Grimm Audio MU1 digital music source
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- Опубліковано 24 лип 2024
- January 2019 Grimm Audio introduced the MU1 music player. At that time I had limited myself to equipment below the € 2000 price point and that was one of the few times I regretted that. Now that the limitation is no longer in place, it’s time for a review.
Contents of this video
00:00 - Intro
00:26 - Start of program
01:07 - Where to use 1
02:51 - Where to use 2
03:41 - The front
04:49 - The rear
09:48 - More background
12:49 - Not just a computer
14:20 - How tested
15:10 - Sound quality
16:31 - The why
17:15 - The near future
19:37 - The wrap
Manufacturer:
www.grimmaudio.com
Equipment lent by:
www.terrason-audio.nl
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About Questions: • About questions
Q&A: Which device is better?: • Q&A: Which device is b... - Наука та технологія
I appreciate very much the way you review, always comparing gears to others already reviewed. This put things in the right perspective since you can clearly understand if something is overpriced or not. Great job as usual, Hans.
😬🙏🏽
Great Grimm MU1 review Hans, thank you! Good that you’ve also addressed the versatility, where the MU1 acts as a digital hub for tv, av, game, etc. And really liked your enthusiasm. Happy listening, you’re in for a treat and probably some late night listening 👍. (The MU1 really keeps amazing me. Then to think that the MU1 is the second best hifi purchase I ever made, with the Grimm LS1 speakers on first place 😉)
Enjoy the music
Thanks for the review. Like a touch of the future is here....👌
You bet
O Descobridor / Cristina Branco - exceptional voice !!! Thank you ! And, yes, I have found a non-remastered CD album ! 😀
👍🏻
Dear Hans! I feel a little bit sad getting slightly less low-budget-audio feed from your trusted hand. But way more happy to see a different word thru your eyes. I wish every audiophile buddies here to have chance getting better and better gear as time goes. And for you, Hans my wish : Enjoy the journey! Karoly from Hungary
I recently did the € 24 DAC, the Singxer DDC, Volumio, Wiim MiniStreamer.....
@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel Dear Hans! No doubt you take special care on affordable gear still. All mentioned videos are seen and highly appreciated. In the name of limited budget and "new - born" audiophiles I am more than grateful for them. On the other hand thank you for widening our horizon with high level devices time to time. Wishing you good Health and fine weekend. K
The combination of the Grimm MU-1 with the Mola-Mola Tambaqui is off-the-charts amazing. The already-great Tambaqui soars even higher when using the Grimm MU-1 world-class embedded clock, when they are connected with a top-notch AES/EBU cable.
That’s a very popular combination in my country
Could you elaborate on that? In what areas does the Tambaqui become better?
Sure. FIrst off, the very best way for you to really know, the answer to your very good and logical question would be for you to give it all a listen for yourself, with your own system. That's so easy to say, and so difficult to do. So, we'll assume that can't happen, at least before a purchase or two. Trust me, I know how it goes.
So, with my own biases and audiophile calibration in place, my own surrounding equipment and own AC power treatments and such in play, here goes. Yep, that a lot of variables already!
I've reached out on several occasions to the folks at Grimm, asking them technical stuff. BTW, they are extremely cordial, responsive and friendly. Long story short, and assuming you are pretty knowledgeable yourself given you interest in this combination, I "believe" that there are two technical areas that the Grimm brings tangible improvements to the already-incredible and world-class Tambaqui.
The Tambaqui DAC boards are in my opinion the very best in the world, or at least right there. The Grimm brings an incredible, fully world-class clock to the party. That clock is also imbedded in the Grimm's AES-EBU outputs that go to the DAC. The Tambaqui uses this clock in lieu of its own. There's the item one upgrade. All the things associated with better clocks apply, but to me it boils down to a sense of the music being totally relaxed, no stress, no edges, just smooth and detailed at the same time. It's hard to describe if you haven't heard it yourself, but once you have, you don't want to give it up.
The Grimm also brings FPGA based upsampling to the party. There is a mind-boggling amount of processing power available in a big FPGA. As good as the Tambaqui's upsampler is, I think the Grimm nudges it out just a bit. I can hear it when I turn it off or reduce the upsampling within the Grimm. Same result though, smoothness, detail, relaxed and non-fatiguing.
Another way to look at it is your own listening. Do you get goosebumps? Just the way a string is plucked, the way a brush hits a cymbal, it's different and amazing with the Grimm Tambaqui combo. Bear in mind, you want a really good AES-EBU cable because it's brining the clock to the Tambaqui party... I use a Black Cat. I also find myself listening to music almost every day for 2-4 hours, and I'm still disappointed (even a bit ticked) that I have to turn it off. I never get fatigued. That didn't use to happen before.
@@daveb1761 3-4 hrs is the warm up time! So you just turn off everything before listening to its full potentials?!
@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel yessss! Nailed it :)
Great review again Hans (not too long for me … 😉). Nice to hear some backgrounds about the people behind Grimm. I experienced this unit several times and it’s SQ amazes me every time (#endgame)!
Good point also about it’s price. People sometimes forget what a real good product is all about. I love my cd-collection (and still buying those discs) but maybe I should start saving that money for this unit…. ☺️.
Keep up the good work! Greetings. Ronald
You can hook up your cd-player and enjoy the quality of the MU1 too.
Nice review as always. I have the feeling that you will very soon exchanging the Auralic G2 and M Scaler for this device. Is my feeling right?
I’m afraid so
Interesting video Hans. Previously you have recommended separated your Roon server and Roon player. In this latest upgrade these are now combined in one unit. Do you think the improvements primarily came from replacing your NUC or the Auralic G2 or was it the Chord Mscaler?
That's a good question. In general I still advise to keep the server and player separate. But the Grimm Audio MU1 surely is an exception because they managed to build a very clean power supply and manage to loose almost all jitter and other mishap in their FPGA board. This is the first streamer I came across that does that excellent. And then you have the advantage of simpler installation and lower risk of things going wrong.
I recently audition this connected to DAVE. I can confirm it beats MScaler.
Is the MU-1 a suitable streamer for a dac that translates all incoming formats to x times DSD like PS Audio or Meitner MA-1v2 DAC's? I own a Meitner MA-1v2 DAC with a Bryston BDP-2 streamer and would like to update the streamer especially for streaming Qobuz. Is MU-1 then a good idea?
Well, I use it with a Chord DAVE DAC that does roughly the same as the PS Audio. And I Love it. The MU1 is a good idea for any digital source, even for the TV sound if your TV has a TOSlink output!
Again a very exciting and informative video, thank you for the professional presentation.
I am planning a hifi system and looking for the last link in the chain, a streamer with integrated or separate DAC.
I don't know what is right for me though.
I listen to CD and would like to stream in addition.
With the streamers and DAC there are oodles of posts and opinions in all price regions.
My chain consists so far of the McIntosh to Focal and the Maranz SA-10.
Mr. Beekhuyzen, can you please give me a recommendation?
Whether Auralic with or without DAC, Lumin, Innous, Denafrips - I come to no conclusion yet.
I do not want to buy oversized but the perfect sound.
THX and Regards
Sorry I don't do personal advice. I just lack the time.
Great review! Any chance you could do a review some day of the newly released Holo Audio Red being fed upsampled content from something like HQPlayer? Thanks!
It is my guess that the Holo Audo Red won't be better than the Magna Mano Ultra mk3 Farad I reviewed last December. Given that I only can do only about 50 videos a year, I have to be picky. HQPlayer is for people that want to dig into the upsampling technology deeper than the average music lover. They will have to find other sources for information.
@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel Fair enough, guess I'll just have to keep checking back :) I'll have to keep an eye out for one of those locally to try out some day. At a glance it appears it (unfortunately) only supports up to 192khz/24 out.
For context: With the Holo May KTE in NOS mode I've found that upsampling to 1.5Mhz via HQPlayer (sinc-Mx filter) is a substantial improvement for most songs compared to feeding in native bitrate (even 192khz/24 native). There seems to be very few endpoints that support that high though. That being said, I haven't listened to a Grimm MU1.
I don't have a definitive reference, but I've read in several different forums/articles that R2R NOS DACs have high frequency roll off at lower sample rates (some say rates lower than 705.6/768k). Would be curious if you've read/heard similar.
Amazing, fantastic review, Hans, and thanks! Now you’ve gotten me tempted to consider moving to this unit since I already have the amazing Tambaqui DAC as well as the Makua preamplifier from Mola Mola. Here’s the big question: I already have the fabulous Sonore Rendu SE which I know you’ve praised and have recommended in the past. So in your opinion, will I hear an audible bump/improvement in SQ if I move to the MU1? 🙏🏻
I’m 100% sure. The Rendu SE is great but the MU1 is again so much better!!!
WOW! And that’s saying so much , especially given that I just had my unit upgraded with the latest (turbo) power supply! And as a courtesy they threw in the latest Syngergistic purple fuse. But Hans, since I’m a numbers guy, could you please quantify the improvement in percentage terms for me? Is it 5% better or more like 10% or more? That would be most appreciated given the substantial cash outlay! Thanks so much, as I trust and value your opinion. @@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel
Very interesting! Could you try the K50 antipodes for comparison? Im sure they'll send you one for review if you ask. Would be very interesting also... Great review! thanks!
Great suggestion!
Very interesting and deep review Hans, as you have us used to. But I have some questions, is the internal SSD accesible with Roon, are the files in the SSD indexed inside Roon, or you have to use the Grimm app to access those files ?
The primary SSD holds the OS and Roon Core that also stores the file index on the same SSD. Optionally you can order a second SSD to store the actual music files on (not the index). That SSD is shared on the network so you can copy your FLAC's or other music files and cover art to. You control Roon from a computer, smartphone or tablet running Roon in the remote mode.
@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel Great, I think this makes it really special in its class. I'm not an expert, but I don't know any other streamer with this capability (roon core).
Great video Hans. Can I ask is the CAT5 LS1 output an I2S output and can this be used with differnt DAC's that support an I2S input ie Dennafrips?? Or am I limited to using the AES output if so can you confirm the speed of the two AES outputs what are their limitations in terms of resolution ie 24 bit 384khz or DSD 256? Also as this is a ROON server will the MU1 output multichannel DSD I see not HDMI output connector? Also can the two AES outputs be configuered as a duel AES output?
The LS1 is a proprietary connection, unique to Grimm and thus can not be used for I²S. I see you seek for higher sampling rates which means you haven't heard the Grimm yet. What the MU1 does at 192 kHz single AES/EBU is so much better than anything I have heard at 768 over I²S and dual AES. Don't be mislead by those numbers, what you want is at best 40 kHz analog bandwidth but with immaculate timing and perfect resampling. But, I agree, it doesn't sound as sexy to your audio friends😄
@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel
Thank you for the feedback Hans I’ll try and get a demo organised I’m very interested to see how this streamer performs.
As Alway Hans Thank You .. i have a NimitraS and an Aries G 2.1 .. use RooN .. a Hugo2 and Holo Audio May KTE .. for DAC’s .. Modright KWH225i Integrated Hybrid Amp, Boenicke W8se+ for speakers .. Silent Angel switch… and Gigafoil V4 filters .. I always listen carefully to your videos
Enjoy the music
Wow just when I thought I was starting to understand the leading edge of digital sound you open up more possibilities! Thank you.
How does this compare to the ultra neo it’s price is an other league I am sure the sound is too?
There is the Ultra Neo, then the Auralic Aries G2.1 and at the top the Grimm MU1. So the Grimm is two classes above the Ultra Neo, sound wise of course. But the Ultra Neo is a network renderer/Roon Endpoint while the Grimm is a Roon Server and Roon Endpoint with integrated scaler and reclocker.
Dear Hans,
Last week I upgraded AN Dac to a Dac builded by Peter v W, it sound incredibly good! I enjoy my audio hobby more than ever and considering the Mu-1.
In the review I was impressed by how the Mu-1 seems te be immuun for noise coming from the Ethernet connection. Does this mean I can sell my modified switch with Lpsu so that I can contribute this to the purchase of the Grimm? Or do you still recommend a some what audiograde network switch?
I don't know your switch of course but I would be surprised if it would make a difference when using the MU-1.
thanks for bringing yet more worthy digital front-end solutions to the menu. based on the SQ that you describe, the
MU1 may indeed be a steal for those who can afford it. try putting together all these features using separate top-quality components (SOtM comes to mind), and one will soon approach or surpass the MU1 price point - and then there are the cables, impacting both cost and untidiness!!! thanks again Hans for keeping us all up-to-date, great review!!!!
My pleasure entirely
@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel I posit that it will be both interesting and helpful to hear your thoughts on other one-chassis digital front ends such as the sonore signature rendu se. it will be an added bonus to hear your opinion as to how they compare with multi-chassis digital front ends such as your own in system 1 and, for those stuck in the digital past, how you think they MAY compare in SQ with the even more expensive separate-based front ends such as SOtM´s and the like, when they are fully decked out (master clocks, DDC´s, etc.). such an approach could provide reference points that just about every one of your followers may be able to relate to. thanks for your great work!
@Dan thanks for all the useful info. since my comment i have acquired both a auralic g2.1 with upgraded power supply and a MU1 for my second and main systems respectively and could not agree more with you: the G2.1 is wonderful , the MU1 came from a different universe and dollar for dollar is the best i sound purchase i ever made.
Any chance you will review Lumin products, Haans? Thank you !
Not currently planned. Sorry.
You may have finally answered a question i posed previously asking about how near digital reproduction has gotten to the Studer R2R sound. If your comment about this unit getting close to the tape sound can be taken as 1/2 inch 30ips tape sound then you have got my attention and I may just look to try this MU1. I was always impressed by Grimm Audio at the MOC shows so maybe time to dig a little deeper.
I can tell you that it equals 1/4 in tape at 15 IPS in the mids and highs. Lows are even better since tape recorders have their limitations there. Playing at 30 IPS lets you gain an extra octave in the highs but you loose an octave in the lows. 1/2 inch gives you (theoretical) 6 dB better S/N but due to fringing an extra tiny reduction of quality in the lows. So all in all, I would prefer the MU1 provided good digital transcripts are available.
@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel Really appreciate the detailed response, very helpful. I have found through my own experiments that good power supplies and great clocks have had the greatest benefit to digital reproduction. The real challenge was the source and despite much experimentation and cost on USB sources I gave up on USB and moved to SLC SD Cards for my source files with I2S out. It seems like the Grimm MU1 has made substantial improvements in isolating source noise so that gets me excited for the future of streaming and will definitely be looking at the MU1
I apologize in advance for my ignorance, but couldn't you go SPDIF out, into the M-Scaler? And thus gaining the reclocking from the MU1, and the M-Scaler benefits, and leaving the M-Scaler dual BNC into the Chord DAVE?
Yes, that will play. But then you loose the high precision clocking of the MU1. And the scaler in the MU1 sounds even better at 192 kHz than the Chord M-Scaler at 768 kHz. Only the numbers are less impressive🥴. Try to audition them somewhere.
Sorry, and I forgot to mention, that using the mini PC for the source, the CHORD sound driver upscales the bit from 16 or 24 bit to 32 bit on the sending PC before it gets to the M-Scaler. And I am using Qobuz through Audirvana Studio. Not Qobuz directly.
Will there be any difference if I use the SPDIF or the AES input at the Chord Dave?
That depends on the source. If it delivers the same quality signal on both outputs, it will. If not, SPDIF is more likely to be of lower quality.
@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel Thank you for your answer! I am about to buy a Jorma AES cable between the MU1 and the Chord Dave. So I won´t need to look after a SPDIF cable.
Nice review, Hans. This unit is very expensive given that technology always trickles down to less expensive units.
Eventually it will. Although extremely high quality clock crystals remain difficult to produce. One of the reasons to review this equipment indeed is to have a look in the future.
@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel You are making a very good point. Thanks!
getting my Hans B fix! popcorn is ready and lets go..
Couch potato😄
It has a pleasant tension, specialy in the vocals. It deserves active loudspeakers for vivid reproduction.
Or a good DAC.... I agree on your observations
I’d love to see some Naim/Linn digital source reviews at this price point.
Easier said than done, I’m sure.
Correct
I wonder if the MU-1 improves with the new SOtM motherboard for audio replacing the NUC inside.
We'll never know for sure. But I would be surprised if it would improve the sound quality. The 'secret' of the MU1 is the electronics that follows the NUC, the PFGA board and its clocks that makes the digital audio signal fully independent from anything in front of it.
@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel I untherstand it will never be implemented altough i think it will improve the dither and interpolation proces in the FPGA scaler. Besides that I wonder if the ethernet filter and perhaps also the audio switch can left out since the Mu-1 solves that.
You’re probably right. It’s on the agenda to find out as soon as time becomes available
Nice review! I’m trying to wrap my head around why the MU1 replaced your M Scaler? Wouldn’t it sound better connected to both m scaler and Dave versus just Dave ?
That’s the essence of the review: don’t trust figures by itself. The MU1 upsampling and downsampling to 192 kHz PCM sounds even better than the 768 kHz PCM OR 256 DSD from the M Scaler. It all has to do with the quality of the digital signal due to the algorithms used. And there is no point having the upscale signal by the M Scaler downsampled by the MU1. And you don’t want to loose the extremely low digital signal by running it through the M Scaler.
@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel Hans, I just saw today that the Dave's AES input is limited to 96kHz. So it's not able to take full advantage of the MU1's upscaling (to 192kHz). Is there a way to connect MU1 to Dave that can take advantage of the MU1's maximum upscaling rate? (Not only is the Dave's AES input a limitation on the MU1's upscaling, but if my understanding of how the Dave works is accurate, feeding the Dave a higher sample rate would make the Dave work less hard and thus reduce processing noise.)
The AES/EBU input of the DAVE does accept 192 kHz
@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel Yes, it must be "accepting" it since you're able to play the upsampled signal through it. But if the input is in some sense limited to 96 kHZ (as Chord's website says), is the 192 kHz signal being altered in some way by the limitation of the port? Is it downsampling? How to reconcile the fact that it's limited to 96 with the fact that it "accepts" 192?
Hey Hans, is the MU1's super jitter control applied specifically to it's Ethernet interface as well as the other digital outputs ?
Only the AES/EBU and SPDIF outputs are super low jitter. Ethernet can’t be super low jitter since it is an asynchronous connection.
@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel I'm confused. In your video, "The sound of network switches", especially starting around the middle, you assert that jitter control of Ethernet signals is very important and quite audible. Why then would not Grimm Audio focus on jitter control of their Ethernet output as much as the others ?
@@Starlite4321 it has no ethernet output, only AES3 outputs
Great review! Next? Why the Weiss DC501 of course.
Who knows
@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel Even better, T+A DAC 200
In your presentation at the 2022 Dutch Audio Event you mentioned there's one device that can almost completely get rid of jitter. For neutrality before the audience you didn't mention what device it is, but maybe here? Is it this one?
By the way I enjoyed the presentation. A very good overview of the different streaming systems over the years.
That is the one
Very interesting and informative video. One interesting scenario which comes to my mind is what if a CD player digital out to MU1; then digital out from MU1 back to CD player digital input, if the SQ will be better with the processing by MU1. Hope this makes sense. :)
I don't have a CD-player with digital input but used my DAC instead and even the very jittery Philips CD recorder in playback sounded great that way.
@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel I am wondering if online FM (non-flac) sounds good via Grimm?
The Grimm Audio has no analog inputs so you have to digitise it first and then it depends on the quality of the A/D converter. But the analog sound will never improve...
@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel thanks for the reply. I just found out there will be dealer in my country soon. Will compare with my Lumin streamer
Hello Hans, How does Volumio Rivo with upgraded power supply compare to Grimm Mu-1?
Is this a serious question?????
I guess the real question is can there be a scaler/up sampling device added like used with the chord Dave when using a 3party dac. Since beside the world class clocks in the Grimm it also has the scaling/upsampling which helps bad recordings sound better. I’m looking to use dmp-a6 master with LPS into Weiss 204 dac with DDC and upgraded power supply. I want to see if it’s possible with adding a scaler will it get me close to Grimm. Thanks for your time
Hans will this be taking over in one of your systems?
I'm afraid so😁
@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel 🤣
It almost seem that your dac has a more easy job ; connected by the MU 1. It’s a more relaxed way of playing you’re music. Even with a cheaper Dac.
So true
Darn. Only misses two must haves in my book. Ripper and storage. Does anyone sit close enough to operate that big button on top?
Remote? Aptly named product. Oh Brothers!
Ripping can be done on a computer and the rip can be copied to the MU1 over the network. You can use any remote control and program it's code in the MU if you want IR remote. Or use a smartphone or tablet to control it. Last but not least, it can be ordered with an internal SSD for storage. Up to 8 TB versions are available.
A shame that you did not compare the MU1 as a dac confronted to the DAVE as an external dac.
A shame you didn't watch the video with enough attention for then you would have learned that the MU1 has no internal DAC.
@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel You are right. I thought that the 2 XLR were the two analog outs and as it has 3 digital entries I did not understand the concept not beeing a dac. Very specail product. But when you see what it is possible to do on upsampling with HQPlayer, I am not sure of the concept of this MU1. I is a server/streamer with upsampling function... Thanks for the answer and for your work and take care. We need you.
HQPlayer is a nice tool for those that have the knowledge and don't mind a more complex setup, have updates of the OS, drivers that might need attention and so on.
@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel HQ works very fine with Roon. I have an Euphony Summus server and streamer wich already integrates HQ with their stylus software or with Roon. The results are unbelievable.
Digital keeps getting better, the analog folks smug attitude will one day soon morph into envy lol.
It’s no contest. Everyone should choose for themselves.
@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel yes your attitude is wiser, especially given the times we live in
How did playing music ever get this complicated...
How complicated is having almost unlimited access to really high quality recordings in all genres literally at your fingertips from the comfort of your favorite listening chair?
I think you forgot the trouble analog gave us over the years. Tracking angle and damping of the tone arm, tracking weight, wow&flutter, four or five correction curves like RIAA, MC pre-pre's, load impedance, disc input termination, various output values, low frequency feedback, turntable shells to avoid that, playing wet, antistatic brush, record cleaners, ticks and pops, turntable mats of various materials, reckon clamp, and I could go on forever. Buy the MU1 and you can have a record catalog of over 40 million at your fingertips with no worries in the world.
@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel Other than it's not going to give you the best sound. If sound quality is important to you then a CD based device and a good DAC will outperform any computer no matter how it's dressed up with marketing. I have no problem with people using products like the MU1, but its for convenience and not for the best audio performance. I visited a client with one of those last year and after 2 hours he still couldn't get it to work. I have many clients with systems costing over £200K and they have all formats and the computer based one is always third in the sound quality stakes, after CD and analogue (vinyl or tape). Computers are good if convenience is the dominating factor.
@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel Please note Hans, this is not a criticism of the review. I like your reviews and enjoy and appreciate them.
@@d.l.whitton6260 Agreed, everyone should enjoy the music. Just for the record, I design audio equipment, both digital and analogue under my own brand, now 25 years old this year. I also offer other good high end brands to UK clients via my distribution and retail business, so a little more than a high end dealer.👍
I do know what Mr. Beekhuyzen means by "remastered" it always seems to mean "ruined". Compressed to remove dynamic range is never or rarely ever a good thing from what I have heard to date.
👍🏼