ULTIMATE HUB VS MID DRIVE EBIKE TESTS!!!
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- Опубліковано 29 вер 2020
- STEVES CHANNEL
/ dudestuff
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Sick video Andy. Shredding the gnar!! Steve's custom Orange kept up with the ultra motor so I'm sure that will raise eyebrows. I might shoot a video comparing a Specialized Levo vs my bafang ultra bike. Keep up the vids mate and digging the new track towards the end of the vid 😁
A video comparing the two would be great 😁👌🏿
Good video nice to see the 2 being compared, have a mid drive myself love it, but thinking of getting your 5000w bike for myself Andy. Sent you an email with some questions looking forward to hearing from you Andy..
Andy /Steve loved da video keep it going guys can’t wait for da next one 👍
Do hub motors have any issue with curbs/stairs or bottoming out? Or is there enough clearance for them?
Not long found you two. I live close by, I'm definitely testing my build there, I usually row or hike there... can't wait to tear it up.
When does your vapor kits ship was looking says oct thinking of getting one
When do you think you'll have the battery and controller in the same housing ?
Great comparison and fair analogy .
Maybe do a leisire rough trail comparison with climbing and no racing , swapping bikes and both giving your opinions . Something for the average Joe .
Hiya Andy. I’ve just built a 1500watt hub motor bike with 52volt battery.
So my my question to you is. What’s the difference between the basic Chinese speed controller you get with the kit and a phase runner SC? And does it include pedal assist?
Would you recommend the investment to change it?
Cheers,Danny
What sort of rear drivetrain components do you use on the mid-drive bike to withstand the power?
Hi Andy been watching your videos for the last couple of weeks trying to find out because I’m not very technical computer I’m trying to find out where I would get bike like the viper and how much would it cost for your cells possibly made up
Awesome video and thanks for sharing your tips 👍
What Bafang display are you using..? And is it standard TFT or Sunlight readable TFT..? i can't see my screen in full sunlight (it becomes completely black.. I'm currently using the 750C and it is useless in direct sunlight.
Hello all, I am looking to make a ebike battery but i am stuck between two cells. Do i want to use the cells with a max discharge of 10A but 3500mah with 5 in parallel to make 50A or do i want to use cells with 20A so it would be 510A but with 3000mah. I am using a 1500w motor at 52v so it would be pulling 30A at most. Does it make a difference on the battery if i discharge it at a higher rate?
Thanks
Andy i have been watching u videos lately i am thinking of building an e bike for my self to get around on i was in a terrible car carsh and broken my back but thankfully i can still walk luckily so i get a lot of pain so cant really work that hard was wondering the best way to go thanks eny help will be appreciated
I have a trek Roscoe 6 2022 model can I put a 3000w" mtx 39 kit on it
Got much the same krona bike I’ve mounted my battery underneath the bottom tube with some additional straps good for stability,
You spoken about a 1500w motor pushing out 2700w what is that running through a phase runner,I have a 1500w motor with one of 52 volt batteries could run a phase runner for more power
Have you enabled field weakening on the Phaserunner to increase top speed? I can accelerate from a stop to around 60kph without changing gear on my BBSHD making it great for town use. It's possible to get to 80kph (50mph) in higher gears but probably not good for the motor starting like that.
Wow nice, are you using the mid hub 750w motor?
How fast does the hub motor go? And how many miles out of that battery?
Love ur work mate !!!
I’ve been building electric propulsion for 10 years. So what electric bicycle or vehicle do you need? All of them. Lol
Build for what you need. And size motor, controller and battery for the task 😁
Thank you for your videos here!!!
great video thanks Andy
Whats the helmet called?
mate where u get it?
Great ride love it thanks.
Can I put phaserunner on my voilamart 1500 kit
How does the hub drive handle uphills?
Hi! Andy can you have a dual supply or limiter which allows to switch from off road too road use to comply with the law please
Yes you can have profiles with a phaserunner controller and cycle analyst display. That’s a bit like what we do 😉
Noise wise, your bike seems noisy compared to hub or was that just the vid?
Keep up the reviews
The tortoise & the hare ... Thanks for another great test/review mate! I run a 6061 alloy FS frame with a 52v-21aH LunaCycle BBSHD w/ Hot Rod programming using a Shimano 3-speed IGH chained to 52T/22T gears. Huge torque in 1st gear and 47mph on the flats top end. I cruise with normal traffic & walk abouts at sane speeds and more than respect laws. I'm more than satisfied!
I wish they would change the law it is quite safe to stay up with traffic and what did I read 47mph 😃wohh 👍👍
@@AliMohammed-tq8ym Yeah, I agree and believe that traveling at/with traffic speed is safer than being an obstacle to it. I love 'flying' on two wheels!
@@cwitham69 How is it working out for you 10 months later? I am looking to do a similar build, anything I should keep an eye out for?
@@gingerichdylan9999 It performs really well. I really enjoy it. It gets a lot of attention on the roads too. I would invest in as much battery as you can afford and keep it at 80% only charging it to 100% when you're going to ride.
Hello Mr Kirby
Name is Eric
From Australia
I'm wanting to extend my range on my ebike
Batteries are 48v 21ah on my bike wanting to put 48v 40ah so have combined 48v 61ah
My motor is a Bafang M400 with a built-in controller with 17amps
Looking for advice
Worried the 61ah be to much for the M400 motor and controller
Your advice please
Hey Andy, A Good comparative video there, Well done.👍😊 I Agree on full on pace/top end speed the hub drive would be my first choice especially on roads & smooth dirt trails. Im Getting myself a GoPro Chesty soon so will post some full on rough / rocky & rudded out favourite local trails on my mid drive ebike build in the near future. Keep up those great videos mate👌😎🚵🏼♀️
Can you link the batteries your using pls
That ride looked fun!
Just saw the video of the trek diy build
How much for the kit
I’m in South africa
Great content really enjoyable to watch I think I'm going to get the rear hub motor at some point. What's the situation with the solar setup these days ? I set up 4 x 250w panels on a shed roof after watching your videos with a 1kw grid tie and it's working really good.
What is the track at 6:10? One of yours?
Which motor creates the least amount of resistance to the rider, while pedaling?
Same bike as in the frame size, wheel, metal and rider weight?
That was a blast nice one again.
Nice Video! I ride with a hub pretty hard offroad without any problem as you can see in my Videos. Even with a heavy QS205, you just need a good Suspension ;).
Which is better? Easy! Both! My ride sports a Bafang mid drive fed at 72v(bac800) and a 8000w hub with single speed cassette (52/28) 72v 72150 Sabo. Both are fed by two 72v 30amp hour parallel triangular. MUCHO TORQUE bro!
I there a clear cut winner here out of both bike. Would be nice to have a follow up at the end.
that intro was slick! 🤘🏻
I'll soon have a 1000watt front hub on my middrive bosch I wonder what it'll be like, but the guy says I'll cruise at 30mph 52v battery and bosch 400 battery for middrive
What bike is the mid drive one
Bomb it... haven't hear that saying since i was younger on a bike.. 🤣😂👍👍☕😎☕Great video you guys..
Hi Andy
Sorry not been around for while, just recovering from My 2nd brain tumour surgery a week ago today. Brilliant film this one mate, and I would totally agree with you, in that hub drives just edge it. Virtually no maintenance, no real noise, and as Electric Rider pointed out - "You don't even need a chain, let alone worry about breaking it!". And I do have both.
Andy just a quick question if I may.
I have a 1000 watt rear gearless hub setup, 48v 45amp sinewave controller, 52V 28ah LG MJ1 triangle pac. Top speed of around 36/37mph, should I upgrade to the phaserunner?
Cheers Andy
Is this the same watts?
Hi Andy .after watching your ebike videos have you. A recommendation of a decent front hub ebike motor for my giant mountain bike.26inch front wheel.I’ve had voilamart before and various controllers.my wife’s Victoria Pendleton ebike has bafang 250watt motor good range but less speed than I had.my 1000watt motor expired.don’t want spend too much.I did get 30mph from a ego power tool battery 56v 😀.Steve in Cheshire
When are you getting your ebike shop all in stock again most stuff are out of stock
Kirbebike.com is the new shop everything is in stock.
Grin has that GMAC geared hub with regen. 2500watts but some are peaking them at 4Kw. I love regen and because it’s a 5 to 1 geared hub, the regen braking brings you to a complete stop 😊. Omg. Now I have to build one.
$$$
@@coolhawk2003 also, geared hubs tend to overheat at high power compared with dd hubs
Thanks for your informative videos
You are welcome.
These hub drives are great! I've had mine for 3 years and gradually upgraded to a 72 volt battery with a 60 amp controller, running at approximately 3600 watts peak and it goes like stink off the line. sometimes the front wheel even pops up!
@9:14 I thought we were about to see a 'george, watch out for the tree' moment! 🤣
Andy was so close 🙈😂
if u need anything 3d printing iam just out of chelmsford
Love the smooth ride of hub motors no matter what.
I love my super smooth rear hub motor, it just keeps on cruising like butter
@@ianmangham4570 Do you think its op to build a mid-drive (bbshd) and a 750w front hub motor?
for some strong power🤭
@@arnaudsemelet6050 I'd go mid drive only as they're the best
On a mid drive do you need to lift off the throttle before changing gears (like pedalling on a normal bike) to stop chewing especially up hill?
You should do, some bikes route the gear shift through a sensor that cuts the throttle when you shift.
I worry about efficiency now with my bike. Trying to push out more km's with better matched equipment.
You should put your mid Drive in a gear that gives same Top speed as the Hub,. then do the test staying in that gear.
Can rear hub drive do pedal assist? I am thinking of getting the kit, but I do not want to turn my MTB bicycle to motocycle.
Yep
Great comparison and very informative, look forward to seeing more
Very nice and informative video.
Quite fun as well!
You forgot to say hub motor is much cheaper.
You forgot to say mid Drive is far superior to HUB Drive
Your mid-drive sounds like you have your mother-in-law on the bike.
Good video. Good test.
Andy are you planning on any more vids in the shed ?
How’s Sarah these days, she hasn’t posted in a while ? Hope she’s ok
Shorts??
Have both, if you are realy Mountainbiking on steeper hills and Mountains only the midrive works, as you have to shift to lower gears. However in rather flat Terrain the hub is a perfect Option.
My experience was the BBS-HD had *much* better pulling power compared to a 750 watt hub, and was significantly more efficient regarding power per mile/kilometer.
It was also nearly *silent,* even if the hub wasn’t particularly noisy. Mobil 28 grease in both...
Midland Motors is far superior to the hub
would be hub efficient for up to 15 degrees hills? most are under 10, but there are some steep sections where it get 12+... or would it be better to buy 1000/1500 mid drive and get slightly lower top speed?
The mid-drive seems to take it on acceleration from a stop but the hub-motor get better top-end. The middrive is shifting thru gears while the hubdrive is in high gear all the time. Seems to me the Hub rider can assist greatly with pedal assist... and smoke the mid-drive....?
What about the third option internal geared hubs
I think you'd need a mid mount motor for that since it would work exactly the same way as a derailer drivetrain. Unless you mean IGH hub motor, not sure they have those. Hub motors just spin more with applied power, can you gearing inside them?
I run a geared hub at 2500w max.
It stonks a direct drive off the line and up steep hills.
Probably the best approach if you want the best of both.
which one do you have?
Which one
bafang go6 geared fatbike hub
The Same by me.
But If i juse a mxus fast Wind hub 11 KV the bafang has No Change - in both- top Speed and acceleration
both excellent bikes, I don't know how you lost the races because mid drive is meant to be faster at all speeds. is his hub really a 1500w ? he overdriving it to 3kw ?
How does a hub drive handle downhill, jumps, etc.,.. how much “weight at the back” does this hub impact the handling with jumps,etc
I have 1000w rear hub and they don't. Its like a ton of bricks landing and you end up destroying the rim. Mid drive if you want to do real mountain biking. A lighter 250w hub might be a touch better than a 1000w but still not good.
Why are your saddles set to low ? No good for pedaling
Hi I've got a question, could you build my ebike kit for me and how much would that be and also where are you located if I were to drove to you ?
really sorry we don't do builds.
That's fine
hardest part is finding a mountain bike frame thats wide enough at the back, I bought a fairly old pro mountain bike ( seems to have great suspension etc, strong built ) for 350 off ebay a couple years back, but even a 1,5kw motor takes up so much space at the back that you cant use the rear brake.
Mines fine. Got a 1500w motor on the back with hydraulic brakes. Voodoo hoodoo 2011
Nice subby btw Andy :)
Fun Fun Fun E-Bikes 😎👍
If you live in a hilly area, and with the right phaserunner configuration, you have REGENERATIVE BREAKING with the DD. Less brake ware, more range!
I'm thinking of adding a mid drive to my bike which already has a rear hub motor. The thinking behind this is I want extra torque for faster acceleration, but would probably switch it so the rear is only driving at max speed. It's a bafang mid, only 250w, but for intermittent bursts, I could probably shove 500-750w before burn... Might be a wheelie monster
I'm thinking about doing the same thing because the hub drive doesn't have enough power for steep hills.
I've done it it works so awesome mid drive brings the hub drive up to speed, Perfect for my hunting bike which tows a trailer and is really heavy
Yep, I went for it. Obscene acceleration but quite hard on the battery. Basically a single speed bike, no greater top speed but ridiculous torque for hills. I favour the hub and use the mid for getting away from the lights and hills.
@yoda does the mid drive motor make noise while you're not using it?
@@thespartenkid no, it's completely silent.
Name of music at 0:37?
Praise be to GrinTechnologies for the Phaserunner! Such a sweet bit of kit
HI what's the phase runner is it a controller please? Warren
@@20maxpower Yes it is a FOC Controller. Link for all the info here: ebikes.ca/product-info/grin-products/phaserunner.html
I like the phaserunner, but removed it for the Ludicrous(BBSHD specific). I still get 3kW @52v(58.8) but no wires to deal with, as it is a direct replacement/ swap/ upgrade to the original. For some motors, there are better alternatives, but not many that do so many different motors as well as the phaserunner does. My motor does run much cooler with the Ludicrous vs when it was on the Phaserunner.
I was thinking of getting a mid drive but that thing is loud asF
Id like to see how a big name mid drive runs with a phase runner fitted, if only I could find a cheap rocky mountain or the like...top vid as always andy cheers.
It would melt the gears most likely as the Bosch gears are plastic, unless you kept to the factory power levels I suppose.
@@andykirby bit late but try the yamaha pw. it has metal gears. no plastic crap like bosch.
On the vapor, move the thumb throttle to the left side and you may be able to shift gears with the right hand easier.
Hmm on the left it would feel really weird.
Yeah i run a left handed thumb throttle on my ebike with a 11 speed Gear selector on the right. Its initially a little wierd but you do get use to it very quickly, makes changing gears alot easier & quicker. It might be an issue for you andy as you have a mid & Hub Drive ebikes so swapping between those bikes with different cockpit control layouts will be confusing ! 🤔😬
excellent video, except the music, i would prefer to hear the bikes. anyways the concept of this video and its execution was awesome. i wonder what the average hub size is and mid size for that matter. i have several hub motors and people tell me their mid drives can smoke mine on climbs with their 500 to 750 watt mid drives, but i have a qs205 and another 9c 4k hub and can dump 120amp at 75v into them, it is hard to imagine having more torque without breaking the time space continuum.
edit: i just seen your name, i have been hearing about you since i built my first bike about a year ago. all good stuff btw lol
are hub motors able to withstand extremely rocky and bone rattling terrain? I am talking uk downhill series track level rough
No
No. That’s where mid drive comes in. Different machines for different jobs
Also why ebike downhill. No point
@@kanemeasham-pywell92 The point is that riding up hills sucks ass.
@@liam4686 we have a bus that takes the downhill riders back to the top on weekends locally
What bikes are these, I thought you had to pedal to get assistance?
DIY ones mate.
ARRHH the noise from that mid drive !!!!! Also I ditched the de-railer on my silent fs dd hub conversion {fixed in top gear}. 5 years no problem through the woods.
Haha! I quite like the noise actually 😃 but at the same time I love my other bike with the hub drive which is silent and ridiculously quick!
Mobil-28 grease helps (both kinds) in my experience. BBS-HD can be made nearly inaudible by greasing - quieter than a geared hub, in my experience.
@@dennisyoung4631 How is it that you grease the mid drive? Please answer.
@@karlfonner7589 from memory: (might have errors)
1)Remove the side cover. I think it had five 5mm socket head cap screws.
2) if there is grease present, remove as much of the questionable stuff as you can. I used up a fair number of q-tips. Hemostats help.
3) apply Mobil-28 grease, using either a grease gun, or a small spatula. Smear it onto the large gear *thickly.* Warning: this can get messy.
4) reassemble.
Note that there are other gears. I did not get at them. My next instance, I will try to lube every gear I can reach!
Note-2: Mobil-28 grease is an *aircraft* grease, and hence expensive. I bought mine at Amazon. It was about 23$ for one tube. I plan on getting the (nearly 100$!) tub next time, and repackaging part for sale.
@@dennisyoung4631 Thank you Dennis I appreciate your help and instructions
What about the other variables not mentioned? That is the differences in your programming between your and Steves phaserunner and also that he is running sensored with halls no? And your still in the sensor less which is bound to impact these tests no? Enjoyed the video and looked mega fun.
There's quite a lot of detail covered in part 2 of my bike build and phaserunner setup in much more detail on my channel
@@DudeStuff yeah I went over to your channel and had a watch of your videos. Look forward to your part 3 and your wee bloopers too had me 😂.
@@Bboymoped 😂 Hopefully be done next week, waited ages for the fabricator to sort the battery tray 🤟🏼
front and rear hub with a mid drive? :)
Replacement arrived!By the way, I did forget to mention that the original lure did have a decent strike however as most anglers will attest you can get a hit ua-cam.com/users/postUgkxCbNOWAGmn6nfbCbJDmasvBq7J38KZNw2 and fish will hang on and release lure. I used the replacement lure yesterday and ran thru a Shimano Waxwing, Kastmaster, Bobber (set to sink). I found the does run deep (I casting on the flats 3.5'). Make sure you adjust your rate of retrieve and rod tip angle (up) to prevent getting snagged on bottom. Used it a couple of times and action was very lifelike (looked like local bait fish for trevally), craftsmanship very good....however eyeball fell out. I asked for replacement and it is on it's way! It was very easy to change out treble to single inline hook.
Can you make a Bike with hub and mid-drive and front motor?
I was wondering the same
I have a mid drive (bbs02) ive never tried a hub drive. That being said i think id rather get the hub because theres less maintenance
If the gears and variability don’t matter as much to you I would definitely go for a hub motor, I currently have the bbs02 set up and have had a hub motor before but I like this one a lot more because of the adjustability on the go. I definitely agree on the maintenance aspect tho it can be a pain if you didn’t know anything about bikes beforehand like I’d did.
@@robloxianmanz5047 yh i found out the hard way through trial and error abused till it was unrideable the chain ended up slipping with almost no load couldnt even pedal no electric. replaced the chainwheel and it worked for about 1 month then the chain kept jumping off. turns out i had a stretched chain😂😂 never ever replaced the chain since i bought it used 2 years ago. i recently bought a new chain and its smooth like new altho the 2nd and 3rd gear has issues but im just gonna use it on the 4th till i wear out the chain then replace both the chain and cassette togather.
Hub all day...no brainer..!
14:24 Because you didn't optimized the gears and you would have won otherwise with ease. And it also sounds like you have to low gearing on it.
Is he using a direct drive hub motor, or geared hub motor?
Direct
Thanks for the reviews. Enjoyed many a time. 1 quick question if you have time. Which is quieter? The hub or the mid mount? I suspect the hub right?
Yeah the hub is basically silent, the mid drive is quite noisy actually but I actually quite like the noise🤣
I am being told that hubs are costly to repair flats and they break spokes true or false
They are harder to change flats as the motor is part of the wheel, so when you take the rear wheel off you have the motor wiring to contend with, it's not a big deal, it involves maybe just cutting a few cable ties. Never broken a spoke but they can get loose.
@@andykirby Thank you Andy for reply , I now just not sure whether to use my bike and get a mid drive kit or just buy a bike complete ,but most are hub ,the bike shop said about the hub problems .I will only be street riding no off road mountain riding.
I wish I could get a ebike like this, but mines blew it's hall sensor in the motor, including the controller and I have little to no money to fix it or any support, so I might have to throw it all away.
You can use a phaserunner in sensorless mode on a motor without hall sensors. Also double check your motor as some have 2 sets of hall sensors.
@@andykirby I checked it, but it has a yellow, green, and blue wires, and a hall sensor plug and 3 small ones right on the rotor of the system. I fried something, I don't know. Display doesn't show the mph, battery level, nothing.
7:25 electric version of Top Gear Stig 🤣🤣👍
Hub seems a whole, hell of a lot more quieter than the mid-drive. That alone is the game changer to me. O.o
You are spot on mate, yet no one ever mentions this?