If this was a contemporary story, I would be upset by what Daphne did, but in a Regency context it is not very surprising. Upper class marriages at that time were all about procreation / continuing the family line, not love. If Daphne doesn't have kids & the Duke dies, she could even risk getting thrown out of her home by a distant cousin because women couldn't inherit property.
Exactly! I wish the virtue self-righteous on soc. media would put aside their outraged 21st century sensibilities when watching period dramas, especially about Regency men & women whose concept of the word (& modern terminology of) "consent" as we know it, was non-existent.
When you think about marriage in the regency era, it was basically a contract for them to have children. They basically vow to do it, and I think Simon’s refusal actually violates that principle.
Another great reaction ladies. But I think that plot point needed to be in the show in some way, otherwise his vow doesn't make sense. If she accidently became pregnant because of his pull out game then there is no big blow up. How would it be played out? But she was still wrong!!! and he was wrong too but not on the same level as she was. I agree on your thoughts about the time period, ladies had arranged marriages with strangers or men they didn't want to be with and were somewhat forced to sleep with them so in Daphne's mind maybe she thought she had done nothing wrong. I think he should have been honest with her and she would have married him anyway. Remember Cressida saw them in the garden and if she didn't marry Simon she would have been ruined. Just like she was going to marry Berbrooke because he was going to start a rumor, she would have married Simon to stop another rumor.
LOVED it!! Again you analysis are just amazing!! Never read the books but the fact that you called “ rape” at last sex scene was on point!! Still digging the Yellow hat!! Thanks guys!
The first reaction I've seen where you realized Simon wasn't "tricking" her. Everybody seems to think he purposely lied to use her which is obviously not the case.
I can't see how the series could not tackle this MAJOR plot point in the book. It's the very foundation of Simon & Daphne's story. When did people start to only want to read/watch stories that were comfortable & non-controversial to them? The point is that these protagonists are flawed, engaging in deplorable acts that split them apart. The reader/viewer then has to see what it is that mends their relationship. If you don't want to watch the regressive socio-political dynamics of that time, I suggest you forget historical dramas all together.
I also believe slack should be given to Daphne for a lot of reasons. There's no way to have an episode talking about how naive she is and then expect her to understand the consequences of what she was doing. I also despise presentism. It's the ruiner of all historical fiction. If people cannot put it aside they should not watch or comment on things not of the current era
I've said it before but I'll say it again - at least now people are actually talking about it soon as they watch the show rather then ignoring it or overlooking it like they did the scene in 'Glee' when Puck got Quinn pregnant (the giving her alcohol and saying 'yes you can' when she said 'I can't do this').
Your comment about does it hurt ignores the reality that sex can be painful and her question would not necessarily be a clue about babies. It's a common question that people ask during sex when they are first with someone. Simon even told Daphne on their wedding night that it will hurt when they do it.
Your plot idea of Daphne accidentally getting pregnant works SO MUCH better and would be such an interesting examination of how the society in which Daphne lives failed her. Honestly the fact the author apparently views Simon's betrayal and Daphne's betrayal as equal is really disturbing and yet another example of male SA survivors not being taken seriously. Anyway, great reaction. I super appreciate you taking this one so seriously.
Teaching Daphne about masturbation doesn't mean that she would not know how a baby is made. Just think: if Marina had told Penelope how a baby was made, she would know about babies without knowing about masturbation. You can have knowledge of one without knowledge of the other. So bringing up that point is a way of blaming Simon for Daphne's actions. You have mentioned several times about the Duke's willful ignorance. Well, couldn't this also be willful ignorance considering most of the women the Duke has been with are more worldly. Plus, the Duke is the same guy who asked his wife for permission on their wedding night so unless Daphne calls BS on Simon, why do you guys call BS?
The thing that I don't like about some women reacting to romantic shows is they lose all sense of fairness. If Penelope had gone to Collin and told him the truth or just written an anonymous letter to him, then she could have saved him without ruining Marina's life or destroying her own family's reputation. That's not a conclusion that you can come to become you have predecided that Marina is wrong and Penelope is right and the ends does justify the means.
Colin wouldn’t have believed it, he barely believed Whistledown and she is proven to be accurate in her retelling of gossip. Marina was wretched to everyone the entire season, even the only person who was kind to her, Penelope. Yes Mrs Featherington was quite abrasive and sharp tongued but she really did try her best to save Marine from herself. George Crane is the villain here, he was willing to sleep with her without marrying her before going off to war, IRRESPONSIBLY! Knowing he could die and leave her destitute. All of the onus falls upon Marina and George.
@@googleknowsus8184 I mean I, get that but also, it's a fantasy-period-piece that prided itself on being purposely historically inaccurate. It was sold to people as being progressive in its writing and, casting. They could have easily changed that scene or left it out completely. You're right, I have seen some criticism of that scene, but most of the reactions I've watched people ignored it or even worst thought it was some sort of power move from Daphane, which was completely disgusting.
Completely agree about that scene, I think it was kept in to further the anger/tension between them for next episode but it's still not justified imo they deffo coulve done that a different way loved your guys discussion on that! I also wanted more cuteness instead of so many sex scenes lol ps love your new hair Jinxie 😊❤
If this was a contemporary story, I would be upset by what Daphne did, but in a Regency context it is not very surprising. Upper class marriages at that time were all about procreation / continuing the family line, not love. If Daphne doesn't have kids & the Duke dies, she could even risk getting thrown out of her home by a distant cousin because women couldn't inherit property.
Exactly! I wish the virtue self-righteous on soc. media would put aside their outraged 21st century sensibilities when watching period dramas, especially about Regency men & women whose concept of the word (& modern terminology of) "consent" as we know it, was non-existent.
When you think about marriage in the regency era, it was basically a contract for them to have children. They basically vow to do it, and I think Simon’s refusal actually violates that principle.
Another great reaction ladies. But I think that plot point needed to be in the show in some way, otherwise his vow doesn't make sense. If she accidently became pregnant because of his pull out game then there is no big blow up. How would it be played out? But she was still wrong!!! and he was wrong too but not on the same level as she was. I agree on your thoughts about the time period, ladies had arranged marriages with strangers or men they didn't want to be with and were somewhat forced to sleep with them so in Daphne's mind maybe she thought she had done nothing wrong. I think he should have been honest with her and she would have married him anyway. Remember Cressida saw them in the garden and if she didn't marry Simon she would have been ruined. Just like she was going to marry Berbrooke because he was going to start a rumor, she would have married Simon to stop another rumor.
There is no way they would have gotten rid of that scene! It’s too dramatic😜 Were talking Shandaland here!
Wildest dreams... that’s the Taylor’s song.
LOVED it!! Again you analysis are just amazing!! Never read the books but the fact that you called “ rape” at last sex scene was on point!! Still digging the Yellow hat!! Thanks guys!
The first reaction I've seen where you realized Simon wasn't "tricking" her. Everybody seems to think he purposely lied to use her which is obviously not the case.
Love your discussion about the episode!
This episode is just pain and rage
I can't see how the series could not tackle this MAJOR plot point in the book. It's the very foundation of Simon & Daphne's story. When did people start to only want to read/watch stories that were comfortable & non-controversial to them? The point is that these protagonists are flawed, engaging in deplorable acts that split them apart. The reader/viewer then has to see what it is that mends their relationship. If you don't want to watch the regressive socio-political dynamics of that time, I suggest you forget historical dramas all together.
Great comment.
I also believe slack should be given to Daphne for a lot of reasons. There's no way to have an episode talking about how naive she is and then expect her to understand the consequences of what she was doing. I also despise presentism. It's the ruiner of all historical fiction. If people cannot put it aside they should not watch or comment on things not of the current era
I've said it before but I'll say it again - at least now people are actually talking about it soon as they watch the show rather then ignoring it or overlooking it like they did the scene in 'Glee' when Puck got Quinn pregnant (the giving her alcohol and saying 'yes you can' when she said 'I can't do this').
Your comment about does it hurt ignores the reality that sex can be painful and her question would not necessarily be a clue about babies. It's a common question that people ask during sex when they are first with someone. Simon even told Daphne on their wedding night that it will hurt when they do it.
This.
Your plot idea of Daphne accidentally getting pregnant works SO MUCH better and would be such an interesting examination of how the society in which Daphne lives failed her. Honestly the fact the author apparently views Simon's betrayal and Daphne's betrayal as equal is really disturbing and yet another example of male SA survivors not being taken seriously. Anyway, great reaction. I super appreciate you taking this one so seriously.
Simon could easily have lifted her right off him if he'd "really" wanted to. I have a hard time calling that R.
....
Wildest dreams by taylor swift
Teaching Daphne about masturbation doesn't mean that she would not know how a baby is made. Just think: if Marina had told Penelope how a baby was made, she would know about babies without knowing about masturbation. You can have knowledge of one without knowledge of the other. So bringing up that point is a way of blaming Simon for Daphne's actions. You have mentioned several times about the Duke's willful ignorance. Well, couldn't this also be willful ignorance considering most of the women the Duke has been with are more worldly. Plus, the Duke is the same guy who asked his wife for permission on their wedding night so unless Daphne calls BS on Simon, why do you guys call BS?
Exactly! So many people kept trying to make that argument. But a girl not knowing about masturbation is not the same as not knowing about procreation.
When are you going to do the last 2 episodes ?
The thing that I don't like about some women reacting to romantic shows is they lose all sense of fairness. If Penelope had gone to Collin and told him the truth or just written an anonymous letter to him, then she could have saved him without ruining Marina's life or destroying her own family's reputation. That's not a conclusion that you can come to become you have predecided that Marina is wrong and Penelope is right and the ends does justify the means.
Colin wouldn’t have believed it, he barely believed Whistledown and she is proven to be accurate in her retelling of gossip. Marina was wretched to everyone the entire season, even the only person who was kind to her, Penelope. Yes Mrs Featherington was quite abrasive and sharp tongued but she really did try her best to save Marine from herself. George Crane is the villain here, he was willing to sleep with her without marrying her before going off to war, IRRESPONSIBLY! Knowing he could die and leave her destitute. All of the onus falls upon Marina and George.
Thank you so much for addressing that terrible scene and not ignoring it. That scene killed the entire show for me.
I 100% agree. The way the show and most fans just ignored what she did makes me sick.
@@monicamosse160 it’s not being ignored. Absolutely, it’s not, the era had a certain set of rules we now deem to be absolutely unacceptable.
@@googleknowsus8184 I mean I, get that but also, it's a fantasy-period-piece that prided itself on being purposely historically inaccurate. It was sold to people as being progressive in its writing and, casting. They could have easily changed that scene or left it out completely. You're right, I have seen some criticism of that scene, but most of the reactions I've watched people ignored it or even worst thought it was some sort of power move from Daphane, which was completely disgusting.
Thanks for pointing out Penelope’s raised wine glass. Have never noticed it before! I really enjoy your reactions.😊
When are you going to finish the chilling adventures of Sabrina?
Completely agree about that scene, I think it was kept in to further the anger/tension between them for next episode but it's still not justified imo they deffo coulve done that a different way
loved your guys discussion on that! I also wanted more cuteness instead of so many sex scenes lol
ps love your new hair Jinxie 😊❤
Are u still doing riverdale??
Despite the super long delay, we are!
When are you doing more caos reactions