Very good your video my friend!! With lots of details!! I just buy a new Ant BMS 17-24s 340-850a Before this i have a JBD bms and balance very good the cells (in static balance perfect) I also have an active balancer JK 2a Bluetooth mode with app... Do you suggest to connect the active balancer with Ant bms (together) and switch off auto balance from Ant and let JK active balancer make it job...??🤔 Thank you!! 🙏 From Greece 🇬🇷 with love and Respect!!🤙
If you have a healthy battery, i recommend turning off all balancing AFTER Doing an initial top balance. In the ANT you just set balancing volume at maximum and cell differential on at 0.100v so that it will never balance automatically. The JK can be used to reset each monitoring period by allowing it to do top balance, then turning it off. During each monitoring period, you will just observe unitdiff (cell differential voltage) in the app, looking for 3 things: 1. Cell differential is slowing climbing at full charge at rest, either during idle period of after several charges. Then if its one specific cell group drifting away from the other cell groups, you know that cell group has some sort of self discharge. 2. Cell differential voltage climbs significantly as you go from 100% SOC to 20% SOC and keeps growing the closer you get to 0% SOC. This is a sign that the mah capacity of each cell group is not matched. So it’s important to know the baseline reading when the battery is new. And it depends on the chemistry (li-ion or LiFePO4). A good battery will keep a small differential voltage all the way down to 10% SOC, after that it’s normal for differential to grow quickly because its no longer on the flat part of the SOC curve. So it’s the trend you are monitoring. If new the max differential was 0.020v and later you see 0.050v at the same low SOC, it means a problem is developing. 3. Cell differential during acceleration, regen braking and charging. It’s normal to see some cell differential due to different voltage sags caused by slight differences in internal resistance and the battery construction as well as the location of the balance leads. Here too we look for a trend after testing the new battery. If the new battery caused a 0.020v differential during peak amps when new at a specific voltage, see which cell group it is and periodically test at the same voltage and same current to see if differential is getting worse. With time, even a healthy battery will drift off a few 0.001v at top balance, so it’s ok monthly or so, let the JK rebalance at full charge to reset the monitoring period. If the battery does develop a problem which causes a high cell differential at lower SOC, and you cant make it back to a charger, you can use the JK to begin filling the low cell group while you turtle mode to the nearest place you can charge. But as you can see, if you leave the JK active balancer on all the time it can mask any problem from you. So it should be off until an emergency at low SOC and used just to reset the top balance for a new monitoring period. Some new batteries are built carelessly and they use an active balancer to mask that poor battery construction. Especially on LiFePO4 cells. But I’m currently refurbishing my 20s6p 32650 LiFePO4 battery, using 100x used cells and 20x new cells. But even the new cells range from 6220-6440 mah, so you can’t just randomly arrange these cells. Soon ill upload a video showing how the cell differential does on this battery made from 4000-6400 mah cells can stay matched without active balancing. But it’s a lot of work, so most people will just add active balancing to mask the problem. In your case, since you have it already and it’s Bluetooth, it can sit there quietly and wait for when it’s needed. If you ever did get a problem where the ANT suddenly shut the discharge port due to an abnormally low cell group, you will have time to look at the problem, turn on the JK, locate the nearest place you can charge, and go in turtle mode until you get there. Even a healthy battery is going to have one brick hit LVP first. So the JK might give you up to 5% extra energy, which can get you a long way at 5 kph. If you had active balance on already, as soon as you hit LVP thats it, you are done. Lol. But in the controller app or the ANT app you can set LVP a little higher so that if you accidentally reach LVP you can open the app and set LVP low enough to turtle mode home.
0:00 Open iOS ANT app. This allows settings to be changed. 0:19 Every BMS sees every battery as 1P. This is a 13S5P battery but the ANT sees it as 13S1P and shows only the 13S 0:30 to ensure the ANT won’t balance the 13S, we will set the BalanceParameters out of reach 0:36 I have it set so it won’t balance unless a cell group goes over 4.3v or differential goes over 0.1v 0:45 I have Over Voltage Set at 4.350v because my Fardriver is 💩 in regards to regen cutoff settings, unlike Votol. 1:00 you can see all 13 series are balanced (because i did AutoBalance session earlier. Not magic. Lol 1:11 Because the new ANT app is so cluttered, i use old app for showing more. But the old app cant change settings. 1:24 I plug in the 2a charger and we can see it in the app at the top. 2:34 pack differential voltage creeping up slightly, but insignificant. 5:00 a basic BMS will never balance while discharging or charging at peak rate. It only balances after charging is in trickle as long as the port is still open. 5:30 the pack has 0.003 cell differential due to charging surge voltage. So we don’t want balancing to try to correct that. 6:00 default cell differential to turn on balance is 0.020v and turn off at 0.005v. Later we will see why. 12:32 i will unplug the charger and the surge voltage will subside as well as most of the cell differential voltage. 14:52 I click “Start Autobalance”, but autobalance is disabled by the cell differential off setting of 0.100v. Lol 15:24 I set cell differential stop to 0.000v. Lets try autobalance now. 15:52 now it’s working because this will run nonstop until it reaches the Celldiffoff setting 16:29 Since the ANT only does passive balance, it can only bleed the high cells down to the low cells. 17:22 its so slow balancing because I set balance current at 20 milliamps. 18:34 lets increase balance current to 180ma. 21:35 If this were a JK BMS, which as active balance, it would be done already. 21:45 With Active Balance, #11 and #12 would be sending their excess energy to #9. 21:55 Like Robin-hood, active balance steals from the rich and gives to the poor. (ESG score +100 points) 23:00 but all this is phantom balancing. If i just left balancing off and let all the hornets fly back to their own next it would have returned to 0.001v difference because the charge was very short. 24:24 and this is why I disabled balancing so i can see the real imbalance, which shows up over time. 25:06 the bricks will normally drift apart with time and cycles. 25:26 with time, the bricks with highest self discharge will become lower voltage than the ones with low self discharge. 25:48 with cycles, the bricks with the highest IR will turn more energy into heat, and become lower voltage than the others. 26:00 this is why professional battery builders know to buy matched cells from a reputable battery dealer. 26:38 if you tell them you are building a 20s10p battery , they will get you 200 cells from the same lot, graded and sorted with matching IR,capacity, self discharge, etc. 27:00 So once the professional battery builder makes the battery, he will normally assist in the initial top balance, unless it has active balance. 27:30 Once top balanced, these batteries will make you think the BMS was a waste of money because it will stay balanced for a few cycles. 27:50 but eventually, it will need top balance maintenance. 28:10 Every professional battery has a smart BMS. Why? Because the cells are too expensive to not spend an extra $50. 28:30 Some professional battery builders will change the BMS password so the buyer can’t change settings or erase the proof he’s an idiot. But the client can connect and see his battery health if he knows how to interpret the data. 29:50 This is why I would only build my own battery so i can set the BMS the way I want. If I made a battery that I was going to warranty, I would also change the password, place the temp sensors to shut off the battery at 65c and limit current to real world CDR. 30:30 Right now my T1 is up at the top of the battery case. Only T2 is cell temperature. 31:10 if the BMS is to be used by someone else and you can’t check it often, you need to set it for automatic balancing. 31:30 Automatic balancing depends on battery chemistry, the charger, the cell quality, the bus quality, the build quality. 32:00 I will show how to set up for LiFePO4 chemistry using AGM charger to extend the cell life and allow ample balance maintenance after I finish refurbishing it.
Very good your video my friend!! With lots of details!!
I just buy a new Ant BMS 17-24s 340-850a
Before this i have a JBD bms and balance very good the cells (in static balance perfect)
I also have an active balancer JK 2a Bluetooth mode with app...
Do you suggest to connect the active balancer with Ant bms (together) and switch off auto balance from Ant and let JK active balancer make it job...??🤔
Thank you!! 🙏
From Greece 🇬🇷 with love and Respect!!🤙
If you have a healthy battery, i recommend turning off all balancing AFTER Doing an initial top balance. In the ANT you just set balancing volume at maximum and cell differential on at 0.100v so that it will never balance automatically.
The JK can be used to reset each monitoring period by allowing it to do top balance, then turning it off.
During each monitoring period, you will just observe unitdiff (cell differential voltage) in the app, looking for 3 things:
1. Cell differential is slowing climbing at full charge at rest, either during idle period of after several charges. Then if its one specific cell group drifting away from the other cell groups, you know that cell group has some sort of self discharge.
2. Cell differential voltage climbs significantly as you go from 100% SOC to 20% SOC and keeps growing the closer you get to 0% SOC. This is a sign that the mah capacity of each cell group is not matched. So it’s important to know the baseline reading when the battery is new. And it depends on the chemistry (li-ion or LiFePO4). A good battery will keep a small differential voltage all the way down to 10% SOC, after that it’s normal for differential to grow quickly because its no longer on the flat part of the SOC curve. So it’s the trend you are monitoring. If new the max differential was 0.020v and later you see 0.050v at the same low SOC, it means a problem is developing.
3. Cell differential during acceleration, regen braking and charging. It’s normal to see some cell differential due to different voltage sags caused by slight differences in internal resistance and the battery construction as well as the location of the balance leads. Here too we look for a trend after testing the new battery. If the new battery caused a 0.020v differential during peak amps when new at a specific voltage, see which cell group it is and periodically test at the same voltage and same current to see if differential is getting worse.
With time, even a healthy battery will drift off a few 0.001v at top balance, so it’s ok monthly or so, let the JK rebalance at full charge to reset the monitoring period.
If the battery does develop a problem which causes a high cell differential at lower SOC, and you cant make it back to a charger, you can use the JK to begin filling the low cell group while you turtle mode to the nearest place you can charge.
But as you can see, if you leave the JK active balancer on all the time it can mask any problem from you. So it should be off until an emergency at low SOC and used just to reset the top balance for a new monitoring period.
Some new batteries are built carelessly and they use an active balancer to mask that poor battery construction. Especially on LiFePO4 cells. But I’m currently refurbishing my 20s6p 32650 LiFePO4 battery, using 100x used cells and 20x new cells. But even the new cells range from 6220-6440 mah, so you can’t just randomly arrange these cells.
Soon ill upload a video showing how the cell differential does on this battery made from 4000-6400 mah cells can stay matched without active balancing. But it’s a lot of work, so most people will just add active balancing to mask the problem.
In your case, since you have it already and it’s Bluetooth, it can sit there quietly and wait for when it’s needed. If you ever did get a problem where the ANT suddenly shut the discharge port due to an abnormally low cell group, you will have time to look at the problem, turn on the JK, locate the nearest place you can charge, and go in turtle mode until you get there.
Even a healthy battery is going to have one brick hit LVP first. So the JK might give you up to 5% extra energy, which can get you a long way at 5 kph. If you had active balance on already, as soon as you hit LVP thats it, you are done. Lol.
But in the controller app or the ANT app you can set LVP a little higher so that if you accidentally reach LVP you can open the app and set LVP low enough to turtle mode home.
0:00 Open iOS ANT app. This allows settings to be changed.
0:19 Every BMS sees every battery as 1P. This is a 13S5P battery but the ANT sees it as 13S1P and shows only the 13S
0:30 to ensure the ANT won’t balance the 13S, we will set the BalanceParameters out of reach
0:36 I have it set so it won’t balance unless a cell group goes over 4.3v or differential goes over 0.1v
0:45 I have Over Voltage Set at 4.350v because my Fardriver is 💩 in regards to regen cutoff settings, unlike Votol.
1:00 you can see all 13 series are balanced (because i did AutoBalance session earlier. Not magic. Lol
1:11 Because the new ANT app is so cluttered, i use old app for showing more. But the old app cant change settings.
1:24 I plug in the 2a charger and we can see it in the app at the top.
2:34 pack differential voltage creeping up slightly, but insignificant.
5:00 a basic BMS will never balance while discharging or charging at peak rate. It only balances after charging is in trickle as long as the port is still open.
5:30 the pack has 0.003 cell differential due to charging surge voltage. So we don’t want balancing to try to correct that.
6:00 default cell differential to turn on balance is 0.020v and turn off at 0.005v. Later we will see why.
12:32 i will unplug the charger and the surge voltage will subside as well as most of the cell differential voltage.
14:52 I click “Start Autobalance”, but autobalance is disabled by the cell differential off setting of 0.100v. Lol
15:24 I set cell differential stop to 0.000v. Lets try autobalance now.
15:52 now it’s working because this will run nonstop until it reaches the Celldiffoff setting
16:29 Since the ANT only does passive balance, it can only bleed the high cells down to the low cells.
17:22 its so slow balancing because I set balance current at 20 milliamps.
18:34 lets increase balance current to 180ma.
21:35 If this were a JK BMS, which as active balance, it would be done already.
21:45 With Active Balance, #11 and #12 would be sending their excess energy to #9.
21:55 Like Robin-hood, active balance steals from the rich and gives to the poor. (ESG score +100 points)
23:00 but all this is phantom balancing. If i just left balancing off and let all the hornets fly back to their own next it would have returned to 0.001v difference because the charge was very short.
24:24 and this is why I disabled balancing so i can see the real imbalance, which shows up over time.
25:06 the bricks will normally drift apart with time and cycles.
25:26 with time, the bricks with highest self discharge will become lower voltage than the ones with low self discharge.
25:48 with cycles, the bricks with the highest IR will turn more energy into heat, and become lower voltage than the others.
26:00 this is why professional battery builders know to buy matched cells from a reputable battery dealer.
26:38 if you tell them you are building a 20s10p battery , they will get you 200 cells from the same lot, graded and sorted with matching IR,capacity, self discharge, etc.
27:00 So once the professional battery builder makes the battery, he will normally assist in the initial top balance, unless it has active balance.
27:30 Once top balanced, these batteries will make you think the BMS was a waste of money because it will stay balanced for a few cycles.
27:50 but eventually, it will need top balance maintenance.
28:10 Every professional battery has a smart BMS. Why? Because the cells are too expensive to not spend an extra $50.
28:30 Some professional battery builders will change the BMS password so the buyer can’t change settings or erase the proof he’s an idiot. But the client can connect and see his battery health if he knows how to interpret the data.
29:50 This is why I would only build my own battery so i can set the BMS the way I want. If I made a battery that I was going to warranty, I would also change the password, place the temp sensors to shut off the battery at 65c and limit current to real world CDR.
30:30 Right now my T1 is up at the top of the battery case. Only T2 is cell temperature.
31:10 if the BMS is to be used by someone else and you can’t check it often, you need to set it for automatic balancing.
31:30 Automatic balancing depends on battery chemistry, the charger, the cell quality, the bus quality, the build quality.
32:00 I will show how to set up for LiFePO4 chemistry using AGM charger to extend the cell life and allow ample balance maintenance after I finish refurbishing it.