AVSIM "Outage": What Really Happened and Why | MSFS 2020
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- Опубліковано 28 лип 2024
- Find out what really happened when AVSIM cut off guest viewership of their Microsoft Flight Simulator and Prepar3d forums.
NOTE: What I express in this video relates solely to the owners and most specifically the moderators at AVSIM, along with a few bad apples that they have enabled and encouraged to treat others very poorly. The vast majority of the USERS of AVSIM are good people, who are simply looking to find or share information about this hobby that we all love. Frankly, they deserve better.
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00:00 Introduction
00:45 The Background
02:10 IslandSimPilot
03:15 AVSIM Behavior
04:20 Escalation
05:05 Last Try
05:40 Goodbye, Avsim
06:30 So what happened?
07:45 What I Do
08:30 What's My Point?
10:00 Proof
10:30 The Community Deserves Better
11:05 AVSIM Behavior
11:45 Final Thoughts - Ігри
Hi Mike - I am one of the mods at Avsim and I just wanted to clear one point. The guest access( which has since been reinstated) was not disabled to restrict any specific person or persons from accessing the site. As you may know, Avsim has has some serious outages lately. It was suspected that a flurry of guest accesses was causing it so it was shut down. Made no difference in site performance so it was reinstated. At NO time was the disabling aimed an anyone.
Avsim is a joke! I was banned by the former TOM ALLENSWORTH (AH) for exposing fraud from a Developer FSD international. Good riddance to that joke of a site!
and what about the hall video main issue of AVSIM?
Except that guest access to two specific forums was shut down, all mention of this episode was scrubbed from the site, and there was some serious anger in CA's reply to people questioning it. Regardless, the underlying facts remain: you guys have treated countless people incredibly poorly over the years. Over 120 comments on this video, and exactly two people have defended Avsim, one using a profile picture of Joseph Stalin. Read the comments; read the comments on Reddit and across the internet. It's not just a handful of people. Might be time for a little reflection on Avsim's part...
@@DrPeng1 what about it? Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Do you expect me to "defend" Avsim? How can one defend against someone's opinion. I don't have to agree with it but I certainly respect it. I can find an equal amount of people who love Avsim and find it a great source of information. And that's THEIR opinion, so, for them it's a great place and for you it's not. Both are just fine with me
@@VictorGBaron A place can be a source of information and still present a toxic environment, those are not mutually exclusive traits. The fact that so many people are vocal on the subject, including a prominent developer right here in these comments, speaks serious volumes. That "information" you mention comes from members, the environment in which it is presented is controlled by you guys. Interesting that you (As a representative of the mod team) are essentially taking credit for the content that none of you are responsible for, while absolving yourself of responsibility pertaining to the very thing that you are there to regulate. A professional team would acknowledge the problems and seek ways to address them. This you have proven you are certainly not.
Toxic space.
We asked them to purge our "Unofficial Forums" forums out of there and never looked back.
Oh wow! First of all, love your products! Second of all, that speaks volumes. Keep up your awesome work for the sim!
love your product here also, you guys are way more important than Avsim
The horrible way they treat people goes back 20 years in my experience. Back in 2004 I drove 12 hours to attend the Avsim Conference in Denver. There was a mixup with my registration and instead of correcting it they were rude and disrespectful. Tried to get the man in charge to help and he too was rude and disrespectful. I ended up making the best of it but will never forget how a fellow flight sim enthusiast could be treated so badly. They lost all my respect back then.
That's freaking terrible! It just seems like that's how they are, but to treat someone like that in person after you made the effort to go there, that's just crazy.
When the PMDG fourms moved out of Avsim, so did I. I haven't logged in for a couple years now. No reason to go back.
Avsim? What is this 2006? Didn’t even know they existed anymore
Thanks for your thorough and even keeled explanation. I am a retired 40-year airline captain and spent a lot of my early years flying the Carribean so your content and visuals have always intrigued me and bring me back to my roots. I have avoided being part of most forums because of what you describe. Please continue to present your extremely clear and valuable content and know you have a great many supporters out there whom you have helped and informed along the way. Don't let small minded people that live in these domains change what you do. Keep up the good work.
Thanks so much, Captain! What I wouldn't give to have a beer with you! I truly appreciate the support.
@@IslandSimPilot Here where I live, its the Mai Tai rather than beer and if you ever make it out this way, it'll be on me!
I'd love to chat, reach out to me at islandsimpilot@gmail.com. Thanks!
Baby wake up, new flightsim drama just dropped!
Thanks, very informative and I requested that my Avsim account be delete and I’ll never go back there again. The content you publish is very informative and each video are appreciated because you are really a good communicator.
I truly appreciate that, thanks so much for your supportive words!
Avsim was the pinnacle spot for flight sim files back in the day. Been a member since the early 2000's. I'm still curious why they don't host FS2020 files. 'Because Flightsim to" isn't a good reason. Haven't been back in years.
I am deeply shocked at the way they treat you and their public. I have never seen anything like on any public forum I have been on. For me you are one of the most decent, intelligent and sensitive person I know and admire. I expect nothing less from a great German pilot. Keep up the good work you are doing so selflessly for your fella pilots all over the world. I thoughts of joining you today on your Caribbean flight and would love to know if it is on and, if so, at what time. Thnx and Hals- und Beinbruch!
As always, a sensible and informative Video. I have had similar experiences as you over the decades which is why i now just fly around by myself and pull my head in. We need more people like yourself telling it like it is. Regards Pete
People still share your videos on the forums, I see them all the time and the appreciate your work. As you said, there are a lot of nice people in on there as well as the assholes.
I left a while back and frankly haven't missed it. Kudos to you for outing them.
My experience mirrors yours almost exactly. I was a long-time member and got a warning for a totally innocuous comment, and like you wasn't about to acknowledge it and came back under a new name about a year later. I believe that particular moderator is no longer with us. I pulled all my addons from the library and rarely go there anymore. Btw, thanks so much for the Bing replacement map vid you made, it's fabulous!
Yep, exact same story. The mod that was bothering me all the time is still there. And thanks for the positive feedback!
As a frequent poster on the MSFS Official forums, I never ever post on Avsim. I have an account only because some devs (regrettably) host their support on Avsim.
The quality of the moderation is terrible. It has become a standing joke in places. As you say, dying a slow death.
Yeah, they really do, and consistently so. They bring it on themselves for how they behave.
One thing that was very clear when I joined the site was that X-Plane fanboys have a VERY long leash over there.
The mods' favorites can do whatever they want...
I remember I volunteered way back when to be a Library Manager. Long story short I’d spend hours approving uploads and things. Meanwhile some other guy would go behind and slightly change the upload details so it reflected as if he did all this work. Meanwhile I’d get told “I wasn’t doing enough” and “if I wanted to stay on I needed to do more”. I ended up quitting. Haven’t really been on Avsim for much since.
Wow! That’s crazy. And you were a volunteer no less!
Avsim is a pretty toxic place really, i gave up on it years ago
Left that place a couple of years ago after over 20 yrs. Hard headed, stuck in their ways old fart fanboys, arrogant mods, not what Tom set out to create. Reddit is no better, just full of the opposite. Young, immature, smart mouthed punks mouthing off behind their anonymity. Either one illustrates the lack of discourse nowadays. Seems to be all groupthink, no opposing opinions allowed. Having done this hobby for over 30 yrs, I'll be the first to tell you I do not know it all so I find it hilarious when some young, relatively inexperienced moderator starts spouting off their know it all proclamations, firing off repeated warnings, or outright banning people for the silliest of reasons, but most often over a disagreement or unpopular opinion that goes against the current narrative. This happens all over the various Discord Channels as well. It is the new mindset, agree or go away. It surrounds us everywhere we look or listen, from politics and the military to schools, the workplace, especially social media. I find UA-cam the closest thing to open dialogue lately but we definitely could use a new place to meet, share ideas and openly criticize these products that we all spend a small fortune on over the years in Flightsim world. I get most of my Flightsim news on here or at FSElite. Your videos are invaluable to the community, keep up the good work!
Thank you so much for that, I really appreciate the positive support! I've contemplated starting a flight sim forum, but it's a lot of work. I do feel like there's a void there for exactly what you describe.
Tom was an asshole! He banned me because of a lie from FSD International. I provided proof to TOM that FSD was lying and the response from TOM was we don't want people like you in our community. And I was banned!
I hope you continue to make MSFS content on youtube. I have learnt so much from your channel. Keep up the great work mate!
Oh that I will, my friend.
Look foreward and move on.
No need to look back to this chapter in your flight simming carreer.
Looking foreward to some great content from you.
While I’ve never been a member of Avsim I have seen their name used as the standard in describing how toxic a forum is or may end up. Quite an achievement. They became the Reddit meme of awfulness before there was even a Reddit meme of awfulness.
When Tom Allensworth got sick and passed it all started down hill...
It was already bad when Allensworth was alive.
To quote one of the stories on /r/hobbydrama : Nobody outasshole AVSIM
This makes me sad. Years ago, when I started simming I found Avsim to be a valuable source of guidance. After a long hiatus, I'm back. Avsim seems to have become a grotesque shadow of its former self. I hope it gets better!
More great content from my favorite sim UA-camr. Up at the cabin for the past week and unable to fly and I appreciate each and every one of your videos! 💎 ✈️ Thanks for all you do. Keep your chin up because there are alway jelious haters out there.
Thank you my friend, I truly appreciate all the support!
Avsim and PMDG forum are the most despised flightsim forums by far. Both get trashed on reddit all the time.
But you didn't sign your comment that's bad 😤
Add Orbx to that list … extremely nasty moderator there called Nick. Lots and lots of complaints about how rude the moderators can be.
“You must include your full name in your post!”
@@anthonymark3771 I had asked a simple question on Orbx that I didn’t understand and was even apologetic about not understanding and that wasn’t enough for Nick. He was quite possibly the most odious person I’ve ever met on any forum and he managed that in a single comment. That’s how I learned “support” apparently is synonymous with “abuse” over at Orbx. Decided right there to never do business with them ever again.
I enjoyed your screenshots. You certainly care a lot more about that website than I ever have in the last 20 years.
I didn't even know Avsim was still around hmmm ok . My beef about this channel is that it is the one of the best and I spend alot of time here. guess it is a good thing after all
I haven't been on Avsim for a few years so I just tried access their forum without signing on and have no problem reading forum content so if you can't they must be specifically blocking you.
They reversed the policy, because they realized it would have killed their forum.
I know exactly what you mean. Thank you. I will stay away from Avsim.
Good choice!
Thanks for speaking up. I’ve been there for years but don’t post much. There are some nasty people there and they are the same people. I do agree with all you have said here. My sim runs smooth because of the work you do. Thanks.
I'm truly grateful for your support, Maurice, thank you!
Toxic moderators = a toxic forum.
Please keep doing what you do, AVSIM was terrible back in the FS98 days, so they haven't changed, which is why I haven't used it since FS98 days!
thank you for the update, move on and ignore that shit.
There is a universal law that no one in humanity's history has been able to avoid, it is "whatever you sow you will reap".
AVSIM and other platforms that are not able to function with wholesome values all disappear in the ether.
Consider this you have a thriving community that enjoys the hard work you produce, that appreciates you as an individual and is many orders of magnitude larger that the people whose life is so miserable that they resort to doing nothing more that spend their life on internet forums advertising their lack mental capability and intelligence.
In other words consider that there are way more people that value you then the one or two insignificant losers.
Ignore those people they mean nothing, AVSIM forums mean nothing ... don't waste your valuable time and mental and emotional cycles on those and other mindless people the same way you probably don't loose sleep about what rats do in the sewer.
Keep up the good work Bro. 😎💯
Thanks brother, the support really means a lot to me!
I lost faith with them when the mods were defending the Fulcrum guy that ripped us off on his throttle quadrant pre-order. Luckily I was able to get my money back from PayPal, but the mods were urging everyone to stick it out even after their 180 day refund chance was expiring.
I'm guessing they had a financial interest...
Well, interesting commentary. Tom Allensworth would not be pleased with the current version of AVSim. There is an increasing number of negative comments about AVSim on various aviation forums, and the trend is going in the wrong direction. Clearly, AVSim is not the premier flight simulation forum as in past years. The site certainly needs a new direction. It would start with an overhaul of the primary players and an injection of new moderators to actually moderate before numerous threads have to be locked. Locked threads indicate the contribution of inappropriate posts within individual threads and illustrate poor moderation. Hence, the decline in the AVSim reputation. Blue skies to you!
I couldn't agree more. That's exactly what I told them: they are in dire need of new moderators. One of the real-world aviation forums I frequent did this a few years ago, turned over their entire moderating staff. It's doing great. Another one didn't, and it is no longer in existence. It's a shame because it's a known commodity and could be a great site, but even beyond the moderation, look at the other pages - reviews, editorials, etc. - the last posts are 3 years old and more. They're clearly not interested in doing anything other than what they're doing. Thanks for reaching out!
P.S. I am a subscriber and love your channel!
I wasn't really surprised. For as long as they are around it sometimes has those questionable moments. I am not using AVSIM, only have been in the early days. There is no value in using something where you have to pay too much attention on how to behave. We are simmers, enthousiast.
Great video, enjoy your content, experienced something very similar on Steam. This video has convinced me to close my AVSIM account.
I have been a member for over a decade, I do however chuckle to myself at some of the posts on there. Sorry you were treated this way, completely unnecessary ! You are one of the few you tubers that I find that produces contact actually interesting and useful rather than just posting all of the "Snake Oil" miracle tweaks. Keep up the great work.
I wonder who will be the first to post your video over there
🤣
I know, right? :)
I used Avsim alot back in 2005ish. I haven't even bothered to go back there these days.
I have never heard anything good about the Avsim forums, ever. How they still exist boggles my mind. Because it sounds like a cesspit echo chamber of uselessness.
Joined Avsim years and years ago. Still have an active account but don't post anymore and just check it periodically (more for humor than for actual information). One thing that cracks me up is so many people over there refuse to support certain devs because their only use Discord for support. Uh, it's 2024. Get with the times. 😉
That fits in quite well with what I’ve seen of that site. I remember when they were going to be the new place to host MSFS freeware content, which of course never happened because their file library is straight out of 1996.
@@IslandSimPilot Exactly.
Thanx for the insight, the info you have provided will definitely be dually noted. I have followed much of your advice and have never been steered wrong or found anything you have ever said not to be credible. There is nothing that leads me to believe that this topic or video is any different. It takes courage to hold to your convictions and take a stand on what you believe to be right which only brings more credibility to what you are saying. For these reasons I think I will just steer clear of AVSIM.
P.S. I have seen other negative comments in regards to AVSIM and this video just hammers home what they were saying. Like I said, there is no reason to find what you are saying to not be credible. Thanx again.
I genuinely appreciate the support, thank you! I honestly was hesitant to put this out as I wasn’t sure how it would be received. It means a lot to me. 🙏
Funny (well not really) how much this reminds me of some of the the "moderators" on the X-plane forums.
Add the PMDG forums to this list. They are slowly becoming just as toxic.
Yeah I got banned for a couple of weeks at one time a few years ago too. It was unreasonable. I haven't been back.
Never used it so I must not be missing much.
Nope!
I just went on to see if I could deactivate my account, but there does not seem anyway to do it. So I wrote them..is this the only way?
I will not be part of that toxic slime.
In the early days of simming, Avsim was for me the place to be. It offered exposure to projects by developers (airport editors, programs to bring in road data, tutorials of all kind), usually for free, and showed just what a devoted fan base there was for the hobby. Then it seemed to become irrelevant, or rather diluted, overnight as the Internet became more robust and sites proliferated. I listened to this video but was left with a bad aftertaste. as I am with most things that profess to tell me something for my own good. It came across as someone with a "I'm a star; how dare they treat me this way" attitude. Simming seems to have become what most things do when humans are involved ... a nonstop gripe fest full of moneygrubbers and users who demand something for nothing. Or maybe it's just the web, where a lot of the bad stuff just floats to the top. Or maybe I'm just getting old.
I'm sorry that you took the video that way, that's the exact opposite of my intention. It's not about "how dare they treat me this way", it's "how dare they treat ANYONE this way", and the number of people they've treated this way is a lot. The reason I've spoken up is because I have a platform to do so. This video was for everyone they've treated like this over the years.
Avsim? That's that toxic place where the mods are a bunch of octogenarians on a power trip, right?
Just sounds like its moderated by multiple clones of Comic Guy out of The Simpsons,
In all seriousness, there are elements of autism/asbergers as some of the conduct does really seem so far from reasonable that its the only possible reason i can think of for that kind conduct.
Just never know online/on forums what people are really all about I guess...
AVSIM is actually the same as the MSFS2020 facebook group. Its a terrible forum and i feel it needs to be shut down
I personally am more involved with discord and less on forums.
Just start your own subreddit and be your own moderator.
just some constructive criticism, you should def try investing in a new mic.
People still use Avsim..?
I do regularly visit Avsim and will continue to do so, I have not fell victim to any poor comments thank fully. However, I have ben a member for a very long time and looking from afar it has deteriated over time and the comments have become more rude and childish. Keyboard warriors on the loose lol..
Yeah, again my point isn't to tell people what to do, not that I could if I wanted to, but I just wanted to speak up for the many people who have no ability to really do so. Be well and blue skies!
Avsim ..... waste of time
Like on reddit, only the most inept power hungry clowns aim to moderate these forums and treat them as “their” community.
Always believed that moderation/moderators ID should not be visible to the forum users. And moderators shouls use private separate accounts when using the forum. The lack of ego-boosting would shoo away most psychopath… /clique effect…
Yeah these guys are definitely not acting in the best interests of the site itself.
lol, who cares about avsim? that forum is already dead ...
Yup ban and forget
what on earth is the point of avsim? it seems dead.
AVSIM is a cesspit. I got called a troll for having a wildly different opinion than another user. I wasn't even mean about it.
Fits in exactly with my experience.
I've turned to UA-cam and or Reddit if I want to read flight sim news. A lot more civil.
@@mkdcg Same here. Reddit great, not ideally optimized to discussions/threads, but they do well on policing and keeping things civil.
Just a dead forum with a lot of boomers.
Boomers are dying out. Look at Tom Allensworth.
It's not dead. It is a cesspit though. But there are some nice people on there too.
Since this is a conversation regarding toxicity, I have to ask "Boomers" as opposed to what? The Redditors who seem to be somewhere between age 9 and 25? The ones who cuss out dissenting opinions, tell people to F off, go kill themselves, or touch grass? I don't really see a place for that either. The "Boomers" often referred to negatively are the ones who invented this stuff, I'm quite certain they have more to add than they detract, but it all goes back to the lack of discourse in modern times. We need a middle ground meeting place. These "Boomers" have already forgotten much of what the Newbies haven't even learned yet. Poor argument. There have been opposing forces since the beginning of time and there always will be. A meeting in the middle has always proven itself the best formula, despite the subject matter. Every war began with one side unwilling to negotiate. Perhaps that is neccessary in civilization and the quest for mankind's survival, but most certainly not in a freaking PC game, which at the end of the day, it is just that.
Boomer here. Well, technically more "Generation Jones," but at 64 I fit the demo. Used to be a regular there. Walked out four years ago and never looked back. It's a cesspool. Glad to be done with it. The issue isn't the age of the members - it's that the fish stinks from the head.
That's exactly it. Has nothing at all to do with age. Obnoxious has no age.
Remember when Kosta from ActiveSky got banned on Avsim? 🤣
Oh wow, hadn't heard of that one. Just looked it up, I'm guessing he wasn't the problem!
Edson from our team was banned long ago too. Byeeeeeee !
Oh wow 😂
@@Parallel42 they’re having a collective freakout about your software right now. 😂
@@IslandSimPilot It's sad to see really. Every company takes pride in their work; displaying our brand is part of that pride for us.
Seeing grown adults in our niche community behave this way is disheartening. We strive to provide top-notch support and even issued a refund to this individual (against our refund policy), only to discover they were publicly sharing private interactions from our support system to rant in a forum.
We reserve the right to deny service to ANYONE we feel is not a fit for us as a company, regardless of the amount spent with us or any risk of hard feelings. Think of it like a passenger refusing to disembark from a plane after being disruptive. It never ends well for them, and they certainly won’t be flying with us again.
Anyways, thanks to those who understand and support us, especially those who posted their support for //42 in that thread.
We're human, not some corporate entity that has to deal with baseless entitlement.
//e
I’m not a flag… 😂😂😂😂
LMFAO BoArD oF DiReCtoRs
LOL ...I really like your videos 👍. Like you stated, every simmer has different equipment (you make this known), so settings will vary. What I really would 🤍 to see in ALL flight Sim videos posted on this media platform... IS for the video posters to actually fly a LARGE AIRCRAFT using MANUAL APPROCHES (visual ILS runway), using air speed (throttle), flaps, trim, rudder and they're using NOT VNAV & APR or AUTOPILOT to fly the large aircraft. What's the point of flying if they let the computer do all the work for them? I want to see user's videos post themselves flying manually into an unknown/unfamiliar airport. I want to see their landing technique of actually landing (center line), wheels touching down - NOT USING APR to land. Because I know they CAN'T possibly see an unknown/unfamiliar airport on a 24-inch (or 34-inch either) screen either, so unless you have a 40-inch+ screen, I personally doubt they can see the airport (and without MARKERS ON or using charts). Just saying get REAL, fly them manually. ✈
Thats how Commercial Aircraft are flown in real life. Alot of Commercial I see have LNAV & VNAV activated before take off. Autothrottle & Flight Director also
The Pilot flying does the take off & Landings & at the right time then Autopilot is engaged & disengaged.
The Localiser & App can still be activated when flying it manually as it shows you the information U need along with the Papi's to get your approach Stable & correct.
Lets be honest here, after departure the Pilot monitoring does the Radio & confirms call out's & the Pilot flying/monitoring changes Speed & Altitude/heading if manual . If the Aircraft has LNAV & VNAV activated then the VNAV controls the climb & speed so the pilot monitoring literally only has to change the Altitude dial & Com freq.
I'm actually going to post a video relatively soon (next week or so) of me flying my actual airplane. Look out for that!
That’s a good idea. Many simmers are starting (this way) with airliners, LNAV, VNAV, autopilot, autolanding, you call it. I’m 90% sure that they never ever did a flight with the default MSFS Robin DR-400. There is simply no autopilot. I would like to see flights with this GA doing a flight VOR to VOR with the right in- and outbounds like on the maps àand flying through or above clouds, simply no VFR. Then we’ll see who can master this “simple” airplane and knows navigation.
@Island Simpilot, just leave avsim for what it is, it’s a poisoned forum, and continue the way you are doing now with your YT and discord channels. You’re a great and ALWAYS A POLITE GUY !!
Your intention is to attack Avsim for your benefit. Ok I won't shop at Walmart because I just did a internet search and someone told me not to LOL.
Coming from someone with a Joseph Stalin profile picture. I’ll take your feedback seriously. 🙄
Wow. I knew Avsim had gone downhill over the past couple of years but this is next level.
Never ceases to amaze (frustrate the shit out of) me people with no real world aviation experience prepared to argue to the death about something they know nothing about just for the sake of it! Internet forums everywhere I guess.
Fight the good fight ISP! You are one of the good ones and the community needs more like you.
Excelsior Captain! 🫡
Thanks so much for this message, Murray, it really means a lot! I salute you right back, good sir!