Top 3 WORST NERFS in Destiny 2 PVP History
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- Опубліковано 15 вер 2024
- Over the years there have been some genuinely awful nerfs in the PVP sandbox that changed things for worse, not for the better. Today I'm hitting the three worst nerfs in PVP history that should be reverted in my opinion! Be sure to let me know what nerfs you think should have made the list!
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I love watching the footage and seeing people remain in gunfights and not dodge out of them to smoke and grenade the corners.
Good times. Good times.
@@NeoCoyoteyeah sure
Tripmines? Slow Dodge? Buffed smoke from khepri's sting? @@NeoCoyote
@@NeoCoyote not really, there are abilities on all classes that are strong and frustrating. But one of those abilities on its own can be countered. However slow, smoke, threading & scatter grenade all at the same time while being blind to everything is just too strong and slows down gameplay.
Yeah but there’s like 500 broken builds in the game I’d say the next meta will be diamond lance primastic titan which is equally infuriating.
I would argue that the worst nerf to warlock was the 3.0 subclasses. It really stripped away the warlock’s identity and gave some of each aspect to all classes. Of look devour is on all classes now, ionic traces are on each class to, consuming a solar damage grenade for a healing one??? That’s gone and now each class has a healing grenade, the absolute firework fest that was bitten tree dawnblade (which is where ignitions came from) that’s gone and now all classes can do it but worse, speed boost which was a arc warlock thing is now in all classes, radiant melees??? That was a middle tree warlock thing also… at some points I just wish we had old subclass trees back
Titan was homogenized 10x more than warlock. Titan has no identity anymore
I really don't understand this sentiment personally. Yes, other classes can make ionic traces, but they don't have other things built into their kits to enhance those traces. Yes, other classes have Devour, but it's nowhere close to Feed the Void's enhanced Devour. Yes, other classes get Healing grenade, but Warlock has a whole exotic for heal nades and once again an aspect that enhances it (base heal nade is pitiful anyway). I get wym on the Ignitions thing, but I like that everyone's got those too. I don't understand this argument
hoping this doesn't come off too aggressive I don't mean for it to. just interested in discussion lol
The trees were soooo boring, glad that they are gone
They ALL lost a PART of their identity when 3.0 came out.
Holy L take man, never let this guy cook EVER again.
God, I hate sunbreaker nerf. Loreley was a herald, but then they've cut restoration twice. And solar 3.0 even nerfed ability regeneration rate of Sol Invictus, cut off damage buff, and no more sunspot on weapon kill
Then they just had to make it worse by nerfing all exotics tied to Sunbreaker
Rip Ashen Wake my beloved
Loreleis was a sandbox issue glad it got nerfed, but the nerf to restoration was something that may have not be needed.
Voidwalker seems to take a lot of the bad nerf. The one that stands out to me is when they reduced Handheld Supernova's damage in favor of the knockback, which doesn't even work most of the time. HHSN might have been a bit op right before the nerf, but this change decimated it in the crucible.
It was only so powerful right before the nerf because of the artifact at the time. This was the berf that made me hate bungie
Ophidian aspect. Rubber banding is still an issue on all classes anyways. Nerfed for nothing.
That sunspot nerf hit me where I lived. I mained that everywhere and it was fun and, if done right, effective as well. Good times.
I abandoned PvP for more then half a year because it’s all in shambles. Time to say goodbye…
Good. See ya👋
I'm gonna have to agree, one thing I loved about old solar hunter was the ability you got that gave you stability on weapons and improved super regen when you got precision hits (the tree that had 3-shot Goldie as the super), it was so fun and when they took it out, solar just felt kinda alright, it was just same as everything else, it didn't feel special anymore!
Man watching some of these older clips brings a tear to my eyes from the memories and how fun it used to be back then. I think everything went wrong when they started to focus on nerfing players instead of balancing the game. I'm talking about the slide nerf, the ae nerf, and the flinch changes that heavily benefit pulses taking little to no flinch.
Does the Sompee nerf even count since they walked it back after all the hunter tears?
They didn't walk it back, just changed it like 3 times. 1st AE penalty, then you needed your class ability up for Stompees to do ANYTHING, now the lateral movement of the jump is slowed to the point it's worse than warlock float.
Hunter tears or not, it can't be disputed that the Stompee nerf slowed game play down considerably and promoted the boring turtle and lane play styles we see these days.
If you watched the video you would understand that Stompees promoted gunplay instead of the BS we have now. Not to mention, with some very easy movement tech, bot the titan and warlock are both quicker than a hunter. The only thing we got out of stomps was slide distance and jump height / speed.
I for one love when hunters cry
Two words: Arc Web
Another nick pick is voidwalkers have to charge their grenades to get the upgraded grenade while dawnblade warlocks and striker titans can just throw the grenade without holding the grenade button.
I think that Is mainly because of contraverse hold im not entirely sure how how you could rework chaos accelerant and contraverse
@@shion2673
Just give them 3 seconds of really high DR after throwing a nade. Keep the rest as it is.
You mean nit-pick? Lol
@@VAVORiAL now the most important part what could be done for handheld supernova and the consume grenade for devour
@@shion2673
Just keep the overcharge, but only for HHSN. Devour, not sure. But I guess that Getaway Artist + Bleak Watcher has shown us that you can overlap these kind of abilities, one way or another
I, as a hunter main, personally believe we're basically immune to nerfing. Nerf one cracked playstyle and we will find something just as cracked in the same day
😭 ring around the nerds we goo
It's in our blood, we will always annoy and make ourselves laugh.
finally, one honest hunter main.
For real. It's like, "Oh you wanna nerf that? Well I'm sure you won't mind if we went to this thing!"
Change Gambler’s Dodge to a portion of melee energy returned instead of a full refund.
That would stop Hunter ability spam problems forever.
Sunbreaker being neutered killed a lot of joy I had in crucible. Being able to use burning meme with sol was fun, but yeah, the nerf to sunspots was way too much.
"Pvp is always better when the focus is moving forward, staying aggressive and using weapons" - TV. BUT when I put on my peace keepers- smg combo and run people down, I am the problem. I call double standards 😅
Exactly peacekeepers nerf at the end of the day was gun skill. It's not like they gave you 100 aim assist or something
the smgs weren’t the issue, it was the abilities behind that meta that made peacekeepers annoying
Peacekeepers was never a problem.
Dude sunspot changes made the ashen wakes suck. I miss either getting a shot off witha 120 hc and then throwing the nade and watching people burn to sunspots. It was beautifully Chaotic and funny for well users 😂
Devour is easier to keep in pvp now. Filaments + the buff extension fragment gives your devour a TWENTY TWO SECOND TIMER. Voidlock is completely fine as is, and eating your nade for devour needed to go for chaos accelerant unfortunately.
Void Hunter gets built in Invis
Void Titan gets built in Overshield
Void Warlock needs an exotic to mimic built in Devour? Make it make sense
#1 Penumbral blast got nerfed within 72 hours of BL launch. Behemoth / Glacier dive took +6 months.
Factz
I never played much with devour, but I am still salty about taking away the melee range benefit of Ophidians. To this day I whiff melee final blows from half a meter away and get ganked ALL THE TIME.
Synthoceps would like to have a word...
I personally like it a lot more to get devour with an empowering rift than to sacrifice grenades for it so I my book that was rather a buff but the huge nerf to how long devour lasts is extreamly annoying and unwarranted I fully agree with that
But your sacrificing a longer cool down, and an exotic armor slot and mobility while trying to heal.
lol L TAKE
Great video TV 👍. Educational in a comprehensive and unbiased way. Comparing the past sandbox to the present, showing what worked in the past and then explaining why it worked. Exposing subclass imbalances with data. This helps players understand PVP philosophy, and how we can get back to dynamic gameplay.
Top 3 PvP nerfs
1. Making 390 pulses practically irrelevant compared to 340 and 540s - that arcetype was my bread and butter in PvP and felt so good to use
2. Nova Bomb tracking - It used to be so aggressive but now throwing a nova usually ends with them being able to outrun or sidestep it
3. (Not so much a nerf but still a major change) The health changes from the Feb 2024 sandbox update - I can't stand the sponginess and inconsistency in gunfights, if I wanted to play a PvP game where the strat is teamshooting, I'd play Overwatch
I completely agree on the health changes and hc changes now you have to run a 120 with precision or rose because thats the only consistent three taping 140. I literally shoot people with what feels like 20 bullets and they still live with 1 health because i didnt hit a maybe 1 extra headshot like they killed pvp and created an even worse team shooter with that one change
Why stop at 3? You could easily do Top 10 best and worst PVP changes. Would love to see it! 😁
3.0 changes to warlock were absolutely devestating A) for the devour changes but because B) they also nerfed overcharge grenades, specifically the void vortex overcharge grenade. They cut the damage from 34 to 23 (iirc) and added the suck-in effect. Those grenades i hesitate to call broken because they were so easy to avoid. Just… dont walk into it. So you could effectively use them for direct damage, weakening, or area denial but strangely enough after the changes they became absolutely useless. Theres a hidden delay before people start taking damage within the AOE and so you can direct hit someone and you MIGHT get 46 damage on them before theyre able to walk out. They absolutely suck.
Also im very surprised the 3.0 phoenix dive didnt get an honorable mention because of how useless it is now. It has niche use cases with heat rises but going from a flat ~6 second cooldown to a minimum 30 second to regen a tiny bit of health for what is effectively a movement ability makes you wonder why youd ever use it outside of meme builds. Its practically throwing away your class ability slot
Personally, as a warlock main, the saddest nerf was arc 3.0 when they deleted my arc web on top tree stormcaller. I loved arc web with storm grenades since d1. Truly tragic.
Then to rub salt in the wound they gave TITAN the most broken storm grenades ever. I was furious.
The 1% of solar titans is probably just people who forgot to change their PvE loadout. Nobody trying to win would touch it
Worst warlock nerf was the complete neutering of Arc Web, storm caller went from a really competitive build in pvp and really effective in pve to literally having NO place anywhere in the game
The worst nerf is what they did to scatter grenades in d2. I used them, paired with nothing manacles, religiously in d1 and they were amazing. Now they're a complete joke and no void grenades even feel good to use seriously in pvp anymore...
You're spot on about Void Warlock. I think Solar Titan just caught an unfortunate stray. Bungie wanted you to have to build into what the old sunspots used to do, damage, regen, ability regen, and generate another sunspot so they had get rid of it. Somehow they forgot to give us a way to actually build back into that though. :facepalm:
Bungie has a long history of nerfing specific things in order to steer players into other avenues of play. They nerfed Young Ahamkara’s Spine and trip mine grenades on Hunters before Prismatic even came into the game in order to push Hunter main’s away from that kit. They nerfed Antaeus Wards (again) on Titans so that they wouldn’t mess up the new axe super by deflecting them back because the window to use that exotic is so small that they’re basically just a cosmetic to wear that has no real purpose.
Instead of letting players make up their own minds about what subclass they want to use and leaving the original ones alone Bungie in typical fashion had to make sure that players gravitated towards the new subclasses which makes no sense because then why have the old ones if you’re just going to make them useless? If anything they should be buffing the older subclasses to compete with Prismatic so that it levels the playing field but that makes too much sense to do and would steer away from their new baby that they worked so hard on.
Instead of always trying to steer the community which has cost them a good percentage of players by the way Bungie just needs to open the throttle and put the pedal down. Make older subclasses viable against Prismatic and let the players go nuts because though I love Destiny it’s on its last legs and Bungie can either watch it wither away or go balls to wall and watch the game go out like a champion.
They need to rework pvp first of all. Like give us map voting, game modes where we can ban weapon archetypes or abilities so we don’t have to deal with unskilled weapon cheese, etc… And if ur gonna nerf things for pvp, don’t nerf it also in pve. Separate them
Jake is more likely than not directly responsible for all these nerfs because whenever the crybaby man child complained about something (even if no nerf was needed) Bungie issued a nerf a couple weeks later. He's made PvP awful just by being himself.
For warlock, worst nerf was making HHS not one shot. Titans get shoulder charge one shot, hunters their knives… sad
Ophideans nerf was unnecessary. Ppl forget transversives were nerfed a long time ago for ammo reload. It used to reload all guns. Also now if u swap to a gun while sprinting u have to reswap to get it to reload a lot of times while sprinting. It's annoying.
I am HERE for that Super Troopers reference
“You stop laughin’ RIGHT MEOW”
Het TV, could you address the approach Bungie has on PVP since D2 started against aggressive play style and needing of control the game?
They are against sliding, jumping, or any creative move(SC nerf). Now in comp, Collision you can kill many players but no points, only zones. Always team shooting is the way for them. Do you agree? Should the approach be different?😊
“Team shooting” 🙄, destroyed PvP on this game. After a long day of work I want to wreck some ish, not stand around a camp fire holding hands. It’s BORING and isn’t going to sustain anyone’s attention. IMO Bungie listened too much to the loud minority.
I love how in the Hunter category you’re talking about the current META being pure ability spam with Prismatic but you’re non stop chucking Tripmines and Throwing knifes… god I hated that META too. I just wish would go back to March 5th when Checkmate launched and people had ZERO special and super slow ability uptime, gunplay is seriously lacking in Destiny
This video is spot on. Bungie had some golden things took them away gave us a bag of dog poop and wonder why the player count is in the A N U S of a diseased cow
Personally, I hated the handheld supernova nerf. It was OP, but the charge time killed it for me. It's was supposed to be an "OH shit" push back, and not a destroy everything beam. Now it cannot kill, and takes forever to charge. I wish we could have the original charge time, and keep the dmg reduction to keep it in line
For me when the 3.0 subclasses came out it killed all the fun in destiny PvP.
I loved the chaos and kill chaining potential many of the classes had before, it made the matches faster paced and just more engaging.
Now it seems really reserved and slow with people spamming abilities that don't need to be earned and l, as you said in the video, replace the gunplay rather than enhancing it.
the stompies meta was awful because you couldn't move faster enough to see them go to the moon even with max sensitivity
Destiny won’t ever revert the game back to when skilful players stood out, and the lesser skilled players had to put time in to get better. Now there’s cheesy instant ttk auto rifles, sniper range pulse rifles and enough ability spam to make you cut the game off and go watch The Bang Theory or F.R.I.E.N.D.S
Watching this old footage is so nostalgic. Destiny used to be so much better than it is now. I don't even play the game anymore but if they came out and reverted everything back to this time period of the game, I would come back and play. No sbmm, far less ability spam, class identity, no rigged MM in Trials, just the good ol 3v3 playlist with card based MM. That sounds so nice.
Enjoyed the commentary. I too miss these things. They got nerfed shortly after I started D2 so I barely got to play with them...
Bungie thinks ability spam and nerf of movement as well as silly cheese weapons will close the skill gap. Of course they are completely hopeless when it comes to pvp and they need to remove the person in charge of pvp for someone who actually understands pvp. Skill gaps can not be closed because the cheesy ways they put in game to help lower skill players can also be used by skilled players and even with less movement they will still be better than you. Instead they drive off those pvp players and the game dies off.
The dismantling of arc warlock in both pve and pvp. Taking away the whole identity of it and replacing it with a melee
Void Warlocks should make hand held grenade used for damage like back in the days using hand held grenade used for devour they should use the same but for damage
As a warlock main, the devour changes hurt the most. I'll never forget the sheer fun I had with chaining kill after kill with devour, time-worn spire, and truthteller back in the day. I used this combo to beat the best PvP player in my clan at the time. I'll gladly sacrifice any new void thing Bungie has given us to get back the ability to consume your grenade and activate devour.
Arc 3.0 was by far the worst thing they did to warlock. They took ionic traces made them harder to get since now it’s only with ability kills and sometimes with arc dmg kills, then they made them give less ability energy, they made arc souls less aggressive, geomag stabilizers is completely unused in pvp and pve, chain lightning is ass. Chaos reach warlock was op for a time and it should’ve been nerfed but now it’s at a whopping .5% usage rate
41K/D is wild ☠️
What they did to the last word on mnk is a crime. Removing 150’s is up there as well.
void main for several years, the comment around 8:00 truly hurts to realize. even blink is better on prism bc you can dive out of the air if you made a bad blink
Imo the nerf to Hand-Held SuperNova takes the cake 🎂.
Dude the day solar 3.0 came out and they nerfed my sunspots was the beginning of the end-times for me. Siegebreaker was my only, ONLY pvp Titan identity and they stripped it away from me. Now I either play hunter or warlock or just cannot play pvp.
The worst nerf was to increase the charge time of supers. I used to be able to cast 3 stormcaller average per game. The last time I played like 6 months ago I only casted 1 while having 100 intellect :(
Anyone remember during Curse of Osiris when Warlocks could throw out infinite Nova Bombs in PvP matches
Top tree arc warlock was really cool and arc in general and some niche plays that were gutted hard. Nice vid TV!
I’d really like to see a lot of the one ability/subclass exotic buffs or reworks to be more unique and powerful. Not the “weapon damage boost” stuff they use on so many exotics now.
I was the biggest bottom tree sunbreaker diehard for so long and it still kills me what solar titan is now. Yeah it is actually very strong but it’s so boring and nothing like what I liked. Bare minimum sunspots should give you radiant. Titans used to be the solar class that could get a good damage buff, now it’s way harder to get radiant on Titan than either of the other two classes. Completely flipped.
I miss that Sunbreaker Titan Sun Warrior so much, man. When I got the hang of the kill chaining, I felt like I was unstoppable. And seeing this footage....it feels good to see gunfights and no Hunters throwing the kitchen sink at you every 20 seconds, and punishing shotgunners was so satisfying. I mean don't get me wrong it still is, but with the current abilities and the HC Shotgun meta seeming like it's coming back it's not the same. Every lobby me and my clanmates load in, it's that same guy running HC Shotgun with Prismatic Hunter and it's just a BORING, and I mean, BORING playstyle. No uniqueness, no creativity, just simplicity at its finest. Do I blame em? No. With Bungie endorsing this, it was bound to happen eventually. That's all I gotta say.
I wish they would at least rework the stompee nerf and just tie the jump height to the dodge, not movement speed and height
hot take here and a personal gripe with bungie. while i still think pks are super affective if you spec into mobility, it’s unfortunate they received a nerf when they werent the real issue. I’ve used pks since antiope D was first introduced in year 1 and they weren’t a problem for destinys entire life cycle until craftable ikelos and immortal target lock was introduced with OP titan 3.0 subclasses. even when the first shayura was introduced i NEVER saw pks unless they used tarrabah. i mained behemoth titan and was basically forced to used striker or void titan do to the lobby balancing and hard meta sweats i matched against. I was one of the few titans who was begging for a void and striker nerf so i could even have a chance against them using behemoth. so unfortunately, power creep smgs and terrible metas got my beloved pks nerfed. granted i still main them on behemoth cuz im addicted to the movement and it’s still as fun as before, but it’s unfortunate that an exotic that was rarely ever used for 4 years was nerfed bc bungie introduced broken weapons and 3.0 subclasses😢
Powerful friends mod +20 mobility part, quick charge mod, and range finder they might as well just remove it from the game ngl. These are my opinions though.
Give us our one shot shoulder charge back
Respectfully, The Striker who never changed their subclass is pvp since 2014.
No it doesn’t need to come back honestly
"Destiny's most annoying Dad" haahahaha that's funny shit right there 🤣
The biggest nerf was Bungie.
I would say every nerf that is cause by PvP that affected PvE is the worst nerfs ever.. no exceptions.
This videos is unbelievable underrated. It is a perfect analysis about what killed destiny pvp and I love it
I miss the old days when guns actually matter instead of abilities.
My top nerf(s) was the Titan shoulder charge nerfs. I stopped maining Titan.
@@jimmyjohnson6287 warlocks Icarus dashing every 5 seconds and instantaneously is fine though ...
Or Hunters AND warlocks getting a diving mechanic
"BuT iT cOSt A FrAgMenT SloT!1!"
Give Titans the shoulder charge spam, give Hunters Stompees jumping spam, I don't care... I just need double Icarus Dash back, plz
The thing that made a warlock a warlock was consuming a grenade to gain an advantage. We lost original devour and divine protection. I honestly miss having the pros and cons of each ability tree and having to decide whether you wanted to use your grenade or consume it.
Void walking Warlocks need a buff
I'd like to see a video on how you would update all the subclasses to bring them closer to prismatic. It would be fun to have a big rework but I doubt they'll do it any time soon.
My most disliked nerf is to Ophidian's. Oh no! Warlocks could snap a melee a couple extra feet. Today is shadow clone, shadow clone, shadow clone, shadow clone, smoke bomb, scatter grenade. Throughout the 10 years of Destiny Hunters have spent 90% of the time being broken or annoying, Titans 70%, and Warlocks about 20%
Prysmatic needs to be like the class items. The “spirit of” everything. Slightly lesser versions of things so you can use it all but it’s not as good as focusing one subclass.
You lost me at Stompees. But got me back at Devour.
At this point it's like beating a dead horse if you talk about Destiny.
Das war einmal as the germans say.
sunspot used to be one of the most broken ability in the game , stompe nerf are deserved and nore are still strong but not broken,and no devour on voidwalker is not nerfed into the ground
I think warlocks 3.0 subclasses across the board feel worse than before the changes.
*talks about hunter ability spam*
Shows footage of tripmine spam bulld and how it was his favorite...
Accurate, loved playing titan with sunspots, that nerf was one of the things that first made me stop playing.
Recent nerfs, Smoke Bomb as its intended function is dead
Swarm Grenades were never super potent and have recieved multiple nerfs over the years and not because they are strong but other things surrounding them.
Handheld SuperNova, in a world where titans have access to multiple one hit abilities including Thunder Clap why cant warlocks have the one?
Stompees are a re-skinned Bones of Eao no reason Bones of Eao cant exist anymore.
Bow Nerf, I know its not a class ability but there was no reason to nerf the weapon along side the health changes. The biggest complaint was two bodyshots were a kill well they arent anymore making bow THE LONGEST TTK of all time and they already had the 2nd longest bodyshot ttk in the game lol.
Since you mentioned Sunspot and Devour nerfs because Bungie doesnt want kill chaining. You missed one. Inertia Override on Arc Titan was my go to for kill chaining. Followed by shoulder charge nerfs.
As a warlock main, you’re wrong about the first two and very right about the last.
💀
Hardlight. Was good once in 7 years... now its literally just an autorifle with no perks or personality. They should give it back its 2x damage and infinite range, but add its crazy shacking recoil from year 1 back. This makes it a master of all, but with an extreme skill gap, like it used to be... bring my boy back 😢
Give warlocks their purple snack pack back. They still gotta win their gun fights to keep it rolling.
I'd say the worst hunter nerf was the nerf to trip Mines and the youngspine exotic.
I am still waiting for a cooldown buff in PvE for towering barricades since the nerf in PvP that basically doubled the cooldown.
Simply taking away Synthoceps melee range was it for me...
Titan shoulder charge nerf in PvP hit me in the feels
As a hunter main, I’m playing the smallest little violin for the titans and as for the warlocks, I honestly never even noticed avoid lock and crucible. They were always crouching on the Wells Oh yeah, and I was always a dragon shadow main
I hate ALL nerfs bungie have done to Solar Titans over the years, especially the bonk hammer delay nerf, I WANT TO SMACK THINGS WITH MY HAMMER GOD DAMNIT!!!
Been using wormhusk since it came out. I personally just like the survivability over the stompees hopping. . . Still holding onto wormcrutch to this day.
Wormhusk, Gwisin and liars enjoyer tbh.
I honestly believe they could bring back grenade consumption for devour again make it require a specific nade like vortex or something and only available only on voidwalker I hate that prismatic did exactly what i was afraid of make most of the subclasses useless😢
tbh this just made me miss the map “retribution” so much. Why was that taken out? It’s not the best but a decent one. Deserves to be in the game!
Classes 3.0 was the biggest nerf to warlocks in the game. All it did was take aspects of the warlock kit, nerf them, and then hand them out to the other classes. It butchered the idea of class identity and contributed to the sameness that we currently experience.
If I had the power, I would completely do away with 3.0. The old subclasses had their issues, and while I enjoy the the flexibility of 3.0 in getting to cherry pick what abilities I want to use, it is simply inferior to what we had going before.
Not just warlocks. 3.0 completely gutted bottom tree arcstrider. I used to main that but they destroyed my whole kit for the "benefit" of access to a spinny staff I didn't like anyway.
Totally agree with this list. The devour nerf to voidlocks really hurt as I loved that playstyle with so many exotics like huckleberry, bad juju, etc.
Old solar hunter used to have a passive perk that gave you reload, handling, and stability on headshot final blows - I miss it dearly
Stompy nerf was reverted a long time ago. No penalty to AE. Also devour on void walker is way better than prismatic for the crucible. You have wayyyy more options to triger it
These nerfs were stupid , I miss these things , as for my worst pvp nerf for warlocks was the removal of arc web