They are secure but there are privacy concerns. In Mexico, for example, privacy shouldn’t be an issue (there’s not so much digital surveillance from what I’m aware of) but they’re not the most secure.
The author is probably mislead by equating the bank being safe from bankruptcy, which is the methodology used for the rankings, and not your money being safe (from government seizure for instance). Among those 100 banks, if you take out banks located in authoritarian socialist countries where the government can seize at will (Canada like you mentioned, but also the US, France, Germany, Australia, etc.) you won't find many banks, if any.
This channel provides one of the most intelligent and valuable content available for free on the internet. Very balanced down to earth and extremely future oriented. A joy to watch.
What about keeping your money in several currencies, but through a financial service like Wise? When you hold a specific currency with them, they actually hold that currency in a bank that is in the country of said currency. This may be a way to have some of your money spread out into several banks/currencies around the world. If the value on one of your currencies goes down or the bank fails, it doesn't affect the other currencies you hold with Wise.
@@growingtoamillion It would be easier for a bank to go bust than Wise. Wise has their money spread out into banks in at least 40 countries around the world.
Don't keep your money on Wise. You're exposed to too much risk, but yes keep it in multiple currencies. In many countries (not really the US) it is very easy to open foreign currency accounts. I use HSBC for example. I can hold a ton of currencies with HSBC.
Many of the banks at the top of the list are not retail banks. They have no customer deposits and lend only to other institutions. Would it not be better to identify the safest banks for individuals or businesses.
I used 19 btc to buy 18 ozs of gold in Feb 2017. The btc was worthe $22K at the time. Today, that gold is worth ~$40K Today that btc is worth ~$1.2M Don't let that dinosaur-brain stymie your progress!
I invested in the US banks that went under thinking the stock would shoot back up losing five figures. Glad I didn’t go all in. Wish I knew about this channel before investing in failed banks.
Customer service is crucial, no doubt. Security shouldn't come at the expense of accessibility and support. By the way, has anyone consulted a finance advisor regarding choosing a safe bank and optimizing investments?
What you are missing is the largest American banks: Citi, Chase, Wells, and B of A are systemically important and too big to fail. The US govt implicitly backstops these deposits. The same can not be said for EU banks where during the Greek financial crisis, Greek EU deposits were frozen from being with withdrawn. You need a large economy to have a govt that is capable of backstopping all deposits, including foreign ones.
Andrew, As usual Great advice. TMI but, When I was in my twenties (now 63) I went up and down the Bonhaufestrasse in Zurich and opened several numbered accounts because of this very reason. I've established residencies that allow me to do business, live freely and bank because I established relationships early on in life.
Singapore banks may be safer BUT there is a cost in that it's difficult to get a decent interest rate on your deposits. Banks in Australia are paying north of 5% on transaction accounts. So, there's the rub. How much do you want to pay for that extra safety? My suggestion is to have a Singapore account with the minimum balance that will avoid fees and move more money into it as the perceived risk rises but not before.
what about winning a large lottery jackpot? you get taxed to death here in NY...im curious if someone has the good luck to win if there is a legal exit without paying 47% tax on winnings...
In Australia if you win the lottery, there are no taxes on any 'winnings' from gambling....that includes lotteries, winnings on any sports/racing, casinos, scratchies etc....what you win is what you take home....the problem is winning it.
You want a bank which you can access locally for large cash withdrawals and will process wire transfers reliably if the SHTF. You also want SBLOC on your stocks to access money same day without waiting 3 days for stock sales to clear.
@@gsingh5617 it‘s a development bank amd lends out money to insitutaions/companies maiy. It caters to projects such as infrastructure projects, innovation projects. Also does stuff like student loans. But purely issuing these loans
We, the public in the US, are presently learning that the most dangerous people to do business with are Nomad Capitalist. We should have remembered the last great depression. The Nomad Capitalist takes the money and runs, leaving the rest of us to clean up their mess. In fact, these capitalist have taken the money and ran in so many countries around the globe that it's dangerous for these capitalist to move to some countries. I suspect that capitalist are now in danger of not being welcomed in most countries considering the technology has given many of these countries the ability to see what is financially going on in other countries. It seems to me that these capitalist might need to mend their ways before no country will welcome them within their borders. Nomad Capitalist show that they are not loyal to any nation and thanks to technology, most countries are presently seeing how capitalist, in general, will infiltrate their governments and change the laws of that country to gain a financial advantage. Thanks to these capitalist own actions, their game is not far from being through. Sooner or later, no amount of money a capitalist possesses will make them welcome into a country. It's been centuries in the understanding of just how detrimental nomad Capitalist have been to past civilizations, but understanding has now been acquired. In fact, I would say that capitalist in general had better learn to mend their ways concerning government mettling or they might end up having to live their lives on their yachts because governments will ban them from even entering their country.
Gold is dead. The gold market is 99% fake paper gold. Try get any of it converted to real gold. You can’t. The gold price should have been at least 20k today but it’s not. Because paper gold.
Build an emergency reserve, including gold & silver physical bullion and untraceable cryptocurrency, like Monero [XMR]. Bitcoin is fully traceable (that's how BTC ransom scammers were caught); avoid it.
one of my collage I know in America (new york city) got a simple blood clot recently, so he went to nyu hosptial, the doctor amputated both his legs, took out 2 of his kidney and transplant, and did a heart transplant just because of a little bit of blood clot. I do not even trust american health care system anymore, if you get just a bit sick, the doctors will try to find ways to do an amputation and transplant one of the organs even for a tiny sickness, I do no longer see the point of staying in america because the health care system will find ways to supress the general public with its medical power.
for everyone who does not have access to these banks, the bitcoin ledger is the next safest "bank", accessible worldwide, accept everyone , even 1$ deposits, does not ask any question whatsoever, you can stake it and earn yield, or you can take a loan against it (max 50% colleteral) sorry had to do this comment XD
No. Any place I've tried to buy bitcoin, I have to give my physical address and my tax information, and it's laughable that you say, $1 deposits. I tried to buy on a p2p and they stole $40 that I was using as an experiment to see how well it went... thank Gd it wasn't more than that. So now I have two empty hardware wallets sitting empty.
Generally speaking I would say a bank in my home country (Antigua) however given how the US government has in the past few years has been targeting Caribbean banks I wouldn't say they're safe anymore
@pcac It is factually incorrect. I don't know what FCSE is, but FDIC (Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation) draws its funds from 2 main sources: Insurance premiums paid by participating banks and Interest (income) it gets from investments in Treasury bonds. 😂😂😂
While our primary services cater to high-net-worth individuals, we understand the desire for more accessible options. That's why we're excited to invite you to our Nomad Capitalist Live event. It's an opportunity to immerse yourself in valuable insights, networking, and strategies for living a global lifestyle, all at a more accessible level: nomadcapitalist.com/live/
@@8d4o0c4 well we talk about money here and Singapore is a serious country with a seriou regulator, not like Switzerland. I guess you have seen what happened in march 2023? would you consider Switzerland a reliable country after what they did? I and many other people don't.
@@jjones8813 if the lights go out are your paper dollars going to be good for anything other than wiping your ass? Are your $2000 gold pieces going to buy you a single chicken or bottle of water? If the lights go out people will be eating each other in 2 weeks, currency of any kind will be irrelevant
@@DjangoUnchained22 once again, if Quantum computing can break the 256 sha encryption on my bitcoin then they can also break the 256 sha military encryption on the nukes so we have bigger problems than bitcoin
UAE was on some banking ‘grey list’ in Europe and the UK, and I do regular transfers and transactions on my Starling Bank (UK digital bank) because free overseas banking. I got and email from Starling Bank, telling me that they will be closing my bank account in 3 months time, after they were questioning me about my Dubai transactions 🙄🙄 coincidently, this was the same day that UAE was removed from this grey list 😐
As a USC, I find it embarrassing that’s the best we have to offer in terms of security. It seems to be getting worse here while other options around the globe are continuously improving.
I’ve been following you Andrew for years but you still don’t get it. The safest banks in the world is Bitcoin if you hold your own keys and you know how to protect your keys. Any other traditional banks no matter what they claim, is not safe!
Who on earth would trust Canadian banks after their PM was able to freeze the truckers accounts? I’m still suffering from shock that this was enabled.
This Trudeau terrorist seized 30k of my russian Stocks, this bastard
USA will do that to you or anyone in a heart beats
They are secure but there are privacy concerns. In Mexico, for example, privacy shouldn’t be an issue (there’s not so much digital surveillance from what I’m aware of) but they’re not the most secure.
So secure you can't get your money if you fall on the wrong political side of the aisle.
safe for who? Any bank that allows any official force to freeze your funds isn't safe for you
Canadian Banks the top of the list not to trust
Any banks whose government can be influenced by US geopolitic is not preferred.
That's basically more than half of the world 🌎 😂
Tell the truckers how safe their banks are…
The author is probably mislead by equating the bank being safe from bankruptcy, which is the methodology used for the rankings, and not your money being safe (from government seizure for instance). Among those 100 banks, if you take out banks located in authoritarian socialist countries where the government can seize at will (Canada like you mentioned, but also the US, France, Germany, Australia, etc.) you won't find many banks, if any.
@@will4417 wonderfully put!
@@will4417ur a smart person for recognizing those countries for what they are. Authoritarian socialist *hitholes.
Banks are not to deposit money, it´s only to borrow money and pay bills, that´s it.
Thats a very valuable statement that I guess most people overlook.
Exactly
Traditional bank savings accounts will not make one rich because of super low earning rates.
This channel provides one of the most intelligent and valuable content available for free on the internet. Very balanced down to earth and extremely future oriented. A joy to watch.
Thank you so much for your kind words!
Banks are outdated and gold as well . ( Gov can change law overnight ) like in Cypress in 2009.
What is the option now Mr. Carter?
What to consider now days?
Alternatives please?
What about keeping your money in several currencies, but through a financial service like Wise? When you hold a specific currency with them, they actually hold that currency in a bank that is in the country of said currency. This may be a way to have some of your money spread out into several banks/currencies around the world. If the value on one of your currencies goes down or the bank fails, it doesn't affect the other currencies you hold with Wise.
And what if wise goes bust?😅
@@growingtoamillion It would be easier for a bank to go bust than Wise. Wise has their money spread out into banks in at least 40 countries around the world.
no protection or FDIC etc.
Don't keep your money on Wise. You're exposed to too much risk, but yes keep it in multiple currencies.
In many countries (not really the US) it is very easy to open foreign currency accounts. I use HSBC for example. I can hold a ton of currencies with HSBC.
I’m banking with an Abu Dhabi bank (ADCB Bank) and I’m very satisfied.
Gringotts is relatively safe.... only two known break-ins both in the 90s!
Many of the banks at the top of the list are not retail banks. They have no customer deposits and lend only to other institutions. Would it not be better to identify the safest banks for individuals or businesses.
I used 19 btc to buy 18 ozs of gold in Feb 2017. The btc was worthe $22K at the time.
Today, that gold is worth ~$40K
Today that btc is worth ~$1.2M
Don't let that dinosaur-brain stymie your progress!
you basing that on fiat value which is backed by nothing
@@fnuclone1229 Yes, in order to make a direct comparison at this time. Have you got a better way?
How is Bank of America on the list for best American banks it failed and got a buy out for their bad banking practices?
I invested in the US banks that went under thinking the stock would shoot back up losing five figures. Glad I didn’t go all in. Wish I knew about this channel before investing in failed banks.
I am pulling out of Chase. They have an extremely nefarious background.
I've heard Swiss banks are renowned for their safety, but I wonder if they are accessible for everyday banking.
Customer service is crucial, no doubt. Security shouldn't come at the expense of accessibility and support. By the way, has anyone consulted a finance advisor regarding choosing a safe bank and optimizing investments?
I do know saved money will save you But investing is always better for higher returns
@@Bigwilli123 i work with Nathan Travis Cook
He appears to be well-educated and well-read. I ran a GOOGLE search on his name and came across his website; thank you for sharing.
It's reassuring to know they can provide personalized guidance based on individual circumstances.
How about a video on which countries and banks are best for having brokerage accounts.
Safest bank is a cold wallet.
Interesting 🤔 💡
Facts
Wow, good to see DBS at #12. We thankfully have them here in India. Although I wonder, does that rating include their Indian operation?
The other thing with JPM is that it is by far too big to fail. There is precisely zero chance the US govt wouldn't bail them out if they needed it.
You could prop up the bank without insuring every depositor dollar, though.
What about if you have between 50K and 100k ? Which options would be good please
Banks in UAE do ask what you want to withdraw your money for. They want details!
What about how to avoid CBDC? What should asset allocation? Gold/Crypto/Real Estate/Cash?
Don't keep money in cash.
KFW Bank in Germany does not have branches or bank/ savings account services. They only lend money.
What you are missing is the largest American banks: Citi, Chase, Wells, and B of A are systemically important and too big to fail. The US govt implicitly backstops these deposits. The same can not be said for EU banks where during the Greek financial crisis, Greek EU deposits were frozen from being with withdrawn. You need a large economy to have a govt that is capable of backstopping all deposits, including foreign ones.
Andrew, As usual Great advice.
TMI but, When I was in my twenties (now 63) I went up and down the Bonhaufestrasse in Zurich and opened several numbered accounts because of this very reason. I've established residencies that allow me to do business, live freely and bank because I established relationships early on in life.
Singapore banks may be safer BUT there is a cost in that it's difficult to get a decent interest rate on your deposits.
Banks in Australia are paying north of 5% on transaction accounts.
So, there's the rub. How much do you want to pay for that extra safety? My suggestion is to have a Singapore account with the minimum balance that will avoid fees and move more money into it as the perceived risk rises but not before.
Geopolitcally Switzerland is a lot safer than Singapore. Banking access to Europe is also easier from a Swiss bank.
The Swiss Banks voted to pass the Russian money they froze illegally, to pass it to Ukraine!! Forget about Swiss Banking😂
No privacy in Switzerland
If I’m not getting yield, why not just use Bitcoin or gold or silver ?
The KfW Bank is a Government finance bank for only loans. you cannot open acvounts in this state bank
If you have cash, it should no longer be left in banks....
what about winning a large lottery jackpot? you get taxed to death here in NY...im curious if someone has the good luck to win if there is a legal exit without paying 47% tax on winnings...
In Australia if you win the lottery, there are no taxes on any 'winnings' from gambling....that includes lotteries, winnings on any sports/racing, casinos, scratchies etc....what you win is what you take home....the problem is winning it.
What is your opinion on credit unions?
How do you define "safe" here? Do you mean they have enough liquidity to survive a crisis? More privacy from government supervision?
You want a bank which you can access locally for large cash withdrawals and will process wire transfers reliably if the SHTF. You also want SBLOC on your stocks to access money same day without waiting 3 days for stock sales to clear.
You cant open an account with kfw anyway. It's not a traditional bank that has customer deposits.
not even german citizens or german firms could deposit something, the #1 spot from the list is off the table.
Who does it cater to?
@@gsingh5617 it‘s a development bank amd lends out money to insitutaions/companies maiy. It caters to projects such as infrastructure projects, innovation projects. Also does stuff like student loans. But purely issuing these loans
We, the public in the US, are presently learning that the most dangerous people to do business with are Nomad Capitalist. We should have remembered the last great depression. The Nomad Capitalist takes the money and runs, leaving the rest of us to clean up their mess. In fact, these capitalist have taken the money and ran in so many countries around the globe that it's dangerous for these capitalist to move to some countries. I suspect that capitalist are now in danger of not being welcomed in most countries considering the technology has given many of these countries the ability to see what is financially going on in other countries. It seems to me that these capitalist might need to mend their ways before no country will welcome them within their borders. Nomad Capitalist show that they are not loyal to any nation and thanks to technology, most countries are presently seeing how capitalist, in general, will infiltrate their governments and change the laws of that country to gain a financial advantage. Thanks to these capitalist own actions, their game is not far from being through. Sooner or later, no amount of money a capitalist possesses will make them welcome into a country. It's been centuries in the understanding of just how detrimental nomad Capitalist have been to past civilizations, but understanding has now been acquired. In fact, I would say that capitalist in general had better learn to mend their ways concerning government mettling or they might end up having to live their lives on their yachts because governments will ban them from even entering their country.
Thank You!.
Gold is the only money you can trust.
Btc is the only money sir
Shinny rocks will be going down in value. Better get some Bitcoin.
Naaa bitcoin is.
@@petewick8627 Only similarity is both are digital. Bitcoin is closer to cash in any other respect than to a CBDC
Gold is dead. The gold market is 99% fake paper gold. Try get any of it converted to real gold. You can’t. The gold price should have been at least 20k today but it’s not. Because paper gold.
what about uk banks, dutch and spanish or indonesian banks🤔
just avoid ing and rabobank from the Netherlands
I wouldnt trust Chase or BofA if my life depended on it.
From what i understand, banks everywhere are using fractional reserves. My question is which banks are the least leveraged?
Good question
canadian big banks are pretty safe, they work as an oligopoly and are regulated so they maintain provisions for bad loans and avoid excess leveraging
@@famicomnintendo is that a joke? Who wants that government seizing their money over protests?
Bitcoin is the safest Bank 🏦
Build an emergency reserve, including gold & silver physical bullion and untraceable cryptocurrency, like Monero [XMR].
Bitcoin is fully traceable (that's how BTC ransom scammers were caught); avoid it.
Pls make a video for stock brokerage accounts
What banks can you open an account online, from anywhere, that are reliable?
Great question, we have talked about some of our favorite banks in this video: ua-cam.com/video/HTKNXelF8Sk/v-deo.html
Whats your opinion about Wise?
Its excellent recommend @@martikaarellano1
Its great, i have an account@@martikaarellano1
Pakistani banks like HBL best as they are giving the profit rate of 20.5 per month on monthly plans, means you can take out money when ever you want
Pakistani currency is junk currency ,just like turkish lira and Argentina peso.
Any interst on money is eatenup by the currency devaluation😢
Can you please do a similar video on banking suggestions for Latin America? Thanks
It would be awesome!
if you need to launder HSBC and ANZ are good options
Thanks😊
I wonder how trustworthy the banks are ranked. We can't tell unless they are in a provable public ledger.
The strongest and safest bsnks in the world is the Chinese state own banks which is back by the government where every a account is guaranteed 😅😅😅
Potential for account being frozen is very high…denying you access to your funds
Own stocks in Swedish banks! Dont even try to do business with them!
I was pleasantly shocked to see RBC in Canada at the #10 spot.
Wait till next year after their HSBC acquisizition has been "digested" It may not be at # 10 anymore.
@@MarinaLaroche I had no idea they were acquiring HSBC. Thanks for the tid bit
FYI... HSBC Canada part only bro @@manavaatma
What about banks in Panama?
one of my collage I know in America (new york city) got a simple blood clot recently, so he went to nyu hosptial, the doctor amputated both his legs, took out 2 of his kidney and transplant, and did a heart transplant just because of a little bit of blood clot. I do not even trust american health care system anymore, if you get just a bit sick, the doctors will try to find ways to do an amputation and transplant one of the organs even for a tiny sickness, I do no longer see the point of staying in america because the health care system will find ways to supress the general public with its medical power.
Hmmm. Really? That seems - at the very least - "eyebrow-raising."
suuuuure ...
for everyone who does not have access to these banks, the bitcoin ledger is the next safest "bank", accessible worldwide, accept everyone , even 1$ deposits, does not ask any question whatsoever, you can stake it and earn yield, or you can take a loan against it (max 50% colleteral) sorry had to do this comment XD
No. Any place I've tried to buy bitcoin, I have to give my physical address and my tax information, and it's laughable that you say, $1 deposits. I tried to buy on a p2p and they stole $40 that I was using as an experiment to see how well it went... thank Gd it wasn't more than that. So now I have two empty hardware wallets sitting empty.
Would simply not renewing my US Passport be the equivalent of renouncing my citizenship? Left the US 30 years ago, never to return.
Generally speaking I would say a bank in my home country (Antigua) however given how the US government has in the past few years has been targeting Caribbean banks I wouldn't say they're safe anymore
What did he say about Indian banks?
The most important thing you left out of your analysis - do any other countries except for U.S. guarantee $250,000 on your accounts?
you forgot to elaborte about the fact that the FCSE insurance is paid by the tax payer... meaning you pay your own insurance via tax money 😂😂😂
@pcac It is factually incorrect. I don't know what FCSE is, but FDIC (Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation) draws its funds from 2 main sources: Insurance premiums paid by participating banks and Interest (income) it gets from investments in Treasury bonds.
😂😂😂
Germany up to 100,000 Euros per Bank and most banks will not take US citizens
@@georgesafrany5687 All of EU does.
Australia does. You can have multiple accounts with different banks , $250,000 in each and they are protected.
No one should be endorsing banks and I don't need to explain why
I just bought your book on audible! Looking forward to listening 👍
Same. I haven't listened yet either.
Glad to hear that! Share your thoughts with us 😊
The safest bank is my own Bitcoin hardware wallet
Turksih banking system is one ıf the best
Bitcoin is the safest bank in the world !!!
I wish you offered a lower end more scaled down service that was accessible to more people.
While our primary services cater to high-net-worth individuals, we understand the desire for more accessible options. That's why we're excited to invite you to our Nomad Capitalist Live event. It's an opportunity to immerse yourself in valuable insights, networking, and strategies for living a global lifestyle, all at a more accessible level: nomadcapitalist.com/live/
9:50 #34 is Sparkassen-Finanzgruppe ? everybody and their grandma bank there here in germany; seems my own money already there is safe then :D
I worked 6 years for the Zuercher Cantonalbank. Nothing special about it, just the local bank for the zurich canton
In the Cantonal Bank in Basel they would not even talk to me because of my US citizenship, and I live and work in Switzerland.
you are Genius.
Why did you ignore Northern Trust & State Street Bank which were ranked higher than JP Morgan?
What's the difference between the two
@@carleonking1852 the rankings seem to be based on a composite of the various credit rating agencies.
Can you leave a link for the site that you showed?
What do you think of investing in foreign currency in Singapore, as an alternative to US banks?
What about americans with less money
Superp info as always, thank you!
Thanks! 😊
How about wise?
*Nahh... all these banks deal with Riba (Usury/Interest). You shud really try Islamic Banking.*
I agree, can you recommend one.
So government had best chamce to take over all banking and data base
2,37 before you see any list...why not see the list and then decide if you want to hear more..no surprise with the list...
The problem is, do you actually believe bankers to tell you how secure they are? It’s comical 😂
Andrew, always negative towards the UAE. UAE banks have no better or worse service than European banks.
Singapore is much better than Switzerland.If you also trade and invest money then it should be very easy to open an account with a bank (broker).
Well, the skiing and the mountains are demonstrably better in Switzerland... 😉
@@8d4o0c4 well we talk about money here and Singapore is a serious country with a seriou regulator, not like Switzerland. I guess you have seen what happened in march 2023? would you consider Switzerland a reliable country after what they did? I and many other people don't.
8:41
Bitcoin is the safest bank in the world
Until the lights go out.....
@@jjones8813 if the lights go out are your paper dollars going to be good for anything other than wiping your ass? Are your $2000 gold pieces going to buy you a single chicken or bottle of water? If the lights go out people will be eating each other in 2 weeks, currency of any kind will be irrelevant
I would check Quantum Computing/Bitcoin/Lights out - if I was you.
@@DjangoUnchained22 once again, if Quantum computing can break the 256 sha encryption on my bitcoin then they can also break the 256 sha military encryption on the nukes so we have bigger problems than bitcoin
@@skranz7790 golds not going to save you after an EMP. The only value your going to offer people in that scenario is a mobile Happy Meal.
DBS last year had a huge amount of problems with whole system outages, people can't use ATMs , transactions etc
I wonder what you think of Citibank International Personal Bank in Singapore - US owned but incorporated and regulated in SG
thanks
Bitcoin is the safest
I need this
What about Argentina?
UAE was on some banking ‘grey list’ in Europe and the UK, and I do regular transfers and transactions on my Starling Bank (UK digital bank) because free overseas banking. I got and email from Starling Bank, telling me that they will be closing my bank account in 3 months time, after they were questioning me about my Dubai transactions 🙄🙄 coincidently, this was the same day that UAE was removed from this grey list 😐
If you want a safe bank, just use Bitcoin.
What happens if the CCP decides to reign in Singapore again!
No Charles Schwab? Most of the rich successful folks I know have an account with them.
As a USC, I find it embarrassing that’s the best we have to offer in terms of security. It seems to be getting worse here while other options around the globe are continuously improving.
What about credit unions?
RBC is good bank, but is red flag when goverment can freeze your bank account?
What was the reason for the freeze?
😂 I laughed so hard 😂
Canadian banks have too many loans on housing.
Im a singaporean! XD
I’ve been following you Andrew for years but you still don’t get it. The safest banks in the world is Bitcoin if you hold your own keys and you know how to protect your keys. Any other traditional banks no matter what they claim, is not safe!