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She's an incredible makeup artist, Ru's mug is better than ever thanks to her. But let's make 1 thing very clear: she was never robbed. Not on S2, not on AS1.
Mathu was and is much more talented than Raven. Remember when Raven first started, how jarring and different Ru looked? Raven can do good makeup on herself, and has learned how to make Ru look good, but she wasn't just naturally good at it. Luckily for her, RuPaul seemed determined to give her every chance and opportunity she possibly could.
And I realize this was about the season 2 shit but I choose to not even pay any attention to that old bullshit people used to say. James absolutely deserved his win and he deserved to be treated like the winner, not someone who "stole" the crown from Raven. Everyone at World of Wonder, including RuPaul, failed James at every point, didn't stand up for their winner, and chose to platform Raven as often as they could. Imagine where Raven would be now if they had actually given James all the opportunities that Raven was handed.
Remember what delta work said “rupaul isn’t looking for a makeup artist, rupaul is looking for a best friend” in which someone that will keep that mouth shut. Hence raven isolating from the community.
Marsha P Johnson, who was instrumental in Stonewall & the gay rights movement, was murdered and police refused to investigate it. There are a couple of documentaries about her life.
Yeah Raven isn't really my cup of tea. She's a very talented makeup artist but her attitude about Tyra has always rubbed me the wrong way. You weren't robbed girl, you just didn't win.
Also it is so unfortunate how bitter someone can seem when they were in the top two. Twice. Bitch she's done something already. AND she was the one that replaced Anderson(?) as RuPaul's makeup artist. Other times the girls are not in the top two in their regular OR their All stars season. It really is screaming entitled brat and i feel sorry for her to a degree becazse it must be hard to be so bitter to not even see how far you've come when there were MANY chances to fuck up in between.
Bingo. Raven was in the bottom 3 times and Tyra never once ended up in the bottom and the week of Snatch game-she has immunity or otherwise she would’ve been sent home.
Has Tyra's behavior been problematic? Yes. Did Tyra absolutely SLAY every time her foot hit the runway? Yes. Two things can be true at the same time. Raven was not robbed. Raven lost. 🤷
Notwithstanding my personal feelings about Raven,I think being terminally offline is a smart choice tbh. It would help so many other queens if they did the same, both for their mental health and their popularity.
I always wondered about Raven's past. Interesting to know that she was inspired by Chad Michaels. But the whole "she put a picture of Katniss Everdeen and hoped to never hear the words hunger games again" made me chuckle
You young people create drama where it doesn't exist. It's like you have to make up all these stupid rules like every generation that ever came before you. Your gen will look just as backward and stupid as all the others 50 years from now.
I have respect for Raven's many talents BUT not as an on screen personality. I live for watching her curse out a loud drunk girl at the club but find her boring on Fashion Photo Ruview and Painted by Raven. She did Tyra dirty and that's not cool.
THE ONLY plausible and reasonable "excuse" Raven has 😂 because my eyes KNOW she was more of a sunkissed hue during the beginning seasons of FPR...and NOW? She's a scrawng, phenomenal woman 😅
Do I think Raven is talented. Yes. Do I think her treatment against Tyra was based off race. Also yes. Do I think Raven was ever robbed on DR. No Do I think Raven needs to use her proper foundation shade. Yes.
Zero Drag Queens use proper foundation, for that fact, almost no woman uses what others say is their "proper" foundation. Make-up was not made to be proper, it never ever will be. Stop being basic.
None of the Queens use proper foundation, but they do blend things to make it look like their skintone with 3-D pop. Raven on the other hand looks like she is darker than Ru Paul.
@@slicunitno queens use theyre proper foundation, they do it to make theyre skin pop like 🐱 but with raven she looks like my black cousin Shaqueensha from my moms side shes darker than rupaul shes darker than the galaxy shes darker than nina bonina brown
I agree. Raven is beautiful and talented. But the whole "robbed" storyline she pushed rubs me the wrong way. "Winning doesnt matter, it's what you do after the show that counts"
And the fact other queens like Raja also pushed that narrative. The winners were all on a panel in 2016 and even tho Tyra was a winner, Raven was there too and nobody asked Tyra anything. So disrespectful. Tyra was mistreated so bad when she won
@@SLa-pb1gg Exactly! Like when I first started getting into drag race I really believed Raven deserved the crown and got robbed (until I actually watched her season) cause everyone else was saying it.
@@SLa-pb1gg I do think it's telling that Tyra did not seem to have any friends in the drag world. The fandom was always gonna be racist, but many other black queens were well respected pillars of their local scene, or just acknowledged by the other queens for being hard working sisters. Jasmine Masters, Kennedy Davenport, Latrice, Bob. All these queens faced racism from the fandom, but their fellow queens always lifted them up. Tyra not so much.
I believe theres a very common phenomenon in competitions where the 2nd place feels worse than the 3rd place because they were so close to winning. You coupd definitely see this in Alaska too
Agreed. Thinking about it, I think they would have been much better off making the joke with Katya instead. Raven seemed like she was bitter and legitimately felt robbed (though I don't think she was). But Katya always said it was silly that people called her robbed for AS2. I think the joke would have landed better (also Katya confusedly showing up would be very on brand for the character).
@@tenormartin277that would also be such a good callback to s7 finale where ru goes to announce the winner and says katya and then asks for some water for her dry throat
Ravens makeup skills are incredible but for me I think that’s her strongest suit. It’s like she a makeup artist that does drag, rather than a drag queen that’s good at makeup. The mug is always super strong but often the rest of the illusion falls flat in my opinion.
maybe it’s bc i’ve seen her live before but raven is a true performer. she doesn’t need to do all the kicks & splits. she’s like latrice in the sense that she will stare you down, emote & serve absolute CUNT without needing to do too much. her presence & aura when performing is captivating. even a lot of drag queens talk about it. mayhem in particular has talked about how raven is one of her favorites to watch perform bc of the way the audience reacts to her being on stage. she’s a PRESENCE & commands the attention of the audience without doing almost anything. i get what you mean but raven is a GREAT drag queen. just bc she’s getting older & has found a solid well paying job in painting Rupaul doesn’t take away from her many many years of being a literal drag legend in the WEHO scene. there’s a reason why queens still reference Raven to this day. she may be a not so great person with questionable actions but so is rupaul. nobody questions her status as a queen tho just bc ru doesn’t perform anymore. bc ru has done her duty when she was young, just like raven did. raven literally birthed a new era of drag queens after season 2 lmao
Yes the fans are terrible. But what really turned me off of the show is how Rupaul and WOW say absolutely nothing in defense of queens that are getting dogpiled online.
I know Kandy Muse said after season 13 that the producers were checking in on her every so often because of the hate she was getting. Tbh there’s nothing they could say that would make anyone stop sending the queens hate
@@greenbeantm1096ofc they can, remember the s14 reunion?? a lot of people started defending Daya after it. the hate definitely went down and the loudest fans were the ones defending Daya. WOW should talk more openly about the hate
Except for Kandy Muse…after casting a Sexual Pre-ator, after other queens of color were being bullied to the point of committing or attempting self-harm. RuPaul and WOW’s care about queens, ESPECIALLY QUEENS OF COLOR, ends when the season wraps and they film the multiple crownings.
I am always amazed how much love she gets. Tatianna was right - she is gorgeous in the outside but inside is dark and nasty. She can't lose with grace. She does black face but at the same time she does not want to date people of color. She takes from Tyra her win and bullies her and generally speaking she is a bully. I don't know how you in the USA can live with this culture of embracing bullies but trust me, here in Europe we do not embrace the culture of bullies. She should have been cancelled, banned and let go.
@@zaasfromparis Constantly over=painting herself in a dark tones, too dark for caucasian person, isn't a black face? Do your homework honey, meanwhile I block you because you clearly got KETCHUP on your SAT
@@zaasfromparis she is not tanned like that it‘s makeup. there is a video of a zoom for a wow youtube table talk thing where she was in boy makeup but didn‘t cover her neck in foundation which definitely made it look so much weirder
i literally thought raven was mixed race for most of my drag race viewing, so i would 100% consider her blackfishing. also acid betty’s impersonation of her was soooo accurate lmao
As someone from the U.K. there’s definitely a fake tan culture but you can very much tell they’re white, Raven’s tan feels a lot more intentionally ethnically ambiguous and that’s where it crosses the line to me
Raven has so much privilege with the RPDR fan base and production team and that has always rubbed me wrong. She has been problematic in speech and action since she started out and the fans praise her so much for it. Just brings up how the POC Queens are treated so viciously for having similar attitude traits.
I really hope she doesn’t compete again I can only see that going poorly - for her and us both because if she were to win, she would never beat the producer favoritism allegations (and it would be the most valid that claim has every been given how connected she is to production), and if she were to lose it would be the third strike proving she was never robbed she just wasn’t the best The “robbed” reputation along with her ties to WOW are already paying her bills and keeping her name in the mouths of drag race fans, no need to try to push it further
i won’t lie that ravens super influential but i can’t get behind her being darker than ru n i hate the way she still to this day maintains that she was robbed twice but then complains abt the hate tyra was getting like she wasn’t inciting some of it smh.
I remember that here in Brazil everyone always wondered why she never came around here, unlike all other queens who have been here multiple times. Then, I've read on Reddit that she wouldn't come to South America and would say that backstage all the time. After that, I could never see her in a different light.
With the way latino fans always suck up her ass that's pretty lame. At least on the spanish speaking side of the fandom they looooooove Raven and throw all the hate to Tyra, like they're still stuck on 2012.
I was a late bloomer to the show. I came in at season 13. I went back and watched each season in chronological order. I had always heard of how amazing and wonderful raven is so when I finally got to see her my reaction to her was negative to say the least. I don’t understand how so many of the fandom can by so hypocritical when the topic of bullying comes up. During her season she was a sh*t-talking diva who didn’t merely throw shade but was all around mean spirited. She was never robbed, Tyra ate her up on that runway week after week and to this day she still comes for Tyra’s crown after all these years of her apparent success. I get WoW played a role in Tyra’s downfall but James didn’t need her fellow sister adding fuel to the fire with the robbed comments. Rather than be happy for her sister and show support she ran with a false narrative to this day. And had the unmitigated Gaul to come into a winners all stars like she belonged . She is talented however she piggy backs off of the people who set the ground work before hand. Mathu’s beat and Tyra’s win. Without these things she is nothing but a sore loser. Long live King Tyra
i started the show the day the first ep of season 7 aired (cause my friends watched it and i wanted to know what‘s up) and when i watched the old seasons back i felt the same (same goes for raja on season 3 to an extent tbh).
Right but they shame vixen, kandy, luxx, and countless others for the same thing they ignore about raven and put raven on a pedestal like she didn’t cuss ppl out
@@user-ke5rt3ji8cThe fandom really does pick and choose. They wanna act like eureka didn’t antagonize the vixen or that seasons have been cookie cut so mistress spiced it up a lil. Honestly I’m caught up with the show now and despite all the countless winners Tyra is will always be my favorite winner of all. In terms of behavior Tyra was more bratty her season (and who doesn’t love a sassy queen). But compared to ravens malicious demeanor yeah I just don’t get it. However raven is talented and I respectfully keep my opinions to myself and the fellow fans. Never send negativity to the queens
@@user-ke5rt3ji8c S2 was different era, everyone was just learning to navigate social media and not bad behaviour; etiquette wasn’t quite as it is now. Production got away with a lot then.
Ravens persona was dark from day one. It’s in the name. Anyone who’s seen her since those early shows knows she had a vision from the beginning. Raven. Morgan. Mayhem we’re all integral to the renaissance of drag as we now know it. These were the girls Rupaul was watching before she did the show. She probably already had them in mind. Raja of course was already the Godess of drag and likely was a huge inspiration to Raja. Raja was dark and twisted back in the day. Still is really but she doesn’t keep her poker face like she used to. Raven does. Without Raven being an utter bitch on Drag Race, it just would have not been fierce to watch.
In like 2015 I spent a thanksgiving with raven/David. (His boyfriend is my cousin) And when I tell you he was the most friendly fun person to be around. He was so kind and exactly how I thought he would be. Even though his personality is a little stern he’s overall a good energy to have around. This tv stuff shouldn’t define him as a person because in reality we all don’t know him personally.
I mean you don’t really KNOW her either from meeting her once on a family holiday. I don’t think you can make a judgment call on her personality and internal integrity any more than we can
That is the overall point: we don’t really know them from what is seen on TV. But having dinner with them is actually real, and likely to see the true person. Let the person who met her in a private setting have her opinion & experience. I love Raven from my living room.
@@maddieb.4282 have YOU met him though? Have you even had a simple conversation with him? NO so therefore I can make a judgement call . And there were plenty of other family parties he attended. So please have several seats 😂 I also didn’t claim to know “her”.
Yet white folks judged, bullied, gaslit and threatened James/King Tyra without having met him. Y'all can humanize any shitty cracker but give copious amounts of excuses for why hating Black queens is acceptable.
I think Trixie said it best, why should drag queens have to be such a beacon of positivity/good morals? They are night life entertainers. And up until the mainstream success of drag race it was a heavily stigmatized identity, even among the queer community.
There’s a fine line between reading each other and mean girl behavior tho. What happened to Tyra caused her great pain & depression. Raven’s behavior was disgusting.
Raven is nowhere near black anything. If anyone could complain about Raven’s complexion it would be Latinos or other Brown people but they're not because we are not as ridiculous with that crap.
With Raven I think what's always frustrated me as a black person isn't that she was mean or read people hard on her season (and legitimately bullied Tatianna) but that when she did it then people would say 'oh that's just her personality' but with James/Tyra it became a firestorm of hate for over a decade. And Raven has stayed the same and it's always been fine but year after year black queens have to behave themselves in certain ways in order to not be given hate. Also yeah - the blackfishing and continually getting darker IS weird IMO but god forbid anyone point it out because then we're 'just hating' or something else.
All I’m going to say on the topic of Raven is, if my only bit of relevancy came from being the makeup artist for an African-American artist (RuPaul) as well as my friendship with a more famous Asian artist (Jujubee), I’d cool it on the “Vanilla and spice, no chocolate and rice” as well as the blackfishing (Which Raven wrote in a dating profile)
STOP I was soing my makeup during the ad and the second you started talking about your hairy balls I went ROLLING 😭😂 Top tier, I'm subscribing for my boyfriend
The Raven yelling at the woman moment was hilarious to me. I dont think id be able to keep a straight face if Raven was yelling at me like that. Id be laughing. But id also not be screeching hysterically and being obnoxious so.....great vid!
The thing that always blows my mind is that Raven is from Victorville, Ca. Living in the high desert myself for almost a decade and raising my kids here, I can’t help but feel an overwhelming sense of pride!! RAVENNNNNN, Baby you made it. ❣
Controversies aside I think younger fans seldom understand how influential Ravens technical approach to drag makeup is. Before her stint in drag race very few queens really sculpted the eyes and did contour the way she did. Often in interviews tones of younger queens often credit her as their main inspiration in drag.
I remember hearing about when Britta was getting a lot of negativity from the fans. I sent her a positive message. I didnt like how the producers edited her but thats not who she is as a person! I think everyone needs to take a deep breath and “everyone say LOVE!” Just love each other and the art at the end of the day! “If you can’t love yourself, how in the hell are you gonna love anybody else? Can I get an AMEN?! ❤💕
Tbh tanning culture in the UK is wild😂 I'm now not surrounded by it as the people in my life don't care for it but it became a big thing early on in high school for me. I always felt bad about it because all the popular girls would use a lot of fake tan and I could never get it to work because I'm so pale. However, those girls were also super pale and basically turned orange and that combined with that god awful trend of bleach blonde hair and concealed lips doesn't make me miss those days. It's definitely an issue in the UK, even more so in certain areas of the country, but I'm not sure how much of it is actually blackfishing as you can see that they're just heavily tanned white ladies. Regardless though, I'm really not the one who should be deciding it's problematic nature or not as I'm so white that the lightest shades of foundation were too dark for me. It's just an odd part of British culture that I have no idea how or why it happens.
Katy price. Mostly haha, fr tho she drove a lot of trends early on and even tho she didn't pioneer tanning, her popularity and infamy brought it definitely to the cultures sight. It was refined in the shows only way is essux and jordy shore but also the sun chaser clique of people, the type who always go to Cyprus, Spain, ibiza every year. It really has nothing to do with black fishing or black face, it's supposed to look like an over the top tan and it does lol
@@REALLYLOVESCATS ngl personally i have a hard time believing that the root of it isn‘t wanting a more „exotic 🙄“ appearance. i don‘t think it‘s like with a bad intention though
“as someone with hairy balls” 😆 that sent me honestly. PS. every person with balls grows hair on them, it’s human, you just shave it if you want and some prefer not to.
The same queen who made a transphobic joke towards Carmen Carrera and made fun of Blair's SA? Kindness my ass 😹 If anyone were to replace Ru, it should be Bob
I've watched "Painted" and I LOVED IT!! i find it hard to beleiveable you haven't watched it. It you are going to make videos about Drag Queens... How come you haven't watched it??
I was always kinda "Meh" on Raven but when I learned that she fed into the Narrative that she was "robbed" by Tyra, the meh turned to dislike real fast.
In Season 2, there were villain queens like Tyra being self-centered and Raven being mean. Jujubee was very charismatic but never gave material to get to the top. Tatiana was the "hero", she showed talent more than a pretty face but without a doubt her drag persona needed to grow. For me the best one and the one that should have been the winner of the season was Pandora Boxx, she had looks that I liked, she had that charisma, personal story. we would have had camp queen
Ravens skin color is her choice, end of. Painted w Raven I've watched, and it is entertaining. I think she is smart to ignore neg comments from fans/strangers. I feel she is just trying to do what most of are, living.
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thank you for telling us you have hairy balls
For girls too? Except... You know, ball stick
I love eating smelly bolls.
Get the bag babe
Why did you trigger me with your hairy balls, dude? Now, I can only think about them every minute of the day.
She's an incredible makeup artist, Ru's mug is better than ever thanks to her. But let's make 1 thing very clear: she was never robbed. Not on S2, not on AS1.
To be fair she just had to improve upon what Mathu Andersen already created
naw, mathu's mug was better imo
Mathus mug is better let’s be real
Mathu was and is much more talented than Raven. Remember when Raven first started, how jarring and different Ru looked? Raven can do good makeup on herself, and has learned how to make Ru look good, but she wasn't just naturally good at it. Luckily for her, RuPaul seemed determined to give her every chance and opportunity she possibly could.
And I realize this was about the season 2 shit but I choose to not even pay any attention to that old bullshit people used to say. James absolutely deserved his win and he deserved to be treated like the winner, not someone who "stole" the crown from Raven. Everyone at World of Wonder, including RuPaul, failed James at every point, didn't stand up for their winner, and chose to platform Raven as often as they could. Imagine where Raven would be now if they had actually given James all the opportunities that Raven was handed.
Remember what delta work said “rupaul isn’t looking for a makeup artist, rupaul is looking for a best friend” in which someone that will keep that mouth shut. Hence raven isolating from the community.
this is such a devastating read to rupaul lmao
I'd play Rupaul's Best Friend Race if I could get that VH1 bag.
It’s not rupaul’s best friend race!
remember she called chad bitter for shading sharon meanwhile shes claiming to be robbed of winning twice.... pot calling the kettle black
"This b!tch is kinda bitter!" *whole reputation is about being a runner up*
“Pot calling the kettle black” ironic choice of words when talking about the phish-i-est queen!
And Chad Michaels could’ve won that season She had a good track record too Raven was nowhere near winning her season.
@@hay6930Nor All Stars 1
@@greenbeantm1096 Phish-i-est dskdsvHDV YOU ARE A GENIOUS LMAOOO
“N-Nobody was killed at Stonewall?” Will always send me every time
Honestly I refuse to believe no one was killed during the riots. I feel like at least one person was and it was covered up
@@greenbeantm1096absolutely, I remember taking a class where we explored the people who were there but don’t seem to “exist” anymore.
@@erica-5198maybe because they…died?? On average, everyone would be older than 75 years old today if they were at least 21 in 1969
Marsha P Johnson, who was instrumental in Stonewall & the gay rights movement, was murdered and police refused to investigate it. There are a couple of documentaries about her life.
To Jujupiter ackshually
Yeah Raven isn't really my cup of tea. She's a very talented makeup artist but her attitude about Tyra has always rubbed me the wrong way. You weren't robbed girl, you just didn't win.
you hit the nail on the head with this
That part. She’s always given me “entitled brat”
…and Ru picks the winner for each season.
Also it is so unfortunate how bitter someone can seem when they were in the top two. Twice. Bitch she's done something already. AND she was the one that replaced Anderson(?) as RuPaul's makeup artist.
Other times the girls are not in the top two in their regular OR their All stars season. It really is screaming entitled brat and i feel sorry for her to a degree becazse it must be hard to be so bitter to not even see how far you've come when there were MANY chances to fuck up in between.
Bingo. Raven was in the bottom 3 times and Tyra never once ended up in the bottom and the week of Snatch game-she has immunity or otherwise she would’ve been sent home.
Has Tyra's behavior been problematic? Yes. Did Tyra absolutely SLAY every time her foot hit the runway? Yes. Two things can be true at the same time. Raven was not robbed. Raven lost. 🤷
This. Tyra is just so volatile to function
Exactly. And with the growth that Tyra has had recently I think it’s time we move on lmao, Raven is completely fine
EXACTLY @@azsazazsa
It must be hard putting a lot into drag and being treated so poorly fans of the franchise and not doing as well as other queens.
oh damn lol
I know this is about Raven but I love Bob and Thorgy's friendship.
Yes
😂
Also look up Thorgy performing "F*ck your purse" 😍😂
@@laluneroi by the time this drink makes it all the way to the back of the plane, I’m sure the ice would have melted by then 😂
@@nicholask5850 #justiceforthorgy
thorgy performing the apology with bob wheeling her out is genuinely the funniest thing ever 😭😭
I loved every bit of that 😂
but we can’t ignore the fart bit! 😂😭
Finally some representation for the queens of color on your channel
💀
LOL it took me a second but now im laughing 😂😂
He did a video about TBK sweetie
@@octaviogodina3973issa joke lol
@octaviogodina3973 the joke is that ravens tan makes her look racially ambiguous
Notwithstanding my personal feelings about Raven,I think being terminally offline is a smart choice tbh. It would help so many other queens if they did the same, both for their mental health and their popularity.
I always wondered about Raven's past. Interesting to know that she was inspired by Chad Michaels. But the whole "she put a picture of Katniss Everdeen and hoped to never hear the words hunger games again" made me chuckle
I need someone to find that post
I feel like Raven couldn't be the 'RuPaul' in Rupaul's Dragrace but I think she'd make an amazing 'Michelle'.
She is the one and only color changing queen! what an icon!
We love a chameleon queen!
You young people create drama where it doesn't exist. It's like you have to make up all these stupid rules like every generation that ever came before you. Your gen will look just as backward and stupid as all the others 50 years from now.
I guess you’ve never heard of Eureka O’Hara
@@Alsyoutubeaccount does she blackfish?
DEADDD LMGGG
I have respect for Raven's many talents BUT not as an on screen personality. I live for watching her curse out a loud drunk girl at the club but find her boring on Fashion Photo Ruview and Painted by Raven. She did Tyra dirty and that's not cool.
We love a queen who pays attention to money! She simply uses Ru's make-up for herself too!😍😍💅
LMAOOOOOOO
THE ONLY plausible and reasonable "excuse" Raven has 😂 because my eyes KNOW she was more of a sunkissed hue during the beginning seasons of FPR...and NOW? She's a scrawng, phenomenal woman 😅
💀💀💀
Thrifty queen
Do I think Raven is talented. Yes.
Do I think her treatment against Tyra was based off race. Also yes.
Do I think Raven was ever robbed on DR. No
Do I think Raven needs to use her proper foundation shade. Yes.
Zero Drag Queens use proper foundation, for that fact, almost no woman uses what others say is their "proper" foundation.
Make-up was not made to be proper, it never ever will be. Stop being basic.
@slicunit Ravens white yet she uses dark foundation........ so yeah, she needs to use proper foundation.
@@zanefeylerand who are you?
None of the Queens use proper foundation, but they do blend things to make it look like their skintone with 3-D pop. Raven on the other hand looks like she is darker than Ru Paul.
@@slicunitno queens use theyre proper foundation, they do it to make theyre skin pop like 🐱 but with raven she looks like my black cousin Shaqueensha from my moms side shes darker than rupaul shes darker than the galaxy shes darker than nina bonina brown
I agree. Raven is beautiful and talented. But the whole "robbed" storyline she pushed rubs me the wrong way. "Winning doesnt matter, it's what you do after the show that counts"
And the fact other queens like Raja also pushed that narrative. The winners were all on a panel in 2016 and even tho Tyra was a winner, Raven was there too and nobody asked Tyra anything. So disrespectful. Tyra was mistreated so bad when she won
@@SLa-pb1gg Exactly! Like when I first started getting into drag race I really believed Raven deserved the crown and got robbed (until I actually watched her season) cause everyone else was saying it.
@@SLa-pb1gg I do think it's telling that Tyra did not seem to have any friends in the drag world. The fandom was always gonna be racist, but many other black queens were well respected pillars of their local scene, or just acknowledged by the other queens for being hard working sisters. Jasmine Masters, Kennedy Davenport, Latrice, Bob. All these queens faced racism from the fandom, but their fellow queens always lifted them up. Tyra not so much.
I believe theres a very common phenomenon in competitions where the 2nd place feels worse than the 3rd place because they were so close to winning. You coupd definitely see this in Alaska too
I was surprised on All Stars 8 when they made the same "she was robbed" joke. I really don't think she was lol
Agreed. Thinking about it, I think they would have been much better off making the joke with Katya instead. Raven seemed like she was bitter and legitimately felt robbed (though I don't think she was). But Katya always said it was silly that people called her robbed for AS2. I think the joke would have landed better (also Katya confusedly showing up would be very on brand for the character).
@@tenormartin277that would also be such a good callback to s7 finale where ru goes to announce the winner and says katya and then asks for some water for her dry throat
Yeah...... it was a joke
@@Markane62 was it really? When you look at the relationship between WOW and James at that time, I think it was very much shade at him.
Ravens makeup skills are incredible but for me I think that’s her strongest suit. It’s like she a makeup artist that does drag, rather than a drag queen that’s good at makeup. The mug is always super strong but often the rest of the illusion falls flat in my opinion.
agreed
Very well put
maybe it’s bc i’ve seen her live before but raven is a true performer. she doesn’t need to do all the kicks & splits. she’s like latrice in the sense that she will stare you down, emote & serve absolute CUNT without needing to do too much. her presence & aura when performing is captivating. even a lot of drag queens talk about it. mayhem in particular has talked about how raven is one of her favorites to watch perform bc of the way the audience reacts to her being on stage. she’s a PRESENCE & commands the attention of the audience without doing almost anything. i get what you mean but raven is a GREAT drag queen. just bc she’s getting older & has found a solid well paying job in painting Rupaul doesn’t take away from her many many years of being a literal drag legend in the WEHO scene. there’s a reason why queens still reference Raven to this day. she may be a not so great person with questionable actions but so is rupaul. nobody questions her status as a queen tho just bc ru doesn’t perform anymore. bc ru has done her duty when she was young, just like raven did. raven literally birthed a new era of drag queens after season 2 lmao
“she lacks any endearing personality” took me outtttt
‘honestly as someone with hairy balls’ caught me so off guard-
Wait I missed that 😂
@@greenbeantm1096 right at the beginning of the sponsor lol!
Same tho 😂
Yes the fans are terrible. But what really turned me off of the show is how Rupaul and WOW say absolutely nothing in defense of queens that are getting dogpiled online.
The least they could do is hire a team to help.
I know Kandy Muse said after season 13 that the producers were checking in on her every so often because of the hate she was getting. Tbh there’s nothing they could say that would make anyone stop sending the queens hate
@@greenbeantm1096ofc they can, remember the s14 reunion?? a lot of people started defending Daya after it. the hate definitely went down and the loudest fans were the ones defending Daya. WOW should talk more openly about the hate
Except for Kandy Muse…after casting a Sexual Pre-ator, after other queens of color were being bullied to the point of committing or attempting self-harm. RuPaul and WOW’s care about queens, ESPECIALLY QUEENS OF COLOR, ends when the season wraps and they film the multiple crownings.
Raven be changing colors in this videos like 100 times
Imagine the alternative universe where *miss fame* said yes to the call. And Ru’s mug is miss fame’s 😮😮😮
I am always amazed how much love she gets. Tatianna was right - she is gorgeous in the outside but inside is dark and nasty. She can't lose with grace. She does black face but at the same time she does not want to date people of color. She takes from Tyra her win and bullies her and generally speaking she is a bully. I don't know how you in the USA can live with this culture of embracing bullies but trust me, here in Europe we do not embrace the culture of bullies. She should have been cancelled, banned and let go.
Black face ? So now an over tanned person is doing black face ? You need to check the definition before commenting !
@@zaasfromparis Constantly over=painting herself in a dark tones, too dark for caucasian person, isn't a black face? Do your homework honey, meanwhile I block you because you clearly got KETCHUP on your SAT
@@zaasfromparis she is not tanned like that it‘s makeup. there is a video of a zoom for a wow youtube table talk thing where she was in boy makeup but didn‘t cover her neck in foundation which definitely made it look so much weirder
In Europe she would be even more praised because europeans aren't as sensitive as americans
Now I've got to see it! 😂
Can you tag the link?!
i literally thought raven was mixed race for most of my drag race viewing, so i would 100% consider her blackfishing. also acid betty’s impersonation of her was soooo accurate lmao
That situation with Mayhem is a perfect example of why 3 best friends doesn't usually work out so well...
You forgot Raven’s Grindr profile: “Yes to sugar and spice. Pass on the chocolate and rice.
I’m sorry, WHAT
That's worse than anything in the video
And you think your race or enthinicy makes it entitled to sex?😂
I'm slow, wtf does that even mean? 😭😭
@@raetheanarchist Yes to white and Latino guys - no to Black and Asian guys...
As someone from the U.K. there’s definitely a fake tan culture but you can very much tell they’re white, Raven’s tan feels a lot more intentionally ethnically ambiguous and that’s where it crosses the line to me
Exactly it's the difference between orange and brown, and I've never seen a fake tanned person here that passes the brown paper bag test
Raven has so much privilege with the RPDR fan base and production team and that has always rubbed me wrong. She has been problematic in speech and action since she started out and the fans praise her so much for it. Just brings up how the POC Queens are treated so viciously for having similar attitude traits.
All this with a Large fry and Mtd Dew, No Ice.
"There's no reason I showed you this clip, I just found it kinda funny." I needed that clip in my life so thank you ma'am.
I really hope she doesn’t compete again
I can only see that going poorly - for her and us both because if she were to win, she would never beat the producer favoritism allegations (and it would be the most valid that claim has every been given how connected she is to production), and if she were to lose it would be the third strike proving she was never robbed she just wasn’t the best
The “robbed” reputation along with her ties to WOW are already paying her bills and keeping her name in the mouths of drag race fans, no need to try to push it further
Green Gay - "No one likes smelly balls."
Me - "Don't tell me what I do, and don't like!" 😠
Ah yes, musty nuts
🥳👍
Okay but fr musk is quite nice 😂😂
Ew Michelle
I like balls to smell like MAN!
Raven the homie and i love sis. With that being said, Tyra still won. James legacy will not be erased ❤
The Derrick Barry of RPDR S2!! Much love to our Ariana impersonator
why ariana catching strays 😭😭
i won’t lie that ravens super influential but i can’t get behind her being darker than ru n i hate the way she still to this day maintains that she was robbed twice but then complains abt the hate tyra was getting like she wasn’t inciting some of it smh.
Honestly, I feel like her talents as a makeup artist does not excuse being one of the enablers of the ridiculous, “Raven was robbed” narrative.
I don’t think she enabled anything. I watch S2 as it premiered .. when she didn’t win I was in shock. Tyra was clearly and unapologetically a b*tch
Congrats on your sobriety. Definitely lean into doing the topics you feel passionate about. This was a great video. It would be fun if you did more.
I love a POC runner up 🎉🎉🎉
Tanning is very popular in the UK but it’s unusual to tan that dark
I've been a fan of the show since it's inception and straight up thought Raven was latino until last year.
It's more orange than brown lol
you can also always tell it's just a tan, ppl never actually try to look non-white beyond that
Thank you for making videos about queens of color❤️
Hold up…😂
@@mels1921🤭
I remember that here in Brazil everyone always wondered why she never came around here, unlike all other queens who have been here multiple times. Then, I've read on Reddit that she wouldn't come to South America and would say that backstage all the time. After that, I could never see her in a different light.
With the way latino fans always suck up her ass that's pretty lame. At least on the spanish speaking side of the fandom they looooooove Raven and throw all the hate to Tyra, like they're still stuck on 2012.
I was a late bloomer to the show. I came in at season 13. I went back and watched each season in chronological order. I had always heard of how amazing and wonderful raven is so when I finally got to see her my reaction to her was negative to say the least. I don’t understand how so many of the fandom can by so hypocritical when the topic of bullying comes up. During her season she was a sh*t-talking diva who didn’t merely throw shade but was all around mean spirited. She was never robbed, Tyra ate her up on that runway week after week and to this day she still comes for Tyra’s crown after all these years of her apparent success. I get WoW played a role in Tyra’s downfall but James didn’t need her fellow sister adding fuel to the fire with the robbed comments. Rather than be happy for her sister and show support she ran with a false narrative to this day. And had the unmitigated Gaul to come into a winners all stars like she belonged . She is talented however she piggy backs off of the people who set the ground work before hand. Mathu’s beat and Tyra’s win. Without these things she is nothing but a sore loser. Long live King Tyra
i started the show the day the first ep of season 7 aired (cause my friends watched it and i wanted to know what‘s up) and when i watched the old seasons back i felt the same (same goes for raja on season 3 to an extent tbh).
well said👍👍👍
Right but they shame vixen, kandy, luxx, and countless others for the same thing they ignore about raven and put raven on a pedestal like she didn’t cuss ppl out
@@user-ke5rt3ji8cThe fandom really does pick and choose. They wanna act like eureka didn’t antagonize the vixen or that seasons have been cookie cut so mistress spiced it up a lil. Honestly I’m caught up with the show now and despite all the countless winners Tyra is will always be my favorite winner of all. In terms of behavior Tyra was more bratty her season (and who doesn’t love a sassy queen). But compared to ravens malicious demeanor yeah I just don’t get it. However raven is talented and I respectfully keep my opinions to myself and the fellow fans. Never send negativity to the queens
@@user-ke5rt3ji8c S2 was different era, everyone was just learning to navigate social media and not bad behaviour; etiquette wasn’t quite as it is now. Production got away with a lot then.
We're pretty lucky to have AS1!?! It gave one of the greatest moments of all time: Mimi Imfurst vs. Everyone.
"Sit down and quiet your ass UP!" Lmaoooo i feel bad for the girl she had to gather but that was funny. Also, a little embarrassing lol
Nah if you’re fucking around enough for any performer to call you out while on stage I have zero sympathy for you 😂
I have to be honest, Raja , and Raven are some of my fav queens now. However, in their seasons they were bullies. Im glad they changed.
It made for great TV, it's fans like you that ruin it for the rest of us and then complain about boring seasons
They were just catty bitchy drag queens
I have to agree. But you know what, maybe it's part of drag culture to be somewhat mean towards your peers without it being that deep. Idk
@@maraiakereibr3059what about being an asshole, is that part if the culture?
@@maraiakereibr3059 it absolutely is lol, the fans are the ones who take it too seriously
congratulations on being sober ! love your videos always 💙
recovering from a nasty heel break atm and ur channel is single-handedly healing me better than any painkiller
Ravens persona was dark from day one. It’s in the name. Anyone who’s seen her since those early shows knows she had a vision from the beginning. Raven. Morgan. Mayhem we’re all integral to the renaissance of drag as we now know it. These were the girls Rupaul was watching before she did the show. She probably already had them in mind. Raja of course was already the Godess of drag and likely was a huge inspiration to Raja. Raja was dark and twisted back in the day. Still is really but she doesn’t keep her poker face like she used to. Raven does. Without Raven being an utter bitch on Drag Race, it just would have not been fierce to watch.
"Honestly as someone with hairy balls"
Excuse me? 💀
This needs more attention
This was the vulnerability we were looking for
Some people who get sponsored by manscape often wear the underwear in the ad. Just saying.
In like 2015 I spent a thanksgiving with raven/David. (His boyfriend is my cousin) And when I tell you he was the most friendly fun person to be around. He was so kind and exactly how I thought he would be. Even though his personality is a little stern he’s overall a good energy to have around. This tv stuff shouldn’t define him as a person because in reality we all don’t know him personally.
this is an EXTREMELY good point tbh. people forget this.
I mean you don’t really KNOW her either from meeting her once on a family holiday. I don’t think you can make a judgment call on her personality and internal integrity any more than we can
That is the overall point: we don’t really know them from what is seen on TV. But having dinner with them is actually real, and likely to see the true person. Let the person who met her in a private setting have her opinion & experience.
I love Raven from my living room.
@@maddieb.4282 have YOU met him though? Have you even had a simple conversation with him? NO so therefore I can make a judgement call . And there were plenty of other family parties he attended. So please have several seats 😂 I also didn’t claim to know “her”.
Yet white folks judged, bullied, gaslit and threatened James/King Tyra without having met him. Y'all can humanize any shitty cracker but give copious amounts of excuses for why hating Black queens is acceptable.
I think Trixie said it best, why should drag queens have to be such a beacon of positivity/good morals? They are night life entertainers. And up until the mainstream success of drag race it was a heavily stigmatized identity, even among the queer community.
There’s a fine line between reading each other and mean girl behavior tho. What happened to Tyra caused her great pain & depression. Raven’s behavior was disgusting.
You're mean and it shows
If you want to know where the line between black fishing and black face is ask Raven. She literally has one foot on each side of that line.
One line on either side of her nose, lol!!!
@@hummingbird3771 🤣🤣🤣
I cackled 😂😂😂
Raven is nowhere near black anything. If anyone could complain about Raven’s complexion it would be Latinos or other Brown people but they're not because we are not as ridiculous with that crap.
@@pussycatbot who is “we”? I’m literally brown and complaining. Now sit the fuq down.
Raven was never “robbed”, she just did BADLY. Twice. ✌🏽
Second place is not doing badly, how many TV shows have you won?
@@raulvega4016 just as many as raven has
With Raven I think what's always frustrated me as a black person isn't that she was mean or read people hard on her season (and legitimately bullied Tatianna) but that when she did it then people would say 'oh that's just her personality' but with James/Tyra it became a firestorm of hate for over a decade. And Raven has stayed the same and it's always been fine but year after year black queens have to behave themselves in certain ways in order to not be given hate. Also yeah - the blackfishing and continually getting darker IS weird IMO but god forbid anyone point it out because then we're 'just hating' or something else.
you should do a "what-if's" series. like, what if sasha's wig reveal never happened, or iconic moments of the sort
This!💃
Oh I'd love that!!
All I’m going to say on the topic of Raven is, if my only bit of relevancy came from being the makeup artist for an African-American artist (RuPaul) as well as my friendship with a more famous Asian artist (Jujubee), I’d cool it on the “Vanilla and spice, no chocolate and rice” as well as the blackfishing
(Which Raven wrote in a dating profile)
I would like to see more queens on the judges panel. Each episode have a different queen who has participated before as a judge.
STOP I was soing my makeup during the ad and the second you started talking about your hairy balls I went ROLLING 😭😂 Top tier, I'm subscribing for my boyfriend
The fact raven thought she was robbed from Tyra is the funniest shit EVERR
I honestly love wat Bing till the end to hear all the patreon members and hear for poppersalberta because that name is so iconic
Raven is literally a chameleon
23:41 DAMNNN greengay is NOT taking prisoners today HAHAHA
I can totally see, Sasha Colby being the main host and Raven as the Michelle, who is harsh but still helpful
Monét would be fun, too.
The Raven yelling at the woman moment was hilarious to me. I dont think id be able to keep a straight face if Raven was yelling at me like that. Id be laughing. But id also not be screeching hysterically and being obnoxious so.....great vid!
The thing that always blows my mind is that Raven is from Victorville, Ca. Living in the high desert myself for almost a decade and raising my kids here, I can’t help but feel an overwhelming sense of pride!! RAVENNNNNN, Baby you made it. ❣
thorgy’s performance is SO FUNNY
" there's something about raven" NO there is something on her face, help her
Interested to see the comment section on this one lol! Love your content as always!!
She kind of in a since the Tiffany Pollard of Drag Race. She lost twice but is has grown her brand so ridiculously bigger than even some winners
i feel like katya is the 2x loser that really made it tbh but raven is up there
That was some BLUNT honesty in the manscaped ad I had to look up from what I was doing lmao
i could see sasha colby taking over as the host of drag race tbh
Ew no
@@mirrkareem8586 tfym ew?
I am a 100% Raven fan. She is my top 3 favorite queens ever!
Raven. Our Black Queen
I don't think she's trying to look black. She's going for a latina tan look. Black peoole are not the only ones with brown skin
Because you all know Tyra wasn't cut out to be a Queen.
@@maraiakereibr3059 I like Raven, but this was a dumb ass comment you just made
LET HER BE TAN WHO CARES 😂
@@elruben3679that’s not tan that’s black, and a large part of an entire community cares
I was surprised at how much I loved painted with raven, it is very gentle and low key for a reality show
Controversies aside I think younger fans seldom understand how influential Ravens technical approach to drag makeup is. Before her stint in drag race very few queens really sculpted the eyes and did contour the way she did. Often in interviews tones of younger queens often credit her as their main inspiration in drag.
Omg I just saw Crimsyn at a drag brunch and didn't realize it was Matt from season 1 of Painted until now, she is an INCREDIBLE queen!
16:40 LMAO NOT THE SQUAT AND POINT. I had to rewind a couple times 😭
Now Squat and point
I’ve been a Raven fan since she appeared on the show!
The rpdr fandom is insane , they’d cancel someone based off a vibe but not a domestic terrorist
“As someone with hairy balls” really did catch me off guard, I’ll be honest 😂
I remember hearing about when Britta was getting a lot of negativity from the fans. I sent her a positive message. I didnt like how the producers edited her but thats not who she is as a person!
I think everyone needs to take a deep breath and “everyone say LOVE!” Just love each other and the art at the end of the day! “If you can’t love yourself, how in the hell are you gonna love anybody else? Can I get an AMEN?! ❤💕
Im loving your contact. I have more time this month, so I'm following everything. Thanks and congrats on your journey;)
Tbh tanning culture in the UK is wild😂 I'm now not surrounded by it as the people in my life don't care for it but it became a big thing early on in high school for me. I always felt bad about it because all the popular girls would use a lot of fake tan and I could never get it to work because I'm so pale. However, those girls were also super pale and basically turned orange and that combined with that god awful trend of bleach blonde hair and concealed lips doesn't make me miss those days. It's definitely an issue in the UK, even more so in certain areas of the country, but I'm not sure how much of it is actually blackfishing as you can see that they're just heavily tanned white ladies. Regardless though, I'm really not the one who should be deciding it's problematic nature or not as I'm so white that the lightest shades of foundation were too dark for me. It's just an odd part of British culture that I have no idea how or why it happens.
Katy price. Mostly haha, fr tho she drove a lot of trends early on and even tho she didn't pioneer tanning, her popularity and infamy brought it definitely to the cultures sight. It was refined in the shows only way is essux and jordy shore but also the sun chaser clique of people, the type who always go to Cyprus, Spain, ibiza every year. It really has nothing to do with black fishing or black face, it's supposed to look like an over the top tan and it does lol
ngl though i do wonder why they wanna look tan? like why?
@@miraza. i'm assuming its because people want what they dont have, and for the uk, it's good weather haha. you can't catch a tan here naturally.
As a fellow pale person. I’ve seen enough POC talk badly about black phishing (sometimes Raven specifically) to condemn it
@@REALLYLOVESCATS ngl personally i have a hard time believing that the root of it isn‘t wanting a more „exotic 🙄“ appearance. i don‘t think it‘s like with a bad intention though
You should seriously consider creating a podcast for Spotify. I could listen to you talk about iconic queens and the things we way not know FOREVER
“as someone with hairy balls” 😆 that sent me honestly.
PS. every person with balls grows hair on them, it’s human, you just shave it if you want and some prefer not to.
im surprised the grindr screenshots are not in the mix hereee
I personally believe Bianca Del Rio would be the best queen to replace ru due to her kindness and charisma 🤭
Absolutely!
The same queen who made a transphobic joke towards Carmen Carrera and made fun of Blair's SA? Kindness my ass 😹 If anyone were to replace Ru, it should be Bob
I've watched "Painted" and I LOVED IT!! i find it hard to beleiveable you haven't watched it. It you are going to make videos about
Drag Queens... How come you haven't watched it??
I didn’t know it existed until this video 😂
I was always kinda "Meh" on Raven but when I learned that she fed into the Narrative that she was "robbed" by Tyra, the meh turned to dislike real fast.
26:16 - when Aunty tells you sit down and shut up, you just do that lolololol XD
Feels…homophobic to be this early 🤔🤔🤔
Maddy is shaking
@@demicyrus4896why would she be shaking? 😭
@@swinbystander7642because she is an ally…. Duh 😂
Well done GG for your progress with the chanel and health. Thanks for the video and wish the best!.
Love her style, make up and overall drag persona and aesthetics
But I'm sure as a person she must be hell to deal with
Looking like she gonna reboot The Black and White Minstrel Show
In Season 2, there were villain queens like Tyra being self-centered and Raven being mean. Jujubee was very charismatic but never gave material to get to the top. Tatiana was the "hero", she showed talent more than a pretty face but without a doubt her drag persona needed to grow. For me the best one and the one that should have been the winner of the season was Pandora Boxx, she had looks that I liked, she had that charisma, personal story. we would have had camp queen
No
The lights on the razor remind you of the lights on the drag race main stage 😂
TRUE STAN right there!
They ALL owe their successes to the RPDR show.
Ravens skin color is her choice, end of. Painted w Raven I've watched, and it is entertaining. I think she is smart to ignore neg comments from fans/strangers. I feel she is just trying to do what most of are, living.