So I was the owner of this barrel. It came as a complete upper from PSA. From the factory none of my bolt carriers would go into battery. The upper was dead on arrival. I disassembled the upper and discovered that PSA had sheered the index pin and installed the front sight base to look straight with an improperly clocked barrel. I reinstalled with a different gas block and it functioned fine but I sent it in to Chad for a possible fix and to make a video/use in his classes as an example.
If you notice copper fouling on the gas port is opposite direction of the oblong hole of the barrel pin. My guess is the barrel was put in a fixture at the factory and they tried to torque the sight to the left which broke the pin. I’m at 10:32 in the vid. Maybe he says that later. I have an older PSA when every M4 rifle from them was mil spec and back then the only problem people were reporting was it was iffy weather the barrel nut would have antiseize or not. I think all the mass produced rifles these days are running on too small a labor force for the throughput of product and that’s why these quality control issues pop up so much now.
Never buy a blemish, you can’t say for certain if it will perform flawlessly. That’s like buying a “factory second” parachute. Really not an area to skimp.
@@ElderGuy729 I have a 16” psa Blem rifle. I’ve put about 6000 rounds through it with no problems. Performs same as my Aero precision which was almost double the price.
I was in QC at a major truck manufacturer for 25 years, and I had more than my share of arguments with production supervisors AND QC upper management. I've seen some sketchy things go down the line. We were told not to right up some things, and got into trouble if we did. A bit of advice.... if a tractor-trailer pulls up along side you on the interstate... get away from it.
Ive drove CDL-A for 20yrs and worked on em for 4 and i can affirm ,if the rig looks like crap, it is crap so get way from it . Most especially yellow freight and its minions.
Here's my hypothesis on the confluence of issues: The barrel extension was out of spec and/or installed improperly; this results in the headspace issue. When it was then installed in an upper, it was over-torqued to get the gas tube to align with the barrel nut (maybe the bad extension, against which the nut torques, had something to do with this), and that probably sheared the index pin and rotated the whole barrel a bit, resulting in the lugs misaligning. It was later observed that the front sight base was canted, so instead of uncovering the root of the issue, PSA just redrilled the pin holes and straightened the FSB, even though the barrel alignment underneath it was still a problem. I think a logical progression can trace every observed symptom back to a bad extension.
@@SchooloftheAmericanRifle i've got this same, shit ass grade barrel from psa. the fsb is canted. i'm gonna check mine for lug damage, if i find it, how do i send the upper to you for a tear down and video on it. unlike the guy who sent this barrel to you mine is fully assembled still.
@@MrSGL21 i bought a "preimum" fn chf upper last week. Front sight canted. I guarentee psa buys blems or 2nds from FN and sells them as their top teir. Good luck getting in touch with anyone in CS.
@@tommcfarland5368 " I guarentee psa buys blems or 2nds from FN and sells them as their top teir. " You might just need to, in as much as if they don't, or if you can't prove in a court of law that they do, what you said there would seem Defamatory. If I were PSA and if PSA wasn't buying blems or 2nds from FN, I'd be tempted to make you back that "Guarantee" with facts, in court. 😉 Now "Suspect" suspect is another word you could of used. . . . . but , you know. . . to each his own.
I had a BCM barrel rotate and the bolt started peening the BE after 2500 rounds, so bad QC can happen with any company. A nearly $800 screwup. I also threw together a PSA 10.5 Upper pistol build that didn’t have the FSB using a spikes lower that’s gone about 4000 rounds that so far has passed the gauges. So who knows.
Man! You have some really nice tools. This shows that you, sir, are a "professional". I once had an Army officer tell me that I had no respect for authority, I told him to show me an authority and I would show him all the respect that he deserves.
Everyone is forgetting about covid parts and this goes for anything made during covid A LOT of things got sent out with issues to keep company's afloat
I can't agree MORE with that statement. On my last build I went with Criterion Hybrid 18" 1-8 Barrel and a matched bolt. Then we matched a Rubber City Armory Extremely Lightweight BCG to it. This rifle was built as a coyote hunting rifle. Thats why we went 1-8 Twist on a 223 Wylde chamber. After hand lapping the upper receiver to the barrel. And with ammo tailored to this barrel (55gr Hornady V-Max) It shoots 1/8"- 1/4" groups all day at 100 yrds off a simple bipod. So yea, you're on the right path with your thinking.
Agree. For many it's changing up furniture and outward details while the guts should be first priority. Even with a PSA, one can upgrade key parts over time till you essentially have no PSA anymore. A layaway plan for a quality rifle where you still get access to something while engaging the development of the system.
@@snoozeyoulose9416 Agree completely with that "layaway plan" mentality. Especially in an era where there's shortage of firearms, parts, ammo. Can't necessarily get the gun you desire, as a complete. Might have a many-months wait and who knows what sorts of legislation the current Congress will pass while you're waiting. Bird in the hand, etc.
3 months ago, I built my AR15. I’d never shot one, and clumsily handled one once. My rifle is awesome! I’m intensely curious about understanding the AR platform. Chad’s videos explain things that I want to know. Thank you so much, Chad! /Respect!
What a professional! I am a former machinist and I am very impressed with Chad's skills. I am so glad that I found this video. Please keep posting. If you notice all the gauges and tools he has. These are very expensive and it is why gunsmiths much charge what they do.
I wish I would have seen this video before I shipped my 10.5 barrel back today. I appreciate your time and explanation you provided me here. It sure helps a novice understand an AR15 barrel.
Thanks so much for posting this video. People need to understand that no one should order parts, especially bolts and barrels, from various suppliers and just assume they'll fit properly. You're the man!
Looking at the way the pin sheared, it was definitely broken during installation and not removal. You can see where the LH (from shooter's side) of the pin tore away first. You can see where it looks like the LH side of the pin sheared and the RH looks more like a tension break.
All you really need is chamber gauges. There are three types no- go gauge ,go gauge and Field gauge . Typically you can get away with the no-go gauge and go- gauge.
A few weeks ago, I had short stroking and feeding issues on my 10.5 PSA build. Ended up finding 2 broken gas rings and a sheared firing pin retainer pin. Only had 500 rounds through this gun. Ended up ordering a toolcraft bolt and carrier to replace the PSA. I fixed the original PSA, and now have it as a back up for my AR's. Its unfortunate, but seems like inferior metallurgy in the gas rings and retainer pin.
A lot of BCGs out there have roughly-machined carrier bores, which are then chromed or nitrided. As the gas rings articulate back and forth inside those non-spec bores, the gas rings get thrashed and torn apart quickly. It's one of the first things I look at before I allow a bolt carrier to be considered for assembly with the other parts. There are a lot of cheap gas rings out there as well that aren't made from the materials or processes called out in the TDP.
@@T_D_B_ 1 inch makes huge difference in the dwell time and the pressure, The gas port locations and gas tube length also greatly effect forces applied to the internals. The Pig Tail pistol gas tube that had a few wraps around the barrel to give it longer length like carbine gas system had actual advantages. For as bad as 10.5 barrels are you see the abuse and destruction a 7 inch 5.56 barrel does. That shorter barrel is trade off and then crosses a threshold of more problems and way shorter life even in a semi auto.
I bought a PSA 10.5" Premium upper back in 2017 and it's been a great shooter. Even mounted it on a full auto post sample NFA lower and ran crazy amount of ammo out of it on a 102degree day. Never once had a problem. However, I have no doubt that the newer PSA uppers are having issues. Most people buy the bottom of the barrel cheap PSA uppers and naturally have problems with them. I do think the "premium" PSA barrels and uppers are of decent quality for the value.
@@buckaroobonsi555 I agree with most of what you say. However PSA has stated that their "premium" barrels are made by FN and mine does have FN markings on it. The premium barrels are also chrome lined and their regular barrels (non FN) aren't. Now, that's just higher quality parts, so the production at the same PSA facility is the same as you mentioned and could be less than favorable. Also, BCM does have two separate options and price points. If you look online at BCM barrels on their website you'll see two different price points on most of their barrels. One is a cold hammered forged option and the other is a button forged option which is cheaper. So, this practice is not uncommon with many companies. I personally would take a FN barrel over BCM. But I would definitely take a BCM barrel over the regular non premium PSA barrel for sure. My 'go to war' AR is a BCM too. So, I don't think I'm being biased.
Very educational. Very glad i watched. Watched some early videos also. The Rosco barrel video big education on wear also. Would love to see this kind of look at all manufacturers with the the same use and rounds thru them.
That was an amazing video. It's been a long time since I've learned so many new things from a single video. I have a Radical AR-15 with some 20,000 rounds on it. It's still shooting. I use it as a beater gun in tactical shooting. I'm sure your Gauges and Barrel Scope would show some amazing things!
Depending on when you get your PSA stuff, a few years back their QC was kinda crap... these days it is very solid and they WILL make any issues right... coming from a multiple PSA AR owner.... granted mine are .300AAC
Unless you’re shooting out barrels frequently you might find it to be a better investment to buy a barrel from a company that performs similar QC proceedures on all of their barrels
@@bootgrip6 Who does that though? Its not like there is a mfg out there who you cant get a lemon from. He has had expensive barrels like LMT on here have issues.
i agree with what others have said, too many dudes are gunsmithing and pushing the limits (myself included) the difference is guys like myself that know and admit when we maybe broke something and others that will just blame the part that broke. its like JDM tuning all over again
I’ve seen it several times...Improper use of reaction rod to use to tighten barrel nut instead of the receiver where the threads actually reside. Customers call in time and time again and it’s always the case.
I'm the person that removed that barrel. The owner of the barrel purchased the upper without a bolt carrier assembly and he did not put it to immediate use. When he tried to use it, the bolt would not enter the barrel extension at all. I told him that the barrel was out of index from the factory and would not be usable. I said possibly a new barrel extension might work but the barrel as it stood was unusable. We then agreed to remove the barrel from the upper. I used a reaction rod. The barrel nut really would not budge even with a breaker bar on it. I then used a dead blow mallet (not something I would usually do) and, finally, the nut moved. Regarding the front sight pins, that was as they appeared from the factory. Whether I sheared the barrel extension pin or it was like that from the factory, I couldn't tell you for sure. The impacts on the extension lugs is from the reaction rod.
". The barrel nut really would not budge even with a breaker bar on it. " i recently rebarreled a psa upper. it was a nightmare. those motherfuckers dry humped the barrel to over 100 ft lbs with no lube. i had to use the dremel god and cut to relief cuts in the barrel nut.
WHOA. Wait one second. You're saying the lug damage was from the reaction rod and that the end user never was able to get a bolt carrier to close on this barrel. that means the end user never fired this barrel. he couldn't have. but the barrel is used. its been fired. and that means PSA is recycling used parts and selling stuff as new.
Jeremy N Yes, unfired. He bought it without a bolt carrier assembly. That’s why he did not know the bolt would not enter the barrel extension until years after. ( I don’t know exactly how long.) To be fair, I have gotten many things from PSA and they were perfectly fine. I also used to do Colt warranty service in NYC when they had warranty stations and they were not perfect either.
this is for the best. you shouldn't be using such a short barrel for 556 anyway. the owner should go with at least 14 inches or switch to 300 aac blk. other wise your practically waiting your ammo. unburned powder and unused potential air expansion. I know you want a sorter barrel of home defense CQB, and I know that 556 is the standard round for AR15s, but its as useable as a Miata with a V8.
Can you share some of the manufactures that are in your bin of shame? Curious if it's primarily the low cost brands or if you have any top tier barrels in there also.
@Tom Cizzle yes, every Manufacturer makes lemons. How they handle them isn't always good. Certain companies are terrible at actually diagnosing and fixing problems.
@Ell Roth The bins of shame include many companies. The intent is not to shsme or sway who to buy from, it's only to show that parts can be terribly out of spec, be worn where the eye can't detect, or to show catastrophic issues. Beyond PSA, few companies have a problem with what I teach.
@@SchooloftheAmericanRifle you're right, with even the "best" of modern machining there are bound to be lemons that slip through QC and can cause some tolerance stacking or bigger issues unless you check EVERY part made like you do... PSA and BCA are on "my" list among a couple others, basically anything cheaper than Aero is a waste of time and no-go for me, decent QC and good customer service for the ones that do "slip" through.
As a machinist myself, I can say that these lemons should be caught and batched back to the tool breakage or zeroing error. There's no reason in a precision manufacturing setting to miss more than 1 out of 1000... Unless you just aren't employing QC or other machinists checking them off the line.
Extremely informative video. What set of gauges do you recommend that someone should obtain prior to purchasing an AR rifle, since it appears that some manufacturers have issues with supplying not fit for use parts? Would you also provide us with a list of the various gauges that you are using. I would also like to know which manufacturer has the lowest defect rate.
I thought the same thing, It's CHF and CL for me on any sort of fighting rifle build. Military's have been using them world wide for years and I believe it's the best barrel for high round counts and over all toughness.
You take people at their word far too much. People love exaggerating details or even flat out hiding the truth. Take everything you hear from someone holding a broken anything with a few pounds of salt.
I have the exact same 10.5” 5.56 barrel with 900 rounds through it(I’ve been keeping track) and it’s just discolored from the heat, no erosion so I’m not sure what this guy did
I have a midlength 16 inch barrel from them and I've put about 2000 rounds through it with the worst of it 500 rounds in one day in pretty much one sitting. This guy had to of done something or the coating wasn't right. I've never seen a barrel erode like that it sounds like someone was doing something they weren't supposed to be doing.
A lot of what's being sold as nitride is nitride in name only. To save money, they use the same process, but at much lower temperatures, with lower concentrations of the essential chemicals.
I think there was a burr on the inside of the lugs in the barrel extension that interfered with the gauge. That barrel had been shot a bit and that would be hard to do if the barrel extension was off that much to not take the gauge.
Very interesting. It seems like using a reaction rod that goes into the barrel extension would keep it from shearing off, not make it more likely. What makes it more likely?
The fact that now you're trying to torque the extension through the index pin. A barrel vise is many times the proper tool, but Giessle doesn't sell that.... I have a collection of oak blocks with different holes for various barrel tapers. It's not hard to hold a barrel with oak and rosin. Only action wrenches I use are for bolt guns that will only see 40-60 ft lbs.
I bought a PSA barrel for a build project. Out of the box I found the index pin was severely canted. Sent it back for an exchange. Replacement barrel arrived and its index pin was also visibly canted, but not as bad as the 1st barrel so I figured I would give it a try. After the install I found the front sight post was not aligned vertically and the barrel extension was not clocked correctly causing the bolt head to crash on the extension. I removed the flash hider, front sight post and barrel nut/delta ring from the barrel and threw the barrel in the trash. Never again, PSA, never again.
Unfortunately I’ve seen many PSA barrels have their gas port drilled off center instead of at the 12 o’clock position (usually at the 1 o’clock position). I don’t know why this is, but they still functioned, but is a sign of bad QC. I’ve seen them on both their nitride barrels and top end FN CHF barrels. Great video as always.
How did this barrel pass inspection from the manufacturer, before assembly, sale and distribution? A recall notice should go out from the manufacturer.
Does anyone else get massive anxiety watching these videos thinking you need to check every part of your rifle because something MUST be wrong with it now :’d
I use to love PSA but recently their quality control has taken a dump. This year alone i ordered a stripped lower receiver and after getting it I immediately realized how far out of spec it was, improperly machined trigger and hammer pin holes, the detent hole for the safety selector was drilled off center and on an angle. Nothing about the lower was close to being in spec. And to add fuel to the fire the replacement they send out was worse, chatter marks in the hammer / trigger pin holes and the safety selector and detent hole butchered which sums up both lowers. Two buffer tubes they sent me were also very poor and way out of spec to where they could not properly be indexed, both of which also had heavy tooling marks. Don't even get me started with the LPK's. Their products look like they were manufactured in someone's basement, I don't believe they have any qualified gun smith's handling their products. The lowers they make in house are nothing more then a paper weight. When it comes to firearms quality and consistency is everything these aren't toys these are tools to which you have to have 100% confidence in because your life may depend on it, something PSA gives zero Fu*** about. Sorry for the rant but PSA is a no go...
I’d love to have a set of those gages. Most I could make if I had specs but a few would be difficult! I’m a gage maker in aerospace mfg. Idea on how much they all cost?
I have multiple AR builds from PSA, most of their stuff holds up! Also a big thing with PSA is if you get a bad lemon they have awesome customer service.
Welp, I suppose this is the reason why I trust my Noveske to protect my life and not my PSA.... I'm sad, now I need to go check my PSA barrel lugs. Lol. These are the kinds of problems I would expect to see when you have the massive amount of production that PSA has.
I love these videos, I remember when I first found you I forgot the account name and couldn’t find any of your videos, almost thought your account got taken down. Definitely dropping a sub this time so that doesn’t happen
A guy at work just bought a PSA 14.7 CHF chrome lined barreled upper. It was basically the only rifle upper they had available on the website, hopefully it’s good to go. I got a complete gun with a 10.5 inch barrel about five years ago. Got lucky with that one it runs perfectly.
I'd personally be more concerned with the assembly at psa then the parts. Your fn barrel is probably good to go but who know if it was assembled by an asshat. If you had to make 200 uppers a day you would be flying through them and no doubt a small percentage would be off in some spec.
Amazing video. So net, net, how do you buy a high quality barrel that leaves all these problems behind? What is estimated price? What are a couple of reliable mfrs?
I have a PSA barreled upper that also has a canted FSB. My pin holes are way uglier than this one, but they are obviously misaligned. I haven’t been able to detect any issues with the pin or lugs though.
I wouldnt necessarily scrap that barrel. Couldnt the chamber be cut slightly deeper (unless its case hardened or chromed) and just fabricate and install a stepped pin for orientation? A bit of fine deburr work on the barrel extension to clean up the raised metal. I guess I'm biased because I am a machinist by trade.
Good video but why in the Hell would ANYBODY try and repair a goddamn $80 barrel?? Just throw it the Hell away and buy a new one. Hell you can buy their compete 10.5" uppers for $159 when on sale. And man do you have some nice tools and gauges!!
cfltitan you’ve obviously not been on psa’s website in a while. Show me a place you can buy a 159$ complete ar upper of any size or caliber and I’ll buy it right now for shits and giggles. Those days are long gone Chico.
Pepperidge Farm Remembers $159 uppers and 26 CPR fro 1k of brass 5.56 ammo They also remember $80 dollar Mosin Nagant Rifles with $60 880rd cases of ammo in spam cans too.. Those salad days of $159 uppers were years ago and long gone. Now $159 is what you're looking at for barrel that isn't a sketchy company with a several week wait. Last Year (2019) PSA started jacking their prices on the July 4th sales , doing away with free shipping, sending your upper and full kits in boxes 1/3 the size for the same cost of shipping and handling. Which is $17 for and per each one in the crappy new boxes is even more of rip off. PSA has been following the decent of Classic Arms after digging themselves out of hole they got in by using lower quality vendors. Which their in house stuff has gotten better but their prices were climbing long before Corona Virus /COVID-19 was even heard of. There was no panic buying from mass shooting and no ban talks, That might trigger an increase in price to try and slow demand so they could catch up. With the Riots in June 2020 and the on going gun panic sales heading to an election cycle panic buying.......it may be 2022-2025 (up like a rocket down like feather) before prices finally start to come back down reasonable levels with in stock items. Where you aren't waiting on companies that normally ship by the next business day(same day if in before noon their time) to having notices of 1-2 week processing delays on all orders till being able to ship due to back logs.
Are there any other conditions that can cause damage to the feeding side of the barrel extension lugs like that? I've got peening of this nature on my AR and am trying to diagnose it.
The UA-cam rabbit hole. Happens to me all the time. Start by watching funny animals or something then end up at some random shit not knowing how I got there
Just curious. I noticed the locking lug area looks dirty. Doesn't it make a difference in performing all specification checks with the gauges if the barrel internal surfaces are not not clean?
With any firearm, the first thing I do at the range is fire a factory cartridge and check it for pressure signs. Repeat for total of 5 rounds, then throughly examine the cases. How could someone fire up to 500 rounds through this barrel?
Maybe someone tried to straighten the sight and sheared (or started shearing) the barrel pin in the process...? Anyway, thanks for the HEADSpace-UP, I'll have to check my AR for signs...wonder if there is anyone around here who has the gauges?
Very interesting. Wonder if PSA would send him another barrel in this case? Seems really like a manufacture or assembly issue for sure. Good stuff! Lots of great info here.
jbarker83 PSA 100% broke that index pin in the installation by over torquing the barrel nut, which is the reason why the front sight block was canted and had to have a shoddy repair done to it.
I enjoyed that, a lot of good useful info. I have built several ARs for myself and take it as serous as possible but now I can step it up. I'm going to use your video to find and order all the tools needed. Do you go to the trouble of fitting the bolt head to the barrel/barrel extension on builds? I have and ended up with a bunch of bolt heads that don't seem to fit well in any barrel I find.
So I was the owner of this barrel.
It came as a complete upper from PSA.
From the factory none of my bolt carriers would go into battery.
The upper was dead on arrival.
I disassembled the upper and discovered that PSA had sheered the index pin and installed the front sight base to look straight with an improperly clocked barrel.
I reinstalled with a different gas block and it functioned fine but I sent it in to Chad for a possible fix and to make a video/use in his classes as an example.
If you notice copper fouling on the gas port is opposite direction of the oblong hole of the barrel pin. My guess is the barrel was put in a fixture at the factory and they tried to torque the sight to the left which broke the pin. I’m at 10:32 in the vid. Maybe he says that later. I have an older PSA when every M4 rifle from them was mil spec and back then the only problem people were reporting was it was iffy weather the barrel nut would have antiseize or not. I think all the mass produced rifles these days are running on too small a labor force for the throughput of product and that’s why these quality control issues pop up so much now.
@@NecessaryWall So purchase new old stock or used and well kept? Lol
When you bought it as a blem, but cant find the blem.
lol...
Never buy a blemish, you can’t say for certain if it will perform flawlessly. That’s like buying a “factory second” parachute. Really not an area to skimp.
@@ElderGuy729 if the gun is intended for defense i agree, but I wouldn't say never buy a blemished
@@ElderGuy729 I have a 16” psa Blem rifle. I’ve put about 6000 rounds through it with no problems. Performs same as my Aero precision which was almost double the price.
@@ElderGuy729 as long as it’s not a bcg, barrel , trigger and buffer spring-buffer you should be golden always check though
I was in QC at a major truck manufacturer for 25 years, and I had more than my share of arguments with production supervisors AND QC upper management. I've seen some sketchy things go down the line. We were told not to right up some things, and got into trouble if we did. A bit of advice.... if a tractor-trailer pulls up along side you on the interstate... get away from it.
Same is done in the oil field in which I'm a machinist in.
Ive drove CDL-A for 20yrs and worked on em for 4 and i can affirm ,if the rig looks like crap, it is crap so get way from it .
Most especially yellow freight and its minions.
Great. Now I can't sleep until I completely dissect my AR. Thanks.
Here's my hypothesis on the confluence of issues: The barrel extension was out of spec and/or installed improperly; this results in the headspace issue. When it was then installed in an upper, it was over-torqued to get the gas tube to align with the barrel nut (maybe the bad extension, against which the nut torques, had something to do with this), and that probably sheared the index pin and rotated the whole barrel a bit, resulting in the lugs misaligning. It was later observed that the front sight base was canted, so instead of uncovering the root of the issue, PSA just redrilled the pin holes and straightened the FSB, even though the barrel alignment underneath it was still a problem. I think a logical progression can trace every observed symptom back to a bad extension.
I think you’re spot on.
Doktor Faustus,
I agree. I just can t say with a definitive answer since I didn't tear it down from it's factory state.
@@SchooloftheAmericanRifle i've got this same, shit ass grade barrel from psa. the fsb is canted. i'm gonna check mine for lug damage, if i find it, how do i send the upper to you for a tear down and video on it. unlike the guy who sent this barrel to you mine is fully assembled still.
@@MrSGL21 i bought a "preimum" fn chf upper last week. Front sight canted. I guarentee psa buys blems or 2nds from FN and sells them as their top teir. Good luck getting in touch with anyone in CS.
@@tommcfarland5368 " I guarentee psa buys blems or 2nds from FN and sells them as their top teir. "
You might just need to, in as much as if they don't, or if you can't prove in a court of law that they do, what you said there would seem Defamatory.
If I were PSA and if PSA wasn't buying blems or 2nds from FN, I'd be tempted to make you back that "Guarantee" with facts, in court. 😉
Now "Suspect" suspect is another word you could of used. . . . . but , you know. . . to each his own.
I had a BCM barrel rotate and the bolt started peening the BE after 2500 rounds, so bad QC can happen with any company. A nearly $800 screwup. I also threw together a PSA 10.5 Upper pistol build that didn’t have the FSB using a spikes lower that’s gone about 4000 rounds that so far has passed the gauges. So who knows.
If it’s human made there is margin for error. Some companies are worse than others at detecting
@@rifleshooterchannel208 lol I call BS. Sounds like user error
That’s because PSA IS THE BEST EVERRRRRRR!
Man! You have some really nice tools. This shows that you, sir, are a "professional".
I once had an Army officer tell me that I had no respect for authority, I told him to show me an authority and I would show him all the respect that he deserves.
based
You have gotten my attention. I am searching Brownells and elsewhere for similar tools and gauges.
Everyone is forgetting about covid parts and this goes for anything made during covid A LOT of things got sent out with issues to keep company's afloat
Here is why you spend most of your build money on BCG'S AND BARREL'S!
I can't agree MORE with that statement. On my last build I went with Criterion Hybrid 18" 1-8 Barrel and a matched bolt. Then we matched a Rubber City Armory Extremely Lightweight BCG to it. This rifle was built as a coyote hunting rifle. Thats why we went 1-8 Twist on a 223 Wylde chamber. After hand lapping the upper receiver to the barrel. And with ammo tailored to this barrel (55gr Hornady V-Max) It shoots 1/8"- 1/4" groups all day at 100 yrds off a simple bipod. So yea, you're on the right path with your thinking.
Agree. For many it's changing up furniture and outward details while the guts should be first priority. Even with a PSA, one can upgrade key parts over time till you essentially have no PSA anymore. A layaway plan for a quality rifle where you still get access to something while engaging the development of the system.
@@snoozeyoulose9416 Agree completely with that "layaway plan" mentality. Especially in an era where there's shortage of firearms, parts, ammo. Can't necessarily get the gun you desire, as a complete. Might have a many-months wait and who knows what sorts of legislation the current Congress will pass while you're waiting. Bird in the hand, etc.
@@seanoneil277 Definitely.
Seems like barrels are the biggest quality shifters
3 months ago, I built my AR15. I’d never shot one, and clumsily handled one once. My rifle is awesome! I’m intensely curious about understanding the AR platform. Chad’s videos explain things that I want to know. Thank you so much, Chad! /Respect!
Very thorough testing and I'm impressed with your selection of armory tools. I appreciated your video very much
What a professional! I am a former machinist and I am very impressed with Chad's skills. I am so glad that I found this video. Please keep posting. If you notice all the gauges and tools he has. These are very expensive and it is why gunsmiths much charge what they do.
OMG ur asskisser game is on point.
Absolutely impressed by the knowledge that Chad has. Razor sharp. I would give anything to be able to download his brain
Some of the best AR information on the web. Thank you!
I wish I would have seen this video before I shipped my 10.5 barrel back today. I appreciate your time and explanation you provided me here. It sure helps a novice understand an AR15 barrel.
Thanks so much for posting this video. People need to understand that no one should order parts, especially bolts and barrels, from various suppliers and just assume they'll fit properly. You're the man!
your videos are very helpful and informative. You should have at least 100k subscribers.
Looking at the way the pin sheared, it was definitely broken during installation and not removal. You can see where the LH (from shooter's side) of the pin tore away first. You can see where it looks like the LH side of the pin sheared and the RH looks more like a tension break.
could you maybe do a video on what the basic gauges people should have to check and keep their ar-15s running. would be super helpful
I have that list along with a tiered tools list in my Facebook group.
Instructor Chad i dont have Facebook so now what
Instructor Chad I don’t use FB. Would you be willing to post a list here or link to one?
@@SchooloftheAmericanRifle I also don't use FB =S
SDI student here, thanks for the video.
All you really need is chamber gauges. There are three types no- go gauge ,go gauge and Field gauge . Typically you can get away with the no-go gauge and go- gauge.
A few weeks ago, I had short stroking and feeding issues on my 10.5 PSA build. Ended up finding 2 broken gas rings and a sheared firing pin retainer pin. Only had 500 rounds through this gun. Ended up ordering a toolcraft bolt and carrier to replace the PSA. I fixed the original PSA, and now have it as a back up for my AR's. Its unfortunate, but seems like inferior metallurgy in the gas rings and retainer pin.
Maybe the inside if the bolt carrier is out of spec or the chrome is?
A lot of BCGs out there have roughly-machined carrier bores, which are then chromed or nitrided. As the gas rings articulate back and forth inside those non-spec bores, the gas rings get thrashed and torn apart quickly. It's one of the first things I look at before I allow a bolt carrier to be considered for assembly with the other parts. There are a lot of cheap gas rings out there as well that aren't made from the materials or processes called out in the TDP.
@@UMADBRO64 hahahaha so 1 inch makes all the difference eh? (That's what she said heh)
@@T_D_B_ 1 inch makes huge difference in the dwell time and the pressure, The gas port locations and gas tube length also greatly effect forces applied to the internals. The Pig Tail pistol gas tube that had a few wraps around the barrel to give it longer length like carbine gas system had actual advantages. For as bad as 10.5 barrels are you see the abuse and destruction a 7 inch 5.56 barrel does. That shorter barrel is trade off and then crosses a threshold of more problems and way shorter life even in a semi auto.
OnValkyrieWings MK18 mod 2 wtf are you talking about. The Block 3 MK18 barrels are CHF Daniel Defense 10 inch barrels with Mk12 gas blocks.
Watching your videos is like being in a Forensic Science lab. 👍
Subbed because these are the only autopsy videos that still turn my stomach
I bought a PSA 10.5" Premium upper back in 2017 and it's been a great shooter. Even mounted it on a full auto post sample NFA lower and ran crazy amount of ammo out of it on a 102degree day. Never once had a problem. However, I have no doubt that the newer PSA uppers are having issues. Most people buy the bottom of the barrel cheap PSA uppers and naturally have problems with them. I do think the "premium" PSA barrels and uppers are of decent quality for the value.
@@buckaroobonsi555
I agree with most of what you say.
However PSA has stated that their "premium" barrels are made by FN and mine does have FN markings on it. The premium barrels are also chrome lined and their regular barrels (non FN) aren't.
Now, that's just higher quality parts, so the production at the same PSA facility is the same as you mentioned and could be less than favorable.
Also, BCM does have two separate options and price points. If you look online at BCM barrels on their website you'll see two different price points on most of their barrels. One is a cold hammered forged option and the other is a button forged option which is cheaper. So, this practice is not uncommon with many companies. I personally would take a FN barrel over BCM. But I would definitely take a BCM barrel over the regular non premium PSA barrel for sure. My 'go to war' AR is a BCM too. So, I don't think I'm being biased.
Very educational. Very glad i watched. Watched some early videos also. The Rosco barrel video big education on wear also. Would love to see this kind of look at all manufacturers with the the same use and rounds thru them.
I have 2 PSA uppers, both have a canted front sight.
That was an amazing video. It's been a long time since I've learned so many new things from a single video.
I have a Radical AR-15 with some 20,000 rounds on it. It's still shooting. I use it as a beater gun in tactical shooting. I'm sure your Gauges and Barrel Scope would show some amazing things!
send him the barrel
I was just in an armorer class, and the instructor had those rimless headspace gauges. Very clever idea!
Sons of Liberty?
@@SchooloftheAmericanRifle Triton Training Group.
Wow. PSA seems to be pretty proud of their barrels, too.
Depending on when you get your PSA stuff, a few years back their QC was kinda crap... these days it is very solid and they WILL make any issues right... coming from a multiple PSA AR owner.... granted mine are .300AAC
Seamus RBNW Id like to have one of their GF3 AKs. They sell out fast though
I need to get some of those gauges.
For real
better have deep pockets they aint cheep
@@freebird1ification quality ain't cheap
Unless you’re shooting out barrels frequently you might find it to be a better investment to buy a barrel from a company that performs similar QC proceedures on all of their barrels
@@bootgrip6 Who does that though? Its not like there is a mfg out there who you cant get a lemon from. He has had expensive barrels like LMT on here have issues.
Great demo of headspace - a bonus to the index pin issue. So much fail with that barrel.
i agree with what others have said, too many dudes are gunsmithing and pushing the limits (myself included) the difference is guys like myself that know and admit when we maybe broke something and others that will just blame the part that broke.
its like JDM tuning all over again
Great stuff! You never know what you're putting together unless you have every component inspected and data verified...
Good best smithing video . Psa looks realy good . Nice stuff.
I’ve seen it several times...Improper use of reaction rod to use to tighten barrel nut instead of the receiver where the threads actually reside. Customers call in time and time again and it’s always the case.
Great vid brada ppl dont understand how important headspacing is
I'm the person that removed that barrel. The owner of the barrel purchased the upper without a bolt carrier assembly and he did not put it to immediate use. When he tried to use it, the bolt would not enter the barrel extension at all. I told him that the barrel was out of index from the factory and would not be usable. I said possibly a new barrel extension might work but the barrel as it stood was unusable. We then agreed to remove the barrel from the upper. I used a reaction rod. The barrel nut really would not budge even with a breaker bar on it. I then used a dead blow mallet (not something I would usually do) and, finally, the nut moved. Regarding the front sight pins, that was as they appeared from the factory. Whether I sheared the barrel extension pin or it was like that from the factory, I couldn't tell you for sure. The impacts on the extension lugs is from the reaction rod.
Apparently that's an issue with using a reaction rod on over torqued barrel nuts. Sheering of the index pins
". The barrel nut really would not budge even with a breaker bar on it. " i recently rebarreled a psa upper. it was a nightmare. those motherfuckers dry humped the barrel to over 100 ft lbs with no lube. i had to use the dremel god and cut to relief cuts in the barrel nut.
WHOA. Wait one second.
You're saying the lug damage was from the reaction rod and that the end user never was able to get a bolt carrier to close on this barrel.
that means the end user never fired this barrel. he couldn't have.
but the barrel is used. its been fired.
and that means PSA is recycling used parts and selling stuff as new.
Wait.. you’re saying the owner never fired a round through this barrel??
Jeremy N Yes, unfired. He bought it without a bolt carrier assembly. That’s why he did not know the bolt would not enter the barrel extension until years after. ( I don’t know exactly how long.) To be fair, I have gotten many things from PSA and they were perfectly fine. I also used to do Colt warranty service in NYC when they had warranty stations and they were not perfect either.
this is for the best. you shouldn't be using such a short barrel for 556 anyway. the owner should go with at least 14 inches or switch to 300 aac blk. other wise your practically waiting your ammo. unburned powder and unused potential air expansion. I know you want a sorter barrel of home defense CQB, and I know that 556 is the standard round for AR15s, but its as useable as a Miata with a V8.
Can you share some of the manufactures that are in your bin of shame? Curious if it's primarily the low cost brands or if you have any top tier barrels in there also.
@Tom Cizzle yes, every Manufacturer makes lemons. How they handle them isn't always good. Certain companies are terrible at actually diagnosing and fixing problems.
@Ell Roth
The bins of shame include many companies. The intent is not to shsme or sway who to buy from, it's only to show that parts can be terribly out of spec, be worn where the eye can't detect, or to show catastrophic issues.
Beyond PSA, few companies have a problem with what I teach.
@@SchooloftheAmericanRifle you're right, with even the "best" of modern machining there are bound to be lemons that slip through QC and can cause some tolerance stacking or bigger issues unless you check EVERY part made like you do... PSA and BCA are on "my" list among a couple others, basically anything cheaper than Aero is a waste of time and no-go for me, decent QC and good customer service for the ones that do "slip" through.
As a machinist myself, I can say that these lemons should be caught and batched back to the tool breakage or zeroing error.
There's no reason in a precision manufacturing setting to miss more than 1 out of 1000... Unless you just aren't employing QC or other machinists checking them off the line.
The answer to that question is stated above. (They did not want to here about it and fired anyone that made them aware of the sooty work)
Thank You, I learned a lot from this video.
Extremely informative video. What set of gauges do you recommend that someone should obtain prior to purchasing an AR rifle, since it appears that some manufacturers have issues with supplying not fit for use parts? Would you also provide us with a list of the various gauges that you are using. I would also like to know which manufacturer has the lowest defect rate.
Super interesting video. My first time seeing one of there. Thanks
Now this is the kind of video that I i nerd out on
So much for nitride! That erosion was horrible for only a few hundred rounds
I thought the same thing, It's CHF and CL for me on any sort of fighting rifle build. Military's have been using them world wide for years and I believe it's the best barrel for high round counts and over all toughness.
You take people at their word far too much. People love exaggerating details or even flat out hiding the truth. Take everything you hear from someone holding a broken anything with a few pounds of salt.
I have the exact same 10.5” 5.56 barrel with 900 rounds through it(I’ve been keeping track) and it’s just discolored from the heat, no erosion so I’m not sure what this guy did
I have a midlength 16 inch barrel from them and I've put about 2000 rounds through it with the worst of it 500 rounds in one day in pretty much one sitting. This guy had to of done something or the coating wasn't right. I've never seen a barrel erode like that it sounds like someone was doing something they weren't supposed to be doing.
A lot of what's being sold as nitride is nitride in name only. To save money, they use the same process, but at much lower temperatures, with lower concentrations of the essential chemicals.
Informative video. Thanks for posting 👍🏻
I think there was a burr on the inside of the lugs in the barrel extension that interfered with the gauge. That barrel had been shot a bit and that would be hard to do if the barrel extension was off that much to not take the gauge.
Very interesting. It seems like using a reaction rod that goes into the barrel extension would keep it from shearing off, not make it more likely. What makes it more likely?
Turning the nut puts twisting force on the receiver threads.
The fact that now you're trying to torque the extension through the index pin.
A barrel vise is many times the proper tool, but Giessle doesn't sell that....
I have a collection of oak blocks with different holes for various barrel tapers. It's not hard to hold a barrel with oak and rosin. Only action wrenches I use are for bolt guns that will only see 40-60 ft lbs.
I bought a PSA barrel for a build project. Out of the box I found the index pin was severely canted. Sent it back for an exchange. Replacement barrel arrived and its index pin was also visibly canted, but not as bad as the 1st barrel so I figured I would give it a try. After the install I found the front sight post was not aligned vertically and the barrel extension was not clocked correctly causing the bolt head to crash on the extension.
I removed the flash hider, front sight post and barrel nut/delta ring from the barrel and threw the barrel in the trash. Never again, PSA, never again.
Unfortunately I’ve seen many PSA barrels have their gas port drilled off center instead of at the 12 o’clock position (usually at the 1 o’clock position). I don’t know why this is, but they still functioned, but is a sign of bad QC. I’ve seen them on both their nitride barrels and top end FN CHF barrels. Great video as always.
How did this barrel pass inspection from the manufacturer, before assembly, sale and distribution? A recall notice should go out from the manufacturer.
They dont really check stuff. Thats why they are $250 for a complete upper
Does anyone else get massive anxiety watching these videos thinking you need to check every part of your rifle because something MUST be wrong with it now :’d
Facts bro I’m getting my new psa upper next week and suddenly not as excited anymore 😂
Great video! I sure learn a lot from these videos and as I expected, I have a long way to go with buying tool$.
I use to love PSA but recently their quality control has taken a dump. This year alone i ordered a stripped lower receiver and after getting it I immediately realized how far out of spec it was, improperly machined trigger and hammer pin holes, the detent hole for the safety selector was drilled off center and on an angle. Nothing about the lower was close to being in spec. And to add fuel to the fire the replacement they send out was worse, chatter marks in the hammer / trigger pin holes and the safety selector and detent hole butchered which sums up both lowers. Two buffer tubes they sent me were also very poor and way out of spec to where they could not properly be indexed, both of which also had heavy tooling marks. Don't even get me started with the LPK's. Their products look like they were manufactured in someone's basement, I don't believe they have any qualified gun smith's handling their products. The lowers they make in house are nothing more then a paper weight. When it comes to firearms quality and consistency is everything these aren't toys these are tools to which you have to have 100% confidence in because your life may depend on it, something PSA gives zero Fu*** about. Sorry for the rant but PSA is a no go...
Damn. Seems their QC is bare bones and a lottery game whether you get a good put together product.
I’d love to have a set of those gages. Most I could make if I had specs but a few would be difficult! I’m a gage maker in aerospace mfg.
Idea on how much they all cost?
Wonderful. I get my new 10.5" complete upper from PSA Thursday. Not as excited as I was yesterday.
I have multiple AR builds from PSA, most of their stuff holds up! Also a big thing with PSA is if you get a bad lemon they have awesome customer service.
So after a year later how did it hold up? I’m getting my new psa upper soon 😂
Yeah how'd it do?
After watching all of your videos I’m scared to buy anything!
Wow... really informative. Those tools are neat!
Really great video, I learned alot just from this one,thanks for taking the time to do these very interesting.
Broke on initial tightening! Absolutely. Wonder where the broken pin ended up?
Eye opening, thank you so much! First time viewer and will return.
Welp, I suppose this is the reason why I trust my Noveske to protect my life and not my PSA....
I'm sad, now I need to go check my PSA barrel lugs. Lol.
These are the kinds of problems I would expect to see when you have the massive amount of production that PSA has.
Great video as always! Thanks for the knowledge
Very cool. Thanks for sharing.
Thanks for another super video.👍
Obviously they did this at factory, the index pin was sheared and they "rotated" the front sight to make it strait. All the signs are there.
I love these videos, I remember when I first found you I forgot the account name and couldn’t find any of your videos, almost thought your account got taken down. Definitely dropping a sub this time so that doesn’t happen
EXCELLENT VIDEO! I learned a lot! Thanks!
A guy at work just bought a PSA 14.7 CHF chrome lined barreled upper. It was basically the only rifle upper they had available on the website, hopefully it’s good to go.
I got a complete gun with a 10.5 inch barrel about five years ago. Got lucky with that one it runs perfectly.
I'd personally be more concerned with the assembly at psa then the parts. Your fn barrel is probably good to go but who know if it was assembled by an asshat.
If you had to make 200 uppers a day you would be flying through them and no doubt a small percentage would be off in some spec.
My Aero is clocked to the right just a cock hair, your other vid helped me fix the feed ramps.
Will removing / installing a muzzle device without an action rod break the index pin?
I enjoyed this video so much I subscribed. . . .
Thanks for sharing. I have learned quite a few things. I will be a new subscriber shortly !
Definitely a good channel to watch for me considering I'd like to get into smithing at some point
Most interesting, thank you.
What tool is best to tighten with to avoid breaking index pins? Too bad a beefier design wasn't used from the design of the rifle.
I had one shear off because the factory torque on the barrel nut was waaaaaaaay too high
Amazing video. So net, net, how do you buy a high quality barrel that leaves all these problems behind? What is estimated price? What are a couple of reliable mfrs?
Could you list all the tools you used in this video? Would be good info for the DIY-er at home.
Me, the owner of a fully-assembled PSA 14.5" discount upper purchased for $180 in 2013:
"I'm in danger" 😳
I have a PSA barreled upper that also has a canted FSB. My pin holes are way uglier than this one, but they are obviously misaligned. I haven’t been able to detect any issues with the pin or lugs though.
I wouldnt necessarily scrap that barrel. Couldnt the chamber be cut slightly deeper (unless its case hardened or chromed) and just fabricate and install a stepped pin for orientation? A bit of fine deburr work on the barrel extension to clean up the raised metal. I guess I'm biased because I am a machinist by trade.
Nitride and chromed chambers eat my finishing reamers pretty fast.
Not worth the cost to the owner considering the price of the replacement.
It would make sense that the pin was busted during installation. Which is why they had to fix the gas block/front sight at the factory.
Very informative video. Thanks!
Isn't this like a $75 barrel? Is it even worth sending it in and having the index pin replaced?
I wonder if the owner was trying to torque their barrel in and got overzealous. Shearing that pin and all
Damn you almost had to do one on my PSA 10.5. 😬
Hay brother , very informative . Question , do you have a video on pen removal and replace ?
Good video but why in the Hell would ANYBODY try and repair a goddamn $80 barrel?? Just throw it the Hell away and buy a new one. Hell you can buy their compete 10.5" uppers for $159 when on sale.
And man do you have some nice tools and gauges!!
cfltitan you’ve obviously not been on psa’s website in a while. Show me a place you can buy a 159$ complete ar upper of any size or caliber and I’ll buy it right now for shits and giggles. Those days are long gone Chico.
Pepperidge Farm Remembers $159 uppers and 26 CPR fro 1k of brass 5.56 ammo They also remember $80 dollar Mosin Nagant Rifles with $60 880rd cases of ammo in spam cans too..
Those salad days of $159 uppers were years ago and long gone. Now $159 is what you're looking at for barrel that isn't a sketchy company with a several week wait.
Last Year (2019) PSA started jacking their prices on the July 4th sales , doing away with free shipping, sending your upper and full kits in boxes 1/3 the size for the same cost of shipping and handling. Which is $17 for and per each one in the crappy new boxes is even more of rip off.
PSA has been following the decent of Classic Arms after digging themselves out of hole they got in by using lower quality vendors. Which their in house stuff has gotten better but their prices were climbing long before Corona Virus /COVID-19 was even heard of. There was no panic buying from mass shooting and no ban talks, That might trigger an increase in price to try and slow demand so they could catch up. With the Riots in June 2020 and the on going gun panic sales heading to an election cycle panic buying.......it may be 2022-2025 (up like a rocket down like feather) before prices finally start to come back down reasonable levels with in stock items. Where you aren't waiting on companies that normally ship by the next business day(same day if in before noon their time) to having notices of 1-2 week processing delays on all orders till being able to ship due to back logs.
Are there any other conditions that can cause damage to the feeding side of the barrel extension lugs like that?
I've got peening of this nature on my AR and am trying to diagnose it.
I went from watching memes to watching horror memes to watching people get cut open to watching this to watching guns.
Like what the fuck
The UA-cam rabbit hole. Happens to me all the time. Start by watching funny animals or something then end up at some random shit not knowing how I got there
Just curious. I noticed the locking lug area looks dirty. Doesn't it make a difference in performing all specification checks with the gauges if the barrel internal surfaces are not not clean?
With any firearm, the first thing I do at the range is fire a factory cartridge and check it for pressure signs. Repeat for total of 5 rounds, then throughly examine the cases. How could someone fire up to 500 rounds through this barrel?
Maybe someone tried to straighten the sight and sheared (or started shearing) the barrel pin in the process...?
Anyway, thanks for the HEADSpace-UP, I'll have to check my AR for signs...wonder if there is anyone around here who has the gauges?
Sub'd for knowing your stuff👍 great video thanks for posting.
Good stuff
Had to get my PSA 10.5 out and have a look at it...
Very interesting. Wonder if PSA would send him another barrel in this case? Seems really like a manufacture or assembly issue for sure. Good stuff! Lots of great info here.
jbarker83 PSA 100% broke that index pin in the installation by over torquing the barrel nut, which is the reason why the front sight block was canted and had to have a shoddy repair done to it.
Seems the barrel is not bad, but install/build was poor (as well as subsequent repair)
I enjoyed that, a lot of good useful info. I have built several ARs for myself and take it as serous as possible but now I can step it up. I'm going to use your video to find and order all the tools needed. Do you go to the trouble of fitting the bolt head to the barrel/barrel extension on builds? I have and ended up with a bunch of bolt heads that don't seem to fit well in any barrel I find.
You can probably find a good bladesmith in your area and trade some custom work for those high quality steel paperweights.