And she was responsible for bringing Mary back to court and bugging Henry until he agreed to restore Mary to the succession. Jane was also a loyal Catholic and Anne was cruel to her (and all of her ladies) so you're right. I don't think it would have bothered Jane too much and I can't say that I really blame her. I'm sure Jane believed that Catherine was the TRUE queen of England and Mary a princess all along.
I think Chapuys was correct: Jane was a woman of no beauty. What attracted Henry to Jane were the qualities that distinguished her from Anne Boleyn. For a start, they looked completely different; Anne was a sallow-complexioned, sloe-eyed brunette. By contrast, Jane was pale, blue-eyed, and blonde. Whereas Anne was an outspoken and grasping personality, Jane was reserved and demure. Henry usually went in a completely different direction with his successor wives. The plain and staid Anne of Cleves was replaced by the pretty and vivacious Catherine Howard. The young and frivolous Catherine Howard was replaced by the mature and intelligent Katharine Parr.
Jane learned from Anne Boleyn's example, how to manipulate Henry VIII into marrying her. Anne was portrayed as a wicked woman in contrast to Jane , The Fairest. Her reputation as Good Queen Jane survived because she produced the long awaited son, but she died at the height of her glory.
The whole idea of Anne "manipulating" poor, widdle, itty bitty Henry who had no defense against her wily womanly ways is about as realistic and accurate as a Philippa Gregory novel. I am tired of the sexism and the podcast author continuously "liking" it is not a good look, esp. given the insistence that Thomas Seymour probably wasn't so bad if he only FLIRTED with a child 25+ years his junior.
@Mrs. Karen I don’t agree. She received a locket from Henry, and enjoyed opening and closing it in front of Anne. I personally don’t think she was the meek little milquetoast that’s she portrayed to be.
@Mrs. Karen Well, CoA didn’t actually fight in that battle, in armor, leading the troops. That’s a myth. She was about 100 miles away. She had some very excellent advisors. And I agree, she was a very good queen. And if she would have had a son in their 20 years of marriage, then none of the other five would have happened.
@@mangot589 I agree totally. Jane was very devoted to Catherine of Aragon too. I'm sure she did enjoy taunting Anne as she probably saw her as responsible for Catherine's banishment, annulment, etc., and the cruel treatment of Mary, although Mary's cruel treatment continued even after Anne's death, so it was Henry all along who was ultimately responsible for EVERYTHING!!!
Just found this channel and I’m so happy as a person from England I love the history we have and all out kings and queens before us the tudors and Victorian ages have always amazed me
I have read through all comments. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion of course, but I can not understand why so many of you need to compare Anne and Jane...
I want to know more about her. I don't think she had anything to do with Anne's downfall, but was just a pawn of her family. She more than likely had no choice in marrying Henry.
I think she inadvertently played a part without knowledge of Anne's death I suggest reading Jane Seymour the Haunted queen by Alison Weir if you want to read about her it is one of the best books I have read
there's documentation that she was trained to speak ill of Anne at every opportunity. Was she as directly responsible as Cromwell or Henry? No. But she was no innocent, either.
I would love to know more about this woman. I feel like, out of all of Henry's queens,Jane is the most overlooked. It's really too bad we don't reallly know much about her personality and what she thought of everything.
Me too. I find her fascinating for some reason. Maybe because she seems so mysterious? I'd love to know what her personality was like, what she thought about her husband, etc.
I’m not so sure about Thomas, but I believe Edward had great influence over her, especially at court - possibly her father as well since he also held a position in Henry’s household. I’ve always believed that Thomas and Jane were much closer. They were only about a year apart - I picture them more friendly.
It was not customary for the King or the Queen to attend the christening of a prince or a princess, so as not to show up the baby. Henry wasn't at Edward's christening, so Jane sure wasn't.
How are you related to Jane Seymour? She is my 14th great Aunt. I am a descendent of her brother Henry Seymour-the only Seymour brother to not have his head chopped off-LOL! He had a daughter Jane Seymour (not the Queen), who married William Rodney. The Rodney’s were ship captains and eventually emigrated to the Virginia colonies. Are you in the US or England? My sister had a friend that was also a Seymour descendent.
Jane is my gr grandmother. Obviously many years ago. There are also Woods in my tree. Learning about the royals is so much more interesting now. Lizzie Wood aee you connected to the vikings and Vlad the great?
@@maryannebrown2385 My wife is Wentworth from the same family and of the first Wentworth family that came to America in 1640, her greatgrandmother was also cousin of Sam Houston, first president of Texas. She has her Family tree in Ancestry.com/Ralph Wentworth
Did Anne Boleyn care about Bishop Fisher or Sir Thomas More or any other Catholics or any one opposed to Henry's divorce of Katherine of Aragon and the destruction of the Catholic religion in England ,or those who lost everything(some including their lives)because they would not sign the Act of Succession?Why on earth should Jane care if Anne lost her life?
She may have but had no choice in the matter she was a woman. I believe and may be wrong she inadvertently helped cause the downfall of Anne but she didn't believe Anne would die. Since she believed they were really married it wouldn't seem wrong to her.
We actually don't know IF Anne cared about any or none of these things because the majority of the sources we have are based on a hostile witness: Chapuys. And IF she (Jane) was the supposed "Fairest", then maybe she SHOULD have cared if an innocent woman was MURDERED on TRUMPED UP charges to make way for her. FFS, two wrongs, no matter how different, don't make a right, you aren't making Jane look good with this statement. And seeing Rebecca liking THIS highly sexist, repulsive remark is a disappointment. I thought we had moved past the nonsensical "Team Aragon", "Team Boleyn" etc. nonsense. All six wives deserve love, support and compassion. Also Jane "should" have cared for decency's sake if NOTHING else. But Anne/Karma had the last laugh, if you will. Jane died, her son died after executing both her brothers and Elizabeth outshone the lot and became Gloriana, thus avenging her mother's murder. *Mic Drop*
Such a great comment. I agree with you 100%! Anne worked hard for Thomas More and Bishop Fisher's death, and actually celebrated when Katherine of Aragon died. Who does that???? Also, she didn't give AF about KOA or Mary. At least Jane cared about KOA and Mary and was mostly responsible for bringing Mary back to court and back into Henry's affections. Maybe if Anne hadn't been so cruel to everyone around her (including her ladies) she might have had more people to defend her and instead of testifying against her, her ladies might have taken up for her. She was ambitious to the point of cruelty, IMO.
I don't think there would have been anything she could have done. Especially since she most likely had nothing to do with any of the reasons of why Anne was executed. The real reasons, not the false crimes she was charged with. At this point Henry was over women having any opinions other than his. Jane was his favorite because she was kind of a "seen but not heard" wife. (because of Edward too)
Anne couldn't have Katherine executed even if she wants to. It would start a political crisis. Katherine is the daughter of the most powerful monarchs at the time and also related to the other kings and queens around Europe. Killing her would be political suicide for Henry VIII.
If by 'fairest' you mean plain and pale as a ghost? Sure. Otherwise, I wouldn't say she was the fairest of all. It was said that while Anne had style and sophistication, she was plain and needed all the finery and jewels she could wear to look attractive.
Ahh my least favorite of the Queens. quite boring and is no better than Anne Boleyn. I believe her sweetness and ability to be so agreeable and pleasing to the King was fake and only to just be opposite of Anne because she knew that Henry was tired of her.
I personally really like her but didn't used to either until I read fatal throne not totally accurate but a different point of view of course your entitled to your opinion but I suggest looking at different points of views before making a decision
@@justanotherfangirlontheint4084 THANK YOU. jane had absolutely no choice in her marriage to henry, she was pressured into it by her family and she has no way of knowing what would happen to anne. she was henry’s favourite not just because she had a son, but because she was literally seen but not heard - in 17 months of being married to him, she didn’t say anything (or nothing that was deemed important enough to be recorded, anyway). the only thing of note was jane begging henry to pardon some participants in the pilgrimage of grace, to which he responded by threatening to behead her as well. during her second pregnancy (this was the one in which she gave birth to edward) henry was so determined to prevent her from miscarrying a second time, he held her in what was essentially solitary confinement. jane was a victim too, people:/
She's not my favorite either, but...who was going to tell him no, not only because he was a rich king, but because he was a dick. Everyone knew making him mad or humiliating him meant you risked your head or that of your family.
Don't forget Jane was loyal to Catherine of Aragon, so usurping Anne was probably quite pleasing.
She thought he wasn't married to Anne and if she was in love well in her eyes he was single
And she was responsible for bringing Mary back to court and bugging Henry until he agreed to restore Mary to the succession. Jane was also a loyal Catholic and Anne was cruel to her (and all of her ladies) so you're right. I don't think it would have bothered Jane too much and I can't say that I really blame her. I'm sure Jane believed that Catherine was the TRUE queen of England and Mary a princess all along.
@@ElizabethF2222 Jane helped to bring Mary back to court, but it was Katherine Parr that convinced Henry to restore Mary to the succession.
This is absolutely lovely! Thank you for this podcast
Poor Jane :(
She’s my favourite Tudor
I think Chapuys was correct: Jane was a woman of no beauty. What attracted Henry to Jane were the qualities that distinguished her from Anne Boleyn. For a start, they looked completely different; Anne was a sallow-complexioned, sloe-eyed brunette. By contrast, Jane was pale, blue-eyed, and blonde. Whereas Anne was an outspoken and grasping personality, Jane was reserved and demure. Henry usually went in a completely different direction with his successor wives. The plain and staid Anne of Cleves was replaced by the pretty and vivacious Catherine Howard. The young and frivolous Catherine Howard was replaced by the mature and intelligent Katharine Parr.
Jane learned from Anne Boleyn's example, how to manipulate Henry VIII into marrying her. Anne was portrayed as a wicked woman in contrast to Jane , The Fairest. Her reputation as Good Queen Jane survived because she produced the long awaited son, but she died at the height of her glory.
The whole idea of Anne "manipulating" poor, widdle, itty bitty Henry who had no defense against her wily womanly ways is about as realistic and accurate as a Philippa Gregory novel. I am tired of the sexism and the podcast author continuously "liking" it is not a good look, esp. given the insistence that Thomas Seymour probably wasn't so bad if he only FLIRTED with a child 25+ years his junior.
@Mrs. Karen I don’t agree. She received a locket from Henry, and enjoyed opening and closing it in front of Anne. I personally don’t think she was the meek little milquetoast that’s she portrayed to be.
@Mrs. Karen Well, CoA didn’t actually fight in that battle, in armor, leading the troops. That’s a myth. She was about 100 miles away. She had some very excellent advisors. And I agree, she was a very good queen. And if she would have had a son in their 20 years of marriage, then none of the other five would have happened.
@@elisabetta611 And let's not forget that Jane didn't live long enough to piss psycho Henry off!
@@mangot589 I agree totally. Jane was very devoted to Catherine of Aragon too. I'm sure she did enjoy taunting Anne as she probably saw her as responsible for Catherine's banishment, annulment, etc., and the cruel treatment of Mary, although Mary's cruel treatment continued even after Anne's death, so it was Henry all along who was ultimately responsible for EVERYTHING!!!
Just found this channel and I’m so happy as a person from England I love the history we have and all out kings and queens before us the tudors and Victorian ages have always amazed me
I have read through all comments. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion of course, but I can not understand why so many of you need to compare Anne and Jane...
I want to know more about her. I don't think she had anything to do with Anne's downfall, but was just a pawn of her family. She more than likely had no choice in marrying Henry.
I think she inadvertently played a part without knowledge of Anne's death I suggest reading Jane Seymour the Haunted queen by Alison Weir if you want to read about her it is one of the best books I have read
there's documentation that she was trained to speak ill of Anne at every opportunity. Was she as directly responsible as Cromwell or Henry? No. But she was no innocent, either.
I would love to know more about this woman. I feel like, out of all of Henry's queens,Jane is the most overlooked.
It's really too bad we don't reallly know much about her personality and what she thought of everything.
Me too. I find her fascinating for some reason. Maybe because she seems so mysterious? I'd love to know what her personality was like, what she thought about her husband, etc.
I doubt that Jane Seymour was so eager to marry Henry VIII. What if she did not have a boy? I guess she would of not he declared so loyal and fair.
I really suggest Jane Seymour the haunted queen by Alison Weir if you like her I adore it
@@justanotherfangirlontheint4084 Thank you! I will check that out.
@@MS219E Yeah,she probably had a lot of anxiety about marrying a man like that,and worried and if she would have a boy in time enough to please him.
I imagine her brothers were extremely controlling over her
I’m not so sure about Thomas, but I believe Edward had great influence over her, especially at court - possibly her father as well since he also held a position in Henry’s household. I’ve always believed that Thomas and Jane were much closer. They were only about a year apart - I picture them more friendly.
The Tudors tv series made me really like Jane!
It was not customary for the King or the Queen to attend the christening of a prince or a princess, so as not to show up the baby. Henry wasn't at Edward's christening, so Jane sure wasn't.
hey guys fun fact! jane Seymour is my 15th great aunt!
How are you related to Jane Seymour? She is my 14th great Aunt. I am a descendent of her brother Henry Seymour-the only Seymour brother to not have his head chopped off-LOL! He had a daughter Jane Seymour (not the Queen), who married William Rodney. The Rodney’s were ship captains and eventually emigrated to the Virginia colonies. Are you in the US or England? My sister had a friend that was also a Seymour descendent.
Jane is my gr grandmother. Obviously many years ago. There are also Woods in my tree. Learning about the royals is so much more interesting now. Lizzie Wood aee you connected to the vikings and Vlad the great?
Wow, that's so cool! I wish I had interesting relatives like that :P
Cool she is my favorite of his wives.
@@maryannebrown2385 My wife is Wentworth from the same family and of the first Wentworth family that came to America in 1640, her greatgrandmother was also cousin of Sam Houston, first president of Texas. She has her Family tree in Ancestry.com/Ralph Wentworth
Thank you 🙏
😊
I love The Tudors. The only time I remotely felt sorry for Henry was when Jane died. 😇😭😭.
Did Anne Boleyn care about Bishop Fisher or Sir Thomas More or any other Catholics or any one opposed to Henry's divorce of Katherine of Aragon and the destruction of the Catholic religion in England ,or those who lost everything(some including their lives)because they would not sign the Act of Succession?Why on earth should Jane care if Anne lost her life?
Jane might have cared because it served as an ominous warning. Better give Mr.Right a male heir,and quickly..
AMEN TO THIS
She may have but had no choice in the matter she was a woman. I believe and may be wrong she inadvertently helped cause the downfall of Anne but she didn't believe Anne would die. Since she believed they were really married it wouldn't seem wrong to her.
We actually don't know IF Anne cared about any or none of these things because the majority of the sources we have are based on a hostile witness: Chapuys. And IF she (Jane) was the supposed "Fairest", then maybe she SHOULD have cared if an innocent woman was MURDERED on TRUMPED UP charges to make way for her. FFS, two wrongs, no matter how different, don't make a right, you aren't making Jane look good with this statement. And seeing Rebecca liking THIS highly sexist, repulsive remark is a disappointment. I thought we had moved past the nonsensical "Team Aragon", "Team Boleyn" etc. nonsense. All six wives deserve love, support and compassion. Also Jane "should" have cared for decency's sake if NOTHING else. But Anne/Karma had the last laugh, if you will. Jane died, her son died after executing both her brothers and Elizabeth outshone the lot and became Gloriana, thus avenging her mother's murder. *Mic Drop*
Such a great comment. I agree with you 100%! Anne worked hard for Thomas More and Bishop Fisher's death, and actually celebrated when Katherine of Aragon died. Who does that???? Also, she didn't give AF about KOA or Mary. At least Jane cared about KOA and Mary and was mostly responsible for bringing Mary back to court and back into Henry's affections. Maybe if Anne hadn't been so cruel to everyone around her (including her ladies) she might have had more people to defend her and instead of testifying against her, her ladies might have taken up for her. She was ambitious to the point of cruelty, IMO.
Jane Seymour, the only one he truly loved
*rude*
When her son was newly born, she died
But I'm not what I seem or am I stick around and you'll suddenly See more
Well he never had time to get tired of her
No one can blame Jane for Anne' death. Anne got what she had comeing. And in the end, non of this would have happen if not for the king.
She had it coming to be framed, maligned and MURDERED? Really? REALLY?
@@elisabetta611 Others died due to Anne -so yes she certainly had it coming.Anne Boleyn was not known for a soft heart or kindness.
So you must feel Jane’s awful death after childbirth means Jane got what was coming to her.
I’m not saying what Jane did was right when she let Anne die but I feel like Anne would have gladly had Katherine executed if she could have
amen!
I don't think there would have been anything she could have done. Especially since she most likely had nothing to do with any of the reasons of why Anne was executed. The real reasons, not the false crimes she was charged with. At this point Henry was over women having any opinions other than his. Jane was his favorite because she was kind of a "seen but not heard" wife. (because of Edward too)
Jaded Wonderland I heartily agree
In fact Anne did push for Catherine's removal
Anne couldn't have Katherine executed even if she wants to. It would start a political crisis. Katherine is the daughter of the most powerful monarchs at the time and also related to the other kings and queens around Europe. Killing her would be political suicide for Henry VIII.
And regardless Queen Anne Boleyn Even In Death Got The Last LAUGH
If by 'fairest' you mean plain and pale as a ghost? Sure. Otherwise, I wouldn't say she was the fairest of all. It was said that while Anne had style and sophistication, she was plain and needed all the finery and jewels she could wear to look attractive.
'it was said'...... by who?
Anne was also described as not very handsome. Lol
Ahh my least favorite of the Queens. quite boring and is no better than Anne Boleyn. I believe her sweetness and ability to be so agreeable and pleasing to the King was fake and only to just be opposite of Anne because she knew that Henry was tired of her.
exactlyyyyyyy
Plus she just made Henry worse by giving him what he wanted!
I personally really like her but didn't used to either until I read fatal throne not totally accurate but a different point of view of course your entitled to your opinion but I suggest looking at different points of views before making a decision
molly Knox So she should have basically condemned herself to the same fate as Anne? She wanted to live
@@justanotherfangirlontheint4084 THANK YOU. jane had absolutely no choice in her marriage to henry, she was pressured into it by her family and she has no way of knowing what would happen to anne. she was henry’s favourite not just because she had a son, but because she was literally seen but not heard - in 17 months of being married to him, she didn’t say anything (or nothing that was deemed important enough to be recorded, anyway). the only thing of note was jane begging henry to pardon some participants in the pilgrimage of grace, to which he responded by threatening to behead her as well. during her second pregnancy (this was the one in which she gave birth to edward) henry was so determined to prevent her from miscarrying a second time, he held her in what was essentially solitary confinement. jane was a victim too, people:/
She's not my favorite either, but...who was going to tell him no, not only because he was a rich king, but because he was a dick. Everyone knew making him mad or humiliating him meant you risked your head or that of your family.