Disaster - Moorgate train disaster - 28/02/1975
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- Опубліковано 20 січ 2018
- Documentary about the Moorgate train disaster that occurred on 28th February 1975 at 0846. 43 people died in the crash and another 74 were injured. The extrication was a slow and complex operation which took several days.
I like the way this documentary is done. No overdramatic narration. No incessant background music or fancy special effects.
You mean like a shitty American documentary. Yeah, me too.
It is a very British documentary.
And the music is always either over dramatic Action movie music, or Trance, and they never hire a narrator with a good voice anymore. They deceased guy who did forensic files was awesome, so is/was the guy who did trains unlimited, apparently he voices a lot of animated shows as well.
If I wanted intense action music I'd watch A big budget action movie, and If I wanted Trance I'd watch a Dash Berlin concert.
Thing is, there was a bbc 2 series called disaster in the late 90s. Narrated by John nettles. But can’t find any sign of it.
Imagine this on US news - every channel has lengthy interviews with their own fat woman, who claims to be a victim, because she was five blocks from the crash.
I was on that train, aged 11. I should have got off at Old Street to go to Moorfields Eye Hospital, but I wasn't used to travelling on my own. My father couldn't get away from work that day to go with me. It was awful. I was lucky with just a dislocated hip and concussion.
I can't imagine how scary that must have been. Glad you escaped with minor injuries, but the memories must be long lasting.
You was a very lucky child,hope you managed to carry on with your life with not to much shock..Its frightening when you was not use to travelling by yourself at that age,did that make you scared of trains after that or did you recover.Glad you survived you had someone watching over you. :)
@Alastair - A lot of people came off worse than you, it's terribly true, but an 11 year-old-boy alone, dazed from concussion, trapped in the dark (I presume) for god knows how long, death and suffering all around, the stifling heat, the smell of something burning (again, I presume), and in severe pain - your luck was in surviving, but you certainly didn't get off lightly. I understand a hip dislocation can be extremely painful, and the psychological ordeal at that age must have been staggering. Children are generally more resilient, but the event itself is something I think adults might be more able to understand and cope with if they were alone, and your emotional trauma must have been on par with some of the worst injuries. I guess what I'm saying is that it terrifies me to think of a boy alone going through this, and to remind you that your trauma was very serious and no less legitimate. I hope you were able to cope well. If so, you're a stronger man than I am. And I hope you didn't, as they say, have to "grow up too early" after this. There's a lot of childhood left after 11.
@@54marguerite I was in a small camper van that rolled over in the snow when my grandfather fell asleep at the wheel. I was very young, maybe 3, and I could not ride on a city bus without crying the whole time in terror on my mother's lap. I remember screaming to her not to make me get on the bus, but it was our only transport, and she was a single mother. I feel more sorry for her than for myself in hindsight. This was several times each week. I got over it in a year or two, but every time the bus turned a corner, I thought it was going to roll over. And not one of us (3 kids, 3 adults) was even injured in the camper van. That was nothing compared to this tube train disaster. I can't imagine what I would have been like after, especially if I had been alone, even at age 11. I think Alastair was made of stronger stuff than I.
Us Londoners are a tough bunch , I used to get the bus to Walthamstow Central then the tube up west as a kid of 9/10 during the seventies and eighties , always hyper vigilant for suspect devices but never put off of scared out of the capital. I was only tiny when this happened but recall the kings x disaster like yesterday . I live in the West Country now but will always feel proud of the calm, selfless demeanour of my fellow Londoners in times of crisis x
so sorry to hear this , what a horrible experience for you, I remember the crash very well from my childhood , I would be about 7 at the time , dreadful experience , never thought I would talk to a survivor of it..all the best.
I’m amazed at all the survivors and families of survivors and deceased who are here today commenting on this video. The internet is a wonderful thing.
They were fed a load of Bullshit from the managers and the Masons whom run London.
You know that a lot of people saying "I was there" or "my so-and-so was there" are making this up?
This film is circa late 1990s
I miss the old British of this era. No double speak, straight talk, factual and nonsense. Disaster is met with steel resolve and discipline. I applaud all those who did the rescuing, admiration to survivors and their families.
Me too.
@@chrisrey9644 yes remember a lot of terror in the UK was committed by native born citizens.
Glen Atkinson 😂
Well said, good man.
HugsBach fuck you
I was one of the supervisors at moogate for many years,also an ex tube driver and I can tell everyone that driving in tube tunnels for years can have a very strange affect on the mind.especially when tunnel lights are left on as they were on the approach to moorgate. The constant flashing of lights every second past your face can be hypnotic. Also that line is only a ten minute run through 4 stations which is extremely repetitious which driver newson had already done 3 times that morning.this was definitely not suicide, definitely not drunk,definitely not mechanical failure.this was some form of mental malfunction. But London underground bares a large measure of responsibility for not installing speed control equipment as it already had at other locations.
Been watching some tube videos from the drivers point of view, scary how disorienting it seems going through those tunnels...thanks for sharing your experiences.
Thanks for the interesting information. I think perhaps the biggest mistake was the fact that the end wall of the line was black and hadn't been painted a light colour such as white, yellow or orange. The fact that it was black may have misled the driver into believing that another tunnel was ahead of him, instead of the end of the line.
I agree. Even when I was a Guard you sometimes forgot where you were. As a Driver it is so easy to make a mistake, (it only takes a split second), and the results as this accident show, can be catastrophic. Remember poor Leslie had been up early, he had done several trips on a very boring line, he was thinking ahead about buying his Daughter a car, (which rules out suicide), and the tunnel lights were on. As to why he did not put his hands in front of his face there probably was not time when he realised, or even if he did realise, the mistake he had made. And as you quite rightly point out, if LT had installed timed trip devices at passenger dead end platforms, as they had in reversing sidings after the Tooting Broadway incident, the accident would have been prevented.
there's a famous sci fi movie called the andromeda strain where the blinking light of an alert freezes a scientist momentarily , pretty sure this might well have occurred here
I have read about this accident before and nowhere was the human perspective from people actually working there. What you just said makes total sense and Drs should listen to you!
Something I've noticed - You had a police officer covered in dirt, clearly he'd been down to the scene of the incident and he is giving a very clear, calm and good statement. Today you'd have some media liaison person who wouldn't be giving out accurate information, who wouldn't have been on the scene and who was there just for the press. Have we moved backwards?
I am sorry but I'm gonna need to arrest you for independent thought
Think about the impact on the officer. They have seen some traumatic scenes and are then expected to deal with the pressure of a press interview.
Back then, the journalists may have been polite and respectful enough to let the policeman make his statement. I doubt the modern press would react the same way.
Having a press officer to guard these guys from journalists' trick questions is a positive thing.
@@zarabada6125 A very good point and one I will admit that I never thought of.
yes, yes we have
@@zarabada6125 I noticed how calm everyone was in the interviews. It was disorienting to see a man with a gash on his head talking about the horrific ordeal. Was the BBC still run by the govt then? As government employees, their culture might have been far more professional than that of the tabloid vultures.
Well produced documentary made with facts, non-gore images, and excellent public services who showed such dignity in their work.
Those poor people. The poor driver. He had no idea what would happen. He had a family. To lose him like that must’ve been a nightmare.
It couldn't possibly have been deliberate, because the driver didn't put his hands up in front of his face, which he wouldn't have been able to avoid doing if he had intended to do it.
Not to take away from the severity of the incident, but that Peugeot advert brought back some memories
Haha right?
I was employed as a Paramedic in the London Ambulance Service at Waterloo, Brixton and Deptford from 1988, now retired and worked alongside many crews that were at Moorgate in 1975. Their memories of that day were shocking. Having picked up pieces of people struck by trains, I cannot imagine what it must have been like at Moorgate, to see it on that scale and in those conditions. Unfortunately if you work in any of the 3 emergency services in Central London it is only a matter of time before you deal with a major incident.
Exactly. And for those troubled folk who think jumping in front of a train is a solution to their problems, it has to be said the trauma to the train crews and emergency service people can be the start of loads of lifelong problems for them.
Spare a thought for the firemen who literally had to pick up the pieces.
Most of those I know are used to that, weekend car crashes, suicides on railway tracks etc. Well, more or less "used to that" of course....
@@Retroscoop They are far stronger and braver than I've ever been in my life. My thanks for all firefighters everywhere.
@@Retroscoop They are not ''used to it'' they are professionals, they deal with incidents they train for, and just get on with it. It's afterwards when they do a critical incident debrief that what happened is analysed to find what went well, what didn't go well and what can be improved.
I was a Fire Fighter for over 30 years, and still have some terrible memories of incidents.
I knew guys that were station staff back in the day that would help pick up the pieces off the tracks from suicides and accidents before protocols changed.
hats off to those guys
My Dad worked for London Underground at the time of the Moortgage crash, and though not directly involved, he was able to obtain inside information and access to the site. He said it was total carnage, and the working conditions for the rescuers were terrible. I'll never forget how it dominated the news in London for weeks afterwards.
"Dead Man's Handle" still held by the hand of a dead man, appropriately.
Me and my mates used to bunk on that train when we were about 11 years old (1957). We lived near Essex Road Tube Station, would sneak in then run down the long spiral staircase to the platform, get on the train and stand behind the drivers door. We could see through the doors air vents as it went along. The next station was Old Street, quite a distance, and the train would go very fast and quickly slow up when it got there. Next station was Moorgate, but the train never went fast as it wasn't very far away from Old Street. Terrible accident, hope all those that died found Peace
I remember this awful accident when I was a lad - and I distinctly remember the news sources at the time seemed to go out of their way to pin the blame solely on the shoulders of the driver - saying he was drunk and or that he’d fallen asleep, etc - even then I was aware that something didn’t add up by the way they tried to hold the poor driver accountable - I felt he was being stitched up cos he was dead and couldn’t therefore defend himself. RIP to those who perished.
Riki Newton yes I agree with you thought samething myself.my heart went out to all of them especially his family.
They said alcohol in drivers body but if you been dead for sometime alcohol will show in body it natural thing..I not sure but I think he not dishonerated and LT took blame i hope that is the case
I wonder if the poor man had a stroke or a massive coronary.
I believe he had a massive stroke which caused the tragedy. I was a first responder as a Military Policeman in Arizona and we had permission to be first responders off post. This was before the jaws of life. We had to use our bare hands to extract people and bodies. The worst one that I had was a four year old girl in the back seat of a car with her mother's decapitated head on her lap. She had her arms and legs broken and was pinned between her dead grandparents and dead parents in the front. It took us three hours to extract the unfortunate child while the drunk driver that killed the family had a few scratches. The worst was having to ask the girl what her mother's name was, and she replied:'Mummy.' and her father was , 'Daddy.' And the drunk was wandering around wondering where his car was. I truly had to fight the urge to empty my Colt .45 into him. I can still see it and hear the girl whimpering as if it were yesterday. It was nearly 50 years ago.
In the mid 80s when I did my train crew courses we were told that alcohol had been ruled out and that the exact cause remains unconfirmed
Carlton Poindexter - what a truly awful situation you had to deal with there - I cannot imagine how seriously traumatic it would’ve been for the poor little girl and your good self. I admire you lots for reliving your experiences here by way of your comment - thank you for sharing - all the best from England 🏴. Rx
When driving a truck I once had about a 5 mile stretch I could not account for. I was here & then I was there with no memory inbetween. When you do the same task over & over it can happen. It isn't daydreaming or fatigue, you would remember that. It is like you switched off went 5 miles & switched on again with no explanation. And your like how did I just do that? I can only explain it as going into physical autopilot.
SuperBigblue19 Been there.
Called a microsleep. In Australia it is a major cause of highway fatalities. You only have to tune out for a few secs and bang. Sometimes you get away with it sometimes not.
I have heard having the window closed with Air con on makes that fatigue worse . I always move arms and legs and crack the window ajar slightly
many years ago I was riding a motorcycle and I found myself behind a truck minus a gauntlet. don't know how I never fell off
I had this happen while walking in the mall during lunch hour. One minute I was on one side of the mall, the next I was on the other. I had no recollection of the walk in between.
I used to work in 55 Broadway, the 'Ivory Tower' as it was referred to by London Transport staff. 1984 to 1985. 3rd floor: Staff office, Railways.
I was responsible for replacing staff spouse passes.
One day at work, a widow of a train driver came to me with her old pass for renewal. I took her old pass and chatted cordially (as well las a 19 year old can) and completed her new pass. After she left my company I got a dig in the ribs from a colleague.
" Do you know who that is?"
"No" I replied.
"That's Mrs Newson, widow of Train driver Newson.....he drove his train into the wall at Moorgate? The Moorgate disaster!" I was genuinely shocked! Especially as I watched the news unfold as a child years earlier. TV News was much more ….'graphic' with it's images in those days. That poor woman :(
More graphic in those days? I'm surprised.
I have always thought UK TV news and documentaries were quite a bit more graphic in the 70s. I think it's best you didn't know who she was. For me it would be difficult to treat her nonchalantly, and I'm sure the last thing she wanted ten years later was more odd looks and sympathy everywhere she went from people she didn't know. She had to move on.
It was nice of London Transport to renew her pass. Was that office policy, renewing a pass for the widowed wife of a deceased employee? Or was it only her? That would never do in these days of privatizations, paying for so long to spouses of former employees.
Ingvar Hallström I think the T&Cs have changed some bit on employee benefits, though still very good.
@@ingvarhallstrom2306 My dad retired from British Rail in 1984 and sadly died in 1993. My mum received a good railway widows pension and spouse railcard until her own death last year. My dad spent 42 years employed on the railway. It was standard practice in those days, although I don't know what it's like today.
Speaking cohesively with head wounds...gotta love the British.
The indigenous population that are British. London is like a different country now.
Well the brits of days gone by. Now, only elders are " stay calm and carry on" as Americans admired them. Now many folk expect to be saved.free housing free food. And some come to GB to get free stuff. Yep UsA not behind.
If their upper lip were much stiffer, they would become incoherent. 😋
"British head wounds, Eddie. Best in the world"
@@lynnhauenstein4136 you clearly don't get out often. We still exist
I can remember watching Pride and Prejudice on school TV when the program was interrupted to ask people to give blood due to the crash.
My favorite movie. Have watched it many times. So sorry for the victims of this tragedy.
I remember coming out of Liverpool Street main line that morning, about 9.15. There were no buses on the stand and I overheard an inspector telling some people that there was a problem at Moorgate. As I walked across Moorgate I saw some ambulances and fire engines outside the underground but nothing to suggest that it was serious. Later in the morning I went out of the office and saw the Evening Standard news stands which was my first knowledge of what had accrued. These days it would have been all over social media within minutes.
My Dad was one of the fireman on this job.
When my grandpa was a soldier in WWII stationed in Japan, the only story he ever told one time to my grandma was having to remove bodies from a train wreck.
I remember as a kid, me and my mate would ask a driver if we could travel with him in his cab. Half the time thy let us. This was around 1980 on the Northern and Piccadilly line.
I was on that train. Never forgotten it!
Me too. I was supposed to have got off at Old Street.
So happy your alive
Glad you both survived!
Seems unlikely that you would forget it really?!
How many people passed? I don’t think or I didn’t notice if they said in the documentary
Oh gosh, who remembers when the history channel and the discovery channel were the 2 best channels on the planet.
Is it just me, or has all new documentaries they make now days are too Hollywood style, desperately trying to create drama and suspense, with the whole join us after the break to see if he made it through the fire, bullshit.
Fact is you can't beat the old fashioned British documentaries.
Yup. It all went downhill from that one documentary about "mermaids" with "real footage." It was blatantly CGI and fake scientists marketed as a real story, and people were rightly outraged. It's never been the same since.
There is a great deal of speculation among these comments as to what caused the crash. Some of it is credible, while some is fanciful. The psychiatrist in the documentary clearly states that the most likely cause was a temporal lobe seizure in the driver's brain. I'm going with that.
Put me down for temporal lobe seizure as well. Also, ghost-troll, piss off...
It looks to me that the Driver did have a Mini Stroke/TIA. I've seen that in patients before when having Mini Strokes/TIA attacks. Yes, some people can still "function" somewhat with a TIA attack, but I've also seen people just "freeze" in place with an attack much how he was described. What a tragedy. RIP to all that perished.
That or an absence seizure.
I was thinking he had a seizure of some kind. Seizures can happen at anytime and come out of nowhere.
Either that or a sudden stroke or heart attack that was missed by the autopsy.
@@05017351 q.nqa. q
@@05017351
A meeting to get l go
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Ki99u
Interesting documentary, but those Ads, bring back so many memories!
I googled the Peugeot one because I like the song, this would have aired around 1995 or so.
Sorry for making you feel old 😅
I don't think the Fire Brigade get the recognition they deserve in every day life... trying to blame them for what happened at Grenfell during the enquiry was dispicable...
Now, they won't get in water which is up to their waist, unless they have an appropriate training, covering that level of water. This had happened recently, and the passes by had to rescue someone from water as the firemen refused, on these grounds.
I was thinking temperal lobe seizure. I have them and that's how you would act during them. Fortunately, I've never been driving anything during one.
Debora Henderson ppt of
This honestly fits perfectly with the evidence they have of his state in the footage, plus the evidence that speaks against suicide. Even if he didn’t have any other factors, a suicidal person tends to reach for safety at the last minute, and there was no indication there either. Why wasn’t an autopsy done... or mentioned if it was? That seems like it would answer the questions, or at least eliminate other speculated conditions.
@@ourcorrectopinions6824 how much of his body do you reckon there was left for an informative autopsy when his cab was crushed from 3 feet long to 6 inches long?
People seemed so much more articulate and intelligent in those days.
Yes, they cared about education. Todays illiterate little shits can't/won't even speak or write properly in their own language. Where I live the norm is to use slang and twist the language into some sort of immigrant accent. Even the native kids are doing it and it's destroying the language completely.
No vapid social media to twist warp and dumb them down
Ian Pilkington ‘write properly’
@@UA-cammessedupmyhandle I'm guesssing that was directed at me and not Ian Pilkington, and you're right, it should say 'write properly' but english is not my first language. I will correct it, thank you.
There were also the same sick stupid idiots around around back then, just as today. I recall with horror the sick joke doing the rounds " I thought Moorgate was a dead end till I discovered Smirnoff '
We are not so different today from folks back then, for all we wish we were
The Daily Mail covered a minute-by-minute account of this disaster on 15 February 2020, commemorating the 45th anniversary of the Moorgate train crash. It was from learning of this horrific incident there that led to viewing this very well-produced documentary.
Thank you so much for posting this! I teach an after-school class on man-made disasters to 11-14-year-old kids (in the US), and I've been thinking of including the Moorgate disaster. That Daily Mail timeline is a wonderful resource, and that will make it a lot easier to cover the disaster in my class. Since I'm American, I wouldn't even think to look for such an informative piece in a newspaper published a couple weeks ago, especially a British newspaper that I don't read.
We occasionally make connections on the web that were not intended, but can be really helpful. Thank you, Bruce!
My heart goes to all those who lost their lives that day and were injured. May they rest in peace. I am sure 45 years later their family and friends still grieve and think of them everyday. Such a terrible tragedy. Think of them every time if I travel through Moorgate.
1975 people didn't panic
2007 people didn't panic
Brits, tough as old boots.
Nothing gets Brits excited. That's why British deadpan comedy is the best in the world. Completely understated. (Well, except for Basil Fawlty.)
@@J.G.H. We make money with our hysterics! Lawsuits, books, lecture tours, merch, lotsa ways to make a buck if we can persuade people we've been victimized. And no, I'm not bragging!
@@J.G.H. It's to do with our 'Island mentality'.......which the Japanese also have.
@@beenaplumber8379 yep and it is a sad nasty sickness that is unfortunately spreading around the world.
@@robtyman4281 Ooh, talk about a stoic people! But then, have you ever seen an old Godzilla film? :-D
@cplcabs It's a very complex problem too. What's the remedy for it? How do we take the profit out of it? I think we, as ordinary members of our societies, need to quit giving them an audience first, stop buying their books, stop watching programs that give them a pulpit, etc., but I'm not sure about letigiousness. (Sorry this got so long, but letigiousness is far more complex than a lot of people appreciate.) I always want to have access to a FAIR court remedy, and efforts to reduce letigiousness always seem to limit that. I think my limited access to the courts is already highly unfair in how limited it is now. Two examples:
As a person with limited income, I can tell you how hard it is to bring a suit even in the most blatant of negligent circumstances that resulted in a bad head injury. My lawyer said I'd probably get nothing because the symptoms of a head injury are so hard to prove. I will (and do) have constant, screaming tinnitus in my ears (which also impairs my hearing, which all sucks as a musician - my hearing is everything!), slight memory impairment (making it difficult to learn new material), and balance problems for the rest of my life, but all of those symptoms can only be verified by my word. I have no objective evidence to show any of this is actually happening in my head. My CT scan at the ER didn't show any fracture or bleeding (thank gawd), so I have no objective evidence of physical damage to my brain as an organ either. All this because of my landlord's refusal to make repairs that had already injured several people over the previous few years (including a ten-year-old girl who was just walking past the place), and which he promised to fix in all 4 years of leases I'd signed with him. And the first thing he did when I got hurt was give me notice, within 12 hours of my discharge from the hospital, to vacate my apartment. "We're concerned you did this on purpose," he said. (He rescinded that notice the next day, but that tells you where his head was at.) After all that, the lawyer recommended to me by the state Bar Association's referral service wouldn't take the case. Even if I did get a settlement, the landlord's insurance would have covered it all, so he wouldn't be out a penny. I dropped the matter and decided I'd just hate him for the rest of my life. (I moved out 8 months later.) It ain't easy to sue someone.
In the second example, I sued a crooked mechanic, and I didn't hire a lawyer. (It's easier to sue in small claims court.) I won the case easily, but getting the court-ordered settlement was impossible. Civil courts are for rich people in the USA. If you can sue, and even if you win, they still don't necessarily have to pay you unless you have the money to make them pay. In my case (in Wisconsin) I would have needed to file a separate (and much more expensive) action with the courts to get an order for payment, which probably wouldn't have resulted in anything because the mechanic's business was all cash, all off the books, so legally he was poorer than I was. (Lesson learned! Oh gawd, lesson learned! Certified mechanics only. If they don't take Visa, the "discount" isn't worth it.)
There is a lot of public misunderstanding and exaggeration of our letigiousness in the US as well. For example, that woman who spilled coffee on her lap at a McDonald's drive through, the appeals court reduced her settlement from something in the millions to something in the thousands, but what a lot of people don't know is that the McDonald's in question had been ordered something like 3 times in the previous year to serve their coffee at a cooler temperature, because it was dangerous at the temperature they were serving it (near boiling). They had numerous warnings, but they did not follow the regulators' orders because they said their customers liked it that hot. So the woman got punitive damages because the business was not only negligent, but in flagrant violation repeatedly. Coffee should never burn someone over such a large area with 2nd degree burns, and as uncomfortable as it is to talk about, burns to a woman's privates are particularly complicated and dangerous. My point in bringing her up is that the perception of the letigiousness of the US is really overstated by anecdotes that are 1) few and far between, though usually famous, and 2) poorly understood. We are letigious, absolutely true, but not as bad as a lot of people think we are.
But something has to be done about "SLAAP" suits (wealthy people and businesses suing poorer people and businesses as a means of intimidation, tying them up in court for years, bankrupting people with legal expenses). Our president has always been an expert at doing that, before taking office anyway. Being sued was never supposed to be a penalty in itself.
I accidentally got on a train going the wrong way the week before the crash and ended up at that dead end tunnel. I always wondered if it was the same driver.
It is the track points that determine the path of a train, not the driver. That is certainly an interesting incident you describe, though, and its occurrence would surely have been relevant to the investigators.
The accident had no bearing on the fact that the Moorgate branch subsequently passed from LT to BR ownership. That was a different matter entirely and was concerned with the improvement and modernisation of the British Rail suburban services serving Kings Cross and introducing a new direct link to the City.
@Heaven leigh taylor Um the OP means they caught the wrong train - ie they caught a train going in the opposite direction than the way they had intended... Very easily done.
Not a train going the wrong way on the tracks.
I was reading this in a book and had to reread it a couple of times because the idea that a train couch was flattened like a drink can was frightening.
The 90s commercials are interesting to see
Back when the Discovery Channel was actually good
Yep. Now documentary’s are produced like their doing a episode of Big brother .
I have seen a doc about this on another channel. The train had a guard on board. He was not in the gaurd's van where he should have been. He was sat in one of the carriages reading a newspaper. Therefore, he couldn't engage the emergency brake when he realised what was happening.
This is part of the reason why emergency brakes on subways and trains are referred to as Moorgate controls.
I was a biochemist doing research at st. Bart's Hospital at the time. Our head, a physician, rushed off to Moorgate to bear a hand. He returned late in the day; his white coat was filthy, and his eyes had seen into the gates of Hell itself. The driver's body was so badly fermented when it was reached that drunkenness could neither be ruled in or out. For months afterwards, few people sat in the front cars of trains.
@@aminawatson5019 Thanks for the interesting if disturbing comment Amina.
Stussmeister This is first time I have ever heard it referred to like that... and unlikely.... the deadman’s handle predates Moorgate by several decades, so I can’t see any rationale for that. Releasing the deadman wether Unintentionally or in an emergency was referred to simply as “dropping the handle” by London Transport train crews.
@@warweezil2802
In the aftermath of the crash, London Underground introduced a safety system that automatically stops a train when travelling too fast. This became known informally as Moorgate protection. - Wikipedia
Ian Wildon: They’re referring to the timed trainstops (mentioned at 25:36), not the deadman’s handle. The train in the Moorgate disaster was fitted with a deadman handle (17:55) but didn’t prevent the accident. As a result they implemented the timed trainstops at terminal stations which will brake you if you’re travelling too fast and so you shouldn’t hit the buffers at too high of a speed if at all.
(Worth noting that at least here, if there's a "control" named after a place, an accident probably happened there to influence its creation!)
I had a lucky escape that day,I was suppose to be on that train the day it crashed,starting a new job but I felt very ill that morning and phoned to say can I start the next day,The next day travelling,I saw all the scene of that terrible crash,something must of saved me from being on that train I believe that is why I was ill that day it happened.It must of been terribly frightening for the people on the train that day and lucky some managed to be saved.
God bless you.
@@peixe-no-pão Amen..
@Big Bill O'Reilly I think Satan does not exist only evil people,God exists in good people..
Just done 2 days sicky for same reasons 👍
Saying 'thank you' doesn't seem enough for these selfless professionals. Can't fathom the chaos and awful conditions. Wonder why the driver sped up instead if slowing down...x
I wonder if he blacked out is that possible,falling heavy to the front,I know they have a dead man handle so could he have squeezed harder,trouble he cannot say what happened.
I'm claustrophobic and imagining this happening is my worst nightmare.
bless you
OMG, I am SO with you sister! I think that every time I hear of trapped miners, people surviving a building collapse and waiting a day or two for rescue while trapped under fallen debris, or the boy who fell down a well... Shoot me now!
Newspaper headline read “Former guard had been driver for five weeks”, so he wasn’t very experienced?
You forget what horrors firemen have to face. Crawling towards them horrifically burnt.
Something about old style documentaries are just great quality they dont simplify anything
You really have to feel for the fireman as well as the victims of this incident. I was a fireman in the city that specialized in accident recoveries and I now own a tow company that does the same. I currently work with the smaller towns around me as the guy they call when they need a heavy recovery vehicle. So we train and work together quite often.
Anyway I tend to look at things differently and try and see what could be done to make things better. In this accident they did the best they could at the time. But since then we now have the hydraulic cutter/spreader nicknamed the Jaws of Life and it would've made all of the difference here. They pretty much had to use hand tools in order to get to those people inside. What took them hours with hand tools would literally take seconds with the jaws now.
Thankfully the technology has come a long way since them!
When did LFB get the jaws? We had them in place here in the US certainly in the late 70s, and I think the early 70s in some departments. (American TV shows from the early 70s show them being used.)
@@beenaplumber8379 I was just thinking the same thing
I was thinking the same, because trying to cut through metal with a hacksaw is one of the most tedious pursuits on Earth, certainly not for the impatient! I cannot imagine the horror of grinding away laboriously through wreckage that never seems to budge, while survivors are begging for help and possibly dying unless you’re able to cut through to them soon... in the dark and in the heat and in the claustrophobia...
The 90's TV experience, complete with the ads. Love it
I used to drive trains for British Rail in and out of Moorgate on class 313’s for years. RIP Dave Hinhaugh! Great traction Inspector.
Did You Like the 313's? Ive ridden them only Twice But Each time they felt so fitting for the line.
Thanks John for providing this to us all
That saucy old couple in the commercials was hilarious.
I was a 17 year-old former country girl in London at the time, using the Tube daily. A couple of weeks after the disaster I was on a very late train (I worked in a theatre) in an empty carriage. It suddenly sped up to three times as fast as I had ever known and was travelling through nothing but dark tunnels, as if it had accidentally taken a loop diversion. I never found out why. It was terrifying.
My thoughts go out to all these people on here with personal experience of the disaster.
What a fascinating and tragic Story! Subscribed The end scene going into to the same end of track tunnel where it happened was very eerie!
Living passengers removed within 13 hrs : ABSOLUTELY HEROIC!!!
Those members of the rescue team should have won an award!
Are you saying they didn't?
I wish, all documentaries were made in such way, full of empathy for the tragedy victims!
Now, there would be blasting music throughout the program, plus a whooshing sound every few seconds with many visual effects!!
Thank you for your high moral standards.
Terrible tragedy. I must admit that the first thought in my head after they had ruled out mechanical error and the fact that the driver's hands were on the controls made me think he had suffered a seizure. My heart goes out to all involved, those hurt, those who died and those left behind and I applaud the emergency services who went in in the aftermath.
Intriguing documentary.Also, I was annoyed at the commercials at first. but they're actually quite charming.
An old school friend of mine became a fireman. Moorgate was one of his first emergencies. I cannot imagine how terrible it must have been for everyone.
Back in the days where nat geo and discovery channel are worth to watch.
Here I am watching it on the 28th of February 2020
what made this crash even worst was that the tunnels were built to main line size
which explains why two cars were found near enough one on top of the other
The chassis are likely steel and bodies aluminium, like water theres a path of least resistance so if the tunnels were only tube sized the following cars would have just telescoped through the front ones and more people would have been killed.
@@tomstech4390 Those tunnels are indeed built to a larger loading gauge. Years after this incident I caught a train from there and it was a British Rail train, not a London Underground tube train. As I was waiting for my train to arrive I looked down the dead end tunnel where this train had crashed.
The old red 1938 stock tube trains were painted steel, it wasn't till the newer silver '59 type stock that unpainted all aluminium became the norm.
@@tomstech4390 I think you're right - maybe, if just from an energy dissipation perspective. The cars were effectively able to double their deceleration distance by stacking, and the concertina deformation might have been limited by the cars pressing into each other. The way it worked out allowed for a gentler energy dissipation from the impact. (Gentle's not the right word I suppose.) I don't know how badly crushed the bottom cars were (vertically) though. That could have been very bad.
i have been using this platform for 11 years not knowing the terrible history of it. it's unbelievable to imagine what has happened on the spot ii embark on the train. may all of them rest in peace.
Wow. This is pause for reflection about safety, and random luck. And I'm appreciative of what those rescue workers all did.
For those asking about the guard, this is from Wikipedia
“Robert Harris, the 18-year-old guard who had started working for London Underground in August 1974, was late and joined the train when it returned to Moorgate at 6:53 am; a driver waiting to go on duty took his place until his arrival. Newson and Harris made three further return trips before the train undertook its final journey from Drayton Park at 8:38 am, thirty seconds late.”
I guess he did not realise what was happening.
When Discovery Channel was worth watching. Excellent documentary.
My mother was in London at that time, she was going back home around that hour too, but in another train. Around a week after, when she returned to Paris, there was still the theory of suicide. She told me the story with a panicked face, like looking at the distance instead of me.
I was on a Circle Line or Metropolitan train that came into Moorgate at 8:45. A policeman came running down the steps near the entrance. I wondered what was going on. It was only when I got to work close to the Bank of England that I found out what happened. The City was quiet business-wise that day, people offering blood if they could. They did not close Moorgate Metropolitan lines station so I managed to get a train home to Royston via Kings Cross. However, on the other platform, weary firemen were taking breaks. Dreadful day!
I went to school with you. Small world lol!
@@sophiecat2161 You did? Give me a few more clues?
The description of temporal lobe amnesia sounds like what my daughter has, Juvenile Absence Seizures. She will just stop, mid sentence, like she's stuck, her mouth and hands will sometimes twitch, but otherwise she's silent and unmoving for around 10 seconds. However, she remains standing or sitting, her body remains rigid. She won't be able to drive a car until we are sure the seizures are gone.
I was 12 when this happened and was my first experience of a disaster being shown on the news, at that age I didn’t really understand what had happened, a few years later when this kind of thing was more prevalent due to advances of tv news reporting it dawned on me how bad Moorgate crash was. Horrendous, and that puts it mildly. I don’t see how the brake system could have been removed intact as was stated by a so called expert, then tested and put straight onto another train and tested again, there is no way that a) the system could not have been damaged significantly and/ or been cut away from the train, and b) given that the system must have been damaged how they could assume that the system was working properly in its condition. The investigators kept stating “in our opinion” that is not proof it is an opinion, sounds like the train service managers were trying to blame the driver from the outset, typical management.
I love your critical thinking - all the way to the very last point. The investigation yielded inadequate evidence, which was not the spin we got from this documentary. But you also have inadequate evidence for your claim that the managers were trying to blame the driver. Oh yes, they had ample motive, and the white collar/blue collar culture was very different in Britain in the 70s. But their opportunity was limited and their means were poor. Motive is not evidence that they were manipulating public opinion to blame the driver. It's a reason to ask the question, but it's not sufficient to give an answer.
Beena Plumber Based on the clear logic of your reply, I want to believe that you were underemployed as a plumber.
I wonder how they could really ascertain that any component of the train was functioning correctly before the crash! They would be mangled beyond recognition after being compressed like that surely? And as for stating that the driver was in a seated position with his hands on the controls at the time of the crash! How could they possibly determine that! He (and his cab) would have been squashed to a pulp with all that weight behind him? I think it is all 1975 bullshit and that is why there was an anti-disclosure order put on some of the report. The powers that be in the 70's were much less honest than they are now.
I think of this everytime I'm at Moorgate.
grahvis same...
It's the same with King's Cross. I can't help thinking about that fire every time I pass through.
I travel to Moorgate everyday and see the platform every day, it’s quite haunting
raphael44ify Ditto.
Very nostalgic to see the car advert for the Peugeot 406 at 14:25. How old is this broadcast, posted in 2018? The narration at 26:25 speaks of "22 or more years ago" - so we are looking at a documentary from around 1997. Still fascinating and informative.
These ads were a right walk down memory lane! Classics!
There's been no comment as to why any passenger used to travelling that route speeding though the station or why the guard never applied the emergency brake once passing at speed over the junction outside of Moorgate, Which would have possibly lowered impact speed to 20mph
It's crazy that there was nothing in place to slow the train down automatically. Even the slightest lapse of concentration or daydreaming (which i can imagine happens a lot down there driving the trains) could result in disaster.
I live in Toronto ,Canada and take the subway 🚇 all the time....I feel safe, but we had a bad accident and people were horrifically injured 🤕 and killed....
Why was a 76 year anti-disclosure court order put on the important parts of the paperwork ?
so people to blame are long dead and get away with it, normally people at the top.
I read about that also, but it is never mentioned in documentaries about this incident. Very suspicious i think!
Missing is the bravery of the passengers some of whom had amputations to get them free
I'm sure one of the amputee's was a WPC.
Reading the comments on this video is almost more fascinating than the video itself, well done as it was. To read experienced from people who were actually there, and from people who worked on the Tube at or around the time of the incident is amazing and adds a whole new perspective to the event.
If I may ask of those who know more than myself, there's one detail I've never been clear on: How experienced was driver Newson in driving this particular route? I ask because I've read plenty of tales and reports of railway drivers, even experienced ones, who were assigned to unfamiliar routes and made costly mistakes as a result. One that springs to mind instantly is the Malbone Street Disaster on the New York Subway in 1918, in which an inexperienced dispatcher with no experience on that line (and barely any experience of driving a train at all) was forced into the cab due to a drivers' strike and resulted in him mistakenly taking a train at 30 mph into a curve rated for only 6 mph. The resulting tunnel derailment, made worse by the use of wooden carriages and improper arrangement of the consist, is still the worst subway disaster in New York's history.
sirrliv not hugely - he’d only been driving the line since January of the same year. Highly recommend you review the official report - an unusually graphic (out of necessity) read for one of these reports, which were compiled by Royal Engineers officers.
www.railwaysarchive.co.uk/documents/DoE_Moorgate1975.pdf
I would add... that he was likely to have worked the line for some time as a guard, and that does develop knowledge of the layout of the line along with speed restrictions etc, also as he would have been a guard/emergency train driver grade back then he would have already had basic driving tuition, and had regular driving trips to maintain the driving part of that qualification, then... after doing his train drivers rules and regs, and train drivers equipment courses at the white city training centre (now demolished) he would have done a few weeks of “job training” under supervision of a Driver/Roadtrainer which was carrying out train driver duties including preparing the train for service and driving in service followed by a practical driving test with an operating manager, followed by road training on the line he would be working to familiarise him with the signals and routes he would encounter , also stock training to familiarise him with the exact type of rolling stock(s) in use on the line. So to call him inexperienced is rather unfair, he was new in his grade maybe but not in a strange environment. (Ex northern line train crew here)
That’s a fair comment Chris - it wasn’t my intention to sell it that way.
In fact one becomes fairly used to braking points, expected speeds etc on regularly used lines even as a passenger, so the idea his route knowledge was inadequate is certainly not the case.
My then husband worked for British Rail in the mid 80's , until getting medical retirement in 1997. He did work as a guard and also as a "Second man" that's to say a Driver's Assistant to give it the proper title, the next step up from a second man was to be a train driver, so if you like a second man was a trainee train driver, he was able to drive with guidance of an instructor driver. He would have to learn a route as a guard, and then again relearn it as a second man . I would imagine London Underground would be similar Driver Newson would had to learned the route as a guard , and then as a driver, so I doubt he would be a fully qualified driver within five weeks. I do know railway colleagues today, ( I did work on the railway myself)and it takes six months to qualify as a driver.
hippymoonchild Different railway... different system. The line of progression used to be you became a guard, which involved instruction in traincrew rules and regs along with train equipment the latter focussing more on “Guards train equipment”, and you did job training both on the guards position and driving on trains in service under the supervision of “road trainers”, after successfully passing your verbal exam, and practical exams both in guards operation and driving (including use of both the EP & Westinghouse brakes) you passed out as a Guard/Emergency Train Driver, because under certain circumstances you could be required to operate the train driving equipment or even drive the train or part of it out of service. On returning to your line you would get road training as both guard and driver and stock training to familiarise you with the specific rolling stock(s) that you would be working. During your time as a guard, you would have regularly scheduled “driving trips” lasting for a few stations, usually it meant you would be driving the train you had been working, while a relief guard covered your guard duties. This was to maintain your driving qualification which would lapse if you went for too long without driving. The school taught systems on a standard rolling stock, (at the time I went through the school both sessions were on 1959 tube stock). As I was at the time to be a District line guard , I did my practical training on D78 and C69&77 stocks.
After a period of time depending on the seniority required for your line and depot, you would be offered an opportunity to attend RTC at White City, to do Train Drivers rules and regs, and Drivers train equipment. You would also do driver practical training on a train in service . After this you would have a verbal exam followed by driving tests on all rolling stocks on your line. As I had moved to the Northern line by the my practicals were on 1959 & 1972 tube stock. After passing the tests your grade was Guard/Traindriver, which meant that primarily you were still a guard, but could be “stepped up” to cover drivers as required, not working under supervision, and on completing a set number of days stepped up (I seem to recall it was around 250days) you were then given full driver grade and would no longer work as a guard. In the case of my depot at Morden, we were always short of drivers so on qualifying in common with others, I was stepped up every day and never again worked as a guard
So a different line of progression to what was then BR.
As I have said elsewhere, the training I recived at WTCT was great, much of it remains in my head more than 25 years since I last worked a train. There is a different training set up now, the old white city centre is gone, there is no guards grade to ground you in the rules and regs before you get “on the front” as we use to refer to it. They even have simulators now where we learned on trains in service. Personally I think the live learning was better, especially as the road trainers were driving daily if they were not supervising so all of your experience was live.
Weird thought,but it's eerie to see the old commercials with those elderly people...they probably are no longer alive.
The most haunting part of this is seeing the driver's body at 17.35, still with his hand on the controls.
Where?
@@PibrochPonder You can quite easily see the drivers body at 17.35
If you look at the stilled zoomed in photograph on screen - with the brightness fully up at 17:44 - then you can see a head just immediately to the left of the police/fire brigade person standing on the train itself.
The top of the head is pointed in the direction of the police/fire brigade official, and appears as though its mouth is open. Its eyes are too dark to be able to see, but you can make out the eye sockets, nose, and open mouth (all to the bottom left of the official's head) - as if it's almost "resting" its head on the official's chest.
A little "pixelly" I'll admit, but if you move your phone/tablet device to make out the figure, you should be able to see it quite clearly.
Yeah I saw it. 😢 rest in peace Leslie Newson. His wife Helen was deveststed.
God, that intro will always send chills down my spine. Anyone know where I could find the music?
I'm curious to know what motivated the headmaster of a school to don a white coat and impersonate a doctor?
They must have caught him and charged him or they would have reported "an unknown man impersonating a doctor".....etc....hope so. Narcissistic sociapath.
There is a condition that affects train drivers whereby the driver goes into a trance. This is the most probable cause of the Moorgate disaster.
I was a police cadet in glasgow...age 16...I remember this well...so sorry for all those involved.
The braking system was an electro pneumatic system and not electro magnetic as described.
Correct. Soon as i heard him say it i knew he was wrong.
I remember that day as if it were yesterday. And not because my grandad died either ( not on the train). The coverage was a lot more graphic than you get these days. A bloke i worked with knew the drivers daughter. She had a breakdown. Her dad had the money on him he was going to buy her a car. People were horrible. They had death threats dog shit put through the letterbox. It was horrible because it wasn’t his fault at all.
So what do you think happened to her dad🤯🤷💯🇨🇦
I think he may have had a massive heart attack. Twenty years ago my daughter’s boyfriend, aged eight at the time, was being driven home by his mum. His mother suddenly groaned, briefly reached out towards her son then half slumped over the steering wheel, fell forward with her foot on the accelerator. By pure chance the road they were on, was on a sharp bend to the left. The car shot up an embankment and then abruptly stopped. Her son ran out of the car screaming and flagged down a motorist who was an off duty paramedic. He examined her and gave cpr but it was no use. At the inquest afterwards they said that she was dead by the time they hit the embankment. It was pure fluke that it happened where it did because they hit the embankment at about sixty miles an hour, it was a gradual slope so there was no impact. They were in fairly slow moving traffic at the time if they hadn’t have been on a bend it’s likely that they would’ve hit the vehicle in front and the subsequent impact would’ve killed the boy too. The woman was physically fit at the time and had shown no signs of ailment or complaints of illness. She was only 32. She was adopted. Many years later her son would track down his birth mother only to find that she too had died of heart failure at an early age as had her mother. After the accident one of the first things the police did was question the boy and his family to find out if his mother had been ‘upset or depressed in any way’. Because of the woman’s young age, was seemingly fully fit, and the fact that it had happened at night, incredibly the first assumption was that it may have been suicide. Although this statement was retracted at the inquest and the correct details made public, this young boy and his family, had to put up with insinuations about his mother for many years. During the post mortem the first examiner somehow missed the large amount of cardiac damage and put her cause of death as ‘natural causes’. This happened within 24 hours of 9/11 and he was suffering from lack of sleep, and pre-occupation, due to trying to contact someone who had possibly been in one of the towers at their collapse (it turned out they were elsewhere). It took a second doctor to discover the obvious damage. Under stress even experienced people can make glaring errors. I think that this has striking similarities with the driver of the Moorgate crash.
I lived inLondon at this time and remember this very well. I think there was a medical incident with the driver. Nothing else makes sense.
well, what about the 'wrong way'-theorie?
and he may have thought hes reaching the next station in early 1minute or so?
not aware of passing moorgate.
refering to the news, that he wasnt that experienced at all.
It would scare the shit out of me if a hand reached out and grabbed me
My first job I was 17 at the time and used to travel to Bank via the waterloo and city line link, to get to the bank where I was a new entrant, I remember vividly that morning lots of other staff colleagues coming into work after 9am all very upset shaken up and clearly showing signs of distress having heard about or been travelling on other tube links nr Moorgate, I didn't use the tube for a long while afterwards.
thank share this video
I was born on the 28th of February 1975, which is strange to think about for me. Though I was born in Australia, so it may have happened afterwards. I feel for all these people.... Just living their lives...
This video doesn't even begin to describe the horror these people went through. We were shown the full unedited LFB video of the incident which was absolutely horrific. I also met a couple of LFB guys at the Fire Services College who were on the incident and the conditions they describe as the job got more protracted just beggar belief. I believe I was extremely fortunate never to have to attend anything on this scale. Some of my jobs were bad enough but I cannot imagine the lingering horrors these guys must still be going through.
I lived nearby, the fire services were outside the station for several nights extracting people. I was only a kid at the time and I remember there were lights and a round rubber kids paddling pool that had been put outside the station that was being used for some reason in the recovery.
I'm sad there's no Seconds before disaster episode of this tragedy...
Me too, but I think it's because there is no clear answer why it happened and seconds from disaster episodes have never been unsolved mysteries I think
Horrible. Those poor people.
Great story telling!!
I was on the train before it, having come to work from my girlfriends, so Moorgate wasn't my usual station. I worked for BT (Post Office Telephones at the time in Bunhill Roow and went out later to queue to give blood. Bizarrely, I can't remember giving any, but the queue was large. Maybe we got turned away.
Wow those adverts were nostalgic!
How were they even able to find the driver if the 16-meter front coach was pushed to 6.1 meter as it says in the inquiry??