16:58 "Dishonor?" This is the coolest thing ever for the Katana, being accepted into a new style and treated with respect. Yes, I would absolutely love to see more of this kind of content, though maybe you could look into getting longer uchigatana or tachi which are more in line with what was used in the sengoku era? It's really just a personal pet-peeve of mine but the whole "katana has worse range thing" is really not true when comparing "katana" and longswords from the same time period (though Edo-era katana and rapiers are a VERY different story).
I would love to see some rogue Kenjutsu group dig up some old Japanese manuscripts and start practicing in HEMA gear. I would be cool to see how the Japanese styles work in full speed/contact. I did a couple years of Iaido and kendo in my early 20s, and picked up HEMA 15 years later. During my time as an Iaidoka I would often ask the sensei during two person kata "ok but what if they just like, didn't do it like that?" (kinda disrespectful I know, but I was a kid) and never really got a satisfactory answer. Getting into HEMA was a breath of fresh air because any question the teacher didn't have an answer for was basically like "well, I'm not EXACTLY sure so lets hit each other with sticks and figure it out!"
I was just reading the Hokushin Ittō-ryū Hyōhō website, and they claim to accept all unofficial taryū-jiai requests from kenshi with a koryū or gendai-kendō/iaidō background. Official taryu jiai requests require a bit more formality e.g. an official request authorized by the headmaster of an acknowledged koryū. These guys don't need to dig up manuscripts, they inherited them from the Chiba clan no reconstruction necessary.
Zornhau ~ uchi-otoshi tsuki Kramphau ~ harai tsuki You see the kramphau in kendo kata #3: displace with shinogi and thrust for solar plexus. [edit: zuki -> tsuki, thanks for the correction😁]
@@kamillipa7679 I don't any ability with the Japanese language, so I guessed, perhaps I guessed wrong. There seek to be some words which take a different consonant as part of a compound expression: keiko - jigeiko tare - mendare katana - uchigatana kote - degote tsuki - mukae zuki tsuki - morote zuki Indeed morote zuki is the sixth iaido kata. Perhaps I misunderstand the construction 😅
Very interesting demonstration. I'm writing from a point od view of 15 years of kendo experience and I would just point out that applying western techniques and displaying that most of them works with katana leaves out that you won't use techniques specifically crafted to work with this weapon (utilising curvature like in ukenagashi or suriage). This will hinder katana in your duel swords experiment project, which btw is great idea :). Maybe applying saber techniques would fit more? For the record, I still believe that typical long sword will win with typical katana nonetheless, if only due to the reach. :)
The katana wouldn't normally block towards the tsuba, its more of holding with it the handle pointing up and the tip pointing down or to the side to deflect or slide off the attack. ukenagashi as a great example, and great video very informative !
Hey David, I adapted mush the same of that Clark described with in his conclusion with this while using the kriegsmesser in regards to using the false edge. The kriedmesser has a short sharpened false edge giving it a advantage with doing this tho. Either way awesome vid and I hope to see more! I think this is going to help with the katana vs other dueling swords when its turn comes up too.
@@knucklepuppy824 Along the side...of what? The grip? Are you trying to say "make the disc guard into a double ring guard like on a katzbalger, so that you can stick your thumb up through it," but just articulated really badly?
@@farkasmactavish I think he's trying to say that you should place your thumb under the tsuba alongside the grip instead. Kinda straightforward for me to understand.
The hands are exposed in every orientation with this specific configuration of katana and suba. None of these movements put you at more or less risk. The hands are a target. We talk about how these techniques work better when you have a full cross guard in the video. There are many times where the technique succeeds with the hands are exposed where they wouldn't normally be
I find it cool to chain the ones that work with the false edge, like the shil, into a zwer with the true edge would make a badass move for a gaijin samurai protagonist lol
I have tried a few false edge techniques with my bokken and all you really need to pull them off is having the proper grip so you can shift the direction of the single edge with your wrists. It really doesn't take that much movement or practice.
I have a double-edged katana (30-inch Moroha-zukuri with a custom tip) and aa 13-inch hilt. I can offer some insight here: my longer hilt lets me use thumbing so I can use the master cuts! And your sparring Krump was great.
Sick video! I'd love to see more :D I came at this from the opposite direction back in the day -- katana into longsword -- and I had some success throwing true-true Zwerchs in handshake grip, instead of true-false in thumb grip. Did those crop up at all? In all fairness, the only sword I can say I've properly 'studied' is the rapier, so it's possible that the 'success' I found at my skill level wouldn't scale up to yours.
Could do a video about true edge v false edge cuts with the sword painted on one side so it's a bit easier to track where and when reverses? I've watched the first two cuts about 10 times and I still don't understand the difference.
well done! this very topic (LS Vs. Katana) was when I first realized, oh so long ago, that a certain Australian Mormon was, in fact, an idiot. Unlike him, you've handled it with honesty and aplomb! Kudos!
Can you do some content on Ko-Katana? I have SBG/Chris Palmers Tactical Ko-Katana and am looking for practical exercises, strikes and defense. Combat focus as opposed to sport.
You should use a tachi not a katana for comparison a katana is closer to a duel saber after all not a longsword. But what do I know I am not a praticioner of the art.
Yes, but the experiment wasn't "can the Tachi perform longsword techniques" it was "can the Katana perform longsword techniques" Of course there are other swords that are more similar to the longsword, but we wanted to check the katana specifically. Can't quite tell if this is supposed to be a genuine comment or passive aggressive. Your last line is weird. But I'm going to assume the best.
@@SellswordArts It's just a comment really and I really mean what I say on the most literal meaning I don't practice both HEMA or Kenjutsu so I wouldn't know but I do admire what you guys try to do and think your channel one of the better ones to see matches and know about it the only other I know of is Shadeversety (I think that is how is written)
Nice video. I think it shows that the mastercuts arent special. Krump is just a beat across the top of the blade. Scheil is just an exchamge of thrusts. Zorn is just a diagonal cut, zwerch just a high horozontal strike, and scheitelhau just a high vertical strike. None of these are unique to german fencing. What does make the mastercuts unique is that they are probably the fundamental cuts in the system.
You must watch seki sensei's videos he is a katana master and other Japanese weapons and he actually did what you did in this video but with European's weapons
Russ Mitchell's Hungarian Hussar sabre book can adapt to a 2 handed sabre (katana) pretty easily. At least for me it's squared stance and centerline guard made it easy.
Here is a matchup between a skilled kendoka (3dan) and HEMA LS: ua-cam.com/video/0TkfvAJ52rQ/v-deo.htmlsi=HGYEDuQdrKI_3quS I thought that it looked quite good.
That notion has been popularized by Muso Shinden Ryu. The edge is untempered martinsitic steel, thus very brittle, so avoiding edge in edge bites and strong impacts to the spine of the sword is a best practice, but not a universal one.
16:58 "Dishonor?" This is the coolest thing ever for the Katana, being accepted into a new style and treated with respect.
Yes, I would absolutely love to see more of this kind of content, though maybe you could look into getting longer uchigatana or tachi which are more in line with what was used in the sengoku era? It's really just a personal pet-peeve of mine but the whole "katana has worse range thing" is really not true when comparing "katana" and longswords from the same time period (though Edo-era katana and rapiers are a VERY different story).
O I forgot about The " let's ask Seki Seki Sensei " How would a katana master fight with a Rapier : it's a cool video
Seki is a fraud and doesn't spar
True, but I personally prefer his more recent halberd vid
@@Maedhros0Bajar i don't like how they skip the full contact stuff with a resisting opponent
@@Zoey_the_Rat While true, they'd need to put on proper safety gear (which I know the Japanese do have, Kendo uses safety gear too for one)
@@Maedhros0Bajar well, yeah, of course, I don't think you should do anything with pokey sticks without safety gear
I would love to see some rogue Kenjutsu group dig up some old Japanese manuscripts and start practicing in HEMA gear. I would be cool to see how the Japanese styles work in full speed/contact.
I did a couple years of Iaido and kendo in my early 20s, and picked up HEMA 15 years later. During my time as an Iaidoka I would often ask the sensei during two person kata "ok but what if they just like, didn't do it like that?" (kinda disrespectful I know, but I was a kid) and never really got a satisfactory answer. Getting into HEMA was a breath of fresh air because any question the teacher didn't have an answer for was basically like "well, I'm not EXACTLY sure so lets hit each other with sticks and figure it out!"
Yeah, JSA have a shut up and train ethos. You have to find a way to ask koudansha during beer keiko.
They do in many dojo, it is called Gekiken 撃剣
I was just reading the Hokushin Ittō-ryū Hyōhō website, and they claim to accept all unofficial taryū-jiai requests from kenshi with a koryū or gendai-kendō/iaidō background. Official taryu jiai requests require a bit more formality e.g. an official request authorized by the headmaster of an acknowledged koryū.
These guys don't need to dig up manuscripts, they inherited them from the Chiba clan no reconstruction necessary.
We have some in Russia, using HEMA-compliant steel katanas from local suppliers.
Zornhau ~ uchi-otoshi tsuki
Kramphau ~ harai tsuki
You see the kramphau in kendo kata #3: displace with shinogi and thrust for solar plexus.
[edit: zuki -> tsuki, thanks for the correction😁]
*tsuki 😊
@@kamillipa7679 I don't any ability with the Japanese language, so I guessed, perhaps I guessed wrong.
There seek to be some words which take a different consonant as part of a compound expression:
keiko - jigeiko
tare - mendare
katana - uchigatana
kote - degote
tsuki - mukae zuki
tsuki - morote zuki
Indeed morote zuki is the sixth iaido kata.
Perhaps I misunderstand the construction 😅
This format was AWESOME. Love watching the talk it out, experimentation, leading up to the sick duels. Thank you.
Convergent evolution. That term keeps flashing in my mind.
The analysis at the end is making me think way more about my second-intention attacks.
Very interesting demonstration. I'm writing from a point od view of 15 years of kendo experience and I would just point out that applying western techniques and displaying that most of them works with katana leaves out that you won't use techniques specifically crafted to work with this weapon (utilising curvature like in ukenagashi or suriage). This will hinder katana in your duel swords experiment project, which btw is great idea :). Maybe applying saber techniques would fit more? For the record, I still believe that typical long sword will win with typical katana nonetheless, if only due to the reach. :)
I LOVE this type of content. Much love from the Netherlands
Or just use Fiore's approach, aggressive parry with Kron and execute the plays as usual, turn the false cut into thrusts
Did you see ask Seki Sensei videos on long sword and halberd they look very good
"Crump... I've never prayed to you. I have not the time. No one, not even you, will remember this day; whether we lived or died".
And if you do not listen, then to hell with you!
The katana wouldn't normally block towards the tsuba, its more of holding with it the handle pointing up and the tip pointing down or to the side to deflect or slide off the attack. ukenagashi as a great example, and great video very informative !
There are also double edged spearpoint katanas. Rare but oh so sweet.
It’s fun to see them release a video, it always fun to watch it!
It’s just upsetting them not getting as much as attention as their reels
I would love a Seki Seki Sensie reaction to this. 😮
Hey David, I adapted mush the same of that Clark described with in his conclusion with this while using the kriegsmesser in regards to using the false edge. The kriedmesser has a short sharpened false edge giving it a advantage with doing this tho. Either way awesome vid and I hope to see more! I think this is going to help with the katana vs other dueling swords when its turn comes up too.
Blade thumbing is difficult given the disc guard.
Extend the hilt.
@@knucklepuppy824 Still can't stick your thumb up through a solid object, my guy.
Unless by "hilt" you meant "guard".
@@farkasmactavish no, along the side
@@knucklepuppy824 Along the side...of what? The grip?
Are you trying to say "make the disc guard into a double ring guard like on a katzbalger, so that you can stick your thumb up through it," but just articulated really badly?
@@farkasmactavish I think he's trying to say that you should place your thumb under the tsuba alongside the grip instead. Kinda straightforward for me to understand.
Yes, carry on with the experiment.
I would love to see how a h.e.m.a teacher have a conversation with a Japanese sword teacher
Does Kreigsmesser have it's own techniques? I think it'd be a more comparable blade to the katana.
I was looking for a bit more analysis about how these techniques expose / protect the hands behind the sword and tsuba.
The hands are exposed in every orientation with this specific configuration of katana and suba. None of these movements put you at more or less risk. The hands are a target.
We talk about how these techniques work better when you have a full cross guard in the video. There are many times where the technique succeeds with the hands are exposed where they wouldn't normally be
I find it cool to chain the ones that work with the false edge, like the shil, into a zwer with the true edge
would make a badass move for a gaijin samurai protagonist lol
also love this video a katana and a long sword are similar and both awesome swords keep up the great content :)
I have tried a few false edge techniques with my bokken and all you really need to pull them off is having the proper grip so you can shift the direction of the single edge with your wrists. It really doesn't take that much movement or practice.
That's how I think my OC fights with his katana in a fencing sword vs sword fight. (He's a German samurai)
Well , there you go !
Further proof your oc is based !
@@danielomar9712 Thanks :3
Heck yes! This was awesome
I wanna learn more about the Cutlass sword.
so you can longsword with a kriegsmesser. Skallagrim needs to know.
I want to see y'all practicing longsword techniques with a katana, and katana techniques with a longsword.
Is the katana not more like a saber but with a weird hand guard and a two handed handle?
It looked like reverse grip could have worked here... LOL
I have a double-edged katana (30-inch Moroha-zukuri with a custom tip) and aa 13-inch hilt. I can offer some insight here: my longer hilt lets me use thumbing so I can use the master cuts! And your sparring Krump was great.
What do i wanna see next? A review of the acolyte episodes 5 and 8 lol
Sick video! I'd love to see more :D
I came at this from the opposite direction back in the day -- katana into longsword -- and I had some success throwing true-true Zwerchs in handshake grip, instead of true-false in thumb grip. Did those crop up at all?
In all fairness, the only sword I can say I've properly 'studied' is the rapier, so it's possible that the 'success' I found at my skill level wouldn't scale up to yours.
I think fiore's style would be a better suit for a katana, as fiore very rarely use false edge.
Love your videos. Were I can buy this show fight katana @Sellsword Arts? I want one for my fights and training against knights
Try a Kronhau in the next one. I imagine that will be hilarious with a tsuba.
this was cool
Could do a video about true edge v false edge cuts with the sword painted on one side so it's a bit easier to track where and when reverses? I've watched the first two cuts about 10 times and I still don't understand the difference.
well done! this very topic (LS Vs. Katana) was when I first realized, oh so long ago, that a certain Australian Mormon was, in fact, an idiot.
Unlike him, you've handled it with honesty and aplomb! Kudos!
Can you do some content on Ko-Katana? I have SBG/Chris Palmers Tactical Ko-Katana and am looking for practical exercises, strikes and defense. Combat focus as opposed to sport.
You should use a tachi not a katana for comparison a katana is closer to a duel saber after all not a longsword. But what do I know I am not a praticioner of the art.
Yes, but the experiment wasn't "can the Tachi perform longsword techniques" it was "can the Katana perform longsword techniques"
Of course there are other swords that are more similar to the longsword, but we wanted to check the katana specifically.
Can't quite tell if this is supposed to be a genuine comment or passive aggressive. Your last line is weird. But I'm going to assume the best.
@@SellswordArts It's just a comment really and I really mean what I say on the most literal meaning I don't practice both HEMA or Kenjutsu so I wouldn't know but I do admire what you guys try to do and think your channel one of the better ones to see matches and know about it the only other I know of is Shadeversety (I think that is how is written)
these guys are really good at sparring
Nice video. I think it shows that the mastercuts arent special. Krump is just a beat across the top of the blade. Scheil is just an exchamge of thrusts. Zorn is just a diagonal cut, zwerch just a high horozontal strike, and scheitelhau just a high vertical strike. None of these are unique to german fencing. What does make the mastercuts unique is that they are probably the fundamental cuts in the system.
*looks at title
... Some of them, probably. Good luck trying to short edge though...
Next up: can the longsword use iaido techniques?
@@ZarnonElchris Not really, because straight blade doesn't lend itself well to nukitsuke. Now iai with a sabre...
idk why I said that the last time I heard someone says that was ages ago
nobody doing this anymore honestly
they were doing it way more in like 2005
@@TONEDEAFSOUND blame the history channel and kill bill for that lol
@@doug-core8850 real shit lol
@@TONEDEAFSOUND your right though I just get angry at things cuse I'm bored there is nothing really to get angry about
What's wrong with exaggerating the capabilities of a sword tho, it happens with most of them in media
You must watch seki sensei's videos he is a katana master and other Japanese weapons and he actually did what you did in this video but with European's weapons
try to react seki sensei's trying the long sword....give us your thoughts on it
Should use an Odachi sword instead of a katana
Russ Mitchell's Hungarian Hussar sabre book can adapt to a 2 handed sabre (katana) pretty easily. At least for me it's squared stance and centerline guard made it easy.
Nice video. Great dishonor. Get in contact with a kendoka. it would be really interesting if you find someone to cross-practice with you
Here is a matchup between a skilled kendoka (3dan) and HEMA LS:
ua-cam.com/video/0TkfvAJ52rQ/v-deo.htmlsi=HGYEDuQdrKI_3quS
I thought that it looked quite good.
I would like it of Seki-sensei could take a look at this...
But i thought the katana wasnt supposed to clash blades so much, especially the edge. Just because of how it's constructed, clashing would damage it
That notion has been popularized by Muso Shinden Ryu. The edge is untempered martinsitic steel, thus very brittle, so avoiding edge in edge bites and strong impacts to the spine of the sword is a best practice, but not a universal one.
....is this guy wearing lipstick?
No, I'm just that beautiful
I’m sure shadiversity has done this before…..
@@kingrel1937 with no sparring or any sort of real information
@@TONEDEAFSOUNDNo no , DUEL katanas with german style !