I had the '85 and '86 GT. Yes, the styling is what drew me in. I picked up the '86 GT in March of 1996 as a lovingly used vehicle and kept it for several years. My nephew bought the '86 from me and restored it to its original black over silver glory as seen in this video. The little car had potential I believe.
@Donald Trump is Ghetto Trash Very much so. Pristine examples generate interest to this day. I _almost_ went down memory lane two years ago on an '88 red GT. A lady where I worked in 1988 bought a white GT with the T-tops and it really suited her style at the time. I have a clear memory of that lady and her Fiero for some reason.
@@boomerisadog3899 Both my sons learned to drive on the family 57 Pontiac two door hardtop and I've owned one or more Pontiacs since 1960. Even my 58 GMC 3/4 ton pick up has a 60 Pontiac 389 bored .060 to make it a 401. I've owned one or more Fieros since 1989 and currently drive an 88 GT and have an 86 that has been parked for five years. Also, my boat has a Pontiac 400 in it. Anything else? Oh, yeah....have a spare 389 engine sitting around. For $100, it could be yours, as I'm cleaning out.
@@boomerisadog3899 my first car was a 2001 GTP. I loved it. The motor was strong, but everything else fell apart lol. My ABS/trac off lights never went out, the AC stopped working, my sunroof stopped working and the body cladding fell off... But it would haul ass once that supercharger started whining. I loved that car
@@rogervalkriye4133 I had a 98 that was kinda like that. The 02 never had a problem until 1 of the aftermarket injectors went bad at only 84k. I was running a 3.2 supercharger pulley (stock is 3.8) and making around 15lbs so it disintegrated a piston. I was so heartbroken, I had a lot in that car. It was the last time I built my daily too, lol.
Cool review. An 88 Grand Am was my first car. Always wished it had the quad 4 or the turbo motor because it had the 2.5 iron duke. Still the best air conditioning of any car I’ve owned.
Mine was an 89. I was so worried about that car falling apart that I was scared to run the air conditioning. So I kept rolling down the window, until that regulator broke. I'd run the heat in the summer because my mom made me worried it was going to fail at any moment. The car, looking back was just fine. Lol I had a bad ground so if I wanted that Tech 4 to sound like a WWI plane I'd turn it to AM on the radio and crank up the stereo. Engineers work hard at making fake engine noises these days, mine was engineered by corrosion. LOL
Could be nostalgia for me but I remember loving my mom’s Fiero GT as a kid. She had the same car, year and everything, but with the spoiler. She used to pit a pillow in the passenger seat so I could see out. Then a year later dad picked up an 87 Grand National. Its still sitting out in the garage to this day. 😎
Nobody realizes what he's referencing? Henry Ford was famous for saying "You can have a model T in any color you want, as long as it's black". That's what he's referencing 😭
@@rogervalkriye4133 yeah I remember reading about that. I just think this is funny cause you can hear a little disappointment in the way he says it is only available with the 3 speed auto.
The base Grand Am could be had with a bulletproof Isuzu 5 speed manual transaxle. The base 2.5 liter 4 cylinder was also bulletproof. I had one many years ago. The car was reliable and pretty much indestructible. It was killed by rust and neglect.
Three speeds are such crap transmissions. All the way into the 90s they were in cars. I bitch about Hyundai 4 speed auto in my 2006 Sonata. No overdrive makes a big difference. I can't imagine no fourth gear.. that's on a car
Nolan McKinney I agree when I look at cars today, they are often just lumpy with this plastic cladding. Nobody knows why sedans even exist anymore. I personally don’t know.
pbfloyd13: Yeah, his eyes probably bugged out of his head for sure! The reason it did a 180° spin like that is solely because the driver lifted off the throttle. Any mid-engined car will do that, Porsche's & other mid-engined cars will do exactly the same thing. With a mid-engine car, you never lift off the throttle during any quick evasive manuver or in high speed road cornering. Pontiac & other manufacturers of mid-engined cars all did very poor jobs of telling people who bought them they behaved differently than front engined vehicles, that's the # 1 reason so many get wrecked. I've owned a 1987 Fiero GT for almost 10 years & have lowered the car 2" all around, installed 215 tires up front & 235's in the rear on the factory crosslace wheels, stiffened up the shocks & struts, replaced all the rubber suspension pieces with polyurethane components & now it can be pushed extremely hard thru the corners without any fear at all. The Fiero is a great car & tons of fun!
@@jaking2 : I do all the work on my Fiero. The Eibach 2" lowering spring kit was under $300, There are many shock/ strut choices available but I went with KYB units which were around $200 for all 4 but will be putting on QA1 parts soon & all the bushings (control arms, sway bars, engine & trans mounts & other links) were around $250 if I remember right & I had to get them from several different companies because I couldn't find anyone at the time selling a complete kit. Nowadays a complete kit may be available. Right now I'm running Falkin Ziex tires. I've replaced the entire cooling system that includes a 3 core aluminum radiator. I've also replaced the entire brake system with o.e.m. parts but I'm now saving to buy a 12" big brake kit that uses C4 corvette components along with 18" wheels & tires & am also planning a LS4/ 4T65 swap over the winter with upgrades to around 650hp sometime later this year. Probably the most expensive part I've bought so far was a complete stainless steel exhaust system. It hurt my wallet a little as it was $1,200 but it was well worth it. My Fiero is the best handling car I've ever owned! It rides & handles like a formula one car & once my big brakes & engine swap are done...I'm gonna start hunting Ferrari's & Lamborghini's and show them the Fiero's taillights! I bet they'll be pretty pissed off when my little american car that many people ridicule as a parts bin car & firehazzard blows past their $200,000 ride on the highway!
@@rogergoodman8665I worked with a guy who’s brother was killed cause he lifted off going around a cloverleaf in an AW11 MR2 and rolled. Sad fate. Can see why there’s no cheap mid-engine cars anymore
I love Pontiac Grand Am 1986 and 1985, 1987 and 1988, my favorite. I love also Pontiac Fiero GT 85, 86, 87, Fiero 2M4 85, 86 and 88 and Fiero Formula 88. Pontiacs 1980s is my favorites cars
Ditto 94 was my first car also a Grand Am SE had great memories inside it. Besides all the issues mechanically it was my first. I remember the ECM was always an on going issue
Those Grand Am's were popular with mid-20's gals on the go at that time..working, parties, dating dudes. My aunt and a few of her friends had Grand Am's and they were definitely hurtin' for a squirtin'! RIP Aunt Heather
Faux Craig Singhouse you know what...you are right. I was a kid in the 80s and these were mostly all women owned . One of my best friends at the time his single mom drove......guess what....a Grand Am.
Faux Craig Singhouse Lol so true. My Dad bought a brand new 92’ GT then he was at the light and saw most every GA had a young girl behind the wheel so he traded it for a 89’ Corvette
Doesn’t matter what retro vehicle you show, love them all, even more than the reviews of new cars, the retro reviews have that old school style and charm! Love it!
My uncle owned a 1986 Pontiac Fiero SE V6 back in the late 90's in Bahrain. He used to be a car enthusiast and big fan of the Trans Am and Corvette. The Fiero is currently sitting inside my grandpa's house garage waiting to be either be restored or thrown in the junk yard. RIP Pontiac
I have owned and driven Pontiacs since 1960 and currently drive an 88 Fiero GT with V6 and five speed I bought six years ago with 21K on it. It was originally bought by the Pontiac dealer in Mankato MN, where he displayed it for seven years on the showroom floor, then took it as his personal car, moved it to Florida and drove it there when he was on vacation. It now has 42K on it.
Fortunately that hockey stick speedometer was replaced in 1987 when a new gauge cluster which included a conventional Speedometer (Which now stopped at 120 on the SE models) along with a Tachometer and full gauge instrumentation was still offered (Turbocharged models which were also new for 1987 had a boost gauge instead of the voltmeter gauge)
I've owned two Corvettes, a BMW 4-series, a '05 GTO, some Caddy's, a Camaro, a Mustang, a Monte Carlo SS convertible and much more - and the most FUN to drive car I've ever owned was a 1985 Fiero GT. The thing is/was a go-kart and was just amazing to throw around. The prior owner did lower the Fiero and stiffen the suspension - and removed the pesky emissions garbage and just had straight pipes to baffles, so it was slightly modified, but in any case it was nothing like what they showed here - the thing stuck to the ground like a vacuum and you couldn't make it break loose, like in this video, no matter what you did. Strange there was such a difference.
lesdmark well yeah, that’s why I brought it up - but it was only lightly modified. But every other Fiero owner I’ve ever talked to has said how good the thing has handled as well. I really wonder if they had some bum tires here or something - I mean I could literally do 60mph and yank the wheel hard and the car wouldn’t spin (and I know since I did it many times trying to beat turns at redlights since the car overheated in traffic)
Love my 87 GT. What a blast carving up slalom canyon roads! Yeah, not sure how a guy that test drives car for a living spun it out like that, unless deliberately. And it's funny how they bash it's handling here, but raved about the 84 being like a slot car! LOL, considering the GT had way better handling than the 84 base. Just goes to show how "accurate" their reviews are, or where.
@@mrski4945 I don't think they'd bash the Fiero for some sort of agenda, but maybe they got a beat up press car with garbage tires or something. I do know, personally, from the C5 Vette that I owned, a bad set of tires can completely ruin the way a car drives. For my Vette, it had the factory runflats, which had plenty of tread, were only 3-years old at the most, still looked nearly new, and the car handled well, but not as well as you'd think, and in the rain slip and slided all over the place. I replaced them with some good tires, and it was like getting a new car, now the dry traction was insane while the wet traction was fantastic and the car no longer constantly broke lose, you could drive the car hard in the rain. Whenever I watch these videos I think of that experience that I had - since I though it was the car since the tires looked to be in great shape, they had just hardened up or were a bad set to begin with. For the Fiero, I've know a couple of others that owned them as well, and everyone raved about how you could throw them around and do pretty much anything in them.
@@rodmunch69 Well, I don’t think that they, as you said, bash the Fiero for any agenda, or deliberately. And you raise a very good point about it being a press car. I didn’t even think of that, so thank you for your insight. And you are 100% correct about the tires. I have had the same type of experience you described with your C4. I own a 87 Fiero GT to this day, which came with Goodyear Eagle GTs from the factory, once they wore out (had nothing to do with spirited driving in the canyons, honest… I promise). I upgraded to BF Goodrich T/As, but the ZR rated which was a definite step up from the Eagles. The difference in the canyons was night and day, so yes, totally agree. Guess my frustration with their review is, first they rave about the 1984, which was a base model, 2 years later they test the GT and criticize it. And they criticize some of the exact same things 2 years prior they raved about like the manual rack and pinion steering. But it’s out of my control, and like you said, I also know a bunch of other Fiero owners, and everyone loves throwing them into corners. Thank you for your reply! Cheers!!
I'd love to see Pontiac come back this is why it won't. #1 - GM only cares about Buick and the market in China #2 - Everybody wants SUVs and the market is already oversaturated #3 - Most people would rather buy an import vehicle than anything from GM. #4 - GM will most likely botch the relaunch #5 Dodge pretty much filled in the void left by Pontiac which isn't any better. #6 - As much as I would love to see a GM built Firebird & Trans Am they don't want anything that'll outsell or outperform the Corvette and I'm not including the Camaro.
GM says no because somebody thought they needed TWO"little old lady" brands. I'm looking at YOU, Buick and Cadillac. GM is more of a marketing company than an auto manufacturer.
Had new 1986 Pontiac Grand Am. I don't recall a lot about it. It was a 4 cylinder engine. Nothing over the top. I remember looking at the Oldsmobile Calais and went with Pontiac. Lot of cars since than. One other in 1998. Bonneville SE. It to was nothing over the top. Thank you
I had a 1986 Grand Am too, it had the Iron Duke 2.5 "tech IV" which was all of like 90 HP it was not very fast, at all it also sounded very odd at an idle as well. My aunt had a calais and it had the Quad 4, which was quick and also quick to blow the head gasket.
Donald Trump is Ghetto Trash To each his own. I’ve always seen the 87-91s as badge-engineered LeSabres, while the 1992-99 was an Olds LSS with more plastic cladding. The 2000-05 was badly overstyled and had an absurdly plasticky interior. There are reasons why, to my mind, it never once outsold its Buick and Olds platform mates from 87-05, despite being less expensive.
@@judethaddaeus9742 I disagree with you about the 00-05 Bonneville, I personally thought the car was gorgeous and a much cleaner design than the water tredding plastic cladding of the 92-99. I really liked the sharp curves, crevasses, and lines. The SSEI and the 04-05 GXP were the best looking models to me.
Same here. Who knows if the performance division of GM designers would come with next if it was allowed to continue. Miss the firebird that car itself should've not been taken out production! I currently own a 1997 'bird.
@@Bozar069 All form, no function. It seems the 80s nostalgia may have clouded the fact that most of many of these cars suffered from quality control issues.
@@chriscornelius2518 It was a great car to drive, though I had the occasional "Oh Shit" moment of pushing it past its limits. The main area mine was lacking in was it had the 3 speed automatic. I was doing alot of highway driving when I had it and really missed overdrive.
@Donald Trump is Ghetto Trash mine didnt have the glove box flap. It was an early one so maybe I missed out. Those Sunbirds were not that bad. I had an 89 and while it was slow it was reliable.
Chris Cornelius Maybe you weren’t alive back then or driving cars but the 80s were a vast improvement over the 70s in quality. It’s easy to look back 30 plus years and criticize but if you didn’t live it you don’t understand
The quad 4 introduced in the late 80s left that 3.0 in the dust. The last generation Grand AM GT V6 in the mid 90s was a far better car IMO. (We owned one from each era)
@@joekempton7319 I can agree with you on that part as far as that Engine Choice goes. Don"t get me wrong, the quad 4 was an alright Engine, but it was to me still a 4 cylinder and Problems came after that. But as far as a better longer lasting Engine, The first generation V6 engine despite that "Puny" 125 horsepower, , The "86" Engine was a very low Maintenance one and had a much better gas mileage than the ones it Replaced in the late 80's and 90's throughout. Respectively. I Purchased my first grand am in 1986 blue in color With the same package and had it till 1997 with Little to no Problems with it.
Not sure about that. It's the first generation after the X body. Switching to N-body platform definitely improved handling, but better was still to come. The last generation could do that 0-60 in mid 7s as its V6 had the best factory tune. (Nothing amazing now, but GDI wasn't quite a thing around '99 on NA engines.) But the generation before last (or was it 2nd to last?) was the fastest if you managed to get the H.O. Quad4. Although not significantly more powerful than the following generation, it was lighter and that made it quicker.
@@pauljs75 Every Generation Of Engines Weather If It Was The 3.0. The 3.1. The Quad 4 & So Fourth Had To Be Tweaked For Better Performance & Better Fuel Economy For The Years Ahead. But As For My "86" Grand Am. I Loved It From Beginning To The Very End When I Traded In 11 Years Later, It Still Had A Better Resale Value Than The Newer Grand Am's It Replaces. All The Engines Were Reliable Mind You. But For The Money Without The Performance, The First Generation 3.0 Were The Most Valuable Leaders. In My Opinion.
Wow this brings back fond memories of my Pontiac days! I used to own a two door regular Grand Am with the "Iron Duke" 4 cylinder but a few yrs later graduated to the Grand Am SE 2 door white like this model! Wow not fast by any means today but back then it wasn't bad! I loved that car & especially the red backlit dash,it was called the poor man's BMW back then! Then I graduated to the Pontiac Grand Prix McLaren turbo edition in red with gold cross laced wheels! Wish I still had it today man! But I still have the seats from the turbo Grand Prix after all these years!! Wanting to sell or turn into custom theater seats maybe??
That has more to do with being mid engine than being GM. Let off the gas and the rear wheels get unloaded due to weight transfer allowing the heavy rear end to swing around.
The sad thing is that the Chevette front end was upgraded in 88 and they adjusted the X body subframe in the rear too. Then they stopped production. Way to go GM beancounters
@@DrewLSsix are u stupid. It was a performance upgrade done by SLP engineering. But had to be ordered through the Pontiac Dealerships and was sold by the dealers. And the car was a fuckin Firebird Formula.
@@maximusareilius2262 Not far fetched, since the Fiero Mera (the one with the Ferrari 308 style body kit, but the same 2.8L V6 as the regular GT model) was a low production model that also had to be ordered through and sold only via Pontiac Dealerships. Still surprised that Pontiac attempted that, but so did the producers of Miami Vice when they used a modified 80's Corvette with a Ferrari Daytona Spyder body kit for the TV show...lol
Those were the days of Pontiac. My first car was a 1987 Grand Am LE mid-grade and it had the old Iron Duke 2.5 L four cylinder with 98 horsepower. It was two-tone white and silver and interior what's so sporty inside. My dad owned it when he first drove it off the showroom floor at the Pontiac dealership in 87 and he passed it on to me in year 2000. it had two engine replacements and two transmission replace throughout the years but poor on the brakes, that was the major problems. But I miss my old Grand Am it was my first car that I fixed up when I was 18 years of age.
Thanks for sharing. My first car was a 91 olds Calais 5 spd with the HO quad4. My Dad gave mine to me too. My biggest complaint was the fuel tank not having baffles. If you turned too quick with a 1/4 tank it would starve for fuel. Sold mine around 2010. Lots of good memories of racing that car around.
We had a 90 Calais from Granny. Got it with 14K miles in 1996. Horrible brakes. Could never figure out the problem until I replaced the front calipers years later. Then it stopped on a dime. Pads always wore evenly, no symptoms of bad calipers until they actually wore out and seized up. I think it was just a poor design back in the day. But then I had an 87 cavalier and its brakes were great, with the same type of caliper. Weird.
@@AmandaHugenkiss2915 interesting. Never had a problem with my front brakes but the rear drums would lock up sometimes. Usually when it was snowing so that was fun. Lol. It would take a few stops to clear up.
I would like to see a retro review of the '88 Fiero. GM finally got it right that year then they killed it. They should have put the Super Charged 3.8 in the Fiero.
The 3.1 liter turbo V6 from the 1990 Grand Prix STE would have been a great engine for the Fiero GT. 205hp would have been nice to have. Even a manual version would have worked for some people. I would have gotten the automatic myself.
More GM footage! Thank you for this. I appreciate all the GM footage you find and share. I am always surprised at what is brought to You Tube. Please keep it coming. John Davis was right about GM and Pontiac. The days of Pontiac Excitement! I was glad when better engines came later. If Pontiac had lived I bet this car would be rear drive today. The Fiero could have used a 3800 V6 too.
@@briq4 The FUBAR parts bin suspension the Fiero was saddled with for all but the LAST YEAR is what gave it less than spectacular handling. GM did their usual on the Fiero. #1 Take a good concept from one of the divisions. #2 Committee the concept to death for years, #3 Finally give the green light to the division, with the provision that the car must be done on the half assed cheap, i.e. "Parts Bin Special" or make it special with decals. #4 For whatever reason don't allow the car to be optioned out in any way that the buying public would really like it. The car MUST be option packaged and engine options and transmissions MUST be under powered and boring..... Or unreliable. #5 After the Motor Press and public bitch about the car long enough GM will sink a cubic ton of money in the car to "fix" the issues that GM created in the first place. #6 The damage is done; word of mouth is the car is unreliable/unsafe/under powered/boring...... #7 Cancel the car. Bitch that the American public unfairly doesn't give the Big Three(GM) a chance and the American buyer just doesn't know a good car. Also, make incredibly dumb car and truck commercials that Mahk rips apart. This is the legacy of Roger Smith and his minions.
I use to hate when certain people that don't know about cars say about the Pontiac Fiero GT, "Look at that Ferrari" That gets me so mad even when they say that about the Toyota MR2 2nd gen and the Nissan 300ZX in the 90s
Eric Britton I went to high school with a guy who bought a shiny nearly new Cavalier when the rest of us were trying to buy rust bucket F bodies because we thought they were bad ass. This guy said “dudes, half the girls I take out think this thing is a Ferrari or at least something fast. They don’t care, but they like it. Sure your SS can smoke me, but it has a hole in the door, no heater and girls don’t want to sit in the stained seat of your barn find.” Guy turned out to be a prick, but he was right.
I used to love Pontiac cars. As a kid my parents had an 85 grand am se, a 6000 le, and a 91 Grand Prix se which I eventually drove. It’s a shame GM discontinued the Pontiac line.
Its amazing how many crap-box small cars like the Grand Am GM used to be able to move back in the day, compared to how many they've sold in the last 2-3 years before they decided not to sell small cars at all.
My first car - the 86 Grand Am SE. Blue everything - wheels, spoiler, interior. I was 18 and I LOVED that car!! Wish I had a photo of mine or one identical.
I drove an 88 Fiero Formula with a 5-speed. It was slow as hell in straight line acceleration but it was wicked in the turns. I could blast through 90° turns in my subdivision at 30 without flinching. Guess it’s a good thing I never let up on the gas!
For an everyday car back in the 80s, a 0-60 of less than 10 seconds was considered quick. Keep in mind that the 120 bhp V6 Grand Am reviewed in this video had better acceleration than most of its rivals. The performance of the N-bodies improved significantly when GM's 150 bhp 2.3 L 16 valve Quad Four was introduced in 1988, where the 0-60 was 8.5 seconds.
The thing that would separate them, is power delivery. That Grand Am make a little bit of torque down low. So it had the sensation that you "got going" okay, with some initial thrust. But power tapers off quickly as speed/revs build. Contrast to slow cars today, Toyota Prius C, Yaris, etc, those cars basically make no power anywhere. Just a linear power delivery that makes them feel slower than the actual 0-60, where the Grand Am might feel quicker than it actually is.
@@95mushroom My wife owned a 09 Yaris. 10-second 0-60 Accelleration and performance was largely identical to a 78 Honda I had in high school. The Honda was a little more fun to drive without power steering though (didn't need it really) Steering was a bit numb in the Yaris by comparison
@@vossler360 The rare one to find is the GT with the H.O. Quad 4 and 5-speed manual LSD Getrag performance package. 180HP and 0-60 around 7.2 seconds or so. Those were quick compared to the cars of that era, but the regular Quad 4 was a lot more common and still not too pokey. For all the punch that was possible it's a shame those Quad 4's don't have much long term reliability. Finding one in good condition now has got to be rarer than a barn find of a car that is worth some decent money.
Had an 87 grand am. Ran great and ran even better after a 3.8L was installed. The 3.0L was a short stroke 3.8 without a balance shaft. felt like it was miss firing at idle sometimes.
Idle on mine felt okay, but the engine had a visual shake that looked like misfire, which is pretty funny. Just off idle you could feel the shake but then disappeared soon after, so you never really drove it in the shake range. I was getting a tire rotation once, and the girl working the front counter at the tire shop said "normal cars don't run that way" and I said "I guess you haven't been around any 90 degree GM V6s."
It was missing two cylinders. Started life as a BUICK V-8. BUICK cut off two cylinders, to make a V-6. BUICK could build the V-6 on the same Assembly line as the Buick V-8. BUICK saved 100s of millions of dollars, using the same engine plant and equipment as the Buick V-8. Also, BUICK had a V-6 engine in just 6 months. If they had to develop a NEW, 60° V-6, it would have taken years & 100s millions of dollars. It was a quick fix.
A lot of these 1985 to 1991 Grand Am’s came with the clatter of 2.5 L iron duke engine noise under the hood. The quad four was optional, and the V-6 was rare for most buyers.
Pontiac used a split grille on nearly every car they made since 1961. BMW was still playing with the two ovals/rectangles in the middle of a wider grill design much later than that. So just make sure to have actual facts next time before commenting Dan.
I had a very cool 1988 Fiero GT "notch back" with the wing that I bought new. The body is made of a product they called "enduro flex." Sort of a plastic-like material. Door dings would not be an issue. That said, I do think it made the car a little bit too heavy for its size. And the clutch could have been stronger. But still, a really cool looking car. I drove it for 5 years until I got married. It sold immediately for my full asking price.
Nostalgia is a seductive liar. We look back at what was but back then we cursed that Grand Am or Trans Am or Bonneville to holy hell for blowing a head gasket at 47k odo or something routine. I can do a little "memory lane" but that's it. They were junk coming right off the line.
Three speed automatic. Why? Was adding an extra cog to the machine that complicated? If they weren't forced to change, I swear US manufacturers would still be using them.
Think anyone reviewing these cars in 86 thought they would be reviewing 1/2 ton, mid range pickup trucks that do 0-60 in 6 seconds in 2019. That used to be corvette territory. How far we've come!
Also, weight has gone up and performance keeps improving. I know it has to do with more HP being standard these days, but it’s pretty amazing. To think a naturally aspirated Kia 1.6 liter motor would be pushing more than 130 HP would be in the realm of race team technology in the 80s.
Keep in mind, '99 a 3.4L NA V6 was getting about 180HP... Then GDI becomes common about '06 or so. Same NA displacement, but now it's making 250HP at the same economy level for the performance. And that's not even using boost. So engines got ahead of the weight creep heading into the 2010's. And then thinking back to the 1970's and 1980's, the emissions stuff on engines was way more restrictive. Things ended up much better now, but everything is about tuned about as far as it can be pushed.
I had an 85 Grand Am LE V6 with that same hockey stick speedometer, but in Canada so the top reading was 130 km/h, with an extra notch above that was about 140 km/h or 85 mph. When it was pinned, it would sit at the very top and almost disappear which was pretty funny. I replaced it with a gauge cluster from a newer model with a conventional round dial that read to 180 km/h or 110 mph, and a tach, but the tach would read 2/3s too high since it was from a 4 cyl, but interestingly enough the 6700 RPM indicated or so red line for the 4 cyl was about 4500 RPM actual and that was about as fast as you wanted to rev that engine. I never got it to 180, but got to 160 a few times so at least I knew how fast I was going.
This was never meant to be a TRUE performance sedan. Not even close. Just a fun little daily driver. You don't buy this car for it's straight-line acceleration. But, yeah that's not very quick is it?
*My 2016 Corolla S Plus with a 6 speed manual transmission and 4 cylinder engine is just as fast and gets 40+ mpg when babied. Wow has technology made a vast improvement in 30 years.*
GM should have killed Buick but they have ignored the North American market and are now solely focused on what the Chinese want and are killing even more US jobs. GM should have NEVER been bailed out.
Nah, Pontiac would just be a bunch of ugly CUVs, and just couple years away from bunch of electrified bs, at this point. At least GM killed Pontiac with the proper cars. They murdered Buick while the nameplate was still alive, by turning the brand into a bunch of soccer mom hatchbacks on stilts.
I always liked how the later Fiero styling had the flying buttress styling in the back. It always reminded me of a Maserati Merak, particularly after taking a few mild hallucinogens. I remember thinking that the Grand Am was a sharp looking car too for its time. I miss Pontiac, but at least they passed on before SUVs and Toyota ruined automotive styling and performance.
Most Grand Am's I worked on had the 2.5 tech 4. I still have the special oil filter adaptor wrench that it took to get the filter out of the pan.. The 3.0 and later 3.3 Buick V6s vibrated like a dog shitting a peach pit at idle. Nice low end torque though. Fiero's with the 5 speed were pretty fun to drive due to closer gear ratios, still not fast, but fun.
Would be nice to see the whole episode. Also neat seeing 795 being used before it opened. I love seeing parts of Owings Mills of that time. I was still in elementary school when that road was built.
I'd love to see Pontiac come back but this is why it won't. #1 - GM only cares about Buick and the market in China #2 - Everybody wants SUVs and the market is already oversaturated #3 - Most people would rather buy an import vehicle than anything from GM. #4 - GM will most likely botch the relaunch #5 Dodge pretty much filled in the void left by Pontiac which isn't any better. #6 - As much as I would love to see a GM built Firebird & Trans Am they don't want anything that'll outsell or outperform the Corvette and I'm not including the Camaro. #7 - Build quality will still be bad. How bad it'll probably fall between Chrysler and Nissan.
If 5 is true, then Pontiac should just remain dead, because then it would be a contest of who's worse. Before 2008, I had bought mostly (used) GM. And then in 2008, I bought a Toyota. Since then, I see GM has placed under attack one of their last redeeming qualities: relatively good drivetrains. I'm speaking of their decision to import drivetrains from GM Shanghai and stuff them into USDM vehicles, of course. That noise I just heard was the sound of my remaining trust in GM going poof. (Or it's the sound of rod knock ;o) It's sad, really. I was raised on GM, I was able to trust GM (yes, I can say that with a straight face despite owning two Chevettes), so it's just sad that I can't consider GM anymore. I'll be buying another Toyota (a Camry), because when all's said and done, I just want my car to work without a hassle.
#3 - 'Would' but they don't? GM sold 2.94 million cars in the US in 2018. The next closest was Toyota at 2.50 million and Ford at 2.49 million. So apparently a lot of people are still buying GM
Dennis Snider they sell too many trucks to get rid of GMC. There are a lot of people who buy GMC’s that for whatever reason wouldn’t buy a Chevy truck.
They'd be bankrupt if they did that. They dumped Pontiac because it wasn't making money. Too many rental cars and too many incentives needed to shift their performance cars. GMC is a cash mint for GM.
There are aftermarket Trans ams out there. Not sure what the company is called but they basically re do a Camaro to look like a Pontiac then put a 455 in it. Cool car but not affordable
Pontiac, by the 80s just a Chevy with cladding and decals. The Fiero was the rare exception, but by the time they gave it a decent suspension it was on the way out.
Oh to be a Junior in high school again and go back to these times... and tell the world of the evil Roger Smith was doing to GM. R.I.P. Fiero, you were never really given a chance.
They really should bring back Pontiac and sell it alongside Buick in Pontiac-Buick dealerships. Pontiac should be a performance brand and of course there will be SUVs in the line up, but they should be their own vehicles and not a rebadged Chevy or Buick.
@CC Ryder They had skinny, bias ply tires back then, so were very traction limited. But today's muscle cars are crazy fast. In that regard, the good old days are right now.
@CC Ryder You'd be wrong. The people collecting new Hellcats and GT350s and such will be Millennials and Gen Zs who grew up on computers. Boomers will all be dead and Gen Xers will be collecting Japanese and German cars.
Love my 87 Fiero GT. What a blast carving up slalom canyon roads! Never met another Fiero owner that said he/she had the kind of handling problems they had in this review. And as for the spin out: too much break or gas (or not enough, like when you take your foot off it) and any car when pushing it's limits will get out of hand. It's funny how they bash it's handling here, but raved about the 84 being like a slot car! LOL, considering the GT had way better handling than the 84 base. The other thing they raved about on the 84 review was the manual rack and pinion and how it has a go kart feel to it, but here complaining that it's anything but encouraging to drive fast. Just goes to show how "accurate" their reviews are, or where back then. Flip flopping like this is more reminiscent of politics, not a serious car review program. Oh well, at lest it's some form of entertainment, just don't take it too seriously!
While growing in the'80s it seemed like every other car on the road was a Pontiac Grand Am of this vintage. I haven't seen one in person on the road for about 10 years.
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I bought an 2 door SE in 1985. Those models are completely gone. Haven't seen one in a decade.
For all its faults, the Fiero GT was a damn good looking car, and the styling held up well over time.
kgbeezr75 still a great looking car.
Hahahahaha good one
No way. The Fiero was, and still is an ugly car.
I had the '85 and '86 GT. Yes, the styling is what drew me in. I picked up the '86 GT in March of 1996 as a lovingly used vehicle and kept it for several years. My nephew bought the '86 from me and restored it to its original black over silver glory as seen in this video. The little car had potential I believe.
@Donald Trump is Ghetto Trash Very much so. Pristine examples generate interest to this day. I _almost_ went down memory lane two years ago on an '88 red GT. A lady where I worked in 1988 bought a white GT with the T-tops and it really suited her style at the time. I have a clear memory of that lady and her Fiero for some reason.
Pontiacs were known for their sportiness and performance. R.I.P Pontiac.
Ramon Carter in the 1980's it had that European panache.
Pontiac was my favorite gm brand. I've had a bunch of them, my favorite was a 2002 Grand Prix GTP. It made 350whp with a cam and bolt ons.
@@boomerisadog3899 Both my sons learned to drive on the family 57 Pontiac two door hardtop and I've owned one or more Pontiacs since 1960. Even my 58 GMC 3/4 ton pick up has a 60 Pontiac 389 bored .060 to make it a 401. I've owned one or more Fieros since 1989 and currently drive an 88 GT and have an 86 that has been parked for five years. Also, my boat has a Pontiac 400 in it. Anything else? Oh, yeah....have a spare 389 engine sitting around. For $100, it could be yours, as I'm cleaning out.
@@boomerisadog3899 my first car was a 2001 GTP. I loved it. The motor was strong, but everything else fell apart lol. My ABS/trac off lights never went out, the AC stopped working, my sunroof stopped working and the body cladding fell off... But it would haul ass once that supercharger started whining. I loved that car
@@rogervalkriye4133 I had a 98 that was kinda like that. The 02 never had a problem until 1 of the aftermarket injectors went bad at only 84k. I was running a 3.2 supercharger pulley (stock is 3.8) and making around 15lbs so it disintegrated a piston. I was so heartbroken, I had a lot in that car. It was the last time I built my daily too, lol.
Cool review. An 88 Grand Am was my first car. Always wished it had the quad 4 or the turbo motor because it had the 2.5 iron duke. Still the best air conditioning of any car I’ve owned.
Kudos mne was a 1986 pointac beige grand am
Mine was an 89. I was so worried about that car falling apart that I was scared to run the air conditioning. So I kept rolling down the window, until that regulator broke. I'd run the heat in the summer because my mom made me worried it was going to fail at any moment. The car, looking back was just fine. Lol
I had a bad ground so if I wanted that Tech 4 to sound like a WWI plane I'd turn it to AM on the radio and crank up the stereo.
Engineers work hard at making fake engine noises these days, mine was engineered by corrosion. LOL
We bought a 85 Grand Am and the A/C was super effective.
It was our first new car my wife and I bought after we got married.
Could be nostalgia for me but I remember loving my mom’s Fiero GT as a kid. She had the same car, year and everything, but with the spoiler. She used to pit a pillow in the passenger seat so I could see out. Then a year later dad picked up an 87 Grand National. Its still sitting out in the garage to this day. 😎
Never give it up. That Grand National is a treasure.
DrBIeed Sitting *out* in the garage? How can a car sit *out* in a garage when it's parked inside of it?
@@knowbodiesfull5768 Maybe the garage is away from the house and the family considers it "out there".
your mom must have been a cool chick to be married and have a kid and still have a cool car, very rare!!
@@knowbodiesfull5768 you're real fun at parties, huh?
You can have any transmission you want as long as it's a 3 speed automatic. Lmao John you're killing me.
like Buick telling my pop he could have his GN in any color as long as it was black lol
Nobody realizes what he's referencing? Henry Ford was famous for saying "You can have a model T in any color you want, as long as it's black". That's what he's referencing 😭
@@rogervalkriye4133 yeah I remember reading about that. I just think this is funny cause you can hear a little disappointment in the way he says it is only available with the 3 speed auto.
The base Grand Am could be had with a bulletproof Isuzu 5 speed manual transaxle. The base 2.5 liter 4 cylinder was also bulletproof. I had one many years ago. The car was reliable and pretty much indestructible. It was killed by rust and neglect.
Three speeds are such crap transmissions. All the way into the 90s they were in cars. I bitch about Hyundai 4 speed auto in my 2006 Sonata. No overdrive makes a big difference. I can't imagine no fourth gear.. that's on a car
The Grand Am never met a bodyside cladding it didn't like.
And a Dollar General parking lot, too.
The Grand Am is so rare, some people didn’t own one.
@@777jones Yea the first 2 gens are very rare. 3rd gen becoming less common now but 4th and 5th gens are everywhere still.
Nolan McKinney I agree when I look at cars today, they are often just lumpy with this plastic cladding. Nobody knows why sedans even exist anymore. I personally don’t know.
@Donald Trump is Ghetto Trash What year did you have? I owned an 01 GT for 7.5yrs eventually swapped a tuned 3500 in it during my ownership
Pontiac always had the most attitude out of gm brands even in the end.
They did?
@@toyosciothat's what he said, dummy
Well said
That cameraman's life flashed before his eyes after that Fiero broke loose.
pbfloyd13: Yeah, his eyes probably bugged out of his head for sure! The reason it did a 180° spin like that is solely because the driver lifted off the throttle. Any mid-engined car will do that, Porsche's & other mid-engined cars will do exactly the same thing. With a mid-engine car, you never lift off the throttle during any quick evasive manuver or in high speed road cornering. Pontiac & other manufacturers of mid-engined cars all did very poor jobs of telling people who bought them they behaved differently than front engined vehicles, that's the # 1 reason so many get wrecked. I've owned a 1987 Fiero GT for almost 10 years & have lowered the car 2" all around, installed 215 tires up front & 235's in the rear on the factory crosslace wheels, stiffened up the shocks & struts, replaced all the rubber suspension pieces with polyurethane components & now it can be pushed extremely hard thru the corners without any fear at all. The Fiero is a great car & tons of fun!
@@rogergoodman8665 same story with Corvair.
@@jaking2 : I do all the work on my Fiero. The Eibach 2" lowering spring kit was under $300, There are many shock/ strut choices available but I went with KYB units which were around $200 for all 4 but will be putting on QA1 parts soon & all the bushings (control arms, sway bars, engine & trans mounts & other links) were around $250 if I remember right & I had to get them from several different companies because I couldn't find anyone at the time selling a complete kit. Nowadays a complete kit may be available. Right now I'm running Falkin Ziex tires. I've replaced the entire cooling system that includes a 3 core aluminum radiator. I've also replaced the entire brake system with o.e.m. parts but I'm now saving to buy a 12" big brake kit that uses C4 corvette components along with 18" wheels & tires & am also planning a LS4/ 4T65 swap over the winter with upgrades to around 650hp sometime later this year. Probably the most expensive part I've bought so far was a complete stainless steel exhaust system. It hurt my wallet a little as it was $1,200 but it was well worth it. My Fiero is the best handling car I've ever owned! It rides & handles like a formula one car & once my big brakes & engine swap are done...I'm gonna start hunting Ferrari's & Lamborghini's and show them the Fiero's taillights! I bet they'll be pretty pissed off when my little american car that many people ridicule as a parts bin car & firehazzard blows past their $200,000 ride on the highway!
WOW, Roger Goodman!
@@rogergoodman8665I worked with a guy who’s brother was killed cause he lifted off going around a cloverleaf in an AW11 MR2 and rolled. Sad fate. Can see why there’s no cheap mid-engine cars anymore
My first car was in 94. It was an 86 Grand Am LE with the 2.5 iron duke. I loved that car even with all of its issues.
I love Pontiac Grand Am 1986 and 1985, 1987 and 1988, my favorite. I love also Pontiac Fiero GT 85, 86, 87, Fiero 2M4 85, 86 and 88 and Fiero Formula 88. Pontiacs 1980s is my favorites cars
Ditto 94 was my first car also a Grand Am SE had great memories inside it. Besides all the issues mechanically it was my first. I remember the ECM was always an on going issue
Those Grand Am's were popular with mid-20's gals on the go at that time..working, parties, dating dudes. My aunt and a few of her friends had Grand Am's and they were definitely hurtin' for a squirtin'! RIP Aunt Heather
Best comment I've seen all day! I can imagine the team at pontiac discussing the target demographic for the grand am and using your exact words.
Your aunt was hurting for a squirting???
Does she know you feel this way about her?
Faux Craig Singhouse you know what...you are right. I was a kid in the 80s and these were mostly all women owned . One of my best friends at the time his single mom drove......guess what....a Grand Am.
@@ekscalybur most younger 80's and 90's women who drove Pontiacs were hurtin' for a squirtin'
Faux Craig Singhouse
Lol so true. My Dad bought a brand new 92’ GT then he was at the light and saw most every GA had a young girl behind the wheel so he traded it for a 89’ Corvette
Doesn’t matter what retro vehicle you show, love them all, even more than the reviews of new cars, the retro reviews have that old school style and charm! Love it!
My uncle owned a 1986 Pontiac Fiero SE V6 back in the late 90's in Bahrain. He used to be a car enthusiast and big fan of the Trans Am and Corvette. The Fiero is currently sitting inside my grandpa's house garage waiting to be either be restored or thrown in the junk yard.
RIP Pontiac
Would be a shame to junk it.... the body will never rust so that is a good thing.
If you restore it. It will be a massive headache. Unless it was kept indoors .
I have owned and driven Pontiacs since 1960 and currently drive an 88 Fiero GT with V6 and five speed I bought six years ago with 21K on it. It was originally bought by the Pontiac dealer in Mankato MN, where he displayed it for seven years on the showroom floor, then took it as his personal car, moved it to Florida and drove it there when he was on vacation. It now has 42K on it.
how is that possible with the usa export laws for cars in the 80s and 90s
1:52 John: Plus the odd hockey stick speedometer stops at 85! LOL
It is the weirdest speedo i've ever seen...
The absolute worst guage I've ever seen.
Fortunately that hockey stick speedometer was replaced in 1987 when a new gauge cluster which included a conventional Speedometer (Which now stopped at 120 on the SE models) along with a Tachometer and full gauge instrumentation was still offered (Turbocharged models which were also new for 1987 had a boost gauge instead of the voltmeter gauge)
Matthew Caughey every car company has lots of plastic specially new cars
I believe almost all speedometers were maxed out at 85 in the US at the time. It was to try and discourage high speed driving.
I've owned two Corvettes, a BMW 4-series, a '05 GTO, some Caddy's, a Camaro, a Mustang, a Monte Carlo SS convertible and much more - and the most FUN to drive car I've ever owned was a 1985 Fiero GT. The thing is/was a go-kart and was just amazing to throw around. The prior owner did lower the Fiero and stiffen the suspension - and removed the pesky emissions garbage and just had straight pipes to baffles, so it was slightly modified, but in any case it was nothing like what they showed here - the thing stuck to the ground like a vacuum and you couldn't make it break loose, like in this video, no matter what you did. Strange there was such a difference.
because it had probably been changed for the later suspension which was MUCH better.
lesdmark well yeah, that’s why I brought it up - but it was only lightly modified. But every other Fiero owner I’ve ever talked to has said how good the thing has handled as well. I really wonder if they had some bum tires here or something - I mean I could literally do 60mph and yank the wheel hard and the car wouldn’t spin (and I know since I did it many times trying to beat turns at redlights since the car overheated in traffic)
Love my 87 GT. What a blast carving up slalom canyon roads! Yeah, not sure how a guy that test drives car for a living spun it out like that, unless deliberately. And it's funny how they bash it's handling here, but raved about the 84 being like a slot car! LOL, considering the GT had way better handling than the 84 base. Just goes to show how "accurate" their reviews are, or where.
@@mrski4945 I don't think they'd bash the Fiero for some sort of agenda, but maybe they got a beat up press car with garbage tires or something. I do know, personally, from the C5 Vette that I owned, a bad set of tires can completely ruin the way a car drives. For my Vette, it had the factory runflats, which had plenty of tread, were only 3-years old at the most, still looked nearly new, and the car handled well, but not as well as you'd think, and in the rain slip and slided all over the place. I replaced them with some good tires, and it was like getting a new car, now the dry traction was insane while the wet traction was fantastic and the car no longer constantly broke lose, you could drive the car hard in the rain. Whenever I watch these videos I think of that experience that I had - since I though it was the car since the tires looked to be in great shape, they had just hardened up or were a bad set to begin with. For the Fiero, I've know a couple of others that owned them as well, and everyone raved about how you could throw them around and do pretty much anything in them.
@@rodmunch69 Well, I don’t think that they, as you said, bash the Fiero for any agenda, or deliberately. And you raise a very good point about it being a press car. I didn’t even think of that, so thank you for your insight. And you are 100% correct about the tires. I have had the same type of experience you described with your C4. I own a 87 Fiero GT to this day, which came with Goodyear Eagle GTs from the factory, once they wore out (had nothing to do with spirited driving in the canyons, honest… I promise). I upgraded to BF Goodrich T/As, but the ZR rated which was a definite step up from the Eagles. The difference in the canyons was night and day, so yes, totally agree. Guess my frustration with their review is, first they rave about the 1984, which was a base model, 2 years later they test the GT and criticize it. And they criticize some of the exact same things 2 years prior they raved about like the manual rack and pinion steering. But it’s out of my control, and like you said, I also know a bunch of other Fiero owners, and everyone loves throwing them into corners. Thank you for your reply! Cheers!!
I would love to see Pontiac come back!💘💘
Never gonna happen . 🙄
I'd love to see Pontiac come back this is why it won't.
#1 - GM only cares about Buick and the market in China
#2 - Everybody wants SUVs and the market is already oversaturated
#3 - Most people would rather buy an import vehicle than anything from GM.
#4 - GM will most likely botch the relaunch
#5 Dodge pretty much filled in the void left by Pontiac which isn't any better.
#6 - As much as I would love to see a GM built Firebird & Trans Am they don't want anything that'll outsell or outperform the Corvette and I'm not including the Camaro.
Kevron Harris you would have better luck winning the lottery🤣
@@britishsecretagent0078 or winning wheel of fortune 😊👍💙
GM says no because somebody thought they needed TWO"little old lady" brands. I'm looking at YOU, Buick and Cadillac. GM is more of a marketing company than an auto manufacturer.
Why did these two Pontiacs ask me for scratch offs and five to ten bucks inside the gas station...
?
Bingo Bango double you T
@@rhuttrho88 The money is for the pack of Newports.
Did they have cadillacs?
Mad Dog 215 they thought they did
🤗 (me when I see that a new Retro Review has been posted)
Had new 1986 Pontiac Grand Am. I don't recall a lot about it. It was a 4 cylinder engine. Nothing over the top. I remember looking at the Oldsmobile Calais and went with Pontiac. Lot of cars since than. One other in 1998. Bonneville SE. It to was nothing over the top.
Thank you
My sister had a White Calais with navy blue plush interior, 5 speed. I was young, but I remember that interior being so comfortable.
I had a 1986 Grand Am too, it had the Iron Duke 2.5 "tech IV" which was all of like 90 HP it was not very fast, at all it also sounded very odd at an idle as well. My aunt had a calais and it had the Quad 4, which was quick and also quick to blow the head gasket.
Pontiac was the king of body cladding and mouse fur upholstery.
👍💙
And big air vents. And lots of gimmicky buttons .
P. B. Plastiac lol 😂
And the king of oversized tacky, plastic body kit add-ons which made the cars appeared riced out from the factory.
@Noir Spectre it had those headrest speakers! But seats couldn't recline if pushed back.
Back when Pontiac tried to live up to it's name "We build Excitement" was really digging them back then.
Right. The 1000, Parisienne, and Bonneville G were just so darned exciting!
@Jude Thaddaeus hahaha!
Donald Trump is Ghetto Trash To each his own. I’ve always seen the 87-91s as badge-engineered LeSabres, while the 1992-99 was an Olds LSS with more plastic cladding. The 2000-05 was badly overstyled and had an absurdly plasticky interior. There are reasons why, to my mind, it never once outsold its Buick and Olds platform mates from 87-05, despite being less expensive.
@@judethaddaeus9742 I disagree with you about the 00-05 Bonneville, I personally thought the car was gorgeous and a much cleaner design than the water tredding plastic cladding of the 92-99. I really liked the sharp curves, crevasses, and lines. The SSEI and the 04-05 GXP were the best looking models to me.
@@judethaddaeus9742 more exciting than ev's still lol
Miss pontiac
rip
Oh well
Same here. Who knows if the performance division of GM designers would come with next if it was allowed to continue. Miss the firebird that car itself should've not been taken out production! I currently own a 1997 'bird.
I always thought that Fiero was a beautiful car.
Im with you bud. I had an se but always wanted a gt. The interiors were terrible though.
@@Bozar069 All form, no function. It seems the 80s nostalgia may have clouded the fact that most of many of these cars suffered from quality control issues.
@@chriscornelius2518 It was a great car to drive, though I had the occasional "Oh Shit" moment of pushing it past its limits. The main area mine was lacking in was it had the 3 speed automatic. I was doing alot of highway driving when I had it and really missed overdrive.
@Donald Trump is Ghetto Trash mine didnt have the glove box flap. It was an early one so maybe I missed out.
Those Sunbirds were not that bad. I had an 89 and while it was slow it was reliable.
Chris Cornelius
Maybe you weren’t alive back then or driving cars but the 80s were a vast improvement over the 70s in quality. It’s easy to look back 30 plus years and criticize but if you didn’t live it you don’t understand
Personally. This Is The Best Grand Am Ever. Especially With That V6 For It's Day. Gotta Love It.
:-o
The quad 4 introduced in the late 80s left that 3.0 in the dust.
The last generation Grand AM GT V6 in the mid 90s was a far better car IMO.
(We owned one from each era)
@@joekempton7319 I can agree with you on that part as far as that Engine Choice goes. Don"t get me wrong, the quad 4 was an alright Engine, but it was to me still a 4 cylinder and Problems came after that. But as far as a better longer lasting Engine, The first generation V6 engine despite that "Puny" 125 horsepower, , The "86" Engine was a very low Maintenance one and had a much better gas mileage than the ones it Replaced in the late 80's and 90's throughout. Respectively. I Purchased my first grand am in 1986 blue in color With the same package and had it till 1997 with Little to no Problems with it.
Not sure about that. It's the first generation after the X body. Switching to N-body platform definitely improved handling, but better was still to come. The last generation could do that 0-60 in mid 7s as its V6 had the best factory tune. (Nothing amazing now, but GDI wasn't quite a thing around '99 on NA engines.) But the generation before last (or was it 2nd to last?) was the fastest if you managed to get the H.O. Quad4. Although not significantly more powerful than the following generation, it was lighter and that made it quicker.
@@pauljs75 Every Generation Of Engines Weather If It Was The 3.0. The 3.1. The Quad 4 & So Fourth Had To Be Tweaked For Better Performance & Better Fuel Economy For The Years Ahead. But As For My "86" Grand Am. I Loved It From Beginning To The Very End When I Traded In 11 Years Later, It Still Had A Better Resale Value Than The Newer Grand Am's It Replaces. All The Engines Were Reliable Mind You. But For The Money Without The Performance, The First Generation 3.0 Were The Most Valuable Leaders. In My Opinion.
Wow this brings back fond memories of my Pontiac days! I used to own a two door regular Grand Am with the "Iron Duke" 4 cylinder but a few yrs later graduated to the Grand Am SE 2 door white like this model! Wow not fast by any means today but back then it wasn't bad! I loved that car & especially the red backlit dash,it was called the poor man's BMW back then! Then I graduated to the Pontiac Grand Prix McLaren turbo edition in red with gold cross laced wheels! Wish I still had it today man! But I still have the seats from the turbo Grand Prix after all these years!! Wanting to sell or turn into custom theater seats maybe??
Still driving my 2002 Grand Am. Its been bullet proof
I love those but here the Canadian winters have rusted most of them away
Even trailer parks moved on, the Impala and Cobalt are now the queens.
You must be a car mechanic, how can you afford to keep it alive?
Lol except for an intake reseal every 15-20k right
My 2005 Grand Am GT--same.
I miss Pontiac especially the grand am and Grand Prix was my favorite
The 3.0 liter in the Grand Am was a Buick engine used in the Century at that time. That's why the automatic was standard and only.
I think the Fiero was filmed on 795 before it opened.
Thats probably right
At least before it was an official Interstate. I did see some state route shields that showed Maryland 795.
Thank God for Pontiac in the 80s for making cool car. I remember owning a Fiero
SE and a GT they where awesome.
I remember most of them having one or both headlights stuck open.
That Fiero spinning and doing a 360 through the slalom was hilarious! Classic 80s GM! 😂
That has more to do with being mid engine than being GM. Let off the gas and the rear wheels get unloaded due to weight transfer allowing the heavy rear end to swing around.
@@Lykoloo True. Plenty of wrecked MR2's out there for the same reason.
The sad thing is that the Chevette front end was upgraded in 88 and they adjusted the X body subframe in the rear too. Then they stopped production. Way to go GM beancounters
@@303nitzubishi4 It's a shame, the fiero is among the most unique cars to be produced by a US automaker.
Loved the fiero
Pontiacs best car in the 90s was the Firehawk !!! 300hp in the 90s!! FFS 😳😳😳
The Firehawk wasn’t a Pontiac product.
@@DrewLSsix are u stupid. It was a performance upgrade done by SLP engineering. But had to be ordered through the Pontiac Dealerships and was sold by the dealers. And the car was a fuckin Firebird Formula.
@@maximusareilius2262 Not far fetched, since the Fiero Mera (the one with the Ferrari 308 style body kit, but the same 2.8L V6 as the regular GT model) was a low production model that also had to be ordered through and sold only via Pontiac Dealerships. Still surprised that Pontiac attempted that, but so did the producers of Miami Vice when they used a modified 80's Corvette with a Ferrari Daytona Spyder body kit for the TV show...lol
Pontiac was always my favorite GM brand.
Those were the days of Pontiac. My first car was a 1987 Grand Am LE mid-grade and it had the old Iron Duke 2.5 L four cylinder with 98 horsepower. It was two-tone white and silver and interior what's so sporty inside. My dad owned it when he first drove it off the showroom floor at the Pontiac dealership in 87 and he passed it on to me in year 2000. it had two engine replacements and two transmission replace throughout the years but poor on the brakes, that was the major problems. But I miss my old Grand Am it was my first car that I fixed up when I was 18 years of age.
Thanks for sharing. My first car was a 91 olds Calais 5 spd with the HO quad4. My Dad gave mine to me too. My biggest complaint was the fuel tank not having baffles. If you turned too quick with a 1/4 tank it would starve for fuel. Sold mine around 2010. Lots of good memories of racing that car around.
We had a 90 Calais from Granny. Got it with 14K miles in 1996. Horrible brakes. Could never figure out the problem until I replaced the front calipers years later. Then it stopped on a dime. Pads always wore evenly, no symptoms of bad calipers until they actually wore out and seized up. I think it was just a poor design back in the day. But then I had an 87 cavalier and its brakes were great, with the same type of caliper. Weird.
@@AmandaHugenkiss2915 interesting. Never had a problem with my front brakes but the rear drums would lock up sometimes. Usually when it was snowing so that was fun. Lol. It would take a few stops to clear up.
I would like to see a retro review of the '88 Fiero. GM finally got it right that year then they killed it. They should have put the Super Charged 3.8 in the Fiero.
The 3.1 liter turbo V6 from the 1990 Grand Prix STE would have been a great engine for the Fiero GT. 205hp would have been nice to have. Even a manual version would have worked for some people. I would have gotten the automatic myself.
More GM footage! Thank you for this. I appreciate all the GM footage you find and share. I am always surprised at what is brought to You Tube. Please keep it coming. John Davis was right about GM and Pontiac. The days of Pontiac Excitement! I was glad when better engines came later. If Pontiac had lived I bet this car would be rear drive today. The Fiero could have used a 3800 V6 too.
if it had that stuffed in there, then that awful handling it had would have been exacerbated. The 2.8 V-6 made it too rear heavy to begin with.
@@briq4 The FUBAR parts bin suspension the Fiero was saddled with for all but the LAST YEAR is what gave it less than spectacular handling. GM did their usual on the Fiero. #1 Take a good concept from one of the divisions. #2 Committee the concept to death for years, #3 Finally give the green light to the division, with the provision that the car must be done on the half assed cheap, i.e. "Parts Bin Special" or make it special with decals. #4 For whatever reason don't allow the car to be optioned out in any way that the buying public would really like it. The car MUST be option packaged and engine options and transmissions MUST be under powered and boring..... Or unreliable. #5 After the Motor Press and public bitch about the car long enough GM will sink a cubic ton of money in the car to "fix" the issues that GM created in the first place. #6 The damage is done; word of mouth is the car is unreliable/unsafe/under powered/boring...... #7 Cancel the car. Bitch that the American public unfairly doesn't give the Big Three(GM) a chance and the American buyer just doesn't know a good car. Also, make incredibly dumb car and truck commercials that Mahk rips apart. This is the legacy of Roger Smith and his minions.
I use to hate when certain people that don't know about cars say about the Pontiac Fiero GT, "Look at that Ferrari"
That gets me so mad even when they say that about the Toyota MR2 2nd gen and the Nissan 300ZX in the 90s
The MR2 was literally 3X more reliable than the Fiero. Toyota got it right. GM got it wrong. Surprise.
Eric Britton I went to high school with a guy who bought a shiny nearly new Cavalier when the rest of us were trying to buy rust bucket F bodies because we thought they were bad ass. This guy said “dudes, half the girls I take out think this thing is a Ferrari or at least something fast. They don’t care, but they like it. Sure your SS can smoke me, but it has a hole in the door, no heater and girls don’t want to sit in the stained seat of your barn find.”
Guy turned out to be a prick, but he was right.
They used to make aftermarket body kits to turn Fieros into Ferrari lookalikes. Some were more convincing than others.
@@judethaddaeus9742 The Fiero Mera. I saw one in a Pontiac showroom once..looked pretty cool. Ferrari threatened to sue, sooo Bye Bye Mera! LOL!
@@scdevon To be fair, the Fiero was at least 10x as reliable as the Fiat X1/9 it was based on.
I used to love Pontiac cars. As a kid my parents had an 85 grand am se, a 6000 le, and a 91 Grand Prix se which I eventually drove. It’s a shame GM discontinued the Pontiac line.
I had an 88 2 door with a quad 4 engine it's was pretty fast, that quad 4 made 150hp was pretty amazing for it's time
Yeah if you didn't mind feeding it a quart of oil every other fill up.
@@modspell Never had that issue with mine
@Donald Trump is Ghetto Trash what's this dated technology you speak of?
I always loved the look of the Fiero GT. I understand parts are kinda hard to come by these days for restorers.
The notch back GT / Formulas of the final years of the car looked really cool
I’ve never been so excited to hear about these old Pontiacs. Lol
They built it, you felt it. :)
Its amazing how many crap-box small cars like the Grand Am GM used to be able to move back in the day, compared to how many they've sold in the last 2-3 years before they decided not to sell small cars at all.
These were everywhere when I was in elementary school, flyover country really seemed to like them. Way more of these than the Calais or Skylark.
Love this era of GM cars (86-88).
Why?
toyoscio why not fool
My first car - the 86 Grand Am SE. Blue everything - wheels, spoiler, interior. I was 18 and I LOVED that car!! Wish I had a photo of mine or one identical.
I drove an 88 Fiero Formula with a 5-speed. It was slow as hell in straight line acceleration but it was wicked in the turns. I could blast through 90° turns in my subdivision at 30 without flinching. Guess it’s a good thing I never let up on the gas!
I love these retro reviews, reminds me how far these car manufactures have come.
You say the 11.6 second 0-60 is quick. What a long way we have come. That would be a real DOG today
For an everyday car back in the 80s, a 0-60 of less than 10 seconds was considered quick. Keep in mind that the 120 bhp V6 Grand Am reviewed in this video had better acceleration than most of its rivals. The performance of the N-bodies improved significantly when GM's 150 bhp 2.3 L 16 valve Quad Four was introduced in 1988, where the 0-60 was 8.5 seconds.
The thing that would separate them, is power delivery. That Grand Am make a little bit of torque down low. So it had the sensation that you "got going" okay, with some initial thrust. But power tapers off quickly as speed/revs build. Contrast to slow cars today, Toyota Prius C, Yaris, etc, those cars basically make no power anywhere. Just a linear power delivery that makes them feel slower than the actual 0-60, where the Grand Am might feel quicker than it actually is.
@@95mushroom My wife owned a 09 Yaris. 10-second 0-60 Accelleration and performance was largely identical to a 78 Honda I had in high school. The Honda was a little more fun to drive without power steering though (didn't need it really) Steering was a bit numb in the Yaris by comparison
@@vossler360 The rare one to find is the GT with the H.O. Quad 4 and 5-speed manual LSD Getrag performance package. 180HP and 0-60 around 7.2 seconds or so. Those were quick compared to the cars of that era, but the regular Quad 4 was a lot more common and still not too pokey.
For all the punch that was possible it's a shame those Quad 4's don't have much long term reliability. Finding one in good condition now has got to be rarer than a barn find of a car that is worth some decent money.
Love the Grand Am, but the Fiero is my favorite. I have an 88 GT now. I miss Pontiac. Thanks MotorWeek for posting this.
I WOULD!!!!!!!! I LOVE all of the "Whatever happened to.........?" RR's you guys are posting lately!!!!
Had an 87 grand am. Ran great and ran even better after a 3.8L was installed. The 3.0L was a short stroke 3.8 without a balance shaft. felt like it was miss firing at idle sometimes.
The 3.8 was a great motor!!!
Idle on mine felt okay, but the engine had a visual shake that looked like misfire, which is pretty funny. Just off idle you could feel the shake but then disappeared soon after, so you never really drove it in the shake range. I was getting a tire rotation once, and the girl working the front counter at the tire shop said "normal cars don't run that way" and I said "I guess you haven't been around any 90 degree GM V6s."
It was missing two cylinders.
Started life as a BUICK V-8.
BUICK cut off two cylinders, to make a V-6. BUICK could build the V-6 on the same Assembly line as the Buick V-8.
BUICK saved 100s of millions of dollars, using the same engine plant and equipment as the Buick V-8. Also, BUICK had a V-6 engine in just 6 months. If they had to develop a NEW, 60° V-6, it would have taken years & 100s millions of dollars. It was a quick fix.
A lot of these 1985 to 1991 Grand Am’s came with the clatter of 2.5 L iron duke engine noise under the hood. The quad four was optional, and the V-6 was rare for most buyers.
Never lift in the corners, just keep the gas pinned to the floor. I love it.
Pontiac needs to make a comeback.
The Grand Am's bootleg BMW twin kidney grille is adorable.
Dan McCarthy I don’t think a ‘69 Firebird and a ‘70 GTO’s grilles were bootleg BMW... I don’t think anyone was going to mistake this for a BMW lol.
@@sidefx996 Come on, man. That's obviously what Pontiac was going for here.
Pontiac used a split grille on nearly every car they made since 1961.
BMW was still playing with the two ovals/rectangles in the middle of a wider grill design much later than that. So just make sure to have actual facts next time before commenting Dan.
@1:41 I love how he just drags the suitcase along the paint as much as possible
That's because that car likely went to the junkyard after the review lol
Glad to know I wasn't the only one cringing when he did that 😖😡
As a Lyft driver I relate!
Seems like Motorweek did that in every video, to emphasize the “high lift over height”...lol
It's a press car. They endured much worse abuse than that and were crushed afterwards.
Too bad hardly any of these left now, what great cars. I loved these in high school.
I had a very cool 1988 Fiero GT "notch back" with the wing that I bought new. The body is made of a product they called "enduro flex." Sort of a plastic-like material. Door dings would not be an issue. That said, I do think it made the car a little bit too heavy for its size. And the clutch could have been stronger. But still, a really cool looking car. I drove it for 5 years until I got married. It sold immediately for my full asking price.
Nostalgia is a seductive liar. We look back at what was but back then we cursed that Grand Am or Trans Am or Bonneville to holy hell for blowing a head gasket at 47k odo or something routine. I can do a little "memory lane" but that's it. They were junk coming right off the line.
vincent narvaez nah you obviously don’t know what the hell your talking bout idiot
Looks like they did their track testing on a new freeway that hadn't opened yet? I wonder how the heck they swung that.
Three speed automatic. Why? Was adding an extra cog to the machine that complicated? If they weren't forced to change, I swear US manufacturers would still be using them.
It's because they didn't care. They knew the government would bail them out no matter how shitty their cars were.
I loved these when they came out. I was a lowly navy enlisted man and the Grand Am was out of my price range.
Think anyone reviewing these cars in 86 thought they would be reviewing 1/2 ton, mid range pickup trucks that do 0-60 in 6 seconds in 2019. That used to be corvette territory. How far we've come!
Also, weight has gone up and performance keeps improving. I know it has to do with more HP being standard these days, but it’s pretty amazing. To think a naturally aspirated Kia 1.6 liter motor would be pushing more than 130 HP would be in the realm of race team technology in the 80s.
@ jo hn Easy there, Indy race teams in the 60s were getting 750hp out of 2.7 liter V8s......
Straight line acceleration alone does not make an exciting car.
Keep in mind, '99 a 3.4L NA V6 was getting about 180HP... Then GDI becomes common about '06 or so. Same NA displacement, but now it's making 250HP at the same economy level for the performance. And that's not even using boost. So engines got ahead of the weight creep heading into the 2010's.
And then thinking back to the 1970's and 1980's, the emissions stuff on engines was way more restrictive. Things ended up much better now, but everything is about tuned about as far as it can be pushed.
At 1:30 It’s a star (Jeff Daniels) in a reasonably priced car.
Man I’ve always wanted a Fiero I still love them ❤️
I had an 85 Grand Am LE V6 with that same hockey stick speedometer, but in Canada so the top reading was 130 km/h, with an extra notch above that was about 140 km/h or 85 mph. When it was pinned, it would sit at the very top and almost disappear which was pretty funny. I replaced it with a gauge cluster from a newer model with a conventional round dial that read to 180 km/h or 110 mph, and a tach, but the tach would read 2/3s too high since it was from a 4 cyl, but interestingly enough the 6700 RPM indicated or so red line for the 4 cyl was about 4500 RPM actual and that was about as fast as you wanted to rev that engine. I never got it to 180, but got to 160 a few times so at least I knew how fast I was going.
In Europe it was to go to 200 KpH, but this cars where barely to drive with more then 140 KpH. !!
0-60 in 11+ seconds,that’s funny.
Its crazy ....quick cars get down the quarter mile as fast as this car is just getting started.
Wonder what you'd think of the Volkswagen Beetle, Chevrolet Chevette, or pretty much any 70s or early 80s japanese car?
This was never meant to be a TRUE performance sedan. Not even close. Just a fun little daily driver. You don't buy this car for it's straight-line acceleration.
But, yeah that's not very quick is it?
My '86 Grand Am was the Greatest. Car. Ever. Loved it. I loaned it to my brother. His wife cooked it. He didn't tell her I rigged a manual fan switch.
Make one for the 1989 Pontiac Bonneville!!!!! That car was and still is a beast. I own one, that car is a beautiful big boat that makes you float. Lol
*My 2016 Corolla S Plus with a 6 speed manual transmission and 4 cylinder engine is just as fast and gets 40+ mpg when babied. Wow has technology made a vast improvement in 30 years.*
I would love to see Pontiac come back
GM should have killed Buick but they have ignored the North American market and are now solely focused on what the Chinese want and are killing even more US jobs. GM should have NEVER been bailed out.
Nah, Pontiac would just be a bunch of ugly CUVs, and just couple years away from bunch of electrified bs, at this point. At least GM killed Pontiac with the proper cars. They murdered Buick while the nameplate was still alive, by turning the brand into a bunch of soccer mom hatchbacks on stilts.
I always liked how the later Fiero styling had the flying buttress styling in the back. It always reminded me of a Maserati Merak, particularly after taking a few mild hallucinogens. I remember thinking that the Grand Am was a sharp looking car too for its time. I miss Pontiac, but at least they passed on before SUVs and Toyota ruined automotive styling and performance.
I loved the little Fiero. it was one heck of a cool little commuter car.
That Fiero has a cool interior.
Wow that Fiero looks sweet....And can't believe that is the future 795.
My roommate in college had a 1986 Grand Am. This was in 1992. I can still remember that wierd dash and instrument cluster.
The one from my past that I wish I could get back is the grand am, I miss that car.
I loved my fiero SE. It was such a fun little car with pretty decent acceleration.
Pontiac was about 5 years late in starting the overhaul of their lineup and that's what ultimately did them in. Would love to see them return.
Most Grand Am's I worked on had the 2.5 tech 4. I still have the special oil filter adaptor wrench that it took to get the filter out of the pan.. The 3.0 and later 3.3 Buick V6s vibrated like a dog shitting a peach pit at idle. Nice low end torque though. Fiero's with the 5 speed were pretty fun to drive due to closer gear ratios, still not fast, but fun.
Thanks for your comment. I laughed my as off. And right now we could all use a good laugh.
Thanks
Would be nice to see the whole episode. Also neat seeing 795 being used before it opened. I love seeing parts of Owings Mills of that time. I was still in elementary school when that road was built.
Weird to see Fiero without a wing on it. I had a gold 86. Loved that car
That Grand Am was a bucket of crap. The Fiero was an awesome car, had one and it was fun to drive and reliable.
Pontiac sure knew how to make torque-happy cars back in the day.
Silver N Black Mopar which leaves me thinking, why and when did Pontiac let themselves go?
Silver N Black Mopar that's true. it's like America's new legislations are holding US brands back.
I'd love to see Pontiac come back but this is why it won't.
#1 - GM only cares about Buick and the market in China
#2 - Everybody wants SUVs and the market is already oversaturated
#3 - Most people would rather buy an import vehicle than anything from GM.
#4 - GM will most likely botch the relaunch
#5 Dodge pretty much filled in the void left by Pontiac which isn't any better.
#6 - As much as I would love to see a GM built Firebird & Trans Am they don't want anything that'll outsell or outperform the Corvette and I'm not including the Camaro.
#7 - Build quality will still be bad. How bad it'll probably fall between Chrysler and Nissan.
If 5 is true, then Pontiac should just remain dead, because then it would be a contest of who's worse.
Before 2008, I had bought mostly (used) GM. And then in 2008, I bought a Toyota.
Since then, I see GM has placed under attack one of their last redeeming qualities: relatively good drivetrains. I'm speaking of their decision to import drivetrains from GM Shanghai and stuff them into USDM vehicles, of course. That noise I just heard was the sound of my remaining trust in GM going poof. (Or it's the sound of rod knock ;o)
It's sad, really. I was raised on GM, I was able to trust GM (yes, I can say that with a straight face despite owning two Chevettes), so it's just sad that I can't consider GM anymore. I'll be buying another Toyota (a Camry), because when all's said and done, I just want my car to work without a hassle.
@@junker15 I don't blame you lately the way the current Toyota Camry and Honda Civic for example looks like they're IMO designed like a Pontiac.
chaseman94 your list is spot on
#3 - 'Would' but they don't? GM sold 2.94 million cars in the US in 2018. The next closest was Toyota at 2.50 million and Ford at 2.49 million. So apparently a lot of people are still buying GM
@@95mushroom everyone has their preference of what brand of vehicle to buy and how it'll be treated is totally up to the consumer.
They should have dumped GMC and kept Pontiac. Image a new trans am with a LT
Dennis Snider they sell too many trucks to get rid of GMC. There are a lot of people who buy GMC’s that for whatever reason wouldn’t buy a Chevy truck.
Ummm the market spoke, 2 doors are a niche now.
GMC has a lot of name cache.
They'd be bankrupt if they did that. They dumped Pontiac because it wasn't making money. Too many rental cars and too many incentives needed to shift their performance cars. GMC is a cash mint for GM.
There are aftermarket Trans ams out there. Not sure what the company is called but they basically re do a Camaro to look like a Pontiac then put a 455 in it. Cool car but not affordable
@@303nitzubishi4 Trans Am Specialties out of Tallahassee FL
Pontiac, by the 80s just a Chevy with cladding and decals. The Fiero was the rare exception, but by the time they gave it a decent suspension it was on the way out.
The N body didn't have a Chevrolet variant. Chevrolet based their L body on the N body, and wasn't released until 1987.
Love the retro videos, MW. Would be icing on the cake if you'd put the original air date in the descriptions for these!
I like that idea
FINALLY! A Grand Am SE!! But why did they do a FOUR DOOR?!!
And there it is again.. a guy absolutely giving the shifter hell.
Oh to be a Junior in high school again and go back to these times... and tell the world of the evil Roger Smith was doing to GM. R.I.P. Fiero, you were never really given a chance.
I used to have a 88 Grand Am Quad 4. I miss it
Just watching the Fiero portion made me want to double check my office sprinkler system.
Hearing that analogy at the beginning makes it sound like GM is some sort of victim of some terrible accident the whole family got in.
They really should bring back Pontiac and sell it alongside Buick in Pontiac-Buick dealerships. Pontiac should be a performance brand and of course there will be SUVs in the line up, but they should be their own vehicles and not a rebadged Chevy or Buick.
Not rebadged? = impossible.
I miss Pontiac also.
"It's quick but not fast". 11.4 seconds to 60 mph. Good grief.
The Fiero GT could be called quick for 1986. The Grand Am, not so much.
@CC Ryder They had skinny, bias ply tires back then, so were very traction limited. But today's muscle cars are crazy fast. In that regard, the good old days are right now.
@CC Ryder Agreed. I'd take a '69 Road Runner or Boss 429 over every car made today.
Compared to other compacts at the time, it wasn't that bad. Pretty sure it got the quad4 the next year, it would keep up with the Fiero then.
@CC Ryder You'd be wrong. The people collecting new Hellcats and GT350s and such will be Millennials and Gen Zs who grew up on computers. Boomers will all be dead and Gen Xers will be collecting Japanese and German cars.
Thank you and 2 words.
FANTASTIC
Also, please do one on the 86 celebrity, that was my first vehicle. thanks
That Fiero GT is just pure awesomeness!
Love my 87 Fiero GT. What a blast carving up slalom canyon roads! Never met another Fiero owner that said he/she had the kind of handling problems they had in this review. And as for the spin out: too much break or gas (or not enough, like when you take your foot off it) and any car when pushing it's limits will get out of hand. It's funny how they bash it's handling here, but raved about the 84 being like a slot car! LOL, considering the GT had way better handling than the 84 base. The other thing they raved about on the 84 review was the manual rack and pinion and how it has a go kart feel to it, but here complaining that it's anything but encouraging to drive fast. Just goes to show how "accurate" their reviews are, or where back then. Flip flopping like this is more reminiscent of politics, not a serious car review program. Oh well, at lest it's some form of entertainment, just don't take it too seriously!
Wanted to make a “euro” performance sedan...only comes with a 3 speed auto!
While growing in the'80s it seemed like every other car on the road was a Pontiac Grand Am of this vintage. I haven't seen one in person on the road for about 10 years.
I still see some of the newer Grand Ams on the road now and then...like mine...and that's in the NE...!