I noticed that this video is very similar to the one from 'The Deadlock Meta'. They also mention how tier lists can vary at rank. Keep up the great work!
Thank you! 100% Tier Lists are subjective in nature. With the help of the Data we track on the Tracklock website, and the tracklock competitive team who places well on the leaderboards, we try to be as objective as possible when we present our data! As we release more videos and update our algorithms, we'll be able to dial in the information much more effectively as well!
Win rate is a factor in our tier list, but it's not the whole basis for where heroes land. We have our own Tracklock team that consists of multiple top 100 players, and consult them after the patch to determine where we believe heroes will fall. Then we weigh their thoughts against what we are seeing with Win/Pick rate and make our best guess (because this video is being worked on the day the patch drops, there isn't much immediate data yet). After the publishing of the video, we continue to analyze and work with top players to create a revised version that will go out about a week after the first video goes live.
I'm sorry it feels that way. We're still dialing in our process of how we judge a heroes tier for future videos, so maybe we'll be closer aligned going forward!
I’ve been playing deadlock for 48 hours, and have 0 way of comparing champs to pre-patch. However- This video felt like it came from a major (100k-1m+ subs) gaming channel. Fantastic quality, easy to follow, and packed with information. Hope deadlock blows up, if so, your channel will too! Consider my sub an investment ;) 🤣
Weird video overall. Ur ranking seems to be based strictly on heroes winrates, but u try to justify it with their personal changlogs, while most heroes are more affected by item changes, overall gamelpay mechanic tweaks, meta, and just popularity. So in the end, u just recite some of patchnotes and obfuscate hero winrate with a tier ranking, while intro promises some form of meaningful analysis.
Thanks for the comment, I'd like to go into our analysis on why heroes rank the way they do. Tracklock has some top leaderboard players on our competitive team, when the patch notes dropped we consult with our team and then weigh the suggestions they make against our Tier List Data on the Tracklock website. Which is based on Winrate/Pickrate across different ranks though as of recording this data is not a full picture yet., so we make our best judgement calls with a plan to update any meaningful increases or decreases early next week. We know that Item changes affect the heroes just as much as their personal changes. At the time of writing/recording however, those changes haven't always come fully to fruition which can make it difficult to include them in all cases. It's something we'll look to include more in the future! Going forward there are two other things we want to improve. First, I'll do a better job explaining our methodology up front to make things more clear. Secondly, we'll be refining the feedback changes to be more concise about why a hero is changing or staying the same with some direct quotes from the team. Thanks again!
Dynamo's ult got hit pretty hard this patch, with the mix of Cooldown Reduction Nerfs and his ultimate getting a longer cooldown on top of it, he's one of the hardest heroes hit right now. Don't get me wrong, his ult will still be very impactful but it will also need to be used much more carefully. As for Bebop, we aren't judging a heroes tier ranking purely against the changes made in the patch itself, but also against how they've been performing on average, as well as how the heroes around them have changed. So while he got smaller tweaks this time around, he's been seeing an uptick in performance even before this patch, thus moving him to the A-tier.
Maybe you should incorporate item changes to the tier list rankings. You're stating Vinicta had nerfs yet you ranked her higher. Maybe you should consider the item choices players use with those characters. You might want to also factor in things like soul changes and even map tweaks too
Great suggestions! We're definitely looking at how we can improve the format going forward, and a big one is talking about how item changes also affect heroes.
Right now Paradox sits in our B-Tier but is slowly rising. Playing her as a utility hero that swaps the enemy carries seems to be her best options right now!
Very odd tierlist. Do you base this just on winrate? That seems to be the corroborative argument at every change. Tierlists should, in my opinion, be considered based on the same echolon as Icefrog balances his games: their potential, and potential only. That means 99% of the playerbase should be completely irrelevant for judging the strength of any hero, making winrate in general an obsolete metric.
Thanks for the comment, I'd like to go into our analysis on why heroes rank the way they do. Tracklock has some top leaderboard players on our competitive team, when the patch notes dropped we consult with our team and then weigh the suggestions they make against our Tier List Data on the Tracklock website. Which is based on Winrate/Pickrate across different ranks though as of recording this data is not a full picture yet., so we make our best judgement calls with a plan to update any meaningful increases or decreases early next week. We also know that Item changes affect the heroes just as much as their personal changes. At the time of writing/recording however, those changes haven't always come fully to fruition which can make it difficult to include them in all cases. It's something we'll look to include more in the future! Going forward there are two other things we want to improve. First, I'll do a better job explaining our methodology up front to make things more clear. Secondly, we'll be refining the feedback changes to be more concise about why a hero is changing or staying the same with some direct quotes from the team, and not just comparing them to their winrates necessarily.
@@tracklock_gg You can do that, but I think your methodology right now, at least from the little you convey and present on your website, is completely useless. To illustrate: in Dota 60-80% of the ranks are filled with people who really do not know what they are doing. They get into the game, want to play one hero and don't care for any drafting implication. This is the "casual" crowd, always the largest in any game even in ranked. In these ranks typical pubstompers like Broodmother and Meepo dominate games, and as a result their winrates are inflated to caricatural degrees. These heroes aren't "good" in the conventional sense, they are "good against bad, uncoordinated players". Icefrog never balances his game around these people because they don't actually play the game it was intended to be played. They just kind-of exist in it. Just like how you would not redesign a puzzle game because a toddler uses the pieces as a non-functional crayon.
We appreciate the feedback! My opinion on tier lists is that they need to appeal to the part player base that will benefit from them the most. In the majority of cases, that's the mid-low end of the skill brackets, as people in Eternus for example, aren't looking to watch a tier list video to know who to pick in their next game and/or tournament. Using our averaged out data for skill, and the influence of players that we consult, we aim to reach that middle-low demographic with these lists. We have the ability to sort our data on the Tracklock website, by ranks and as such can see the definitive shifts in heroes and their win/pick rates. Also, I'm always open to other ideas or methodologies when it comes to these lists as they are a very subjective thing to provide. Since you are using Dota2 as an example, I'd greatly appreciate it if you would provide me a link to a tier list you feel best represents the methodology you prefer tier lists be based on. I don't guarantee it'll change how we view/produce these going forward, but I'm open to learn more about it! If you don't have time for that, no worries at all, we still appreciate the feedback you've provided so far!
New Mirage scarab does not work as u state. Hitting scarab second time reapplies health drain. Now u can do almost 3 times more damage to a single target with scarabs, just need to apply them with about 4 sec delay.
You are totally right! The damage doesn't immediately re-apply if you spam it but waiting a few seconds and throwing another scarab refreshes the drain over time, not just the duration the debuff takes place. We'll do some more in-depth testing going forward on changes like this to ensure we aren't misreporting changes. Thanks!
sweet videos guys! keep it up... i really like the idea of more guide type videos since as good as these videos are, as soon as the next patch drops this is just super dated
Thanks! Guides are definitely something we are exploring. We've got the Pocket guide we are working on for later this week, and from there we'll expand into more heroes and builds. In addition, these tier lists will be released each patch to make sure the data is as up to date as possible! Our goal is to release them as quickly as possible after each patch (with data supporting our findings) so it's relevant for as long as possible.
Infernus is definitely climbing fast! His buffs and some item changes have given him much more favour than we expected, we're keeping an eye on his performance overall and will talk about him more in our tier list update in a few days!
He didn't get any direct changes this patch (just a bug fix) so we didn't outright mention him. He's still in our overall tier list at the end though! Right around 15:50
Do you think he should be higher or lower on the list? Right now based on our data, he's sitting between A & B but this time we decided to consider him a little higher.
What other kinds of videos would you want to see from the Tracklock Team?
Crazy Quality on the VIds Boys
Thank you!
I noticed that this video is very similar to the one from 'The Deadlock Meta'. They also mention how tier lists can vary at rank. Keep up the great work!
Thank you! 100% Tier Lists are subjective in nature. With the help of the Data we track on the Tracklock website, and the tracklock competitive team who places well on the leaderboards, we try to be as objective as possible when we present our data! As we release more videos and update our algorithms, we'll be able to dial in the information much more effectively as well!
Are these based purely on wr? I feel like some of these are way off, at least for higher ranks
Win rate is a factor in our tier list, but it's not the whole basis for where heroes land. We have our own Tracklock team that consists of multiple top 100 players, and consult them after the patch to determine where we believe heroes will fall. Then we weigh their thoughts against what we are seeing with Win/Pick rate and make our best guess (because this video is being worked on the day the patch drops, there isn't much immediate data yet). After the publishing of the video, we continue to analyze and work with top players to create a revised version that will go out about a week after the first video goes live.
really high quality video, great production, congratulations!
Thank you!
initiate player tier list
I'm sorry it feels that way. We're still dialing in our process of how we judge a heroes tier for future videos, so maybe we'll be closer aligned going forward!
I’ve been playing deadlock for 48 hours, and have 0 way of comparing champs to pre-patch.
However-
This video felt like it came from a major (100k-1m+ subs) gaming channel. Fantastic quality, easy to follow, and packed with information. Hope deadlock blows up, if so, your channel will too!
Consider my sub an investment ;) 🤣
Thanks so much for the kind words, I hope your investment will 100x 💙
Very high quality. Subbed!
Thanks!
Weird video overall. Ur ranking seems to be based strictly on heroes winrates, but u try to justify it with their personal changlogs, while most heroes are more affected by item changes, overall gamelpay mechanic tweaks, meta, and just popularity.
So in the end, u just recite some of patchnotes and obfuscate hero winrate with a tier ranking, while intro promises some form of meaningful analysis.
Thanks for the comment, I'd like to go into our analysis on why heroes rank the way they do. Tracklock has some top leaderboard players on our competitive team, when the patch notes dropped we consult with our team and then weigh the suggestions they make against our Tier List Data on the Tracklock website. Which is based on Winrate/Pickrate across different ranks though as of recording this data is not a full picture yet., so we make our best judgement calls with a plan to update any meaningful increases or decreases early next week. We know that Item changes affect the heroes just as much as their personal changes. At the time of writing/recording however, those changes haven't always come fully to fruition which can make it difficult to include them in all cases. It's something we'll look to include more in the future!
Going forward there are two other things we want to improve. First, I'll do a better job explaining our methodology up front to make things more clear. Secondly, we'll be refining the feedback changes to be more concise about why a hero is changing or staying the same with some direct quotes from the team.
Thanks again!
@@tracklock_gggreat comment man
'transitioning to pocket' ahah nice one
Dynamo B tier? And how do these changes move bebop up a whole rank?
Dynamo's ult got hit pretty hard this patch, with the mix of Cooldown Reduction Nerfs and his ultimate getting a longer cooldown on top of it, he's one of the hardest heroes hit right now. Don't get me wrong, his ult will still be very impactful but it will also need to be used much more carefully.
As for Bebop, we aren't judging a heroes tier ranking purely against the changes made in the patch itself, but also against how they've been performing on average, as well as how the heroes around them have changed. So while he got smaller tweaks this time around, he's been seeing an uptick in performance even before this patch, thus moving him to the A-tier.
What a lot of deadlock videos, really like your style
Maybe you should incorporate item changes to the tier list rankings. You're stating Vinicta had nerfs yet you ranked her higher. Maybe you should consider the item choices players use with those characters. You might want to also factor in things like soul changes and even map tweaks too
Great suggestions! We're definitely looking at how we can improve the format going forward, and a big one is talking about how item changes also affect heroes.
Sweet! Love these videos.. very digestible and easy to follow.
Definitely enjoying this patch for now. The game wide cooldown nerf has been welcomed
Where would you put paradox?🙏
Right now Paradox sits in our B-Tier but is slowly rising. Playing her as a utility hero that swaps the enemy carries seems to be her best options right now!
this is the offcial tracklock? like the website?
Yes! We've officially started our own youtube channel that will be using the data from the site to better inform videos!
@@tracklock_gg great! i look forward to your content!
Very odd tierlist. Do you base this just on winrate? That seems to be the corroborative argument at every change.
Tierlists should, in my opinion, be considered based on the same echolon as Icefrog balances his games: their potential, and potential only. That means 99% of the playerbase should be completely irrelevant for judging the strength of any hero, making winrate in general an obsolete metric.
Thanks for the comment, I'd like to go into our analysis on why heroes rank the way they do. Tracklock has some top leaderboard players on our competitive team, when the patch notes dropped we consult with our team and then weigh the suggestions they make against our Tier List Data on the Tracklock website. Which is based on Winrate/Pickrate across different ranks though as of recording this data is not a full picture yet., so we make our best judgement calls with a plan to update any meaningful increases or decreases early next week. We also know that Item changes affect the heroes just as much as their personal changes. At the time of writing/recording however, those changes haven't always come fully to fruition which can make it difficult to include them in all cases. It's something we'll look to include more in the future!
Going forward there are two other things we want to improve. First, I'll do a better job explaining our methodology up front to make things more clear. Secondly, we'll be refining the feedback changes to be more concise about why a hero is changing or staying the same with some direct quotes from the team, and not just comparing them to their winrates necessarily.
@@tracklock_gg You can do that, but I think your methodology right now, at least from the little you convey and present on your website, is completely useless.
To illustrate: in Dota 60-80% of the ranks are filled with people who really do not know what they are doing. They get into the game, want to play one hero and don't care for any drafting implication. This is the "casual" crowd, always the largest in any game even in ranked. In these ranks typical pubstompers like Broodmother and Meepo dominate games, and as a result their winrates are inflated to caricatural degrees. These heroes aren't "good" in the conventional sense, they are "good against bad, uncoordinated players".
Icefrog never balances his game around these people because they don't actually play the game it was intended to be played. They just kind-of exist in it. Just like how you would not redesign a puzzle game because a toddler uses the pieces as a non-functional crayon.
We appreciate the feedback! My opinion on tier lists is that they need to appeal to the part player base that will benefit from them the most. In the majority of cases, that's the mid-low end of the skill brackets, as people in Eternus for example, aren't looking to watch a tier list video to know who to pick in their next game and/or tournament. Using our averaged out data for skill, and the influence of players that we consult, we aim to reach that middle-low demographic with these lists. We have the ability to sort our data on the Tracklock website, by ranks and as such can see the definitive shifts in heroes and their win/pick rates.
Also, I'm always open to other ideas or methodologies when it comes to these lists as they are a very subjective thing to provide. Since you are using Dota2 as an example, I'd greatly appreciate it if you would provide me a link to a tier list you feel best represents the methodology you prefer tier lists be based on. I don't guarantee it'll change how we view/produce these going forward, but I'm open to learn more about it! If you don't have time for that, no worries at all, we still appreciate the feedback you've provided so far!
New Mirage scarab does not work as u state. Hitting scarab second time reapplies health drain. Now u can do almost 3 times more damage to a single target with scarabs, just need to apply them with about 4 sec delay.
You are totally right! The damage doesn't immediately re-apply if you spam it but waiting a few seconds and throwing another scarab refreshes the drain over time, not just the duration the debuff takes place. We'll do some more in-depth testing going forward on changes like this to ensure we aren't misreporting changes. Thanks!
sweet videos guys! keep it up... i really like the idea of more guide type videos since as good as these videos are, as soon as the next patch drops this is just super dated
Thanks! Guides are definitely something we are exploring. We've got the Pocket guide we are working on for later this week, and from there we'll expand into more heroes and builds. In addition, these tier lists will be released each patch to make sure the data is as up to date as possible! Our goal is to release them as quickly as possible after each patch (with data supporting our findings) so it's relevant for as long as possible.
@ sounds good! you guys really have something special here keep it up :]
In reality, Seven ult got nerfed not buffed,
Infernus is A right now
Infernus is definitely climbing fast! His buffs and some item changes have given him much more favour than we expected, we're keeping an eye on his performance overall and will talk about him more in our tier list update in a few days!
where shiv at?
He didn't get any direct changes this patch (just a bug fix) so we didn't outright mention him. He's still in our overall tier list at the end though! Right around 15:50
Nice video
Thank you!
Bebop in A tier 😂😂😂 are you smocking crack
Do you think he should be higher or lower on the list? Right now based on our data, he's sitting between A & B but this time we decided to consider him a little higher.