Is English God’s Chosen Language?
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- Опубліковано 29 сер 2023
- Reflections on a Profound Experience I just had at the Museum of the Bible last weekend.
Plus: see a Ge'ez Bible for yourself! Cool!
🎁 Help me end Bible translation tribalism, one plow boy at a time:
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👏 Many thanks to Jonathan Burris of @pastorburris for editing this video as a volunteer support to my little ministry!
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James Duly, Robert Gifford, Lanny M Faulkner, Lucas Key, Dave Thawley, William McAuliff, Razgriz, James Goering, Eric Couture, Martyn Chamberlin, Edward Woods, Thomas Balzamo, Brent M Zenthoefer, Tyler Rolfe, Ruth Lammert, Gregory Nelson Chase, Ron Arduser, Caleb Farris, Dale Buchanan, Jess English, Aaron Spence, Orlando Vergel Jr., John Day, Joshua Bennett, K.Q.E.D., Brent Karding, Kofi Adu-Boahen, Steve McDowell, Kimberly Miller, A.A., James Allman, Steven McDougal, Henry Jordan, Nathan Howard, Rich Weatherly, Joshua Witt, Wade Huber, M.L., Brittany Fisher, Tim Gresham, Lucas Shannon, Easy_Peasy , Caleb Richardson, Jeremy Steinhart, Steve Groom, jac, Todd Bryant, Corey Henley, Jason Sykes, Larry Castle, Luke Burgess, Joel, Joshua Bolch, Kevin Moses, Tyler Harrison, Bryon Self, Angela Ruckman, Nathan N, Gen_Lee_Accepted , Bryan Wilson, David Peterson, Eric Mossman, Jeremiah Mays, Caleb Dugan, Donna Ward, DavidJamie Saxon, Omar Schrock, Philip Morgan, Brad Dixon, James D Leeper, M.A., Nate Patterson, Dennis Kendall, Michelle Lewis, Lewis Kiger, Dustin Burlet, Michael Butera, Reid Ferguson, Josiah R. Dennis, Miguel Lopez, CRB, D.R., Dean C Brown, Kalah Gonzalez, MICHAEL L DUNAVANT, Jonathon Clemens, Travis Manhart, Jess Mainous, Brownfell, Leah Uerkwitz, Joshua Barzon, Benjamin Randolph, Andrew Engelhart, Joe Siler, Mark Sarhan, Melissa F, Rachel Schoenberger.
Well spoken brother. What especially moved me as I listened is that there are folks who will live their one precious life on this planet without access to God's word in their own language.
Right. =(
Hi Mark. I am a Bible translation consultant with SIL in central Africa. I found one of your videos ("usage determines meaning") a few days ago and have been geeking out on quite a few of them since. I have very many complimentary things to say about your videos. One thing I want to pull out of this one is the idea that monolinguals are unaware (through no fault of their own) of the difficulties of translation. This is very true. As I think about translation, I have grown more and more disgruntled about the idea of literal translation. There really is no such thing. Even the most so-called literal English translations (correctly and necessarily) add thousands of words that are not in the Greek/Hebrew text, omit (correctly and necessarily) thousands of words that are in the Greek/Hebrew text, (correctly and necessarily) add thousands of pieces of grammatical and lexical information that are not in the Greek/Hebrew text, and (correctly and necessarily) omit thousands of pieces of grammatical and lexical information that are in the Greek/Hebrew text. How is any of that *literal*? I wish we could develop a new vocabulary to talk about the difference between (say) the NASB and the NLT, because they are of course different.
Anyway, rant over for now. Love your stuff.
Thank you! Yes, David Brunn is the one who best helped me see this, with his excellent IVP book from 10+ years ago, One Bible, Many Versions.
If you haven't seen my INCREDI-NASB video, that's my effort to say what you're saying in as entertaining and memorable a way as possible: ua-cam.com/video/reBR7di1Nr8/v-deo.html.
A bigger possible issue is translation of the wrong stuff. Just saying scholars should only be allowed to translate scriptures if they are true humble believers in The Father and our Master Yeshuah.
The technical term is actually "formal equivalence". The term "literal" is supposed to apply to the meaning of the text (as opposed to figurative or allegorical). But "literal" is used to mean "formal" in some cases, eg. the YLT.
I like literal translations. I don't think the impossibility of having a "perfect" translation barring the trivial case of a relex means that trying to aim at that insomuch as is possible is bad. For example, take the last line of 「君の名は」 ("Kimi no Na ha" aka "Your Name"): 「君の｡｡｡名前は？」. An informal equivalent translation might be "What is... your name?". You could place the ellipsis differently, but what is consistent is that it reorders lexemes in one of the most dramatic moments of the movie. A more formally equivalent translation might be "Your... name?". This also loses some nuance of the use of 「君」(kimi) for the 2p pronoun, but if you want that I'm not sure you can do better than transliterating "kimi" and adding a TN. But it mostly preserves the order of lexemes and doesn't strand a bunch of grammar words ("What is") in one half of a dramatically split line. Does the imperfection of the formally equivalent approach invalidate it's use? I think it's a better translation. Just because it's not perfect doesn't mean it's not better than something which just gives up and doesn't even try to be as faithful as reasonably possible to the original text. Of course we'll get instances of "All according to keikaku (TN: keikaku means plan)", but the possibility of going too far in a direction doesn't mean it's not a worthy aim. Better to try and fail, than never to try at all.
That's not to say I never read dynamic equivalence versions, but even then my favorite is the NET, which I think has a great philosophy of balancing a dynamic equivalence approach with notes which help clarify how much stock you should put in the decisions which had to be made.
Yes, I love the NET and its notes. It's the most transparent version that I know for letting the reader know why the translators did what they did. @@StrategicGamesEtc
Brother Mark, you're an absolute treasure and I love this video so much. So glad I found your channel my friend.
Welcome aboard!
Yes, my language (whatever it is) is the most important language...for certain people in certain circumstances. ;)
Edit: Sorry, just to explain my tongue-in-cheek reply, the original title of this video was: "Is Your Language the Most Important Language?" I meant no harm, only being silly. :)
Love this!
Wonderful video, Mark. Just finished watching the premiere. In 2001 I first learned about the need of Bible translation or if I knew of it before it was in 2001 when it first registered with me. I was in high school and on the mission committee at my church. 9/11 had just occurred and we were preparing for our 2002 conference. One of the missionaries we brought was a lady named Grace Fabian. She and her husband went to Papua New Guinea to translate the New Testament with SIL. Her husband was martyred translating 1 Corinthians 13. Her story and testimony of God’s grace in the translation is beyond words. Thankfully she finally wrote her autobiography “Outrageous Grace” about God’s grace. When I went to Papua New Guinea in 2005 I saw first hand the importance of translating into the heart language of people. Seeing people hear the Word of God in the language they talk in, think in, dream in, have internal monologues with is beyond anything I can truly put into words. Translation is such a key component of the Bible. The Babylonian exiles returning to Jerusalem in Ezra/Nehemiah had to have the Hebrew translated to Aramaic (Nehemiah 8:7-8). When Koine Greek was on the rise they translated the Torah to Greek (the Septuagint - LXX). When Latin was on the rise, Saint Jerome translated it to Latin. God’s Word needs to be translated and shared. That the earth will be filled with the knowledge of the glory of the Lord, as the waters cover the sea!
Right! Love this! Neh 8 is a tough passage, but I read it the same way you do. I think it involved translation, not just interpretation/teaching.
Thank you again, like I said in a previous video's comment, this concept has really changed my perspective on the importance of the TR/CT debate. Side note, I live about an hour's drive away from the museum but only heard about it recently. I plan to take the family soon and support the museum through a yearly membership.
Yes! You won't regret this!
Thank you so much for putting this out there! I work with WorldView Ministries, a sister organization to BI, and this is constantly on our hearts.
I have multiple respected friends in BI!
Then we have mutual friends. 🙂 I actually briefly appear in a video that BI put out, where I am at Troy Manning's house with others during a BI conference... 😀We also have similar interests and favorite sources: I have long been a John McWhorter fan, so I recognized the title of your recent video. To say the least, I get a huge kick and blessing out of your videos!@@markwardonwords
Our family toured the Museum of the Bible two weeks ago and I must say that it exceeded our expectations! Thank God for such a rich and preserved heritage! 🤗
Wonderful!
I am thankful for Bible being translated into many languages! The Good News must be presented to all nations!
Right!
Looking forward to it
✔
There are many more need to be done in their sign language versions. ASLV (America Sign Language Version) just finished in 2022!!!! Deaf Missions are working on different countries to translate their sign language into sign language version. It is all in the video version, not a text version. A lot of works!!! Praying for this important mission for deaf people on this earth.
Love your stuff and this title has me lol! Keep up the good work as you feel led my friend. As soon as you do not feel led, find what your next leading is. You are a treasure in the Lord my friend; please do not step outside of the leading of our Lord!
Love you!
Thank you! Pray for me!
Excellent! Well said, brother! Thank you.
Thanks for listening!
Cool, I'm psyched to see some museum of the Bible type stuff ❤
Some more is coming!
Very touching video, Mark. I hope you will talk more about the work of world translations. I know very little about translation ministries, but would like to support this work. Thanks for the reminder of how important it is.
I will try!
Amen! 🙏🏻 As we have read in our own Bibles, God wants all saved & to come into the knowledge of the truth. Can’t wait to see your videos! Thank you for all you give.
Absolutely!!
Your work is amazing man!
I appreciate that!
Few organisations have worked as hard or as long to translate the Bible into as many languages as possible as the TBS-an organisation that is effectively KJVO.
Agreed. And overall, I'm glad for their work-or what I know of it.
I'm not a museum guy myself, but they did an awesome job with the Museum of the Bible. Fascinating history...
Yes they did!
So so well said. I thoroughly appreciated the humility (and, yes, the righteous indignation) with which you handled such a severrly contentious matter. Loved the nitty gritty examples and detail! Well done Mark. Praise God for you my friend! (PS: we also support specific Bible Translators alongside you...it's always a both and not an either or)
Thank you! Have you been to the MotB, Dustin?
@@markwardonwords I have not . . . but you have effectively put it on my list :-)
Was this a Patreon-sponsored event?
@@dustinburlet7249 Yes and no. The MotB paid for my travel and my hotel, but incidentals (parking, most meals, coffee) I covered-and therefore Patreon supporters covered!
Really appreciated this, God bless your work.
Glad it was helpful!
Visiting the museum last year was such a blessing
Amen!
Great video. I’m going to the MOTB next month and I’m so very excited!
Have fun!
Great video Mark 👍🏻
Thanks 👍
Saw you on Dr Sean MacDowell's channel. ❤ loved it. You ha e a new subscriber 🎉
Awesome! Thank you!
Me, too.
Thank you for highlighting this, Mark.
Honored that you watch, Mike!
Your humility when it comes to this topic of language is refreshing. You give a great perspective on how little most Americans have absolutely no clue as to which other parts of the world and their people work. The best thing we as Christians can do when reading a certain translation or even teaching it to someone else is to ask God to give us discernment!! 🙏🏾
Yes!
Great video. Yes, the whole KJV-Only debate is a 1st World Problem.
Right. =(
Some languages don't even have a written form, an audio only translation is an interesting idea.
...
Unrelated:
Matthew 17:20 long troubled me until I discovered the footnote in the CSB that enlightened me that what's translated as "faith the size" of a mustard seed
is actually literally literally "faith like" a mustard seed.
Which connects back to the earlier parable about the kingdom of heaven and suddenly it all made sense - that our faith will someday become great even though now it is small.
I encountered someone else with this same trouble. As it's translated, I think it's confusing. It seems like even if you have tiny faith that you should be able to move mountains, the long-term outlook is lost.
Perhaps something worth discussing in a video.
A worthy idea. Thank you!
I literally fell to my knees sobbing seeing the wall of empty spaces where there are languages that doesn’t have a Bible translation. I prayed worshiping God and His Almighty Power Seeking His Power to right this injustice. I am so wrought with a burden for those that haven’t read the Gospel of Christ. I have been struggling with English translations and their place in my Relationship with God, feeling so selfish and small, knowing that there are those without. I Pray that this Wrong can be Righted before it’s too late. I imagine I will pray this every day from now on.
A moving place!
My understanding is that the reason Paul quoted the Septuagint in his writings was because he was in a predominantly Greek-speaking world. So that makes sense to me. One problem that exists in translating from one language to another, is that sometimes the subtle nuances may be missed. But thankfully, that is rather rare, but also sometimes important.
Yes, nuances are missed. This cannot be helped, or not very much-and God gave us this situation! Checking multiple translations can help, of course, as can learning Hebrew and Greek.
In order for me to do what precisely? In what circumstances? For example: I'm British, so it probably won't be any good to use English when asking for directions from an older person in rural Germany - unless I'm lucky and he/she speaks my language. However, if I address him/her in German, I'll probably get a smile in return and a far more detailed set of directions to get me to my destination. So in that particular instance the other person's language is definitely more important than mine.
This video makes a great point. I think its important to have deep and long and thought out debates about Bible translations, and I there is value in discussing issues like CT vs TR or KJV vs NASB etc. All of that is important as it will ultimately shape the way christians in the english speaking world consume scripture.
All that being said, the problem of whole languages and large groups of people not having even an accessible translation of the Bible at all is a problem on completely different level.
Right! So glad we agree here!
lol let’s never forget when Sam Gipp said, on a publicly aired interview, that you have to learn English to read Gods word!
I do attend a KJVO church. The church has been a huge blessing in my life, but I have drifted away from this way of thinking. It will probably be inevitable one day for my family to find another church when we decide to officially leave Fundamentalism.
I appreciate your videos as always!
I'm so glad the church has been beneficial for you! My KJVO church in high school was for me. Maybe they will move on before you feel you have to.
Excellent and well-spoken! Eons ago I took an introductory master's level course in linguistics. We were taught to value all languages, and never to demean other languages, nor to exalt our own. Throughout my working days, my supervisors would always give me the phone calls from persons with heavy foreign accents, because I had befriended so many persons of non-American backgrounds, and had no problems with heavily accented English.
I am fluent only in English, so I wonder if the monolinguistic American phenomenon might perhaps be related to xenophobia. Thanks & blessings from Silver Spring. MD. 😊🙏🏻📖
This video makes me want to spend a day at the MOTB!
Yes, do it! You'll love it!
So be it!😄
even so no other people did more to spread the good news internationally than the english speaking believers of england and america and so in that regard english still rules there is also an inherent something else in the english that is rarely captured in other languages for example all other translations fail to capture the majesty and the finality of THIS TOO SHALL PASS by the way i encourage all viewers to support the wycliff bible translators who often are risking their lives to bring the bible into the native or heart language i loved your zeal and insights
Great point well made.
I appreciate this, Hefin.
Many years ago I talked with a missionary about her work on translating the Bible for a tribe that did not have a written language-everything was oral. She worked with the people to invent a written language for them so that she could translate the Bible into their language. It was a very long and drawn out process. When I was studying computer science in the early 2000’s, I had an idea to use natural language processing to make the process faster and easier. My life has taken me on a much different path so, I’m no longer in that world. But, I still wonder if it could work. Perhaps, someone involved in Bible translation can contact someone in the natural language processing field to see if it could help.
This is being done! I'm not deeply familiar, but Andrew Case talks about it a bit on his Working for the Word podcast.
i believe that God use english language now to spread his word in all countries,kjv is tge pure word of God🔥✝️
Why that one?
I love that the bible is being translated into different languages.
Right!
@@markwardonwords it’s exciting that it’s being translated into different languages
Have You had the opportunity to review the Recovery version from Living Streams Ministry?
I have not. =|
You might consider Murray Grindlay's review of the translation: www.bible-researcher.com/recovery-version.html
In brief, he saw only minor problems with the translation itself, but he had issues with the theology presented in the footnotes.
Here's some food for thought I would like to share with all. Messiah asked if the Gospel is going to be found on the Earth? Why would he ask such a question if the correct gospel is being currently taught?
Have you heard of the “Pure Word” New Testament? I use it as a devotional/study tool. I recently read some pretty critical reviews about it and wondered if you’ve heard about it and had any thoughts about it.
I'm afraid I can't recommend it. =( I don't know how much it will hurt, but I have no confidence that it will help! I talk about it in this video: ua-cam.com/video/yOcpGttoqq8/v-deo.html
@@markwardonwords Thanks so much, the truth is so much more palatable and helpful straight up, than trying to skirt it and maybe leaving some doubt.
Please pray that I am able to have a Christian attitude when talking to King James only people I tend to get very angry and upset and then I lose track of what I am trying to say I don't outwardly get upset or angry, I just get so mad because I am passionate about the topic
Have patience with them. What do you have that you have not received? But reject a divisive man after two or more rebukes if he's in your church. That's our calling. I feel your pain!
Great video as always! The argument you are making is the very argument that helped me move away from KJVO. I sometimes joke that I was KJVO until I became a missionary. Most language groups don’t have a KJV equivalent. If you follow the end reasoning of KJVO that you have to read the KJV in order to be saved, that leaves an overwhelming majority of the world out in the cold.
Well said!
Are you needing help to promote these upcoming videos? It would be great to see all your followers posting on all their social media pages.
YES! A great idea! I will make that appeal when the time comes. Currently it’s scheduled for late September.
I like Aramaic
Kefa
M16
:18
Two points:
First, I would recommend Dr. Benjamin Kantor's work on the pronunciation of Koine Greek that recently got published. He documents evidence of Hebrew as a living language until the Bar Kokhba revolt. If his case is correct, there is a very compelling case of trilingual speakers of Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek. Granted, this is Palestinian Aramaic, which is not the Aramaic in the OT.
Second, yes, my language is the most important language, just like my kids are the most important kids. I know good and well that many children have necessities that aren't met. I only give aide after I have secured resources for my kids. Every person, and every individual, _should_ think their language and culture is the most important and be zealous for it, just like every person should consider their kids the most important. We just shouldn't expect others to think so. We also should offer help and aid to people who are strangers.
I fear that, if anybody really believed the principles of "My language isn't special" and applied it to their family, the result would be abuse and neglect. The good thing is, we don't have to pick between these two statements on the exact same theological grounds that Latin and the Clementine Vulgate, Koine Greek and the Greek Bible, Ge'ez (you mentioned) and the Ethiopian Bible can all be inspired and infallible, with holy languages for their people, and not all be the same. If someone says that the KJV is the only infallible Bible and language, they have gone to an extreme.
The opposite is also true. Take Trent, for instance, (I am not Roman Catholic). It declares the Vulgate wholly reliable and without error. The council knew full well that the Latin differed in itself, and they knew that other, very different textlines existed in their communion (The LXX and Byzantine text being very different and used in communion with them). They never condemned these alternative versions. If Trent's claims for the Vulgate make you uneasy despite the fact they do not reject other textlines, then you've gone too far in the opposite direction.
There is a balance to be walked in this question. God, in his providence, has made certain the originals are unobtainable and cannot be reconstructed. A Bible is inspired for each culture through its interaction and copying practice. As such, each culture should guard the unique, inspired text as the most important, because it is what they have been charged with.
I was just watching a Kantor video last night. Neat guy. Thank you for that tip. To be a little more specific myself: I believe Hebrew underwent changes over time, and I think the details are lost to history. That's why I feel it to be rather uncertain whether there were any folks who spoke biblical Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek as native speakers. But I admit there's more I need to learn! The upshot is the same: there are few such people, and none today. Almost all Christians in the history of the world, with the possible exception of a tiny few in the first century, have had to encounter the Bible in translation.
I agree with your second point, too.
Trent's claims makes me uneasy. And I just can't say "a Bible is inspired for each culture." I'd like to reserve the word "inspired" for God's initial acts of inspiration, as described in the one passage that uses that metaphor.
@@markwardonwords Yes, you're right about the need for translation. It's not an accident that the NT relied on the LXX, and the Apostles were perfectly capable of using other versions (and did on several occasions).
I don't think we have a biblical basis to limit inspiration to the original texts. If we look at our two primary passages on inspiration, neither of them have in mind the original authors in any exclusive sense. In 2 Timothy, Paul is explicitly calling the Septuagint, not the original, inspired, and the inspiration lies in it what it does for contemperaries: "profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for instruction in righteousness, that each person who belongs to God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work."
The same holds true for 2 Peter 1.21. Our translations have to choose between "of any private interpretation" and "from any private interpretation." The Greek is deliberately ambiguous, γραφῆς ἰδίας ἐπιλύσεως. It can go either way, and Peter takes both concerns on both sides. In the immediately preceding verses, he is emphasizing we didn't follow cleverly designed fables. In the immediately following, he warns of false prophets, and how they distort Scripture. This latter is so important he closes with it. This verse bridges the gap between both concerns and fits nicely with both. Consequently, it can be read both ways and, likely, was intended that way.
Without 2 Peter, I don't think there is a single passage that actually limits inspiration to the original authors, and I can think of several where the biblical authors treat information unique to a translation or a targum as inspired (e.g. Jesus' argument in John 10 about "if he called them gods to whom the word of God came" makes no sense in either the MT or LXX since both have in mind angelic beings. It needs a tradition similar to that preserved in T.Jonathan to work. He treats this as Scripture, though it is not the original reading by any stretch).
Even the biblical authorship process presupposes this sort of development. The Pentateuch comes to us in stages. At which stage was it inspired, and were the alterations after that corruptions? Which Jeremiah is inspired? The MT Jeremiah we use, or the LXX Jeremiah of the NT? They are not the same book with the latter being around 25% shorter and in a different order.
We can't call every translation inspired. What Trent proposes is the text that is used for centuries or millennia is inspired. This text changes, and it has changes that set in over time. God is at work among the people, and the text that forms and stabilizes is uniquely adapted and inspired for that people.
If we extend inspiration to the preservation process and not just to the originals, then we can have our cake and eat it too when it comes to biblical texts. If we do not, then how are the KJV onlyists wrong except in what text they prefer? If inspiration is limited to the original authors, then differences in the text are always uninspired departures from the originals. They would be right.
I dont know but I think there is a good argument to be made that using Hebrew and Greek lexicon is tremendously important in verifying a translation in any given language is reasonably accurate, and every word is important.
This sounds good, but it is impracticable. The use of such lexicons by someone who hasn't studied the languages simply will not help. And I've literally never seen anyone do this. The fact remains that we must trust someone else to translate the Bible for us.
There's always a healthy area to question translators and translation and seek to verify its accuracy. Original language is not readily available to everyone but a mind to seek out the truth is free. Personally, I don't feel a need to verify every word in Hebrew or Greek but I'm not convinced we can have both the septuagint and masoretic Proverbs for example and call them remotely the same. There are so many differences and variations, one has to question which one got tampered with.
@@trappedcat3615 You've raised several issues. I tend to agree with this comment.
This is exactly 💯 what i prayed about. I was asking God why all the chinese bible versions spell out Yehehua(the Tetragrammaton) very clearly. But the father's name is obscured in hebrew in order to exalt the name of Jesus Christ 🎉 so the modern jews would have no choice but to look towards Jesus. Same with capitalised LORD in KJV. Where as the newer languages, the father is giving His name because those underground churches might not have the full canon. God just wants to help them who's seeking Him.
a Quick video on God's name (The Tetragrammaton)...
ua-cam.com/video/mwHKhU-7SMM/v-deo.htmlsi=oFOWrEkk6GghaU-N
Actually there are plenty of people here in the U.S. that are bilingual or more, like myself. God bless.
Awesome! But we’re a minority. :|
Thank you for this. As a native German speaker who came to Christ in Germany and loved my Martin Luther (1965) Bibel and then later the Elberfelder and had the Living Bible as my very first English Bible, I never understood the KJVO movement. But it shook my faith for a while, until I read and read argument and counter-argument after argument and counter-argument.
Now, my trust in the authority and inerrancy of Scripture is stronger than ever.
Wonderful!
I'm really excited to see what you have in store for us, as I often anticipate the upcoming videos when I see them on my feed! But be careful how you group people when you describe the problems that you perceive. In this video you describe the harmful attitudes of KJVOs, but you also swing back and forth between that group and Americans in general in your assessment of people who are privileged and arrogant simply because they may only speak English and no other language. It's not a problem that some people only speak English and may never venture outside of the US; I have yet to see that as criteria for holy living. Maybe they don't have the gift of learning multiple languages or traveling, but they may have the gift of giving and pouring millions of dollars into seminaries and missions initiatives around the world! The US itself is a mission field. One body, many parts; we do not all have the same gifts. You and I have a desire to learn languages, travel, and be Bible nerds, but that doesn't make us the paradigm. As a side note, I've learned from my travels that many foreigners are excited to learn English often making it difficult for me to learn their language!
You're right! I don't mean to blame monolingualists for being monolingualists. I mean to ask them to be humble, to recognize where they need to tread lightly-and arguments about translation is one of those areas.
Your last point is well made, I found it nearly impossible to learn any Swedish, Dutch or Hungarian during the periods when I was working in Sweden, Holland and Hungary respectively. Everyone wanted to practice their English. The fact is, the internet is making English the new lingua franca in many parts of the world just as it did in India under British adminstration. That’s not an arrogant assertion, it’s just the way things have developed. As an aside, it was often joked during the era when the sun never set on the British Empire that if you spoke loudly and clearly in the King’s English, every native would understand you. That was real arrogance!
Very great video. English is a very useful language to know, in many contexts, in varied countries.
But yes, the value of Bible translation is like Joseph's grain stores-- beyond measure.
And of course at Pentecost, where they likely all knew enough Greek, the Holy Spirit had those thick-accented Galileans speaking to the people in their own heart languages clearly!
But yet, Peter's sermon, in whichever language, won 3,000 of them to Christ, right there and then, even with such a motley audience.
(And yes, some hold that the miracle occurred in how the crowd heard, not in how the apostles spoke.)
:--}>
Every language has amazing miraculous stories behind their translations, the KJV was translated by 47 people in different parts of the world in perfect syncrony, the RV (Reina-Valera) was made by one man! Casiodoro de Reina in a span of 12 years as he was chased down by the Inquisition, many of his friends that helped him move in secret died burned alive. Later, after his death, a friend and collaborator, Cipriano de Valera, revised the text, so, to this day, our most read and famous translation of the Holy Bible to Spanish is called Reina-Valera, a reminder of the heroes that risked their lives to bring us the word of God. Be it the incredible story of the KJV, or the inspiring story of the RV, one learns one main theme: to have a translation in your language is nothing more than God’s infinite love, and a miracle. Let’s never allow ourselves to take the Holy Bible for granted. And let’s keep praying for those who are still praying for their miracle.
Right!
Such a beautiful video Brother, and an embarrassing indictment of comfortable English speakers. I will never forget my daughter telling friends at stateside Sunday school about life in South Korea. How some of the girls (including the Pastor's daughter) rolled their eyes and proclaimed nations abroad as "gross" and "weird." Never mind that our daughter is half Korean, born and raised there and Korean was her first language. Several times I heard pastors tell individuals and congregations that every Christian (regardless of background) needing to learn the English of the KJV. No surprise that these issues happened in Fundamentalist churches. My argument was that Jesus didn't speak English, and that it didn't even exist 2000 years ago. And that the RCC of yesterday demanded that believers approach God through Latin. As well as your argument concerning Arabic and Islam. The minority that spouts this nonsense needs to learn to love others and remember that humanity is actually of one flesh- descended from Adam and Eve. Thank you for all that are doing! 🙏🏼
✔
Love the video Bro. Mark. I am no Biblical scholar nor historian. I do try to inform myself by watching a lot of videos on translation, manuscripts, Biblical history etc.. After a lot of research, I do not lean toward any particular Greek manuscripts. I think we can glean alot from all three. I say all this to say that anyone who says that you have to learn English to read the only Bible thats the true Word of God, the KJV, is just blatantly arrogant and patently ignorant. Blessings!
Well said!
Sorry, bro. I really want to like this video, but I can't understand it! I think I need the video translated it into KJV English in order to understand it. :)
On a serious note, this is a good video! Short of learning the biblical languages, I wish more people would read a book like One Bible, Many Versions by Dave Brunn to better appreciate how translation works. Brunn served for decades as a Bible translator (along with other roles) in Papua New Guinea among the Lamogai people.
Yes! I love that book!
Mock on.
That room is the most burdensome in the entire museum. I cry every time I see it. We are so blessed with an abundance that we argue over which one is right. Such arrogance.
Right. Hence the righteous anger. =(
Hi Mark. For centuries it has been claimed that Christ and his Apostles used the Septuagint Greek translation of the Old Testament. With the rise of KJV Onlyism and Ruckmanism, many KJV Onlyists claim that the existence of a Pre-Christian Septuagint is a hoax and did not exist. Maybe you should make a video on this subject.
An excellent idea. I've had this on my radar for a few years but never put the time in to make a video.
😋@@markwardonwords
There are fragments of the Septuagint in the Dead Sea Scrolls, indicating that, at least in part, it existed prior to the New Testament. Also, most of the Old Testament quotations in the New Testament match up with the Septuagint. You'd have to seriously jump through hoops with any counter-arguments to these.
Questions,
1. God's Word translation? Any good?
2. Speaking of languages and none being better, The Bible was just translated into Klingon- to me it is a mockery- what say you? Anyone else have an opinion?
My opinion- This is the most Holiest Book that people are literally dying for, and someone decided for giggles to translate it into a made up a language for no actual benefit or purpose.
1. Yes! A little too functional for my tastes as a preacher. But as a reader, fine!
2. I'd be willing to consult the translators. Translating the Bible at all, into any language, is a healthy and helpful exercise. It forces you to ask questions you'd never think to ask about the meaning of so many things. However, my guess is the same as yours. I'm not hopeful.
English is the Latin of US evangelicals. And no hate for US evangelicals, but we all have our blind spots! :)
Interesting point you made about being monolingual. As a Swede, I learned English at a very young age, and Swedish from my parents, so I've not experienced being monolingual as an adult. I haven't even considered the implications of only knowing one language, what that would do for understanding how translation works. I get a lot for free in that sense!
You better be careful telling people your from nearby Alexandria, they’ll think you’re talking about Alexandria, Egypt lol.
Ha! You're right!
@@markwardonwords I must admit I did allow myself a wry smile at that. “A-ha! That explains EVERYTHING!"
With all respect, I feel kind of like this is a reprimand lacking a source problem. Aside from KJV-only folks (and I don't know any personally) I don't know anyone who claims that their language translation is the only one that matters nor have I come across that idea online.
You're right: the KJV-Onlyists are pretty much my sole target here.
@@markwardonwords Ah, okay. Thank you for clarifying.
As a person who lives in a former British colony, whose ancestors came somewhere from the African continent, I have no idea where, and might have some distant relatives living somewhere else in the world due to the abomination that brought these Africans to this side of the word, English sometimes feel like a repressive language to me. I have to fight the feeling and get over it, but there are times when I think I'm only speaking English because of slavery. True, I might not have even existed if my ancestors weren't hauled and tied up like animals and brought to the new world to make others rich at the cost of their blood. As a Jamaican, we have our own direct (patois) which not too many people outside the Caribbean would understand. They'd pick up on some words because it's a dialect that has many English word in it. There is actually a New Testament translation in Jamaican Patois. Languages are never constants. One time the lingua franca was Greek, then it was French I believe, and now it's English. If there was ever a special language we could call thus, it would be the first language that the entire world spoke pre Babel. But I'm sure no one knows exactly what that language is. I'm very grateful that God is multi lingual.
As a bilingual person, it just baffles me, and honestly irritates me and really saddens me the culture of arrogance and entitlement in the US (no offense to anyone) on so many aspects, especially language.
Working as an interpreter I've seen how sometimes people are mistreated, mocked and just denied help because they dared break out of their shell and are making an effort to learn a new language and communicate even if they have a thick accent or make some mistakes along the way.
It just gets me so irritated how this attitude has come into the church who should be humble and serve those around her, and now she thinks she's too good for that and the gospel should be monolingual and elitist. "Christian" America is no different than the Pharisees of old. I'm sorry. I mean no disrespect. It really breaks my heart.
I have done this very thing more than once as a young person. I was an arrogant jerk toward ESL speakers. I repented long ago!
@@markwardonwordsI wouldn't have known if you hadn't mentioned it, and I can see your repentance is genuine for all you do to raise awareness on these issues.
It really saddens me because the church should be humble like Christ and we should take the gospel to every tongue, not hoard it.
Thank you again for your ministry. It's been a haven of refreshment ever since moving to the US three years ago and experiencing this unfortunate issue first hand.
Clearly God's language is English. I tried using a French Bible the other day and it just wasn't as clear and when I read it in English it made perfect sense!
;)
English is the lingua franca of the world.
And Chinese is the other lingua franca. Depends on where you are.
Speaking in Tongues has a purpose.
Agreed!
Everyone should know that there is a Holy Language, and it is Hebrew. A major cause of errors in traditional Christian theology is the separation from the original Jewish Roots of our faith. Jesus, being Jewish and raised in a cultural Jewish setting, can only be more properly understood from a Jewish-Roots perspective. A great error of (western) Christian thought is that a false belief exists that the New Testament is originally written in Greek. This is not true and Greek scholars have admitted that the Greek language of the NT is not proper Greek - that it demonstrates it is a translation from the original Hebrew documents. Jerome mentions this as well. See 'Understanding the Difficult Words of Jesus' by David Bivin and Roy Blizzard for proof on this matter. Jesus spoke Hebrew.
I am sure God has a lot to do with English. Interestingly, for someone who claims usage determines meaning, there is a blindness to English usage for the Gospel determines or indicates God's providence.
Please interact with the arguments made in the video.
@@markwardonwords That God both made and designed all languages, yet somehow God has not designed English in any special way any more than any other, does that make sense? The same God who designs is the one who can use one above another. The clay cannot backchat the potter.
Providentially, we see both the wide use of English and that we have such a good Bible, the King James Version.
How much better it is that we have English as a means of reaching more people everywhere, and how much benefit is it for this to occur, both naturally (i.e. for commerce) and spiritually (allowing others access to the best Bible in the world)?
English has been used of God, and that the KJB is perfect, are not statements based on arrogance, but providence and, more importantly, Bible doctrine. Yes, there are verses and passages which point to these concepts. (I know full well that the modernistic methods of hermeneutics will of course seek to dissuade of this truth.)
And yes, while it has been laudable to bring translations and Bible teaching to the various nations and tribes in the past, it is true that the best Bible and the BEST THEOLOGY exists in English. So the nations of today into the future are being served better by this.
God does choose instruments. You know very well that Jacob was preferred over Esau. So likewise the Jacobian Bible over the pride and so called “wisdom” of Edom.
Just because God used Hebrew, Syriack and Greek once upon a time does not mean or require continuous favour with those languages or manuscripts. No Scripture teaches that, and Providence itself shows the opposite. The Reformation was in fact all about translation, not retention of Latin or Greek, for then would not the Gospel preaching have been accompanied by teaching Greek and Latin etc. to the masses? But now those former things are left behind, they have waxed old and are ready to vanish away.
What was before in multiple languages of Hebrew and Greek is now in one, English. The twain are made one, better than what we had before.
The God who is able to speak any language (Acts 2) is also the God who has one message to be made known to the nations, and, as it says in Zephaniah 3:9, turn them to A pure language. Again, while Isaiah 28:11 is taken (as by Paul) to speak of the speaking in other tongues, it is also shown that the same passage says ANOTHER tongue, meaning one language. Ironically, the Pentecostal movement today both has arisen and perpetuates from one language group, being the English-speakers.
Also seeing that the languages of Hebrew, Syriack and Greek (and those places in the Gospel where it is clearly Hebrew not alleged “Aramaic”) are not spoken today, how more obvious is it to have God’s words in a living, present and powerful language: English?
“You have to encounter God’s Word in translation.” And there is one key, blessed language: Biblical English. (This is not to say that other translations are evil, no, the God of grace has allowed imperfect translations, and that which has been helpful for the various non-English speakers of the world is not to be anathemised though the progress towards the universality of one English Bible as a final standard is coming to pass.)
To argue that other language groups have “claims on our conscience” is a perverted doctrine. Yes, the Gospel should go to nations, but that should not be a reason to disparage or wear a black arm band about English. That’s what woke people do, they apologise for English, they try to “revive” neo-Hebrew, Welsh or Australian Aboriginal constructs in line with an antichristian anti-English view.
So to call God’s plan of the excellence of the Bible and the spreading of the Gospel in English as “arrogance” or “chauvinism” is surely misguided.
As if to prove the common foundation of Infidelity behind wokery and this attack on English, we have Mark Ward suggesting something that sounds suspiciously like open borders and promoting illegal immigrants. This indicative leftwing ideology is antithetical to what is found in the proper interpretation of Scripture.
We note the reality of foreigners learning English, and the education of people who interact with Biblical English (the KJB), yet Mark Ward, driven by something (?!) admits that such views make him angry!
All families/nations of the Earth are to be blessed, and Christ Jesus coming to the nations today is going to be a unitary Gospel which has, under God, its highest expression in the English-speaking peoples. This is evident both historically with missionary endeavours in recent centuries, but is also evident as far as what is the Holy Ghost destiny evident (or “manifest”) among us.
Mark Ward’s call to arms to try to topple the supremacy of English is an attempt to attack the power of the truth in English in its world reaching power.
@@bibleprotector *yet somehow God has not designed English in any special way any more than any other, does that make sense?*
Anglocentrism 101.
@@MAMoreno Providence and Bible promises/prophecies show you are in denial. That is just another iteration of "The Bible is just like any other book". Only recently, I realised that anti-special views are in line with cessationism. It run parallel with Biblical transmission deism.
I caught that , you are premillennial .
Yes, I am.
@@markwardonwords oh no , I’m amill only .
The irony to me is that English was not even a language until 400 or more years after the gospels were written.
I did mention the "languages of wider communication." I don't really know what it's like to speak an indigenous language and Spanish-but I do know what it's like to talk to such folks in Spanish. I struggle very hard to understand them, whereas native, monolingual Spanish speakers are a lot easier for me. I think that says something about the level of command of Spanish that indigenous people typically have-or at least the ones I've met.
@@markwardonwords LOL I though I had deleted that part ??? Anyway - Mark I am sure that you did. There is no one ever that I have met or watched that is more thorough, as fair, better in communication, and must use the best microphones available because you audio is always top professional quality also. I love the subject and I always enjoy your videos. You are like a blessing.
@@jdwagman Thank you! You're just wrong about the audio! I really struggle there!
@@markwardonwords
I just have a very different attitude because the Lord revealed himself to me with many gratuitous miracles long before I had even seen a bible much less read it, ... much less understood it. Because of this I know that there will not be anyone he wants to save that will be left behind. He has already written his laws in our hearts. The bible is just a bonus. But it is a very gigantic bonus and we should all appreciate all the work that people do to preserve it, translate it, and distribute it. It is our owners manual for salvation.
Yes. We American Christians can have such a culture of arrogance.
language itself is god's language how else do you explain true human creativity like how babies learn language without being taught. hebrew, greek, english as long as gods words strike your soul you don't need to delve into such deep things unless you like to torture yourself with interdisciplinary academics like I do 😁.
part of the reason I don't believe in bible inerrancy and believe in ongoing revelation. I have found gods word in every "holy" book I have come across. there is a reason oral bible traditions exist and spreading the word to people without the book is just as valid.
I had a pretty negative view of what you were doing because of the seemingly blissful endorsement of plactically all Bible translations barring the KJV. You aren't a woman so you don't understand how the blatant mishandling of several OT texts to make it appear that a rape victim had to marry her rapist and an adulteress' child is aborted with the bitter waters test has caused many women to stumble and should be enough to disqualify a translation from consideration. The NIV has this issue and many, many others. Certain accommodations of literal Jewish polemics against Christianity also have no place in a Christian translation. Liberal textual criticism is also highly questionable--a pure TR is much nearer the truth than the hatchet job on thin pretenses they do.
But I do think you're becoming more discerning about translations other than the KJV, and I really respect that. I especially appreciate the fact that you realize the horrible garbage passed off as translations of the Bible in Arabic. I work with Muslims in direct ministry, and that's a big issue. And I appreciate that.
And there is no other side. Western fools are taking ADVICE from imams about how to "evangelize" to Muslims and of course are having as much success as you would expect. They actively undermine our efforts, when we see the harvest every day and they will go 30 years of "ministry" without a single convert.
Why would you think God isn’t a respecter of nations given he literally chose one individual nation by which all nations will serve during the millennial reign of the Lord Jesus Christ?
You also seem certain (for whatever reason) that God did not chose English yet when he went about accomplishing the most important, published, printed, distributed, and influential literary work in the history of mankind he chose English by which to accomplish said work.
Some of reasonings seem extremely illogical. I say this with charity but what is your prayer life like? Do you feel like your prayer life is where it needs to be?
No reply.
@@markwardonwords understandable. I just cannot fathom how a Christian devices this type of logic and argument. Sure in regard to the offer of salvation by grace through faith God is no respecter of persons. But nations? Bibles? Languages?
God chooses and rejects pertaining to the establishment of his will. Jacob have I loved by Esau have I have. The nations counted as the drop of a bucket. One Messiah through one lineage.
The reality is that God has to chose and reject. Sure this argument might have its merits to an individual with an ecumenical framework and belief system but God has nothing of the sort.
At the end of the day (and I say this knowing you knowing it), everything takes a back seat to the KJB. Why? Well because it has to. There can only be one. Sure, faithful translations are great but subservient. Modern translations can be helpfully used yet still subservient.
Maybe I’m way in left field but I cannot fathom how we are on different pages here (and your logic is so off) unless your spending an exponentially larger time studying than praying.
*You also seem certain (for whatever reason) that God did not chose English yet when he went about accomplishing the most important, published, printed, distributed, and influential literary work in the history of mankind he chose English by which to accomplish said work.*
Replace "English" with "Latin" and you have the viewpoint of the Vatican from the Council of Trent until the early 20th century. Replace "English" with "Greek" and you have the viewpoint still held by much of the Eastern Orthodox Church today. The Bible--not any one translation of it--can be called "the most important, published, printed, distributed, and influential literary work in the history of mankind."
@@MAMoreno those viewpoints would be wrong though so what would it matter? The facts are that the most printed, distributed, published, influential, authoritative, and complete literary (and overall) achievement in the history of mankind in the KJB.
The Latin and the Greek were before the printing press. Those works pale in comparison to the Authorized English Bible of 1611.
We all know that here.
@@fordhughes Your viewpoint is wrong as well. The KJV does not fit any of those descriptions.
Exactly right - English is not a special language. Please learn another language!
Learn Spanish to better understand Jesus 😉
@@jimyoung9262 Actually, sometimes reading the Bible in another language that one knows can be enlightening, e.g. John 1:5 in German: 'Und das Licht leuchtet in der Finsternis, und die Finsternis hat es nicht *begriffen*' (Schlachter 2000 version). 'Begriffen' means 'understood', 'comprehended' or 'grasped'. Possible translation back into English: 'And the light shines in the darkness and the darkness hasn't grasped it'.
That seed is not the scriptures, and certainly not some version of the scriptures called the bible. That seed is Jesus the Christ. Please note that He said He will not leave us.
He said, "If you love me keep my commands". Are we to assume that His commands ended with His ascension to heaven? Oh no, not ever! We are serving a living God. If you are not hearing from God, who are you serving?
Your denomination? Your congregation? Your pastor?
Serve the living God! Not some glorified book that men put together.
Get to know God and learn how to follow Him my friends! He is our deliverance! No book or even what you consider to be the scriptures can ever fill in for the truth that we are called to serve a living God! Just like Noah. Just like Abraham.
Please consider this: by faith Abel still speaks, even though he is dead. Really consider this my friends.
Noah when warned about things not yet seen, in holy fear built an ark to save his family.
By faith, Abraham and Sarah, and all these people were living by faith even when they died!
They did not receive that promise! They only saw them and welcomed them from a distance. They were longing for a heavenly place. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, and He has prepared a city for them!
Do not be a hearer only! Be a doer and hear from the living God and do His bidding!
Wow! You attack the King James Bible even at the Museum of the Bible. I suppose you feel some of the best English literature should stay in the museum.
I am ashamed we have a glut of unnecessary English translations while many in the world have none. Pretty much how I feel about food too, as much of the world goes hungry.
I do think we have too many translations, especially when so many world Christians go without.
But I do not attack the King James Bible. I agree that it constitutes great English literature, and I love the KJB. I don't have to attack the Wycliffe Bible to say that its English is no longer our English. I don't have to attack Tyndale to say that its spelling conventions make it difficult to read for modern readers. Same goes for the KJV. I honor the KJV by calling for continued revision. Read the preface to the KJV, brother, especially the beginning! I make the same arguments the KJV translators do!