I wish I wasn't discouraged from doing CFA/FRM when I was uni student (I have maths degree). Everybody was telling me, these are bs certs, only martingales matter etc. it was huge mistake. Now I'm CFA chartelholder and I don't regret any minute I spent learning for cfa. Of course such certs are not very deep, but give great overwiev of markets, products and fianncial slang. It helped me a lot in my career. Young man reading this comment if you are at the begining of your career and wondering if you should sign for cfa/frm I'm telling you go for it. I'm pretty sure you will spend more time wondering if it's worth it or not than it will take you to prepare to the exam. Just do it.
Most university degrees not close to CFA level granularity.... ie M7 MBAs generalist degrees.... u made the right choice most if your fellow students would fail binary exams vs soft grading in universities where the stydebt is their customer
Lol it appears to be wandering lecture series in London and money grab.... but lectyres were interesting online.. agreed.. unless you have 10 mill in trust fund and your bored
Hey, interesting take. While I agree that the FRM credential isn't particularly important when hiring quants, in that it doesn't sufficiently demonstrate quant bona fides (in, say, econometric analysis or programming), I think you overlook the signaling value of the credential. The pass rates on the FRM (both exams) are (I think) about 50%. At a minimum, having the FRM signals that an individual can process and absorb a fair amount of moderately technical information at relatively low cost (relative to other individuals). From a strict hiring perspective, the issue of whether the FRM material is applicable in a quant role is largely irrelevant. In the quant space, I think seeing a CFA on the resume is particularly valuable. In banking, the majority of quants don't have a formal finance background; quants tend to have advanced degrees in economics, statistics, physics, computer science, engineering, and so on. It's quite rare to see a genuine quant with, say, a finance/business/accounting degree. Like the FRM, the CFA exams have low pass rates. When I see a quant with demonstrable quant skills (via education & experience) alongside a CFA, the signaling value of the CFA is amplified beyond the value seen in the FRM. The CFA shows that an individual without formal training in finance/accounting/business was able to sit for three difficult (in the passing sense) exams outside her core domain of knowledge and establish competency (if not mastery). Again, it matters little that the CFA (or FRM) curriculum isn't particularly "quanty". What matters is that it signals an unusually high ability of an individual to understand a lot of information -- even when the information is well-removed from one's core competency. So the signaling value of these two credentials (the CFA in particular) is nontrivial, though the quant domain knowledge acquired in obtaining either credential arguably (and as you argue here) is trivial.
I hire and am a principle at a commodity focused hedge fund. 1) most quant work is cookie cutter bs especially when it comes to risk; you don't need a PhD to do it. 2) FRM is good for management, 3) Risk management is not that high paying and is usually for ppl who want to be part of the show, but don't have the ability to be part of the main cast.
CFA is more in-depth than a comparable master degree. It is totally useful and one learn so much about finance and investment. A lot of master degree in investment would not go into the detail of CFA. In fact, a lot of master actually has to signal to the potential student that it has an affiliation with the CFA program in order to attract more people to apply. It definitely is not something that a FRM can compare. The fact that only 10% of the student who register level one would go on and get a CFA charter tell it is not a joke and is something worth pursuing. Of course, if you want to work as a quant, then you’re probably better off getting a master in applied mathematics or physics
FRM is not a quant oriented certification, its meant to equip learners with an understanding of risks for managerial purposes. Not all CEOs, for example, understand the details of quant but they still rely on work done by quants or inferences/judgements/managerial decisions made by risk managers. Point being everyone has a role to play in an organization and it all comes down to who/what you wanna be in the long run. Only take up FRM if you're interested in understanding risks, relationships and related concepts for managerial roles in business world.
Dimitri, which environment has the highest probability for me to meet actual quants? As you said, these FRM/CFA gatherings are basically focused on management. I was thinking of programming conferences(like Neurips), but that one is only once a year and costs 700$+ for a ticket.
Hey dimitri! If i am from non quant finance background ( i am a petroleum engineer) can FRM be a good addition on my profile while applying for universities in USA?
Hey Dimitri, MBA student in Europe with finance minor. Want to make the switch to quant like you but very difficult to be accepted in quantitative masters because of my backround, self teaching is not enough to convince them it seems. Any tips on how to be accepted in quant masters ? Thanks, great channel
I applied for the FRM master's degree program back home and they did not accept me for not having an a background in economics:( regardless the official degree does not require for such). I was so much pissed off with the University that I decided studying the GARP FRM exams I and II as an alternative. I ended up buying used FRM preparation material in ebay and after a several nights of reading, I think passing the page was a good idea and put the FRM venure for another better life :)
Good day, i have always wanted to to FRM coming from a Mathematical/Financial Engineering background. Currently doing my masters degree in data science, not sure if its worth doing frm for me ? I have always been interested in risk but i dont get opportunities due to my lack of a risk specific qualification. IN my country you can have a phd in applied data science they wont look you direction unless you have a certification or online certificate in a programme that spells out the word risk.
In your case it could be helpful. I'm curious how the market risk section is applicable to other countries as exchanges operate differently around the world.
Hello Dimitri again! In my final semester (Applied Math Major here) and just passed FRM level 2, I do agree it isn't very technical (I wish it was) but still completed it while doing my semester, felt a sense of achievement, do hope it will bring some value (even if little) value to my job hunt. I wish for a more in-depth dive into the technical details rather than just reading the materials, alot of times when studying for the FRM I honestly felt that I skipped over many of the math stuff, somehow knowing it will not be tested in the exams. I felt my math finance courses in undergrad were more interesting too haha. Cheers anyways! Good video.
You skipped maths In FRm because you would know it would not be tested ? how come ? what do you mean please ? My son is in Ap maths also and prep FRm I am sure that would help him
Hey Dimitri! I am currently a 3rd year university student in a mathematical finance program and I was in a CS/Finance program before. I am currently working as a portfolio risk analyst and also as a quant research/dev for a quant team at my university (nothing big tho). I want to get into the quant space but I also know it's a tough field and want to keep my options open and use my core skills sets in other similar domains. What other career paths do you suggest and is their any certifications or master programs I should take after my undergrad?
Can we see the paper you published with GARP? I just passed level 2. I agree with what you said- in the op risk book they cover a little bit of model validation. I studied for it just because I liked the material covered.
What is the best way for a high schooler to get into quant finance as someone with mediocre programming and math skills, and little financial knowledge?
You need to get an undergrad and graduate degree. For a high schooler, this is the time to get into an average undergrad and work hard so you can get into a good graduate program.
@@DimitriBianco Im currently applied to colleges for an Applied math major would you recommend I keep on the straight math forward path or attempt to find a major or later a graduate program that directly involves finance?
I think the FRM is very good if you are willing to work in risk management of an Insurance Company. My Finance college friends work in insurance companies, one of them in Market Risk, the other in Actuarial Function and people go for it there.
Hey Dimitri, thanks for sharing your view on this. I somewhat agree. I think those certifications mostly serve as a signal to potential employers that you are willing to obtain the foundational knowledge to break into the field. I got my FRM title and currently studying for CFA Level 3, and honestly, the biggest value I see in them is the idea that I do not have to research the topics to study by myself. Other than that, you pretty much have general knowledge of the topic rather than become a specialist. But then again, the same could be said about any degree/certification. The one thing that I find interesting though is the continuing education portion of it. I feel like I'm forced to learn on a continuous basis. Anyways, just my two cents on that.
Ahoy, An earnest sidenote : Take a rigorous course of Category theory before delving into pure maths for quantative finance. Category Theory (Compulsory) Abstract algebra (Groups + Rings + Fields) Real analysis Complex analysis Functional analysis (optional yet pivotal) Measure theory Stochastic differential equations. All aforementioned should be practiced rigourously.
Hey Dmitri why do you pretend to be a mathematician man? Aren't you a econ and finance grad from UMichigan? Number theory at work lol. Pretty sure you're middle office risk. Stop value judging work descriptions. Everything mathematical is going to be contained within the ML algorithms very soon. The only human differentiation is creativity and that comes from all range of skills whether FRM or math or science or physics. Also try and keep the misleading to a minimumany serious quant sees right through you. I feel bad for early starters and students who fall for snake oil salesmen.
I wish I wasn't discouraged from doing CFA/FRM when I was uni student (I have maths degree). Everybody was telling me, these are bs certs, only martingales matter etc. it was huge mistake. Now I'm CFA chartelholder and I don't regret any minute I spent learning for cfa. Of course such certs are not very deep, but give great overwiev of markets, products and fianncial slang. It helped me a lot in my career. Young man reading this comment if you are at the begining of your career and wondering if you should sign for cfa/frm I'm telling you go for it. I'm pretty sure you will spend more time wondering if it's worth it or not than it will take you to prepare to the exam. Just do it.
Thank you very much for this
This is me and I’m taking your advice
what about data science and AI & financial cloud computing, Tech giants are focusing on them
Most university degrees not close to CFA level granularity.... ie M7 MBAs generalist degrees.... u made the right choice most if your fellow students would fail binary exams vs soft grading in universities where the stydebt is their customer
A video on CQF please
THIS
Does anyone else think Dimitri baited us with the CQF mention?
I can give you the short answer, don't.
Yes please 🙏
Lol it appears to be wandering lecture series in London and money grab.... but lectyres were interesting online.. agreed.. unless you have 10 mill in trust fund and your bored
Hey, interesting take. While I agree that the FRM credential isn't particularly important when hiring quants, in that it doesn't sufficiently demonstrate quant bona fides (in, say, econometric analysis or programming), I think you overlook the signaling value of the credential. The pass rates on the FRM (both exams) are (I think) about 50%. At a minimum, having the FRM signals that an individual can process and absorb a fair amount of moderately technical information at relatively low cost (relative to other individuals). From a strict hiring perspective, the issue of whether the FRM material is applicable in a quant role is largely irrelevant.
In the quant space, I think seeing a CFA on the resume is particularly valuable. In banking, the majority of quants don't have a formal finance background; quants tend to have advanced degrees in economics, statistics, physics, computer science, engineering, and so on. It's quite rare to see a genuine quant with, say, a finance/business/accounting degree. Like the FRM, the CFA exams have low pass rates. When I see a quant with demonstrable quant skills (via education & experience) alongside a CFA, the signaling value of the CFA is amplified beyond the value seen in the FRM. The CFA shows that an individual without formal training in finance/accounting/business was able to sit for three difficult (in the passing sense) exams outside her core domain of knowledge and establish competency (if not mastery). Again, it matters little that the CFA (or FRM) curriculum isn't particularly "quanty". What matters is that it signals an unusually high ability of an individual to understand a lot of information -- even when the information is well-removed from one's core competency. So the signaling value of these two credentials (the CFA in particular) is nontrivial, though the quant domain knowledge acquired in obtaining either credential arguably (and as you argue here) is trivial.
Thank you for discouraging me, I will now quit academia, math and finance and get a job at the local burger shop.
😂😂😂
I hire and am a principle at a commodity focused hedge fund. 1) most quant work is cookie cutter bs especially when it comes to risk; you don't need a PhD to do it. 2) FRM is good for management, 3) Risk management is not that high paying and is usually for ppl who want to be part of the show, but don't have the ability to be part of the main cast.
Then what complex quantitative certifications do you recommend taking into consideration the constant growth in market sophistication?
CFA is more in-depth than a comparable master degree. It is totally useful and one learn so much about finance and investment. A lot of master degree in investment would not go into the detail of CFA. In fact, a lot of master actually has to signal to the potential student that it has an affiliation with the CFA program in order to attract more people to apply. It definitely is not something that a FRM can compare. The fact that only 10% of the student who register level one would go on and get a CFA charter tell it is not a joke and is something worth pursuing.
Of course, if you want to work as a quant, then you’re probably better off getting a master in applied mathematics or physics
Perfect job delineation my friend.. rare
Any comments on the actuarial exams conducted by the SOA along with quant finance masters?
Dimitri , Please do video on Is CQF worth it?
You don't deserve it
@@atulchanderdas7981 I don't deserve it why bro?
@@ajayreddy1729 please don't pay attention these trolls.
CQF is worth it if you living in INDIA OR EUROPE.
FRM is not a quant oriented certification, its meant to equip learners with an understanding of risks for managerial purposes. Not all CEOs, for example, understand the details of quant but they still rely on work done by quants or inferences/judgements/managerial decisions made by risk managers. Point being everyone has a role to play in an organization and it all comes down to who/what you wanna be in the long run. Only take up FRM if you're interested in understanding risks, relationships and related concepts for managerial roles in business world.
Dimitri, which environment has the highest probability for me to meet actual quants? As you said, these FRM/CFA gatherings are basically focused on management. I was thinking of programming conferences(like Neurips), but that one is only once a year and costs 700$+ for a ticket.
Hey dimitri! If i am from non quant finance background ( i am a petroleum engineer) can FRM be a good addition on my profile while applying for universities in USA?
Hey Dimitri, MBA student in Europe with finance minor. Want to make the switch to quant like you but very difficult to be accepted in quantitative masters because of my backround, self teaching is not enough to convince them it seems. Any tips on how to be accepted in quant masters ? Thanks, great channel
I applied for the FRM master's degree program back home and they did not accept me for not having an a background in economics:( regardless the official degree does not require for such). I was so much pissed off with the University that I decided studying the GARP FRM exams I and II as an alternative. I ended up buying used FRM preparation material in ebay and after a several nights of reading, I think passing the page was a good idea and put the FRM venure for another better life :)
Why equate FRM and quant roles? Makes no sense.
Good day, i have always wanted to to FRM coming from a Mathematical/Financial Engineering background. Currently doing my masters degree in data science, not sure if its worth doing frm for me ? I have always been interested in risk but i dont get opportunities due to my lack of a risk specific qualification. IN my country you can have a phd in applied data science they wont look you direction unless you have a certification or online certificate in a programme that spells out the word risk.
In your case it could be helpful. I'm curious how the market risk section is applicable to other countries as exchanges operate differently around the world.
is a Sustainability and Climate Risk (SCR) worth it?
Here are my thoughts on the SCR.
ua-cam.com/video/uMO9Ri9seZE/v-deo.htmlsi=70AJ5Q-65qIxlMRt
Hello Dimitri again! In my final semester (Applied Math Major here) and just passed FRM level 2, I do agree it isn't very technical (I wish it was) but still completed it while doing my semester, felt a sense of achievement, do hope it will bring some value (even if little) value to my job hunt. I wish for a more in-depth dive into the technical details rather than just reading the materials, alot of times when studying for the FRM I honestly felt that I skipped over many of the math stuff, somehow knowing it will not be tested in the exams. I felt my math finance courses in undergrad were more interesting too haha. Cheers anyways! Good video.
You skipped maths In FRm because you would know it would not be tested ? how come ? what do you mean please ?
My son is in Ap maths also and prep FRm
I am sure that would help him
Hey Dimitri! I am currently a 3rd year university student in a mathematical finance program and I was in a CS/Finance program before. I am currently working as a portfolio risk analyst and also as a quant research/dev for a quant team at my university (nothing big tho). I want to get into the quant space but I also know it's a tough field and want to keep my options open and use my core skills sets in other similar domains. What other career paths do you suggest and is their any certifications or master programs I should take after my undergrad?
Can you please compare FRM with the CERA track of SOA.
No because I'm not an actuary. Most quant practitioners won't hire actuaries as their education is too focused on actuarial sciences.
Can we see the paper you published with GARP?
I just passed level 2. I agree with what you said- in the op risk book they cover a little bit of model validation. I studied for it just because I liked the material covered.
This is the paper.
papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3653514
What is the best way for a high schooler to get into quant finance as someone with mediocre programming and math skills, and little financial knowledge?
You need to get an undergrad and graduate degree. For a high schooler, this is the time to get into an average undergrad and work hard so you can get into a good graduate program.
@@DimitriBianco Im currently applied to colleges for an Applied math major would you recommend I keep on the straight math forward path or attempt to find a major or later a graduate program that directly involves finance?
Ηi Dimitri, do you think it is possible to have friendships at your work environment, or prople at work are just your colleagues?
Video podcast recorded for this. It should be publish this Tuesday.
@@DimitriBianco great thanks!
I think the FRM is very good if you are willing to work in risk management of an Insurance Company.
My Finance college friends work in insurance companies, one of them in Market Risk, the other in Actuarial Function and people go for it there.
Hey can you tell me more about market risk profile as in what kind of work does a MR analyst does day to day.
Would be helpful
Thanx.
@@nirajpatil8805 mostly checking liquidity risk so checking market daily fluctuations
Hey Dimitri,
thanks for sharing your view on this. I somewhat agree. I think those certifications mostly serve as a signal to potential employers that you are willing to obtain the foundational knowledge to break into the field. I got my FRM title and currently studying for CFA Level 3, and honestly, the biggest value I see in them is the idea that I do not have to research the topics to study by myself. Other than that, you pretty much have general knowledge of the topic rather than become a specialist.
But then again, the same could be said about any degree/certification.
The one thing that I find interesting though is the continuing education portion of it. I feel like I'm forced to learn on a continuous basis.
Anyways, just my two cents on that.
Is the CFA worth it ? Given the amount of time commitment
Ahoy, An earnest sidenote :
Take a rigorous course of Category theory before delving into pure maths for quantative finance.
Category Theory (Compulsory)
Abstract algebra
(Groups + Rings + Fields)
Real analysis
Complex analysis
Functional analysis
(optional yet pivotal)
Measure theory
Stochastic differential equations.
All aforementioned should be practiced rigourously.
Dimitri ...you should keep in mind that the Curriculum has changed a lot since you sat for the exam.
even if you take a masters degree in programming you still need to do a lot of research and a lot of self learning.
Hey Dmitri why do you pretend to be a mathematician man? Aren't you a econ and finance grad from UMichigan? Number theory at work lol. Pretty sure you're middle office risk.
Stop value judging work descriptions. Everything mathematical is going to be contained within the ML algorithms very soon. The only human differentiation is creativity and that comes from all range of skills whether FRM or math or science or physics. Also try and keep the misleading to a minimumany serious quant sees right through you. I feel bad for early starters and students who fall for snake oil salesmen.
Finally somebody said it loud! He has no math degree and used to work in risk/validation.
CAIA? How about MSc financial mathematics from Edinburgh university?
Guy is tilted
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