Does off-grid solar confuse you? Check out my DIY friendly website for solar system packages and product recommendations, and so much more! www.mobile-solarpower.com Join our DIY solar community! #1 largest solar forum on the internet for beginners and professionals alike: www.diysolarforum.com Check out my best-selling, beginner-friendly 12V off-grid solar book (affiliate link): amzn.to/2Aj4dX4 If DIY is not for you, but you love solar and need an offgrid system, check out Tesla Solar. Low prices and great warranty, and they can take your entire house offgrid with their new Powerwalls: ts.la/william57509 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ My solar equipment recommendations (Constantly updated! Check here first): 12V/48V Lithium Batteries: www.mobile-solarpower.com/solar-batteries.html Solar System Component Directory: www.mobile-solarpower.com/solarcomponents.html Plug-N-Play Systems: www.mobile-solarpower.com/full-size-systems.html Complete 48V System Kits: www.mobile-solarpower.com/complete-48v-solar-kits.html DIY Friendly Air Conditioner/ Heat Pumps: www.mobile-solarpower.com/solar-friendly-air-conditioners.html Complete 48V System Blueprint: www.mobile-solarpower.com/48v-complete-system-blueprint.html ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ My Favorite Online Stores for DIY Solar and Coupon Codes: -Current Connected: SOK, Victron and High Quality Components. Best prices and warranty around: currentconnected.com/?ref=wp -Signature Solar: Cheap Server Rack Batteries and Large Solar Panels: www.signaturesolar.com/?ref=h-cvbzfahsek -Ecoflow Delta Official Site: My favorite plug-n-play solar generator: us.ecoflow.com/?aff=7 -AmpereTime: Cheapest 12V batteries around: amperetime.com/products/ampere-time-12v-100ah-lithium-lifepo4-battery?ref=h-cvbzfahsek -Rich Solar: Mega site and cheaper prices than renogy! Check them out: richsolar.com/?ref=h-cvbzfahsek -Shop Solar Kits: Huge site with every solar kit you can imagine! Check it out: shopsolarkits.com/?ref=will-p -Battery Hookup: Cheap cell deals bit.ly/2mIxSqt 10% off code: diysolar -Watts 24/7: Best deals on all-in-one solar power systems, with customer support and distribution here in the USA: watts247.com/?wpam_id=3 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Contact Information: I am NOT available for personal solar system consult! If you wish to contact me, this is my direct email: williamprowsediysolar@gmail.com Join the forum at diysolarforum.com/ if you wish to hang out with myself and others and talk about solar FTC Disclosure Statement and Disclaimers: Every video includes some form of paid promotion or sponsorship. Some links on this youtube channel may be affiliate links. We may get paid if you buy something or take an action after clicking one of these. My videos are for educational purposes only. Information is subject to change/update at any time. Electricity is DANGEROUS and can kill. Be smart and use common sense :) DIY Solar Power with Will Prowse is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, An affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com
being confident enough to admit mistakes to large crowds....is a tremendous asset. Everyone makes mistakes...even the great will prowse....(I am a fan)....now we all got to learn a bit more about things from your mistake....thanks...these are the kind of things that create life long supporters...and I'm one.
Good admission! Seen a vid where a guy said you were mistaken. A good person admits their mistakes. We all make mistakes and I appreciate you owning up. You have a great channel bro! Happy Thanksgiving!
One can appreciate the humility of your attitude regarding your work. I enjoy the informative videos you provide and encourage you to keep up the good work.
I'm running Toshiba's LTO cells in my 71 Harley build. They are heavy. Twice the weight of lithium ion however the benefits out weigh that. I'm very impressed with what I've found. I have a 60 mile range and can achieve speeds in excess of 90mph. Being able to not need cooling or heating is great! I can use all available regen and I can charge with almost any power source. Not to mention I've got 108 cells that I have yet had to balance. 🤷🏼♂️ Plus thinking I can leave these to my family when I pass or the ability to repurpose them into any application I want in the future is a huge +!
It is so refreshing to hear someone calling sources out and saying it as it is, without the typical b.s. And you use the same approach to yourself. I love how you are purely about the knowledge and discovering ways to push new battery tech with new inverter tech with new solar tech to their limits. And your own limit.
It's not biased to advocate for the appropriate technology for an application. I've watched a fair amount of your videos all seem fair. Thank you for your sincere content.
Man, we always know you'll serve up the truth! Thanks for revisiting Titanate - as others have said, it takes integrity to clear up mistakes & misunderstandings, and I really do commend you for that. You provide thoughtful and reasoned explanations for what chemistry is ideal for different applications. The fact that we may not consider Titanate the most ideal chemistry for solar power systems doesn't mean it's not incredible technology! I always appreciate your critical approach because at the end of the day, it's just too easy to convince ourselves that things are either 100% good or 100% bad. Life - and battery chemistry, alike - is typically a bit more nuanced than that :)
I think they are perfect for a garage/out building shop where you need high amp out put to run an electric motor for an hour or 2 and you don’t temp control the area.
The safety of these should be put into the equation of application. Efficiency, life span, temperature range, and large currents is a list that combines to make a stronger factor than individually. I am sure there is overlap of chemistries in use situations. Thinking of the whole system and how it interacts with other components and requirements is the path to finding a fit. Often a good fit is more usable than a system of the best components.
Question where do you get your BMS for the Lithium Titanate Battery and why can't you use 5 in series? The discharge curve for these batteries is 2.1 volts to 2.8 volts per cell, so with 5 cells at minimum 10.5 volts to 14 volts fully charged.
I think the insane longevity justifies all of it's flaws. I wanna get these kinda batteries for my electric bike in the future. I know it's not gonna be cheap and it won't have high capacity, but really high longevity and small charge time are very important for electric transport
@@IndenturedUA-camSlave My LiFePo4 battery was tested by driving a steel rod through it. It didn't catch fire. The massive cost of Lithium Titanate is just too high to justify its widespread use. Maybe in some specific applications they can be justified, but doubtful they will ever be mainstream.
@@michaeldoherty2289 they are already mainstream in buses in cold countries where -safety is critically important -charging speed needs to be super high -charging in low temperatures is required -high longevity is needed so they wouldn't need to be replaced every 1-2 years. and they work perfectly there
@@TabalugaDragon I think they are used mainly in consumer electronics, probably because they use small batteries so the high unit cost isn't as much a factor. Don't get me wrong, they are really amazing batteries. I would never argue that they aren't superior. It just that the cost factor for large batteries is making them very difficult to justify compared to other chemistries.
Having the integrity to correct an error will serve you. Don’t let the losers who attack you to try to raise themselves get under your skin. You have one of the most informative and honest channels in this media. Keep on track and it will be rewarded.
Hey Will, I have also done a few tests on my cells and I have discovered that when I do a one C charge / discharge at -15 degrees F. I receive roughly 85% of the capacity when compared to one C charge / discharge at 70 degrees F. These cells are perfect for cold weather applications when I use a 24 volt -> 12 volt converter. I lose roughly 5% in efficiency, but I need these cells to work in negative temps for the application that I have without the cells being destroyed.
@@entune85 I bought from AliExpress the RCNUN model RC241230L as 30 amps was plenty for me. I tested it using the 150 watt discharge tester Will demonstrated in one of his videos. I tested with a load of 150 watts on the output side, and saw an incoming draw of roughly 156 watts. So that would be slightly better than the advertised 95% efficiency.
@@herbertwerner2287, I do not trust or want to risk an insulated box being able to keep the temp above freezing. I have a remote hunting cabin where I attached a solar Panel to charge a bank of 8 LiFepo4 batteries that I put in a 50 gallon plastic barrel that I dug into the ground. This works great as the ground is above freezing because of the insulation we put down. I have a breathing tube and access panel as well.
@@Aaron_Peters Oh I see Aaron, ya I didn't know you where doing that I thought you were asking for an idea of how. I like your idea, I had thought of that myself and then forgot about it. Plus I would just think that might be all around safer to have them where if anything were to go wrong with them they would be in safer place.
I agree about the cost but the LTO w/6cells (if you have the money) should do fine in a nominal 12v solar application so long as your battery capacity is well matched to your solar array. Even solar modules made for charging 12v circuits typically have an Vmp of about 18v and there are programmable charge controllers that can configured to operate in the optimal range. That said, the loads would need to be checked for higher voltage tolerance or use a high efficiency dc to dc converter.
Can you get your hands on some alternate technologies like zinc bromide flow batteries and test them? I know Redflow out of Australia makes a good zinc bromide flow battery.
LTO is most used lithium type in car audio at the moment. Works very well for that application and majority of cars can handle 15-16V charging voltage. No one uses BMS but I've seen some using balancers. I don't have any because after half a year of use the voltage difference between cells was only 0.01V, I had the cells in paraller for 24 hours before assembly
Yes, that is exactly what I do in mine for anything not running directly on 24v. Also buck down to 19v for a computer monitor and charging a laptop. And down to 5v for usb charging.
I think they're great for telecommunication towers. We use 24v DC systems. This would help with the long term cost of keeping a highsite running with backup power. Would also combat the theft problem due to their weight.
@@Coladudetje yes. Buck/Boost circuit. There's quite a few options for the Telco industry now. Can customise every aspect of the system and manage everything remotely.
Thanks. This video clarifies everything with respect to the differences between LTO & LiFePO4. Both have their advantages and places. You can puncture or freeze an LTO but LiFePO4 is perfect for me in a warm climate.
Congrats on redoing this, admitting the errors in your earlier videos, and just being you. :) Yes, these have negatives as compared to LiFePO4, but they are a valid option with some positives when using A Grade cells. (The biggest issue I see is for people wanting to use only a 12V system, but most home setups will be either 24V or 48V.)
Will, Most of your viewers know your are 100% genuine and honest. Viewers that think your a shill are completely off there rocker, or maybe there meds. Well done.
I love my 100 Ah LiFePO4 DIY battery I built after watching Will's videos. I used Sinopoly cells, a Daly BMS and a water tight plastic amo case. It works great in my sailboat to power my 12 volt systems and 40# thrust trolling motor. I charge the battery with Renogy 100W suitcase panels. I just bought another, so 200W next summer. :) Thank you, Will, for showing me the way!
When the cost comes down, I am really attracted to the idea of getting 55 years (before they get to 80%) out of them in a solar application. That makes potentially a several hundred year use case...
I have a LG 6s BMW LTO as a 12volt car battery! Here in Illinois it comes in handy, due the winter months! Seen too many guys lead acid battery freeze during winter!
Thank you Will, you just proved why the Elechive by Zero Breeze has a 35v min voltage for solar charging. They even made their 100w panels to act like a 24v panel ("Our 100w panel is customized with the output of 35V."). Just what we don't need. I canceled my order when they started flip-flopping between 400w solar and 800w solar charging. Still. I look forward to your review, as they said they were sending you one.
No one is perfect Will. But you are damn close to perfect. Lol. You have no idea how many old ladies watch your videos. Seriously. Out of the 55+ year old women that are nomadic about 75% know of you and equally love you and are so proud of you. Brings tears to my eyes. Seriously. You are every mom and grandmas dream child. Just know you are loved by many. Thank you for being you.
You deserve lots of credit for making this video and explaining how nd why you made a mistake. Most people's ego would not even think of believing they could be wrong or admit they where incorrect.
My system is a 48v hybrid off-grid system. I put together two 48v 200Ah Lifepo4 and hook the two in parallel to get 400Ah. Almost always when supplying load to till it cut off point. 1. How come the other 48v tray does not drain to its lowest cut off voilts? And when the system charges back up. 2. Does it suppose to charge one tray at a time? I all so heard you have mention in one of your clip saying that battery do not like to be parrarel . 3. LIke to know why and how to make it like one another so it can supply load equally? THanx for information. keep up the good work.
This is great, I ended up ordering a 12volt set to test out what you said before because I disagreed, also I intended on using them in a stationary set up. I just moved from your part of the world to an off grid farm I wanted these to run some heavy equipment in the barn, I’ll let you know how it goes. Thanks for the update!
Good job Will. Everything has it's place, and LTO's could make for a better solar system if you really need them AND if you can afford the technology. If you can't use something because you can't pay for it, then it doesn't matter what it can do for you.
if there is one thing us human All have alike is we all have made done said mistakes. now as for people who can catch correct and be willing to admit those mistakes well those are the rare and exceptional folks like yourself sir keep up the good work.
Will, curious if you have decoded this Winnebago Volta electrical system ""Pure3 Advanced Energy System uses safe, dependable automotive-grade technology to provide up to 9,600 watt-hours of power (12,800 with optional 4-module energy pack) for extended off grid stays (59GL, 59KL)."" 9,600 watt-hours would be 8 Battle Born batteries , correct ? The battery modules don't appear to be big enough for 200 Ah batteries.
I do like the video Will well done. Thanks for the test results as it directly relates to my LTO batteries. I see you point about lithium phosphate batteries. They are the best and I agree with that. For me it is the cycle life that grabs me and the low temperature charging. As you mentioned in the future other types, maybe solid state, and yeah changes will come as time passes by, and so will the batteries I will use. Enjoyed the live stream chat last night. And thanks for addressing LTO batteries and the issues you talked about. Great stuff !!
I use a 80 amp mppt a 5000w inverter two 12v 200Ah batteries powered by 3x 250w solar panels later six total. where and what size fuse and where should I place it? Also later I would like to add three 100 war panels how would I wire them to my six first panels
These really shine in remote outdoor solar applications like radio repeaters, mesh nodes, and weather stations where you will encounter sub-freezing and possibly very hot temperatures. I wish you could find deals in a smaller form factor that 60138, 60160, 66160 as these are overkill for LoRa mesh nodes (and you have to do 2S for most of these applications). I am experimenting with Li-ion and LiFePO4 burial beneath the frost line for LoRa in Arizona where we get both high and low extremes.
I have a very specific use case for LTO - IoT equipment in remote locations. I like the fact that LTO cells will charge without issue in very cold weather and the long life cycle offers much reduced maintenance. My question relates to charging. It looks like LTO batteries in 1S configuration will work well with a constant voltage charger with a specific cut off voltage of around 2.8V and no trickle charge. If so one of the adjustable SLA battery charger modules will do the job just fine. I do not need large capacity - 10 Ah will be fine maybe 20 Ah depending on operational factors. The voltage will need to be boosted to around 4V. Am I on the right path:
Ok will I'm putting together a stationary solar generator w li fe p, in conjunction with a bank of super caps, so the heart would be lithium iron phosphate,but the caps would be their to help with heavy starting loads, like an oxygen machine, or a blower fan for the swamp cooler. What r ur thoughts on that.????
That system would be too complicated, not to mention all the trouble one has to go through to get the authentic batteries! Thanx for your honest input, like you I’ll stick to lipo 4 until the technology gets better! 👍
I want a good set up for my full time. Living RV off grid, looking at purpose built rack batteries, my question is, waht volagae is best 12, 24,48 and wahst the max KW system, need to run lights, computers, kettel, starlink fridge microwave etc I have looked at 5 kw systems, but can I really accommodate enough panels to charge such a unit and advice would be great
I am looking to replace the lead acid batteries in my class 8 Commercial trucks. They operate 4 12v batteries in temperatures between -45° ~ +150° F. I currently have to replace them 1 to 2 times a year. They draw around 900 Cranking Amps. And cost around $400.00 to replace (about $100 each). Any ideas or information would be greatly appreciated.
Hi, I Live in a constant winter cold, freezing, and dark environment and use the off-grid small solar system for lights. I must buy or make a 12v winter battery, so it can charge fast in sub-zero temperatures and it can also work in a minus -10C to -20C. What is the best solution LTO perhaps? Thanks.a lot Alex
Hi Will. I enjoy your videos. I have a MS in Physics and pretty much understand everything you are posting. However, I have a specific application question. I have a 4WD golf cart. Currently uses 8 each 6 Volt 200 A-h batteries. I would like to replace those with lithium of some type. The buggy uses 2 each 18HP or 13.5kW electric motors. The motor controller is a 600 amp. So, it pulls a lot of peak current. I think it drops back to 100 to 200 amps just rolling along. I can buy 12V 100 A-h LiFePO4 batteries for about $150 each. A 4S4P setup would be $1200. However, I need at least 200 Amp Continuous discharge and 600 Amp peak. The LiFePO4 batteries fall just a little short of this. To replace the Pb Acid batteries costs about $1200 as well. I have also looked at LiTi or LTO and 22 each 40 A-h cells look attractive at a comparable price. However, in both cases the BMS limits the discharge. I am seriously thinking of using 20 or 22 cells of LTO without a BMS. What do you think??
Luckily you did a little ;-) That wouldn't have kept me away from going to use LTO on my scooters to transport the necessary energy. Thanks for giving the basics. And my trials will let me see how good LTO will be performing in real day-to-day use.
Thanks for your honesty and a simple mistake is expected from us all. Great job with what you do and thanks for the information as it is very important to us DIY people. Looking forward to your future videos and ideas!
How cold can lithium titanate be charged? How cold can lipo be charged? And if you do a video comparing might as well throw lead acid in there too. I love your content.
@Will I live in Minnesota and want to have a system in a cold storage environment. I was thinking these would be great for that since the temps will get below -20F regularly. I’m willing to spend the money, but want to make sure that I’m spending it wisely. What are your thoughts?
Ahhhh thanks for clearing up that conundrum - Your earlier superstition that Titanate for super long life, fast charging with a downside of high cost, weight and bulk is still valid - I've concluded that Lifepo4 in 4S is best for my motorcycle starter & RV house battery because they are most comparable with the alternator outputs (14.2V) - and li-ion for my ebike because of power density and compact size - its a horses for courses approach - as you said in your earlier post Titanate would be best for a remote station were servicing was infrequent and where temperatures might be sub zero - it could well be "Rocket Science" at least in application : )
Will, what's your opinion: Say ya want to maximise the available energy and choosing between 11S and 12S. 12 S will have about 8% more energy from the extra cell. But ya have to limit total voltage to 30 volts for use with typical 24 volt equipment. So the cell voltage is 2.5v max. The lost energy not going to 2.6v is roughlyabout 4% I estimate from 2C curves. So I conclude for energy storage its 4% better to use 12S limited to 30v than 11S. If the BMS balancer threshold can't be adjusted accordingly, then use an active balancer. Perhaps there is an energy boost from the higher average operational voltage of 12S too. Your thoughts?
Hi ! I saw in one of your videos that you test several types of accumulators and cells. How many amperes can it be loaded with? There was LTO in the experiment. Your tester showed 500 amps. I'm looking for this video. Can you help me ? Thank you very much in advance.
A now I know why the prices were all over the place. Different grades. If they're going to sell 2nds or worse they should be labeled as such. Thank you Will
Nice video. It was great to see you get results consistent with others. Obviously, charge rate and having grade A batteries will make a huge difference in results. The large dynamic range of this chemistry is interesting to me. Finding the right application might be a home run for this type of battery. Thanks for all the effort you put into your videos. It's greatly appreciated.
Good video! Just keep doing what you are doing. The more successful you get the more there's people with differing opinions. All you can do is go off the best information you have at any given time. I hope the comments don't ware you down or change you. Stay positive, you do great work!
Thank you very much sir.Sir I would like to make a battery bank 24 v for solar inverter.please give which cells I have to buy for solar power application.Iam having 2 nos C 10 tubular lead acid batteries currently
Hi Will, I want to build a LTO 24v pack for my Boat, because LTO is so much less of a fire hazard. Do you know if there are any good waterproof BMS for 12S or 6s setups? I think Daly make one but I cannot find it for sale anywhere.
What is the effect of altitude (5000ft and above) and great temperature ranges (yes, I am talking about CO) on different battery chemistries and solar panels. Lots of sunshine, but low angles to high angles (no jokes, please)? Also, going rving means changes in altitudes and temperature ranges.
Will, in a 48 battery bank made up of multiple 12v batteries can you use and supply 12v to one or some of the batteries. I want to fit three or four 12v 500W wind turbines to each end gable of my house, and connect each one to one of the 12v batters in the bank. Would this work?
I want to get LTO batteries for their much longer life cycle and better handling in colder temperatures. Would my solar LION/LIPO charge LTO batteries?
Does off-grid solar confuse you? Check out my DIY friendly website for solar system packages and product recommendations, and so much more! www.mobile-solarpower.com
Join our DIY solar community! #1 largest solar forum on the internet for beginners and professionals alike: www.diysolarforum.com
Check out my best-selling, beginner-friendly 12V off-grid solar book (affiliate link):
amzn.to/2Aj4dX4
If DIY is not for you, but you love solar and need an offgrid system, check out Tesla Solar. Low prices and great warranty, and they can take your entire house offgrid with their new Powerwalls: ts.la/william57509
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
My solar equipment recommendations (Constantly updated! Check here first):
12V/48V Lithium Batteries: www.mobile-solarpower.com/solar-batteries.html
Solar System Component Directory: www.mobile-solarpower.com/solarcomponents.html
Plug-N-Play Systems: www.mobile-solarpower.com/full-size-systems.html
Complete 48V System Kits: www.mobile-solarpower.com/complete-48v-solar-kits.html
DIY Friendly Air Conditioner/ Heat Pumps: www.mobile-solarpower.com/solar-friendly-air-conditioners.html
Complete 48V System Blueprint: www.mobile-solarpower.com/48v-complete-system-blueprint.html
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
My Favorite Online Stores for DIY Solar and Coupon Codes:
-Current Connected: SOK, Victron and High Quality Components. Best prices and warranty around: currentconnected.com/?ref=wp
-Signature Solar: Cheap Server Rack Batteries and Large Solar Panels:
www.signaturesolar.com/?ref=h-cvbzfahsek
-Ecoflow Delta Official Site: My favorite plug-n-play solar generator:
us.ecoflow.com/?aff=7
-AmpereTime: Cheapest 12V batteries around:
amperetime.com/products/ampere-time-12v-100ah-lithium-lifepo4-battery?ref=h-cvbzfahsek
-Rich Solar: Mega site and cheaper prices than renogy! Check them out:
richsolar.com/?ref=h-cvbzfahsek
-Shop Solar Kits: Huge site with every solar kit you can imagine! Check it out:
shopsolarkits.com/?ref=will-p
-Battery Hookup: Cheap cell deals
bit.ly/2mIxSqt
10% off code: diysolar
-Watts 24/7: Best deals on all-in-one solar power systems, with customer support and distribution here in the USA:
watts247.com/?wpam_id=3
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Contact Information:
I am NOT available for personal solar system consult! If you wish to contact me, this is my direct email: williamprowsediysolar@gmail.com
Join the forum at diysolarforum.com/ if you wish to hang out with myself and others and talk about solar
FTC Disclosure Statement and Disclaimers:
Every video includes some form of paid promotion or sponsorship. Some links on this youtube channel may be affiliate links. We may get paid if you buy something or take an action after clicking one of these. My videos are for educational purposes only. Information is subject to change/update at any time. Electricity is DANGEROUS and can kill. Be smart and use common sense :)
DIY Solar Power with Will Prowse is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program,
An affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com
being confident enough to admit mistakes to large crowds....is a tremendous asset. Everyone makes mistakes...even the great will prowse....(I am a fan)....now we all got to learn a bit more about things from your mistake....thanks...these are the kind of things that create life long supporters...and I'm one.
me two!
Very well said, I agree.👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
This is one of my favorite things about him. He’s not afraid to admit mistakes and provide updated information. He should do a video with Jehu Garcia!
That's why you won't be seeing him running for office in the future. Honesty and humility is not a prerequisite as a politician. LoL
@@rmdjapri Me THREE!!!!
Much respect . Most don't admit that kinda thing.
Good admission! Seen a vid where a guy said you were mistaken. A good person admits their mistakes. We all make mistakes and I appreciate you owning up. You have a great channel bro! Happy Thanksgiving!
One can appreciate the humility of your attitude regarding your work. I enjoy the informative videos you provide and encourage you to keep up the good work.
I'm running Toshiba's LTO cells in my 71 Harley build. They are heavy. Twice the weight of lithium ion however the benefits out weigh that. I'm very impressed with what I've found. I have a 60 mile range and can achieve speeds in excess of 90mph. Being able to not need cooling or heating is great! I can use all available regen and I can charge with almost any power source. Not to mention I've got 108 cells that I have yet had to balance. 🤷🏼♂️ Plus thinking I can leave these to my family when I pass or the ability to repurpose them into any application I want in the future is a huge +!
108 cells on a harley? suuuuuure!😂
@@ernieschatz3783 each brick has 12 cells 9 bricks equals 108. Unless I missed something while building it. Lol! 🤷🏼
Dang that sounds great. Is that all you could fit?
It is so refreshing to hear someone calling sources out and saying it as it is, without the typical b.s.
And you use the same approach to yourself. I love how you are purely about the knowledge and discovering ways to push new battery tech with new inverter tech with new solar tech to their limits. And your own limit.
at least Will , should win 1st place for the best hair
Got a little mad scientist going on today :P
He cuts it himself.
It's all that electricity lol!
He’s wearing the same clothes from last nights live so I am going with he rolled outta bed and went to work.
SuperPeteJames ditto. Lol
It's not biased to advocate for the appropriate technology for an application. I've watched a fair amount of your videos all seem fair. Thank you for your sincere content.
Man, we always know you'll serve up the truth! Thanks for revisiting Titanate - as others have said, it takes integrity to clear up mistakes & misunderstandings, and I really do commend you for that. You provide thoughtful and reasoned explanations for what chemistry is ideal for different applications. The fact that we may not consider Titanate the most ideal chemistry for solar power systems doesn't mean it's not incredible technology! I always appreciate your critical approach because at the end of the day, it's just too easy to convince ourselves that things are either 100% good or 100% bad. Life - and battery chemistry, alike - is typically a bit more nuanced than that :)
I think they are perfect for a garage/out building shop where you need high amp out put to run an electric motor for an hour or 2 and you don’t temp control the area.
Good job on seeing your mistakes! Respect
The safety of these should be put into the equation of application. Efficiency, life span, temperature range, and large currents is a list that combines to make a stronger factor than individually. I am sure there is overlap of chemistries in use situations. Thinking of the whole system and how it interacts with other components and requirements is the path to finding a fit. Often a good fit is more usable than a system of the best components.
"Often a good fit is more usable than a system of the best components." Very wise words.
Only honest people accepts ones mistakes
It shows great character and profound respect
Great job keep it up
Question where do you get your BMS for the Lithium Titanate Battery and why can't you use 5 in series?
The discharge curve for these batteries is 2.1 volts to 2.8 volts per cell, so with 5 cells at minimum 10.5 volts to 14 volts fully charged.
I think the insane longevity justifies all of it's flaws. I wanna get these kinda batteries for my electric bike in the future. I know it's not gonna be cheap and it won't have high capacity, but really high longevity and small charge time are very important for electric transport
Not really.
@@IndenturedUA-camSlave lol.
@@IndenturedUA-camSlave My LiFePo4 battery was tested by driving a steel rod through it. It didn't catch fire. The massive cost of Lithium Titanate is just too high to justify its widespread use. Maybe in some specific applications they can be justified, but doubtful they will ever be mainstream.
@@michaeldoherty2289 they are already mainstream in buses in cold countries where
-safety is critically important
-charging speed needs to be super high
-charging in low temperatures is required
-high longevity is needed so they wouldn't need to be replaced every 1-2 years.
and they work perfectly there
@@TabalugaDragon I think they are used mainly in consumer electronics, probably because they use small batteries so the high unit cost isn't as much a factor. Don't get me wrong, they are really amazing batteries. I would never argue that they aren't superior. It just that the cost factor for large batteries is making them very difficult to justify compared to other chemistries.
Having the integrity to correct an error will serve you. Don’t let the losers who attack you to try to raise themselves get under your skin. You have one of the most informative and honest channels in this media. Keep on track and it will be rewarded.
Hey Will, I have also done a few tests on my cells and I have discovered that when I do a one C charge / discharge at -15 degrees F. I receive roughly 85% of the capacity when compared to one C charge / discharge at 70 degrees F.
These cells are perfect for cold weather applications when I use a 24 volt -> 12 volt converter. I lose roughly 5% in efficiency, but I need these cells to work in negative temps for the application that I have without the cells being destroyed.
What 24 to 12 volt convert could you suggest for me? I work in cold Temps so I am going to try this route. Thanks in advance!
@@entune85 I bought from AliExpress the RCNUN model RC241230L as 30 amps was plenty for me. I tested it using the 150 watt discharge tester Will demonstrated in one of his videos. I tested with a load of 150 watts on the output side, and saw an incoming draw of roughly 156 watts. So that would be slightly better than the advertised 95% efficiency.
I'd put them in an insulated air tight box something that would hold in the warmth and not lose it.
@@herbertwerner2287, I do not trust or want to risk an insulated box being able to keep the temp above freezing. I have a remote hunting cabin where I attached a solar Panel to charge a bank of 8 LiFepo4 batteries that I put in a 50 gallon plastic barrel that I dug into the ground. This works great as the ground is above freezing because of the insulation we put down. I have a breathing tube and access panel as well.
@@Aaron_Peters Oh I see Aaron, ya I didn't know you where doing that I thought you were asking for an idea of how. I like your idea, I had thought of that myself and then forgot about it. Plus I would just think that might be all around safer to have them where if anything were to go wrong with them they would be in safer place.
You must've had a dream about this video, looks like as soon as you woke up....you ran to the camera! LOL, love your stuff, Will.
I agree about the cost but the LTO w/6cells (if you have the money) should do fine in a nominal 12v solar application so long as your battery capacity is well matched to your solar array. Even solar modules made for charging 12v circuits typically have an Vmp of about 18v and there are programmable charge controllers that can configured to operate in the optimal range.
That said, the loads would need to be checked for higher voltage tolerance or use a high efficiency dc to dc converter.
Puts out video just as I'm looking at these, hmm the fast charging is what interested me and the temp range..
Great update. Always learn something from you Will.
Thanks buddy 😁👍
Can you get your hands on some alternate technologies like zinc bromide flow batteries and test them? I know Redflow out of Australia makes a good zinc bromide flow battery.
True science doesn't care about appeareance, it cares about accuracy. Thanks Will!
Yet another reason Will is my go to channel for any solar questions I have. I've been watching him back when he was living in RVs! Way to go Will!
Love your sincerity and honesty and your knowledge never ceases to amaze me. Keep producing these videos.
LTO is most used lithium type in car audio at the moment. Works very well for that application and majority of cars can handle 15-16V charging voltage. No one uses BMS but I've seen some using balancers. I don't have any because after half a year of use the voltage difference between cells was only 0.01V, I had the cells in paraller for 24 hours before assembly
Can you use a buck converter with a 24 volt system or even a 48 volt for 12 volt RV system????
Yes, that is exactly what I do in mine for anything not running directly on 24v. Also buck down to 19v for a computer monitor and charging a laptop. And down to 5v for usb charging.
I think they're great for telecommunication towers.
We use 24v DC systems. This would help with the long term cost of keeping a highsite running with backup power.
Would also combat the theft problem due to their weight.
How do you overcome 21v voltage cutoff also some boost converter?
@@Coladudetje yes. Buck/Boost circuit.
There's quite a few options for the Telco industry now. Can customise every aspect of the system and manage everything remotely.
Thanks. This video clarifies everything with respect to the differences between LTO & LiFePO4. Both have their advantages and places. You can puncture or freeze an LTO but LiFePO4 is perfect for me in a warm climate.
Congrats on redoing this, admitting the errors in your earlier videos, and just being you. :)
Yes, these have negatives as compared to LiFePO4, but they are a valid option with some positives when using A Grade cells. (The biggest issue I see is for people wanting to use only a 12V system, but most home setups will be either 24V or 48V.)
Will, Most of your viewers know your are 100% genuine and honest. Viewers that think your a shill are completely off there rocker, or maybe there meds. Well done.
I like how you put people in their place with facts.
Thanks for the info. I just bought my first 16 cells of lithium iron phosphate. Thanks for the quality content.
Be careful. They are addictive.
Nice to see som usefull stuff again, not only your car, your house, your cats or your other stuff.
Keep it up man, your still my nr1 youtuber 👊👊👊
I love my 100 Ah LiFePO4 DIY battery I built after watching Will's videos. I used Sinopoly cells, a Daly BMS and a water tight plastic amo case. It works great in my sailboat to power my 12 volt systems and 40# thrust trolling motor. I charge the battery with Renogy 100W suitcase panels. I just bought another, so 200W next summer. :) Thank you, Will, for showing me the way!
When the cost comes down, I am really attracted to the idea of getting 55 years (before they get to 80%) out of them in a solar application. That makes potentially a several hundred year use case...
I bet in a low temperature environment the calendar life will be extended.
I have a LG 6s BMW LTO as a 12volt car battery! Here in Illinois it comes in handy, due the winter months!
Seen too many guys lead acid battery freeze during winter!
Smart idea
Bro, I love your channel. I have learned so much. Thank you for all that you have taught me. It has made a huge difference in my family’s lives.
Thank you Will, you just proved why the Elechive by Zero Breeze has a 35v min voltage for solar charging. They even made their 100w panels to act like a 24v panel ("Our 100w panel is customized with the output of 35V."). Just what we don't need. I canceled my order when they started flip-flopping between 400w solar and 800w solar charging.
Still. I look forward to your review, as they said they were sending you one.
No one is perfect Will. But you are damn close to perfect. Lol. You have no idea how many old ladies watch your videos. Seriously. Out of the 55+ year old women that are nomadic about 75% know of you and equally love you and are so proud of you. Brings tears to my eyes. Seriously. You are every mom and grandmas dream child. Just know you are loved by many. Thank you for being you.
Sounds like a prefect fit for a boost/buck converter if wanting to use it for 12v applications
you could set it up as a 24 or 48 volt system then use a 12 reducer to get what you need if you need 12v
You deserve lots of credit for making this video and explaining how nd why you made a mistake. Most people's ego would not even think of believing they could be wrong or admit they where incorrect.
My system is a 48v hybrid off-grid system. I put together two 48v 200Ah Lifepo4 and hook the two in parallel to get 400Ah. Almost always when supplying load to till it cut off point. 1. How come the other 48v tray does not drain to its lowest cut off voilts? And when the system charges back up.
2. Does it suppose to charge one tray at a time?
I all so heard you have mention in one of your clip saying that battery do not like to be parrarel .
3. LIke to know why and how to make it like one another so it can supply load equally?
THanx for information. keep up the good work.
This is great, I ended up ordering a 12volt set to test out what you said before because I disagreed, also I intended on using them in a stationary set up. I just moved from your part of the world to an off grid farm I wanted these to run some heavy equipment in the barn, I’ll let you know how it goes. Thanks for the update!
How did it work out for you?
Good job Will. Everything has it's place, and LTO's could make for a better solar system if you really need them AND if you can afford the technology. If you can't use something because you can't pay for it, then it doesn't matter what it can do for you.
Much respect for correcting a previous video.
if there is one thing us human All have alike is we all have made done said mistakes. now as for people who can catch correct and be willing to admit those mistakes well those are the rare and exceptional folks like yourself sir keep up the good work.
Will, curious if you have decoded this Winnebago Volta electrical system ""Pure3 Advanced Energy System uses safe, dependable automotive-grade technology to provide up to 9,600 watt-hours of power (12,800 with optional 4-module energy pack) for extended off grid stays (59GL, 59KL)."" 9,600 watt-hours would be 8 Battle Born batteries , correct ? The battery modules don't appear to be big enough for 200 Ah batteries.
I do like the video Will well done. Thanks for the test results as it directly relates to my LTO batteries. I see you point about lithium phosphate batteries. They are the best and I agree with that. For me it is the cycle life that grabs me and the low temperature charging. As you mentioned in the future other types, maybe solid state, and yeah changes will come as time passes by, and so will the batteries I will use. Enjoyed the live stream chat last night. And thanks for addressing LTO batteries and the issues you talked about. Great stuff !!
I use a 80 amp mppt a 5000w inverter two 12v 200Ah batteries powered by 3x 250w solar panels later six total. where and what size fuse and where should I place it?
Also later I would like to add three 100 war panels how would I wire them to my six first panels
Hey, your hair looks great.....that is the style these days and women love it. And if they don't who cares. Good videos bro.
These really shine in remote outdoor solar applications like radio repeaters, mesh nodes, and weather stations where you will encounter sub-freezing and possibly very hot temperatures. I wish you could find deals in a smaller form factor that 60138, 60160, 66160 as these are overkill for LoRa mesh nodes (and you have to do 2S for most of these applications). I am experimenting with Li-ion and LiFePO4 burial beneath the frost line for LoRa in Arizona where we get both high and low extremes.
I have a very specific use case for LTO - IoT equipment in remote locations. I like the fact that LTO cells will charge without issue in very cold weather and the long life cycle offers much reduced maintenance. My question relates to charging. It looks like LTO batteries in 1S configuration will work well with a constant voltage charger with a specific cut off voltage of around 2.8V and no trickle charge. If so one of the adjustable SLA battery charger modules will do the job just fine. I do not need large capacity - 10 Ah will be fine maybe 20 Ah depending on operational factors. The voltage will need to be boosted to around 4V. Am I on the right path:
Integrity is very RARE here on UA-cam. Very refreshing Will!
Ok will I'm putting together a stationary solar generator w li fe p, in conjunction with a bank of super caps, so the heart would be lithium iron phosphate,but the caps would be their to help with heavy starting loads, like an oxygen machine, or a blower fan for the swamp cooler. What r ur thoughts on that.????
That system would be too complicated, not to mention all the trouble one has to go through to get the authentic batteries! Thanx for your honest input, like you I’ll stick to lipo 4 until the technology gets better! 👍
I want a good set up for my full time. Living RV off grid, looking at purpose built rack batteries, my question is, waht volagae is best 12, 24,48 and wahst the max KW system, need to run lights, computers, kettel, starlink fridge microwave etc
I have looked at 5 kw systems, but can I really accommodate enough panels to charge such a unit and advice would be great
I am looking to replace the lead acid batteries in my class 8 Commercial trucks. They operate 4 12v batteries in temperatures between -45° ~ +150° F. I currently have to replace them 1 to 2 times a year. They draw around 900 Cranking Amps. And cost around $400.00 to replace (about $100 each). Any ideas or information would be greatly appreciated.
In so many places where I'd use solar, I'd use lithium titanate for its cold tolerance.
Same story here in Australia with our heat !
Wish you would find a 12 volt 100ah lithium titanate battery for campers that charge in cold weather. Which is most useful for year round use.
Can you explain the different grades of LiFePO4 Battery's, had someone try telling me there isn't grades on them. Thanks and a very nice video.
Can you recommend and demostrarte a BMS for a 24 cell 2.3 volt yinglong 48 volt battery bank please?
I want some of these for my heater in my trailer
Do you remember what brand the cells that wasn't yinlong or toshiba were?
Hi, I Live in a constant winter cold, freezing, and dark environment and use the off-grid small solar system for lights. I must buy or make a 12v winter battery, so it can charge fast in sub-zero temperatures and it can also work in a minus -10C to -20C. What is the best solution LTO perhaps? Thanks.a lot Alex
Hi Will. I enjoy your videos. I have a MS in Physics and pretty much understand everything you are posting. However, I have a specific application question. I have a 4WD golf cart. Currently uses 8 each 6 Volt 200 A-h batteries. I would like to replace those with lithium of some type. The buggy uses 2 each 18HP or 13.5kW electric motors. The motor controller is a 600 amp. So, it pulls a lot of peak current. I think it drops back to 100 to 200 amps just rolling along. I can buy 12V 100 A-h LiFePO4 batteries for about $150 each. A 4S4P setup would be $1200. However, I need at least 200 Amp Continuous discharge and 600 Amp peak. The LiFePO4 batteries fall just a little short of this. To replace the Pb Acid batteries costs about $1200 as well. I have also looked at LiTi or LTO and 22 each 40 A-h cells look attractive at a comparable price. However, in both cases the BMS limits the discharge. I am seriously thinking of using 20 or 22 cells of LTO without a BMS. What do you think??
The question is, how much will the price drop, compared to other chemistry over the next couple of years
Luckily you did a little ;-) That wouldn't have kept me away from going to use LTO on my scooters to transport the necessary energy. Thanks for giving the basics. And my trials will let me see how good LTO will be performing in real day-to-day use.
Thanks for your honesty and a simple mistake is expected from us all. Great job with what you do and thanks for the information as it is very important to us DIY people. Looking forward to your future videos and ideas!
How cold can lithium titanate be charged? How cold can lipo be charged? And if you do a video comparing might as well throw lead acid in there too.
I love your content.
Please see if Toshiba will send you a set of their new ones supposedly charge faster remaining cooler and considerably more energy dense
Hello will how are you doing can i get some help in ordering the right amount of these cells to make a car audio battery
I was hoping for a safe battery for the sailboat but it appears solar charging is an issue.
@Will I live in Minnesota and want to have a system in a cold storage environment. I was thinking these would be great for that since the temps will get below -20F regularly. I’m willing to spend the money, but want to make sure that I’m spending it wisely. What are your thoughts?
You can set custom settings in BMS for balancing.
Ahhhh thanks for clearing up that conundrum - Your earlier superstition that Titanate for super long life, fast charging with a downside of high cost, weight and bulk is still valid - I've concluded that Lifepo4 in 4S is best for my motorcycle starter & RV house battery because they are most comparable with the alternator outputs (14.2V) - and li-ion for my ebike because of power density and compact size - its a horses for courses approach - as you said in your earlier post Titanate would be best for a remote station were servicing was infrequent and where temperatures might be sub zero - it could well be "Rocket Science" at least in application : )
Will, what's your opinion: Say ya want to maximise the available energy and choosing between 11S and 12S. 12 S will have about 8% more energy from the extra cell. But ya have to limit total voltage to 30 volts for use with typical 24 volt equipment. So the cell voltage is 2.5v max. The lost energy not going to 2.6v is roughlyabout 4% I estimate from 2C curves. So I conclude for energy storage its 4% better to use 12S limited to 30v than 11S. If the BMS balancer threshold can't be adjusted accordingly, then use an active balancer. Perhaps there is an energy boost from the higher average operational voltage of 12S too. Your thoughts?
So i guess the only limitation is getting a 13.8v charger and bms. Can we simply use an arduino to monitor the voltage and cut it off?
Can I build a power wall array for my house,will those be efficient ?
Are these ideal for e-bike battery?
Hi !
I saw in one of your videos that you test several types of accumulators and cells. How many amperes can it be loaded with? There was LTO in the experiment. Your tester showed 500 amps. I'm looking for this video. Can you help me ?
Thank you very much in advance.
A now I know why the prices were all over the place. Different grades. If they're going to sell 2nds or worse they should be labeled as such. Thank you Will
Hello cant i charge my LTO bank 40ah with my car altinaitor 14v 100ah
what's is the cost of 6 volt 30 amp lifpo or lithium titanium battery
...but did you update the old video?
Nice video. It was great to see you get results consistent with others. Obviously, charge rate and having grade A batteries will make a huge difference in results. The large dynamic range of this chemistry is interesting to me. Finding the right application might be a home run for this type of battery. Thanks for all the effort you put into your videos. It's greatly appreciated.
Cant help but feel this dudes passion ! He is just rocking!! Wow
Good video! Just keep doing what you are doing. The more successful you get the more there's people with differing opinions. All you can do is go off the best information you have at any given time. I hope the comments don't ware you down or change you. Stay positive, you do great work!
Can lithium lifepo4 and lithium titanate be charged together?
Hey Will, question for you why not use a boost buck (dc-dc) converter so the voltage issue is a mood point?
Thank you very much sir.Sir I would like to make a battery bank 24 v for solar inverter.please give which cells I have to buy for solar power application.Iam having 2 nos C 10 tubular lead acid batteries currently
Don’t lipo batteries have a greater fire potential?
Are you going to do another Lithium Titanate battery video?
Hi Will, I want to build a LTO 24v pack for my Boat, because LTO is so much less of a fire hazard. Do you know if there are any good waterproof BMS for 12S or 6s setups? I think Daly make one but I cannot find it for sale anywhere.
I wonder about the new sodium ion batteries how their voltage last. And sodium may be cheaper long run.
Y lose 15% on discharge or for charge too? So for solar system lose 30% of all energy?
What is the effect of altitude (5000ft and above) and great temperature ranges (yes, I am talking about CO) on different battery chemistries and solar panels. Lots of sunshine, but low angles to high angles (no jokes, please)? Also, going rving means changes in altitudes and temperature ranges.
Will, in a 48 battery bank made up of multiple 12v batteries can you use and supply 12v to one or some of the batteries. I want to fit three or four 12v 500W wind turbines to each end gable of my house, and connect each one to one of the 12v batters in the bank. Would this work?
I want to get LTO batteries for their much longer life cycle and better handling in colder temperatures. Would my solar LION/LIPO charge LTO batteries?
Isnt only using 78/80% of the range, somewhat equivalent to never discharging below 20%, a setting I will probably use in my BMS anyhow?