I am 100% convinced that if Turn 10 allowed for Motorsport 4 to be played through backwards compatibility, it would have so many more players than their current Motorsport
@@zerotofifty then it should be listed again. they can’t sell a product without a license. and also that was in tandem with the 10th anniversary for the game. they didn’t add anything but music which is easier to get than a license from a manufacturer. FM4 has many other licenses that aren’t in FH1 too. Tracks need licensing too. horizon has the benefit of not needing as many. and a shorter car list. it’s 1/4 that of FH4
The de-evolution of damage models in modern racing games is dumb, you'd figure with the technical power in the newer consoles, the damage model would be more sophisticated instead of just limited to scratches and little dings.
Another thing about FM1 damage is that when you hit a wall, you'd actually leave behind paint marks that were the same color as your car. Mind blowing for 2005.
I recently played Forza Motorsport 4 after many years of not playing it and it's truly amazing. Not only it's graphically stunning, the handling/controls are spot on, has great variety of tracks and elegant presentation, but if you get the Game of the Year Edition I believe it's the Forza with most amount of cars in the series. I truly enjoyed Forza Motorsport 7 as well and I'm currently replaying the career mode for Forza Motorsport 6 to complete all the races and it's also a lot of fun. One thing to note about Forza Motorsport 2023 (aka Forza Motorsport 8) is that the game requires an internet connection at all times, including to play the single player career mode so that alone makes it my least favorite game of the franchise by a long shot.
@@apophisstr6719 I bought Forza Motorsport 3: Ultimate Collection (has all the DLC included on disc) a few years ago but haven't played it yet but I'm pretty sure I will like it more than whatever we got after Forza Motorsport 4.
Your comment is basically exactly my opinion 😂 4 is amazing and I really like 6 and 7 as well (I think I probably actually have the most hours in 6). I’m hoping we get some of the magic back for the 9th entry
It's always funny when they fail even in that graphical fidelity department. Assassin's Creed Unity still looks better than anything Ubisoft release after it.
But the sad truth is that many players are blinded by the graphics. Many players think that good graphics = a good game. A lot of gamers would choose a bad game with good graphics over a good game with less good graphics. That's why many developers nowadays prioritise graphics over gameplay. Because a beautiful game sells more copies. Gamers are just stupid...
17:35 i think is whats wrong with all big names in the racing genre. It USED to be a moderate-sized team of people who all loved cars and wanted to make a cool car game. These days, its just developers looking to pay the bills getting contracted to make a racing game. Nothing is technically "wrong" about it, they are all competent games but have ZERO soul.
Yup it definitely feels soulless. It’s a shame because I’m sure there are lots of people at turn 10 that are really passionate but it doesn’t come across in the game
Ahh yes the latest Gran Turismo and Forza games having single player campaigns many times inferior to entries from 20 years ago. There has never been a better time to be a gamer.
@@Phenom98 I play FM wayyy more than FH you dike, only reinstalled it recently after a year or two. If I wanna drive production cars for a change FM is lacking hard
I found how to change the car in the main menu by total accident after staring at that cadillac since release. Felt like something it should just ~do~ automatically.
I think you could basically apply this videos general consensus across the years of games and apply it to any other franchise/series/developers content. That period of 2008-2012 or so was just unbeatable for gaming content
FM7 was always the odd one out to me. The menus were rather confusing and I hated the sub class homologation thing where the PP limits of events were far too strict for what upgrades you could apply. They may as well have made the car restrictions as stock only. I preferred FM6 in that respect where I could just upgrade my ‘x’ class car in the ‘y’ car category. Also the FM6 soundtrack, my lord, that is amazing. I boot up FM6:Apex on PC just to listen to it sometimes and have the home menu as a dynamic wallpaper. Though, I do give FM2 nostalgia points.
Yeah I agree, I think 7 looks amazing but I think my heart is with 6 in that fight. And yeah I think I mentioned in my first Forza 2023 review that the music in 6 is really good, when you’re at the top of mount panaroma with the soundtrack pumping it doesn’t get much better
The first 4 games all have much more progression with more limited resource earnings and less free cars. You had a bunch of events you ended up modifying your cars to run in, so you really got attached to certain cars. The last 4 games removed that for a bunch of random events where you're always running in the same homologation requirements (Many of which are ludicrous, like FM7 requiring 20's/30's cars to be A class instead of D class.) FM7 is just a series of random 5 race groups which are too stringent on car choice so you just pick whatever random car you got for free that fits the bill. It's actually even worse because when you buy a car it's already upgraded to homologation spec so you never drive the cars stock. 23 does the same thing, except now they expect you to upgrade your car over the course of ~30-60 minutes and they pretend like that's any different or makes you attached to the car. To this day, I still remember starting with an Audi TT and later migrating to an MR2 I upgraded over time into race cars to progress through forza 1's career.
Yeah I know some people like the open ended career stuff of the more recent games, but I definitely prefer the old progression system from the first 4, I think the very first game has much better progression than the 2023 entry
Thanks! I did a quick little review of 7 you can check out 😊 I’m planning on doing the whole series at some point in the not too distant future, stay tuned 👍 thanks for the watch 😊
When game developers have to tell you how good their product is rather than their product speaking for itself............ Forza 4 was the high point for me and I still play on my 360 with a modern sim rig. Why can't Turn 10 see that they had the recipe years ago and all they need to do is expand on it with modern tech.
Mainly it has to do with people in charge and leads controlling the game. For example mike brown from horizon after he took over for a spell many of the horizon games took a steep decline in quality especially updates because mike brown doesn't give a single fuck about cars or racing. He only cares about is open world games which on paper sure that sounds good but in practice. Sorry for all caps. HOLY FUCKING SHIT I CANT SEE SHIT ON THE MAP THERE'S WAY TOO MANY FUCKING ICONS! Yes there is a filter setting but that doesn't mean we cant ignore a mess that they created. First three horizons had done their icons and maps perfectly. Then comes handling which started to feel much the same as last game with little subtle changes and of course car models which now after so many years of gt players making fun of them alongside forza players. So overall. If lead heart isn't in right direction or they only care about the money and praise for dumb decisions then thats why many games failed because leadership and executive meddling along with making games only shareholders give a shit about not giving shit about us is why this game failed.
@@evandaymon8303 True, ever since he left horizon 5 started to have good updates and the game is much better now. Hopefully Motorsport gets this treatment soon.
Your main complaint about 2023 Forza's handling feeling too safe and finding it hard to spin out definitely goes out the window when you plug in a wheel. Easily the best feeling Forza using a wheel.
I’ll throw in some points for 6 as well 🙌 I definitely came away from replaying the series thinking I want to play 4 for the career progression and 7 just to look at it
To be honest, I haven't really liked a Forza career since the XBOne era, they all kinda feel more like checklists than actual careers, especially 5 and 6 where it's literally "do a series of races in this style of car and never touch it again", I gave up on the series to I never played 7 and sure as hell skipped 2023 because of that. I liked being able to play around with your garage and seeing what cars you could sneak into what events and that kind of stuff, and I think the events themselves had better car variety.
Yeah the older games definitely had better car variety, I think 4 for me has the best event variety and mix of different cars racing together. Thanks for the watch 😊
I mean since i moslty skipped 5, i never really interacted with the scummy booster system, so i thought of 7's boosters more like challenges than a leftover scummy move. It just felt like a way to be like "do good at the thing, get a thing"
The original is one of the greatest racing games ever, and was also my first. Glad to see it getting some love. What elevates it so high isn't even just the progression imo. It's the custom Drivatar lobbies you could make, letting you race against your OWN TUNES with the AI set to max difficulty and try to beat them. I LOVED filling the entire grid with custom cars in my garage and seeing once and for all, which ones were the most powerful. It was the single greatest feature in any Forza title and it's easy to miss.
After watching a couple of your more recent videos and then this one I thought I'd make a request. I would love it if you explored some of the good games of recent history, with maybe a focus on smaller devs as they seem to be the only ones that aren't spiritual devoid at this point. As part of this request I would love it if you could give Balatro a little explore. It's my game of the year so far and I would really enjoy your perspective on it! Anyway, thanks for the content 👍
Give me FM '23 physics and handling/driving feel, with FH5 graphics and color palette.....and just smush them into FM4. Can guarantee would sell by the truck load.
I really loved the career mode in 7.... honestly it is the only one I finished. The new Forza game has so much potential. The career mode needs to have more content for sure but I do like that they are all actually races and not silly stuff like bowling. I also like the series that come and go but we need more of them. But the biggest thing missing from the new Forza is stats! What the hell! I want to know how many trophies I won and with what cars and what I have done on each track etc. to me this diminishes the career mode more than anything!
I think the lack of stats is indicative of a lack of care generally put into the single player, it definitely feels half baked. I can do without the bowling for sure 😂 would still be nice to have some more variety in there like multi class races or drifting or just some more variety to the locations would help a lot. Thanks for the watch 😊
If you use controller, they screwed the steering sensitivity up royally. Unless you tune the cars suspension to be incredibly oversteery, you actually cant spin out, the game limits how much steering a controller will allow at speeds over 50mph. Even on "simulation steering" you cant turn the wheel more than 10° on controller. That killed fm8 for me, on top of all the missing content.
I think I’m speaking for 90% of the people who play the game when I say this. I only care about the online multiplayer, my 3 real complaints about the game are that the skill rating system has a rating cap unlike a game like iRacing, there are really only 2 consistent racing series to choose between , and short length races.
Yeah I don’t really have any issues with the multi, I think I’m a bit weird in that I’ve always played heaps of single player in these games, and the 2023 single player is 💩 Glad people are enjoying the multi though, hopefully we get the best of both worlds next time out
Imo it’s the best online racing game for controller, I don’t care about wheel, it’s even better than GT7 in this regard, no one agrees though, prob because most people have PS5, and most people only care about graphics and stuff, if you get past this stuff you realise the physics allow for the best wheel to wheel racing of any game I can think of
for someone who plays it because you like games, not cos ur a sim dude, it's a great insight. if you want sims like myself I have other games but these are the most realistic games I can play on controller to relax, it's great, and i love these relaxed comparisons because it's exactly what I'm looking for!! and you agree with most of my points. loved the video amazing humour too lol
Thanks! I don’t see much point in pretending to be an expert because I’m not 😂 I tend to approach all games (not just driving) from a perspective of is this fun and engaging and does it look good 🤷 glad you are enjoying 😊
dear wimp! spot-on (as always), but to be honest: you brought up the very moment forza lost it for me: these @~# cards to „boost your cars and breaks and stuff“. i really was on of the biggest forza fanboys (as i am now a wimp-fanboy, which i failed to mention in my previous comment - please accept my apologies!), but forza 6 was the nail in the coffin for the series. 5 was - at least for me - somewhat of a surprisingly bad game, but after that i went over it to play Gran Turismo on the PS. i gave forza a shot back in 2023, but come on … they used to be so much better!
You are correct my friend, I’m guessing the cards went in there to give themselves an option to monetise them in the future once we’d all forgot about the micro transactions in 5. The older ones are certainly superior in my opinion
Yeah it’s a pretty weird addition, I’m guessing they were trying to add depth but it makes it come across less like a sim when you can artificially alter the cars performance
I played fm3 so many times, and my god, I had a blast with that game, specially playing on split screen with my friends. I only played 3, 5, 7 and 2023, and for me, it is still the best one from those, but I think it is nostalgia too, because 7 was fantastic!
Yeah I really like 7 a lot, I think 3 is great, you don’t need to worry about nostalgia on that one - going back to it was like ‘oh yup this still rules’
10:36 My theory is that car companies let devs do better damage models because part of them was like eh nobody is gonna see it anyway. now that video games are a multi billionaire dollar business annually, too many eyes to have see your product look beat up
Which is very stupid like why would a serious car buyer care about a car in a racing game looking beat up use the game to buy the car irl? Like no one in their right mind is going to give a damn about making the product look good and not have much damage.
@@evandaymon8303 it’s just not a good look. like in midnight club, before licensed cars you could hit pedestrians. if they can avoid making their product look bad by any means they will now
I disagree, codenasters games still have some aggressive damage models. I would put to manufactures not wanting their road cars to get negative associations because the in-game car has damage issues. It's hard enough to get manufactures to release their damage reports, let alone let a game simulate it. Whereas the built for racing counterparts are expected to get torn up as they do on real race tracks. There's plenty of wrecked footage for the devs to reference. Making a complex damage model isn't a big focus of many racing games (wreckfest and BeamNG not withstanding) as most people don't think much of it and modelling damage for 300+ cars while also making it look real isn't a great return on investment. Sorry for the yammering.
@@ndh06 no dude fuck yeah with the yammering. i guess in never considered devs not bothering creating said crash models. great point with codemasters game, i haven’t touched many of their games since the grid reboot. in real life cars do have different damage ratings and are nearly unique to every single one.
Unfortunately, this is the case throughout the entire games industry. I can't stand this trend. Almost every game has to have online multiplayer these days. And the single player only gets implemented very half-heartedly. If there is one at all...
Loved the video. The way the first xbox 360 Forza horizon looks back compatible on xbox series x i would have loved Forza motorsport on original Xbox to have come back compatible and Forza Motorsport 4. My favourite racers on xbox but i do now and then jump to 6 and 7 they do look gorgeous i must say.
The new forza was so disappointing that I finally decided to buy a PS5 and play Gran Turismo. I've fallen in love with GT7 and now want to get a ps3 so I can play GT5 and GT6.
I also think Forza 6 is underrated! The reviews aren't great and people dont seem to look back on it fondly, but as somebody who's only just getting into this stuff, having played Horizons 2-4, Project Cars 2, and FM 5 and 6, Forza 6 is where im spending most of my time.
Yup 6 is my underdog entry, it really got things back on track after 5, the career has really good variety (love the moments in Motorsport stuff). I think of all them I probably have the most time spent in 6. Still looks good too, especially the wet weather
i just want to say for the video, the audio is all over the place, the speech is not clear its very bassy, but if i up the volume to hear the music and cuts become too loud.
In terms of driving, FM 2023 is by far the best of the series if you know how to set up a wheel (the baseline settings are AWFUL). The worst part about FM 2023 and FM7 is they are always online. Who knows how long these servers are going to be up. The last game you can get and play without online servers is FM6 and I would prefer this game to FM4, and I played four years on FM4.
Yup agree re 5, it’s basically just a copy paste of 4 but with micro transactions and an uglier map. I think 6 and 7 kind of got it back on track but the new one was super disappointing
I put the game down at start of may.. Taking a break after putting 150 hours in it. The game does suck but its fun with friends in private lobby that's only reason why I stuck with the game.
personally the best for me is 4 i have fond memories of 3 never really played 1 or 2. if 8 kept the old weather system it would have been so much better. i feel like wet weather in the new one is just damp track. i liked on 6 and 7 if it was wet you had to change your line in some corners and tracks. it wass actually how it wuold be. look at most if not all race tracks when its wet puddles do form alot of the time on the racing line. another thing. i miss the silly eco cars like the honda fit type and the weird ones like vans and stuff. along with the playground online games, like tag infection and stuff like that. moder games it just feels like they went " oh the kids love super cars put more super cars in the game, get rid of the cars that no one cares about to make more space, people want a racing game put 0 effort into fun modes no one will notice". i do miss the old damage modles of the old older games where mirrors bumpers wings could all fall off. just crinkling and scuffing the pannel is nothing its pointless hell in real racing cars hit eachother in corners and dont cause the damage forza shows. like rubbins racing but hold up all the paints now gon and it looks like a discraded peice of paper rolled out
Yup 4 is my favourite as well, just wish it had wet weather in there. Totally agree about wet tracks in fm2023, massive step back from how dynamic it was in 6 and 7. And yeah the damage modelling just keeps getting worse and worse, not sure if it’s a licensing thing or just a lack of interest from the devs. Thanks for the watch 😊
i would like to get my hands on motorsport 4 once, i only got to play 5 to 7 so far and my favorite there was 7. i got 3 but no xbox 360 to play it soooo... lets see when that will happen
I'm actually getting sick of games being released incomplete. Waiting a year for bug fixes. And then finally after the 1st year you get real content updates. They stripped basically all of the Forza identity in FM8. And the driver is barely improved from FM7. If they made it a realistic sim racer then the game would atleast appeal to some people. But there is no reason to play this over Horizon. Or even over FM7. It has no audience
I think live service has been a blessing and a curse, games receiving regular updates is cool, giving games an excuse to release in poor condition to get fixed later is not
You also missed where fm7 had 30+ multiplayer game modes and fm 2023 is the same restricted circuit racing , not even open track day . Even the Xbox showcase 2022 showed off drift and drag false advertising it
Yeah true, I didn’t want to do a multiplayer comparison because it’s hard to play the older ones online these days, but I’ve definitely seen a lot of people unhappy with 2023’s. I thought it was ok, though I’m not much of a multiplayer expert
Fm2023, a racing game that doesnt even have a overall race timer so you dont know how ling youve played in a session until the end. Dont think you can ever see it at all in test drive either, which is all i actually do as i just want to mess around and have fun by myself
FM2023 is really the bottom of the pit in terms of single player, and it really shows how they only 'focus' on multiplayer (gt7 too) BUT, the multiplayer of this game is actually pretty solid, especially league racing! (and hopefully getting better with this next update) they have some cool playlists with cool car classes that rotate weekly, open class is still here... I think if they did the bare minimum of a forza career mode, (maybe just copying the same structure of 7) the game would be accepted way better, even with the other problems it has
Totally agree, I think the multiplayer is solid and there seem to be a lot of people enjoying it which is great 👍 hopefully the next time out we get a good single player experience as well 🤷 thanks for the watch 😊
yes this is really annoying what almost in any racing sim today, developers trying to make mostly online oriented _specially make single carrier mod more bad and boring then before_ 😕👎
I can't speak for any Forza games before 6 as I never played them cause I'm a PC nerd and refused to pay £500 to downgrade just to play one racing game. For me though FM6 Apex (the PC tech demo) was by far the best looking, FM7 came close but the weird fog that appeared green at times just ruined it. Apex's wet weather was outstanding plus the fact it looked so damned good and would run on a potato PC at ridiculous fps rates, 80-160fps on my old AMD 9590 and R9 290X, whilst the current s**tshow can barely manage 50-116fps on my current 5800X3D and 7900XTX and looks permanently blurred on my 32:9 screen. FM looks like a smeared, blurry mess to me, what's the point of raytracing a game that looks so goddamned shite you just end up with a marked uncanny valley situation... On the flipside AMS2 runs at 120 (back of the grid) to 320fps (clear track) and doesn't look like it's smeared my screen with vaseline (just like you mentioned in FM5 iirc). "Just use 200% scaling" the rabid shill fanboys scream... "Yeah right and get half the fps rate as a result and STILL have blurred visuals regardless? Get tae f**k!" Chris Esaki claimed in the Forza monthlies before launch "Full ultrawide and superultrawide support at launch" alongside "Forza Motorsport is designed to run on PC's from low end to high end systems..." On top of this the "Self trained AI that's done thousands of laps to train itself on every track" (Chris again in the Forza monthlies) is STILL woefully bad in FM, it's improved slightly, though I think they just switched back to the cheating FM7 AI... The handling is abysmal, checking one of my fav cars the BMW M8 GTE at it's stock settings the projected laptimes at Spa is 2:21.408 on soft tyres with 25% full tank. The actual fastest race laptime set in the 2019 6 hours of Spa in this exact car was a 2:14.208! The lap record in this class of car is 2:11.219 by Kevin Estre. OK so upgrade the car in FM to 695HP from it's stock 551HP and the best time indicated is 2:16.753, over 2.5 seconds of real world laptimes and 4.5 seconds off the outright lap record. Best I could manage in FM was 2:18.110 and went from 18th to 1st by lap 2 at the end of the Kemmel straight. I lapped the last placed AI on lap 5, fastest AI total time was 12:02.185 even with the AI set to max... ua-cam.com/video/3NlpCnDgIMk/v-deo.htmlsi=nZyu7IuRkTL3F4M4 Same race in AMS2, 24th on the grid to 1st took me until lap 4 along the Kemmel straight. the last placed AI was within 30 seconds of my overall time with a total time of 1:54.866, in other words the entire field of AMS2 AI would be 7.3 seconds ahead of the entire field in FM. Fastest lap for me was 2:13.858 in this race, plus I just set a time trial time of 2:11.852 just last night 0.633 of Kevin Estre's lap record. ua-cam.com/video/aAkI8jhMgos/v-deo.htmlsi=drZ21ZHn-iT7eNm6 Oh and the AI in AMS2 was set to 100 skill and max aggression, they go upto 120 skill which is lap record territory... Which game looks better to you? Calling FM a simulator is disingenuous it's not even simcade anymore, it's pure arcade at best...
Just went back and play fm2 with project plus forza mod really good, its crazy how much better Xbox 360 era forza motorsport was. Wtf happened the quality just dropped.
I think they just started running out of steam, focus definitely shifted to online. The horizon games probably gave them a bit of an identity crisis as well
Great video as per usual! As a poorly millennial playstation child, if there were a gun in my mouth that could be removed if i play a single forza race, I'd tell you to pull the trigger.
Stopped watching the minute you said FM2023 has the best multiplayer... There is no stat tracking, no racing at the Nurburgring, only a handful of different categories to race in, and no ranked/divisional modes. It's utterly inconsequential.
I may have misspoken- I said I wasn’t going to compare the multiplayer because it’s difficult to play the older titles online so let’s just give a win to 2023 by default because it’s not going to win any other categories 😂 definitely have seen a lot people unhappy with the multi
No more chicane tyre walls, no more street looking cars on track mixed grid, the best Forza M for wheel FFB plus all weather n time on all tracks were my biggest hopes for this one. Yes it's been a sh!t show with them talking BS pre launch but it's getting better every month and being a frustrated sim racer unable to get a decent PC I've no choice but to grin bare n enjoy but having said that... We need people to keep them making it better 👍
But the sad truth is that many players are blinded by the graphics. Many players think that good graphics = a good game. A lot of gamers would choose a bad game with good graphics over a good game with less good graphics. That's why many developers nowadays prioritise graphics over gameplay. Because a beautiful game sells more copies. Gamers are just stupid...
FM6 and FM7 were genuinely worth the purchase. 6 had better car sounds but 7's physics were god tier. Shame the Xbox One got off to such a rough start, but those two easily made up for it.
Yeah 5 was a bit rough, 6 got them back on track and I think 7 builds on that foundation really nicely. 7 gets pipped at the post by 4 for me, but only just
I don't see this game as THE next motorsport game I see it like what GT did with GT sport and put the game is kinda a gateway to THE next actually motorsport maybe I'm just coping but I really hope the next game is an actual rival to GT
Thankfully FM4 ( and Horizon1) run great on Xenia emulator and after all these years of being a PC guy I can finally play these gems. So FM4 still feels, looks and plays great. FM7 looks better but has lost so much soul over the years. And who needs wet weather racing that much?, I cant see sh*t :) And FM8 is a lost cause and I fear that the Motorsport series is dead and the next Horizon 6 is under pressure to deliver big.
Oh that’s good to know 😊 I agree about 7, there’s something slightly soulless about it that keeps it from the top of my list. It’ll be really interesting to see where they go from here, for both fm9 and fh6. The horizon formula needs a bit of a shake up. Thanks for the watch 😊
Forza 4 has a few flaws in the carrer that are to intricate to write here so I just want to say: it's not perfect. Also the menus are better because dark mode.
FM4 has a really strange career. None of the races have anything to do with one another and the two leg "championship" races have two legs that are unconnected and nothing you do in the first leg seemed to matter in the second.
@@myfunbox355 Very true. There are small incentives for using certain car classes or cars, but it's not enough to make you actually want to use them. You can use the same car for the entire "career" if you want, but literally nothing telling you how the season is progressing between races other than the Top Gear guy telling you what the next track is. The FM4 career sucks.
It definitely looks good for sure, they were out to impress on the new console. I found the lighting to be a little too over the top for me personally, but I can’t disagree that it looks awesome. I actually think 5 has the best replays in the series, really cool camera angles that aren’t in the other games
It is the worst game in the franchise. The online interface was at its peak on forza motorsport 4. You could go into public rooms, instead of being lumped into a race with Randoms. Better tracks. Hell FM8 doesn't even have a damn test track/open space anymore
I don’t remember the multi from 4 all that well but I suspect you are correct - definitely agree regarding the tracks, the 2023 game desperately needs more location variety
Personally, I agree with almost everything. Single player is terrible. Graphics are hit and miss. UI is so jarring and annoying. I do believe it was “built from the ground up” but only in terms of physics. Everything about this game feels a bit odd. Except… the actual online racing is hands down incredible. It wasn’t at first, but it’s getting there. The physics really are amazing and they’ve hit a perfect balance between realism and playability for controller. Personally im addicted to multiplayer in this game and I’m sensing a very competitive community developing. I think this alone makes this not only the best forza, but the best “sim-cade” racing game out there, including GT7. Most people disagree, but then I don’t think they’re as competitive as I am with online racing tbh. I think this game is perfect for guys like me. I have a powerful gaming pc with a sim rig, I have Xbox and I have ps5. But for myself, I have a life and I’m sure my gf would break up with me if I spend any more time on my sim rig, and I agree tbh. It is a bit sad a fully grown man would sit in his bedroom on a sim rig lmao. For me, I’m a casual sit in my pants on a sofa guy when my girlfriend isn’t in and I’m not working, and forza is PERFECT. It’s real enough I can enjoy the realism of the physics and bump cars with players and stuff, but accessible enough I can do it all on controller. This is super important to me. Yes, I could play gt7, and I have played it a lot and it’s a very very good game, better than forza in most ways, but… there’s something about its physics that don’t allow the same kind of racing forza does. GT7 is much more rigid and it feels like if you touch another player or the grass, or you hit the throttle too hard, you go flying! It doesn’t feel real in this sense. Cars feel like they’re glued to the track, until they’re not.. Forza feels much closer to irl imo, it allows players to bang doors and be more expressive with their driving. I know this allows for cheats, but the new penalty system works very well and for the most part cheats have started to behave. But it’s a great middle ground with good close wheel banging racing and fair precise sportsman ship. Forza absolutely nailed this and it completely trumps all its flaws and games like GT7 just from this alone! In my opinion.
I also recognise this game isnt done. They’ve not just made a new game, they’ve made a new framework. I expect this game to expand and evolve over time, instead of just realising a new game. I suspect forza is eventually going to become the most popular sim cade, but the only way they can do it is by releasing on ps5. If they did this, GT7 would lose a huge chunk of its player base. I personally have high hopes, I see the vision and I believe this game is set to become the best sim cade of all time, eventually, fingers crossed lol
@@justamanchimpfm would not sell well even if it was on ps5. Gt has always dominated fm in terms of sales. Fm does poorly simple because its just bad simple as that. Gt7 would not lose much to fm even if it was on ps5. The thing is people are already selling their Xbox and buy ps5 to play gt7 for dissapointing fm 23 has been. Fm will never be more popular than gt regardless of the platform its on. The thing is forza horizon 5 is popular and its on the same platforms as forza motorsport 23 Fm will never get close to be as popular as gt. By even looks of things fm 23 is doing even worse than previous titles. They lied making false claims. Had longest work time 6 years campared to 2 years for the others. And still manages to become the worst fm ever made. You should not have to wait for the game to come around when it already took 6 years to come out. Turn 10 drop the ball so hard With fm and if they ever hope to turn it around they need to hurry because they cant afford to not, very small amount of people play it now. And many have switch to gt7 instead. Not supricing really when pd puts in so much more detail into the car models than fm, and when you have models that looks so bad like Silvia s15 and skyline r32 in Forza there is not much hope left for that franshise.
@@andreasmoller9798 nope, if it were on ps5 it would start dipping into the sales because despite the games problems the online racing is still better, this is coming from a guy who spent years playing gt sport and gt7, the physics make the racing better than gt7. You don’t see it now, people probably won’t see it for quite a while but eventually people will see it, especially if it comes over to ps5. Their biggest mistake is making it Xbox exclusive.
@@justamanchimpthat argument dosen’t hold well. Last time i checked fm dosen’t have anything even close that can compete With gt world series in terms of online racing. And last time i checked forza has never made any real world drivers like gt has. Forza has always been a Microsoft exclusive and gt a playstation exclusive. Fm will never be as popular as gt7 not even if it was on ps5. Forza motorsport and forza horizon 5 is both on pc Xbox series x and s gt7 is on ps4 and ps5. Forza horizon 5 has bigger audiance than both. But gt7 still has much bigger community than fm to and that would not change regardless of platforms. Gt has always appeal to more people than fm. And if you play both you quickly will understand why regardless of witch one you prefer. I take gt7 any day of the week over fm. If i play forza i rather play horizon 5 than the new fm.
@@andreasmoller9798 no that’s where you’re wrong, PlayStation has a far bigger customer base than Xbox, like not even close, of course gt7 will have a bigger community, that’s why I’m saying if forza came to ps it would grow much faster than it is, purely because physics alone it’s an amazing racing game and eventually people will realise that, assuming they fix the problems, which they are, just not quick enough that’s the only problem But like I say, as a guy who has both and played gt7 for years, whilst I think gt7 has more features and specific little nice things, I don’t care, because forza is the superior racing engine and strikes the perfect balance between real driving mechanics and accessibility for controller. I’m not saying it’s miles better than gt7, but it is better though, in time people will see
I prefer gt7 as well, definitely in terms of the single player, although the economy in gt is pretty messed up - aside from that though I think it does pretty much everything better than fm2023. Hopefully next time out they’re both great
Polite observation: when I see someone talk about driving simulators and have their IDEAL LINE or BRAKING POINT on in the videos,.... that kind of destroys most points and opinion expressed about handling/physics. It also makes me suspect that the person has TC and ABS and stability control on for cars that have no such devices in real life. I think a bunch of people might share this sentiment. Play how you want/need, no judgement, but when I see racing line I am like ... meh ... you don't review a sim with racing lines. It's a bit like running a tactical shooter channel that features mostly fortnite. Just my 2c ....
I guess that’s why I said I’m not an expert at the start of the video and said if you want a more technical analysis I ain’t the guy😂 I definitely approach these from a more casual standpoint, thanks for the watch anyway 🙌
True, I think 4 has the most varied car list in the series. If you combined 7s visuals and wet weather with 4s cars and variety and that’s pretty much my dream driving game right there
The game that's really boring is GT7 and Forza Motorsport is definitely more entertaining with better graphics. If you really want to gain subscribers why don't you tell people your a Sony pony that is hurting from Forzas greatness.
Mate, your videos are brilliant and this is one that is close to my Foooorza heart! Thank you for this epic content. Where abouts in Aus are you located?
The economy FM 2023 is kind of a big one for me. I own all of Forza games because of how stingy GT was. Forza was never all that bad, especially with VIP. This one though, even with VIP is awful. Tack on the car leveling, even with the changes, is ridiculous. Now compound all of that with the bugs, the weird flat lighting, not being able to actually use an actual race car in career mode (last I tried to play), AND the stupid grindy nature even with VIP, nah. Thanks to turn 10 for taking my money, whilst giving us the worst game they have ever made for the most money and ruining (so far) one of my favorite gaming experiences. From the ground up.
Sounds like your feelings on the new game are exactly the same as mine 😂 such a disappointment, especially with all the pre release hype. And yeah the more I’ve played of gt7 the more the economy seems insane
I am 100% convinced that if Turn 10 allowed for Motorsport 4 to be played through backwards compatibility, it would have so many more players than their current Motorsport
which is why they don't.
@@bryanedds8922licensing is why they don’t
@@eddieru i hate Licensing ;~;
@@eddieru It's not, Forza Horizon 1 received a 4K patch more than a year after it was delisted.
@@zerotofifty then it should be listed again. they can’t sell a product without a license. and also that was in tandem with the 10th anniversary for the game. they didn’t add anything but music which is easier to get than a license from a manufacturer. FM4 has many other licenses that aren’t in FH1 too. Tracks need licensing too. horizon has the benefit of not needing as many. and a shorter car list. it’s 1/4 that of FH4
I've never understood why car manufacturers are so against damage in games. I have never crashed a car in a game and thought "must be a dangerous car"
I guess they just always want their cars presented in the best possible way but yeah it’s dumb 💁
seeing how dumb people can be, i'm not surprised this is a thing
I think this is something some pencil pusher in the PR department stipulated. Probably to justify their job!
Grid Legends has a good damage model hoods and lids fly off
The de-evolution of damage models in modern racing games is dumb, you'd figure with the technical power in the newer consoles, the damage model would be more sophisticated instead of just limited to scratches and little dings.
Another thing about FM1 damage is that when you hit a wall, you'd actually leave behind paint marks that were the same color as your car. Mind blowing for 2005.
Yeah the damage was seriously impressive for the time 🙌
I recently played Forza Motorsport 4 after many years of not playing it and it's truly amazing. Not only it's graphically stunning, the handling/controls are spot on, has great variety of tracks and elegant presentation, but if you get the Game of the Year Edition I believe it's the Forza with most amount of cars in the series. I truly enjoyed Forza Motorsport 7 as well and I'm currently replaying the career mode for Forza Motorsport 6 to complete all the races and it's also a lot of fun. One thing to note about Forza Motorsport 2023 (aka Forza Motorsport 8) is that the game requires an internet connection at all times, including to play the single player career mode so that alone makes it my least favorite game of the franchise by a long shot.
Not only the driving and car list, but the community features Forza 3-4 had that set itself worlds apart from the garbage that came after.
@@apophisstr6719 I bought Forza Motorsport 3: Ultimate Collection (has all the DLC included on disc) a few years ago but haven't played it yet but I'm pretty sure I will like it more than whatever we got after Forza Motorsport 4.
@@arioca Well, it's not possible to experience the best parts of 3 & 4 now since the online features were long dead.
@@apophisstr6719 I’m aware of the server shutdown but I’m still gonna enjoy the single player career mode.
Your comment is basically exactly my opinion 😂 4 is amazing and I really like 6 and 7 as well (I think I probably actually have the most hours in 6). I’m hoping we get some of the magic back for the 9th entry
Graphical improvements is the only thing pushing modern gaming. Fidelity fidelity fidelity
It's always funny when they fail even in that graphical fidelity department.
Assassin's Creed Unity still looks better than anything Ubisoft release after it.
But the sad truth is that many players are blinded by the graphics. Many players think that good graphics = a good game. A lot of gamers would choose a bad game with good graphics over a good game with less good graphics. That's why many developers nowadays prioritise graphics over gameplay. Because a beautiful game sells more copies. Gamers are just stupid...
Bro, the way you put yourself in every spot possible is absolutely hilarious. I love it !
Thanks, glad you’re enjoying 😊
17:35 i think is whats wrong with all big names in the racing genre. It USED to be a moderate-sized team of people who all loved cars and wanted to make a cool car game. These days, its just developers looking to pay the bills getting contracted to make a racing game. Nothing is technically "wrong" about it, they are all competent games but have ZERO soul.
Yup it definitely feels soulless. It’s a shame because I’m sure there are lots of people at turn 10 that are really passionate but it doesn’t come across in the game
Although they did work really hard to make sure blind people can play it. 😝
Ahh yes the latest Gran Turismo and Forza games having single player campaigns many times inferior to entries from 20 years ago. There has never been a better time to be a gamer.
Motorsport 3 and 4 also showed tire flex of the cars. Which was a pretty cool feature and it was never to be seen again in future forzas.
Pretty sure I see the flex in the new games, I know for a fact I did last night playing FH5
@@FracturedGoblinBut I am talking about Motorsport titles.
Did not know this, thanks for shouting it out 🙌
Ew fh5 player
Go play Fortnite kid reeee @@FracturedGoblin
@@Phenom98 I play FM wayyy more than FH you dike, only reinstalled it recently after a year or two. If I wanna drive production cars for a change FM is lacking hard
I found how to change the car in the main menu by total accident after staring at that cadillac since release. Felt like something it should just ~do~ automatically.
Yeah it’s always done it automatically in the past, was just a weird little thing that annoyed me 😁
I think you could basically apply this videos general consensus across the years of games and apply it to any other franchise/series/developers content. That period of 2008-2012 or so was just unbeatable for gaming content
Widen that to 2005 to 2015 and I would agree with you, at least for console gaming.
Very true
FM7 was always the odd one out to me. The menus were rather confusing and I hated the sub class homologation thing where the PP limits of events were far too strict for what upgrades you could apply. They may as well have made the car restrictions as stock only. I preferred FM6 in that respect where I could just upgrade my ‘x’ class car in the ‘y’ car category. Also the FM6 soundtrack, my lord, that is amazing. I boot up FM6:Apex on PC just to listen to it sometimes and have the home menu as a dynamic wallpaper. Though, I do give FM2 nostalgia points.
Yeah I agree, I think 7 looks amazing but I think my heart is with 6 in that fight. And yeah I think I mentioned in my first Forza 2023 review that the music in 6 is really good, when you’re at the top of mount panaroma with the soundtrack pumping it doesn’t get much better
Hey, i really like your videos. Keep up the good work, they are very enjoyable
Thanks! Glad you are enjoying 😊
The first 4 games all have much more progression with more limited resource earnings and less free cars. You had a bunch of events you ended up modifying your cars to run in, so you really got attached to certain cars. The last 4 games removed that for a bunch of random events where you're always running in the same homologation requirements (Many of which are ludicrous, like FM7 requiring 20's/30's cars to be A class instead of D class.) FM7 is just a series of random 5 race groups which are too stringent on car choice so you just pick whatever random car you got for free that fits the bill. It's actually even worse because when you buy a car it's already upgraded to homologation spec so you never drive the cars stock.
23 does the same thing, except now they expect you to upgrade your car over the course of ~30-60 minutes and they pretend like that's any different or makes you attached to the car.
To this day, I still remember starting with an Audi TT and later migrating to an MR2 I upgraded over time into race cars to progress through forza 1's career.
Yeah I know some people like the open ended career stuff of the more recent games, but I definitely prefer the old progression system from the first 4, I think the very first game has much better progression than the 2023 entry
that bit with the psychologist at the beginning gained you a sub, amazing video so far :D
Thanks! Glad you enjoyed it, cheers for the sub 😊
Keep it up. I love your reviews because I can relate being a very casual gamer
Thanks! Glad you are enjoying and understanding of my less than stellar technical knowledge 😂
Your take on gran Turismo is what I'm waiting on. 👍🏻 This was awesome.
Thanks! I did a quick little review of 7 you can check out 😊 I’m planning on doing the whole series at some point in the not too distant future, stay tuned 👍 thanks for the watch 😊
When game developers have to tell you how good their product is rather than their product speaking for itself............
Forza 4 was the high point for me and I still play on my 360 with a modern sim rig.
Why can't Turn 10 see that they had the recipe years ago and all they need to do is expand on it with modern tech.
Mainly it has to do with people in charge and leads controlling the game.
For example mike brown from horizon after he took over for a spell many of the horizon games took a steep decline in quality especially updates because mike brown doesn't give a single fuck about cars or racing. He only cares about is open world games which on paper sure that sounds good but in practice. Sorry for all caps.
HOLY FUCKING SHIT I CANT SEE SHIT ON THE MAP THERE'S WAY TOO MANY FUCKING ICONS!
Yes there is a filter setting but that doesn't mean we cant ignore a mess that they created. First three horizons had done their icons and maps perfectly.
Then comes handling which started to feel much the same as last game with little subtle changes
and of course car models which now after so many years of gt players making fun of them alongside forza players.
So overall. If lead heart isn't in right direction or they only care about the money and praise for dumb decisions then thats why many games failed because leadership and executive meddling along with making games only shareholders give a shit about not giving shit about us is why this game failed.
@@evandaymon8303 True, ever since he left horizon 5 started to have good updates and the game is much better now. Hopefully Motorsport gets this treatment soon.
Yup if they’d kept building on 4s template with upgraded tech, we’d probably be looking at a masterpiece
Your main complaint about 2023 Forza's handling feeling too safe and finding it hard to spin out definitely goes out the window when you plug in a wheel. Easily the best feeling Forza using a wheel.
Forza 4 and 7 are leagues ahead of every other game in the franchise. It’s kind of insane
I’ll throw in some points for 6 as well 🙌 I definitely came away from replaying the series thinking I want to play 4 for the career progression and 7 just to look at it
6 was far better than 7. 7 was start at the downfalm with fm
To be honest, I haven't really liked a Forza career since the XBOne era, they all kinda feel more like checklists than actual careers, especially 5 and 6 where it's literally "do a series of races in this style of car and never touch it again", I gave up on the series to I never played 7 and sure as hell skipped 2023 because of that. I liked being able to play around with your garage and seeing what cars you could sneak into what events and that kind of stuff, and I think the events themselves had better car variety.
Yeah the older games definitely had better car variety, I think 4 for me has the best event variety and mix of different cars racing together. Thanks for the watch 😊
I think the fact that career modes have felt like working through checklists for the last few years is a common problem with racing games.
"This game just doesn't give a fuck..." -- the absolute best review of Forza Motorsport 2023 I've ever heard. 😂 A++
If it was a person it would be constantly shrugging 🤷
Why no racecar in career?
Also no offline career?
I mean since i moslty skipped 5, i never really interacted with the scummy booster system, so i thought of 7's boosters more like challenges than a leftover scummy move. It just felt like a way to be like "do good at the thing, get a thing"
Music at the end always makes me feel like were saying goodbye.......forever.
Love your review style for sure! I’d stay I’m must excited for you to check out GT7 VR, review Driveclub and Anthem (2019).
Thanks! Can confirm driveclub and anthem will both be coming this year 😊 I’m yet to pick up a psvr but that’ll probably happen soon as well 👍
The original is one of the greatest racing games ever, and was also my first. Glad to see it getting some love.
What elevates it so high isn't even just the progression imo. It's the custom Drivatar lobbies you could make, letting you race against your OWN TUNES with the AI set to max difficulty and try to beat them. I LOVED filling the entire grid with custom cars in my garage and seeing once and for all, which ones were the most powerful. It was the single greatest feature in any Forza title and it's easy to miss.
Yeah I totally missed that 😂 sounds pretty great, I’ll have to go back in and give it a look
After watching a couple of your more recent videos and then this one I thought I'd make a request.
I would love it if you explored some of the good games of recent history, with maybe a focus on smaller devs as they seem to be the only ones that aren't spiritual devoid at this point. As part of this request I would love it if you could give Balatro a little explore. It's my game of the year so far and I would really enjoy your perspective on it! Anyway, thanks for the content 👍
Forza needs to bring back custom lobbies
I enjoy 7 but gonna go back to 4 where I don’t need to be connected and have a actual single player mode
Yeah I prefer 4s career for sure
Give me FM '23 physics and handling/driving feel, with FH5 graphics and color palette.....and just smush them into FM4. Can guarantee would sell by the truck load.
Yeah I’ll take that for sure. Bit baffling that a massive open world driving game looks better than a closed track racer 😬
I really loved the career mode in 7.... honestly it is the only one I finished. The new Forza game has so much potential. The career mode needs to have more content for sure but I do like that they are all actually races and not silly stuff like bowling. I also like the series that come and go but we need more of them. But the biggest thing missing from the new Forza is stats! What the hell! I want to know how many trophies I won and with what cars and what I have done on each track etc. to me this diminishes the career mode more than anything!
I think the lack of stats is indicative of a lack of care generally put into the single player, it definitely feels half baked. I can do without the bowling for sure 😂 would still be nice to have some more variety in there like multi class races or drifting or just some more variety to the locations would help a lot. Thanks for the watch 😊
If you use controller, they screwed the steering sensitivity up royally. Unless you tune the cars suspension to be incredibly oversteery, you actually cant spin out, the game limits how much steering a controller will allow at speeds over 50mph. Even on "simulation steering" you cant turn the wheel more than 10° on controller. That killed fm8 for me, on top of all the missing content.
I think I’m speaking for 90% of the people who play the game when I say this. I only care about the online multiplayer, my 3 real complaints about the game are that the skill rating system has a rating cap unlike a game like iRacing, there are really only 2 consistent racing series to choose between , and short length races.
Yeah I don’t really have any issues with the multi, I think I’m a bit weird in that I’ve always played heaps of single player in these games, and the 2023 single player is 💩
Glad people are enjoying the multi though, hopefully we get the best of both worlds next time out
Imo it’s the best online racing game for controller, I don’t care about wheel, it’s even better than GT7 in this regard, no one agrees though, prob because most people have PS5, and most people only care about graphics and stuff, if you get past this stuff you realise the physics allow for the best wheel to wheel racing of any game I can think of
for someone who plays it because you like games, not cos ur a sim dude, it's a great insight. if you want sims like myself I have other games but these are the most realistic games I can play on controller to relax, it's great, and i love these relaxed comparisons because it's exactly what I'm looking for!! and you agree with most of my points. loved the video amazing humour too lol
Thanks! I don’t see much point in pretending to be an expert because I’m not 😂 I tend to approach all games (not just driving) from a perspective of is this fun and engaging and does it look good 🤷 glad you are enjoying 😊
dear wimp! spot-on (as always), but to be honest: you brought up the very moment forza lost it for me: these @~# cards to „boost your cars and breaks and stuff“. i really was on of the biggest forza fanboys (as i am now a wimp-fanboy, which i failed to mention in my previous comment - please accept my apologies!), but forza 6 was the nail in the coffin for the series. 5 was - at least for me - somewhat of a surprisingly bad game, but after that i went over it to play Gran Turismo on the PS.
i gave forza a shot back in 2023, but come on … they used to be so much better!
You are correct my friend, I’m guessing the cards went in there to give themselves an option to monetise them in the future once we’d all forgot about the micro transactions in 5. The older ones are certainly superior in my opinion
We need some of those really classic Forza tracks in the new game. They we so good. Top of my want list Fujimi Kaido.
100% I miss the old tracks so much, give us Bernese alps and Dubai and prague as well
The cards are bloody horrible and killed 6 for me. I want to love 6, but that feature is so baffling
Yeah it’s a pretty weird addition, I’m guessing they were trying to add depth but it makes it come across less like a sim when you can artificially alter the cars performance
Makes me really appreciate the first Forza. It looks GREAT for it's time! Felt great to play. Lots of my summer vacation went to Forza
I was really surprised how well it holds up, physics are really solid, the career is super varied and it looks good for the time
I played fm3 so many times, and my god, I had a blast with that game, specially playing on split screen with my friends. I only played 3, 5, 7 and 2023, and for me, it is still the best one from those, but I think it is nostalgia too, because 7 was fantastic!
Yeah I really like 7 a lot, I think 3 is great, you don’t need to worry about nostalgia on that one - going back to it was like ‘oh yup this still rules’
I honestly feel satisfied with Forza Motorsport 7
10:36 My theory is that car companies let devs do better damage models because part of them was like eh nobody is gonna see it anyway. now that video games are a multi billionaire dollar business annually, too many eyes to have see your product look beat up
Which is very stupid like why would a serious car buyer care about a car in a racing game looking beat up use the game to buy the car irl?
Like no one in their right mind is going to give a damn about making the product look good and not have much damage.
@@evandaymon8303 it’s just not a good look. like in midnight club, before licensed cars you could hit pedestrians. if they can avoid making their product look bad by any means they will now
I disagree, codenasters games still have some aggressive damage models. I would put to manufactures not wanting their road cars to get negative associations because the in-game car has damage issues. It's hard enough to get manufactures to release their damage reports, let alone let a game simulate it.
Whereas the built for racing counterparts are expected to get torn up as they do on real race tracks. There's plenty of wrecked footage for the devs to reference.
Making a complex damage model isn't a big focus of many racing games (wreckfest and BeamNG not withstanding) as most people don't think much of it and modelling damage for 300+ cars while also making it look real isn't a great return on investment.
Sorry for the yammering.
@@ndh06 no dude fuck yeah with the yammering. i guess in never considered devs not bothering creating said crash models. great point with codemasters game, i haven’t touched many of their games since the grid reboot. in real life cars do have different damage ratings and are nearly unique to every single one.
I’d say you’re correct in that money and business deals basically muck everything up eventually 😂
I remember playing FM2 PRAYING for Wet Weather for FM3
Yup and we wouldn’t get it for another 3 games 😂
Can confirm that Motorsport 4 is NOT better with kinect 😂 still love that game to bits tho!
Sooooo cancel my kinect order? 😂
Online killed the single player gaming experience. Devs focus too much on online multiplayer
Yup 100%
Unfortunately, this is the case throughout the entire games industry. I can't stand this trend. Almost every game has to have online multiplayer these days. And the single player only gets implemented very half-heartedly. If there is one at all...
Loved the video.
The way the first xbox 360 Forza horizon looks back compatible on xbox series x i would have loved Forza motorsport on original Xbox to have come back compatible and Forza Motorsport 4.
My favourite racers on xbox but i do now and then jump to 6 and 7 they do look gorgeous i must say.
Yup the lack of backwards compatibility is really annoying, especially if you prefer the older games. Glad you enjoyed the video 😊
It feels like after forza horizon overtook motorsport in popularity T10 stopped giving a shit.
They also stop giving a shit for forza horizon after 3 but recent updates are better but it just there. Not bad or good just there
Yeah horizon has definitely been bad for the Motorsport series
The new forza was so disappointing that I finally decided to buy a PS5 and play Gran Turismo. I've fallen in love with GT7 and now want to get a ps3 so I can play GT5 and GT6.
Same thing happened to me, also need to get my hands on a ps3 (mine died recently 😢) so I can check out the earlier gt’s
GT 5 is a great game. I like this more than 6 and 7
You should try GT4 out as well! It's one of the best racing games of the PS2 era.
Motorsport 2 supremacy!!
Quality content, keep em coming!
Cheers, glad you are enjoying 😊
FM23 is a complete corporate snooze fest.
Yup
I also think Forza 6 is underrated! The reviews aren't great and people dont seem to look back on it fondly, but as somebody who's only just getting into this stuff, having played Horizons 2-4, Project Cars 2, and FM 5 and 6, Forza 6 is where im spending most of my time.
Yup 6 is my underdog entry, it really got things back on track after 5, the career has really good variety (love the moments in Motorsport stuff). I think of all them I probably have the most time spent in 6. Still looks good too, especially the wet weather
I’m so happy I have my GT7. I don’t know what the hell Turn 10 is doing. The cars just don’t feel right to drive. At least Forza Horizon 5 is fun.
i just want to say for the video, the audio is all over the place, the speech is not clear its very bassy, but if i up the volume to hear the music and cuts become too loud.
In terms of driving, FM 2023 is by far the best of the series if you know how to set up a wheel (the baseline settings are AWFUL). The worst part about FM 2023 and FM7 is they are always online. Who knows how long these servers are going to be up. The last game you can get and play without online servers is FM6 and I would prefer this game to FM4, and I played four years on FM4.
Fm7 works offline
Fm 7 is playable offline it always been playable offline
Recent Forza games have been pretty meh. FH5 is just a small expansion of FH4 with a worse map, and Motorsport is just a soulless mess.
Yup agree re 5, it’s basically just a copy paste of 4 but with micro transactions and an uglier map. I think 6 and 7 kind of got it back on track but the new one was super disappointing
I put the game down at start of may.. Taking a break after putting 150 hours in it. The game does suck but its fun with friends in private lobby that's only reason why I stuck with the game.
Yeah I think the multiplayer is pretty decent, was just disappointed by the career
personally the best for me is 4 i have fond memories of 3 never really played 1 or 2. if 8 kept the old weather system it would have been so much better. i feel like wet weather in the new one is just damp track. i liked on 6 and 7 if it was wet you had to change your line in some corners and tracks. it wass actually how it wuold be. look at most if not all race tracks when its wet puddles do form alot of the time on the racing line. another thing. i miss the silly eco cars like the honda fit type and the weird ones like vans and stuff. along with the playground online games, like tag infection and stuff like that. moder games it just feels like they went " oh the kids love super cars put more super cars in the game, get rid of the cars that no one cares about to make more space, people want a racing game put 0 effort into fun modes no one will notice". i do miss the old damage modles of the old older games where mirrors bumpers wings could all fall off. just crinkling and scuffing the pannel is nothing its pointless hell in real racing cars hit eachother in corners and dont cause the damage forza shows. like rubbins racing but hold up all the paints now gon and it looks like a discraded peice of paper rolled out
Yup 4 is my favourite as well, just wish it had wet weather in there. Totally agree about wet tracks in fm2023, massive step back from how dynamic it was in 6 and 7. And yeah the damage modelling just keeps getting worse and worse, not sure if it’s a licensing thing or just a lack of interest from the devs. Thanks for the watch 😊
i would like to get my hands on motorsport 4 once, i only got to play 5 to 7 so far and my favorite there was 7. i got 3 but no xbox 360 to play it soooo... lets see when that will happen
4 is amazing, the career structure is a lot more rigid than 7 so it’ll be interesting to see if you enjoy it
I'm actually getting sick of games being released incomplete. Waiting a year for bug fixes. And then finally after the 1st year you get real content updates.
They stripped basically all of the Forza identity in FM8. And the driver is barely improved from FM7.
If they made it a realistic sim racer then the game would atleast appeal to some people. But there is no reason to play this over Horizon. Or even over FM7. It has no audience
I think live service has been a blessing and a curse, games receiving regular updates is cool, giving games an excuse to release in poor condition to get fixed later is not
You also missed where fm7 had 30+ multiplayer game modes and fm 2023 is the same restricted circuit racing , not even open track day . Even the Xbox showcase 2022 showed off drift and drag false advertising it
Yeah true, I didn’t want to do a multiplayer comparison because it’s hard to play the older ones online these days, but I’ve definitely seen a lot of people unhappy with 2023’s. I thought it was ok, though I’m not much of a multiplayer expert
The Forza Motorsport family is not dysfunctional!
Fm2023, a racing game that doesnt even have a overall race timer so you dont know how ling youve played in a session until the end. Dont think you can ever see it at all in test drive either, which is all i actually do as i just want to mess around and have fun by myself
As mostly a solo player I can agree - seriously lacking in just about every department
FM2023 is really the bottom of the pit in terms of single player, and it really shows how they only 'focus' on multiplayer (gt7 too)
BUT, the multiplayer of this game is actually pretty solid, especially league racing! (and hopefully getting better with this next update)
they have some cool playlists with cool car classes that rotate weekly, open class is still here...
I think if they did the bare minimum of a forza career mode, (maybe just copying the same structure of 7) the game would be accepted way better, even with the other problems it has
Totally agree, I think the multiplayer is solid and there seem to be a lot of people enjoying it which is great 👍 hopefully the next time out we get a good single player experience as well 🤷 thanks for the watch 😊
I video that didn't make me cringe. Cheers mate.
0:00-0:04 fuck yes
yes this is really annoying what almost in any racing sim today, developers trying to make mostly online oriented
_specially make single carrier mod more bad and boring then before_ 😕👎
Yup hopefully we get a good single player mode next time out
I can't speak for any Forza games before 6 as I never played them cause I'm a PC nerd and refused to pay £500 to downgrade just to play one racing game.
For me though FM6 Apex (the PC tech demo) was by far the best looking, FM7 came close but the weird fog that appeared green at times just ruined it.
Apex's wet weather was outstanding plus the fact it looked so damned good and would run on a potato PC at ridiculous fps rates, 80-160fps on my old AMD 9590 and R9 290X, whilst the current s**tshow can barely manage 50-116fps on my current 5800X3D and 7900XTX and looks permanently blurred on my 32:9 screen.
FM looks like a smeared, blurry mess to me, what's the point of raytracing a game that looks so goddamned shite you just end up with a marked uncanny valley situation...
On the flipside AMS2 runs at 120 (back of the grid) to 320fps (clear track) and doesn't look like it's smeared my screen with vaseline (just like you mentioned in FM5 iirc).
"Just use 200% scaling" the rabid shill fanboys scream... "Yeah right and get half the fps rate as a result and STILL have blurred visuals regardless? Get tae f**k!"
Chris Esaki claimed in the Forza monthlies before launch "Full ultrawide and superultrawide support at launch" alongside "Forza Motorsport is designed to run on PC's from low end to high end systems..."
On top of this the "Self trained AI that's done thousands of laps to train itself on every track" (Chris again in the Forza monthlies) is STILL woefully bad in FM, it's improved slightly, though I think they just switched back to the cheating FM7 AI...
The handling is abysmal, checking one of my fav cars the BMW M8 GTE at it's stock settings the projected laptimes at Spa is 2:21.408 on soft tyres with 25% full tank.
The actual fastest race laptime set in the 2019 6 hours of Spa in this exact car was a 2:14.208! The lap record in this class of car is 2:11.219 by Kevin Estre.
OK so upgrade the car in FM to 695HP from it's stock 551HP and the best time indicated is 2:16.753, over 2.5 seconds of real world laptimes and 4.5 seconds off the outright lap record.
Best I could manage in FM was 2:18.110 and went from 18th to 1st by lap 2 at the end of the Kemmel straight. I lapped the last placed AI on lap 5, fastest AI total time was 12:02.185 even with the AI set to max...
ua-cam.com/video/3NlpCnDgIMk/v-deo.htmlsi=nZyu7IuRkTL3F4M4
Same race in AMS2, 24th on the grid to 1st took me until lap 4 along the Kemmel straight. the last placed AI was within 30 seconds of my overall time with a total time of 1:54.866, in other words the entire field of AMS2 AI would be 7.3 seconds ahead of the entire field in FM. Fastest lap for me was 2:13.858 in this race, plus I just set a time trial time of 2:11.852 just last night 0.633 of Kevin Estre's lap record.
ua-cam.com/video/aAkI8jhMgos/v-deo.htmlsi=drZ21ZHn-iT7eNm6
Oh and the AI in AMS2 was set to 100 skill and max aggression, they go upto 120 skill which is lap record territory...
Which game looks better to you?
Calling FM a simulator is disingenuous it's not even simcade anymore, it's pure arcade at best...
Just went back and play fm2 with project plus forza mod really good, its crazy how much better Xbox 360 era forza motorsport was. Wtf happened the quality just dropped.
I think they just started running out of steam, focus definitely shifted to online. The horizon games probably gave them a bit of an identity crisis as well
Its gonna get gudd, i promise. Lol
Great video as per usual! As a poorly millennial playstation child, if there were a gun in my mouth that could be removed if i play a single forza race, I'd tell you to pull the trigger.
😂😂😂 this comment made me laugh out loud. Thanks for the watch and support 😊
I love this game. Its the brst one by far.
For me Best to worst. FM4, FH5, FM7, FH3, FH1, FM2, FH4, FH2, FM6, FM1, FM5, Forza Street, Forza Customs, Forza Motorsport Showdown, FM (reboot)
I think you’ve nailed it - I’d probably swap FH5 and 3 but that’s just the Aussie bias talking 😂
Love it!!!
Stopped watching the minute you said FM2023 has the best multiplayer... There is no stat tracking, no racing at the Nurburgring, only a handful of different categories to race in, and no ranked/divisional modes. It's utterly inconsequential.
I may have misspoken- I said I wasn’t going to compare the multiplayer because it’s difficult to play the older titles online so let’s just give a win to 2023 by default because it’s not going to win any other categories 😂 definitely have seen a lot people unhappy with the multi
9:10 😭😭😭😭
No more chicane tyre walls, no more street looking cars on track mixed grid, the best Forza M for wheel FFB plus all weather n time on all tracks were my biggest hopes for this one.
Yes it's been a sh!t show with them talking BS pre launch but it's getting better every month and being a frustrated sim racer unable to get a decent PC I've no choice but to grin bare n enjoy but having said that... We need people to keep them making it better 👍
Yup I’m hoping they will get there 🤞
I might re download 7 because F.MTS is not it fr
But the sad truth is that many players are blinded by the graphics. Many players think that good graphics = a good game. A lot of gamers would choose a bad game with good graphics over a good game with less good graphics. That's why many developers nowadays prioritise graphics over gameplay. Because a beautiful game sells more copies. Gamers are just stupid...
FM6 and FM7 were genuinely worth the purchase. 6 had better car sounds but 7's physics were god tier. Shame the Xbox One got off to such a rough start, but those two easily made up for it.
Yeah 5 was a bit rough, 6 got them back on track and I think 7 builds on that foundation really nicely. 7 gets pipped at the post by 4 for me, but only just
I don't see this game as THE next motorsport game I see it like what GT did with GT sport and put the game is kinda a gateway to THE next actually motorsport maybe I'm just coping but I really hope the next game is an actual rival to GT
Here’s hoping! It does feel very focused on the online, hopefully we get a better mix next time out
FM3 is flouty, FM2 not
I found 2 pretty floaty this time around, 3 felt ok to me, but I think driving feel across different games is a bit of a personal preference thing 👍
@@wimpwilson agree
Thankfully FM4 ( and Horizon1) run great on Xenia emulator and after all these years of being a PC guy I can finally play these gems. So FM4 still feels, looks and plays great. FM7 looks better but has lost so much soul over the years. And who needs wet weather racing that much?, I cant see sh*t :)
And FM8 is a lost cause and I fear that the Motorsport series is dead and the next Horizon 6 is under pressure to deliver big.
Oh that’s good to know 😊 I agree about 7, there’s something slightly soulless about it that keeps it from the top of my list. It’ll be really interesting to see where they go from here, for both fm9 and fh6. The horizon formula needs a bit of a shake up. Thanks for the watch 😊
Forza 4 has a few flaws in the carrer that are to intricate to write here so I just want to say: it's not perfect.
Also the menus are better because dark mode.
FM4 has a really strange career. None of the races have anything to do with one another and the two leg "championship" races have two legs that are unconnected and nothing you do in the first leg seemed to matter in the second.
@@kdogg7882 It seems to generate events in the moment based on the track and car selected so it lacks structure.
@@myfunbox355 Very true. There are small incentives for using certain car classes or cars, but it's not enough to make you actually want to use them. You can use the same car for the entire "career" if you want, but literally nothing telling you how the season is progressing between races other than the Top Gear guy telling you what the next track is. The FM4 career sucks.
IMO 5 is the best looking.
It definitely looks good for sure, they were out to impress on the new console. I found the lighting to be a little too over the top for me personally, but I can’t disagree that it looks awesome. I actually think 5 has the best replays in the series, really cool camera angles that aren’t in the other games
It is the worst game in the franchise. The online interface was at its peak on forza motorsport 4. You could go into public rooms, instead of being lumped into a race with Randoms. Better tracks. Hell FM8 doesn't even have a damn test track/open space anymore
I don’t remember the multi from 4 all that well but I suspect you are correct - definitely agree regarding the tracks, the 2023 game desperately needs more location variety
Personally, I agree with almost everything. Single player is terrible. Graphics are hit and miss. UI is so jarring and annoying. I do believe it was “built from the ground up” but only in terms of physics. Everything about this game feels a bit odd.
Except… the actual online racing is hands down incredible. It wasn’t at first, but it’s getting there. The physics really are amazing and they’ve hit a perfect balance between realism and playability for controller.
Personally im addicted to multiplayer in this game and I’m sensing a very competitive community developing. I think this alone makes this not only the best forza, but the best “sim-cade” racing game out there, including GT7.
Most people disagree, but then I don’t think they’re as competitive as I am with online racing tbh. I think this game is perfect for guys like me. I have a powerful gaming pc with a sim rig, I have Xbox and I have ps5. But for myself, I have a life and I’m sure my gf would break up with me if I spend any more time on my sim rig, and I agree tbh. It is a bit sad a fully grown man would sit in his bedroom on a sim rig lmao.
For me, I’m a casual sit in my pants on a sofa guy when my girlfriend isn’t in and I’m not working, and forza is PERFECT. It’s real enough I can enjoy the realism of the physics and bump cars with players and stuff, but accessible enough I can do it all on controller. This is super important to me.
Yes, I could play gt7, and I have played it a lot and it’s a very very good game, better than forza in most ways, but… there’s something about its physics that don’t allow the same kind of racing forza does. GT7 is much more rigid and it feels like if you touch another player or the grass, or you hit the throttle too hard, you go flying! It doesn’t feel real in this sense. Cars feel like they’re glued to the track, until they’re not..
Forza feels much closer to irl imo, it allows players to bang doors and be more expressive with their driving. I know this allows for cheats, but the new penalty system works very well and for the most part cheats have started to behave. But it’s a great middle ground with good close wheel banging racing and fair precise sportsman ship. Forza absolutely nailed this and it completely trumps all its flaws and games like GT7 just from this alone! In my opinion.
I also recognise this game isnt done. They’ve not just made a new game, they’ve made a new framework. I expect this game to expand and evolve over time, instead of just realising a new game. I suspect forza is eventually going to become the most popular sim cade, but the only way they can do it is by releasing on ps5. If they did this, GT7 would lose a huge chunk of its player base.
I personally have high hopes, I see the vision and I believe this game is set to become the best sim cade of all time, eventually, fingers crossed lol
@@justamanchimpfm would not sell well even if it was on ps5. Gt has always dominated fm in terms of sales. Fm does poorly simple because its just bad simple as that.
Gt7 would not lose much to fm even if it was on ps5. The thing is people are already selling their Xbox and buy ps5 to play gt7 for dissapointing fm 23 has been. Fm will never be more popular than gt regardless of the platform its on.
The thing is forza horizon 5 is popular and its on the same platforms as forza motorsport 23
Fm will never get close to be as popular as gt. By even looks of things fm 23 is doing even worse than previous titles. They lied making false claims. Had longest work time 6 years campared to 2 years for the others. And still manages to become the worst fm ever made. You should not have to wait for the game to come around when it already took 6 years to come out. Turn 10 drop the ball so hard With fm and if they ever hope to turn it around they need to hurry because they cant afford to not, very small amount of people play it now. And many have switch to gt7 instead. Not supricing really when pd puts in so much more detail into the car models than fm, and when you have models that looks so bad like Silvia s15 and skyline r32 in Forza there is not much hope left for that franshise.
@@andreasmoller9798 nope, if it were on ps5 it would start dipping into the sales because despite the games problems the online racing is still better, this is coming from a guy who spent years playing gt sport and gt7, the physics make the racing better than gt7. You don’t see it now, people probably won’t see it for quite a while but eventually people will see it, especially if it comes over to ps5. Their biggest mistake is making it Xbox exclusive.
@@justamanchimpthat argument dosen’t hold well. Last time i checked fm dosen’t have anything even close that can compete With gt world series in terms of online racing. And last time i checked forza has never made any real world drivers like gt has.
Forza has always been a Microsoft exclusive and gt a playstation exclusive. Fm will never be as popular as gt7 not even if it was on ps5.
Forza motorsport and forza horizon 5 is both on pc Xbox series x and s gt7 is on ps4 and ps5. Forza horizon 5 has bigger audiance than both. But gt7 still has much bigger community than fm to and that would not change regardless of platforms. Gt has always appeal to more people than fm. And if you play both you quickly will understand why regardless of witch one you prefer.
I take gt7 any day of the week over fm. If i play forza i rather play horizon 5 than the new fm.
@@andreasmoller9798 no that’s where you’re wrong, PlayStation has a far bigger customer base than Xbox, like not even close, of course gt7 will have a bigger community, that’s why I’m saying if forza came to ps it would grow much faster than it is, purely because physics alone it’s an amazing racing game and eventually people will realise that, assuming they fix the problems, which they are, just not quick enough that’s the only problem
But like I say, as a guy who has both and played gt7 for years, whilst I think gt7 has more features and specific little nice things, I don’t care, because forza is the superior racing engine and strikes the perfect balance between real driving mechanics and accessibility for controller. I’m not saying it’s miles better than gt7, but it is better though, in time people will see
Turn off traction control then remake the video 😂😂
Fm 23 is failure. I was hoping for a racing game to Puch and compete With gt7 but this is just miles behind gt7.
I prefer gt7 as well, definitely in terms of the single player, although the economy in gt is pretty messed up - aside from that though I think it does pretty much everything better than fm2023. Hopefully next time out they’re both great
Forza Motorsport 2 is the worst game same with Forza Motorsport 5 as and FM23 is worst but FM7 and FM23 is my most favourite games
Polite observation: when I see someone talk about driving simulators and have their IDEAL LINE or BRAKING POINT on in the videos,.... that kind of destroys most points and opinion expressed about handling/physics. It also makes me suspect that the person has TC and ABS and stability control on for cars that have no such devices in real life.
I think a bunch of people might share this sentiment. Play how you want/need, no judgement, but when I see racing line I am like ... meh ... you don't review a sim with racing lines.
It's a bit like running a tactical shooter channel that features mostly fortnite.
Just my 2c ....
I guess that’s why I said I’m not an expert at the start of the video and said if you want a more technical analysis I ain’t the guy😂 I definitely approach these from a more casual standpoint, thanks for the watch anyway 🙌
Am I alone to appreciate the much improved drive feeling in 2023, than 6 and 7 at least? Not much more talks for 2023. Especially career part... ugh.
Yes.
So you can actually play piano, right?
Yup, I do all the piano for the videos
Wish fm7 had the variety of fm4 it needed a lot more shitboxes and Small tracks. It was a lot more fun
True, I think 4 has the most varied car list in the series. If you combined 7s visuals and wet weather with 4s cars and variety and that’s pretty much my dream driving game right there
The game that's really boring is GT7 and Forza Motorsport is definitely more entertaining with better graphics. If you really want to gain subscribers why don't you tell people your a Sony pony that is hurting from Forzas greatness.
Unsure how saying I love the Forza series but was disappointed by the most recent entry makes me a Sony pony, but you do you my friend 😂
@MrHemikid426 Maybe watch the full video before you go on a random tirade.
@@Petrolhead55823 duh
@@MrHemikid426 are you 6?
@@Petrolhead55823 no, 7 duh
Mate, your videos are brilliant and this is one that is close to my Foooorza heart! Thank you for this epic content. Where abouts in Aus are you located?
Mid north coast is as close as I’ll get 😂 glad you’re enjoying the videos, thanks for the watch 🙌
The economy FM 2023 is kind of a big one for me. I own all of Forza games because of how stingy GT was. Forza was never all that bad, especially with VIP. This one though, even with VIP is awful. Tack on the car leveling, even with the changes, is ridiculous. Now compound all of that with the bugs, the weird flat lighting, not being able to actually use an actual race car in career mode (last I tried to play), AND the stupid grindy nature even with VIP, nah. Thanks to turn 10 for taking my money, whilst giving us the worst game they have ever made for the most money and ruining (so far) one of my favorite gaming experiences. From the ground up.
Sounds like your feelings on the new game are exactly the same as mine 😂 such a disappointment, especially with all the pre release hype. And yeah the more I’ve played of gt7 the more the economy seems insane
@@wimpwilson Oh man. Just raced for a half hour? Here is 20 bucks for your new tires, now fuck off. 😂
Does anyone actually say Fortza though? I know that’s the official way but I’ve never heard a normal person stress the T.
some languages pronounce z with a t like in finland it would be "fortsa"
I literally only noticed it for the first time when Jeremy Clarkson said it in Forza 4. Almost fell off the couch 😂