Bartholomew I recognizes before the Pope the capacity of uniting of the Second Vatican Council
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- Опубліковано 10 жов 2012
- en.romereports.com After the opening Mass of the Year of Faith Bartholomew I, Patriarch of Constantinople, recognized the significant role played by the Second Vatican Council in the path to Christian unity. .
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I am Orthodox and I think of Roman Catholics and my brothers and sisters. I pray with them and I think they are as Christian as I am. All Christians must be one as our Lord is one with the Father. How beautiful will the world be indeed when there is visible unity in the Church of Christ. Christ is not divided.
Rowan Moses Beautiful message.
God bless you!
Clown.
Let's just hope for the UNIFICATION of the WHOLE CHURCH (East and West), that we may be one in faith and fidelity of Service in the Name of the Lord and the Glorification of God the Father, through the blessings of the Holy Spirit!,
SoliDeoGloria!
so many sectarian hate in the comments :(
Ecumenism cannot be achieved because of our theological differences. If unified, one must change, and the Catholics aren't going to change and I hope the orthodox doesn't change.
But Christ himself prayed that all might be one did he not ?
As said in the video. It won't be truly one, it will appear to be one but internally divided. It would do more harm than good. The Catholic Church has prevented us from becoming one due to their heresies, and in result have not only divided the catholic and Orthodox Church, but caused the Protestant creation due to their corruption.
Helena Haper Saying they are identical is just wrong
Robert Kosco
Which Heresies are we talking about? It seems to me that the Orthodox church does not acknowledge the chair of Saint Peter.
Then, when they had dined, Jesus said to Simon Peter, "Simon, son of John, do you love me more than these?" He said to him, "Yes, Lord, you know that I love you." He said to him, "Feed my lambs." He said to him again: "Simon, son of John, do you love me?" He said to him, "Yes, Lord, you know that I love you." He said to him, "Feed my lambs." He said to him a third time, "Simon, son of John, do you love me?" Peter was very grieved that he had asked him a third time, "Do you love me?" And so he said to him: "Lord, you know all things. You know that I love you." He said to him, "Feed my sheep.
John 21:15-17 CPDV
Jesus asks peter to be the pastor. This is why we have a pope with the authority of Peter.
Pablo Escobar
No they didnt, we went in to help. It was all a big miss understanding. Catholics thought they were left to die. Jesus, we didnt have txt messages back then. Without Catholic help, islam would have taken over your city.
Bartholomew should be having dialogue with the other Orthodox leaders.
All bishops in the early church had the same authority over their particular jurisdiction. The church was based and ruled by synods. This was evident in the Jerusalem synods, where decisions were made by a consensus.
Peter was a leader amongst the Apostles and represents the unity in faith. Your quotes do not infer an authority or rule over the church.
-_-apostle Andrew was the leader and founder of the Orthodox Church saint Peter was not learn your fax and your prob don't know shit cuz you live in a atheist country
This isn't true, Antioch, Alexandria, Rome, Constantinople, and Jerusalem Bishops had more authority than others since day 1.
The Orthodox did not leave anything. It was Rome who separated from the East.
No. New Rome was never above Rome or Antioch.
Pray for Unity+
We are one in resurection💝
Popes Face At 1:31 is like what is he talking about?
"Tendertrap86" can't get over the fact that the Orthodox rejected the Florence Council and papal authority. That says much about the papacy.
In questions on faith should be one and only one authority: Peter and his successors. That's essential for unity. Traditions and liturgy could remain the same in local churches. Every regional church could appoint representative to vote on Peter's succession.
Thanks for sharing. I have to research these things I am new to Christian History.
Right here is my question, most Orthodox say that the Second Council of Lyon's is not a true council. So I ask you what make's a council true?
I AM ROMAN CATHOLIC AND I LOVE MY BROTHERS AND MY SISTERS IN ORTHODOX CATHOLIC... WE ARE ALL BROTHERS!!! GOD BLESS US... THE 2 IDENTICAL CHURCH
Leonardo's Truth Some of those points are not true at all. They accept that the bishop of Rome has a place of primacy among all bishops, they accept the assumption of Mary (but not the immaculate conception), they accept an intermediary state similar to purgatory though not the entire dogma, and the different books they have are inconsequential. Other than the immaculate conception, filioque clause, and the papacy, they are closer in theology to us Catholics than any other group. You are correct about their hostility to Catholics.
psalmuel caldea we are in resurection amen!💝
Well said Leonardo's Truth. Perfect answer to these heretics
psalmuel caldea Amen!!!
"Rome has spoken. The case is closed." - St. Augustine of Hippo ("Sermon 131," 4th century A.D.)
"The blessed Apostles, then, founded and built up the church in Rome. They committed the office of bishop into the hands of Linus. Of this, Linus, Paul makes mention in the Epistles to Timothy. To him succeeded Anacletus. After him, in the third place from the Apostles, Clement was allotted the office of bishop." St. Irenaeus ("Against All Heresies," c. 180 A.D.)
Thank you and God bless family and friends amen
Then why is the Second council of Lyons not Binding?
I agree with you, that's what the terminology "first amongst equals" means
I hope that Pope Francis will change that.
That’s not what Jesus intended. Now you have orthodox bishops excommunicating each other
@@michaelj5168 thats because USA is trying to take control. Ever since 1204 Catholics have been laughing at us Greeks
Bartholomeou can go and be brothers with pope,but jesus wont let His church to be destroyed
Yes I have experience
You are missing the important facts. It was only a minority of the Orthodox that were part of the council. Mainly those of the Greek Church. The acceptance of the council was conditional upon its acceptance of an entire Eastern Council, Synod. I do not understand your issue with this. The Orthodox did not accept this political council.
Rome does not accept the Photian or Palamite Councils. The Photian council was ratified by Rome and then de-ratified.
Patriarch Bartholomew's Italian is wonderful!
No, the Patriarch, after a meeting with bishops, excommunicated both the pope and all of the legates. Soon after that the other Eastern Patriarchs followed suite. The separation occurred in 1054. There were attempts for reconciliation after that time, but the damage was already done.
And look at the result. Where is Constantinople today?
It was the Latin church that separated from the East in 1054. It was Cardinal Humbert that placed the bull of excommunication on the alter of Hagia Sophia.Rome wanted the Orthodox to capitulate to their demands and accept the Latin teachings. The Orthodox Church dates back to 33AD, the day of Pentecost. It was a minority of Orthodox that sought union with Rome in 1450 because of the Muslim threat. Rome was more concerned with politics than helping the Orthodox.
He's all yours...
Even though St. Leo rejected Canon 28, the east ignored this and continued to accept it. The west even later came to accept it.
Can you guys just watch the video?! Theres really no reason to start debating in the comments...
No. The consensus was that of reunion and that was the agreement meant at the council.
Why did the Orthodox even send emissaries they did if the "evil" papacy was behind the selections?
There is nothing false about Unity. There are only small disagreement in practice that still continue to separate the ancient Churches! Orthodoxy is in full communion with each other! The Anglican(Episcopalian) and Catholics will unite with Orthodoxy, for it is the lords will that we all be One. Then the Lutherans would follow suit. followed in time by the other main protestant branches, the smaller ones are very new and no not last long. Pray for Unity+
I do not understand your persistence with this. The Orthodox rejected the council and still do. They went against the political motives of the papacy. Again, there were a select few of Orthodox who did not represent the entire church.
The question you should ask yourself, is," How other Christians(patins) can blackmail and deceive their bothers?
Do you not know that st. Ignatius, the bishop of the very church of Antioch you speak of, who was made so by st. Peter, mentioned that the Roman church was ruled by Peter and Paul? The same Ignatius of Antioch first used the word Catholic, and said the Roman church "presided in love" over other churches. His see is today claimed by many Orthodox, Chaldean and Catholic churches, including the Syriac Maronite Church of Antioch, ever faithful to the Pope.
Who truly believes in Christ desires and works for unification.
WHAT IS IT YOU HIDING IN THE LIBRARY?? WITH 15K+ BOOKS? HMMM? why is there only around 6 people in the world can enter?
- "A council is true by the majority of the bishops." -
The Orthodox accepted papal supremacy and the filioque, twice at the Second Council of Lyon and at the Council of Ferrara-Florence.
But. Not afterwords
The Patriarch is speaking Latin not Greek?
Thank you, haha. But the Italian really sounds like Latin.
You are implying that historically all bishop's shared the same power which is simply not the case.
John Cassian, Monk (c. 430)
That great man, the disciple of disciples, that master among masters, who wielding the government of the Roman Church possessed the principle authority in faith and in priesthood. Tell us, therefore, we beg of you, Peter, prince of Apostles, tell us how the Churches must believe in God (Cassian, Contra Nestorium, III, 12, CSEL, vol. 17, p. 276).
I believe the current Pope could reverse the excommunication based on the years that had happened and then demand unity as per our common founder's legacy.
they have already been reversed on behalf of the Catholic church.At the end of the Second Vatican council
PicKolby: Calling people names and denigrating them works towards keeping us all apart, not bringing us together. Also, you should respect Patriarch Bartholomew's position, as he obviously respects the Holy Father, Pope Benedict XVI.
Stop being part of the problem and try becoming part of the solution.
I hereby excommunicate adamantis4657 and "ST PETER" for fighting and for not loving each another...
If they didn't represent the majority, then why were they sent?
+Bartholomew, "Archbishop of Constantinople, New Rome; and Ecumenical Patriarch," "First Among Equals" of the Eastern Orthodox Church, is the 270th successor of St. Andrew the First Called Apostle, who founder the church at Byzantium off the Bosporus, and he left Stachys, "one of the 70."
There are some 270 million Orthodox Christians in the world, the 2nd largest Christian denomination, who are largely concentrated in Europe's Balken States, Ukraine and Russia, or, as Patriarch Bartholomew has said, Between Alexandria and Moscow. This number of members is much more accurate than the bloated figure His All Holiness promotes. Orthodoxy is tiny in the West, perhaps some 1 million on North America. By comparison, Roman Catholic's constitute some 57 million in the U.S.A.
Only a select few were chosen on the part of the papacy.
The Orthodox did not accept anything at these councils. The point always missed or omitted is that the acceptance of Florence was conditional upon its acceptance of an Eastern Council. The consensus within the Orthodox Church was that the decisions made in that council were improper, then the statements made from the councils are not adopted.
What “eastern council?”
On him [Peter] he builds the Church, and to him he gives the command to feed the sheep [John 21:17], and although he assigns a like power to all the apostles, yet he founded a single chair [cathedra], and he established by his own authority a source and an intrinsic reason for that unity. Indeed, the others were also what Peter was [i.e., apostles], but a primacy is given to Peter, whereby it is made clear that there is but one Church and one chair. -Cyprian of Carthage
I never stated that catholics are not even Christians.
I can’t wait for him to pas in to the next world
I'm Byzantine Catholic- we don't use the rosary. :P
Do you do Chaplet?... Curious... What about Scapulars?.... Do you use these?
Christ never taught us to respect false religions. He taught us to love people. There is a difference. Christ and the apostles taught is to expose and refute falsehood.
Certainly, Bartholomew is not following that teaching, he instead attends and sends delegations to events with pagan prayers, gifting korans, ect ect.
Wait, so the Roman Catholic Church returned the relics they stole from the other Christian Denomination (Constantinople)? If so, that is a good start.
How to achieve Christian Unity? Christian Churches have different doctrines. So, if you are going to Merge two churches together what would you do? What doctrines are you willing to accept from other churches to promote Christian Unity? And what doctrines are you willing to give up to promote Christian Unity? This is how companies operate to Merge together! Why not Christian Churches?
God bless our Holy Father and the Catholic Church.
You do not have knowledge of the early church. The Orthodox Church functions as synods, just like the first church did in Jerusalem. When Christianity grew and spread, this form of church assembly or ecclesiastic council was the bases of the way the church was governed. It was Rome that departed from this.
I know the Catholic position on Virgin Mary. But I do not know the OrthodoxChurch position on the Virgin Mary. Was she sinless at her birth? Did Mary have more children after Jesus birth? Did Mary go to live with Saint John in Turkey to avoid persecution by the Romans and the Jews? Please tell me your position on the Virgin Mary. Thank you.
+josephsiler1946 What your position on the Mother of God? Whats your position on 2 Thesalonian 2:15 "15So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught, whether by word of mouth or by letter from us." Whats your position that all Apostolic Churches thats exist before your Church believe in the real presence? What's your position when Jesus says to his disciple "He who rejects you rejects me" and when he says " I will be with you till the end of time"? Do you think Jesus left his Church and allow them to be corrupted? Do you reject the successors of the disciples of Christ?
The Orthodox Church believes that the Virgin Mary was born like any other person, with the original sin, as a result of her parents prayers. So, God listened to the prayers of Joachim and Anne and blessed them, but Mary was born normally.
Mary did not have other children except Jesus.
Regarding your last question, the Bible does not tell us anything about the Virgin Mary and Saint John in Turkey. It is a Catholic belief and tradition, the Orthodox Church does not recognize the story.
A council is true by the majority of the bishops.
Your quotes are misleading. Peter represents a unity of faith, a primacy. This is the "catholicity" , whole and universal in the churches teachings. Nowhere in the early church did one bishop rule over other jurisdictions. For Peter was a leader amongst the Apostles not over them.
I am a Catholic.The Catholic Church is the Apostolic and Universal Church founded by Our Lord Jesus,
when he said to St.Peter,upon on this Rock,I will build my Church.(One Church)The Orthodox Church
split away from the Catholic Church in 1000 AD,if I am correct.(The Great Schism).The Church of
England was formed,when Henry V111,went against the Authority of the Pope.
So,I say to the Leader of the Orthodox Church,and the Leader of the Church of England.you must come
back in Full Communion with the Catholic Church and the Papal Supremacy of the Pope.That would
mean the Orthodox Church and the Church of England will not exist anymore.All their Church Buildings
will become Catholic Church’s.All their Religious Priests,Etc. will become Catholic Priests.The same
will happen,with all their Religious Orders as well.
Makes me happy when they all meet and pray together :D
Eucharist for Life, What would you do to promote Christian Unity? What doctrines would you accept from other Denominations? What doctrines would you change to promote Christian Unity? And what doctrines would you discard ? That is what companies do when they Merge Together! ! Is this what the Catholic Church wants to do? ? You know religion is not science! But I would accept a Vatican Three on this subject! ! !
The Orthodox decided to brake communion with Rome mainly for political reasons. The Norman conquest of Italy being the main driver of the 1054 split. Then in 1450 under pressure from Muslims, most of the Eastern churches repudiated their union with Rome, (again) and this is the split that persists to this day. The current Eastern Orthodox communion dates from the 1450s, making it a mere six decades older than the Protestant Reformation.
At least the Orthodox practice and teach the same faith and doctrines. What about the Old, Traditional and Independent Catholics not under the pope?
The Latin church is divided amongst various rites, Eastern, Syriac, etc. Some recite the Creed with the filioque, other do not. Some adhere to the "new" mass, others do not. Unity? Look in your own backyard before you make erroneous comments about the Orthodox.
Ora sing salah wongmu opo pihak liyo sing golek duit opo pengakuan. Nek koe urip dungo wes bar turu ngono terus sing meh nyalahke koe sopo??? Nek di salahke sauro salahku opo. Nek koe raiso jawab yo meneng tinggal lungo wes bar.
a true catholic doesn't listen to a rumors!
I like the pope
Bartholomew is a schismatic alright . Call a spade a spade. They have their soul in peril.
Pope John Paul once said this about Christian Unity. I wish all Protestant Churches would come back to the One True and Apostolic Church! I believe this Pope has the same idea when you read between the lines! ! !
as Jesus says no one has right to change or amend anything in his Gospel. only Orthodox church keeps and follows the original Gospel as it was written by Christ's apostles. Only Orthodox church follows the True Faith. Only Patriarch of Orthodox church is allowed to receive Holly Fire every Easter in Jerusalem
Bachana Pichkhaia
Jesus made Peter the pastor of HIS CHURCH.
The Orthodox church does not honor the chair of Saint Peter:
Then, when they had dined, Jesus said to Simon Peter, "Simon, son of John, do you love me more than these?" He said to him, "Yes, Lord, you know that I love you." He said to him, "Feed my lambs." He said to him again: "Simon, son of John, do you love me?" He said to him, "Yes, Lord, you know that I love you." He said to him, "Feed my lambs." He said to him a third time, "Simon, son of John, do you love me?" Peter was very grieved that he had asked him a third time, "Do you love me?" And so he said to him: "Lord, you know all things. You know that I love you." He said to him, "Feed my sheep.
John 21:15-17 CPDV
Nonsense.
No, wise guy, councils are decided by a majority. Florence is not a council or ecumenical in the Orthodox view because it was simple political. Rome arrogantly told those Orthodox representatives to accept the latin dogmas and teachings for their survival against the Turks. Political threats and blackmail do not constitute a council. This had nothing to do with the church but power and dominance by the pope.
The Orthodox refused to bow down to papal demands and political wants.
You are missing too many facts connected with this council. The Orthodox that were represented at the council were hoping that Rome would greatly assist in fighting the Turk invasions.Rome had their own political agenda, as always. The point is that the council was rejected by the majority of the Orthodox . Case closed.
There exists patriarchates in Georgia, Russia, Serbia, Bulgaria, and Romania. The patriarchates in Jerusalem,Antioch, Alexandria and Constantinople still exist. I do not get your point because of the Muslim takeover and majority, that this is a situation that the Christian minorities have any control of their situation.
How do you know what God's will is?
So what does that indicate. Heavenly mandate. I don’t think so.
St. Cyprian is stating a unity in faith. A primacy is given to Peter because of his leadership, not his authority over anyone. For the church is "catholic" universal in faith. Stop using quotes from church Fathers to support a hollow argument.
You are one angry misinformed dude
Am I intentionally wrong or is it Biblical Truth and Historical Truth? ? ? You look up what the Bible says and what History says and get back to me! ! !
The Eastern Catholic church is in full unity with the west. "What about the Old, Traditional and Independent Catholics not under the pope?" Yes it is sad that the Orthodox and protestant church's left.
Orthodoxy is no denomination, it it without denomination, it is pre denominational. It is the Apostolic church since the day of Pentecost 2000 years ago. The Roman Patriarchate was excommunicated by the other 4 patriarchates for its heretics, or heterodoxy.
The Roman church has blood on its hands. May Almighty God judge ecumenic 'Patriarch' Bartholomew and his heretic conduct.
Silly. I don't like it either but lets not make random accusations!
To understand Christian Unity we have to be tolerant and understanding of other Christian Churches points of view. We have to accept the diversity of other Christian Churches. We as believes in Jesus Christ are All going to Heaven!
I respect the authority of the Catholic Church. But I also respect the authority of the Orthodox Church. And the Lutheran Church. And the Prespeterians and Methodists and Baptists! I am a Catholic but I don't accept Every Doctrine of theCatholic Church! And this is One of Them! ! !
And the 40,000 other Christian denominations. The Pope warned watch what happens with the continued splits in the Church
Truthfully there was no split in 1054, Cardinal Humbert only excommunicated the Patriarch and the Patriarch only excommunicated the 3 legates. Hence the Split was more of a general rift after 1054. The real Split took place in 1450 when the Catholic's in the East were forced to brake communion with Rome.
It is thought that Virgin Mary lived in Ephesus Turkey and spent her last years there. She died of old age and her tomb is located near the House of the Virgin Mary! ! !
St. John brought Virgin Mary to Ephesus to avoid persecution by the Jews and Romans. He also wrote the books of John and Revelations there.He spent his last days there. He died and was buried next to the Brasilia of St. John! ! !
I don't know what kind of bible you have, but everything you write in all your comments is intentionally wrong. It is so important to you to misinform people?
can you quote the source?
No, you do not have your facts straight. Those Orthodox who who attended both of those councils did not represent the majority. Regardless of what occurred at that time, both are rejected by the Orthodox Churches.
I find your remarks either devious or outright critical of the Orthodox. Instead of playing this ignorant game of yours, you should be seeking the truth, instead of putting the spin on things.
THATS A LIE CATHILOCS DID NOT EXIST UNTIL 1054 Orthodox church is one holy apostolic cand catolikos it meant unibersal we use this term in nicea there was no catholics back then,,,
NONSENSE. Tell that to Saint Ignatius 110 AD
No, Joseph was not 80 years old! That is an old theory! Joseph was a young man engaged to a young woman named Mary. Luke 2, 6, 7 Joseph wanted to have children. But when he found out Mary was pregnant he wanted to divorce her! Matthew 1, 18, 19 It took an angel from God to convince him to stay with her and marry her! Matthew 2, 20, 21 Mary gave birth to Jesus her first born son . Matthew 1, 24, 25 Thereafter Joseph and Mary had 4 more sons and 2 daughters! Their names are written in the Bible! Matthew 13, 53, 54 And they were Not Cousins! ! !
Not cousins friend, but St Joseph's children from his first marriage. Do some research.
God bless.
Nonsense. Mary was ever-virgin
Анатема Вартоломеју, он није наш патријарх!
There you go. Orthodox “unity?”
PioKolby you should not call Patriarch Bartholomew a schismatic. You know very small about Orthodoxy. This is not the way forward for achieving unity. Respect other christian brothers.
Bartholomew should be defrocked. He is involved with the greatest heresy, ecumenism. How could he possibly say the Second Vatican Council played a significant role. It ruined the Latin church. He should be more involved with the other Orthodox bishops, instead of rubbing elbows with popes.
Disgusting
wake up and do some research people... google ten-reasons-why-ecumenical-patriarchate-is-not-orthodox by Vladimir Moss
Bartholomew is just too much! The 2nd Vatican Council's decisions ruined the latin church. Bartholomew must be entirely ignorant. The 2nd vatican council ruled that there exists no salvation outside of the catholic faith and that the pope enjoys full supreme, immediate and universal authority. What kind of unity is the result of these decisions?
Bartholomew should really get his act together and start dealing with the other Orthodox instead of the Vatican.
So much for charity. Just anger on the part of the Orthodox
The brothers of Jesus argue with Him........ Jesus was going to a religious event. His brothers said to Him, show yourself so that all the people can see the miracles you do, they scoffed! ! But Jesus said to them, You go to the religious event. I will go secretly. Even Jesus own brothers had not yet become His followers! ! ! John 7, 1-10
He is a schismatic, he is unofficially doing things, and he is under anathema anyway. He is in no way a representative of the Orthodox church.
You know very small about Orthodoxy.
He is a far cry better than the other petty squabbling orthodox bishops
jesus has established one church,and he said that the "gates of hell won't prevail over her until the end of the centuries " do you think that back in 1054,when pope left the until then,one church,the church that He was inside her,took a piece of her?Which means that Jesus church destroyed in pieces?No, friends.He left and he ( pope) is out of the church,possessing no mysteries and His followers are out of gods grace and His mysteries that can save the people
The virgin Mary was not "Ever Virgin Mary"!! Joseph and Mary had more children after the birth of Jesus,! Their names are written in the Bible! Mark 6:1-4
josephsiler1946 Just learn some basic Hebrew ;)
In ancient Herbew and Aramaic the word for brother and male relatives and the word for sister and female relatives were the same words. And in ancient Jewish law and customs a widowed woman would be taken care of by her oldest living son, so after Jesus died and was resurrected, why did Jesus give Mary, His mother to the blessed disciple St. John who was not a relative
Josephsiler1946 did you get these ideas in your dream in 1946?
Prove it. We have 2000 years of unbroken testimony from the Church. Revealed by Him who cannot deceive or be deceived
On him [Peter] he builds the Church, and to him he gives the command to feed the sheep [John 21:17], and although he assigns a like power to all the apostles, yet he founded a single chair [cathedra], and he established by his own authority a source and an intrinsic reason for that unity. Indeed, the others were also what Peter was [i.e., apostles], but a primacy is given to Peter, whereby it is made clear that there is but one Church and one chair. -Cyprian of Carthage