The Suprising Truth About Beauty Standards in the Middle Ages

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  • Опубліковано 3 лис 2024

КОМЕНТАРІ • 504

  • @riverAmazonNZ
    @riverAmazonNZ Рік тому +463

    “Middle aged men are the hottest” - middle aged male writer in medieval times 😂

    • @653j521
      @653j521 11 місяців тому +12

      Was it their money or social standing that made them the hottest?

    • @user-sg4ov7ng4h
      @user-sg4ov7ng4h 11 місяців тому +5

      ​@@653j521im thinking maybe it was made by men or its related to physical activites, maybe the become stronger or its the climax of themselves, like athletes. (A lot of times we think 30s but ive seen 40 yo dancers)

    • @annakalicka3430
      @annakalicka3430 10 місяців тому +16

      @@653j521 I'm guessing their patronage to the poets describing the standards of beauty for both female and male was a main reason for pushing middle aged men as "hottest" - they could afford to pay for their views to be presented as "objective truths" - if objective truth was of any value anyway.😁

    • @graphiquejack
      @graphiquejack 6 місяців тому +4

      I think it’s that men needed to be more established and able to provide for a family, and most younger men, especially if they weren’t firstborn, probably weren’t able to do that. As for physical appearance, we don’t have a lot of historical women writing about what they found sexy in men. But apparently Lancelot was a stud… lol

    • @hw2803
      @hw2803 4 місяці тому +1

      I mean they used a man in his 40s (Momoa) as an example for male attractiveness themselve.

  • @moxiebombshell
    @moxiebombshell Рік тому +178

    6:54 Reminds me of reading about how difficult it is to reconstruct women's clothing for some periods! Somewhat in the reverse of today, it was the *men's* clothes written about in great detail - the cut and style of his garments, adjective-filled descriptions of their color and fabric, etc. - then just, "the bride wore a gown of woo!."

    • @kimberlyperrotis8962
      @kimberlyperrotis8962 Рік тому +14

      Men were the first to wear pink, too, it was extremely popular for them🙂

    • @voornaam3191
      @voornaam3191 11 днів тому

      Poor sheep. Shivering with cold, all they had was woo!.

  • @Petra_the_explorer
    @Petra_the_explorer 7 місяців тому +58

    I love their dynamic!! This really represents a genuine conversation between two friends about a subject they are passionate about. More of both Dr Lister and Dr Janega please! Also the topic is really interesting

  • @db_37205
    @db_37205 Рік тому +116

    The recipe for soap is simply a mixture of potassium hydroxide and oil/fat. The potassium hydroxide comes from mixing the ashes of a fire ("pot ash" = potassium) dissolved in water. By itself, the straight lye dissolves skin, fat and protein. Mixing it with a fat or oil and water in the correct proportion decreases the lye's ability to eat the skin from your body to a substance that allows dirt, oils (body odor), and other filth to be dissolved in water and washed away.

    • @paultuerena
      @paultuerena Рік тому +7

      It’s not quite that simple, there is a process that occurs called saponification

    • @db_37205
      @db_37205 Рік тому +29

      @@paultuerena I just described saponification, the mixture of lye with an oil leading to combined properties of both oil and water where the surface tension of water is lessened while the "soap" allows the mixing of both oils and water so that water can literally wash both the dirt and oils away.

    • @paultuerena
      @paultuerena Рік тому +9

      @@db_37205 apologies very early in the morning and I possibly misread! Never comment before coffee!

    • @db_37205
      @db_37205 Рік тому +16

      @@paultuerena I don't even have a heartbeat before my morning coffee ☺

    • @BobUikder-ig4uq
      @BobUikder-ig4uq 3 місяці тому

      @@paultuerenathe fact that your blatantly wrong comment that looks like you wrote it without even reading the words got 6 likes is insane

  • @Emthe30something
    @Emthe30something Рік тому +45

    I click in quickly quite often to history hit. But when I saw this drop I had to drop everything. I appreciate the frank approachable discussion. the compare contrast to how much has changed and how much has stayed the same. More more more please.

  • @rosemarymcbride3419
    @rosemarymcbride3419 Рік тому +444

    love this discussion!
    I'm very far from the core of beauty standards now and in the medieval period, but I have a feeling I'd've been seen as dead sexy in the paleolithic

    • @ericafors6039
      @ericafors6039 Рік тому +6

      😂😂😂❤

    • @monikel
      @monikel Рік тому +4

      😅😅😅

    • @sharonkaczorowski8690
      @sharonkaczorowski8690 Рік тому +5

      Awesome! I love it.

    • @cristianproust
      @cristianproust Рік тому +3

      Thinking that it is a social construct with the amount of science we have is pure madness.

    • @ingloriousbetch4302
      @ingloriousbetch4302 10 місяців тому +4

      I'm just looking for the time period where super short, not scrawny but not quite chubby, small eyes and short waist come into the ultimate fashion

  • @alyssoid
    @alyssoid 9 місяців тому +14

    I love seeing these two together! Going through the list of medieval beauty standards cracked me up, especially the dumptruck a**

  • @moderatedoomer2945
    @moderatedoomer2945 Рік тому +101

    I love seeing someone with the same flat, slightly nasal, Western US accent just kicking ass as a Medievalist in the heart of the City of London. Go on, Queen!

    • @bethanp3453
      @bethanp3453 Рік тому +5

      Yes! An opportunity for unbiased honesty.

    • @rfvtgbzhn
      @rfvtgbzhn 6 місяців тому +4

      Actually I read that US accent is closer to older English accents than modern UK accent.

    • @rebeccawayman4219
      @rebeccawayman4219 3 місяці тому

      She is the queen. I love both these ladies.

  • @paulmaher5846
    @paulmaher5846 Рік тому +251

    I worked as a volunteer on archaeological digs years ago, and the palaeontologist was able to fairly accurately date remains to before or after the 1500s (when sugar became widely available from the americas) by looking at the teeth of a skull.
    Basically, after refined sugar was introduced, dental hygiene goes to hell

    • @warellis
      @warellis Рік тому +28

      Prior to the introduction of sugar, teeth generally wore down due to millstone pieces in grain and bread

    • @onelazysusan
      @onelazysusan 11 місяців тому +11

      I imagine that using one’s teeth as tools put some wear on them, as well

    • @user-sg4ov7ng4h
      @user-sg4ov7ng4h 11 місяців тому +1

      Depends i guess. The more you bite as a kif the more theyll be straight so it might bz in the same boat

    • @rogueredshirt5239
      @rogueredshirt5239 9 місяців тому

      Paleontologist? That's for dinosaurs. They aren't on archeological digs.

    • @Alejojojo6
      @Alejojojo6 9 місяців тому +2

      Sugar existed before the Americas... sugar was produce in europe through beet...

  • @kimichan5
    @kimichan5 Рік тому +158

    “Feet.”
    “I have feet!”
    😂

    • @4gma59
      @4gma59 4 місяці тому +1

      🤣

  • @aplaceinthestars3207
    @aplaceinthestars3207 Рік тому +31

    It was so cute how excited Dr. Lister got in hitting each checkbox for medieval hotness.

  • @stephanieneshqiperistephan1317
    @stephanieneshqiperistephan1317 Рік тому +39

    Mucilage is the softening agent in the barley water, Irish root is a stabilizer and anchors scent

  • @thequintanashow5058
    @thequintanashow5058 Рік тому +388

    Lack of visible ulceration was hot 👍🏽

    • @SofaKingShit
      @SofaKingShit Рік тому +29

      And whoever among them owned the most serfs blighted with the least amount of pustules who lived upon the vastest tracts of land was the hottest of all methinks. Yea verily.

    • @kimberlypatton205
      @kimberlypatton205 Рік тому

      As was pulling your visible hairline halfway back on your head from your forehead, and slathering your face with lead and arsenic.In place of perfume, just dont ever take a bath after the age of infancy.

    • @Bluewomanredstate
      @Bluewomanredstate Рік тому +3

      😂😂😂

    • @thequintanashow5058
      @thequintanashow5058 Рік тому +10

      @@SofaKingShit right, the classic, “well, he’s serf hot, soooo….”

    • @fimbulsummer
      @fimbulsummer Рік тому +13

      Still is, baby!

  • @wesleymons
    @wesleymons Рік тому +28

    I could listen to these two all day long

  • @annemariemattheyse808
    @annemariemattheyse808 Рік тому +63

    “I’m medieval hot!” is just such a great quote! 😂

  • @Dave1507
    @Dave1507 Рік тому +61

    "Dumptruck ass" Yeah, that sounds medieval... 😁 Love these two together!

    • @marieclaudebedard6728
      @marieclaudebedard6728 Рік тому +7

      Me too! But why o why all the beeps! I hate those! If people can't handle simple describing non hateful words, they can just watch something else! It's so puritanical! So: sex, ass, shit, boobs and fucking penis! There!

  • @BobGeogeo
    @BobGeogeo Рік тому +119

    The "millihelen" was the unit of female beauty in the Guinness book from my teens. It meant beauty sufficient to launch one ship. The origin was Helen of Troy's beauty being enough to launch 1,000 ships.
    Edit: I think the Guinness editors may have been throwing a joke into the book.

    • @h0rriphic
      @h0rriphic Рік тому +12

      naw a millihelen is totally a legit unit of measurement

    • @Patriot1789
      @Patriot1789 Рік тому +3

      That is “hysterical.” A roaming uterus for men?

    • @EllenACook
      @EllenACook Рік тому +7

      How would one measure a milihelen, I wonder? Take pictures of the lady in question to a series of navy ships, and begin canvassing the crews to find out how many would be willing to launch their ship for her? But then one would have to factor in that modern ships are much larger than those in the Bronze Age, and scale the ships accordingly.

  • @jilldesruisseau
    @jilldesruisseau Рік тому +26

    I would love to buy them a pint in a pub and just listen to the stories.

  • @nitt3rz
    @nitt3rz 9 місяців тому +14

    This is a brilliant authentic discussion! Hearing a serious historian say, "Dump-truck ass" is so funny.

  • @benburkin7942
    @benburkin7942 Рік тому +127

    My two favourite presenters! Another great video, the beeped swearing made me chuckle ... the conversation felt more authentic for it. Always fun to see what insights you two can give us into medieval life and the absurdities of commonly held cultural beliefs.

    • @kisa229
      @kisa229 Рік тому +6

      Except they forgot one fuck somewhere in the second half 😂

    • @LostintheTangle
      @LostintheTangle Рік тому +7

      ​@@kisa229 That was the fuck they were allowed to give! 😉😁

  • @eisirt55
    @eisirt55 Рік тому +29

    Great discussion. Two very bright women . Full of wit and humour .

  • @peterjones7673
    @peterjones7673 Рік тому +36

    Once again Dr Eleanor delivers a great insight of what ideals were like, Thanks Dr Eleanor

  • @mikaelthomas1138
    @mikaelthomas1138 9 місяців тому +9

    8:23 "I have feet!" I love just listening to these women banter, and I'm glad I live in a time when I'm allowed to respect them. God the past sucked.

  • @LeandroCapstick
    @LeandroCapstick Рік тому +47

    These two Historians are always fantastic together.

  • @kimberlyperrotis8962
    @kimberlyperrotis8962 Рік тому +49

    Organic distilled rosewater is an ancient cosmetic product that I love. It smooths, moisturizes and softens skin without adding any grease or oil, and it smells wonderful. I can’t stand greasy hands, especially working with silk fabrics as I often do. Or those horrible candy, fruity, muffin smells they put in everything nowadays, give me florals instead.

    • @alinashirinian2485
      @alinashirinian2485 Рік тому +5

      I second this! Rosewater is amazing both as a cosmetic product and as a culinary ingredient.

    • @VS-re1sr
      @VS-re1sr 11 місяців тому +6

      I love learning about ancient beauty because the mix of "why don't we do this anymore?" and "this is why we do not do this anymore" is just insane. Caring for hair by brushing out the dead skin cells to clean hair seems to be coming back in the form of the curly girl method. Officially we no longer whiten skin with lead, mercury, or arsenic unless you find a lightening cream that actually works. We no longer drip belladonna in our eyes to achieve the appearance of deadly desire. We only inject neurotoxins (botox) in our faces and take a lot of unregulated pills/powders/potions of unknown content to acheive the perfect body, so clearly we have come a long way.

    • @Thewholetree
      @Thewholetree 9 місяців тому

      Thirded! Rosewater is sooo good for delicate face skin!

  • @Lioness_and_Compass_Rose
    @Lioness_and_Compass_Rose Рік тому +26

    I’ve learned about Hildegard of Bingen but I have never heard she was a skin care girly. Love it!

    • @AmaraJordanMusic
      @AmaraJordanMusic 9 місяців тому

      She’s my confirmation saint, so I adore her, but I didn’t know this! 😅

  • @kieran2221
    @kieran2221 Рік тому +22

    The frankness of this conversation is awesome :)

  • @Wait4me2
    @Wait4me2 Рік тому +25

    So happy to see Eleanor Janega again! I bought and read her book as soon as it was available and enjoyed it very much. Thanks very much for this video, I could listen to Eleanor conversate all day.

  • @iknowright140
    @iknowright140 21 день тому

    I followed both of your separate podcasts and History Hit, could you 2 wonderful ladies please just have your own podcast because every time I’m sad or come home drunk all I wanna do is listen to you 2 talk about anything and have a laugh ❤ greetings from an Australian living in Cambodia

  • @lindsaydrewe8219
    @lindsaydrewe8219 Рік тому +7

    I could listen to these 2 all day❤❤

  • @sqwl222
    @sqwl222 Рік тому +37

    am I the only one distracted by the color grading being different between the shots?

    • @Sgirl
      @Sgirl Рік тому +7

      Was driving me nuts. Who did that? Did no one notice?

    • @jillwanlin9558
      @jillwanlin9558 Рік тому +3

      Yeh, not a good effect.

    • @coffeenoobie
      @coffeenoobie 9 місяців тому +1

      I believe it's caused by lens flare and the camera from the front. The light bouncing on the lens affects the color?

    • @EverybodysWrong
      @EverybodysWrong 7 місяців тому +1

      And the bowl filled with books, moves with every shot😮 center, left, right… and the mirror to her left, then not…weird

    • @Edgar_Medina
      @Edgar_Medina 4 місяці тому

      I thought I was having a stroke

  • @CrisSelene
    @CrisSelene Рік тому +21

    Bought the book. Can’t wait to read it. I'm really interested in the concept of beauty standard as social construct.

  • @mtngrl5859
    @mtngrl5859 Рік тому +48

    One of the great beauties of the medieval age was Eleanor of Aquitaine. Like many other beautiful and/or powerful women she had her share of rumors. But this idea that one had to "young" to be the epitome of beauty, is not correct. While she was indeed young when she married the King of France, by the time she married Henry ll of England, she was 30, he was 18. At that time she was still renowned as one of the most beautiful women in existence. They proceeded to have I believe 8 children together and the last one was born when she was 44.
    Her son King John married the beautiful Isabelle of Angouleme. She was a widow in mid-twenties, and remarried at 30 and proceeded to have 8-10 children with her new husband. Fertility and beauty were more intertwined in that era than the present day.

    • @grannyannie2948
      @grannyannie2948 4 місяці тому +3

      Perhaps good health was also seen as beautiful. Eleanor lived to be quite old. Before having children with Henry she had two daughters to the King of France. She gave them up to marry Henry. Henry also had two illegitimate sons to Rosemund.

    • @mtngrl5859
      @mtngrl5859 4 місяці тому +3

      @@grannyannie2948 I think good health was highly desirable in a royal wife, it would allow one to produce more offspring, an essential element in a royal spouse. In terms of Eleanor, she brought a highly valuable asset being the Duchy of Aquitaine. While she married her first husband, the King of France, when she was 15 and in 14 years of marriage she only had 2 children. Her husband was known to be highly religious & not inclined to be overly sexual, so at the time of their divorce it was uncertain how fertile she would be with another spouse. Louis himself was not able to have a male heir (essential in France due to Salic law of inheritance) until his third marriage.
      Eleanor and Henry ll had a more lusty marriage, so she surprised many with giving birth to 6 children.

    • @grannyannie2948
      @grannyannie2948 4 місяці тому

      @@mtngrl5859 I can't read your full comment. Yes she did. And with Richard and another son who escapes me, used it to essentially commit treason against Henry. He imprisoned her for years.

    • @grannyannie2948
      @grannyannie2948 4 місяці тому

      @@mtngrl5859 Now I can see it. Nice to meet someone interested in Eleanor.

    • @mtngrl5859
      @mtngrl5859 4 місяці тому +1

      @@grannyannie2948 Not sure why you can't read my comment, it appears fully visible. Likely the other son you are referring to was Geoffrey.

  • @WHJeffB
    @WHJeffB 8 місяців тому +2

    Love Dr. Eleanor... Smart, knowledgeable and a fantastic presenter. Would love to sit through one of her college lectures. That she's killing it over in the UK is fantastic. She and the other American (guy) that is curator of the arms collection somewhere over there are a credit to American history scholars.
    Eleanor has that contagious energy about her... I'm sure she's the "belle" of the history nerd balls in academic circles. Bet she's a lot of fun to hang out with, at least if you're talking medieval history!

  • @williambrock3534
    @williambrock3534 11 місяців тому +2

    Love to see you ladies! Making history interesting and hilarious. No better way to start a day

  • @shawnnac760
    @shawnnac760 Рік тому +4

    I love the nature of this video. Relaxed conversation

  • @rileynewman-gatton8549
    @rileynewman-gatton8549 Рік тому +40

    I love watching these two. Huge congrats on the book release!

  • @ralu0filth
    @ralu0filth 9 місяців тому +3

    Eleanor Janega is just awesome!

  • @UnholyKat
    @UnholyKat Рік тому +42

    My two favorite historians together again talking about a subject I love!

    • @moxiebombshell
      @moxiebombshell Рік тому

      My two biggest parasocial crushes in the world, right here.

  • @amandab.recondwith8006
    @amandab.recondwith8006 Рік тому +20

    Depilation wasn't always just to please men. In those days, lice were endemic, so getting rid of hair prevented cooties. And prostitutes definitely had to get rid of pubic hair for hygienic reasons as well as easy cleaning between customers.

  • @000hms
    @000hms Рік тому +13

    Lye, ash, beef tallow. My grandmother made her own soap through the 1970s. That stuff could take all the dirt plus a layer or two of skin.

    • @ellaella2885
      @ellaella2885 5 місяців тому +1

      My grandmother did that too around same years or probably earlier than I was born xx

  • @spoon9908
    @spoon9908 Рік тому +10

    Thanks guys, insightful and thought provoking. Not many more historians I trust and have more confidence in for intelligently analysing and disseminating past primary sources, the likes of which that survive are from a narrow channel of society, that resonates so much to my identity, values and heritage. I've also never felt the urge stronger to jump into the screen, go buy a bottle of sav from the bar and pull up a stool and join in too. My tribe!

  • @azabujuban-hito8085
    @azabujuban-hito8085 Рік тому +7

    And here in Japan we still like going to the sentou ( public bath ) together with our friends and family. It's a nice way to bond. Foreigners usually shocked because wearing any bathing suit is npt allowed in sentou.

  • @tamsin1969
    @tamsin1969 11 місяців тому +9

    I am ecstatic that you've written your book, and loved watching this. In my personal time, I've studied gender inequality and social conditioning, for over 30 years, and you're so right that what is deemed sexy and appropriate for women, is a social construct, created by powerful men. It essentially keeps women in their place and grovelling for acceptance from the "men above them". I refuse to bow to societal pressure that tells me I am somehow wrong, or "less than", if I don't fit the current standard of what is beautiful. We need to get this message across loud and clear. These days it's more about capitalism and consumerism, ensuring women spend a fortune in order to look beautiful. I think there's a lot more men these days that are far more accepting of our less than perfect bodies than we realise. Mature, more spiritually focused men anyway. And who wants a shallow man who only cares if he can see through the gap in your thighs, or if you have big boobs. But this topic needs to be discussed so women will stop hating on themselves, for being who they naturally are. This is a subject that women have been so affected by, they have caused themselves physical harm and even death, in the pursuit of "beauty". Well I say FUK THAT!

  • @ellaella2885
    @ellaella2885 5 місяців тому

    I enjoy the comments learning lots from them as well . Nice ,smart community 🥰 you’re all so good as well

  • @jbear3562
    @jbear3562 Місяць тому

    I can't speak for Aristotle nor Plato, but for me, both Dr Janega and Dr Lister lister are GORGEOUS!

  • @eveningstar1
    @eveningstar1 10 місяців тому +2

    Fascinating conversation!

  • @coffeefrog
    @coffeefrog Рік тому +2

    Amazing discussion! I’ll look for more of your talks together!

  • @CalannEdwards-vu7xg
    @CalannEdwards-vu7xg Місяць тому

    Just ordered your book! Can’t wait to read!

  • @laurenandrews511
    @laurenandrews511 Рік тому +15

    I just want to know what the public bathhouse was like for an average person! A pool? Individual tubs? How often were the tubs being cleaned? Was somebody just going back and forth with a bucket? How were they heating the water?

    • @Neenerella333
      @Neenerella333 Рік тому +3

      Many of the famous bath/bain/springs towns had geothermal springs. They could even divert just a small stream of super hot into cold baths, for the tepid ones.

    • @PLuMUK54
      @PLuMUK54 Рік тому +8

      The Medieval Stews, as they were called, had large half-barrel tubs. They could be small enough for two, or large enough to hold group of 6 or more. There were public rooms with several tubs, and private rooms with one. This was not for modesty, but because Stews were often used as a place to carry out business or to network.
      People usually sat on a low stool, and there would be floating trays to hold food and drink. To protect the user from rough edges, towels were draped over the sides and into the water. To keep the heat in, there were often hung around with curtains or a tent like structure.
      Sometimes the larger Stews had large pools where people could swim.
      The use of chimneys was adopted quickly by the Stews, allowing rooms to be kept warm.
      Water was usually heated by fires. Smaller Stews would have large metal pots, think witches cauldrons, and water would be transferred by bucket. More elaborate Stews would use the same method of heating, but the water would be transferred by pipes. Taps were around at this time, think wine and beer barrels.
      Apparently, the water was changed regularly. If it were not, then it would be difficult to reheat it. If a tub was emptied, they might part fill it with cold water, then place heated metal in it to warm the water. I imagine this only happened with the smaller tubs. They were probably far more hygienic than the Roman style baths which still existed in a few places, and which were cleaned less often.

    • @grannyannie2948
      @grannyannie2948 4 місяці тому

      ​@@PLuMUK54I think you probably got what you paid for.

  • @velvetindigonight
    @velvetindigonight Рік тому +4

    Excellent and entertaining. Thank you

  • @lisabyrne9513
    @lisabyrne9513 11 місяців тому +1

    Love that HH caters to the ladies. Eleanor Janega is fantastic!

  • @poppetangel
    @poppetangel Рік тому +4

    What an interesting discussion. I could listen to much more of this.

  • @matwetton
    @matwetton Рік тому +6

    Keep your simon schamas these 2 are the best historians in the world.

  • @archivistallison
    @archivistallison Рік тому +16

    I loved the book! It was a fascinating read.

  • @arinasosnovskaya5298
    @arinasosnovskaya5298 Рік тому +5

    Why can't I like this video ten times? UA-cam really needs to bring in a superlike. A deci-like, if you wish.

  • @kisa229
    @kisa229 Рік тому +3

    This is so interesting and enjoyable, thank you!

  • @blackbeardsdaughter2613
    @blackbeardsdaughter2613 10 місяців тому

    Love these two ladies! They are soooooooo entertaining and well-spoken. Excellent presentation yet again!! Warm wishes from Northern California :)

  • @katieedwards5926
    @katieedwards5926 Рік тому +4

    I would chew off one of my own arms to go and have coffee and talk with these two women. They’re absolutely incredible.

    • @653j521
      @653j521 11 місяців тому

      Would you still be hot, though? :)

  • @timmaxwell2348
    @timmaxwell2348 6 місяців тому +1

    Love the easy banter back and forth between these two! Well done!
    p.s. Regarding the casual attitude toward public bathing, I've heard that their is an old Japanese saying that "Nudity is often seen, but seldom looked at." Perhaps that also applied to medieval Europe.

    • @grannyannie2948
      @grannyannie2948 4 місяці тому

      People used to swim naked in the sea, but men and women had separate beaches or swam at different times.

  • @mistformsquirrel
    @mistformsquirrel 10 місяців тому +3

    This is fantastic. Also you're both friggin hilarious!

  • @sablewright8053
    @sablewright8053 Рік тому +3

    These ladies are quite charming. Love this ❤

  • @MeganOliveri
    @MeganOliveri Рік тому +9

    This was fantastic 👏🏻

  • @charmerci
    @charmerci Рік тому +7

    I wish they would mention that life was hard and exhausting for most people and that most of the time, people didn't travel much so basically, you're pairing up with the townspeople and there's really not much choice on picking who's best looking. Also, evolutionarily, heavier set women were desirable because food supplies were not reliable year by year, at the most and skinny, thin people didn't last as long in times of famine, so being heavy set was attractive because it meant that you had plenty!

    • @grannyannie2948
      @grannyannie2948 4 місяці тому

      If you were a peasant you could only choose from your village, there was no guarantee you would get permission to marry someone from a neighbouring village

  • @emmahepburn2969
    @emmahepburn2969 Місяць тому +1

    Shut the front door two of my favourite female historians !

  • @bethanp3453
    @bethanp3453 Рік тому +17

    Beauty is for sure a construct. As a teen in the late 90s, if someone told me that in the 2020s there would be fashion models that had visible curves I would have told them they were dreaming. Back then any kind of female A-list celebrity was extremely thin. I don't know what they ate so I'm not going to speculate but suffice to say, they did not look young, fit and healthy. It was a very unrealistic and unsustainable physical standard that really was considered the height of excellence. It makes you think about other bizarre trends throughout the ages. Corsets, white faces, feet binding, collar bone sinking to lengthen necks. A lot are the opposite of healthy and actually are designed to make women look deformed. Less human. Like a woman in her natural state isn't good enough. I don't think on their own men would agree with these odd standards, or women, but it's funny how we all buy into with enough peer pressure. The moral I guess is to get to know people on the inside and what they look like on the outside will become your standard.

    • @cw9007
      @cw9007 Рік тому +5

      Also eyebrows. Eyebrows were not allowed in the late 90 early 00s, now people are basically tattooing on unibrows.

    • @WhatsCookingTime
      @WhatsCookingTime 11 місяців тому

      Other than the very skinnyI miss the look on the women 1990s early 2000

    • @irenejohnston6802
      @irenejohnston6802 7 місяців тому

      Now is its huge trout lips, monstrous backsides, gross breasts. Gel/acrylic long talons, plastic eyelashes. Makeup application all from same mold.

  • @ME-hr8dl
    @ME-hr8dl Рік тому +15

    So interesting… great presenters. More please 🙏

  • @arbel7655
    @arbel7655 5 місяців тому

    I need NEED more of this conversation!!

  • @StarTexaspets
    @StarTexaspets Рік тому +8

    We love Eleanor!!! ✌✌

  • @16voyeur
    @16voyeur Рік тому +4

    Loved this! Thank you!

  • @beverlyellison3911
    @beverlyellison3911 Рік тому +1

    I'm only 5 minutes into the video and I'm pre-ordering your book!

  • @sharonkaczorowski8690
    @sharonkaczorowski8690 Рік тому +5

    Well, after producing two very large babies, I have some of the beauty characteristics, especially the beeped ass. I was originally very thin…I now try to think of myself as a Titian dream girl! I am a social scientist who studied these things as part of a lifelong study of the human need to oppress “Others” and/or define what is or is not acceptable behavior. I hoped that with advanced age some of the pictures in my head would go away. No such luck,beep, beep.

  • @davidjames2910
    @davidjames2910 11 місяців тому +1

    This is making history relevant - and amusing!

  • @joshbrailsford
    @joshbrailsford Рік тому +8

    Great video...except the sound! I had my speaker on max volume and had to really pay attention to catch everything. This seems to be the case with a number of HH videos, which is such a shame.

  • @delphinidin
    @delphinidin 20 днів тому

    Okay, you two are my new favorite academic crushes. Also, Eleanor, I love your Phrygian-cap-and-guillotine earrings!

  • @michaelellis956
    @michaelellis956 Рік тому +1

    Please more! These 20 mins wend over in no time.

  • @JBT_On_YouTube
    @JBT_On_YouTube 6 місяців тому

    I just downloaded this book, I’m looking forward to reading it! :)

  • @lynnwalton814
    @lynnwalton814 Рік тому +10

    I love these two. Fascinating discussion

  • @kimberlyperrotis8962
    @kimberlyperrotis8962 Рік тому +8

    Even through the Victorian period women were portrayed with lips narrower than the width of their noses. The freakish, unnatural ideal took ages to die out. Poor Julia Roberts, with her beautiful wide mouth and big, perfect teeth, would be a monster to men in the past. Maybe men thought we wanted to kill and eat them?

  • @Freiya2011
    @Freiya2011 5 місяців тому +1

    "Mental gymnastics" ... well, youcan't express it better!

  • @misterhoeflak
    @misterhoeflak Рік тому +3

    Love these two.

  • @kimberlyperrotis8962
    @kimberlyperrotis8962 Рік тому +5

    There was a huge, scientific dating study about 15 or 20 years ago, where each person’s looks, personalities, occupations, wealth, education, etc. were carefully assessed. The conclusions:
    1. women selected men based on their height, the taller the man, the better; and
    2. men selected women for their small waist to hip ratio, in other words, the greater the difference between these measurements, the more desirable the men found them.
    This was the most thorough and objective study I’ve seen and the results have the ring of evolutionary truth about them. The taller the men, the better to protect and provide for a women’s children; the wider a woman’s hips, the better to bear a man’s healthy children.
    I wouldn’t have found a mate with my narrow hips and small bottom!

    • @deedrole5296
      @deedrole5296 Рік тому +2

      if that were necessary evolutionarily speaking, there would be very very few narrow hipped women and short men. They would have been selected out long ago and would be considered biological anamolies. Our preferences are not by default the characteristics of the people we end up with.

    • @badart3204
      @badart3204 10 місяців тому

      @@deedrole5296well it’s moreso that the undesirables just get with each other. You don’t need to be the apex you just have to be the best option available

  • @mild_meme
    @mild_meme Рік тому +18

    If it makes you feel any better, I was born too late for my Henry VIII calves to be truly appreciated. These woulda been like the Lamborghini of legs back in the day.

    • @bethanp3453
      @bethanp3453 Рік тому +2

      😂

    • @amandapittar9398
      @amandapittar9398 3 місяці тому

      I too, have a well turned calf. The Victorian man would have panted for you. His heartbeat would have doubled. Take heart in the fact you will never be a geriatric with stick legs….

  • @reedl2353
    @reedl2353 Рік тому +3

    Good Lord, I would so love to buy the Doctors a beer and I could listen to them talk history for hours. I may pick up a copy of The Once and Future Sex, too. Clever, but not overbearing, title. I do appreciate a good King Arthur allusion! I mean, who doesn't? I'm not even British.

  • @PeterBrown349
    @PeterBrown349 4 місяці тому

    I get to learn a lot about history through this video thankyou 🎉❤

  • @floriangeyer3454
    @floriangeyer3454 Рік тому +3

    Looks, money, status. The same things making you attrractive today and in a million years.

  • @neko-chan6145
    @neko-chan6145 Рік тому +3

    Yay! I was waiting for another video with Eleanor.

  • @R.J._Lewis
    @R.J._Lewis Рік тому +7

    I love the discussion, but I have to say I was distracted by the different filters on the camera lenses and I checked a coiple of times to see if I had accidentally turned on the automatic brightness on my phone. The topic was super interesting though, along with the breadth of the discussion, from medieval beauty standards to cleanliness for everyday people.

    • @stephaniesell5858
      @stephaniesell5858 Рік тому +1

      I was also, and kept wiping my glasses, thinking I had somehow smudged them! lol

  • @arinasosnovskaya5298
    @arinasosnovskaya5298 Рік тому +1

    Thanks!

  • @sharlharmakhis280
    @sharlharmakhis280 4 місяці тому +1

    8:57 Aside from being dark-haired and dark-eyed, *I'm* medieval hot! This is weirdly validating, thanks Kate and Eleanor!

  • @fangsandfolklore8795
    @fangsandfolklore8795 Рік тому +1

    This is great. Thank you! This from a Medievalist.

  • @dragonclaws9367
    @dragonclaws9367 Рік тому

    I loved the Once and Future King..immediately understood the reference. You must shout out Tantivy! And go at the lists! That was my favorite character.

  • @lynnehill2571
    @lynnehill2571 Рік тому +30

    Perfect medieval man is in their 40s, so who is the writer of these descriptions? Men in their 40s

  • @user-rd8id1xk3t
    @user-rd8id1xk3t Рік тому +2

    Bravo! I am so glad to know you have written this. Dismantle the Patriarchy! 😂

  • @junebrilly5302
    @junebrilly5302 Рік тому +1

    However, I love this conversation!! ❤

  • @SD-os2ym
    @SD-os2ym 4 місяці тому

    I love these ladies together! ❤😂

  • @Chickenface12345
    @Chickenface12345 11 місяців тому

    God you ladies have a witty wild energy to you, I loved this!!!

  • @Thursdaysindecember
    @Thursdaysindecember Рік тому +1

    Just bought your book on audio.

  • @lascauxII
    @lascauxII 7 місяців тому +1

    Very entertaining!! Eleanor of Aquitaine had 'red gold' hair and was considered a beauty. I suppose that set a fashion for hair of that colour for a century or two!

    • @grannyannie2948
      @grannyannie2948 4 місяці тому

      She lived to be a good age too. When she got old she made the wimple fashionable which concealed her throat and hair, but it did so for younger pretty women as well. Her second husband, Henry kept her in prison for several years. And she went on Crusade twice. So she was pretty tough.

  • @kimichan5
    @kimichan5 Рік тому +4

    “It’s not that I’m not hot. It’s that I was born hundred of years too late!” 😂