Great idea! Thanks for sharing it. I currently have a traditional leg vise and pin. It certainly gets tedious moving the pin for each new width. This is certainly something I'm going to further explore.
Personally I'd be willing to add an additional crosbrace to my bench to utilize his method with my existing pin board even. That is one possible aspect of this I really like. I suppose you could also try the wedge on the floor method too without much fuss.
Jip, still very happy with it. Tips: Make sure you use that low friction tape. Use a STOUT bar below the stretcher - it MUST NOT FLEX. Use a STRONG joint between the bar and the chop. Wedged through mortice and tenon joint preferably. Play around with a "wedged" ramp below the stretcher to get the correct "toe-in" on the jaw of the vice.
Interesting, very interesting! A very useful video and it seems more elegant and simple than using a wedge on the floor, the hole board and other means I've seen, some of which are quite elaborate. I've seen, in an old book, a diagonal going up to bottom of bench surface too, same idea though. Diagonal on each side of the vise so you need not drill into your leg or vise although some let it into the vise. I wonder if a big dowel through a round hole would work so long as it touched crosbrace at bottom like yours? I'm not such a traditionalist and a round hole is easier. Your thoughts?
Great idea, it is not often I see something new in the world of workbench building. If you ran the guide instead not against the stretcher, but against an insert on the stretcher, one that could be magnetically attached for example, or otherwise removed - then you would be able to get a non-parallel angle in the vise, if needed. Instead of only parallel. That tape you have to make the thing run smooth, instead of tape it could be a rotating cam, then you could dial in the angle you want - parallel, or any other angle. Needed, at times.
Thank you David, the guide is running on a mild steel flat bar insert that is screwed to the bottom of the stretcher. I see that when tightening it, the bottom moves in just a tad too much. I will add a few washers under the flat bar to bring it out of parallel (the chop will angle away at the bottom) and then it should clamp up nice and parallel. Will check it tonight and let you know.
Hi David, it held up perfectly. Still works as well as the day I made it (slightly better actually since I tweaked it a bit with a "ramp" underneath the stretcher to get a better toe-in). But I am only a hobby woodworker, so it has not worked very hard. But the cross bar is very stout, and the joint into the jaw very strong, so I think it will last for many more years to come.
Beautiful. Do you think the distance between the parallel guide and screw is crucial to it's succes? I'd like to convert my vise. But mine doesn't reach the floor. The distance between parallel guide and screw is only 22 cm...
You're welcome, Pedro. Have you seen old benches that does not use the pin? Can you please send me a photo or link, please? I never seen an old one without a pin.
@@jcwoodworx-corneeldutoit3419 i saw this on in Rex Krueger video: ua-cam.com/video/zcq1LQq08lk/v-deo.htmlm38s and now i notice that the mortice for the guide is bellow the leg. And the linear bearing method uses a steel rod that does the same thing but its to much "tecnology" for a workbench imo
It's great to see people like you experimenting and finding ways to improve upon (otherwise good) existing technology. I couldn't help but notice the thread on the screw; how wide is it - and are we so lucky that you have a link to where a tap-and-die can be bought from ? The largest I can find near me, is a 38mm diameter set, which is still fairly good. It seems like your thread is approximately 50mm (2 inches in diameter).
Hi there, the screw is 64 mm and I made a jig to cut the thread with a router. The only Tap and Die of that size that I know of is from Fine Tools in Germany. I will be making a video of my screw making process in a few week's time, so please subscribe that you get notified when I have done that.
Hi Neville, I suppose it does, but my bench's legs are quite stout so I certainly do not expect it to negatively affect the strength so much that it will cause an issue. I still have c 60 mm of tenon from the bottom front stretcher into the leg. And it is draw-bored as well.
Is there a risk that you might break the parallel guide where the guide meets the chop(vice)? Will the mortice-tenon joint which the parallel guide and vice chop hold over time?
Hi S. Ali, I suppose it is possible, but as you can see I used a very stout parallel guide, and Leadwood is a very strong wood. I used a blind wedged mortice and tenon joint so the wood will have to break, that joint will not come apart. And if it does, I will probably retrofit a criss-cross to test that system...
@@jcwoodworx-corneeldutoit3419 this is more reliable than a criss cross in my opinion. If you want the criss cross to work properly, it has to be as long as possible. Once you open the the criss cross past half way, it really struggles to close fully as there is a nasty resistance at the half way point. If you have a small criss cross, your capacity will be limited. Just giving you a heads up if you wish to go that route. This is a great concept and you have executed it Wonderfully!!
Thank for the heads-up @@mohdalisyed. It must be noted that this design is also not perfect. My chop and screw combination is very heavy (I think it is 12 kg if I remember correctly). While clamping borrow pieces (up to 150 mm), it is no such a big issue because the weight of the screw and parallel guide at the back sort of balances it out. But when I open it wider, that weight makes it more difficult to open and close. A simple solution is to lift it up a bit with my free hand, but it is not ideal.
Curious how that is attached to the chop (if that's the correct word). I would think that's a lot of pressure for just screws or something. Really like this idea.
Hi Scott, the parallel guide it attached to the chop with a wedged blind mortice and tenon joint. It is a very strong joint. Check it out on Google / UA-cam.
@@jcwoodworx-corneeldutoit3419 Thank you for the response. This is just brilliant by the way. I'm assuming you've still had no issues. No having to buy a super expensive scissor thing or always changing that pin. LOVE this. thanks so much
@@scottroy6195, you're welcome. I must say, I have noticed that it does rack too much to my liking when I clamp wide boards, even though the clamping pressure is still adequate. I will still see if I can tweak it a bit at the bottom to see if I can reduce that racking. PS: a friend of mine made his own scissor supports with 16mm x 50 mm flat bar. If you have a friend that does metal working, it should be easy enough. Also check out Pask Makes - he made his Pinless Leg Vice by using angle iron.
Most excellent solution! You could put a roller wheel at the end on the top side vs wear pad. The system could work like a drawer roller system vs anti friction tape application. The tighter the tolerances the less movement in the moving jaw face with respect to the fixed jaw face. Another solution is (using you fix) to have see how much movement and make a pivoting jaw on the movable jaw pad, that pivots and keeps jaw face and work being clamped all parallel to the fixed Jaw plane! Less clamping pressure will be required on the screw, thus less movement in the clamping system. But your spot on in your evaluation! Great job! Funny how a lot of folks run out and want to build a bench but don't stop to evaluate its functionality or you just build a copy of the plans the guy in front of them did! Roubo and others are not God's or cause that's how the design was done! That is the "monkey see monkey do" mentality! Be my guess to follow that path! There is a guy that came to your conclusion also and did rollers(fixed casters). Another used a wedge he kicks into place between the bench leg an the movable jaw. I would hate to adjust the pin or kick a wedge each time down there, such a PIA! If I were to build a leg vice I would take this approach at the onset. Also to open and close faster and smoother the vice, set your screw handle in it center to spin like a prop. Put a finger tightening lock screw (½ Socket head bolt) down the center of the screw head to engage the handle. Once handle is in place, spin it like a prop or one finger spinning your vice will not wobble, and you can spin your screw faster. You even find that most of the time that length of handle is all your reall need to use and secure your work! All my vices are centered handled 95 percent of the time for most work done. Like the journey your on! Steven Columbus Michigan USA 🇺🇸
Hi Steven thanks for the comprehensive reply. Jip, by adding two rollers (one at the top, front of the bar, and one in the frame at the bottom, it will work exactly like a drawer runner - thanks for the analogy, I did not think about it that way. And yes, it should definitely be much smoother than the wear pad. Maybe I will do the change one day. 😉👍
That's an excellent example of a simple solution through understanding the nature of the problem rather than just the symptom. Well done.
Nice simple and greatly overlooked.
Thank you for posting.... 😍😍
Great visual explanation, thank you.
Let’s be honest : maybe the best I have seen. Bravo.
Thanks for this video. I'm building my pinless leg vise this way.
I'm also building a workbench; this certainly solves the leg vise problem
No time wasting, excellent result, realistic for weekend warriors who need a massive vice for low cost. Much appreciated 🙏
I know this has been mentioned by many others before, but this is really an ingenious idea!
Fantastic solution !!!! You are a Craftsman Sir!!
Awesome work, I've been planning my vise out and weighing all the different options. This is by far the best! Thank you
I always wondered if that would work. Now I'm going to try it. Thanks for the detailed explanation.
Thanks great idea for leg vice built
Great idea! Thanks for sharing it. I currently have a traditional leg vise and pin. It certainly gets tedious moving the pin for each new width. This is certainly something I'm going to further explore.
Personally I'd be willing to add an additional crosbrace to my bench to utilize his method with my existing pin board even.
That is one possible aspect of this I really like.
I suppose you could also try the wedge on the floor method too without much fuss.
That is impressive sir!
Tx Jeff. I have modified the ramp a bit at the bottom to reduce racking. But a year later and it still works very well.
Very good idea man. Thank you.
Very clever solution. Thank you.
uh um, that's genious. Will be in my next bench, thanks for sharing.
You're welcome Scott. Please remember to show us!
Good idea
Bravo!
Brilliant. Well done sir.
So, after 3 years of use are you still happy with it? any tips on implementing it?
Jip, still very happy with it.
Tips: Make sure you use that low friction tape.
Use a STOUT bar below the stretcher - it MUST NOT FLEX.
Use a STRONG joint between the bar and the chop. Wedged through mortice and tenon joint preferably.
Play around with a "wedged" ramp below the stretcher to get the correct "toe-in" on the jaw of the vice.
That was Brilliant! Very well explained 👏 👌 👍 😊
Great, love it.
very nice. thanks for the lesson
Great explanation, thanks for sharing!
You're most welcome. Hope you enjoyed it.
Interesting, very interesting!
A very useful video and it seems more elegant and simple than using a wedge on the floor, the hole board and other means I've seen, some of which are quite elaborate.
I've seen, in an old book, a diagonal going up to bottom of bench surface too, same idea though. Diagonal on each side of the vise so you need not drill into your leg or vise although some let it into the vise.
I wonder if a big dowel through a round hole would work so long as it touched crosbrace at bottom like yours?
I'm not such a traditionalist and a round hole is easier.
Your thoughts?
Great idea, it is not often I see something new in the world of workbench building. If you ran the guide instead not against the stretcher, but against an insert on the stretcher, one that could be magnetically attached for example, or otherwise removed - then you would be able to get a non-parallel angle in the vise, if needed. Instead of only parallel. That tape you have to make the thing run smooth, instead of tape it could be a rotating cam, then you could dial in the angle you want - parallel, or any other angle. Needed, at times.
Thank you David, the guide is running on a mild steel flat bar insert that is screwed to the bottom of the stretcher. I see that when tightening it, the bottom moves in just a tad too much. I will add a few washers under the flat bar to bring it out of parallel (the chop will angle away at the bottom) and then it should clamp up nice and parallel. Will check it tonight and let you know.
David Stephenson, I wish you had a picture of what your describing bc it sounds intriguing but I’m having trouble following along.
@@jcwoodworx-corneeldutoit3419 conclusion …?
@@ikust007, I have added a few washers and it is better, but still a bit of racking. However, it works even with the bit of racking
Wanted to ask, how has this held up after a few years of use?
Hi David, it held up perfectly. Still works as well as the day I made it (slightly better actually since I tweaked it a bit with a "ramp" underneath the stretcher to get a better toe-in).
But I am only a hobby woodworker, so it has not worked very hard.
But the cross bar is very stout, and the joint into the jaw very strong, so I think it will last for many more years to come.
Great solve mate, will definitely be incorporating this into my first workbench
Cool Matthew! Let us know how it goes.
@@jcwoodworx-corneeldutoit3419 how can we share…?
Thats very clever. You've got a new subscriber here. Thanks for sharing my friend.
Genius
Brilliant! Why did I mess around with criss-cross!?
Beautiful. Do you think the distance between the parallel guide and screw is crucial to it's succes? I'd like to convert my vise. But mine doesn't reach the floor. The distance between parallel guide and screw is only 22 cm...
now thats a video that answers my question of why didnt the old workbenchs used that damm pin board xD thanks mate!
You're welcome, Pedro. Have you seen old benches that does not use the pin? Can you please send me a photo or link, please? I never seen an old one without a pin.
@@jcwoodworx-corneeldutoit3419 i saw this on in Rex Krueger video: ua-cam.com/video/zcq1LQq08lk/v-deo.htmlm38s and now i notice that the mortice for the guide is bellow the leg. And the linear bearing method uses a steel rod that does the same thing but its to much "tecnology" for a workbench imo
Thank you! Most useful!)
It's great to see people like you experimenting and finding ways to improve upon (otherwise good) existing technology.
I couldn't help but notice the thread on the screw; how wide is it - and are we so lucky that you have a link to where a tap-and-die can be bought from ?
The largest I can find near me, is a 38mm diameter set, which is still fairly good. It seems like your thread is approximately 50mm (2 inches in diameter).
Hi there, the screw is 64 mm and I made a jig to cut the thread with a router. The only Tap and Die of that size that I know of is from Fine Tools in Germany. I will be making a video of my screw making process in a few week's time, so please subscribe that you get notified when I have done that.
@@jcwoodworx-corneeldutoit3419 Thank you, that sounds awesome. I look forward to seeing this. =)
A video of the whole vise making process would be amazing.
Does the mortise for the parallel guide affect the strength of the stretcher/leg joint?
Hi Neville, I suppose it does, but my bench's legs are quite stout so I certainly do not expect it to negatively affect the strength so much that it will cause an issue. I still have c 60 mm of tenon from the bottom front stretcher into the leg. And it is draw-bored as well.
Love it! Smart!
Is there a risk that you might break the parallel guide where the guide meets the chop(vice)? Will the mortice-tenon joint which the parallel guide and vice chop hold over time?
Hi S. Ali, I suppose it is possible, but as you can see I used a very stout parallel guide, and Leadwood is a very strong wood. I used a blind wedged mortice and tenon joint so the wood will have to break, that joint will not come apart.
And if it does, I will probably retrofit a criss-cross to test that system...
@@jcwoodworx-corneeldutoit3419 this is more reliable than a criss cross in my opinion. If you want the criss cross to work properly, it has to be as long as possible. Once you open the the criss cross past half way, it really struggles to close fully as there is a nasty resistance at the half way point. If you have a small criss cross, your capacity will be limited. Just giving you a heads up if you wish to go that route.
This is a great concept and you have executed it Wonderfully!!
Thank for the heads-up @@mohdalisyed. It must be noted that this design is also not perfect. My chop and screw combination is very heavy (I think it is 12 kg if I remember correctly). While clamping borrow pieces (up to 150 mm), it is no such a big issue because the weight of the screw and parallel guide at the back sort of balances it out. But when I open it wider, that weight makes it more difficult to open and close. A simple solution is to lift it up a bit with my free hand, but it is not ideal.
That's really cool!
Curious how that is attached to the chop (if that's the correct word). I would think that's a lot of pressure for just screws or something. Really like this idea.
Hi Scott, the parallel guide it attached to the chop with a wedged blind mortice and tenon joint. It is a very strong joint. Check it out on Google / UA-cam.
@@jcwoodworx-corneeldutoit3419 Thank you for the response. This is just brilliant by the way. I'm assuming you've still had no issues. No having to buy a super expensive scissor thing or always changing that pin. LOVE this. thanks so much
@@scottroy6195, you're welcome. I must say, I have noticed that it does rack too much to my liking when I clamp wide boards, even though the clamping pressure is still adequate. I will still see if I can tweak it a bit at the bottom to see if I can reduce that racking. PS: a friend of mine made his own scissor supports with 16mm x 50 mm flat bar. If you have a friend that does metal working, it should be easy enough.
Also check out Pask Makes - he made his Pinless Leg Vice by using angle iron.
Brilliant!
If I may say: Nylon or UHMW inserted at the end . Or just a hard piece of wood well oiled :)
Jip, and we'll waxed.
Genius!
Most excellent solution! You could put a roller wheel at the end on the top side vs wear pad. The system could work like a drawer roller system vs anti friction tape application.
The tighter the tolerances the less movement in the moving jaw face with respect to the fixed jaw face.
Another solution is (using you fix) to have see how much movement and make a pivoting jaw on the movable jaw pad, that pivots and keeps jaw face and work being clamped all parallel to the fixed Jaw plane! Less clamping pressure will be required on the screw, thus less movement in the clamping system.
But your spot on in your evaluation! Great job!
Funny how a lot of folks run out and want to build a bench but don't stop to evaluate its functionality or you just build a copy of the plans the guy in front of them did! Roubo and others are not God's or cause that's how the design was done! That is the "monkey see monkey do" mentality! Be my guess to follow that path!
There is a guy that came to your conclusion also and did rollers(fixed casters). Another used a wedge he kicks into place between the bench leg an the movable jaw. I would hate to adjust the pin or kick a wedge each time down there, such a PIA!
If I were to build a leg vice I would take this approach at the onset.
Also to open and close faster and smoother the vice, set your screw handle in it center to spin like a prop. Put a finger tightening lock screw (½ Socket head bolt) down the center of the screw head to engage the handle. Once handle is in place, spin it like a prop or one finger spinning your vice will not wobble, and you can spin your screw faster. You even find that most of the time that length of handle is all your reall need to use and secure your work! All my vices are centered handled 95 percent of the time for most work done.
Like the journey your on!
Steven Columbus Michigan USA 🇺🇸
Hi Steven thanks for the comprehensive reply. Jip, by adding two rollers (one at the top, front of the bar, and one in the frame at the bottom, it will work exactly like a drawer runner - thanks for the analogy, I did not think about it that way. And yes, it should definitely be much smoother than the wear pad.
Maybe I will do the change one day. 😉👍