I love all the dialogue explaining that Shadow literally can't sustain his Super form, which makes sense seeing as Super is a form Sonic has used multiple times, but Shadow is just now exposed to this. He also has his inhibitor rings, which are likely making it even harder to sustain Super since he can't control his energy on his own
What? That doesn't make any sense. Shadow's inhibitor rings wouldn't have made in difference how long he could keep his super form because they're not linked to the Chaos Emeralds. My guess is Shadow was burning through his energy faster than Sonic because at this point Sonic knows how to conserve his energy in his super form. The only reason Shadow was struglling was because of inexperience.
The inhibitor rings hold back Shadow's full power, so he can properly control it. Once he removes them it's unleashed all at once and it burns through his energy quickly and can't maintain it for long, so with his super state having those rings off will burn through even more energy, and due to his inexperience with using the full power of the 7 Chaos Emeralds it costed Shadow deeply, which is most likely why he couldn't maintain his super form long and then lost his memory.
I think it’s also supposed to imply that Sonic’s potential is greater than Shadow’s: Shadow is near his limit, but Sonic still has room to grow even further. It might have even been part of an abandoned plot thread, for this game to have been a stealth origin story for sonic
It's really unnerving with the characters worrying you more and more about how close the ark is to earth, and the screen going more red and sonic and shadow and the ark setting on fire. That's a climatic final boss that's more than just a fifty second time limit.
It's guaranteed to play at the 4 minute mark when playing as Sonic in the fight, and keep in mind Shadow is basically a different character after Adventure 2 due to his amnesia and putting his past behind him to live a new life for himself. If Shadow never suffered from amnesia, then he'd definitely be much more different than he is now and how he was originally portrayed before working with Sonic to save Earth.
@@Safalmao They're both the Ultimate Lifeforms, it's just that Sonic was the one that Gerald based Shadow off of from the mural of Super Sonic in Sonic 3&K
@@omaralfar1666 there can only be one, and sonic is the real one, in the game right after this it was was said/shown that sonic was in super form flying from the moon, back to earth for "a few days", when shadow couldn't do it for 5 minutes!
@@Safalmao Even in Adventure 2 and some games like Unleashed and Black Knight theres a lot of implications that Sonic is unaware of his strength He used a Fake Chaos Emerald for Chaos Control which shouldnt even be possible according to Shadow you know, the same person who knows about the Chaos Emerald true nature He is apparently unnaturally good natured to the point a shattered Dark Gaia cant corrupt him at all And he is strong enough to move forward on things that really should make normal people lose their hope on life
as epic as this game and boss fight is, im surprised nobody is talking about the fight being against a giant lizard with a satellite sized rod shoved up his ass
i know there are a lot of younger sonic fans nowadays who might not be aware, but trust me, those jokes have already been made a thousandfold, we've heard enough of them...
wait sonic is the ultimate life form ?, then this confirms the theory that shadow was actually based on the super sonic drawing in the hidden palace zone .
@@mayisaythatsasmashingblous5876 Well maybe, but the way he said it sounded like he just found the answer to life, and still you have to admit shadow being based after sonic isn't that impossible.
@@lpfan4491 Yeah. That mural of Super Sonic and Eggman is in the Hidden Palace when you fight Knuckles. That's why Base Shadow resembles Super Sonic and maybe the reason why Shadow is a hedgehog in the first place. Its pretty interesting in retrospect.
I thought it was pretty unclear where exactly hidden palace zone is,just that is within reach of the other places(where he caught rouge in sa2 next to the stage I forgot the name of,sky sanctuary,angel island and mystic ruins)
DANG! O_O The dialogue actually warns of Shadow's disappearance after the battle! I've gotten only as far as past the 3 minute mark for average gameplay, only reach the end of the time limit on purpose. Thanks for the compilation!
2:07 Shadows line hits hard imagine saving the planet full of the same people that took your only family right in front of you shadows promise to Maria is heartbreaking
You know, I always questioned why only Shadow "dies" when they both use the simultaneous Chaos Control after beating thr Final Hazard, but these dialogues between Sonic & Shadow answer my question! Not only does Shadow show immense exhaustion numerous times when fighting in his Super form with Sonic getting increasingly worried about Shadow, but he also lacks the experience being in a Super form in the first place, unlike Sonic who has used the form (outside of spinoffs) at least 5 times at this point! And four of those times involved Super Sonic fighting either one of Eggman's larger machines or Perfect Chaos in Adventure 1! While I wish you didn't have to wait until the 3-4 minute mark to hear these lines, it's still really cool foreSHADOWing for the ending! And it harkins back to the classic era of Sonic when he ised the Super form much more often at the player's whim since as long as you collected the Chaos Emeralds and 50 Rings, you could transform at any time! And fun fact: Originally, if you collected all this game's Emblems and unlocked Green Hill Zone (WAY easier said than done!), by getting an A-Rank in that Level, you would unlock Super Sonic & Super Shadow for multiplayer! Unfortunately, due to time constraints, they scrapped this feature. Maybe if this and Adventure 1 get HD Remakes (like the Crash Bandicoot N. Sane Trilogy for reference), maybe we'll see some of the cut content from both games in here!
considering shadow is implied to be inspired by murals in the ruins of the echidna clan, murals which depict prophecies of sonic's battles, its entirely possible that sonic is *actually* the ultimate life form as shadow says, and is why he can withstand the chaos energy much better than shadow himself
Wait I thought Sonic only transformed into super Sonic 4 times, including Adventure 2, up until this point. All mainline games where Sonic turns into super Sonic up until this game: Sonic 2 Sonic 3&Knuckles Sonic Adventure 1 Sonic Adventure 2
Yeah it’s a good attempt at holistic story telling but it falls flat with the “reverse” incentive of losing. If there’s any consolation, they do have it so regardless of if you’re doing well or not your starting ring count gradually drops
ngl this is what the Frontiers bosses (especially the new final fight) are missing This kind of dialogue can easily get grating (Generations), but in SA2 - 06 it really helps to make the setpiece even grander than it would have been without it Silent fights just feel kinda empty in comparison (also the not-so-subtle gameplay hints through banter would have been appreciated in Frontiers)
Imagine if Sonic was the original ULF , and Maria dropped the capsule with Sonic to Earth. That's explains why Shadow was on Prison Island , Gerald was working on him after the ARK accident. Also Shadow seems weeker than the original ULF (Sonic) , 'cause he can't run fast without special shoes (NO SONC LABYRINTH LOGIC) , and he literally dies in the end of the game , but Sonic not. As I remember there was a cutscene where Rouge told Shadow that his memory can be fake. But then the Shadow The Hedgehog Game came in with new writer and everything went shit with trash alien shit. Imagine what could be with the series if they went that way? I mean at least we could have 2 characters with backstory in the game franchise. SEGA WHY??????????
@@superfamily2094 He is. Except Gerald didn't make Sonic. Sonic's existence was prophecized on Angel Island, and in Lost World (the level in SA1). But then how is he the ultimate lifeform? It's likely that he is a scientific absolute; when you pursue the concept of ultimate life, you will inevitably come across a design that closely resembles Sonic. All candidates for the Ultimate Lifeform have one trait in common: the innate ability to manipulate Chaos energy. But none of those three can even touch Sonic's level of mastery. I can't explain it as well as Khonjin, the man who crafted the SA2 Megatheory: the ultimate explanation for every plothole, every inconsistency, every seemingly-present error in SA2's story. His inevitable conclusion was that Sonic is the real Ultimate Lifeform. The video where he crafted this is called Competitive Review: Sonic Adventure 2: Part 1. For the megatheory, just watch to the middle of the video.
@@zekeram129 I can't even look on the games after Colors. With Roger Craig Smith Sonic is now a garbage , joking every scene. The writers changed and now Shadow is just a rival for Sonic (just like Knuckles rn , but edgy) without any plot. Just look at Tails in the end of SA 1 and 2 , and then at his behaviour in Sonic Forces. BTW There is no Angel Island , no master emerald or anything basic from first games. New writers literally killed canon. If 30th birthday game will be like Sonic Forces or Generations , I'll kill myself. I know Generations was cool , but its just a compilation of old levels. Same as Mania. Please Sega don't make anything with power of friendship , it worked only in Heroes. Boost gameplay has become so bad in later games after Unleashed , but I don't think that Adventure style is good for nowadays too. What do you think about the new games?
@@zekeram129 Actually, based on known info, it's likely that Sonic probably was made on the Ark. There's a bit of juicy lore in the Japanese only "Sonic Adventure 2 Perfect Guide" titled "The Truth of 50 Years Ago..." taking the form of a report made by Rouge to her superiors (presumably the President seen in the game that she is working for) on classified data notes she stole from GUN about the history of Project Shadow that displays some notable inconsistencies with Shadow's origin. It goes into Project Shadow, what happened on the Ark and why it was raided, but there's an ambiguous period after Maria sends the capsule to earth where no one really knows what happened. It is clearly trying to leave some things ambiguous, such as if Shadow is a clone or if Sonic is involved somehow, this reflects what the games writer Shiro Maekawa said when asked about Sonic's connection to the ark, he said he left it purposely ambiguous. However, the report states that the whereabouts of the capsule that was sent to earth are unknown. If it was GUNs super classified info, then that means that GUN does not know the whereabouts of the capsule or what was inside. This is contradictory seeing as they had Shadow locked in their basement on Prison Island. If he was the original made on the Ark, then why do they have him at all? This all points to the idea that was also hinted at in this report, that Shadow is in fact not the original specimen and that he is a clone created by Gerald on Prison Island (presumably because he was forced to by GUN as they wanted the true ultimate life form and couldn't recover the original). This is backed up by some things Gerald himself says in SA2s ending, including stuff like how Shadow's memories were all fake and implanted by Gerald so that he would more efficiently seek revenge. He also says he "finished" the ultimate life form on Prison Island with "original data". This could mean either option is valid, except we have more evidence towards him not just finishing Shadow on the island, but straight up creating him there. This leads on to how this connects with Sonic. If the Shadow we see in the game is a clone, and the original Shadow was never recovered, then that must mean there is another Shadow either dead somewhere on earth, it having died on reentry, or that it's running around somewhere, seeing as it's immortal. Where did this thing go? And what was it? No one except Gerald, Maria, and the Ark researchers ever actually saw the thing, Maria sent it away before the GUN soldiers could really get to it. It could have been anything, Shadow's memories aren't reliable because they are canonically altered and fake at least to an extent. So what do we know looks almost identical to Shadow, has all of his powers, is also potentially an ultimate life form and has an extremely ambiguous backstory with zero explanation for his bizarre abilities... It's Sonic. It literally has to be Sonic. Sonic must have been the original life form that was sent to earth, and Shadow is his weaponized clone made afterwards specifically for revenge. This is the best explanation and provides everything you need for SA2s story to suddenly make perfect sense. Sonic even quotes Maria's last words verbatim in the last cutscene, right after he was quietly pondering what it means to be the ultimate life form. There's other stuff that points to it but I'll leave it there. I went into so much detail because It's fun and other people might read this and I want more people to know about this, it makes SA2s story so much better and provides a great dichotomy between Sonic and Shadow knowing they are potentially so deeply connected. As a final note, I see this often thrown around a lot, but I'm pretty sure there is nothing in Lost World (the SA1 level) that depicts Sonic. It just has a mural showing Perfect Chaos destroying the echidnas, no Sonic to be seen at least to my knowledge. There's only Sonic related stuff on Angel Island. In fact there is a statue in the background of Hydro City Zone that shows a fully accurate statue of Sonic, not even a weird looking thing that might be him like in the mural, literally Sonic himself standing there in the background, striped shoes and all. Gerald probably made Sonic the way he is because he saw stuff like this on Angel Island, we know he went there because of the Master Emerald shrine in Cannons Core. Biolizard and the Artificial Chaos was an attempt at doing Chaos, Sonic was an attempt at doing... Well Sonic.
@@Squishito There is an issue with this tho. Sonic is 15 and ages. So for that to make sense, he must have been in stasis for at least 35 years after crashing down on christmas island. How did he just randomly awaken?
so the hiding deeper lore way down the line in the final boss battle started(?) here (they do it in Shadow the Hedgehog as well) that's cool! I always liked this! the {discovering a huge secret and telling your friends about it} aspect of it, it's great! I found that some of the sonic games have great subtle story-telling like SA2 and '06 all throughout their games but don't draw explicit attention to it, so this sort of thing fits right in! thanks for sharing (:
I think in some ways it was expressed through mechanics in the way that as the fight progressed you didn’t get as many rings when they tagged in/out You were penalized for switching without dealing damage yes, but even after so many turns of successful hits your starting ring count got lower and lower
those clips take place during the transformation, not the fight itself(even tho amy responding to them is weird. eh, maybe she just listened telepathicly)
@@lpfan4491 Given that there ended up being using for during the fight in Sonic X would I assume there were indeed suppose to play during the final fight.
@@rynobehnke8289 Then the reason why they were cut was likely due to clutter. But I am still not convinced because they are actually set to play during the transformation. So they *are* cutscene dialogue.
His dynamic with Sonic in that game is a freak accident basically. Otherwise, his game gets a lot of unnessesary anger from fans compared to certain other games. Heck, he still clearly shows care for other people unlike Team memes racing.
Do you ever wonder ,where did sonic actually come from? Why does he have all this power? Why are there so many prophecies about him? Well yeah of course because he's the main character of the franchise, but I mean from a narrative perspective could there be a clear answer for that?, sometimes I wish the newer games would explore these concepts.
sadly,the games after unleashed dont give a damn about exploring any past concept anymore(one could see it as unleashed retconning the adventuregames,but i see it as the masteremeraldshine being the mainshrine that keeps the gaiatemples across the earth in check and that the only reason why sonic has to go them to begin with is that the masteremeraldshrine was destroyed)
@@lpfan4491i used to think that the emeralds originally existed in the Gaia temples but then were collected by the echidnas to be put next to the master emerald.
The Archie comics explore this way more than the games do. In that continuity, Sonic canonically has plot armor. He's an embodiment of chaos and controls fate itself as a result. It's pretty insane
I've beaten this boss countless times and I'm only now realizing that after time passes not only does the dialogue get intense but the whole area starts engulfing into flames, eventually turning the screen bright red. Such a cool unnecessary touch.
Not just that once the time hits 5 minutes you will lose same goes with the rings you will spawn with rings lower than 50 each time and it will get lower more
Sonic was telling Shadow to get back to the colony because he was getting weaker and weaker as the fight went on due to his inexperience with using his super form and overexertion of his powers, so Sonic was basically telling Shadow to leave the rest of the fight to him to finish up. And Tails and Amy telling both Sonic and Shadow to get out of there was most likely them telling em to flat out leave the colony AND Earth to save themselves so they'd at least live while everything and everyone is destroyed.
I originally said "How so" but I am just NOW noticing they are on opposite sides of the boss XD. When I was playing it I was too focused on the fight I didn't notice.
@@misterman7102 By the point of the ARK crashing to earth, Shadow was already exhausted, so most likely both him and Sonic lose their super forms (Sonic is more experienced, but he has a limit as well), all while everyone in the ARK and Earth dies. If you ignore Solaris, this was one of the highets stakes in the sonic series, if you failed it meant the death of literally everyone.
Shadow was made to be the ultimate life form but sonic was born as the ultimate life form. That’s always been my take on the deeper meaning behind that quote in particular
@@brahimilotfi9689 If the kids weren't scared by this point in the game, I doubt that would've been any scarier. Plus Nintendo already did that shit with Majora's Mask years before.
@@Densester Super Mario Sunshine, Twilight Princess, and Sonic Adventure 2 all appeared on the gamecube and featured a faker or dark version of the main character.
It may be that Sonic just has more experience. At the moment, Shadow has only been awake for no more than a week or so and it's his first time using a super form. Sonic has been doing this for years at this point so he should know how to properly maintain and maximize it's potential.
im noticing some weird deliveries by shadow. specifically when he tells you to aim for the red spots. did... ryan drummand record a couple of shadows lines?
I don’t get why sonic says “shadow i understand now your unstoppable” especially after all the other dialogue has been shadow struggling to stay powered up. Does anyone have an answer to this ?
Maybe sonic finally came to terms that shadow ain’t gonna stop regardless that it may cost him his life. All this dialogue was so good though, especially the lore behind it. But yes that part did confuse me some, but I think that is what it means.
Both are in terms with each other, Sonic admited that Shadow is unstoppable and will fight until the end, just like Shadow saying that Sonic might be the true ultimate life-form
It's a crusty translation error. It's basically Sonic accepting that there is no way of talking Shadow out of this. He can't be stopped, so unstoppable. Sonic is basically solemnly accepting that this is what he wants and this is how he wants it to end, and he's respecting that. But it doesn't work well like that when they use a word like "unstoppable". There's a lot of lines in the game that actually mean completely different things because of crusty translation, this is one of them.
I mean, what else could they do? At least they added a cool sparkle effect for Sonic/Shadow's detransformation. Unless you mean when the timer hits five minutes, then yeah, maybe a cutscene? Or how about when the timer hits 5:00, the hedgehogs lose their super forms, and then a cutscene of the ark entering the atmosphere, then eventually destroying earth and everything on it with the screen fading to black with nothing else and then going back to the main menu.
Why not? In Sonic's case, he only cheers him because if ARK collides with Earth, Eggman will also die. And as for Shadow, Eggman has no reason to hate him (unless Shadow playing the doctor like a fiddle to act out his grandpa's revenge plan counts).
Not knocking people but you must really suck at the game to actually hear all the dialog but also I feel cheated because this is the first time I'm actually hearing new stuff
I love all the dialogue explaining that Shadow literally can't sustain his Super form, which makes sense seeing as Super is a form Sonic has used multiple times, but Shadow is just now exposed to this. He also has his inhibitor rings, which are likely making it even harder to sustain Super since he can't control his energy on his own
What? That doesn't make any sense. Shadow's inhibitor rings wouldn't have made in difference how long he could keep his super form because they're not linked to the Chaos Emeralds. My guess is Shadow was burning through his energy faster than Sonic because at this point Sonic knows how to conserve his energy in his super form. The only reason Shadow was struglling was because of inexperience.
The inhibitor rings hold back Shadow's full power, so he can properly control it. Once he removes them it's unleashed all at once and it burns through his energy quickly and can't maintain it for long, so with his super state having those rings off will burn through even more energy, and due to his inexperience with using the full power of the 7 Chaos Emeralds it costed Shadow deeply, which is most likely why he couldn't maintain his super form long and then lost his memory.
I believe this has more to do with the fact that sonic is the true ultimate life form of the prophecy, while shadow is an artificial replica.
An imperfect replica
I think it’s also supposed to imply that Sonic’s potential is greater than Shadow’s: Shadow is near his limit, but Sonic still has room to grow even further.
It might have even been part of an abandoned plot thread, for this game to have been a stealth origin story for sonic
It's really unnerving with the characters worrying you more and more about how close the ark is to earth, and the screen going more red and sonic and shadow and the ark setting on fire. That's a climatic final boss that's more than just a fifty second time limit.
i just wonder,where were they supposed to go considering both the ark and earth are fucked at that poin?
@@lpfan4491 I thought it was implied that everyone (on ark and earth) would've died.
exactly. that is why i am wondering where the other characters wanted sonic and shadow to go.
@@lpfan4491 They would simply have no other place to go.
@@InfinityShrad yup that's the sad part
really wish that line at 2:39 was guaranteed to play at some point. It seriously shows so much growth from Shadow to be able to admit it.
Big agree I never stumbled upon it until the last few years with this video
Sonic 06 keeps his growth from this game in the story
Sadly the only game after SA2 that understands his character
It's guaranteed to play at the 4 minute mark when playing as Sonic in the fight, and keep in mind Shadow is basically a different character after Adventure 2 due to his amnesia and putting his past behind him to live a new life for himself. If Shadow never suffered from amnesia, then he'd definitely be much more different than he is now and how he was originally portrayed before working with Sonic to save Earth.
I didn't know Shadow was struggling to maintain his Super Form the entire time..
Makes sense though since Sonic would be used to it by this point
its cause sonic is the real ultimate life form (at least in the story of this game)
@@Safalmao They're both the Ultimate Lifeforms, it's just that Sonic was the one that Gerald based Shadow off of from the mural of Super Sonic in Sonic 3&K
@@omaralfar1666 there can only be one, and sonic is the real one, in the game right after this it was was said/shown that sonic was in super form flying from the moon, back to earth for "a few days", when shadow couldn't do it for 5 minutes!
talking about sonic advance 1 btw, which was released the same day as sa2 battle.
@@Safalmao Even in Adventure 2 and some games like Unleashed and Black Knight theres a lot of implications that Sonic is unaware of his strength
He used a Fake Chaos Emerald for Chaos Control which shouldnt even be possible according to Shadow you know, the same person who knows about the Chaos Emerald true nature
He is apparently unnaturally good natured to the point a shattered Dark Gaia cant corrupt him at all
And he is strong enough to move forward on things that really should make normal people lose their hope on life
Everyone: GUYS GET OUT OF THERE! THERE'S NO TIME LEFT!
Sonic & Shadow: 🧍🏻🧍🏻♂️
as epic as this game and boss fight is, im surprised nobody is talking about the fight being against a giant lizard with a satellite sized rod shoved up his ass
Very original insight.
i know there are a lot of younger sonic fans nowadays who might not be aware, but trust me, those jokes have already been made a thousandfold, we've heard enough of them...
2:33 This is what made Izuka-san to facepalm at Anime Expo when this line of dialogue was mentioned.
Tragically, Sonic fans aren't exactly renowned for reading comprehension.
wait sonic is the ultimate life form ?, then this confirms the theory that shadow was actually based on the super sonic drawing in the hidden palace zone .
Dude, I think Shadow was just giving Sonic a compliment
@@mayisaythatsasmashingblous5876 Well maybe, but the way he said it sounded like he just found the answer to life, and still you have to admit shadow being based after sonic isn't that impossible.
gerald has been to angel island and the mystic ruins too,so it makes sence
@@lpfan4491 Yeah. That mural of Super Sonic and Eggman is in the Hidden Palace when you fight Knuckles. That's why Base Shadow resembles Super Sonic and maybe the reason why Shadow is a hedgehog in the first place. Its pretty interesting in retrospect.
I thought it was pretty unclear where exactly hidden palace zone is,just that is within reach of the other places(where he caught rouge in sa2 next to the stage I forgot the name of,sky sanctuary,angel island and mystic ruins)
DANG! O_O
The dialogue actually warns of Shadow's disappearance after the battle!
I've gotten only as far as past the 3 minute mark for average gameplay, only reach the end of the time limit on purpose.
Thanks for the compilation!
These characters used to be... well, characters. Now everyone's a bastardized form of themselves.
@@supersonic8561 That's nice. It's as if we're not part of a hive mind and have our own opinions...
Ryan Drummond covering for David Humphrey at 0:52 and 1:22
I always thought those lines sounded weird
Really?
ryan still better shadow VA than the current one xD
Total bro
Ryan Drummond's Shadow voice kind of sounds like Kirk Thorton's Shadow voice.
Time runs out..
*shadow just fucking dies*
In other words, earth is destroyed.
yeah i agree with you HyperSonicXtreme
2:07 Shadows line hits hard imagine saving the planet full of the same people that took your only family right in front of you shadows promise to Maria is heartbreaking
Honestly, I find Sonic's line at 2:50 a lot more heartbreaking, because nobody on earth is waiting for Shadow, if one thinks about it.
@@lpfan4491 I know! It's such a sad line!! :(
gave me chills
Shadow: Here I come you creep.
Jim Carrey: Can u both hear me? Atmosphere entry in about 4 mins. Agent Stone make a latte I love the way u make them.
😂
Fun Fact: Most of the Shadow Dialouge here was done by Ryan Drummond
Didn't David Humphrey voice Shadow?
@@Zonefire15yes but during the battle against the finalhazard Ryan Drummond (the voice actor for Sonic) voiced shadow for most of his lines
Basically Jason Griffith before Jason Griffith in hisvoicing of sonic and sonics first meeting with shadow
1:38 my absolute favorite quote from this fight
You know, I always questioned why only Shadow "dies" when they both use the simultaneous Chaos Control after beating thr Final Hazard, but these dialogues between Sonic & Shadow answer my question! Not only does Shadow show immense exhaustion numerous times when fighting in his Super form with Sonic getting increasingly worried about Shadow, but he also lacks the experience being in a Super form in the first place, unlike Sonic who has used the form (outside of spinoffs) at least 5 times at this point! And four of those times involved Super Sonic fighting either one of Eggman's larger machines or Perfect Chaos in Adventure 1! While I wish you didn't have to wait until the 3-4 minute mark to hear these lines, it's still really cool foreSHADOWing for the ending! And it harkins back to the classic era of Sonic when he ised the Super form much more often at the player's whim since as long as you collected the Chaos Emeralds and 50 Rings, you could transform at any time! And fun fact: Originally, if you collected all this game's Emblems and unlocked Green Hill Zone (WAY easier said than done!), by getting an A-Rank in that Level, you would unlock Super Sonic & Super Shadow for multiplayer! Unfortunately, due to time constraints, they scrapped this feature. Maybe if this and Adventure 1 get HD Remakes (like the Crash Bandicoot N. Sane Trilogy for reference), maybe we'll see some of the cut content from both games in here!
considering shadow is implied to be inspired by murals in the ruins of the echidna clan, murals which depict prophecies of sonic's battles, its entirely possible that sonic is *actually* the ultimate life form as shadow says, and is why he can withstand the chaos energy much better than shadow himself
Wait I thought Sonic only transformed into super Sonic 4 times, including Adventure 2, up until this point.
All mainline games where Sonic turns into super Sonic up until this game:
Sonic 2
Sonic 3&Knuckles
Sonic Adventure 1
Sonic Adventure 2
@@tjz3158 You're right! I thought Sonic Advance 1 came out before Adventure 2, my bad.
@@georgecortes3416 Nah you’re good Advance 1 came out right after Adventure 2 so it just misses the qualifying line.
I never heard any of the dialogue past 2:00. So this is very interesting to me.
Live and Learn is one of the best pieces of video game music ever composed.
Brooooooo!!!!! This gives so much context on why Shadow fell.
The fact that he didn't have enough experience with his super form to maintain it after using chaos control?
When you take a hit, you won't be able to move
Sonic: O U C H
3:24
And so..... The Space Colony ARK crashed into Planet Earth and none at Station Square survived ever again.
Imagine it really ended like that. After all the character growth, bonding, and revelations, everyone just gets blown up. 😂🤣💀
Sonic Adventure 2 but Sonic & Shadow refuse to save the earth.
3:24 I think they used the same line in Shadow the Hedgehog, when you run out of rings against Devil Doom.
indeed but only changed the va of shadow so it doesnt sound the same
Really a shame that all the most interesting dialogue happens when you’re nearing a loss
Yeah it’s a good attempt at holistic story telling but it falls flat with the “reverse” incentive of losing.
If there’s any consolation, they do have it so regardless of if you’re doing well or not your starting ring count gradually drops
Same in Shadow the Hedgehog where you get touching dialogue from Eggman if you take too long
ngl this is what the Frontiers bosses (especially the new final fight) are missing
This kind of dialogue can easily get grating (Generations), but in SA2 - 06 it really helps to make the setpiece even grander than it would have been without it
Silent fights just feel kinda empty in comparison
(also the not-so-subtle gameplay hints through banter would have been appreciated in Frontiers)
Fun fact: unused lines in Sonic Frontiers Final Horizon seemed to suggest something like that was supposed to be added in the Supreme End fight
I think I've discovered what the ultimate life form is ...it might be you!
Imagine if Sonic was the original ULF , and Maria dropped the capsule with Sonic to Earth. That's explains why Shadow was on Prison Island , Gerald was working on him after the ARK accident. Also Shadow seems weeker than the original ULF (Sonic) , 'cause he can't run fast without special shoes (NO SONC LABYRINTH LOGIC) , and he literally dies in the end of the game , but Sonic not. As I remember there was a cutscene where Rouge told Shadow that his memory can be fake. But then the Shadow The Hedgehog Game came in with new writer and everything went shit with trash alien shit. Imagine what could be with the series if they went that way? I mean at least we could have 2 characters with backstory in the game franchise. SEGA WHY??????????
@@superfamily2094 He is. Except Gerald didn't make Sonic. Sonic's existence was prophecized on Angel Island, and in Lost World (the level in SA1). But then how is he the ultimate lifeform? It's likely that he is a scientific absolute; when you pursue the concept of ultimate life, you will inevitably come across a design that closely resembles Sonic. All candidates for the Ultimate Lifeform have one trait in common: the innate ability to manipulate Chaos energy. But none of those three can even touch Sonic's level of mastery.
I can't explain it as well as Khonjin, the man who crafted the SA2 Megatheory: the ultimate explanation for every plothole, every inconsistency, every seemingly-present error in SA2's story. His inevitable conclusion was that Sonic is the real Ultimate Lifeform. The video where he crafted this is called Competitive Review: Sonic Adventure 2: Part 1. For the megatheory, just watch to the middle of the video.
@@zekeram129 I can't even look on the games after Colors. With Roger Craig Smith Sonic is now a garbage , joking every scene. The writers changed and now Shadow is just a rival for Sonic (just like Knuckles rn , but edgy) without any plot. Just look at Tails in the end of SA 1 and 2 , and then at his behaviour in Sonic Forces. BTW There is no Angel Island , no master emerald or anything basic from first games. New writers literally killed canon. If 30th birthday game will be like Sonic Forces or Generations , I'll kill myself. I know Generations was cool , but its just a compilation of old levels. Same as Mania. Please Sega don't make anything with power of friendship , it worked only in Heroes. Boost gameplay has become so bad in later games after Unleashed , but I don't think that Adventure style is good for nowadays too. What do you think about the new games?
@@zekeram129 Actually, based on known info, it's likely that Sonic probably was made on the Ark. There's a bit of juicy lore in the Japanese only "Sonic Adventure 2 Perfect Guide" titled "The Truth of 50 Years Ago..." taking the form of a report made by Rouge to her superiors (presumably the President seen in the game that she is working for) on classified data notes she stole from GUN about the history of Project Shadow that displays some notable inconsistencies with Shadow's origin.
It goes into Project Shadow, what happened on the Ark and why it was raided, but there's an ambiguous period after Maria sends the capsule to earth where no one really knows what happened. It is clearly trying to leave some things ambiguous, such as if Shadow is a clone or if Sonic is involved somehow, this reflects what the games writer Shiro Maekawa said when asked about Sonic's connection to the ark, he said he left it purposely ambiguous. However, the report states that the whereabouts of the capsule that was sent to earth are unknown. If it was GUNs super classified info, then that means that GUN does not know the whereabouts of the capsule or what was inside. This is contradictory seeing as they had Shadow locked in their basement on Prison Island. If he was the original made on the Ark, then why do they have him at all? This all points to the idea that was also hinted at in this report, that Shadow is in fact not the original specimen and that he is a clone created by Gerald on Prison Island (presumably because he was forced to by GUN as they wanted the true ultimate life form and couldn't recover the original). This is backed up by some things Gerald himself says in SA2s ending, including stuff like how Shadow's memories were all fake and implanted by Gerald so that he would more efficiently seek revenge. He also says he "finished" the ultimate life form on Prison Island with "original data". This could mean either option is valid, except we have more evidence towards him not just finishing Shadow on the island, but straight up creating him there.
This leads on to how this connects with Sonic. If the Shadow we see in the game is a clone, and the original Shadow was never recovered, then that must mean there is another Shadow either dead somewhere on earth, it having died on reentry, or that it's running around somewhere, seeing as it's immortal. Where did this thing go? And what was it? No one except Gerald, Maria, and the Ark researchers ever actually saw the thing, Maria sent it away before the GUN soldiers could really get to it. It could have been anything, Shadow's memories aren't reliable because they are canonically altered and fake at least to an extent. So what do we know looks almost identical to Shadow, has all of his powers, is also potentially an ultimate life form and has an extremely ambiguous backstory with zero explanation for his bizarre abilities... It's Sonic. It literally has to be Sonic. Sonic must have been the original life form that was sent to earth, and Shadow is his weaponized clone made afterwards specifically for revenge. This is the best explanation and provides everything you need for SA2s story to suddenly make perfect sense. Sonic even quotes Maria's last words verbatim in the last cutscene, right after he was quietly pondering what it means to be the ultimate life form. There's other stuff that points to it but I'll leave it there. I went into so much detail because It's fun and other people might read this and I want more people to know about this, it makes SA2s story so much better and provides a great dichotomy between Sonic and Shadow knowing they are potentially so deeply connected.
As a final note, I see this often thrown around a lot, but I'm pretty sure there is nothing in Lost World (the SA1 level) that depicts Sonic. It just has a mural showing Perfect Chaos destroying the echidnas, no Sonic to be seen at least to my knowledge. There's only Sonic related stuff on Angel Island. In fact there is a statue in the background of Hydro City Zone that shows a fully accurate statue of Sonic, not even a weird looking thing that might be him like in the mural, literally Sonic himself standing there in the background, striped shoes and all. Gerald probably made Sonic the way he is because he saw stuff like this on Angel Island, we know he went there because of the Master Emerald shrine in Cannons Core. Biolizard and the Artificial Chaos was an attempt at doing Chaos, Sonic was an attempt at doing... Well Sonic.
@@Squishito There is an issue with this tho. Sonic is 15 and ages. So for that to make sense, he must have been in stasis for at least 35 years after crashing down on christmas island.
How did he just randomly awaken?
so the hiding deeper lore way down the line in the final boss battle started(?) here (they do it in Shadow the Hedgehog as well)
that's cool! I always liked this! the {discovering a huge secret and telling your friends about it} aspect of it, it's great!
I found that some of the sonic games have great subtle story-telling like SA2 and '06 all throughout their games but don't draw explicit attention to it, so this sort of thing fits right in! thanks for sharing (:
In the first half they were talking about the game mechanics of ring energy and sustaining the superform, the other half wasn't on game mechanics...
I think in some ways it was expressed through mechanics in the way that as the fight progressed you didn’t get as many rings when they tagged in/out
You were penalized for switching without dealing damage yes, but even after so many turns of successful hits your starting ring count got lower and lower
The entire thing doesn't have to be. Did you expect it to or something?
@@Zonefire15 what's bro talking about
I could have sworn there was a voice line with the President's aid or some other female voice beyond rouge or amy as well.
Those were unused voice clips. You can find them on youtube
those clips take place during the transformation, not the fight itself(even tho amy responding to them is weird. eh, maybe she just listened telepathicly)
@@lpfan4491 Given that there ended up being using for during the fight in Sonic X would I assume there were indeed suppose to play during the final fight.
@@rynobehnke8289 Then the reason why they were cut was likely due to clutter. But I am still not convinced because they are actually set to play during the transformation. So they *are* cutscene dialogue.
0:35
Knuckles: When you take a hit you won’t be able to move
Sonic : Ouch!!
Knuckles: I tried to warn you
Ooooooooooooooh, that was knuckles!! I was wonder who that was
I once took me more than 4 minutes to kill it, and I was tempted to wait until 5, but the red on the screen was motivating me to end it.
2:35 so.... what happened to his character in shadow the hedgehog where the respect for sonic go?
They want shadow to be someone he is not, so I guess he is more appealing? Though how is edgelord shadow appealing? SEGA logic.
@@nascarconnor1254 i hate how Shadow is represented now
He is just like that in 06 though
His dynamic with Sonic in that game is a freak accident basically. Otherwise, his game gets a lot of unnessesary anger from fans compared to certain other games. Heck, he still clearly shows care for other people unlike Team memes racing.
Gone with amnesia, and supposed to return in 06
Sonic and Shadow not giving a fuck about being engulfed in flames is badass.
Knuckles: "Sonic, when ya take a hit, you won't be able to move"
Ha! I've been there!
Do you ever wonder ,where did sonic actually come from? Why does he have all this power? Why are there so many prophecies about him?
Well yeah of course because he's the main character of the franchise, but I mean from a narrative perspective could there be a clear answer for that?, sometimes I wish the newer games would explore these concepts.
sadly,the games after unleashed dont give a damn about exploring any past concept anymore(one could see it as unleashed retconning the adventuregames,but i see it as the masteremeraldshine being the mainshrine that keeps the gaiatemples across the earth in check and that the only reason why sonic has to go them to begin with is that the masteremeraldshrine was destroyed)
@@lpfan4491i used to think that the emeralds originally existed in the Gaia temples but then were collected by the echidnas to be put next to the master emerald.
The Archie comics explore this way more than the games do. In that continuity, Sonic canonically has plot armor. He's an embodiment of chaos and controls fate itself as a result. It's pretty insane
@@alexbaribeault Except that the Archie Comics were just a spinoff. They were never canon.
Atmosphere entry in 4 minutes.
Live and learn 4 minutes 35 seconds
Thaaaank you!!!!! I beat this boss too fast to hear some of this. I really like that moment where they both compliment each other :D
This was totally new to me I'd never taken the full for 4 minutes, the dialogue is really moving
@@WannabeWryter honestly it is
I've beaten this boss countless times and I'm only now realizing that after time passes not only does the dialogue get intense but the whole area starts engulfing into flames, eventually turning the screen bright red. Such a cool unnecessary touch.
How would the fight possibly take that long?
Not just that once the time hits 5 minutes you will lose same goes with the rings you will spawn with rings lower than 50 each time and it will get lower more
At about the 2-minute mark, you can hear rumbling as the ARK gets near Earth's atmosphere.
Those lines of dialogue make too much sense and make me feel bad for not defeating the Finalhazard in time
Guys, hearing this with the OST “I’m with you” from sonic frontiers.. is amazing!
Wait if everyone is saying get back to the colony if you get to it you will still die
not really "get back to the colony", I think they're telling them to save themselves instead of dying with everyone or idk
@@leaonidasgames4277 They would still die cause the colony is still colliding into the earth
@@tjz3158 if you had said that 3 months ago I would be able to say why I think this is not the case, but since three months have passed I forgot
They’re just saying take a breather. Jeez
Sonic was telling Shadow to get back to the colony because he was getting weaker and weaker as the fight went on due to his inexperience with using his super form and overexertion of his powers, so Sonic was basically telling Shadow to leave the rest of the fight to him to finish up.
And Tails and Amy telling both Sonic and Shadow to get out of there was most likely them telling em to flat out leave the colony AND Earth to save themselves so they'd at least live while everything and everyone is destroyed.
I wish they had some indicator of how to switch. I only found out years later that you fly on the other side of the boss lol
at least 06 (for all its faults) fixed this by making you press the Y (for X360) or Triangle (for PS3) button to switch characters
Yeah lmao
I figured it was obvious.
I originally said "How so" but I am just NOW noticing they are on opposite sides of the boss XD.
When I was playing it I was too focused on the fight I didn't notice.
It would of been cool if they had a cutscene or a bad ending where it does actually crash into earth.
What wouldve happened to Sonic & Shadow? Would they have died in a final desperate attempt to stop the colony?? Float around in space forever???
@@misterman7102 By the point of the ARK crashing to earth, Shadow was already exhausted, so most likely both him and Sonic lose their super forms (Sonic is more experienced, but he has a limit as well), all while everyone in the ARK and Earth dies.
If you ignore Solaris, this was one of the highets stakes in the sonic series, if you failed it meant the death of literally everyone.
So you want it like majora’s mask?
2:39 what?
Yeah, really puts the entire game into perspective.
Well it does explain why shadow is a hedgehog
@@Nikotinbetyar That’s because Gerald Robotnik based Shadow’s design off of the mural in Sonic 3&Knuckles
@@tjz3158 Yeah, it also explains how Gerald made the jump from giant biolizard to tiny black hegdheog
Shadow was made to be the ultimate life form but sonic was born as the ultimate life form.
That’s always been my take on the deeper meaning behind that quote in particular
2:55-3:15 be sending chills down my spine 🥶
Tails, Amy, & Rouge already knowing Sonic & Shadow just failed & doomed planet earth.
*THat* *lOOkS* *liKE* *a* *HoMInG* *sHOt!*
Nice Lmao. At least the dialogue here is relevant
Best ending in a video game
u have to admit this is my favorite and possibly the best game in the entire series this game and sa1 deserves a remake those were the best games ever
Ryan Drummon’s Shadow voice is f*cking terrible, and I love it 😂😂
Idk man, I think he's the best shadow
That’s David Humphrey
@@LucarioShirona Ryan Drummond did some of Shadow’s dialogue for the Final Hazard boss. It’s pretty easy to tell which is which
Ryan Drummond didn't voice Shadow; it was David Humphrey. Ryan Drummond voiced Sonic. He honestly did a great job.
@@Zonefire15 Ryan Drummond does some of the voice lines for Shadow during the final battle. It’s very noticeable. I thought everyone knew this by now
Would've been cool if you let it go for five minutes that there'd be a cutscene where it crashes into Earth
Yeah but it'll make it scary for the kids
@@brahimilotfi9689 If the kids weren't scared by this point in the game, I doubt that would've been any scarier.
Plus Nintendo already did that shit with Majora's Mask years before.
@@linkkicksu weird how the best games are sequels where giant spheres fall on the earth.
@@Densester Super Mario Sunshine, Twilight Princess, and Sonic Adventure 2 all appeared on the gamecube and featured a faker or dark version of the main character.
You know how a big asteroid killed all the dinosaurs? This is the same thing.
is it just me or is there a few instances where ryan drummand is voicing shadow?
Yes, there is!
These lines to seem to outright confirm the theory that Sonic has a naturally stronger super form than Shadow.
It may be that Sonic just has more experience. At the moment, Shadow has only been awake for no more than a week or so and it's his first time using a super form. Sonic has been doing this for years at this point so he should know how to properly maintain and maximize it's potential.
@@hedgehoundable He's being powered by the Chaos freakin Emeralds. MrXBX's speculation makes more sense. It's much more direct and easy to notice.
@@Axxidous I mean... they're BOTH being powered by the Chaos Emeralds?
@@hedgehoundable Exactly. But I didn't say anything that this statement disputes. lol
@@Axxidous I actually have no clue what the statement is you're trying to make, if I'm being honest.
Anyone out there wanna do this same kinda video for the Japanese voice track that'd be dope
im noticing some weird deliveries by shadow. specifically when he tells you to aim for the red spots.
did... ryan drummand record a couple of shadows lines?
Yeah actually and he did some of knuckles in another game
Red spots? I think Eggman said that.
@@ohmeohmicah 1:23 No, that's Shadow.
Apparently David Humphrey wasn't available to voice Shadow when it got to this point, so Ryan took over.
@Yuki Naruto Source?
Knuckles and tails ignores shadow
I don’t get why sonic says “shadow i understand now your unstoppable” especially after all the other dialogue has been shadow struggling to stay powered up. Does anyone have an answer to this ?
Maybe sonic finally came to terms that shadow ain’t gonna stop regardless that it may cost him his life. All this dialogue was so good though, especially the lore behind it. But yes that part did confuse me some, but I think that is what it means.
NascarFan24 1992-present I think it was both s Sonic accepting that Shadow will fight until the end and as encouragement for the final push.
I could see it also being a translation error (although I prefer Nascar's reasoning)
Both are in terms with each other, Sonic admited that Shadow is unstoppable and will fight until the end, just like Shadow saying that Sonic might be the true ultimate life-form
It's a crusty translation error. It's basically Sonic accepting that there is no way of talking Shadow out of this. He can't be stopped, so unstoppable. Sonic is basically solemnly accepting that this is what he wants and this is how he wants it to end, and he's respecting that. But it doesn't work well like that when they use a word like "unstoppable". There's a lot of lines in the game that actually mean completely different things because of crusty translation, this is one of them.
that is an anticlimactic gameover honestly
I mean, what else could they do? At least they added a cool sparkle effect for Sonic/Shadow's detransformation. Unless you mean when the timer hits five minutes, then yeah, maybe a cutscene?
Or how about when the timer hits 5:00, the hedgehogs lose their super forms, and then a cutscene of the ark entering the atmosphere, then eventually destroying earth and everything on it with the screen fading to black with nothing else and then going back to the main menu.
yeah,that is what i meant.
@@Freshy10 That would be way too dark for a Sonic game
@@alexbaribeault Not really. If Zelda can do the mooncrash, then Sonic could have done the Arkcrash.
“OUCH!” “OOP!”
there's a timelimit?!
yep in the finalhazard battle, theres a 5 min time before the colony crash down to earth
Like SOME other video games, this will change dialogue in gameplay.
Know matter if the finalhazard wins or not he still dies even if he wins
Gutha!
Weird way for them to spell an audible grunt am I right
1:53
definitely a translation error
I got the same thing
@@blackdot105 What, you DON’T specifically say gutha when you grunt from pain? Pathetic
Eggman is talking as well
Why not? In Sonic's case, he only cheers him because if ARK collides with Earth, Eggman will also die. And as for Shadow, Eggman has no reason to hate him (unless Shadow playing the doctor like a fiddle to act out his grandpa's revenge plan counts).
can you do one for Sonic Heroes please?
Ouch!
Egg man
So is there a devil doom dialogue?
A Shadow the Hedgehog request already?
and a request for metal overlord dialogue
@@_Tzer I already tried Metal Overlord when I made my Sonic Heroes video. It's not as interesting as it sounds.
This is Sonic Adventure 2, not Shadow The Hedgehog.
@@Zonefire15 i was asking for dialogue as devil doom's got some if you take long enough eggman tells you you are the real shadow.
Holy shit.
Did you have an infinite rings chest on?
Not knocking people but you must really suck at the game to actually hear all the dialog but also I feel cheated because this is the first time I'm actually hearing new stuff
@Supersonicplushes5413 of course lmao I don't think anyone knew it would go this far tho because u didn't
Korone actually heard the dialogue and ran out of time because she kept switching characters and she couldn't land the last hit.
@@reemer911 You can actually just fly past the Finalhazard and they'll switch
0:00 did you use cheats
An emulator with hacks
Most likely yes as his ring count is at 999 and he never drains any rings
@@racerlord2329 wym "most likely" he obviously has mods
Oh no they didn’t, obviously you always start the final boss with 999 rings, OBVIOUSLY
Kinda hard to hear certain dialogue pieces when playing legit since you’ll run out of rings and die before a character says something
have you completed all this levels
Why wouldn't he have?