Man vs Tiny CNC Lathe - Rematch! - Episode 39
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- Опубліковано 27 вер 2024
- Last time, the CNC mini-lathe knocked me down, and MAHO put the boot in. I WANT A REMATCH!!!!!
The ongoing overhaul, maintenance and CNC conversion of the SIEG 7x12 Mini lathe.
Excellent soundtrack as always. I swear you deserve some sort of award for best background music on UA-cam...
Thanks for the positive feedback. I appreciate that.
As expected, CNC is so much faster than manual machining after about the seventh repeat. But where's the fun in that? 😉
Great series. Thanks for sharing.
Good call. If my Boley had change wheels, I could have whipped out that part in a lot less than two weeks :)
@@RotarySMP :-) or cut losses and used a tailstock die holder and hand tapped the m10 and let the electronics do the ball end.
@@alan-sk7ky I was pretty disappointed at how badly my M10 die cut last week. Horrible steel, but the die cut thread was also a mess of torn metal.
The flank thread cutting also can help reduce tool chatter because the tool has pressure on only one side.
True. Seems to work well on this cut. FOr such a weany machine, you need to give it all the help it can get.
A helpful tip that I got taught in my training was that when you machine a thread that when it is to size it will be 0.1mm down from the major diameter. I use this every time I machine a thread and it makes it a lot easier so you can just slip a mic or callipers in so you don't have to remove the tailstock and most of the time move the tool out of the way by reaching around the back. it is a nice little build though its made me to think about looking into the linux cnc conversion possibilities
Go for it. LinuxCNC is awesome.
Pen color changes during the thread cutting explanation in your subscribe notebook were magical 👍👍😜👍👍
Your video editing is phenomenal 👊👊👊👊
It is a special UA-cam feature. Everytime another person subs, the colour changes.
Very nice! This is a big relief to see the machine working like that.
I think the machine always worked like that. It is good to see the machine operator functioning :)
@@RotarySMP CNC machines are stupid, they do exactly as they're told.
@@JamesChurchill3 :) Good call.
Hello,
Great to see you won the rematch... and may I say it was a convincing win.
Take care
Paul,,
Thanks. I could'l just leave it as last week finished.
Love the Man From M.A.H.O. Split screen video!
Thanks.
Great work. Now to enjoy many more wins in the future .
I hope so.
You can see the little mini lathe flexing while cutting the ball end @13:00. Glad you showed it who was boss this week!
OttoH pointed that out in the comments below. I need to look into that. Bearings, not preloaded correctly? Bed flexing?
That is much better than last time. Awesome lathe.
Thanks.
Love your process, your music and your sense of humor. The machining, hey that's pretty good too! ; )
3 out of 4 aint bad. I'll take that. :)
Thanks for the feedback.
@@RotarySMP Oh no, you misunderstood me sir, that was 4\4! 👍🏼
@@Chris-bg8mk :)
At work, I cut hundreds of threads per day with an industial CNC Lathe but don't bother with any special tool lead in angle. The size and mass of the machine vs the cutting load doesn't require this technique. I am new to mini lathes and I have been wondering why mini Lathe enthusiasts often refer to this method but never fully explain the concept. Great explanation of why the thread lead in angle is especially important on mini Lathes.
Thanks for the feedback. Enjoy the series.
When im machining threads, I always leave meat on pre threading so I can re-chamfer the thread, then after that I re run the threading tool on the last couple of passes plus 2 or 3 spring passes. Tends to remove any wispy burrs aswell as acting as a spring pass 😁 great video!
Thanks. The thread got a lot nicer after the second fine correction pass.
Correct UA-cam machining music makes ALL the difference. Congratulations.
Thanks.
Really enjoyed this series. Your aircraft engineering past is really showing through and I am sure you learned a lot along the way which is always a good thing.
It is normal practice to minimise the trailing flank relief for threading tools to maximise tool strength and life. The rapid feed creates it's own trailing flank clearance.
Does Linux CNC automatically calculate thread depth based on pitch? The Seimens controller on the last lathe I used had this nice feature, the only downside was you needed an accurate tip radius appropriate to the pitch for first time success.
I think you could improve the braking performance of the Boly if you replace the single shoe with a band type. Band brakes exhibit a self energising characteristic so it would be like having power assisted brakes :) Easy to make with a simple metal band and bonded cork wear material.
Looking forward to more content from you, definitely above the typical HSM standard.
Thanks for the feeback.
LinuxCNC G76 does not calculate the thread depth, you have to declare it as K. You declare your first path depth of cut with J, and it calculates the number of cuts and deptch based on whether you want constant depths (R 1.0), constant Area regression (R2.0) or something in between.
linuxcnc.org/docs/2.6/html/gcode/gcode.html#sec:G76-Threading-Canned.
Given my unknown radius, it was always going to be trial and error to get a usable thread.
Very enjoyable “real” video.
Glad you enjoyed it.
@@RotarySMP envy your shop area, I use a small CNC lathe for most projects... but no room for an affordable mill :(
@@edwardkendall3905 I feel for you. When I only had the mini-lathe on the inner city balcony it was pretty limiting.
Now this is a revenge! congratulation job well done this time!
Thanks.
Really enjoying this series!
Thanks for watching.
that went much better than last time, what we learned? do it twice.
Adding a computor makes everything more efficient :( ?
Greetings. At the end of your last episode #38 I was going to go down to my shop and introduce my sledgehammer to my mini lathe CNC project. I thought, man if this guy can't get it to work, I'm in trouble. And than after watching your episode #39, I had hope . Put the sledgehammer away and watch some more of your mini CNC lathe videos. Good job figuring it out. Other than having to take lighter cuts, it works great.
What are your thoughts on driving the spindle directly with a 1-1/2 hp, 3 phase motor and Inverter setup? You could use a set of two step pulleys for a coarser speed adjustment. My Tormach Mill uses a similar set up and it has allot of power at very slow speeds. It would get away from using the original mini lathes transmission which I dislike.
Now that you have acquired the Schaublin is that the last we will see the mini CNC Lathe?
Enjoy watching your videos very much. Keep them coming.
Cheers
Willy
Hi Willi,
I had the mini lathe belt driven from a 550W 3Ph motor for years, without the gears. I put the metal gears in this conversion, but in hind sight that was a mistake. Running a belt drive to the spindle is a better solution for this machine. With a 1.5Ho motor and VFD you should be fine. As you say, a two step pulley should give you plenty of torque across the usable RPM range.
The bed of the mini-lathe rather lacks rigidity, so I will probably advertise and sell my Mini-lathe, now I have pretty much all the capabilities of it duplicated in the Schaublin.
Nossa ficou sensacional Esse retrofiting.Um sistema gang nas ferramentas iria ficar perfeito.
Obrigado, há um trocador de ferramentas automático que eu tenho com ele. Eu gostaria de fazer isso acontecer.
@@RotarySMP você usou qual motores nesse projeto.
@@wladimirlopes5841 Servos JMC 750W AC que comprei no Aliexpress.
Eles foram recomendados, pois há um software de ajuste disponível para eles, e eles suportam entrada analógica e Step/Dir, e eu queria Analog.
Something is definitely slipping in that brake mechanism, it looks like the arm on the right that the pedal link rod attaches to is slipping on whatever it is attached to at the back of the machine, presumably a shaft that links it to the brake shoe.
Yep. it now brakes but not strongly. If I adjust the brake pad out more, it slips on first stomping.
That's a real part, it's called a half- center
Yep. can be handy.
Yay first successful part. Good job.
Thanks.
Congratulations on the win. Don't get complacent though, It'll be angry now.
Good point. It is sulking now, but probably scheming as well.
CNC lathe nice job
Thanks.
Ahhh... Those Pilot pens are great to use.
Why do I feel the need to comment on these things?
I agree. Very satisfying to use.
The Turd is POLISHED,,, congrats
Thanks.Went a little overboard on that one.
“Episode 127 - I finally have the live tooling on the revolver working“
Do the little lathe a favor and use grounded inserts.
Nice video and this cut editing.. great.
Hopefully, long before we arrive at Episode 127, we have epsiode xxx I sold the mini lathe and got a Schaublin.
@@RotarySMP that is sad, after all the effort that went into it. I can understand, compared to the Maho the mini lathe was always going to be a disappointment. Hope the Schaublin pleases, sadly here in Aus access to quality European machinery is rather limited and Chinese junk predominates although some of the Taiwanese stuff if not too bad.
@@RobB_VK6ES Although the Boley is pretty heavily worn, you quickly become used to using a decent heavy machine, so returning to the mini lathe is a serious let down.
But I know that. My goals when I started the mini lathe were learning to scrape, and doing a project to start a YT channel, so I consider it a success.
Hopefully he can milk this cow for so long that we get an episode 42... or even higher numbers!
@@vincentguttmann2231 Damn, I did not realise I was so close to the meaning of life the universe and everything. When I started I thought it might be a trilogy in five parts.
the mini lathe revenge
Yep. Thanks for watching.
@@RotarySMP my pleasure :)
After your last spring cut polish the threads with a piece of wood to deburr the thread .
That is an interesting tip I have never heard before. Does the wood pick up on burrs?
@@RotarySMP Yes , it cleans up the burrs on the crest of the threads and polishes the rest , hard woods work best .
@@bigbob1699 Thanks.
@@RotarySMP Glade to help . take care and stay well .
My droogs tell me that horrorshow is a good thing.
You have good droogs :)
Nice job. That thread turned out great. Ba dun tiiiis. 😅
Nice editing aswell. ☝️
Thanks for watching.
As nice as the iPhone is as a angle and level gauge, I would invest in one of those cube angle gauges. They are incredibly useful.
Yeah, especially the magnetic ones, but he lives in Austria, which is in a hard lockdown right now. And besides, if an old iPhone that looks way better and is easier to read on camera does the job, why change anything? It's not like we're building a diorama of Starship SN9 here, are we?
I'm impressed just how handy the phone app is for this. Hard to justify forking out for the angle guage when this is already in the pocket.
@@RotarySMP Wait, is this still your daily driver? Didn't they drop support for that phone?
@@vincentguttmann2231 It is 5SE. The battery is nealy dead, so it is always on charge.
@@RotarySMP That sounds like a clear no to me. I like its design though! And those rectangular sides make for excellent registration against metal parts.
I get what you’re saying about plunge thread cutting. As it happens I talk about it briefly in my recent video. I removed my compound slide from my Myford so I thought I’d have a go at thread cutting without it. It went ok but obviously would have been better if I was cutting on the leading edge of the tool only instead of plunge cutting.
Here’s a link to my video. Hope you like it:
ua-cam.com/video/cxnE2tFrVzk/v-deo.html
That’s come up good. I wonder if it’s possible to have Linux CNC to automate the coolant on and off.
It certainly would. I mean, how do other CNC machines handle this? But I am not sure if that machine has a relay for that. And besides, it's sometimes better to babysit it anyways.
@@vincentguttmann2231 haha yeah true. Anymore human jobs taken away and we are in trouble.
@@obe726 The LinuxCNC profile and GUI which the PNCConf wizard set up includes both flood and mist coolant control. I would just need to install the physical systems and connect them to one of the Mesa cards output pins. You see this with the MAHO in this video. The standard flood cooling is controlled with M8 on, M9 off.
16:35 What forum you mentions? Would like to read some stuff
My bad, I meant " in the comment section", but I have also been chronicling this build in the LinuCNC Forum here...
forum.linuxcnc.org/26-turning/38280-pimping-the-mini-lathe?
I was very... relieved... to see you use a proper grinder on that center. I am so sorry.
Punny you should say that.
@@RotarySMP Also, you should try constant surface speed turning when turning rounded ends. This was really a nice example that showed the transition into and out of the best surface speed
@@vincentguttmann2231 I tried it once last week, and it was a disaster. Didn't have time to trouble shoot why the lathe tried to spool up to warp speed three yet.
@@RotarySMP Well, I haven't seen that in the video, and my first guess would be an (almost) infinitely high speed, since the diameter of the cut is approaching zero. Does that post-processor have the ability to set an RPM limit?
@@vincentguttmann2231 It does, and it was set to 3000 rpm, but something got lost in translation. I need to find so time to play around with it.
One suggestion for the fiddly chuck change, is there room to change it to the style with a captive keyhole ring behind the spindle flange? DIN55027 is the spec, I think.
Or, just make a whole new spindle with a D1-2 nose. And a whole load of D1-2 cams, studs and backplates as D1-2 is super-rare. (Used on only two lathes that I know of, www.lathes.co.uk/pratt&whitney/ and www.lathes.co.uk/holbrook-C8/) D1-2 puts the stud PCD inside the locating taper.
Hi Andy. Yeah....nah! that is not going to happen. I once drew up making a D1-3 adapter for the Boley, but it interfered with the threads. No way will I polish this turd to that degree. The Schaublin 125CNC I picture one day buying is a D1-3.
Wonder what lead them to use D1-2 on the Holbrook? Steel shortage :)
@@RotarySMP D1-2 wasn't really a serious suggestion, it would be a lot of work. But DIN55027 is just a matter of making a keyhole ring and enlarging the holes in the spindle flange.
D1-2 for both those lathes seems smaller than necessary, D1-3 would not have been that out-of-proportion. I doubt we will ever know.
Though I think D1-3 would be oversize for the mini lathe.
@@andypughtube That would entail pulling the spindle, which is about 600 steps back along the mechano set assemble instructions. It is not actually that bad to change chucks, unless you are trying to film.
@@RotarySMP Maybe get the right Wera Joker Switch spanner for the job for Christmas? (They have a nut-holder on the open end)
@@andypughtube I thought that is what superglue on the finger is for.
what are you using for bluing?
Birchwood casey gun blue.
GJ
Thanks.
whether this cnc can be used for c axis mode, i'm also making a machine like you but i need the c axis function
LinuxCNC can do a C axis lathe. I used a pretty primitive old VFD. You need a servo as spindle motor to do the C axis.
@@RotarySMP how to set spindle with c axis like mach3
@@cnccams1428 I have no idea how Mach3 works. Never used it.
I suggest you make a thread on the LinuxCNC forum. Describe your set up and what you are trying to achieve. There will be someone who knows how to do it.
You might also wish to try incremental feed vs flank infeed. Not sure if it would help or not. www.mitsubishicarbide.com/en/technical_information/tec_turning_tools/tec_threading/tec_threading_guide/tec_threading_methods
Thanks. That is an intesting resource. Unfortunately LinuxCNC does not offer a canned cycle for that, and my CAM doesn't either.
Despite what a load of old fogies might say going straight in is perfectly fine especially on a fine thread like M10. I have conducted experiments using the same single size insert on the same material and even under a microscope you cant tell the difference. Swarf cross interference is no issue except perhaps for lathes made from balsa wood or maybe on really coarse threads.😉
Just a point about threading, the nose radius must be exact if you are only going by depth of thread to get a good fitting thread. Too sharp a radius gives a false reading.
Other than the above i really like your, er, polishing.😆
Thanks for your feedback. I am pretty sure this bed can be considered Balsa! I did some deflectiong tests on it back in about episode 7, and it is a wet noodle.
Do you see a downside in feeding down a flank? It seems like even if it has not benefit, it would have no negative side effects. In LinuxCNC, all you need to do is add Q29.5 into the G76 line.
@@RotarySMP true enough except proper machinists (?) like to keep their top slides set exactly parallel to lathe axis, or sometimes at a small set angle for 10 to 1 ratio cuts. So why turn the top slide from its precision position when not needed? I must add the above is for manual machines rather CNC of which i know zilch, except when it stands for Chris' Numbskull Control of which i know plenty.😉
@@chrisstephens6673 You know the Boley I have, one of the things that bugs me about it is the top slide geometry is such, that keeping it parallel to the bed for precise length of cuts, it ilmost always interferes with the tailstock (if needed for support). And then it can't cut angle of more than about 50°, as the top slide handle hits the cross slide, and cant rotate. For such an awesome lathe manufacturer, it is pretty annoying.
@@RotarySMP there is never going to be one machine to please all users, some folks even remove their top slide altogether like RobRenz or Stefan Gotteswinter for the extra rigidity. In early days some lathes didn't even have a top slide from the factory.
I remember demonstrating threadiing on a Myford at a show and a number of old time machinists said it cant be going straight in, then a younger oldie piped up saying he was also taught that "fact" but when he got his first job and had to cut a thread his foreman said something like "why are you wasting your time moving the top slide, just go straight in" and apparently he never bothered doing it ever agsin. I sort of miss having fun with live audiences, andbopening minds to something different.
@@chrisstephens6673 I have seen STGW and RobRenz's top slide removal. They seem to always cut small tapers with form tools. I am too lazy, and just use the top slide.
You should try G-Wizard Calculator from CNCcookbook. Takes care of all of your feed & speed & feed problems. I haven't used my copy yet because the Triton isn't running yet but the software looks very promising for relieving me of the unknowns when I do get running. As I understand it, it also includes a tool library.
My CAM already does feeds and spped pretty well, when I remember to coordinate its tool library with the ones I actually have :/
easy fix, get rid of that bloody computer shit, and put the handwheels back on!!!, then and ONLY then, will the machine do exactly what you tell it to do.
:)
I will sell the mini lathe and the Boley once I have the Schaublin up and running, but really do like having a manual lathe for those quick, no precision required jobs like turning up a bushing to be welded. I'll do jog wheels on both axis of the Schaublin to simulate the manual experience, but may end up getting another manual lathe long term.
If your wall art and toolbox stickers didn't mark you as an aircraft (engine?) guy, your analysis of your last video surely did.
Thanks for watching closely :)
Always wanted a quality mini lathe. Seems that everything now is a variety of the same Asian import with low quality standards. This one has been amazing watching you retrofit into a modern lathe.
Yeah.It really is nice. Schaublin still makes this as the 125-CCN. The cabinets have gotten bigger, but the mechanics are still very similar.
Check eBay. You can find those craftsman/atlas lathes all the time. I trust the quality of those by many orders of magnitude over those minilathe machines...
@@sklzlm Yep. True words.
I suspect this universal grinder is quite expensive i considered getting one on ali but not sure about the quality maybe better to build from raw stock?
? which grinder?
The clarkson i think is how you named it.
@@platin2148 Oh right. Te Clarkson is a tool and cutter grinder. I bought it from a friend of mine. Pretty fun tool.
That was interesting. A viewer of mine commented that his favourite channels were yours and mine, and I can see why. Our channels are quite different, apart from a small cnc lathe being involved. Mine is an old factory built cnc with proprietary software and I mainly make production parts. I only use carbide tooling and full form threading inserts, which is the only way to go for parts that are for customers, as threads can be perfect quite easily. So as you can see, quite different. I still have some way to go, to get up there with your editing skills though. Must check out more of your videos.
I really like your channel as well. You show what can be done with a high quality, working CNC lathe, and I show why a Seig 7x12 and a shit load of work is not the way to get there :)
Thanks for the feedback.
Nice Job, for centre finding of the part on the mill, I kept screwing up the maths as well so I added a half macro to gmoccapy. That runs g10 l2 p0 X[#5221 + [#/2]] (adds half the current x value to the G54 offset) its only works in G54 but it's helped me make less mistakes forgetting the size of the part/edge finder.
That is a good idea. I haven't got my head around what G10 is supposed to be good for at all.
Wow that four-camera view at 09:47 to 10:20 looks like the future of UA-cam - broadcast quality and conveying exponentially more information than a single camera. Your video skills are enviable. I worried a little about the WD-40 vaping session on the lathe but hopefully you were taking precautions. I made a note-to-self to check for a food-grade equivalent thread cutting oil for instances where the oil will reach it's smoke point and become a vapor.
I have a camera with a damaged control wheel which gets to play crash cam, and get fastened to the bed, on on the cross slide etc. Took me a while to work out how to do the editing but I kind of like that multi window style.
I binged watched the series, just awesome! Love the multi camera angle edits you recently added too! Gutted I now have to wait for the next episode... I noticed a couple of oddities with the playlist: Out of sequence episodes: a) Episode 7 comes after Episode 22 b)Episode 36 comes after Episode 37 - Probably doesn't belong in this playlist Maho'ing the €10000 camera stand - Part 2
Thanks for the feedback. The playlist has been badly corrupted before, so I am glad it is still semi correct.
I cant change the order of the playlist. I had to reattach E7, so it is out of order. I added the Camera Stand part 2 as is has a decent portion of Mini-lathe making parts.
Never noticed it before but man there is some wicked flicker in the background parts of your shots. Do you use fluorescent lighting ?
I have flourescent lighting in the rooms with the MAHO and Boley, and an LED panel in the room with the Mini lathe. As the flourescents die, I replace them with LED.
Nice! Thanks for the explanations and kudos for comming out on top this time!
Thanks.
to get a better surface finish you have to take a deeper cut witch your carbide tools, they have something like a minimum cutting parameter
Yes, but because it was a dead center, I had to set a lower than desirable RPM, to prevent from friction heating it's tip. That lead to the low RPM and low DoC. Everything is a compromise on this little lathe. Might have been better with a HSS cutter.
@@RotarySMP if you want you can try a dead center with a carbide tip, and put a drop of oil on it, also hss tool migh be better too that is true
@@DolezalPetr I put lithium grease on it. I dont have one with a carbide tip, but if I did, you can sure of two things...
1/ I would drop it
2/ It would land on the tip.
@@RotarySMP yeah I can imagine that, I do some really stupid shit like this too
very good video..thanks for your time
THanks a lot for watching and your kind feedback.
@13:00 Why is chuck/part lifting? Do the whole frame bend or loose bearings?
Thanks for pointing that out. I hadn't noticed that. I'll check out whether I got the bearing preload wrong, or whather it is flex. Or both.
@@RotarySMP All three united, bending frame, loose spindle bearings and the part it self. :D
@@waldemarii Don't forget the POS tailstock, made of rubber.
Which was not even used on that cut, but may have still introduced flex, remotely. :)
@@RotarySMP That tail stock could distort even space time, maybe it could be used for ftl drive?
Nice work! I have a little emco pc50 cnc lathe at work, It has a small 75mm 3 jaw chuck that works great. Someone did a good job making it because it has basically no slop and no runout, making it ideal for basically all the parts it can handle.
There is a 4th way to cut a thread, I haven't seen anyone do it( i haven't really looked though, it just occurred to me) but you could cut a thread by breaking up the passes even further, and get a truly uniform cutting force for each pass. You take a normal first pass, then offset the same pass in the z axis the width of the first pass, and do this several times until you get to the width of the final thread. The shape of the area for these passes would be triangular. Then you go back to the original z axis offset, and move in at the 29.5 degree angle to do a second set of passes. these passes would be diamond shaped, and you keep repeating this until you work your way to the bottom. This would allow you to cut massive threads with manageable tool force. If you are having trouble visualizing this, the shape of the passes would be a tessellation of diamonds filling the root of the thread. the passes don't even need to be diamond shaped, they just need to advance along a path that is parallel to the wall of the thread.
I can picture it. That would truly allow and cut depth without getting in the problem of a regressive pass becoming so fine an infeed that it just rubs instead of cutting. Would be interesting to program.
@@RotarySMP I remember being told about another method. It starts in the middle, then steps down to size with that ~30 deg angle but on alternating sides. I, not knowing much about CNC turning, assumed every controller does that.
@@besenyeim I guess there are plenty of different controller specific flavours of this. The RS-274 standard for G code only covers the G33 single threading pass. All multipass canned cycles are control specfic.
Thanks for the most enjoyable and interesting 39 episodes on UA-cam! It's been a super treat for one old man bored out of his skull in this pandemic mess!
Glad you enjoyed them. My new machine should arrive Monday or Tuesday, and then we are off to the races with the next year of episodes :)
@@RotarySMP Cool! Can't wait! Just in time too. Big winter storm due here Monday night so all outside activities are on hold. By the way, nothing bores me any more than scraping videos but you made scraping interesting and I thoroughly enjoyed every one of them.
@@Watchyn_Yarwood I appreciate the feedback thanks. Be careful with that storm coming.
can you add a meter or directly display it on the vfd display to measure the current/load of the motor?
This VFD is pretty old. It doesn't outout load.On this machine other aspects of it are more limiting anyway.
@@RotarySMP I also have an old vfd ready for my cnc conversion, but it also doesnt display motor load, I was thinking about how to display the motor load in a different way, but I cant come up with anything
@@DolezalPetr An ampere clamp on the cable to the motor?
@@RotarySMP can you do that when the vfd outputs different frequencies? I am afraid it can't be done that easily
@@DolezalPetr I am pretty igonorant about these things.