I like the advice to quit when you reach the point of being unable to regulate emotions. I also think that the goal is to increase our window of tolerance so that we don’t have to quit. It’s kind of a balance
Before I even saw villian's hand first thing I thought was 88's. MAYBE AK/A8/K8. These bad players make mistakes with their bet sizes. You can usually tell, and folding A5 in this spot is NOT a bad fold considering the size of the shove. Sure, you may get bluffed 1 time out of 10, but this definitely looked like a fold. If you want to avoid coolers, REMEMBER. You can fold ANY hand. There will always be another one, and if winning/losing this one hand makes that much of a difference, you should be rolled better. When you've shown strength and your opponent comes over the top you should hear ALARM bells ringing. ESPECIALLY WITH FISH. Don't get caught in the heat of it, fold the damn hand. DON'T PAY THEM OFF. Let other fish pay them off and then take all the money from them. If they do this kind of crap bluff, you'll have a much better opportunity with a hand better than 2 pair. This hand reminds me of the old "limp all in." Gee, I wonder what they have... I would have only called this raise with a set of AA's or KK's. AK isn't strong enough to call that jam. Set of 5's is a rough spot. 2 pair? Give me a break.
first instinct is fold personally. unless i know villain is on tilt (ie. theyve been shoving a lot) this bet is clearly repping a set. easy way to read this is by looking at their aggression factor. most whales have a low AF (1-2) meaning they rarely bluff, so this kind of shove is usually a huge hand like a set.
It’s never a bluff. The question is whether the whale can be overvaluing a worse hand often enough. I think so, but you’re right that’s it’s probably close. Given his insanely high VPIP he can certainly have K8, K5 and even 85. I’d discount AA/KK/AK since his PFR is 16 which is small compared to his VPIP but still not 0 and he didn’t raise preflop. We block 55 down to 1 combo. So it’s really only A8 and 88 I’m worried about.
@@nicks210684 in my experience they dont ship it with 2 pair, usually min re-raise if anything. fold vs call is close either way. having a better read on the player by sitting at the table for a while makes it a lot easier obviously
Bad beats are better, than being lucky. Because if you got "bad-beated" you were the favourite. Just keep playing and the variance will even out to you favour. I prefer to be the favourite in the long run.
I understand what you are saying, but in the heat of the moment, when you feel like a fool and loser at the same time and you've been working so hard and then someone reaches in and pulls out your heart with an 8 on the turn or a 3 on the river. At that moment in time generalizations about life and variance just don't cut it. A person needs to train to take this, like a boxer learning to take body shots. I find I even hate going back and reviewing the carnage. Ego is a big biatch.
Yea.. He's right folks. I got run over and over.. sets flopped against me in 4 times in 3 big tournaments and I had it in good each time. Brutal suckouts, bad day. Put the last 17$ on cash after I was out of all tournaments and sucked out on again with My AA, guy had 77 and he flopped a set. I then raged and self excluded permanently. Didn't really think it was permanent tho I guess. Now I can no longer play ever and it sucks.
Good subject. It happened to me the other day. I lost 3 buyins in a matter of 20 minutes and I just couldn't shake the last one off. So I got off every table and walked away. I planned to come back in an hour or so, but my mind wasn't right. So I sat out the rest of the day and part of the next. Best advice I've heard on the matter is sit out until you know you can handle losing your stack again.
If playing a huge fish, remind yourself that you will have a lot of opportunities on future hands to get back money. I hate it when the fish grabs my money and calls it a night though.
Thanks for the videos Nathan. I read crushing the micros and have actually made a profit in 2nl for the first time over the course of this month. All due to you bro! Your a legend!
In low stakes I find that when an ace hits the board on the flop, it tends to check around and so in order for me to attack their wide calling range and draws I check raise infrequently. I'm also a bit of a nit, so if I raise this big pre-flop from the small blind, I have to imagine that my opponent at the very least understands that I have an ace in my range and so is not likely to bet into me. More like a broadway draw or a medium/small pair looking for a set. And as frequent enjoyer of bad beats from attacking weakness in the micros, I would not feel overly strong here and would love a fold. Now if I had a pair of 5s, and he was the pre flop aggresor, then I'm sure I would check raise... and still lose.
Most bad beats don't get me tilted, but when my opponent instantly leaves the table after the bad beat, I get a little tilted. I rarely leave immediately, I usually stick close to my time limit, or my hand limit for the session. The times I leave immediately, is based on who else is at the table, if there are aggressive three betters behind me, I leave immediately. If it is a drooling fish table, I usually re-group and get my stack back. I think there's value in calm slow breathing, and intentionally pausing on every action, and training my mind to be rational even though I know I'm a bit tilted.
Do we really want to start bluff catching with two pair vs an 89/18/1 ultra loose passive fish? He can have a ton of worse hands that’ll call a bet but won’t bet themselves. He called the AK5 flop with 88 so he’s got a ton of Kx and Ax combos that will call a bet. And all his stupid gutshot hands like QJ, QT, JT, 32, 34, 45 get to see the river for free.
@@nicks210684 You're right, but he also has a lot of even worse garbage that won't call the turn bet. And sometimes we just end up creating a bigger pot for when he does hit his gut shot. All I'm saying is, sometimes I don't go for the home run in a spot like this. Being out of position is one of the most important considerations. If it was top two pair it would also be different.
Reminds me of when I stacked a fish 300bb eff stacks with top set on a board like this, lead shoves a gutshot on turn like huge overbet, get there on the river I thought this would happen that he would show up with 23o
Omfg the exact same thing just happened to me, I flopped top set with jacks ,only the mf shoved on flop with bottom pair of 4 and backdoor straight and got there on the River with 45 off suit. Which lead me to this video.
@@songlinwang8982 Happens alot recently idk what is going on with atleast Pokerstars, all theese massive whales come from nowhere at MT turbo SNGs, Canada Germany and Brazil like they are everywhere, calling jams PF with hands like QJo for 100BB eff and always gets there, call tripple barrel with a gutshot risknig their whole stack and always gets there on river, its so funny and I have never seen theese many whales in this timespan since the Covid 19 outbreak. Only downside is when your playing whales frequently you will have alot of downswings and big upswings and theese downswings can last for sometime before you get to a massive heather when playing vs theese kinds of player, they are lucky and thats why poker is still alive.
@@Smurfen249 exactly, especially the last part. I just need to learn to not get tilted when the downswing happens. Otherwise it’s all over. Even if I stopped playing right away after that hand it still affected my mood. It doesn’t even matter how small the stakes are
@@songlinwang8982 Bad beats occour ALOT at the micros, as long as you get it in good you shouldnt care if you win or loose because it is the most profitible play and in the long run its what will make you money when they call with hands they shouldnt. Poker is a long term game and you shouldnt look at short term results, just long term results. That can help for tilting if you learn how to manage that mental part, you can't win every session just try to keep that in mind. It helped me in the past when I was hiding my bankroll in the cashier and didn't look on it anymore exept maybe once a month to see how I was doing. If you play games you are beating and bankrolled for you can do this since you will have no reason to look at your bankroll for some time. If you jump up in stakes I know aswell how it is, you keep looking at ur BR everyday to see how much you lost that day :D
ya i woulda avoided it by not palying A5o in the small blind :P. But I get the point of the video and it's something I'm struggling with right now. When they blast me into my monster hand I can't for some reason fold and avoid the bad beat. Even though, as you say and I definitely know, fish aren't going to shove with anything less than a monster. I think I need to look at the history mathematically. Is it worth the call. There's like 2 situations that happen. Either they're shoving a monster which hurts, or they're bluffing and I catch them for a big pot. It's hard to do and will rely on situation, but realistically, I get bad beat by this sort of crap (monster hand dominated by a fish) way more often than I catch out a bluff. I think I need to learn to fold. you should make a video with a ton of bad beats like this called "When Fish Attack!" quick edit: thinking about it more, it's more often than not my top pair or 2 pair vs their monster. Those hands I think I can learn to get away from when fish attack
Hi Nathan, I was reading all articles from your blog and I have only one doubt about your chart suggestion of 20% of hands to play. I don't know if you can anser me, but I'll be really happy if does. Here: You told that we can be very tight on nl2/nl5, ok. And did you present a chart with 20% of range, right? Is it mean that I will play 20% in all positions? Or I need play, I don't know, 8% of EP and 20% will be the max when I'm on Button? Thx in advanced!
2 years late but, 12% EP and 40% btn (steal), that's the tight spot. On MP you play like 17% of hands, from CO 28% if you want to steal or tighter if there Is a maniac after you, and 40% btn almost. In this spot A5o had to limp behind because it's a bad hand against 0 fold equity 90% vpip. And if he shoves 200bb you know that 2 pairs arent enough. This is not a bad beat but a bad call, preflop and postflop. I've been there so many times too and its 100% heros fault
Sometimes this spot can be avoided. Pre-flop fine. On the flop fine. However, on the turn, often I will check this while out of position and possibly bluff catch. There are no flush draws, and most straight draws are probably just gut shots. If he has an Ace or a King, hero will still get one more street anyways. Also, by checking this turn, out of position, the fish might bet and give away a ton of information based on his bet sizes and or timing tells. Also he might make the mistake of checking behind with a monster hand. As we saw in this hand, the fish did give away a ton of information by going all in over a large turn bet. I think he probably makes some kind of mistake if it is checked to him on the turn. He probably doesn't know what to do when playing this deep.
The only ways you can try and prevent this beat would be to bet even bigger on the flop to get villain to fold or to fold to the raise on the turn. But either would be scared money and bad play in the long run.
OK man, I read your book and now I am your huge fan. Thank you for your advices, my poker improved a lot but now you are saying things that contradict your book. For example isn't hero supposed to fold this hand? When I get paid on the flop then I start thinking is villain having something better and if I have two pair usually I would bet again but after the raise my assumption was that he hit a set on the flop maybe fives or "hidden" kings. I've noticed also the most brutal bad beats happen quite often because I played out of position or with a hand that is not supposed to be played at all. Last time I lost was that I raised from early position with 33, I hit set on the flop and bet, I got raised and went all in to scare him because there was a flush draw. Turns out to be set over set. So especially on pokerstars where the RNG is rigged to have huge pots usually the software assists the player who played their hand correctly. Also if you make a fold like to fold your aces on the flop the software always rewards you two or three hands later with a nut hand and a fish on the table :D
Hey lliya I am glad my book helped you! The reason this hand is "different" for me is because it is 4 handed and versus a huge whale. Also, we have a hand that is ahead of many other value hands that recs love to flip out with here such as AK, AQ, AJ, K8, 85, K5.
The issue here is not by owns fault ( not thinking what my opponent may have) $3 bet massive overbet on pot I would at least consider what has he would have something decent. Alot of players will only be interested in what they have and how they were suppose to win the hand because that what suppose to happen so it's fair right? but unhappy when things don't. It no different to real life, life is unfair too.
What? This is not a bad beat at all A5 should have been folded first and for most when facing that all-in as you said you don't know what the player has and the 3rd worst paired A would advise a more cautious play here for me anyway. BTW the 88 is the favourite to win the hand preflop, roughly 69% against the hero hand everything would tell you the opponent has trips when that 8 comes over, and if you can't surmise that from the stack size facing a bad paired board on the flop would be a fold to most bet sizes; what can beat it A8, AK, it's the worst hand on the flop when you compare it to AK or Ax and gets worse on the turn. Would have been a bad beat for the pocket 8's. How exactly is it a bad beat because the player has a huge range of hands come on teach poker that makes sense! A5 is not even in the top 25% of good hands where as 88 is in the top 6%. Guaranteed the better player won that hand, even if the hero plays 20% of hands the unknown percentage of hands both players play tells me A5 is the fish here!
8 combos of sets I beat 0/8 combos and 2-pair hands I beat 21/33 combos. I have 51.22% chance that I beat him, this is basically a flip. With AK it's 80.49% and a much better call.
Well played hand, and yes this is definitely a call with second best 2 pair, even though it's never a bluff a 90 VPIP guy can have any lower 2 pair. Even if you make the assumption that he's only raising turn because the 8 hit him, K8 and 85 are more likely than 88 or A8.
Agreed. And if you’ve been betting/raising him a lot he might even show up with AQ/AJ thinking “I’ll show this guy for pushing me around all the time” Which obviously makes no sense but fish gonna fish.
@@nicks210684 Yep, these guys don't bluff but they overplay hands a lot. Why do they keep checkraising AT on a T high board against the preflop 3better? We'll never know :=)
I'm sorry but on what planet is the turn a call? Population at 2nl are stations and don't overbluff 150bigs. Fold pre but as played just bet fold turn unless you have read villain bluff spews. To say otherwise is really incredibly fishy even at 2nl
I don't think i'ts profitable to call a shove here because I don't think the villain rarely have an Ax that plays that way. Max a AJo that didn't want to raise pre, or a AT, but I don't think they will shove like this most of the time in a board with no draws. I'ts really a tilt play that I just don't see enought of the time to make a profitable call. honestly, deep like this, I put him on a 88,55,A8s,A5s,K8s range.
@@BlackRain79Poker I think they would raise preflop with AT+. maybe "cold limp" like this, but that give us 54% equity (I suppose) and, still, we don't have the enough equity to call this shove
but, still, I doubt so much a raise allin like this being just a pair... actually, this is the problem to play just value on the micro, because you get into a spot like this and ask yourself if there is bluffs on the villain range. if there is, this should be always call. but we know that the villain range is so capped that we are almost always loosing in this situation. that why it's confusing to play just value on any game, because we would not be able to call this raise bet, since we just have 55 that play similarly (AK, AA, and KK will have a bigger size preflop).
PokerStars I know have it. I live in Sweden and since January 2019 European Union changed gambling laws for online in Sweden. PokerStars and the big names all have an agreement and contract with the Swedish goverment to enable us to keep playing on their site. They need to apply for a Swedish license and follow the rules of our goverement. We have a client called ".SE" on PartyPoker, 888 and PokerStars and many other bigger names. The smaller sites doesnt have any contracts or follow rules because they don't have the money or don't make enough money. The bigger names are always legit and follow goverment rules. PokerStars has 10 different clients for surthen countries and have to follow that surthen countries rules and make an agreement with the goverments to avoid being sued in court.
Hey Michael, you should always check your local laws and regulations where ever you may live. I have people from all over the world who watch my videos.
Today I had a guy call my triple barrel with a flopped third pair (75 on a QT7 board). I also had a guy call a big turn check raise on a board of Q983 with AK and no draw. Luckily in the latter case I had AThh, there were two hearts on the board and I rivered my flush lol. But I couldn’t believe the cards he turned over. So yeah....fish gonna fish lol.
@@nicks210684 I like the guy who called with AK he got a nice read on you, calling with AK isn't so bad I guess he got two overcards even with no draws I'll do the same thing lol u just got lucky! Nice play!
@@johnmalto3392 I did get lucky yes. But the thing is I’d not been getting out of line with insane aggression or crazy bluffs so no idea where he got his read from. I guess my point is that low limit recs just love to try and catch you bluffing.
I think it was a very stupid decision to call ALL-IN at the turn. I may not understand the statistics well and may be in the long run it makes sense as we would win most of the time here, but using common sense will help to understand we may not have the top hand. In the end, 2 pair is a pretty weak hand. Good hands start from a set.
Big raise out of position with junk hand, this look stupid to me, 88 played better, limp 88 to setmine definitely a money making move(raise would have been better), he float the flop in position not perfect play, but if you raise A5o you raise at least 30% of your hand and you missed the flop with many hands to make this play OK once in a while ! Then he got lucky and you made the bad call ! This is not a bad beat ! You played the hand badly !
gto range bet baby! lol i do the same thing, works much better than big bets imo because it allows you to bet the same way whether you hit or miss. at the same time there is merit in just bombing it vs fish. exploitation is def better vs fish
Okay let's go back a few videos maybe when we were discussing how maybe the game is rigged and yes rigged call it what you want the pros call it variance variance my ass they use a number generator and quote your not able to predict the outcome of what is coming next because it generates numbers randomly only to benefit the house I don't know really exactly how to explain it being in the game poker? The answer to this problem of bad beats is usually when somebody goes all in like that there's trying to tell you I'm giving you the best odds I can and doesn't matter I will beat you anyway only thing you must be prepared for is the outcome because the decision you make is the decision that you make and that's all so you have to deal with this that's all and no one should be getting upset because they made that decision because remember that was your decision! Hey Mr Black rain 79 you know I really like your s*** there's a lot of things that I make a rule of thumb about and that's what I'm hoping on getting out from you I just so I can be a little bit better and mediocre I've been playing for since 2012 something I'm still mediocre I have came myself from my bad habits I hope I don't get any new ones
Do you think it is possible to avoid bad beats? Also, check out my new video on how to deal with coolers: ua-cam.com/video/u7y1VRKtcaw/v-deo.html
I like the advice to quit when you reach the point of being unable to regulate emotions. I also think that the goal is to increase our window of tolerance so that we don’t have to quit. It’s kind of a balance
Increasing tolerance is a good point! This is something that is good to work on once you learn to quit.
Before I even saw villian's hand first thing I thought was 88's. MAYBE AK/A8/K8. These bad players make mistakes with their bet sizes. You can usually tell, and folding A5 in this spot is NOT a bad fold considering the size of the shove. Sure, you may get bluffed 1 time out of 10, but this definitely looked like a fold. If you want to avoid coolers, REMEMBER. You can fold ANY hand. There will always be another one, and if winning/losing this one hand makes that much of a difference, you should be rolled better. When you've shown strength and your opponent comes over the top you should hear ALARM bells ringing. ESPECIALLY WITH FISH. Don't get caught in the heat of it, fold the damn hand. DON'T PAY THEM OFF. Let other fish pay them off and then take all the money from them. If they do this kind of crap bluff, you'll have a much better opportunity with a hand better than 2 pair. This hand reminds me of the old "limp all in." Gee, I wonder what they have... I would have only called this raise with a set of AA's or KK's. AK isn't strong enough to call that jam. Set of 5's is a rough spot. 2 pair? Give me a break.
would expect 88 to raise preflop sometimes. Also we beat K8, K5, 85, or random nonsense that an 89/14 player will have.
first instinct is fold personally. unless i know villain is on tilt (ie. theyve been shoving a lot) this bet is clearly repping a set. easy way to read this is by looking at their aggression factor. most whales have a low AF (1-2) meaning they rarely bluff, so this kind of shove is usually a huge hand like a set.
It’s never a bluff. The question is whether the whale can be overvaluing a worse hand often enough. I think so, but you’re right that’s it’s probably close.
Given his insanely high VPIP he can certainly have K8, K5 and even 85.
I’d discount AA/KK/AK since his PFR is 16 which is small compared to his VPIP but still not 0 and he didn’t raise preflop.
We block 55 down to 1 combo. So it’s really only A8 and 88 I’m worried about.
@@nicks210684 in my experience they dont ship it with 2 pair, usually min re-raise if anything. fold vs call is close either way. having a better read on the player by sitting at the table for a while makes it a lot easier obviously
Just being on a tilt-abscence from poker due to SEVERAL hands like these. Sad and glad to hear it happens to everyone 😁
Bad beats are better, than being lucky. Because if you got "bad-beated" you were the favourite. Just keep playing and the variance will even out to you favour. I prefer to be the favourite in the long run.
Well said SS!
I understand what you are saying, but in the heat of the moment, when you feel like a fool and loser at the same time and you've been working so hard and then someone reaches in and pulls out your heart with an 8 on the turn or a 3 on the river. At that moment in time generalizations about life and variance just don't cut it. A person needs to train to take this, like a boxer learning to take body shots. I find I even hate going back and reviewing the carnage. Ego is a big biatch.
Personally I would fold A5o - Being so deep, it's a mediocre hand out of position. Plenty of better spots vs a 89/11 whale!
Ya I forgot to mention that in the video I think Ginger, folding preflop is fine here as well if you want to lower your variance.
Yeah I’d definitely fold A5o here too
Yea.. He's right folks. I got run over and over.. sets flopped against me in 4 times in 3 big tournaments and I had it in good each time. Brutal suckouts, bad day. Put the last 17$ on cash after I was out of all tournaments and sucked out on again with My AA, guy had 77 and he flopped a set. I then raged and self excluded permanently. Didn't really think it was permanent tho I guess. Now I can no longer play ever and it sucks.
1st. Bad beats happen. Bad beats 4 hours in to an MTT for your stack is instant insanity.
Late in an MTT is the hardest for sure!
Good subject. It happened to me the other day. I lost 3 buyins in a matter of 20 minutes and I just couldn't shake the last one off. So I got off every table and walked away. I planned to come back in an hour or so, but my mind wasn't right. So I sat out the rest of the day and part of the next. Best advice I've heard on the matter is sit out until you know you can handle losing your stack again.
That's the right approach Kevin, good job!
If playing a huge fish, remind yourself that you will have a lot of opportunities on future hands to get back money. I hate it when the fish grabs my money and calls it a night though.
Thanks for the videos Nathan. I read crushing the micros and have actually made a profit in 2nl for the first time over the course of this month. All due to you bro! Your a legend!
Awesome Patrick, I am glad to hear my book helped you!
Thanks and now from today I will flow your this tips if I get bad bet or I tilt I will quit that day and this is right call for me 2
In low stakes I find that when an ace hits the board on the flop, it tends to check around and so in order for me to attack their wide calling range and draws I check raise infrequently.
I'm also a bit of a nit, so if I raise this big pre-flop from the small blind, I have to imagine that my opponent at the very least understands that I have an ace in my range and so is not likely to bet into me. More like a broadway draw or a medium/small pair looking for a set. And as frequent enjoyer of bad beats from attacking weakness in the micros, I would not feel overly strong here and would love a fold.
Now if I had a pair of 5s, and he was the pre flop aggresor, then I'm sure I would check raise... and still lose.
I lost yesterday in the same spot. Fish never lie.
Should you fold when Villain 3 shoved? I've found similar situations and I concluded that very rarely Hero call is worth it in these situations...
Most bad beats don't get me tilted, but when my opponent instantly leaves the table after the bad beat, I get a little tilted.
I rarely leave immediately, I usually stick close to my time limit, or my hand limit for the session. The times I leave immediately, is based on who else is at the table, if there are aggressive three betters behind me, I leave immediately. If it is a drooling fish table, I usually re-group and get my stack back.
I think there's value in calm slow breathing, and intentionally pausing on every action, and training my mind to be rational even though I know I'm a bit tilted.
Do we really want to start bluff catching with two pair vs an 89/18/1 ultra loose passive fish?
He can have a ton of worse hands that’ll call a bet but won’t bet themselves.
He called the AK5 flop with 88 so he’s got a ton of Kx and Ax combos that will call a bet.
And all his stupid gutshot hands like QJ, QT, JT, 32, 34, 45 get to see the river for free.
My reply was meant to be in response to your other comment obviously lol.
@@nicks210684 You're right, but he also has a lot of even worse garbage that won't call the turn bet. And sometimes we just end up creating a bigger pot for when he does hit his gut shot.
All I'm saying is, sometimes I don't go for the home run in a spot like this. Being out of position is one of the most important considerations. If it was top two pair it would also be different.
Reminds me of when I stacked a fish 300bb eff stacks with top set on a board like this, lead shoves a gutshot on turn like huge overbet, get there on the river I thought this would happen that he would show up with 23o
Omfg the exact same thing just happened to me, I flopped top set with jacks ,only the mf shoved on flop with bottom pair of 4 and backdoor straight and got there on the River with 45 off suit. Which lead me to this video.
@@songlinwang8982 Happens alot recently idk what is going on with atleast Pokerstars, all theese massive whales come from nowhere at MT turbo SNGs, Canada Germany and Brazil like they are everywhere, calling jams PF with hands like QJo for 100BB eff and always gets there, call tripple barrel with a gutshot risknig their whole stack and always gets there on river, its so funny and I have never seen theese many whales in this timespan since the Covid 19 outbreak. Only downside is when your playing whales frequently you will have alot of downswings and big upswings and theese downswings can last for sometime before you get to a massive heather when playing vs theese kinds of player, they are lucky and thats why poker is still alive.
@@Smurfen249 exactly, especially the last part. I just need to learn to not get tilted when the downswing happens. Otherwise it’s all over. Even if I stopped playing right away after that hand it still affected my mood. It doesn’t even matter how small the stakes are
@@songlinwang8982 Bad beats occour ALOT at the micros, as long as you get it in good you shouldnt care if you win or loose because it is the most profitible play and in the long run its what will make you money when they call with hands they shouldnt. Poker is a long term game and you shouldnt look at short term results, just long term results. That can help for tilting if you learn how to manage that mental part, you can't win every session just try to keep that in mind. It helped me in the past when I was hiding my bankroll in the cashier and didn't look on it anymore exept maybe once a month to see how I was doing. If you play games you are beating and bankrolled for you can do this since you will have no reason to look at your bankroll for some time. If you jump up in stakes I know aswell how it is, you keep looking at ur BR everyday to see how much you lost that day :D
ya i woulda avoided it by not palying A5o in the small blind :P. But I get the point of the video and it's something I'm struggling with right now. When they blast me into my monster hand I can't for some reason fold and avoid the bad beat. Even though, as you say and I definitely know, fish aren't going to shove with anything less than a monster.
I think I need to look at the history mathematically. Is it worth the call. There's like 2 situations that happen. Either they're shoving a monster which hurts, or they're bluffing and I catch them for a big pot. It's hard to do and will rely on situation, but realistically, I get bad beat by this sort of crap (monster hand dominated by a fish) way more often than I catch out a bluff. I think I need to learn to fold.
you should make a video with a ton of bad beats like this called "When Fish Attack!"
quick edit: thinking about it more, it's more often than not my top pair or 2 pair vs their monster. Those hands I think I can learn to get away from when fish attack
Hi Nathan, I was reading all articles from your blog and I have only one doubt about your chart suggestion of 20% of hands to play. I don't know if you can anser me, but I'll be really happy if does. Here: You told that we can be very tight on nl2/nl5, ok. And did you present a chart with 20% of range, right? Is it mean that I will play 20% in all positions? Or I need play, I don't know, 8% of EP and 20% will be the max when I'm on Button?
Thx in advanced!
2 years late but, 12% EP and 40% btn (steal), that's the tight spot. On MP you play like 17% of hands, from CO 28% if you want to steal or tighter if there Is a maniac after you, and 40% btn almost. In this spot A5o had to limp behind because it's a bad hand against 0 fold equity 90% vpip. And if he shoves 200bb you know that 2 pairs arent enough. This is not a bad beat but a bad call, preflop and postflop. I've been there so many times too and its 100% heros fault
Right one of I who have a bad bet I jump to higher stake game and I loses more and more
Sometimes this spot can be avoided. Pre-flop fine. On the flop fine. However, on the turn, often I will check this while out of position and possibly bluff catch.
There are no flush draws, and most straight draws are probably just gut shots. If he has an Ace or a King, hero will still get one more street anyways. Also, by checking this turn, out of position, the fish might bet and give away a ton of information based on his bet sizes and or timing tells. Also he might make the mistake of checking behind with a monster hand.
As we saw in this hand, the fish did give away a ton of information by going all in over a large turn bet. I think he probably makes some kind of mistake if it is checked to him on the turn. He probably doesn't know what to do when playing this deep.
Interesting line, it could work!
Yesterday day i got eliminated in the tournament with a hand like this one with the flush in the river it’s hurting
I don’t mind how he played until the turn villan raise. AF of 1 and he shoves on the turn. Even with top and bottom pair it’s an easy fold for me
AF of 1 is a good point Mark! Often a big hand.
The only ways you can try and prevent this beat would be to bet even bigger on the flop to get villain to fold or to fold to the raise on the turn.
But either would be scared money and bad play in the long run.
Ya I agree John
OK man, I read your book and now I am your huge fan. Thank you for your advices, my poker improved a lot but now you are saying things that contradict your book. For example isn't hero supposed to fold this hand? When I get paid on the flop then I start thinking is villain having something better and if I have two pair usually I would bet again but after the raise my assumption was that he hit a set on the flop maybe fives or "hidden" kings. I've noticed also the most brutal bad beats happen quite often because I played out of position or with a hand that is not supposed to be played at all. Last time I lost was that I raised from early position with 33, I hit set on the flop and bet, I got raised and went all in to scare him because there was a flush draw. Turns out to be set over set. So especially on pokerstars where the RNG is rigged to have huge pots usually the software assists the player who played their hand correctly. Also if you make a fold like to fold your aces on the flop the software always rewards you two or three hands later with a nut hand and a fish on the table :D
Hey lliya I am glad my book helped you! The reason this hand is "different" for me is because it is 4 handed and versus a huge whale. Also, we have a hand that is ahead of many other value hands that recs love to flip out with here such as AK, AQ, AJ, K8, 85, K5.
@@BlackRain79Poker thanks a lot, man, you are awesome :)
if you're deep stacked like this, wouldnt it be a good idea to leave the table and join another to collect the profits?
If he had raised his pocket pair big preflop on the button, A-5 would have folded. So was it smart to limp preflop to get worse hands to stay in?
The issue here is not by owns fault ( not thinking what my opponent may have)
$3 bet massive overbet on pot I would at least consider what has he would have something decent.
Alot of players will only be interested in what they have and how they were suppose to win the hand because that what suppose to happen so it's fair right? but unhappy when things don't.
It no different to real life, life is unfair too.
What? This is not a bad beat at all A5 should have been folded first and for most when facing that all-in as you said you don't know what the player has and the 3rd worst paired A would advise a more cautious play here for me anyway. BTW the 88 is the favourite to win the hand preflop, roughly 69% against the hero hand everything would tell you the opponent has trips when that 8 comes over, and if you can't surmise that from the stack size facing a bad paired board on the flop would be a fold to most bet sizes; what can beat it A8, AK, it's the worst hand on the flop when you compare it to AK or Ax and gets worse on the turn. Would have been a bad beat for the pocket 8's. How exactly is it a bad beat because the player has a huge range of hands come on teach poker that makes sense! A5 is not even in the top 25% of good hands where as 88 is in the top 6%. Guaranteed the better player won that hand, even if the hero plays 20% of hands the unknown percentage of hands both players play tells me A5 is the fish here!
8 combos of sets I beat 0/8 combos and 2-pair hands I beat 21/33 combos. I have 51.22% chance that I beat him, this is basically a flip. With AK it's 80.49% and a much better call.
Good content mate
What would consider the hud stats for a real solid reg?
I have a new video on the best HUD stats now: ua-cam.com/video/Ai-GlpQoEBw/v-deo.html
@@BlackRain79Poker Thank you! Excellent article.
passive approach pre-flop and on the flop and the sudden burst of activity could totally mean he had 88 though... no?
My gut said 55. Either way I'd fold the two pair.
Would you guys call a 3x raise on the turn with AQ? (Not all in but 3x raise) and than all in on river?
Hell no. Mucking AQ on the turn with no regrets against this player type.
You can't bluff bad players. Keep it tight and keep it real in microstakes.
I think we could call that a bad beat if he shoved all in before the turn. It was just bad luck or bad play.
Well played hand, and yes this is definitely a call with second best 2 pair, even though it's never a bluff a 90 VPIP guy can have any lower 2 pair.
Even if you make the assumption that he's only raising turn because the 8 hit him, K8 and 85 are more likely than 88 or A8.
Thanks for your thoughts Fefe!
Agreed.
And if you’ve been betting/raising him a lot he might even show up with AQ/AJ thinking “I’ll show this guy for pushing me around all the time”
Which obviously makes no sense but fish gonna fish.
@@nicks210684 Yep, these guys don't bluff but they overplay hands a lot. Why do they keep checkraising AT on a T high board against the preflop 3better? We'll never know :=)
I'm sorry but on what planet is the turn a call? Population at 2nl are stations and don't overbluff 150bigs. Fold pre but as played just bet fold turn unless you have read villain bluff spews. To say otherwise is really incredibly fishy even at 2nl
When I saw the 4 on the river I was expecting villain to turn over 23 offsuit 😂
Haha same
Hehe i expected 67o :D
@@syhi7971 haha yeah 67o would be even sicker.
“Of course I can call the flop, I have a backdoor straight draw and backdoor trips draw!”
@@nicks210684 :D trips draw.. man. Everythings possible i guess
I don't think i'ts profitable to call a shove here because I don't think the villain rarely have an Ax that plays that way. Max a AJo that didn't want to raise pre, or a AT, but I don't think they will shove like this most of the time in a board with no draws. I'ts really a tilt play that I just don't see enought of the time to make a profitable call. honestly, deep like this, I put him on a 88,55,A8s,A5s,K8s range.
Hey Luiz, what about the fact that it is 4 handed? Does that change the range you put him on?
@@BlackRain79Poker I think they would raise preflop with AT+. maybe "cold limp" like this, but that give us 54% equity (I suppose) and, still, we don't have the enough equity to call this shove
@@BlackRain79Poker limp/call for me is so much like a pair or weak ace
sorry, 41% equity with ATs and 54% with ATo, yeah that make the call profitable
but, still, I doubt so much a raise allin like this being just a pair...
actually, this is the problem to play just value on the micro, because you get into a spot like this and ask yourself if there is bluffs on the villain range. if there is, this should be always call. but we know that the villain range is so capped that we are almost always loosing in this situation. that why it's confusing to play just value on any game, because we would not be able to call this raise bet, since we just have 55 that play similarly (AK, AA, and KK will have a bigger size preflop).
The worst poker hand is the second best hand
Just a general question. You often refer to online games. But l am concerned about their legality.
PokerStars I know have it. I live in Sweden and since January 2019 European Union changed gambling laws for online in Sweden. PokerStars and the big names all have an agreement and contract with the Swedish goverment to enable us to keep playing on their site. They need to apply for a Swedish license and follow the rules of our goverement. We have a client called ".SE" on PartyPoker, 888 and PokerStars and many other bigger names. The smaller sites doesnt have any contracts or follow rules because they don't have the money or don't make enough money. The bigger names are always legit and follow goverment rules. PokerStars has 10 different clients for surthen countries and have to follow that surthen countries rules and make an agreement with the goverments to avoid being sued in court.
@@Smurfen249 Thanks for the reply. I live in California, United States. Love it, but not so good for online poker.
Hey Michael, you should always check your local laws and regulations where ever you may live. I have people from all over the world who watch my videos.
Clearly a fish would continue until showdown with pocket 8's
Yes, very often this is true.
Today I had a guy call my triple barrel with a flopped third pair (75 on a QT7 board).
I also had a guy call a big turn check raise on a board of Q983 with AK and no draw.
Luckily in the latter case I had AThh, there were two hearts on the board and I rivered my flush lol. But I couldn’t believe the cards he turned over.
So yeah....fish gonna fish lol.
@@nicks210684 I like the guy who called with AK he got a nice read on you, calling with AK isn't so bad I guess he got two overcards even with no draws I'll do the same thing lol u just got lucky! Nice play!
@@johnmalto3392 I did get lucky yes.
But the thing is I’d not been getting out of line with insane aggression or crazy bluffs so no idea where he got his read from.
I guess my point is that low limit recs just love to try and catch you bluffing.
If you can avoid it, its not bad beat!!!
I think it was a very stupid decision to call ALL-IN at the turn. I may not understand the statistics well and may be in the long run it makes sense as we would win most of the time here, but using common sense will help to understand we may not have the top hand. In the end, 2 pair is a pretty weak hand. Good hands start from a set.
Snap Fold Turn. Bad Beat? Where and how?
It was a bad beat but I think you should have got away on the turn.
Big raise out of position with junk hand, this look stupid to me, 88 played better, limp 88 to setmine definitely a money making move(raise would have been better), he float the flop in position not perfect play, but if you raise A5o you raise at least 30% of your hand and you missed the flop with many hands to make this play OK once in a while ! Then he got lucky and you made the bad call ! This is not a bad beat ! You played the hand badly !
1/3 on the flop.
Mixing it up versus the recs too Ignacio?
gto range bet baby! lol i do the same thing, works much better than big bets imo because it allows you to bet the same way whether you hit or miss. at the same time there is merit in just bombing it vs fish. exploitation is def better vs fish
Okay let's go back a few videos maybe when we were discussing how maybe the game is rigged and yes rigged call it what you want the pros call it variance variance my ass they use a number generator and quote your not able to predict the outcome of what is coming next because it generates numbers randomly only to benefit the house I don't know really exactly how to explain it being in the game poker? The answer to this problem of bad beats is usually when somebody goes all in like that there's trying to tell you I'm giving you the best odds I can and doesn't matter I will beat you anyway only thing you must be prepared for is the outcome because the decision you make is the decision that you make and that's all so you have to deal with this that's all and no one should be getting upset because they made that decision because remember that was your decision! Hey Mr Black rain 79 you know I really like your s*** there's a lot of things that I make a rule of thumb about and that's what I'm hoping on getting out from you I just so I can be a little bit better and mediocre I've been playing for since 2012 something I'm still mediocre I have came myself from my bad habits I hope I don't get any new ones
Hey Joe thanks for the comment, I am glad you enjoy my videos!
You should try a full stop every now and then.
Its 100% rigged
I think you were looking to comment on an election video and accidentally ended up here.
Can you provide evidence please?