Turning Bronze Bushings on the Metal Lathe
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- Опубліковано 3 гру 2024
- I needed to turn a few bronze bushings for a John Deere zero turn mower - the originals are made of plastic and wear out quickly so I turned a few new ones out of Oilite bronze on the metal lathe. A quick little lathe job...
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Thanks you. Nice job.
My wife said I need a shield to keep me from eating chips when I am watching machining videos. Happy Labor day weekend.
When I was in the bearing business we learned the Oil-lite bearings were *sintered* Bronze or brass. Powder metal heated to *almost* the melting point. Not quite "cast" as such, hence the porosity. I don't remember if they were already oiled (long time ago). Still wouldn't hurt to soak them in oil before use. Here's an interesting tidbit: At another job we sold Roper pumps. The ones we had in stock came with Bronze bushings but sometimes depending on what the customer was pumping we took those out and put in Graphite bushings. Now you couldn't press those bearings in because they'd shatter! The trick was to *tap* them into place with a Compothane dead blow hammer. Plastic, filled loosely with lead shot. Sounds counterintuitive but if you hit them dead square and *just* hard enough the bushing would creep into place. Had to hit it several times to seat them. Every strike had to be perfect or the bushing would shatter! I was the only guy that could do it consistently (after some practice). Now the graphite bearings were stocked two floors up from the workshop so I would take FIVE when I went to swap a set (of four). Most of the time I wound up taking the fifth one back but every now and then (usually on the *last* hit) one would go *pop*! @#$%!
I knew Jerry Zoeller who founded the Zoellerpump Co. of Louisville. He told me that for submerged pumps for sewage and grey water he ordered his sintered bushings NOT oil filled. If the oil filled bushing runs in soapy water the oil would saponify (turn into a hard waxy substance) causing the bushing to cease up.
The instructions in olden days were to soak in oil for a day or more before use, but who knows what they are in our throwaway age. Not read instructions for many a decade so don't quote me on the time.
About the same experience when I was a pump mechanic repairing graphite pumps. Alignment had to be perfect and assembly force evenly distributed. This was back in the '70's so no internet and nothing in the available literature. The manufacturer had tooling available, but the company I was working for refused to buy it. Made my own in the machine shop.
@@littleworkshopofhorrors2395 Nobody adds oil to them, I have had plenty where I added oil, and the bush sucked it all up, and asked for more. They work best where you have a felting reservoir of oil in contact with the one face, so that it can absorb oil as needed, or where it runs in oil.
I learnt that the best way to get the oil in was to heat up the bushing submerged in oil in an old can, till the oil was nice and almost smoking hot, then let cool. The oil would then fill all the air spaces, and you could use a very viscous oil in there as well, with it penetrating well when hot.
@@SeanBZA i seem to recall SAE 30 or 40 straight non detergent motor was recommended .
My very first job when I got my first home lathe. I made 4 bushing for my Cub Cadet Zero turn front wheel spindles. I used a cheap Chinese lathe, and also used aluminum scrap I had. The bushings replaced plastic ones, and worked for several years, or at least until I wore the rest of the mower out. Good video as always.
A simple yet highly useful project. I will never forget my GR. XIi machine shop teacher showing us a piece of Oilite Bronze. To demonstrate the material, he heated it with a torch and you could clearly see the oil bubbling out of the bronze.
Your channel is such a pleasure to watch and always shows us how to improve our techniques thank you for sharing you knowledge with us Keith...
I work in a engineering factory and we do lots of brass parts,we have cnc machines with twin turrets which blitz parts like that,back when I first started I had to machine parts manually thou 👍🏻👍🏻
As always, I learned a lot. Thanks, Keith
i was drooling at your cart load of quick change tool blocks...
Wow great video. I enjoyed it beautiful to see you can make those bushings. God bless you and your family and friends and everyone..
Nearly all heavy equipment manufacturers have moved into using UHMW or other products such as Dupont's Vespel for a lot of their bushing and wear strip applications. One of the leading causes or premature wear on equipment was lack of lubrication. Bronze still likes petroleum lubricant that attracts dirt and dust that act like sand paper during movement. These newer plastics are engineered to just leave it alone and don't touch it. While people blame manufacturers for making things cheaply by using plastic, the fact is they are trying to improve on some out dated technology. It's been my experience that if a manufacturer used a plastic to not lubricate it. It will only attract dirt and cause premature wear.
Great video Keith, Thanks for sharing!!
Carbide may not be the ideal material to cut oil lite bearings. it tends to smear the surface and that closes the sintered pores, reducing the lubricity, A really sharp high speed steel tool will assist in leaving the pores of the bearing open allowing the oil to pass through. An added benefit is a much lower cutting pressure that will reduce the mark as seen in the video caused by the tool cutting when the tool is withdrawn.
Is it also true that reaming sintered bushings also closes up the pores?
John McNamara Yep, I only use carbide when I have to. Sharp HSS always cuts cleaner
I hate to see that tool withdrawal mark. I always made it a point to not leave that mark. I consider it the mark of a poor machinist or tool & die guy. Either that or you're working with a piss poor machine.
@@garys9694 - It's not a withdrawal mark, its an oil groove! :-)
@@somebodyelse6673 No, it's from failing to take the tool away from the work surface while taking it back to the start of your cut. When I first started my tool & die apprenticeship they taught me how to keep from doing it. OH SHIT, I just saw the smiley face. I guess I'm too serious, and this is an effin youtube video. Sorry about that!
Bronze bushings are awesome! Such a simple way of pivoting something, especially if you have an oil pressure driven system.
3.3K+👍 thanks again for taking us all along with you for the great work
Thanks Keith...
THANK YOU...for sharing. Very nice.
Excellent material for low speed moderately loaded bearings. I would set up an old vacuum hose near the work to carry the tiny chips away.
There are polished inserts available for Aluminium, they also work great on Brass and Bronze.
Little curly Chips, no Spray and a terrific finish.
*Nice little job, Keith.*
Weird, I don't recognize those as a John Deere part. Must be from a model we don't sell many of in my area. Yep I see they are used on the Lowes/Homedepot grade smallest zero turn. They must have been a problem as they went to ball bearings on newer serial numbers. Looks like they turned the spindles down to accept the bearings so a possible solution if these don't hold up. Am127304 is the bearing $9.81 ea versus $4.34 for the poly ones as of 9-7-2020
Good tip Brian!
I was going to say those plastic jobs didn't have anything to do with YOU!
Sounds familiar. I had a L111 bought in the late 90's which wore out the plastic bushings. Must have been the bearings you said cause they lasted for until I bought new mower.
I'd rather have a sealed bearing or even a bronze bushing than an oil-lite bushing for that application.
@@ShainAndrews Me too. Looks like the sinterd part would be a lot weaker than a solid piece. Crumble-ish as it was! Not able to take a shock load well and the dust and grit involved. Sealed or a pillow block would be better looks like.
Thanks for that video Keith. I have to make similar bushings for my Snapper mower. I was going to make them out of Delrin, but now I'm thinking of going with Oilite after seeing your video.
Great work Keith 🇦🇺
WE had some acme screw bushings on a large 120" wide back stand which held paper rolls up to 110" wide and 80" diameter, the oillight would wear extremely quickly, my dad located about 10 feet of a 12" diameter NAVAL BRONZE prop shaft and we had bushings made from the naval bronze, never had them wear out again, last I knew the machine was running paper in south africa.
Thanks Keith
Good job Keith
I always enjoy watching your machine work with this one being fairly simple. If these are bushings for the front wheels on lower priced JD mowers. My bushings were getting sloppy and stumbled across sealed needle bearing bushings that JD uses on the more expensive mowers. It was a JD part no. that dropped in place of the bushing. Never had to touch them I'll n 5 or 6 years I had the mower. That oil lite bushing will sure outlast the plastic.
Looks good as always enjoyed the video
Thanks. Appreciated. Yet another enjoyable and instructive video.
LOL, I thought I was the only one that still uses a Mit. dial caliper. Mine has served me well for over 40 years.Not boring before the parting ? Thanks Keith.
For those sort of jobs, where the bushings will be running outside, and with lubrication being at best minimal to nothing, plus water, I found a much better material to be an engineered plastic, I prefer to use Vesconite Hilube, which is hard wearing especially when you are using it with minimal lubrication, or where the shaft gets wet. The plain nylon version works, but the black self lubricating type is so much better in this sort of application.
Used them in applications with powder, which could not get contaminated with oil, and there they lasted many times longer than the oilite, and much longer than the plain nylon. Only thing is that your shaft clearances will have to be slightly larger, and there will be swelling as the material gets wet, so you make the bush outside slightly oversize to allow a tight fit, and the inner diameter I generally used a reamer to get the right diameter after installation. I typically made them 0.5mm oversize on the OD, and 0.5mm undersize on the hole, as I was reusing the old shaft, which was slightly worn, so it was reamed out with an adjustable reamer to get a sliding fit.
RPM wise you are going to be limited, but for most uses at typical outdoor applications it is not a worry. Wear wise any grit will embed into the surface, and not cause much damage, and it is hard enough that the shaft will wear more than the bush.
I was wondering why plastic - assuming that cost for the bushings would not be the only consideration.
buen video..gracias por tu tiempo
I've been told to use dead sharp HSS on oilite, because the nose radius on carbide inserts will smear the pores / grain closed. It works for me, but I don't do oilite very often.
Keith suffering from bronze dandruff... plastic shield to the rescue!
I've modified recovered or new clutch pilot bushings for quick fixes, they seemed to do well enough. Something to consider if you find yourself in a pinch, as automotive stores are usually closer. Price wasn't bad, either.
good to know. Down here in the sticks, we have 4 auto parts stores within a couple miles, but the nearest industrial supply is quite a ways away...
When I was an apprentice I repaired motors and when replacing oil-lite bearings we would impregnate the oil so I am not sure if they come pre-oiled.
you can buy it either way
I have those large oil lite bearing stock and it looks like the old gas filters with black specks through it.
Getting them dry is not as easy as you would think. Most of the time they are impregnated with 30 weight oil.
Nice Job Keith!
Steve
If all you had a lathe for was to turn bushings like this, then the lathe paid for itself. Any other job is a bonus.
I am surprised Keith did not machine the bore on the 1st op.for best concentricity,and avoid any clamping distortion on the 2nd op.
I remember there was a set procedure to load this material with oil.
What I was thinking as well.
Thanks for sharing!
GREAT JOB GREAT VIDEO, LET'S GO TO WORK...
Thanks for taking the time to show these small projects. I'm a woodworker with a mini metal lathe and this is exactly the sort of project I want/need to tackle.
Your depth of knowledge shines through and makes it an 'easy' to follow project for me.
Again, many thanks.
Stay safe.
Doc from Australia
Serviço perfeito, parabéns 🇧🇷
Nothing wears out like a Deere ~!
Whenever I’m manually OD turning brass,bronze I run the chuck in reverse and use an upside down tool so the chips spray down into the bed.
I also would have done that bushing complete then parted it. Too much chance for deformation of the wall on the second op.
When you bored it your bar was clearly deflecting and left marks when you backed out. Left a very poor finish inside. I would have thought you took more care on these.
Additionally you noted that he never cleans the inside out while he was making his measurements
Mike Cothran exactly! He measured it while it still had debris inside the bore.
Nothing personal towards Keith but he is a hobbyist. Everything he does is so so. He quit reading the comments years ago because he won't accept criticism thus losing any chance to learn.
Craneman I really can’t help commenting anyway, knowing what you mentioned. I said something on a video of his last year and he took a lot of offense to it. It was a simple suggestion on the way he was doing something.
What I like to do is mention what I’m thinking in the hopes that it helps someone who is making a legitimate part so it doesn’t get rejected by their customer.
@@Craneman4100w These comments are all RIGHT ON. I watch Keith just to see a machinist who doesn't care. He said it himself in this video when he made the remark about making thousands of bushings. He NEVER replies to any comments, I guess h gave up a long time ago.
Bronze bushes keep on turning, proud mary keep on burning! Bronze bush city limits 👍👍
Thank you so much for sharing this! As simple as it may, Iam new at this and Iam learning!:)
Ask Keith Fenner about turning with the cutter upside down.
Why not do the inside diameter before parting them?
The thin walls are better supported when inside the chuck jaws versus hanging out in mid-air, giving you better surface and concentricity. Also, he needed to bore out that relief lip in the other end, so all that happened in one boring setup.
@@kindabluejazz OK.👍
@@kindabluejazz with thin wall's you can deforme them only with jaw pressure...I prefer it bore before parting.......even with standart 3 jaw you put some run out....
kinda blue You’re completely wrong in this case. Turning and boring that one end in the same setup will provide the most accurate concentricity. Anytime you chuck on a finish turned diameter with a 3 jaw like he did and finish the bore there will be deformation.
Also, that relief area in the back is easily done with an internal groove tool. That entire part, of done properly, should be been parted off complete from one end.
@@justinl.3587 I'm talking about the deflection created by the boring bar on an unsupported thin wall hanging out in space. The gripping power needed to hold a tube in a chuck would be minimal, and a round part supported by 3 jaws would exert forces evenly, so deformation seems likely minimal. The deflection of boring the unsupported tube seems like it would be significant. I understand the lost accuracy of re-chucking the part, but I really don't know which way would turn out better, just going by general principles of stickout. Fortunately for Keith, most of the work he does is not 'aerospace accuracy' level. Here he's just replacing a plastic part, which I'm sure has much worse tolerances and deformations, and are likely just balanced out under working forces.
it's lovely to watch this done the proper way.
delrin, maybe better..good vid as usual cheers.
I'm just learning, so please forgive me if the answer is obvious. Why did you flip it around to bore it? Wouldn't concentrically be better by boring it in the initial set up?
I use an old face shield, usually clamped to the tool holder.
Those Delrin bushings should last along time. The Zero Turn must be mowing in grass with a lot of dirt patches that provides the grit that wipes them out.
I'm still learning, so forgive my question if it's a NOOB question. But when you had the piece chucked up the first time, why wouldn't you have bored the inside? What I've learned is that the 3 jaw can establish concentricity with almost anything, but when you remove a part and place it again concentricity is lost. So, while this is probably fine for mower bushings that were plastic and being upgraded to metal.... it just seems like it would have been more precise and faster to have done the inside bore while the material was chucked up the first time and before parting off the part. What's the advantage to the way you did it?
I’m also still learning so this is just a guess, but this way he only had to do a single tool change. He was making four of these.
If you know the precision is not required, there’s no reason to do things in the most precise way possible.
if you wrap the end of the insert with some tape it will force the chips down as it cuts through the tape
your work is a piece of fine art...pardon my ignorance that I had to ask you that at 9.51 in the video you are using a special caliper i don't know if its for measuring the inner diameter or for measuring the depth can you please specify whats the specific name of that measuring gadget you are using there -
Oilite is good for spinning shafts, but not good for high shock loading.
I have work with this material a couple of times. Man, one"s got to be real careful tightening the chuck cuz you can easily damage and squeeze the oil out of it and also change its shape
I'd definitely be curious for an update at some point in the future on how well these new bearings work.
I'm definitely no machinist, as my Micky Mouse 10x24 chinese lathe will attest, but as you cut into the ID dosen't the chuck jaw pressure affect the roundness once you thinned out the OD? I'd have thought to do the ID first while the wall thickness could assist in preventing that issue, then do the OD while clamping on the original sized bronze and in addition centrifugal force helps the OD round?
Why not do the I.D and O.D at the same time to assure their concentric, then turn around to do the step in the flange.
Instead of those fancy shield you can simply bend a peace of sheet metal strip and put it in between knife and tool holder,adjust it as you need and it will deflect any chip away from you.
used to do this in 1951 as a young apprentice.
Mr Rucker this lathe and you needs digital control.
Make easy the machinist life....
From Greece John Grizopoylos retired machinist.
Was hoping you'd explain more about Oilite.
pardon me may i ask you pls can u pls specify which tool is that you are using to check the internal ID of the bush- people do call it internal micrometer but there are so many types of internal micrometers- is there a specific name for this pls ?
I need to order a 50 mm bushing to mod my chinese drill press. While the cost may be moderate there I suspect I'd pay the machinist 4 times as much to actually enlarge the casting bores for that new bushing.
But Keith, part of the fun of working the lathe is finding chips in your socks and pockets at the end of the day.
You know you've had a big day when you find chips in your back pocket 😂
A REALLY GOOD day is when you have a hot #9 chip curl around your lip.
@@garys9694 Errrrrrrr....... OUCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Greetings from Germany. It's always a pleasure to watch your videos and see the techniques you use. But there's one point I'm wondering about, every time when you do lathe work. So do your lathes don't have scale rings on the handwheels? Especially when you work in axial direction with marks and the dial indicator. I hope it's clear, what my question is. Thank you very much!
Use a piece of brass shim stock or cut a piece of coke can and clamp it under the front hold down bolt on your tool. Put a kink in it so it clears the workpiece and itll direct any chips away from you
Hiya Keith
Why wouldnt you machine the ID at the same time as the OD? Your 3 jaw chuck wont be running true, so you will have concentricity errors. Plus the chuck jaw pressure will deform the part.
Concentricity is not a concern for the application. They 'work' in the range of maybe 1-2 RPM, tops.
Looks like it should work to me!
Nice!!
What brand bore micrometer are you using?
@ 2:31 Cupric metals (Brass, bronze, copper) machine differently from ferric. Chris at Clickspring has a good recommendation to use zero rake. ua-cam.com/video/pAngKHIZgyA/v-deo.html
It shouldn’t be plexiglass; as that’s acrylic and will shatter on impact. It should be lexan which is polycarbonate and will deform on impact (they make bulletproof windows out of the stuff).
Good morning from St John Parish, Louisiana 9 Sep 20.
Bit of a bugger to machine that oilite bushing bronze. Couldn't get a really good finish on it at all, even ground a new HSS tool with bigger rake, clearance and a decent radius to the nose. Still came out rough as a badgers behind, the bushings worked OK though.
Glad I have a woods F-23
Man, watching this video sure has me bushed... 😜
Is it true that reaming sintered bushings closes up the pores, and that’s why you bore them?
Ideally with a very sharp tool so you dont smear the surfsce and close off the pores. The best is pre sized, so you dont have to machine the surface at all, which why they were sold in so many different standard sizes.
Attach the screen from the other side and it won't be in the way. Just push it up to measure and back down to go.
Front wheel bushings for a zero turn mower?
They are on the spindles where they caster
Keith - I've heard that turning Oilite can close the pores. Is this not an issue with a sharp tool?
Bronze is not suppose to be magnetic but I have taken some bronze bushings off of machines and they are magnetic. What give?
I’m making similar bushes for my MTD. The plastic ones are a bad fit even from new. Strange that only the USA uses imperial measurements when the rest of the world is metric.
Please eliminate mid roll ads.
why not do both operations in one go ... make sure that they are true to one another .. (or will it be close enough as usual )
Il est pas compétent et il ose la diffusion sur UA-cam !!!!!!!
John Deere used to make indestructible machinery and it didn't hurt their business one bit. Now they make disposable machines with disposable parts. What are they thinking?
Attack of the killer bean counters! They’ve got an MBA.... and they’re coming for *your* product quality! And if you hear one of them chanting “value engineering”.... grab your tools and run! 😬
Plastic bearings last longer than bronze in this sort of application.
@@nerd1000ify That sounds physically impossible to me.
@@Landrew0 It's counter-intuitive but true. In a clean environment the bronze might last longer, but these bushings are not in such an environment! They are in the open, exposed to a great deal of flying dirt and dust from the mower. That dust mixes with the oil in bronze bushings and makes an extremely effective abrasive, which will grind down the bearing quite quickly. Plastic bearings running at low RPM (as is the case here) need no lubrication, so they don't suffer from this problem. The softness of the plastic also means they have good 'embedability' which basically means that when dirt does get into the bearing it tends to get squashed down into the plastic and held in place rather than constantly rolling around in the bearing and grinding stuff away.
Metal plain bearings also perform badly when the shaft is oscillating (which is the exact usage case here) because this sort of movement prevents the proper formation of the oil film that normally allows the bearing to turn without metal to metal contact. Once again plastics don't have this problem because they don't rely on an oil film. If you have oscillating shafts you should use plastic bearings (for low load, speed and cost) or the gold standard which is rolling element bearings.
...when using a 3 jaw chuck...
...always turn and bore all diameters to finish size...
...before removing the part from the chuck...
...a three jaw is not a precision device...
Was wondering why you didn't bore the ID prior to parting off then realized why when you machines that relief in the flange,well thought out plan.I enjoy your content and thanks for your efforts,they are appreciated.
You're in trouble now.
Why wouldn't you bore enough of the material to make the four bushings as the first operation instead of doing it four different times as the last operations? Seems like a time saver to me.
Boring small lengths is more precise than boring a long length. The stick out on the boring bar is less so it is more rigid.
@@ericpaul4575 That makes sense. Thanks.
Is it me or are you looking more fit?
Keith, by way no disrespect, I was a machinist for over 50 years, I don't know if it a southern thing or what but we never used the term thou. it was always thousands,
I have heard "thou" in the eighties on the Left Coast.
Look at the wikipedia page for "Thousandth of an inch". "Thou" is a correct term for 'thousandth of an inch'. The plural of 'thou' is also 'thou'. It's not just a southern thing. I've heard machinists from many different areas call it a thou. "Thousands" with an s on the end is uncommon to me... Thousandths with 'ths' is what I hear more. Does it really matter? As long as everyone knows what you mean and are on the same page, nope. I'm sure with that much experience you were a master of your trade, so no disrespect intended from me either.
'Thou' used since I was a kid going back 50+ years. I'm on the East Coast.
well it's a lathe ua-cam.com/users/postUgkxN9zrzkkhnjUF5PQbuA_B1gYdsfCu9k6z but it wasn't what i would have anticipated. Headstock, tailstock, carriage apron are manufactured from aluminum now not cast iron. The spindle diameter for the bearings is too small allowing for a few play in the spindle so I am using some blue Loctite to take out the play.
I hated those chips going down my neck!😖
Hi Keith, ever thought about employing a couple of squirrels and an odd looking cat or two to boost your ratings? (God i love youtube) sorry steve ... making mischief!
He got a raccoon in the shop roof in the last video. Though cute, a hungry raccoon can eat all but the fur of a kitty cat. .. and squirrels..
Make that 3 squirrels peanut and walnut have a friend lol.
Or a pretty girl with lot's of cleavage. 😊
Doesnt McMaster-Carr have about a zillion Bronze bushings avail? why would anyone need to make some-
Because some things are not standard sizes or in this case never designed for standard sizes.
@@Shadow63Wolf I was a Lawn & Garden field tech for Monkey wards in a previous life- Front steering spindles & bushings for a garden tractor ARE standard sized -
La base du tournage c'est de faire la maximum d’opération sans démonter pour avoir une bonne concentricité et ne pas déformer la pièce avec un serrage en mors durs qui déforme l’alésage surtout ne pas suivre cet exemple très mauvaise formation