Thanks for that. Very much fits with my experience & I’ve owned a Tiki 30. I luv the simplicity.....& the price. I feel a bit more like Thor Heyerdahl or James Wharram on my povo boat. Going basic feels more like an adventure for me.
Thanks for sharing. We'd like a Cat but with a $90k budget for a small family boat to cruise the Mediterranean for 2 or 3 months a year - we can either buy from a fleet of hundreds of circa 2000's 45 foot production monos or the choice of two cats - a 1996 35 foot FP Tobago or a 2000 Gemini 105MC. At this price for largely coastal, some overnight work it's hard to make the case. Also in the Med it seems less chance for mooring (on such a small cat can we carry enough to be self sufficient?) and marinas I've checked with are all asking 1.5x fees. Still looking but don't see anything like your Wharram we could afford to buy and run. Be delighted to hear otherwise :-)
Thanks for the time to ask. Affordable cats are hard to find. Certainly a lot more choice in monohulls. Have you tried asking on some of the Wharram UA-cam forums? I do see a few Wharrams come up for sail, and in your price range, most do sell fairly fast tho. As to supplies, I think the biggest hurdle will probably be enough fresh water to drink and wash with. Four people on board and you will need to hit the shore to top up the tanks. Wish you all the best in your search and adventures.
There's something profoundly mentally pleasing to me in terms of spending extended lengths of time in a place (vessel, home, retreat, where or what ever) that has its space distributed in a variety of smaller, sprawling, interconnected spaces versus one or fewer larger spaces. I'd far rather stay in a rabbit warren than in a studio of the same surface area. I get a little mild "cabin fever" or "claustrophobia" in a large room as much as a small one over time, and on a cat there's this sense of leaving this space and going over to that space, even if they're small. Even if there's as many rooms in a mono I still "know" there's just a wall between me and the room I just left by just walking around it instead of going to a different area. I know it's all in my mind, but isn't everything, really. It's just an instinct-based preference. Also, I have no need for a bunch of, to me, wasted walking space around the sides of my bed and, in fact, I've always loved sleeping or reading etc. in a sort of encapsulated bed area other's might feel is a "coffin".
I totally get where you're coming from. From a building or community perspective, there is a fantastic book called A Pattern Language. Really helped me when we designed and built our own house. Also helps me define what is was that made a "place" feel just right. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Pattern_Language
How did you carry out the ship inspection (Japan Craft Inspection Organization) when you brought the ship to Japan? I'm Japanese and I'm considering buying a sailing ship abroad.
Thanks for the question. No inspection required as is not a Japanese registered boat. Tiare is a New Zealand flagged vessel. If I did want to flag her as a Japanese vessel, I would need to import her, I.e. pay the import tax, then approach JCI, they would set up a time to visit the boat, look at the build papers etc. Then they will make a determination on her ability to stay afloat with people on board. Is not too difficult but does need some planning before you start the process.
@@sks6907 Hi, I know it has been done but do not have any direct experience with this. The Fb group “Sailing in Japan” does have some discussion on this.
Great discussion. Of course we are bias and there are points that can be made for both sides. I think you give an honest point of view. I especially like the Wharram designs for their simplicity and lower maintenance.
Building SV Satoshi. Thanks for the comment. That will possibly have to wait for the weather to warms up. Next week will be on we have managed to earn money as we have cruised.
Hi lucky, Thanks for the comment. Will do an episode just on Tiare, but will be a month or so away. Am just finishing off an electrical job on another catamaran. Been dealing with Carpel Tunnel Syndrome (bad hands) which gives me the choice of either work or video editing, but not both. Will do a full tour of Tiare under sail and a walk around.
So glad I found your channel. I have more confidence looking at Wharrams now. The only other channel I could find was Lucky Fish but that is a small cat. Thanks for making these videos.
Thank you for these in some way new arguments. What is wrong to me is the thing a cat is sinking slower. As the trough hull has a typical size for both monohull or cat, the volume filled per minute is the same. With the smaller hull volume the hull fills up a lot faster and there's even less time to act, as it becomes harder to plug the hole the more water is in there. Still I'll also have a Cat.
FWIW: I grew up in Florida. When I was a kid, I would occasionally see news reports about boats that sank. Being a kid, I would think to myself: _Why don't they just make boats out of STUFF that DOES NOT SINK?_ 'Nuff said....
MiQ Bohlin. Thanks for the comment. Not a fan of the editing either. But was a single take nearly an hour long and had to cut it down. I need to learn how to speak clearly, take pauses and give the camera a second or so between sentences.
You say that your had limited experience prior to sailing? 1. Had you sailed/helmed a larger type vessel prior to yours 2. Did you buy the Wharram in NZ and sail up with the family? 3. Did you do any schooling prior to sailing yours? 4. I think my biggest worry is coming home to nothing, does that worry you? Thanks.
Hi Aston, I had experience sailing before on other peoples boats but was 25ish years previously. Does a 3.4 meter dinghy count? Tiare is the largest sailboat I had been on/owned. Bought Tiare in Thailand, no way we could have sailed out as a family from NZ, too cold. No schooling prior, learnt on the spot, luckily Wharrams are very forgiving and Thailand very warm. Coming home to nothing, need to define "home". Home for me is where my heart is at. Mainly family, and that's very mobile. Plus we can't take stuff with us when we depart. I do miss the house I built and the land around it but that's because it's winter now and I'm cold and miserable and I can't work on Tiare (too cold), that will change very soon. Feel free to ask questions, I enjoy answering them.
Go Sea Camping thank you, my Asian wife is aware of my desire to do what your doing, but being work driven she’s in her comfort zone so to speak. We only have one son who is quite self reliant so study would be a breeze. He said to me this morning, I could learn the oboe from UA-cam while I’m on board dad’ I’m thinking, yeah great attitude.
Great vid thanks, I notice from one of your vids that you have large engine's rather than the standard retractable outboard engines, may I ask why and did you retrofit and what are your opinions on both systems, thanks in advance.
Tony O Reilly thanks for the thanks :) Simple answer Tiare came with them, we’re the second owners. I don’t know the reason why they chose diesel motors over outboards. Personally I’m very happy they did, diesel is a lot easier and safer to handle and store.
Hi, thanks for the reply, are your props retractable and may I ask what size tanks you carry and therefore your range under power? I love your boat by the way.
Yes they lift up. Sonic drive Mk2 by silloutte? UK company. 100 liters each side and motors, I allow for 2.5 lites per hour. Range hmmm depends on speed but we allow 5knts per hour in easy seas. Plus we do carry an extra 200l in jerry cans if we think we might need.
Thanks for the comment Yes it is a two masted catamaran, closer to a schooner as both mast are around the same height. Not so many designs like this, but has the advantage of lower center of gravity for stability and smaller sails for same given area, which means smaller and lighter gear, so easier handling and cheaper replacements.
Hi Chas, Quite a few I think. Depends on the definition I guess. One definition “A cutter is a single-masted boat, with two or more headsails”. So I guess most cats that have least two or more jibs would be classed as cutter rigged. Quick search on google throws up quite a few. Tiare is also a twin masted cutter rig.
Thanks for the comment. Couldn’t agree more with the comment. It is such a personal choice and so many variables. Personally I love the lines of a classic working monohull, the heart almost aches at the sight of a Bristol Channel Pilot in full sail, yet sailings the tropics in one would be a nightmare. Would be akin to living in an oven. The comparison was really my own very biased opinion.
Go Sea Camping yes I agree it depends on application. If I’m sailing from one sunny anchorage to another then the party barge Cat is the choice but if I want to cross the North Sea give me a Hallberg Rassy.
It’s the cold that puts me in a monohull. It’s almost impossible for a cruising cat to keep all three sections at a comfortable temperature. Similar at the tropics, keeping a mono’s temperature down is very energy intensive.
Thanks for taking the time to comment. Monohull certainly not worthless. Given a “money no problem” choice I am 50/50. Garcia Exhibition or a Bristol Channel Pilot are my dream choices.
Catamaran design 1000 ad pleasant 500 year window of pleasant weather Polynesian exploration of Pacific weather changed 1500 ad alot were lost at sea cut of communications from the many islands .Whats she like on coastal cruise 3.5 m swell sw se 3o Knts running up the West coast of Australia 5
He clearly more bias toward cats..and keep comparing to a bigger mono..how could you figure out that servicing two engines is cheaper?? Yes cheaper compare to a bigger mono with 500 hp engine. Hehehe cats sink faster than mono..if one side sink, the other side will be drag into the deep waster than you could figure out what happen. Nice try to be professional bro..you full of bollock too.
Putera Usman you obviously know nothing about cats. Monohulls sink, cats do not. They are positively buoyant. You can cut a hole in the bottom of both hulls and it won’t sink. As for flipping, today’s design means that cats hardly ever flip. You would have to be doing something totally stupid and get hit by a freak wave to turn one over. Downside is they do not flip back. But in saying that you are quite safe in an upturned cat due to the air pocket. As for engines, most cat owners only use one engine at a time. You only lose around 1-1.5kns speed on one engine. Maintenance is the same if use this way. Added bonus is you have a spare engine if one fails and twin engines are handy for manoeuvring into a birth. A cat can spin 360deg on axis simply both using opposite forward reverse.
Thanks for that. Very much fits with my experience & I’ve owned a Tiki 30. I luv the simplicity.....& the price. I feel a bit more like Thor Heyerdahl or James Wharram on my povo boat. Going basic feels more like an adventure for me.
Thanks for sharing. We'd like a Cat but with a $90k budget for a small family boat to cruise the Mediterranean for 2 or 3 months a year - we can either buy from a fleet of hundreds of circa 2000's 45 foot production monos or the choice of two cats - a 1996 35 foot FP Tobago or a 2000 Gemini 105MC. At this price for largely coastal, some overnight work it's hard to make the case. Also in the Med it seems less chance for mooring (on such a small cat can we carry enough to be self sufficient?) and marinas I've checked with are all asking 1.5x fees. Still looking but don't see anything like your Wharram we could afford to buy and run. Be delighted to hear otherwise :-)
Thanks for the time to ask.
Affordable cats are hard to find. Certainly a lot more choice in monohulls.
Have you tried asking on some of the Wharram UA-cam forums?
I do see a few Wharrams come up for sail, and in your price range, most do sell fairly fast tho.
As to supplies, I think the biggest hurdle will probably be enough fresh water to drink and wash with. Four people on board and you will need to hit the shore to top up the tanks.
Wish you all the best in your search and adventures.
There's something profoundly mentally pleasing to me in terms of spending extended lengths of time in a place (vessel, home, retreat, where or what ever) that has its space distributed in a variety of smaller, sprawling, interconnected spaces versus one or fewer larger spaces. I'd far rather stay in a rabbit warren than in a studio of the same surface area. I get a little mild "cabin fever" or "claustrophobia" in a large room as much as a small one over time, and on a cat there's this sense of leaving this space and going over to that space, even if they're small. Even if there's as many rooms in a mono I still "know" there's just a wall between me and the room I just left by just walking around it instead of going to a different area. I know it's all in my mind, but isn't everything, really. It's just an instinct-based preference. Also, I have no need for a bunch of, to me, wasted walking space around the sides of my bed and, in fact, I've always loved sleeping or reading etc. in a sort of encapsulated bed area other's might feel is a "coffin".
I totally get where you're coming from. From a building or community perspective, there is a fantastic book called A Pattern Language. Really helped me when we designed and built our own house. Also helps me define what is was that made a "place" feel just right.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Pattern_Language
Areu Sirius to me the space around the bed is very important. It’s too painful to make a bed against a wall etc and getting in an out.
How did you carry out the ship inspection (Japan Craft Inspection Organization) when you brought the ship to Japan?
I'm Japanese and I'm considering buying a sailing ship abroad.
Thanks for the question. No inspection required as is not a Japanese registered boat. Tiare is a New Zealand flagged vessel.
If I did want to flag her as a Japanese vessel, I would need to import her, I.e. pay the import tax, then approach JCI, they would set up a time to visit the boat, look at the build papers etc. Then they will make a determination on her ability to stay afloat with people on board. Is not too difficult but does need some planning before you start the process.
@@SeaJapan Thank you very much for your quick reply.
Is it realistic to make the flag state of Japanese-owned yachts foreign? Is it possible to have New Zealand or Australia as the flag state?
@@sks6907 Hi, I know it has been done but do not have any direct experience with this. The Fb group “Sailing in Japan” does have some discussion on this.
@@SeaJapan Thank you for the information.
I will look into that group.
Great discussion. Of course we are bias and there are points that can be made for both sides. I think you give an honest point of view. I especially like the Wharram designs for their simplicity and lower maintenance.
Still thinking how I'll put together a video on why we chose a Wharram, certainly simplicity and ease of maintenance factored into it.
I am interested to see that video too :)
Building SV Satoshi. Thanks for the comment. That will possibly have to wait for the weather to warms up. Next week will be on we have managed to earn money as we have cruised.
Could you tell more us about your Wharram...How does it sail... Its the most beautiful of all designs....
Hi lucky,
Thanks for the comment. Will do an episode just on Tiare, but will be a month or so away. Am just finishing off an electrical job on another catamaran. Been dealing with Carpel Tunnel Syndrome (bad hands) which gives me the choice of either work or video editing, but not both. Will do a full tour of Tiare under sail and a walk around.
So glad I found your channel. I have more confidence looking at Wharrams now. The only other channel I could find was Lucky Fish but that is a small cat. Thanks for making these videos.
Thanks for the comment. Back to posting videos. Any questions just ask and I'll see if I can work them into an episode. cheers
Thank you for these in some way new arguments. What is wrong to me is the thing a cat is sinking slower. As the trough hull has a typical size for both monohull or cat, the volume filled per minute is the same. With the smaller hull volume the hull fills up a lot faster and there's even less time to act, as it becomes harder to plug the hole the more water is in there. Still I'll also have a Cat.
Thanks for the time to comment. Good point.
FWIW: I grew up in Florida. When I was a kid, I would occasionally see news reports about boats that sank. Being a kid, I would think to myself: _Why don't they just make boats out of STUFF that DOES NOT SINK?_
'Nuff said....
They did, it was called wood :)
Very informative, thank you.
Thank you
I propose a Third option! The Proa!
Ship ahoy m8, your sound effects made me really happy! 😃 Good explaining of your views! 👍
A slightly too rapid editing for me, but also fun to see. 🏎️
MiQ Bohlin. Thanks for the comment. Not a fan of the editing either. But was a single take nearly an hour long and had to cut it down.
I need to learn how to speak clearly, take pauses and give the camera a second or so between sentences.
You are doing fine! I reckon it takes it's time to find the "profile" you like and want to stay to 😉
You say that your had limited experience prior to sailing?
1. Had you sailed/helmed a larger type vessel prior to yours
2. Did you buy the Wharram in NZ and sail up with the family?
3. Did you do any schooling prior to sailing yours?
4. I think my biggest worry is coming home to nothing, does that worry you?
Thanks.
Hi Aston, I had experience sailing before on other peoples boats but was 25ish years previously.
Does a 3.4 meter dinghy count? Tiare is the largest sailboat I had been on/owned.
Bought Tiare in Thailand, no way we could have sailed out as a family from NZ, too cold.
No schooling prior, learnt on the spot, luckily Wharrams are very forgiving and Thailand very warm.
Coming home to nothing, need to define "home". Home for me is where my heart is at. Mainly family, and that's very mobile. Plus we can't take stuff with us when we depart. I do miss the house I built and the land around it but that's because it's winter now and I'm cold and miserable and I can't work on Tiare (too cold), that will change very soon.
Feel free to ask questions, I enjoy answering them.
Go Sea Camping thank you, my Asian wife is aware of my desire to do what your doing, but being work driven she’s in her comfort zone so to speak. We only have one son who is quite self reliant so study would be a breeze.
He said to me this morning, I could learn the oboe from UA-cam while I’m on board dad’ I’m thinking, yeah great attitude.
Great vid thanks, I notice from one of your vids that you have large engine's rather than the standard retractable outboard engines, may I ask why and did you retrofit and what are your opinions on both systems, thanks in advance.
Tony O Reilly thanks for the thanks :)
Simple answer Tiare came with them, we’re the second owners. I don’t know the reason why they chose diesel motors over outboards. Personally I’m very happy they did, diesel is a lot easier and safer to handle and store.
Hi, thanks for the reply, are your props retractable and may I ask what size tanks you carry and therefore your range under power? I love your boat by the way.
Yes they lift up. Sonic drive Mk2 by silloutte? UK company. 100 liters each side and motors, I allow for 2.5 lites per hour. Range hmmm depends on speed but we allow 5knts per hour in easy seas. Plus we do carry an extra 200l in jerry cans if we think we might need.
I'd love to have a Wharram.
I'd love you to have one:)
Is that a catamaran ketch? Can’t say I’ve ever seen one of those
Thanks for the comment
Yes it is a two masted catamaran, closer to a schooner as both mast are around the same height. Not so many designs like this, but has the advantage of lower center of gravity for stability and smaller sails for same given area, which means smaller and lighter gear, so easier handling and cheaper replacements.
HOW many cutter cats are there???
Hi Chas,
Quite a few I think. Depends on the definition I guess. One definition “A cutter is a single-masted boat, with two or more headsails”. So I guess most cats that have least two or more jibs would be classed as cutter rigged.
Quick search on google throws up quite a few.
Tiare is also a twin masted cutter rig.
@@SeaJapan yeah twin masts ,would be my definition hehe BUT thats a schooner
So Cat vs Mono is basically Car vs Bike.
good comparison
haha, quite possibly!
i'm building a tiki 26
Yep cats are better moored at the marina :- 1 You can get a better monohull for the price of a cat
That is so true.
Was this a useful comparison ? “ well yes and No”. Lol
Thanks for the comment.
Couldn’t agree more with the comment. It is such a personal choice and so many variables. Personally I love the lines of a classic working monohull, the heart almost aches at the sight of a Bristol Channel Pilot in full sail, yet sailings the tropics in one would be a nightmare. Would be akin to living in an oven. The comparison was really my own very biased opinion.
Go Sea Camping yes I agree it depends on application. If I’m sailing from one sunny anchorage to another then the party barge Cat is the choice but if I want to cross the North Sea give me a Hallberg Rassy.
It’s the cold that puts me in a monohull. It’s almost impossible for a cruising cat to keep all three sections at a comfortable temperature. Similar at the tropics, keeping a mono’s temperature down is very energy intensive.
This seems very biased towards a catamaran. Guess a monohull is worthless.
Thanks for taking the time to comment.
Monohull certainly not worthless. Given a “money no problem” choice I am 50/50.
Garcia Exhibition or a Bristol Channel Pilot are my dream choices.
Catamaran design 1000 ad pleasant 500 year window of pleasant weather Polynesian exploration of Pacific weather changed 1500 ad alot were lost at sea cut of communications from the many islands .Whats she like on coastal cruise 3.5 m swell sw se 3o Knts running up the West coast of Australia
5
He clearly more bias toward cats..and keep comparing to a bigger mono..how could you figure out that servicing two engines is cheaper?? Yes cheaper compare to a bigger mono with 500 hp engine. Hehehe cats sink faster than mono..if one side sink, the other side will be drag into the deep waster than you could figure out what happen. Nice try to be professional bro..you full of bollock too.
Putera Usman you obviously know nothing about cats. Monohulls sink, cats do not. They are positively buoyant. You can cut a hole in the bottom of both hulls and it won’t sink.
As for flipping, today’s design means that cats hardly ever flip. You would have to be doing something totally stupid and get hit by a freak wave to turn one over. Downside is they do not flip back. But in saying that you are quite safe in an upturned cat due to the air pocket.
As for engines, most cat owners only use one engine at a time. You only lose around 1-1.5kns speed on one engine. Maintenance is the same if use this way. Added bonus is you have a spare engine if one fails and twin engines are handy for manoeuvring into a birth. A cat can spin 360deg on axis simply both using opposite forward reverse.
@@DanKon75 + 1. Good answer to a guy that thinks with his heart, not with his brain.
Dan221075 exactly correct 👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼
Rui Carvalho you’re comment is rude and unhelpful. Cyber bully ☝🏽