I am glad this gets covered, because having someone say "have thousands of flight hours... this is just one of those things that happens" and having the analysis being so off, by blaming the wing and the wake, really grated on me. It is not a full stall though, but a spin, and it seems quite likely that letting go of left brake would have let the wing fly without much issue.
Thank you Trevor for the respectful step by step break down. Very helpful for us newer pilots to help avoid these situations. Keep up the great content!
i was about to mention it but i am sure we all know how he sits in front of the screen right now watching this and have the finger pointed at the computer: "THATS FREAKING BLASPHEMY! oh hell naaaaw he didnt just say that!" 🤬😱😱😱😱 🤣
@@lobbyrobby"he wouldnt even be in this dangerous situation because with suppertraining and cripplezone the pilots are SO confident that they dont even need to fly anymore - they KNOW they are the best" 😜
My first thought was altitude and humidity, my second thought was “Did he cross his own track and turbulence.?” Then, in the slow-mo, I saw he wasn’t letting the wing fly, the old “Pendular stability”, but, as pointed out, he was horsing to close to the ground, he had very little margin. There was NO TIME for a thinking response AND there was no conditioned response available (assuming he didn’t have a ballistic reserve).
He never pulled his right brake. Once his body turns you can see his left is buried and the right is all the way up. Dude grabbed a handfull of left brake at the wrong time.
Got on top of this one quick didn't we? 😂 Saw this on FB earlier too, great breakdown my man. You would think he'd know better being an experienced pilot, showing off maybe? I was thinking he could've gone hands up and bury the throttle to save it, just can't tell exactly how high he was off the ground in the freeze frame
If he buried the throttle at the top of the swing, that could just exacerbate the parachutal stall. That could just increase angle of attack. The right thing would have been hands up, let the wing dive and recover, then easy on throttle.
@@warrenkral6562 Yep that's exactly what I meant, thanks for the clarification. 🙂 I think he would've had enough room as well, but you can't really help it when in a full panic
I saw this pilot's YT video of this just today, thankfully he only had bruising. He thought it was his own wake that made the wing act like that but what you explained was actually what caused it.
If worried about a nose dive on recovery, could you not PARTIALLY release brakes to break stall at a safer AoA? Then even if you are at a slower dive, you have energy to flare before impact. Please correct me if I’m wrong, I’m an airplane guy, haven’t gotten the chance to join this hobby yet
The pilot is an instructor at his own flight school, this is a problem, no? I saw the heavy break and freaked out myself. I am a new pilot with about 20 hours. Made me pucker.
A newbie's comment :-) The stall reason could be because his LEFT hand almost was to his hip? could the pilot have reduced power for a second and raised his hand then give more power to recover from the stall and fly away? Yes he could have lost 20 feet more but still safe. Florida Aviator Paramotor trainer always says, one of his UA-cam videos: SPEED IS LIFE, SPEED IS CONTROL. Speed means having some power to keep AIR flowing through the wing...I think pilot came almost vertically down because he did not give power?
every single time i watch these mishaps as newbie i am kind of happy that 99% are coming from what i call the "SHOW OFF FACTOR". it makes me feel a bit safer to fly after seeing this because i know i have zero interest what so ever in showing off. i see it all around me. people who usually take off and first thing they do is fly half meter over the beach in between cars/bystander will sooner or later eat shiat and break something. always happens. best thing to do is to stay away from this group and fly with pilots having a different mindset. by all means i dont say this guy here is a fool for doing it. i am sure he have much more experience than me. i am just glad we dont see more videos about catastrophic hangpoint failures or other nightmare fuels stuff wheter the pilot have no fault at all and simply crash because a buckle came undone or something weird. thanks for the breakdown trevor. i have a question: we see he have a fast wing combined with what seems to be a bit under powered PPG. would a very powerful paramotor with more thrust help in this kind of situation to get the wing flying sooner again? or is he in a kind of no return situation so low to ground?
No, a more powerful motor would not have helped here. Flying like this on a slow wing likely would have had the same result. I fly the same wing (Apco F3) as this pilot. Same color too.
Brother I am a beginner in paramotor trike... I will start my training on a beach there is too much small land and I don't know how to swim... Please suggest me if it is safe for me or not... I am from India... I don't know much English... Hope you understand what I am asking you... Please reply... I am already scared after seeing the take off and landing spot
I watch Grandpa all the time. He too is an instructor and from what I’ve seen, a good one. Very conscientious and patient with students. I think this was just a momentary mindfart that can occur in a millisecond. Maybe he broke his concentration for a moment. In this sport it appears risk goes with the territory. Also he may have been conscious of his students watching below. From what I’ve read, including you Trevor, a pilots may “tend” to show off though unconsciously when being watched. I’m hopeful he wasn’t damaged too bad in the fall.
If his own assessment of the 2 video angles were correct, I would agree with you. I have serious doubts of this guy's competence if he thinks this is the fault of a C class wing or flying in wake turbulence. No one is immune from mistakes, but saying "these things just happen on fast wings" is just negligible. I fly the same f3 he was flying BTW. This would happen on an A wing
Yes in order for a spin to occur a stall must happen stall happens when excessive input, a.k.a. brakes but in a spin both sides of the wing are stalled but one side is more stalled then the other cuses it to spin .recovery. My opinion you should reduce power ,hands up , let her fly ,weight shift to the flying side .build momentum. Then power after recovery is made.. not the only way but it’s one way I’ve recover from a collapse.😊
questions. When did the pilot last have a flight? the wing? was it airworthy? So the pilot takes off and swings around. entering his own wake? so are u saying the wake has nothing to do with the accident!. just a rumour I heard that the pilot hadn't flown for years. how old was the wing? When was it last tested for airworthiness? he may have decided to use a wing that he hasn't flown for years. let alone the pilot. and we all know over time the lines can shrink. etc. at the end of the day It's a accident. flying through his own wake made it worse. has anyone checked the wing out.? how old. last time an airworthiness test was done. etc. has anyone? checked to find out ... hmm.
Yeah, it was just very poor energy management - and unfortunately, it all happened very low to the ground. This is why I gain altitude before initiating maneuvers that build energy. That way, if you happen to F it up, you have room to recover - and like most piots - it's happened to me early on. Fortunately for me, I was up high and it was just a lesson in how not to manage energy. As soon as I saw him porpoise up and then heavy brake, I held my breath, knowing that the wing just didn't have any energy left. I imagine that as good as the sky conditions were, he wasn't probably on his most alert either; If things are nice, you sometimes feel that you can worry less about collapses or other wind-related impacts on the wing. He just made wrong inputs. I am glad that he appears to have only suffered minor injuries and can return to the sky.
I would say that if lift his hand up the odds are that nothing bad would have happened, given that he made no more mistakes and manage a little bit the energy after the recovery. The reserve, as I see is not an option, he is too low, no time for it unless balistic, jaja. He was lucky. I would guess he changed the wing not long ago, from a safer more dumpened one, and that is the reason why he was so heavy handed. That said, I am very happy that he is alright, generally speaking. And thank him for sharing, so we can learn.
It also looked and sounded Like once the wing was hanging back and started stalling he held high power not allowing the wing to surge forward and recover he kept it in that deep stall with power.
I believe he panicked and just waited to hit the ground.Had he let off the throttle and gone hands up i believe the wing would have instantly reinflated and he could have then applied throttle or if to low applied brake to flare into a landing.He never let off the throttle keeping the wing behind him and held full brake,,both of which prevented it from reinflating.
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. Ride them like a normal person and largely this would be avoided. Dude was hot Roding it and paid the price. Hope he was ok and learned a lesson!!
I would argue that from the still-frame that it was still recoverable if the pilot was aware and instant.... The right wing is still flying, with both hands up from that point I would guesstimate a 180 turn-spin-recovery and been aprox 45 degrees nose down fully open and from there would be able to drop in, blead/flare before a shallow impact. IF you are going to pull the glider into a spin initiation, watch the inside wing for its response (going all "banana") Each wing is different but quite predictable given some practice to the point where you could pick the recovery heading. Stable wings tend to drop into the spin abruptly (but wont quite as dynamic!) and high aspect/performance wings tend to give you much more notice (wingtip bends back and the stall moves in more predictably/observably from there) Either way, it will develop very quickly BUT will remain predictable until full stall.
I fly the same apco f3 as this pilot. I give it about 0% chance of recovery at this height. The fact that he put himself in this position is just wild. I don't think a beginner glider would have recovered from this either.
@@warrenkral6562 That's an interesting take. Maybe grab yourself a 1000ft and give it a try... Start small with heavy input and watch the tip... The F3 looks predictable.... Things happen fast but you can easily see and respond if you are aware. I wouldn't push it passed a 90 degree exit until you have done hundreds. I'm pretty sure after that, your "0%" assumption would shift :) Wingovers and spin initiations are excellent training for the type of departures we are likely to see... They don't have to be big and dramatic... Just tuning your muscle memory for energy management.
@pimplequeen2 thanks for the reply. Yes the F3 is very predictable, with great feedback when it is about to stall. It is going to be hard to tell exactly how much attitude is lost when at a safe distance from the ground however. I would bet it is going to be more than the 40 ft he had here though.
@@warrenkral6562 Going off the F3 line lengths of about 7m (X3 lengths "ish" from his feet to the ground = about 70ft in that shot) I'm not a gambling man but if forced to bet £100 I would put my money on it being recoverable at least to a shallow impact if not missing the ground altogether. Not a position either of us would like to be in or repeat :) Like you say, its a bit "wild" that he is unaware of what he is getting himself into. I would give him a fear driven flea in his ear for sure but not without reminding him that we are all demented from time to time... We fly these things after all and that has to mean we are all a bit demented! A good gps or vario would give you a ball-park loss of hight. Id do it myself but I have moved on to Sub70kg trikes.
@pimplequeen2 if it was 70ft rather than 40ft I will change my 0% to 50%. However, I don't think my skills would make the cut for the 50%. I would likely lose 10 to 20 ft before reacting. Know thy self. 😆
What is really at the core of this is the person running the camera.The pilot was showing off for his audience and he stalled the wing and it went parachutal.
@@ParapenteAngola I don’t dispute the fact that it’s there. But it’s a flat out lie that it was built intentionally. And there’s no proof that it’s any better or worse on the flat top than any other unit. One could say that the crumple zone of this guys unit saved him. The flat top “crumple zone” is not an intentional design feature because at the end of the day, dell didn’t even design it.
3:51 "The pilot burned the energy upward which was an OK thing to do." Am I watching the same video as you? Twenty feet off the ground with a sharp 30 degree climb is NOT an OK thing to do with a paramotor.
Guess no one is going to point out the fact that this guy was flying like a total idiot... doing crazy sharp turns on take off is never good... paramotors aren’t made for thrill riding.
I am glad this gets covered, because having someone say "have thousands of flight hours... this is just one of those things that happens" and having the analysis being so off, by blaming the wing and the wake, really grated on me.
It is not a full stall though, but a spin, and it seems quite likely that letting go of left brake would have let the wing fly without much issue.
Thank you Trevor for the respectful step by step break down. Very helpful for us newer pilots to help avoid these situations. Keep up the great content!
Thanks for covering this and giving us your thoughts
Dell is having a freakin heart attack listening to this one lol
lol hopefully he doesn't go on another long silly tangent
😂 for sure
Hahaha. We do know if he was flying a flat top and a dominator wing this would never have happened, right?
i was about to mention it but i am sure we all know how he sits in front of the screen right now watching this and have the finger pointed at the computer: "THATS FREAKING BLASPHEMY! oh hell naaaaw he didnt just say that!" 🤬😱😱😱😱
🤣
@@lobbyrobby"he wouldnt even be in this dangerous situation because with suppertraining and cripplezone the pilots are SO confident that they dont even need to fly anymore - they KNOW they are the best" 😜
Great video Trevor! Your insights are very helpful to newbs like me
My teacher taught me when you are pitched straight up, hands up, if you are pitched down, hands down.
Well explained Mr Steele. Nice objective information.
Thank you for this video, Trevor. That's the same wing I fly.
Too much brake from what I see excellent breakdown thx
very helpful, yes I am going very slow with my progression to allow time and opportunity for me to learn and have forgiving learning with my spyder 3
My first thought was altitude and humidity, my second thought was “Did he cross his own track and turbulence.?” Then, in the slow-mo, I saw he wasn’t letting the wing fly, the old “Pendular stability”, but, as pointed out, he was horsing to close to the ground, he had very little margin. There was NO TIME for a thinking response AND there was no conditioned response available (assuming he didn’t have a ballistic reserve).
Should of watched Top Gun, went into his own jet wash.
Excellent analysis, as usual. It looked to me like the pilot was intending to check the surge at the top of his porpoise, but did it way too soon.
He never pulled his right brake. Once his body turns you can see his left is buried and the right is all the way up. Dude grabbed a handfull of left brake at the wrong time.
@@matthewholmes8638 Yeah, you're right looking at it again. He was going for a left crank, shoulda done it sooner before he ran out of energy.
Thanks, Trevor.
Hands up power off will fix a lot of problems if you arent sure what to do!
This happened at the field I fly from. It was yesterday in the morning.
left hand up, weight shift right.
Agreed. That is what I was taught.
Bill
Got on top of this one quick didn't we? 😂 Saw this on FB earlier too, great breakdown my man. You would think he'd know better being an experienced pilot, showing off maybe? I was thinking he could've gone hands up and bury the throttle to save it, just can't tell exactly how high he was off the ground in the freeze frame
If he buried the throttle at the top of the swing, that could just exacerbate the parachutal stall. That could just increase angle of attack. The right thing would have been hands up, let the wing dive and recover, then easy on throttle.
@@warrenkral6562
Yep that's exactly what I meant, thanks for the clarification. 🙂 I think he would've had enough room as well, but you can't really help it when in a full panic
I saw this pilot's YT video of this just today, thankfully he only had bruising. He thought it was his own wake that made the wing act like that but what you explained was actually what caused it.
If worried about a nose dive on recovery, could you not PARTIALLY release brakes to break stall at a safer AoA? Then even if you are at a slower dive, you have energy to flare before impact. Please correct me if I’m wrong, I’m an airplane guy, haven’t gotten the chance to join this hobby yet
thnks
Great job Trevor, I love to hear about this so that I can learn from it. Love the new word of the day - PARACHUTLLY
The pilot is an instructor at his own flight school, this is a problem, no? I saw the heavy break and freaked out myself. I am a new pilot with about 20 hours. Made me pucker.
It is a problem, I know 1st hand.
@@Jppg-er6me what's the story?
It looked like he took tension out of his lines as he passed through max rpm wake turbulence.
He held the throttle during the climb also. If he came off the throttle it would allowed the wing to surge earlier
A newbie's comment :-) The stall reason could be because his LEFT hand almost was to his hip? could the pilot have reduced power for a second and raised his hand then give more power to recover from the stall and fly away? Yes he could have lost 20 feet more but still safe. Florida Aviator Paramotor trainer always says, one of his UA-cam videos: SPEED IS LIFE, SPEED IS CONTROL. Speed means having some power to keep AIR flowing through the wing...I think pilot came almost vertically down because he did not give power?
Power wouldn’t have saved this. You can stall at full throttle, half throttle, and no throttle. Power doesn’t change that
every single time i watch these mishaps as newbie i am kind of happy that 99% are coming from what i call the "SHOW OFF FACTOR".
it makes me feel a bit safer to fly after seeing this because i know i have zero interest what so ever in showing off. i see it all around me. people who usually take off and first thing they do is fly half meter over the beach in between cars/bystander will sooner or later eat shiat and break something. always happens. best thing to do is to stay away from this group and fly with pilots having a different mindset.
by all means i dont say this guy here is a fool for doing it. i am sure he have much more experience than me. i am just glad we dont see more videos about catastrophic hangpoint failures or other nightmare fuels stuff wheter the pilot have no fault at all and simply crash because a buckle came undone or something weird.
thanks for the breakdown trevor.
i have a question: we see he have a fast wing combined with what seems to be a bit under powered PPG.
would a very powerful paramotor with more thrust help in this kind of situation to get the wing flying sooner again? or is he in a kind of no return situation so low to ground?
No, a more powerful motor would not have helped here. Flying like this on a slow wing likely would have had the same result. I fly the same wing (Apco F3) as this pilot. Same color too.
Brother I am a beginner in paramotor trike... I will start my training on a beach there is too much small land and I don't know how to swim... Please suggest me if it is safe for me or not... I am from India... I don't know much English... Hope you understand what I am asking you... Please reply... I am already scared after seeing the take off and landing spot
I watch Grandpa all the time. He too is an instructor and from what I’ve seen, a good one. Very conscientious and patient with students. I think this was just a momentary mindfart that can occur in a millisecond. Maybe he broke his concentration for a moment. In this sport it appears risk goes with the territory. Also he may have been conscious of his students watching below. From what I’ve read, including you Trevor, a pilots may “tend” to show off though unconsciously when being watched. I’m hopeful he wasn’t damaged too bad in the fall.
If his own assessment of the 2 video angles were correct, I would agree with you. I have serious doubts of this guy's competence if he thinks this is the fault of a C class wing or flying in wake turbulence. No one is immune from mistakes, but saying "these things just happen on fast wings" is just negligible. I fly the same f3 he was flying BTW. This would happen on an A wing
Yes in order for a spin to occur a stall must happen stall happens when excessive input, a.k.a. brakes but in a spin both sides of the wing are stalled but one side is more stalled then the other cuses it to spin .recovery. My opinion you should reduce power ,hands up , let her fly ,weight shift to the flying side .build momentum. Then power after recovery is made.. not the only way but it’s one way I’ve recover from a collapse.😊
The pilot (PPG Grandpa) blamed it on having a high C wing, he said an A or B wing would have recovered, thoughts?
Too low for those maneuvers
Pilot error all day long. Simples
questions. When did the pilot last have a flight? the wing? was it airworthy? So the pilot takes off and swings around. entering his own wake? so are u saying the wake has nothing to do with the accident!. just a rumour I heard that the pilot hadn't flown for years. how old was the wing? When was it last tested for airworthiness? he may have decided to use a wing that he hasn't flown for years. let alone the pilot. and we all know over time the lines can shrink. etc. at the end of the day It's a accident. flying through his own wake made it worse. has anyone checked the wing out.? how old. last time an airworthiness test was done. etc. has anyone? checked to find out ... hmm.
We always try to let the frame take the impact in heavy landings on a hanglilder.
This was my instructor, thats all Im going to say
He was my instructor too, I quit him after a few days and went to train with Matt Minyard.
Yeah, it was just very poor energy management - and unfortunately, it all happened very low to the ground. This is why I gain altitude before initiating maneuvers that build energy. That way, if you happen to F it up, you have room to recover - and like most piots - it's happened to me early on. Fortunately for me, I was up high and it was just a lesson in how not to manage energy. As soon as I saw him porpoise up and then heavy brake, I held my breath, knowing that the wing just didn't have any energy left.
I imagine that as good as the sky conditions were, he wasn't probably on his most alert either; If things are nice, you sometimes feel that you can worry less about collapses or other wind-related impacts on the wing. He just made wrong inputs. I am glad that he appears to have only suffered minor injuries and can return to the sky.
I would say that if lift his hand up the odds are that nothing bad would have happened, given that he made no more mistakes and manage a little bit the energy after the recovery. The reserve, as I see is not an option, he is too low, no time for it unless balistic, jaja. He was lucky. I would guess he changed the wing not long ago, from a safer more dumpened one, and that is the reason why he was so heavy handed.
That said, I am very happy that he is alright, generally speaking. And thank him for sharing, so we can learn.
I have never flown one of these but new before it happened he was about to stall it
It also looked and sounded Like once the wing was hanging back and started stalling he held high power not allowing the wing to surge forward and recover he kept it in that deep stall with power.
I believe he panicked and just waited to hit the ground.Had he let off the throttle and gone hands up i believe the wing would have instantly reinflated and he could have then applied throttle or if to low applied brake to flare into a landing.He never let off the throttle keeping the wing behind him and held full brake,,both of which prevented it from reinflating.
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. Ride them like a normal person and largely this would be avoided. Dude was hot Roding it and paid the price. Hope he was ok and learned a lesson!!
I would argue that from the still-frame that it was still recoverable if the pilot was aware and instant.... The right wing is still flying, with both hands up from that point I would guesstimate a 180 turn-spin-recovery and been aprox 45 degrees nose down fully open and from there would be able to drop in, blead/flare before a shallow impact.
IF you are going to pull the glider into a spin initiation, watch the inside wing for its response (going all "banana") Each wing is different but quite predictable given some practice to the point where you could pick the recovery heading.
Stable wings tend to drop into the spin abruptly (but wont quite as dynamic!) and high aspect/performance wings tend to give you much more notice (wingtip bends back and the stall moves in more predictably/observably from there)
Either way, it will develop very quickly BUT will remain predictable until full stall.
I fly the same apco f3 as this pilot. I give it about 0% chance of recovery at this height. The fact that he put himself in this position is just wild. I don't think a beginner glider would have recovered from this either.
@@warrenkral6562
That's an interesting take.
Maybe grab yourself a 1000ft and give it a try... Start small with heavy input and watch the tip... The F3 looks predictable.... Things happen fast but you can easily see and respond if you are aware.
I wouldn't push it passed a 90 degree exit until you have done hundreds.
I'm pretty sure after that, your "0%" assumption would shift :)
Wingovers and spin initiations are excellent training for the type of departures we are likely to see... They don't have to be big and dramatic... Just tuning your muscle memory for energy management.
@pimplequeen2 thanks for the reply. Yes the F3 is very predictable, with great feedback when it is about to stall. It is going to be hard to tell exactly how much attitude is lost when at a safe distance from the ground however. I would bet it is going to be more than the 40 ft he had here though.
@@warrenkral6562
Going off the F3 line lengths of about 7m (X3 lengths "ish" from his feet to the ground = about 70ft in that shot)
I'm not a gambling man but if forced to bet £100 I would put my money on it being recoverable at least to a shallow impact if not missing the ground altogether.
Not a position either of us would like to be in or repeat :)
Like you say, its a bit "wild" that he is unaware of what he is getting himself into.
I would give him a fear driven flea in his ear for sure but not without reminding him that we are all demented from time to time... We fly these things after all and that has to mean we are all a bit demented!
A good gps or vario would give you a ball-park loss of hight.
Id do it myself but I have moved on to Sub70kg trikes.
@pimplequeen2 if it was 70ft rather than 40ft I will change my 0% to 50%. However, I don't think my skills would make the cut for the 50%. I would likely lose 10 to 20 ft before reacting. Know thy self. 😆
Complacency
Angle of attack went too high. Just like an airplane, he lost speed and entered a stall.
It's good to document crashes... what not to do. Low hot dogging, headed down wind and ham fisted at the end.
I can personally attest a reserve can/will work under 100'. But I don't recommend doing dumb stuff under 500'..😂😂😅
What is really at the core of this is the person running the camera.The pilot was showing off for his audience and he stalled the wing and it went parachutal.
Nah. pilot is always responsible. not a cameraman.
Pilot error from the start....
11:12: Flattop and others are design with crumple zone for this. And you know. its not honest from you to say that.
No it’s not. That’s a lie you’ve been told for a long time.
@@TrevorSteele1 i have, i use, i was been saved on it ... the same cage since 2015.
and you know me from that time.
@@ParapenteAngola I don’t dispute the fact that it’s there. But it’s a flat out lie that it was built intentionally. And there’s no proof that it’s any better or worse on the flat top than any other unit. One could say that the crumple zone of this guys unit saved him. The flat top “crumple zone” is not an intentional design feature because at the end of the day, dell didn’t even design it.
Yet another unsafe glider.
Glider had nothing to do with it
@@TrevorSteele1
At least its not another dead paragliding pilot.
3:51 "The pilot burned the energy upward which was an OK thing to do." Am I watching the same video as you? Twenty feet off the ground with a sharp 30 degree climb is NOT an OK thing to do with a paramotor.
Guess no one is going to point out the fact that this guy was flying like a total idiot... doing crazy sharp turns on take off is never good... paramotors aren’t made for thrill riding.
You don't mention the obvious. Why?
This is the case of a dude playing in the sky, like any other dudes making burnouts and donuts on Friday night.
stall in turn