, the James Randi Educational Foundation's "One Million Dollar Paranormal Challenge" offered $1 million USD to anyone who could demonstrate any kind of paranormal ability under carefully controlled conditions in a preliminary test and a full test. Over that 50 year period, numerous tests involving divining rods repeatedly failed to demonstrate any ability to find whatever substance they were trying to detect at a rate significantly greater than chance. None ever even did well enough in a preliminary test to graduate to a full test. The fact that they _sometimes_ find water is utterly meaningless, since you can always find water by random chance in places where water exists, regardless of your method of generating that randomness. It only matters if your method works significantly greater than chance, otherwise you might as well just be rolling dice or throwing darts at a dartboard blindfolded, since that would work equally well. Disagree? There are numerous other paranormal challenges out there today which offer rewards if you could prove divining rods work at a rate significantly greater than chance. Win one of those, and then I'll believe you.
Well, I am sure it can work under certain conditions. If you are actually tapping into spirits and they are not offended by any attempt to document them, then you should be able to capture that if someone has competent spirits around them. That's the problem here, the scientific elements of testability and falsifiability. The problem with most of these "scientific" tests is that they aren't really science either. With science, you can't come into it with a bias. So if you come into it as a debunker, you will never really get a result other than what is convenient to your belief system. This reminds me of other types of pseudoscience. An example is "assisted communication." That is a way to "help" people with a severe intellectual disability (say maybe an IQ of 40 or lower) to "communicate." That has never been proven to work. What you'd have to do is "blind" the facilitator who is guiding their hands so that they will be unable to impose wishful thinking into the outcome. Then, what they invariably end up with is gibberish. The above is why judges sometimes need to do Frye hearings. That is to test a witness or "scientific" method for reliability. If you can't prove it in a courtroom, it is no good. For instance, let's say someone reports having extremely sensitive hearing and that they positively identified a speaker when it would be impossible for most folks to hear. So in that case, the prosecutor or attorney should write down some questions, show them to the judge and the other attorney, and then whisper the questions from the other side of the courtroom with their back turned to the witness. If they can hear and answer those questions under those conditions, then the possibility that they are a credible witness is pretty high.
@@PlumGurly - First, there's *zero* good reason to believe that spirits are real, so you're just attempting to use one untestable claim to attempt to remove falsifiability from another unreal claim. Sorry, but adding one bad argument to another just produces an even flimsier argument. Also, you say, "if you come into it as a debunker, you will never really get a result other than what is convenient to your belief system." This is BS. The whole point of testing something scientifically is to attempt to falsify it, i.e. debunk it. That's why the very falsifiability you mentioned earlier is so important to performing scientific tests. You attempt to prove the "null hypothesis", by trying to disprove the thing you're supposing might be true. Worse, your claim is just untrue. Plenty of people have tried to "debunk" claims, only to end up finding evidence that _reinforces_ those claims. For example, Einstein tried to debunk quantum mechanics, but when his tests didn't falsify it as he'd expected, and instead demonstrated that the "quantum weirdness" he so disliked in his "God doesn't play dice with the Universe" quote was actually a real phenomenon. In other words, Einstein's attempts to debunk quantum mechanics actually helped prove it. So, even if you're trying to debunk something, if you go about it in an actual scientific manner, you'll still find the truth, whatever it may be. Like it or not. In other words, properly done science produces results which match reality, regardless of your personal biases. Regardless, the simple fact is is that people who claim dowsing works cannot even demonstrate their own claims to be real when proper scientific controls are put into place. The more stringent the controls, the more their results resemble random chance. And if you can't actually do what you claim when tested, what reason would anyone have to believe your claims?
@@HiEv001 This is very hostile and I'm muting you. What I said is true. You are to come into things as a scientist, not as a debunker. And yes, I can give you many stories about those trying to debunk claims coming to other conclusions. However, that negates nothing I said. There is a difference between goals and motivations. Coming in as a debunker is not the same as honestly examining something, and if you debunk it, you do, because the evidence speaks for itself. A good example is the Catholic Church bringing in professionals before doing an exorcism ritual. They would always use atheists since it would be easy for a Christian doctor to want someone to be possessed to justify their beliefs. When they found nothing medically or psychologically wrong and insisted on staying for the actual ritual, some actually converted to Christianity as a result of what they witnessed and experienced. I wish you the best. Take care.
@@PlumGurly - _"There is very hostile and I'm muting you."_ I say you're wrong and demonstrate it with examples, and you see that as "hostile"?!? LOL. That just sounds like you hate being proven wrong, and thus are going to bury your head in the sand... but not before trying to get in the last word. How very, very brave of you. 🙄 Also, I'll remind you that I didn't come here to attack you. I posted here first, and you came here to attack what _I_ said. I merely defended myself. So which of us is the "hostile" one here? Anyways, what you said was only _partially_ true, the other parts were false, as I demonstrated. Using the scientific method means coming up with a hypothesis, and then attempting to debunk that hypothesis. You can add all sorts of completely specious attributes to debunkers you want, all you're doing is a lame attempt to redefine a word into something it is not. The fact that there are debunkers who are bad at using the scientific method doesn't change the fact that the heart of the scientific method is demonstrating how likely some claim is true by attempting to debunk it. Worse, you try to bolster your bad argument with an apocryphal tale of atheists converting to Christianity after seeing exorcism rituals, which, even if it were true, *and it's not,* is not evidence of anything, it's merely an anecdote. People change their minds for reasons that are neither sound nor logical all the time. Some random and completely unnamed person changing their mind does *NOT* mean that they did so for good reasons. Generally speaking, most (if not all) of the atheists I know are utterly appalled at the mistreatment and torture of mentally ill people with BS "exorcisms". It's something out of the Dark Ages, not something that should happen in modern, enlightened society. Even when such rituals appear to "work", there are plenty of other completely natural explanations for what happened, so they in no way prove anything supernatural. I'm sorry, but you're just repeating your pattern of trying to back up untestable claims with other even more BS claims, and you just keep ending up with an argument so flimsy and paper thin that it completely deflates at the tiniest pinprick of questioning it. You have a head full of nonsense, and that nonsense only leads you to believe more nonsense. If you had any _actual_ respect for the scientific method, you'd realize that fact and jettison all of those spurious claims until they had sound, scientific backing. Sadly, you're just going to hide inside your bubble instead, because hearing you might be wrong is somehow "hostile" to you. Pathetic. 😞
the Amazing Randi, a now deceased stage magician, debunked divining decades ago. there's still a 1 million $ rewards if you can demonstrate any supernatural power at the James Randi Educational Foundation
You can never totally "debunk" something, especially when it's so nebulous, you can just demonstrate that people either can't do what they claim or, worse, that they can't even articulate their claim in a way where it's testable. And an untestable/unfalsifiable claim is just a claim which does nothing detectable. Also, the JREF "One Million Dollar Paranormal Challenge" ended in 2015, however there are dozens of similar challenges out there, with prizes up to $250,000 USD.
@@HiEv001 the burden of proof lies with the ones making a positive claim whether it's finding water with hand held rods, or healing the sick , or predicting the future
@@Columbiastargazer I totally agree about the burden of proof, and that's very important to remember. However, that's important precisely because it's nearly impossible to prove a negative, i.e. debunk something.
On divining rods, I believe this stuff can work. You may be getting some "assistance" from the "other side." I do similar with a practice called Full Court of Atonement (Amy Jo is promoting that), and there seem to be results with that. And FCOA is best done with dowsing using a pendulum or your body, much like a "poor man's Ouija board." So you ask questions and your body or the pendulum will pull to give you the answer. And of course, you sometimes need to ask 3 times and maybe ask the strongest the last time and bind the words of the spirit in question. Something like, "I ask you in the name of God and everything holy..." Scripture says something about that. "Test the spirits..." or something. So when you do such a method, you have to devise ways to know you are speaking to and that they are a spirit who has the authority to answer you. Otherwise, you might end up with a troll on the other side. This is sorta in the danger area, though maybe not quite as dangerous as an Ouija board the way many use those. I mean, if everyone opens the Ouija board together and each brings in their own familiar spirits or whatever, what do you do if things go "viral" on the spirit plane and the spirits throw a huge party that gets out of hand? And what if not all the guests are willing to leave when they are done? So then you run into other spiritual issues and problems such as entity attachments. Entity attachments can be a result of messing with things you are not supposed to, doing things that violate the free will of another, being in extremely unhealthy emotional states (such as extreme anger, lust, or depression/suicidality), being in a weakened physical state, or drugged (including anesthesiology for surgery). Being in bad places could make it easier to pick up negative entities, particularly if you are drugged/drunk or in a state of depression, violence, extreme tiredness, etc. So if you are already susceptible, then being in places such as bars, brothels, bad neighborhoods, graveyards, or areas where violence occurred would be a bad idea. Now, if you have to go to certain areas such as where violence occurred or you need to go to the hospital for surgery, then I'd say pray, clear your conscience, put up psychic shielding, fast, or whatever you'd do to prepare would be good. If one has the ability, maybe even clear the place and release the bad energy so that bad spirits won't hang out there. There are other spiritual "mechanics" problems that have other causes, such as soul loss (usually from trauma or doing really bad things, eg., if you commit a violent crime, you may feel so guilty and bad that parts of you leave because they can't stand to stay around the bad energy), or cording (often between you and someone you have a strong emotional bond with or who cares). Cording is not always a bad thing, but it is an energy draw and can allow someone to have a bit too much influence over you. So a mother might form a cord with a child, and that can help in terms of knowing what they are feeling, keeping an eye on them, etc., but it could be a hindrance when they get older and cause unnecessary conflict.
A lot of people don't believe in any of that because they think Science doesn't allow it... but I know, that I don't know. It's strange to me when people just dismiss something like you're talking about, and won't even consider that it could be possible, I think there are a lot of things in the world that we don't understand and things like Divining, Cording, FCOA (which I've never heard of), even Ouija boards, I'm not going to say none of that is true because honestly I don't know. We don't know much about the spiritual side of things, we're all trying to figure it out and some of that could very well be reality and something other people have figured out... and it may require someone to have a belief in it for it to be more effective or true too. I believe in bad energy too, and I think science backs a lot of this stuff up. The idea of "Neural Storms" for instance is basically that if you get in a bad mood and say bad things your mind gets used to bad things and bad ideas, it's easier to think something if you've already thought it a lot. So if you say "I'm stupid" enough, eventually you believe you're stupid and it holds you back, it's literally negative energy hurting you. So the idea of negative energy coming from somewhere else and hurting you, basically has science behind it. People are so quick to refute spirtual beliefs and ideas like you're talking about but there's probably a lot to most of it. If you live in a neighborhood with lots of crime and none of the street lights work.... your mind is going to work more negatively than if you live in a bright neighborhood with kids laughing and no crime. This is fact, I mean it's not even arguable... some people may have figured out that those are negative entities and maybe they are. I don't know! There's something to it, though.
@@LyonsArcade -- Thanks for weighing in. It's about like my beliefs about "aliens." I've never met any, seen any, etc., and I believe the universe is large enough that other things can exist. An argument I've used in the past is that you have to use the right "instrument" to be able to know about this stuff. There are things we once had "superstitious" beliefs about, and the vestiges of that remain in the terminology. Such as "malaria." "Mal" means "bad," and folks believe the air itself was bad because they didn't know better. But we later found that mosquitoes were carrying pathogens. Pathogens themselves were discovered by folks trying to disprove evolution and spontaneous generation. Eg., "You want to get rid of all those dirty rags since they will turn into rats!" On some of this stuff, science is only partially there. I mean, some of what you mention involves the subconscious mind. That has been shown, and that is why a lot of public restrooms (at least at schools and workplaces) are the way they are even the Men's Restroom. I mean things such as deodorant, pink walls, lights in good repair, regular cleanings, and stuff. That is to help reduce problems such as fistfights. Foul odors, certain pheromones, clutter, and flickering lights can negatively impact the mood. Soft colors and lighting as well as a good mix of floral scents tend to help lift the mood. I find EVP (electronic voice phenomenon) to be interesting. That's when you carry a recorder into a place such as a graveyard, abandoned building, etc., and pick up things that you didn't hear when you recorded it. Sure, some may assume this is just RFI/EMI, and yes, that can happen. However, this isn't that. The recorded voices seem to fit the context of what was happening during the recording. Plus the voices returned are not things the FCC would particularly want on TV or radio. When the voice says, "Get the [deleted] out!" I don't think that would normally come across the airwaves. So EVP is assumed to be "ghost voices." One of the more interesting ones is when a voice captured in a graveyard said, "Ugh! Plastic eyes!" The investigators decided to speak to a mortician about their hunch and asked if they used plastic "eyes" or whatever, and he said they did. Natural eyes shrink and they want the bodies to look as expected, so they have plastic spacers that they put behind the eyelids to hold a "natural-looking" shape. Plus there were voices such as an investigator losing a camera, and they didn't know it at the time, but a spirit was telling them where to look, or a spirit at a place where smoking was once banned telling one of the investigators not to smoke. I've used energy healers in the past. Once learning about FCOA (which is like a prayer), I've had little need for remote energy healers. And the energy healers had found interesting things around me in the past. One was like, "There is something I'm detecting around you and I don't want to offend, but I'm picking up the energy of cocaine addiction." I've never had that problem, but I wasn't offended because neighbors can bring in that energy, and if she could detect such a thing, surely she could clear it and help reduce or prevent future trouble. I used some holdbacks when working with such healers, so if they work on things that you didn't mention, then that is an indication that they are real/sincere in what they do. And some physical pain was on that list. I sought that help for emotional issues but would get things like, "I'm detecting an entity attached to your left arm that I will clear..." and then an annoying pain would disappear. Oh, exorcisms used to be interesting. A priest once told how the Catholic Church used to get mental and physical checkups for those who were suspected to need an exorcism. They would only use atheists since they wanted unbiased professionals. However, often, they'd only use them once. After being a part of such a ritual, they'd have faith. If you were to see impossible things such as heads rotating 360 degrees and poltergeist activity, you might conclude that evil is real, and if you conclude that evil is real, then believing that good also exists would be reasonable.
40:41 'the bridge doesn't do anything other than just change the polarity' Eh? What are you smoking dude? A bridge changes AC to DC and when doing that the output voltage is generally about 1.3X more than the input voltage. Please do some research before saying complete garbage like that LOL!
in terms of electronics repair work, 'sodder' isn't a word in the common english dictionary. look up the word 'sodder' and it means something completely different (rather bad and derogatory.... f...ker). in the english dictionary 'solder' has an L and it's not silent. Please try to improve your english skills so that noobs don't start soddering stuff without actually knowing the true meaning of that word.
From the dictionary....
Sodder: An incorrect term for 'soldering', usually used by idiots, or people with 'labtop' computers.
Soldering is the process of joining metals with by using heat to melt a filler metal often made from tin and copper. Soldering is often used for making electrical connections in electronics, as well as being used in other metalwork.
Incorrect use: "I need some more sodder for my soddering iron"
How’s the Queen?
@@LyonsArcade No idea, nor do I even care. I'm in Australia :-)
My point is the word you are using isn't in the dictionary. It wouldn't be the first time someone in the US made up a word to win a pi55ing contest, but I'm king of that realm so there's no point even trying to ;-)
This is one of the most entertaining episodes I've seen on this channel and I'm a regular watcher for like a year or two. You two had some fun and it's contagious.
Matt's a funny guy, it's easy to push his buttons. He was one of our first customers, he's been coming around for like 13 years now!
Ron - Great overview on how to test, rebuild, and update/upgrade the solenoid driver board. I am just starting a full restoration on a Bally $6M Dollar Man and this video provided great insight into what to check, update, and upgrade on the board. A big THANK You for putting together these videos.
Speaking as an Electrical Engineer (Hi Matt!), I can offer a little insight on the grounding thing…
The biggest issue here is that every bit of current that flows from the power supply (I.e., the main transformer) has to return to the power supply. The only way it can return is over a ground path. The ground isn’t a “reference voltage”, it’s an active current return path. For some reason, a big chunk of the industry - designers and engineers who should have known better - ignored this rule. Lots of boards had just one, or if you were lucky, two, ground pins. As chip counts went up, current flow went up, and the voltage drop across a pin and a skinny wire really started to cause problems.
Ron, tying together ground wires just helps. You know what you could do to make things even better? Add MORE ground wires. There’s some out there that are reeling in horror at me saying that, but it’s just good engineering! Scratch off some solder mask from a central area, attach a wire, and run it back to the ground point on the transformer. I’d bet you’d never have an issue with that machine in the future.
Exactly how does the back panel get its ground, Ron said the pcb board is screwed into the back panel and that is how it gets its ground, maybe it is the other video, but even so is there a wire that is connected to the silver panel that goes to the transformer? thank you
its the metal plate that I am talking about. How does the metal plate get its ground? thank you
Jas, you would have to have Ron check, but usually that back plate is connected to the ground at the transformer. Effectively, the whole back of the box is a ground plane. In current designs, the electrical engineers use multi-layer printed circuit boards with an entire inner layer being a sheet of copper connected to ground. It does the same thing.
As another Electrical Engineer...@David Williams is exactly right. What you really want is a more reliable and better ground back to the source. By tying your grounds together you are, sort of, doing that by, in this board's case, having three ground wires plus the back plate.
However, by not isolating them on the board, you don't offer any protection between the various power rails (or noise isolation). Let's say one of your solenoid's diode fails, its back EMF is coming back and will be able to tickle the 5VDC stuff too. Conversely, if it had to flow back to the transformer and the ground reference for the system, it would flow there, not back up to the 5VDC or some other power source that won't want to see it.
So, if your mod was to add dedicated, decent sized, ground wires soldered to their respective points for good connection and run them down to the ground, you'd get the better ground and keep the supplies from sharing their noise. You can use a (better) connector, in-line to allow for serviceability.
When measuring the input voltage off the transformer, please know that its voltage will be based on its rated load. If you don't have that transformer loaded, it is going to read high.
I will leave a negative comment right now! -5 volts! -12 volts! Always love these videos!
Thank you Bambi! I've been a big fan since I was about 5!
@@LyonsArcadelol
German here 🇩🇪 ♥️
Finding water with rods or willow sticks really works but only if a person has the mojo.
Ron, you are just fine with your grounds, “sodder” and divining rods! Actual work experience in the real world will teach us things some haven’t learned. Keeping an open mind and trying to learn how or why crazy things work from someone with experience is the way. Thanks for sharing your experience with us.
Hy Ron,sorry for bad english.When you have 10A/12V transformer ,12V is at 10A load.Under 12V is overloaded and higher 12v is underloaded ( without light and other consumption,logics,solenoids etc)you now that,but no all knows.
33:10 lowering the cap value will cause the voltage to sink faster under load. So the excess voltage is likely not caused by it being 11000 instead of 11700. And, replacing it with 15000 is highly unlikely to cause any issues. A higher value of capacitor just holds the voltage high longer, but doesn't inherently increase it in any way that is practically relevant. The maximum voltage the cap will be charged to is the peak voltage of the source, minus rectifier losses which you can estimate to be between 1,2 and 2V in normal operating conditions.
I think if the transformer outputs nominally 12V AC, having 15ish V out of the rectifier and cap is well in the tolerance.
With little load, the rectifier output can creep up to 40ish % over the nominal voltage. That is a property of AC and rectification.
Thank you Jussi, that makes sense!
Peak voltage...unloaded , ideal rectifiers...1.414 ( square root of two) times the rms voltage.( assuming sinusoidal ac).
So 12V rms ac would be 16.98 Volts
Less 4 diode forward voltage . Say 0.6 V thus 2.4V would suggest 14.58 V.
Point is every thing has a tolerance...especially the incoming line voltage
@@LyonsArcade For a filter cap, a high value only becomes a problem when the inrush at power on damages the rectifier diodes. As long as you don't go too big, bigger is better ;)
I used a bent piece of metal wire to find broken irrigation lines while working for the city. I had no idea i was doing wizard magic.. I was shown what to do and it worked. That summer i dug up and replaced tons of broken PVC... later on I found out i was doing wizard stuff but it just worked for me IDK.
Also there was a man at my church that was a well driller that hired an old man to dowse for wells for him. He had a very successful business and again i had no idea he was using a wizard to help him hahaha. Also I'm an engineer if that add anything to my argument :)
Just starting on restoring a Bally 1977 Eight Ball thank you for this video! Your the best! Thanks
Thank you Gary, good luck with your Eight Ball! We have other videos on your channel of Eight Ball, such a great game.
Matt knows his stuff, spot on!
Great ep. Floating ground between areas on the circuit board. Not ideal design but can eliminate cross talk between IC's which probably explains this kludge.
Thanks again, great video Ron!!
Thanks for watching Patrick!
Enjoy it when Matt is hanging out with you
Was it me or did the board look holographic during the talk about divining rods? Whenever the camera moved, the board looked like one of the old holographic pictures.
Great video as always
the DC rectified voltage should be about 1.4x higher (minus diode drops in the bridge) of the AC voltage coming out of the transformer. i.e. a 10V winding will give you 14V - 1.2V of diodes or so for a final total of 12.8V. If the transformer's outputting higher voltages, maybe it's set up for 115V mode instead of 120V mode. the manual shows wiring for both.
My dad used to witch water as a kid. They would use elm or cotton wood sticks, some type of wood that was normally a "wet" wood and they were pretty good at finding water weather in a pipeline or spring. I never tried it but I know those who have done it successfully.
You and Matt crack me up
We try to keep it fun
From my virtual pinball building experience, which is limited, tying all the grounds together sets a common “reference voltage” so there are no floating grounds. Just like you were saying. 🤷♂️
That's the way to do it :) Thanks for watching as always man!
Audio and high-speed digital circuits are different. As for general power supplies and this application, I am with you in tying the grounds together. That helps the current draw across the contacts and equalizes the current draw and allows and would be a better failsafe. It would reduce issues like arcing and resistance on the contacts. So with multiple paths, an occasional loose connection would wear out slower.
As for capacitors, if you mean the first capacitors, the size doesn't really matter. Generally, the larger there, the better for overall filtering, IMHO, but it might be good to have smaller ones in parallel for faster reaction times for smaller ripples. That is done on digital circuits where you have an electrolytic capacitor out of the voltage regulator, but then ceramic capacitors on that same trace to every Vcc connection and Ground of each chip. So you have a global filtering capacitor and smaller local decoupling capacitors.
On transformers, unless there are shorted windings or overheating issues, I wouldn't expect them to drift up. But, you might run on a higher voltage than what it was built around. Like things were made more for 110, but you are getting 120-126. And also, you might have higher power than normal in an area such as on certain days of the week. For instance, some folk living near mills would end up with blown CRTs in TVs because they'd get 150 volts on the weekends. The mills would be pulling the most power during the week and everything is calibrated to the mills being fully operational. So when they are running at minimal levels, the power will surge for a couple of days.
That's pretty wild about the mills, I'll have to remember that. Very interesting.... Only thing I've heard about making the filter capacitor TOO big, is that it may strain the regulator but i'm not sure how. So I try to just go up a little bit not a ton, and it seems it helps with things like bulbs flickering, etc. a little bit if you have a 15k in there instead of 11k. When you hit the flippers the lights dim, but not as much with the bigger capacitor (it seems)...
@@LyonsArcade -- Yes, power engineers have to account for all sorts of things, and if something that's assumed to be a constant value changes unexpectedly, you can run into problems.
One thing that folks sometimes forget about when dealing with large caps is safe handling. There are times when you'd need to unplug a unit and short out the large capacitors to be able to safely touch a circuit. This is necessary to know working with CRTs too. The coating on a CRT forms a capacitor, so one would need to jumper between the 2nd anode lead and the ground, and due to the resistance in the coating, I'd leave the jumper wire in place until one is finished servicing things. A way to visualize what is happening there is to have many capacitors nearly in parallel with all the grounds (or hot leads) tied together, and the other leads connected together through resistors. So you'd discharge an area only to slowly recharge it from the discharge of another area. So one would do best to keep the leads shorted instead of just drawing an arc. But one must not forget to remove the jumper.
As for how too large can strain things, that might be more during startup. The larger the capacitor, the longer a circuit would act like it has a dead short. So you have a sudden current spike and voltage drop when the capacitor is initially charging. You can see this effect on an analog multimeter. The needle will peg and then drift down.
Great video, very specific and informative.
Is it worth just buying an Alltek replacement board?
I would sure love to see an uncut version of this channel, holy sh*t would that be awesome 😁
You wouldn’t believe it
I told you if you sold stickers I'd buy one. So I bought one. Next is a shirt since you have them in big man size!
Thank you Dan you know you're alright!
Great stuff. I just got a Lost World and was in process of repairing the solenoid board so your video was well timed.
still lovin it. stay cool and keep on.
Thank you mycatsdead, we appreciate you watching man!
I'm sure it'll be booting in no time. 27:50 couple options on digi-key for potentiometers like what you're looking for. Passives->Potentiometers->Thumbwheel Potentiometers have some with big wheels. Perhaps a nicer option, look at Passives->Potentiometers->Trimmer Potentiometers then in the parametric search box for "Adjustment Type" choose "Top Finger Adjustment". Something like 3386F-1-103TLF looks like it'd work well, that particular one is 10k but of course other values are available in the series.
Great video. Sodder *IS* funny to us sole-derers.
Put a lot of quarters in those over the years.
5V regulator has its own tolerance between nominal input and output voltage. If input voltage is higher it is possible that out is little higher also. That's why there is a pull up resistor, in some service manuals is additional note said that pull up resistor should be replaced if voltage is too high or too low.
It's pretty common to have separate ground wires for analog and digital circuits, to keep big currents on the analog side from messing up the ground levels on the digital side. That's the theory anyway.
it is a good practice also
I think it works the other way too. The digital noise could bias the analog signal. Not sure.
In this case, for reliability reasons, I'd join them to increase reliability and increase the current paths. So if it comes in at 2-3 pins instead of one, you'd have less likelihood of burning the connectors. I mean, if 80% of the current is getting through one, having 2 would drop that resistance load to 10% or less instead of 20%. And with 3, that would be like 7%. Okay, I'm not explaining that right, but having more paths would make it more reliable and reduce resistance/heat on the connections. And even a weak connection would contribute some to the path and reduce the load on the other pins.
That's our main idea for joining them, we're just trying to keep 1 bad connector from crashing the board... when a pinball board hangs up, sometimes it makes coils lock on too and if the coil stays on more than two or three seconds it fries the coil and the transistor driving it.... so we're trying to make sure that if there's resistance somewhere or a ground differential the board doesn't hang up because it literally is catastrophic.
@@LyonsArcade -- I totally get that. And sometimes, with the original designs, it isn't just 1 bad connector, but 2-3. I mean things like looping the power/ground off the board and then back on, increasing the points of failure. So yeah, I'd mod that on the board (and perhaps in the wiring harness with another wire or jumper on that side too), thus using the connectors in parallel rather than series and in ways that maintain compatibility.
When I clean circuit boards before I repair them I use ambersil foam cleaner and then rinse them under a tap and then you can use an air dryer or an heat gun to dry it off
Thank you Simon.. .the other day I cleaned a Centipede board and just ran it under the water and let it dry off, it was so filthy I had to do something or it never would have worked. Thanks for watching (as always)
Witching water works I done it successfully many times last time was looking for my septic line and hit it first time.
When you say resolder the pins, do you just melt the existing solder and add a little more or do you suck the old stuff out and put in completely new stuff?
I just add a small amount more to remix it basically
IDK why so many people love to give you so much crap Ron that has to be draining. But either way I'm learning so much from your videos regardless of what the know it all trolls say
They just hate me because i'm so cool, thanks for watching Austin, you're pretty cool too
Your guy is right - Fixed voltage regulators are tied to ground. Just bolt it down no R50 needed.
Sodder can travel, witching water works, and George is for REAL.
Ahhhh! A believer!
You should take a board and clean it in the dishwasher (seal off relays if present), then put it in an oven at 170° til dry. Then use it in one of your repairs!
For info LM323 is a fixed 5V regulator also. 20V Maximum input voltage, 3 amp short circuit current.
Ron, I have had a few of these Bally SDB's where the voltage was a little too high and replacing the 5V regulator fixed the problem. I've never had to cut R49 or jumper R50.
Ron, why waste time? Get some mini-divining rods and let them point to the problems on the boards! C'mon now people! 😆
New Joe's Classic Video Games video? Already given it a thumbs up, now it's time to watch it!
Your videos are great. Starting to get my Silverball Mania machine working reliably. It no longer will boot. TP1 on the rectifier board is delivering only 3.2v DC. I understand that this is enough to get the led to light but not get the MPU to boot? Is it reasonable to believe BR1 is the problem? All other voltages are fine other than TP2 which is 185. I understand that this is high enough. TIA
Test Point 1 on the rectifier board (which is the one by the transformer).... is 5.4 volts, that actually runs the lamps and doesn't have anything to do with the board booting. Test Point 2 is 230volts, 185 is fine because it's what's used to make the voltage for the displays. (also not really needed to boot).... test point 3 is 12volts DC which is then sent to the solenoid driver board, where it is made into 5 volts.
The MPU board needs 12 volts to light up the LED, but it won't flash... it needs the 5 volts that the solenoid driver board creates to make the board boot (and blink the LED)....
Test your voltages on the mpu at the test points, you should have a 12, and a 5... for the board to completely boot you also need the solenoid voltage (43) but it will blink several times without this voltage.
@@LyonsArcade Thanks so much. After I didn't find proper voltages on the other, I went back to the rectifier board and find that all of my voltages are now nowhere close to what they should be. I also confirmed that no fuses blew. Do you recommend replacing the entire board or just the bridge rectifiers? It looks as if replacing the rectifiers would actually be less soldering.
I hope you guys are well!
We are Masato, good to see you buddy!
Divining rods = Even a blind squirrel will find a nut, once in a while. But you be you.😉
Scientists used to swear up and down the earth was flat... now they swear up and down dowsing doesn't work :)
@@LyonsArcade actually science disproved the flat Earth concept. But if I’m paying $40,000.00 to drill a well based on dowsing, give me good old science every time, and I live in Michigan. It occurs to me that Michigan should be able a dowsers paradise.🤔
One thing. When thinking about the regulator. These are not magic. 40 v in 5 v out means 35 v to loose. So 35 watts for every amp used at 5 v( by the CPU etc)
Just take care if pushing those linear regs.
Say detoxic it , in a bill Murray attitude .. it drives em wild!
Bill Murray attitude lol I never heard that but I can hear it in my head lol
To be honest, divining rods have not been scientifically proven. If you hold a rod, the slightest movement of the hand makes the rod move. There is no scientific evidence :). Solder Migration, particularly silver migration within solder joints is scientifically proven :). I love these little bits of banter you throw in though. Lots of fun :).
Regarding the transformer, the issue is not the transformer, the MAINS voltage is hotter now. It use to be around 115V, but these days it is between 120 and 125V in most states. This makes the output of a transformer higher as the input to output is a fixed ratio. I think Matt just said that as I typed this lol. I didn't wait till the end ::)
Well of course they can't scientifically prove dowsing, they don't have the Shine! You have to have the shine to do it :)
I can't figure out though if the regulators should throw that voltage right to 5 volts no matter if the voltage is higher or not on the input, you'd think that it would still come out 5 volts even if the input was higher than it really was designed to be.
Others have said they replaced the regulator and it lowered it back down but I'm pretty sure I've done that many times, i'll have to purposefully do it in a video and see for sure.
@@LyonsArcade if they didn't have the additional resistors, then it should lock at 5v but the additional resistors act as a sort of voltage divider, I think, looking at it, and do allow a little variation. Once you remove that nasty one that ups to to 5.4v it should lock at the 5.1 or 5.2 regardless though as you eliminate that part. Adjusting the resistor to ground would tweak the voltage, in theory. That said, 5.1 or even 5.2 is fine for the TTL logic on these older boards.
@@LyonsArcade You don't need shine to make it work you just need to live on a planet where the surface is more than 70% water. That percentage will obviously vary depending where you are and what the weather has been like in the past few days so you could say dowsing is about as accurate as the percentage of water around you. If you're in a swamp or an ocean then its about 100% accurate but if you're in a desert it will be much less depending mostly on the weather... As for the shine, I can only get mine from the liquor store down the road... but your success may vary depending on how much shine you've had. ;P
@@LyonsArcade Oh, and to add to what others have said... Even thought the 5v regulator is a fixed voltage regulator they can still be tuned to slightly higher voltages like variable regulators by adding resistors to the ground pin like in the schematic. The reason one might do this is for circuit stability and not just losses in the wiring on the PCB. Switching noise generated on power lines on the PCB when the circuit is operating can cause momentary voltage dropouts and a slightly higher voltage can counter that. Bypass capacitors next to each chip can take care of some of the noise but fast switching and bad caps can cause momentary power droops that can cause random logic issues or even a CPU that doesn't boot or crashes randomly. So 4.8 to 5.3 volts is normal supply voltage on a 5v logic PSU. That 5.4v is pushing a little harder and still within the 6 or 7 volt absolute maximum of most 7400 series chips but the circuit board of course might need it slightly higher than 5v for stability.
Just to point out it the big guys are a bulk capacitors. It allows for big power draws without needing a huge transformer. You could probably get away with anything 10,000 - 30,000.
Thank you kingofl337!
Metals can do weird things. I think there is a phenomenon called "bearding." That is when certain metals "grow" protrusions over time. It might be related to electrical and mechanical stresses, but even scientists don't really know why. That can be a problem when you "grow" solder bridges and get shorts.
The Tip driver transistors are called darlington transistors.
Thank you David!
Floating the regulator's ground reference up a bit is a good away to tweak up the output a bit- will work for all those 3 terminal regulators, though I would expect the regulation might suffer a little. Have to be really careful with xformer outputs when working on tube systems- no regulators in those systems so a few volts more because of a 120v source instead of 115v and you can start to burn stuff up.
Yes. Watching other channels such as Mr. Carlson's Lab, you see folks who repair/restore tube radios often modify how power comes in. A common mod is changing the original cord to have a polarized plug. That way, if you come in contact with the chassis, you only touch the ground/neutral and not hot. Plus a lot of those chassis-grounded units had the switch tied to the chassis. So they were often more dangerous to handle when they were turned off.
Another way to burn stuff up in tube systems is to have bad capacitors. So the best thing to do if one acquired a tube set that hasn't been restored is to not turn it on until all the paper-wax capacitors and the electrolytic capacitors have been replaced. The mica capacitors might need to be replaced too, but they are not in the power-critical sections, usually just the tuning-critical sections. If you change those unnecessarily, you may find that alignment will take longer to do and might not reach the desired outcome. So changing frequency-critical capacitors might, in some cases, make it impossible to make the stations match the numbers on the dial. And then again, you might have no other choice since they really are bad.
The resistor in the ground leg thing used to be a standard way to tweak the output voltage. The theory is (when new) the regulator ensures there is 5V between the output & its ground pin. This means there is a regulated 5V across that 100R, so a defined current through that of 5/100 = 50mA. This also runs through the 2.2R, lifting the ground pin to 2.2*0.05 = 0.11V. Note that as the 100R is on the *output* side of the regulator the input voltage does not affect it.
I suspect the actual issue is aging of the regulator - it is having to dissipate a lot of power being a linear regulator, so it will run quite hot - and hot causes aging!
As pinball fanatic says replacing that regulator is probably a better idea than chopping the resistor off, as if the regulator is going out of spec it probably should not be trusted any more.
Another way to lower the voltage is to place diodes in series, whether to the ground of the regulator to raise the voltage (since less is returning to the regulator) or in series with the output to lower things a tiny amount.
And yes, I agree with you. I'd consider replacing the regulator first. If things are still too out of specs, that is when you play with the resistors.
@@PlumGurly I am also wondering if a lot of the increase is down to increased leakage through the regulator to ground - that would cause more current through the 2.2R hence raising the voltage even further
Yep, I believe lifting the ground even shows up in the app notes section of TI's 780X datasheet. Concur on the reg probably dying too, on the fairly rare occasion when I find something vintage and hard-dead, if it's not a blown diode it's a blown linear reg.
I did a little research and there were actually 3, at least 3, Playboy pinball machines
1977
2002
and a newer one, not sure of the year
at 7.03 mark i think he means Stern "Stars" which would use the same board
Witching works. I worked at a golf course and there was a guy who used 2 copper rods and he could find irrigation pipes every time.
The people who designed these boards are electrical engineers and they definitely know what they’re doing because they have to have at least four years of college if not more
I agree! I'm just trying to figure out what they were doing :)
Over 20 Watts of heat from 5V LDO ;) Easy to install a buck converter.
Using a larger capacitor is like using a two-gallon bucket when you only need it to hold one gallon of water. It'll work fine.
P.S. I could "witch" water by rolling dice, but not reliably.
Generally a larger filter cap is better, but increasing it unnecessarily may in some cases require you to put in a sturdier rectifier and fuse. It can also cause the circuit to come up to voltage too slow. Also after turning the device off, the large cap may not bleed at a sufficient rate. This can manifest as anything between something cosmetic like afterglow from displays, and a non-bootable system if one component takes longer than expected to boot or produces erroneous states when receiving borderline sufficient voltage for an extended time.
@@jussikuusela7345 I was thinking of using a lager size, within reason… I wouldn't suggest replacing an 11,000 µF capacitor with say a 5 Farad capacitor, but replacing it with a 15,000 µF capacitor is just fine.
@@fred_derf True. A 50% increase seldom is an issue.
@@jussikuusela7345 -- Well, in the case of taking too long, one may then have to wire in a power supervisor to keep the microcontroller held in reset until the power is high enough and stable. And yes, such complexity can be avoided by staying within reasonable specs.
Yea, star grounds are just made up to give you a hard time.... in this application star grounds probably do not matter to much ---- soolllddddeeerrr all thoose grounds together. like you said how many pinball machines have you fixed!!
We're just trying to help make up for any shoddy ground connections we might have on some of the pins, thanks for watching FET Killer!
You should have a vacuum line and a compressed air line to suck off the dust and them spray compressed air to clean the boards
We did this for cleaning up computers before working on them
It kept the dust in the air to a minimum
We used washable static air filters to clean the air to get the dust floating around
Ah, much like how dental lavage is done, but with air.
I tried to replace the pin connectors on the rectifier board of the power supply. When I turned on the machine it burned the heck out of the board under the connectors. I ordered a new rectifier board. Installed new board and everything is ok. I have never seen the pins replaced before. Please show us how to remove and install the large pins on power supply and the small pin connectors on the other boards. I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks
I'll have to do a video showing that Richard... the deal with that rectifier board is there are a lot of different voltages right there next to each other, if any of them touch each other or if the board is singed to the point that the carbon connects to of the voltages it will burn something up for sure. Thank you for watching Richard!
You might have had some charring around the connectors. If you don't clean that up before repinning it, then you may burn everything again.
That solenoid driver board appears to be from an Elektra. The ‘EEL 3634’ sticker (E=electronic, EL=Elektra) and manufacture date ‘4281’ (42nd week of 1981) seem to match up. Elektra was released in December, 1981.
Could be, good eye!
But the 42nd week of the year is the middle of October
@@GreenAppelPie That is not uncommon at all. A batch of games was obviously built in a few months preceding the release date. The same thing happens with cars. I have a 2009 year model Ford that was built in August 2008.
@@jussikuusela7345 The boards were made in batches, probably weeks before they were installed in a game.
@@kmart0017 that, too. Had to have some games assembled upon release date.
JOES CLASSIC, When the grounds are all separate ( Not Star grounded) it will cause the game to have Resetting issues, Locked Solenoids, what other problems? I'm not sure why have isolated grounds would cause this issue because its just a very small ground potential difference which I'm not sure why it would cause the coils to lock on or cause the game to have resetting issues.
That's a good question Wayne, if the CPU stops running the program can freeze wherever it's at, or can stop controlling things like the solenoids, which may fail 'on' instead of failing 'off'.... Or let's say the ground is different on the cpu than it is on the chip that controls a solenoid... like you said though it's likely a small difference. However, if one of the grounds is lost completely, the whole thing can crash or stop running. If it stops running and one of the coils locks on, the coil burns up the driver transistor and the coil, so it causes some damage. If we tie the grounds together they now have multiple paths so you can't really lose the ground, since it has three different ways it gets on the board (or whatever it is). So that's all we're trying to do. Thank you for watching Wayne!!!
@@LyonsArcade Thanks I didn't know when the cpu stops running the game program it can cause the coils to lock ON. I thought when the cpu stops running the coils turns off. The programmer forgot to write a safety code in case this happens.
@@waynegram8907 -- I don't think code would necessarily help. I mean, the MPU board is more than just a CPU. You nave a PIA/VIA for instance, perhaps bus latches, etc. So there are more things on the bus than just the CPU to hold the bus. So I don't think it is a matter of deliberately "coding" it to be on or being able to code it off. So if the CPU locks up or stops, the rest of the bus might not even notice.
So in that sense, it won't be any different than an EM system. If the cam in an EM system is locked, then the solenoids would also be locked.
@@PlumGurly The RESET circuit in pinballs games should be monitoring the data buss activity and IF the data buss is LOCKED no activity then the reset circuit should turn off the power to the coils to prevent them from damaging the coils and driver transistors. Same thing for the EM systems when the Store motor is Locked the coils will be locked on which will damage them, the reset circuit should monitor when the store motor is locked on to turn off the power to the coils to prevent damaging.
Reason for multiple grounds on audio is to cut down on electric feedback loops. On pinball does not matter. Maybe each board one just to isolate probs...but that's it. They yell at pecon vs pecan too lol.
It does matter everywhere.
And in hi-fi applications, one would have multiple/independent power rails for everything. Even in a ganged amplifier chip, it may have multiple Vcc connections so it can be powered by different rails or even different power supplies. That way, the sound will be crisper since you don't have multiple amps competing for the same voltage and adding ripple and sag to it. That's a common way to upgrade something to be closer to hi-fi. You'd increase the incoming voltage/current some and then use multiple regulators, resistor chains, decouplers, etc. And something to keep in mind in all of this is how 6.5" of wire/trace adds about 1ns of latency.
Its truth my father can do it. Join when Matt is in video, but you must have shine/mojo
"...and then they give me hell about how I say Gottlieb!"
"Well, it is a German name...."
Oh, Matt, nooooooo! 🤣
😇 Just kiddin' guys.Great video as always. Keep 'em coming!
I will show the blind man lol Matt doesnt believe I will show him how it works lol
Matt doesn't have the shine and the sad part is he doesn't know anybody with the shine, tsk tsk tsk
@@LyonsArcade IKR I enjoy your videos
Nice series on this machine 👍
Silly question
What is the voltage of an American wall outlet?
But
Say you got a travel adaptor and plugged the machine into an Australian power outlet which is 240 volts AC
Would it Kentucky fry the machine?
Or would you have to upgrade the power fuse and transformer before you plugged it into an Australian power outlet if you purchased an American pinball machine and shipped it to Australia?
To prevent a scary loud bang when ya turn it on in Australia...
If you plugged it in it would probably burn some stuff up, yeah... but it could be fixed.
There is a wire or two you need to move on the transformer to get it to take 240, but it's not hard to do. You move a wire or two and now it works exactly the same on the Australian power... .American power is 120v, back in the day it was slightly lower, so between 110 and 120.
Valuable information to any country that uses a higher voltage
Thankyou
Now I know if I do buy an amazing American pinball machine
That I won't set it on fire 🔥
Great stuff your channel is very educational I really like the way you show people how to fix things:)
Standard American wall current is around 120 volts. We do use 240 volts for some things, but mostly only heavy motors and heavy heating appliances. Appliances like water heaters, air conditioners, etc., come in different voltages.
And a 3rd voltage you may encounter in the US is 208 volts. That is for when there are mixed light industrial and residential use. In that case, you'd encounter 3-phase AC with 3 transformers (which may or may not be integrated). You'd have the 120 volts, but the next voltage up would be 208 rather than 240 volts. That is common enough to where there are 208-volt ratings on the power plates and even water heaters made specifically for 208 volts.
Voltages other than those 3 (such as 480v or higher) would be for heavy industrial use.
Which water? Witch water!
*laughing at end of video he said dont want a negative comment * LoL i would turn it into joke
i been working on big truck knowing 24vdc
yes divining is a real thing. Is cleaning the boards with IPA ok?
Yes it is, although I've seen it stain the board. So you might want to try it on part of it first, It sometimes kind of bleaches them.
Why not directly connect these transistors to the processor?
This Board has 19 Transistors. If u connect theese direct, u need at least a processor with 32 bit databus. and u can nothing other do with this 19 pins.
I'm not an expert at this, but there's no processor actually on that board, so they'd have to connect it directly to the databus and address bus on the mpu board, and I don't know if they can do enough addressing to make that work... if they have extra decoders and things involved they can turn them on and off without using up the entire bus, and also have chips that buffer the high voltage that's in the transistors in case one of them shorts (and they do all the time).
So for instance if one of the transistors shorts now, it burns up a chip and the rest of everything still works, if they were connected directly to the bus it would burn up the MPU (which is more expensive) and nothing would work.
That's just my guess though....
@@LyonsArcadeHere is the Prozessor on the MPU Board, but with this ''old scool'' Processors, with external ROM, it's not possible to connect anything direct to adress or Databus. U have to use adressable ranges for ROM,RAM, and external stuff.
hey don't give matt a hard time
No vids on the weekend leaves one with 2 empty days....lol
No, "divining rods" have *never* been demonstrated to work significantly better than chance when tested under carefully controlled conditions. Not once.
Over a period of 50 years, the James Randi Educational Foundation's "One Million Dollar Paranormal Challenge" offered $1 million USD to anyone who could demonstrate any kind of paranormal ability under carefully controlled conditions in a preliminary test and a full test. Over that 50 year period, numerous tests involving divining rods repeatedly failed to demonstrate any ability to find whatever substance they were trying to detect at a rate significantly greater than chance. None ever even did well enough in a preliminary test to graduate to a full test.
The fact that they _sometimes_ find water is utterly meaningless, since you can always find water by random chance in places where water exists, regardless of your method of generating that randomness.
It only matters if your method works significantly greater than chance, otherwise you might as well just be rolling dice or throwing darts at a dartboard blindfolded, since that would work equally well.
Disagree? There are numerous other paranormal challenges out there today which offer rewards if you could prove divining rods work at a rate significantly greater than chance. Win one of those, and then I'll believe you.
Well, I am sure it can work under certain conditions. If you are actually tapping into spirits and they are not offended by any attempt to document them, then you should be able to capture that if someone has competent spirits around them. That's the problem here, the scientific elements of testability and falsifiability.
The problem with most of these "scientific" tests is that they aren't really science either. With science, you can't come into it with a bias. So if you come into it as a debunker, you will never really get a result other than what is convenient to your belief system.
This reminds me of other types of pseudoscience. An example is "assisted communication." That is a way to "help" people with a severe intellectual disability (say maybe an IQ of 40 or lower) to "communicate." That has never been proven to work. What you'd have to do is "blind" the facilitator who is guiding their hands so that they will be unable to impose wishful thinking into the outcome. Then, what they invariably end up with is gibberish.
The above is why judges sometimes need to do Frye hearings. That is to test a witness or "scientific" method for reliability. If you can't prove it in a courtroom, it is no good. For instance, let's say someone reports having extremely sensitive hearing and that they positively identified a speaker when it would be impossible for most folks to hear. So in that case, the prosecutor or attorney should write down some questions, show them to the judge and the other attorney, and then whisper the questions from the other side of the courtroom with their back turned to the witness. If they can hear and answer those questions under those conditions, then the possibility that they are a credible witness is pretty high.
@@PlumGurly - First, there's *zero* good reason to believe that spirits are real, so you're just attempting to use one untestable claim to attempt to remove falsifiability from another unreal claim. Sorry, but adding one bad argument to another just produces an even flimsier argument.
Also, you say, "if you come into it as a debunker, you will never really get a result other than what is convenient to your belief system." This is BS. The whole point of testing something scientifically is to attempt to falsify it, i.e. debunk it. That's why the very falsifiability you mentioned earlier is so important to performing scientific tests. You attempt to prove the "null hypothesis", by trying to disprove the thing you're supposing might be true.
Worse, your claim is just untrue. Plenty of people have tried to "debunk" claims, only to end up finding evidence that _reinforces_ those claims. For example, Einstein tried to debunk quantum mechanics, but when his tests didn't falsify it as he'd expected, and instead demonstrated that the "quantum weirdness" he so disliked in his "God doesn't play dice with the Universe" quote was actually a real phenomenon. In other words, Einstein's attempts to debunk quantum mechanics actually helped prove it.
So, even if you're trying to debunk something, if you go about it in an actual scientific manner, you'll still find the truth, whatever it may be. Like it or not.
In other words, properly done science produces results which match reality, regardless of your personal biases.
Regardless, the simple fact is is that people who claim dowsing works cannot even demonstrate their own claims to be real when proper scientific controls are put into place. The more stringent the controls, the more their results resemble random chance. And if you can't actually do what you claim when tested, what reason would anyone have to believe your claims?
@@HiEv001 This is very hostile and I'm muting you.
What I said is true. You are to come into things as a scientist, not as a debunker.
And yes, I can give you many stories about those trying to debunk claims coming to other conclusions. However, that negates nothing I said. There is a difference between goals and motivations. Coming in as a debunker is not the same as honestly examining something, and if you debunk it, you do, because the evidence speaks for itself.
A good example is the Catholic Church bringing in professionals before doing an exorcism ritual. They would always use atheists since it would be easy for a Christian doctor to want someone to be possessed to justify their beliefs. When they found nothing medically or psychologically wrong and insisted on staying for the actual ritual, some actually converted to Christianity as a result of what they witnessed and experienced.
I wish you the best. Take care.
@@PlumGurly - _"There is very hostile and I'm muting you."_
I say you're wrong and demonstrate it with examples, and you see that as "hostile"?!? LOL.
That just sounds like you hate being proven wrong, and thus are going to bury your head in the sand... but not before trying to get in the last word.
How very, very brave of you. 🙄
Also, I'll remind you that I didn't come here to attack you. I posted here first, and you came here to attack what _I_ said. I merely defended myself. So which of us is the "hostile" one here?
Anyways, what you said was only _partially_ true, the other parts were false, as I demonstrated.
Using the scientific method means coming up with a hypothesis, and then attempting to debunk that hypothesis.
You can add all sorts of completely specious attributes to debunkers you want, all you're doing is a lame attempt to redefine a word into something it is not. The fact that there are debunkers who are bad at using the scientific method doesn't change the fact that the heart of the scientific method is demonstrating how likely some claim is true by attempting to debunk it.
Worse, you try to bolster your bad argument with an apocryphal tale of atheists converting to Christianity after seeing exorcism rituals, which, even if it were true, *and it's not,* is not evidence of anything, it's merely an anecdote. People change their minds for reasons that are neither sound nor logical all the time. Some random and completely unnamed person changing their mind does *NOT* mean that they did so for good reasons.
Generally speaking, most (if not all) of the atheists I know are utterly appalled at the mistreatment and torture of mentally ill people with BS "exorcisms". It's something out of the Dark Ages, not something that should happen in modern, enlightened society.
Even when such rituals appear to "work", there are plenty of other completely natural explanations for what happened, so they in no way prove anything supernatural.
I'm sorry, but you're just repeating your pattern of trying to back up untestable claims with other even more BS claims, and you just keep ending up with an argument so flimsy and paper thin that it completely deflates at the tiniest pinprick of questioning it.
You have a head full of nonsense, and that nonsense only leads you to believe more nonsense. If you had any _actual_ respect for the scientific method, you'd realize that fact and jettison all of those spurious claims until they had sound, scientific backing.
Sadly, you're just going to hide inside your bubble instead, because hearing you might be wrong is somehow "hostile" to you.
Pathetic. 😞
Not dividing rod
Divining.,
So you just hired an unemployed electronics engineer...
No he doesn't work for me he just comes and hangs out
my father did it with a branch off a apple tree
I'd take out the alkaline batteries and replace them with heavy duty...
Yodelayheehoo
Yodelayheehoo Lil Everette!
the Amazing Randi, a now deceased stage magician, debunked divining decades ago. there's still a 1 million $ rewards if you can demonstrate any supernatural power at the James Randi Educational Foundation
You can never totally "debunk" something, especially when it's so nebulous, you can just demonstrate that people either can't do what they claim or, worse, that they can't even articulate their claim in a way where it's testable. And an untestable/unfalsifiable claim is just a claim which does nothing detectable.
Also, the JREF "One Million Dollar Paranormal Challenge" ended in 2015, however there are dozens of similar challenges out there, with prizes up to $250,000 USD.
@@HiEv001 the burden of proof lies with the ones making a positive claim whether it's finding water with hand held rods, or healing the sick , or predicting the future
@@Columbiastargazer I totally agree about the burden of proof, and that's very important to remember. However, that's important precisely because it's nearly impossible to prove a negative, i.e. debunk something.
On divining rods, I believe this stuff can work. You may be getting some "assistance" from the "other side." I do similar with a practice called Full Court of Atonement (Amy Jo is promoting that), and there seem to be results with that. And FCOA is best done with dowsing using a pendulum or your body, much like a "poor man's Ouija board." So you ask questions and your body or the pendulum will pull to give you the answer. And of course, you sometimes need to ask 3 times and maybe ask the strongest the last time and bind the words of the spirit in question. Something like, "I ask you in the name of God and everything holy..." Scripture says something about that. "Test the spirits..." or something. So when you do such a method, you have to devise ways to know you are speaking to and that they are a spirit who has the authority to answer you. Otherwise, you might end up with a troll on the other side.
This is sorta in the danger area, though maybe not quite as dangerous as an Ouija board the way many use those. I mean, if everyone opens the Ouija board together and each brings in their own familiar spirits or whatever, what do you do if things go "viral" on the spirit plane and the spirits throw a huge party that gets out of hand? And what if not all the guests are willing to leave when they are done? So then you run into other spiritual issues and problems such as entity attachments. Entity attachments can be a result of messing with things you are not supposed to, doing things that violate the free will of another, being in extremely unhealthy emotional states (such as extreme anger, lust, or depression/suicidality), being in a weakened physical state, or drugged (including anesthesiology for surgery). Being in bad places could make it easier to pick up negative entities, particularly if you are drugged/drunk or in a state of depression, violence, extreme tiredness, etc. So if you are already susceptible, then being in places such as bars, brothels, bad neighborhoods, graveyards, or areas where violence occurred would be a bad idea. Now, if you have to go to certain areas such as where violence occurred or you need to go to the hospital for surgery, then I'd say pray, clear your conscience, put up psychic shielding, fast, or whatever you'd do to prepare would be good. If one has the ability, maybe even clear the place and release the bad energy so that bad spirits won't hang out there.
There are other spiritual "mechanics" problems that have other causes, such as soul loss (usually from trauma or doing really bad things, eg., if you commit a violent crime, you may feel so guilty and bad that parts of you leave because they can't stand to stay around the bad energy), or cording (often between you and someone you have a strong emotional bond with or who cares). Cording is not always a bad thing, but it is an energy draw and can allow someone to have a bit too much influence over you. So a mother might form a cord with a child, and that can help in terms of knowing what they are feeling, keeping an eye on them, etc., but it could be a hindrance when they get older and cause unnecessary conflict.
A lot of people don't believe in any of that because they think Science doesn't allow it... but I know, that I don't know. It's strange to me when people just dismiss something like you're talking about, and won't even consider that it could be possible, I think there are a lot of things in the world that we don't understand and things like Divining, Cording, FCOA (which I've never heard of), even Ouija boards, I'm not going to say none of that is true because honestly I don't know. We don't know much about the spiritual side of things, we're all trying to figure it out and some of that could very well be reality and something other people have figured out... and it may require someone to have a belief in it for it to be more effective or true too. I believe in bad energy too, and I think science backs a lot of this stuff up. The idea of "Neural Storms" for instance is basically that if you get in a bad mood and say bad things your mind gets used to bad things and bad ideas, it's easier to think something if you've already thought it a lot. So if you say "I'm stupid" enough, eventually you believe you're stupid and it holds you back, it's literally negative energy hurting you.
So the idea of negative energy coming from somewhere else and hurting you, basically has science behind it. People are so quick to refute spirtual beliefs and ideas like you're talking about but there's probably a lot to most of it. If you live in a neighborhood with lots of crime and none of the street lights work.... your mind is going to work more negatively than if you live in a bright neighborhood with kids laughing and no crime. This is fact, I mean it's not even arguable... some people may have figured out that those are negative entities and maybe they are. I don't know! There's something to it, though.
@@LyonsArcade -- Thanks for weighing in. It's about like my beliefs about "aliens." I've never met any, seen any, etc., and I believe the universe is large enough that other things can exist.
An argument I've used in the past is that you have to use the right "instrument" to be able to know about this stuff. There are things we once had "superstitious" beliefs about, and the vestiges of that remain in the terminology. Such as "malaria." "Mal" means "bad," and folks believe the air itself was bad because they didn't know better. But we later found that mosquitoes were carrying pathogens. Pathogens themselves were discovered by folks trying to disprove evolution and spontaneous generation. Eg., "You want to get rid of all those dirty rags since they will turn into rats!"
On some of this stuff, science is only partially there. I mean, some of what you mention involves the subconscious mind. That has been shown, and that is why a lot of public restrooms (at least at schools and workplaces) are the way they are even the Men's Restroom. I mean things such as deodorant, pink walls, lights in good repair, regular cleanings, and stuff. That is to help reduce problems such as fistfights. Foul odors, certain pheromones, clutter, and flickering lights can negatively impact the mood. Soft colors and lighting as well as a good mix of floral scents tend to help lift the mood.
I find EVP (electronic voice phenomenon) to be interesting. That's when you carry a recorder into a place such as a graveyard, abandoned building, etc., and pick up things that you didn't hear when you recorded it. Sure, some may assume this is just RFI/EMI, and yes, that can happen. However, this isn't that. The recorded voices seem to fit the context of what was happening during the recording. Plus the voices returned are not things the FCC would particularly want on TV or radio. When the voice says, "Get the [deleted] out!" I don't think that would normally come across the airwaves. So EVP is assumed to be "ghost voices." One of the more interesting ones is when a voice captured in a graveyard said, "Ugh! Plastic eyes!" The investigators decided to speak to a mortician about their hunch and asked if they used plastic "eyes" or whatever, and he said they did. Natural eyes shrink and they want the bodies to look as expected, so they have plastic spacers that they put behind the eyelids to hold a "natural-looking" shape. Plus there were voices such as an investigator losing a camera, and they didn't know it at the time, but a spirit was telling them where to look, or a spirit at a place where smoking was once banned telling one of the investigators not to smoke.
I've used energy healers in the past. Once learning about FCOA (which is like a prayer), I've had little need for remote energy healers. And the energy healers had found interesting things around me in the past. One was like, "There is something I'm detecting around you and I don't want to offend, but I'm picking up the energy of cocaine addiction." I've never had that problem, but I wasn't offended because neighbors can bring in that energy, and if she could detect such a thing, surely she could clear it and help reduce or prevent future trouble. I used some holdbacks when working with such healers, so if they work on things that you didn't mention, then that is an indication that they are real/sincere in what they do. And some physical pain was on that list. I sought that help for emotional issues but would get things like, "I'm detecting an entity attached to your left arm that I will clear..." and then an annoying pain would disappear.
Oh, exorcisms used to be interesting. A priest once told how the Catholic Church used to get mental and physical checkups for those who were suspected to need an exorcism. They would only use atheists since they wanted unbiased professionals. However, often, they'd only use them once. After being a part of such a ritual, they'd have faith. If you were to see impossible things such as heads rotating 360 degrees and poltergeist activity, you might conclude that evil is real, and if you conclude that evil is real, then believing that good also exists would be reasonable.
40:41 'the bridge doesn't do anything other than just change the polarity'
Eh? What are you smoking dude? A bridge changes AC to DC and when doing that the output voltage is generally about 1.3X more than the input voltage. Please do some research before saying complete garbage like that LOL!
I've said this before, you ever change the way you speak it'll be a crying shame.
Nce video again thanks .