Episode 121 Finishing A Guitar With Crystalac CraftNique Pigments And Brite Tone Instrument Finish
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- Опубліковано 28 вер 2024
- In this episode, I share my techniques for using water-based Crystalac products on a guitar body. Every step is covered from sanding the raw wood to buffing out a high gloss finish. Show your support! Visit www.eguitarplan... and buy a plan. Or visit highline-custo... and buy a shirt!
Products used:
Mirka Abranet: amzn.to/2pMpAvJ
Crystalac Store: thecrystalacst...
Earlex 5500 HVLP Spray System: amzn.to/2yvEafc
12" Airway Buffing Wheel: bit.ly/2Ob9irn
12” Soft Flannel Buffing Wheel: bit.ly/2NAgBXZ
Menzerna Medium Solid Compound: amzn.to/2NH6MrG
Menzerna Fine Solid Compound: bit.ly/2JTKCjD
Good explanation but You dont need to explain some other details that not necessarily,, too much talking bit just my opinion, that's why i skip a lot of your video there's a lot of same tutorials you do but more direct talking too much isn't help trust me ,, just my opinion
I have 66,000 subscribers and over 700 videos posted to my channel, which currently has over 11,000,000 views. This video has almost 200,000 views alone. You only have 2 subscribers for one posted video. Your channel has 2 subscribers, one video, and 7 views. Therefore, your opinion is almost, well, useless.
@@HighlineGuitars well im not focusing in my UA-cam channel i dont have a time and you have of course if it is my first priority im pretty sure i will post a better one i have an account for almost 10 years a have a lot of videos but I didn't post it i jus post one to try but i reqlly dont have interest not my type some of my friends ask me to post and make money of it but i said to them if i have some extra time i will but i dont have by the way i just telling you the truth so that atleast it will help maybe opinion to make you more successful and awareness acceptance and some criticism it will help but to contradict them thats your opinion ,, its not because you have many subscribers not all of them want to watch your video and follow you ,, i watch many tutorials same as you do pike i said no talking too much its more followers and untill now i can help my self to watch because its more good ,, and this time many people know already a lot too much talking make them boring i just said just direct to the point its more better ,, im trying to help you here ,, ì watch a lot of making guitar from scratch to finish more like they get
@@HighlineGuitars its ok i got it old people don't accept opinion 😂
@@HighlineGuitars 66 k subscribers and 191 viewers for 3 years come on i think like i said maybe you need to change your style a little bit ,, just direct to the point stop too much talking ,, trust me it will help boost your views and subscriber's people dont like talking too much details
@@yawartzzband Wow, you just said a whole lot of nothing.
I can not express fully enough my admiration for you and your work at teaching, guiding, performing, and videotaping on an artisan level. I almost never feel comfortable enough to actually embark on an attempt to replicate on my own what I see and hear. In fact, I do not remember the last time I felt adequately informed to invest in an art. Bravo! Bravo! And thank you for leading by example in more than this.
I thought this was a wildly educational video. I came here because I am a guitar aficionado, but I also really enjoy refinishing fine furniture. You showed me some new things. Thank you very much. Because of people like you, there is a wealth of great information on UA-cam. Just last month I learned how to fix my mower. I understand that it helps you if I give a "Thumbs-up" and subscribe, so I did both.
Finally, I have watched a professional luthier's finishing job. I may go to waterbased in the near future. Great product too. Thank you Good Sir.
🤓
Excellent instructional video! Even after building a dozen custom hollow body jazz style guitars I can learn new things from you. Thanks.
Totally agree. I build guitars, have been hanging out in guitar building communities for most of my life. There are many ways to do things, processes, products, etc., but there are always the builders that are so methodical and clean - they are an inspiration on how you should be doing it. He is one of them.
I wish all instructors were as good as you Awesome job.
Chris,I've been building guitars for 12 years and like your videos ,this was my favorite,not long enough, beautiful guitar outstanding finish ,one if the best I've seen
Using paste wax in holes will get you some day. I use poly or lacquer to wipe the inside of the holes to prevent the swelling before any finish goes on. You have wonderful skills and talent! Truly inspiring. Thanks!
I love your videos. I've learned so much and am so grateful for your generosity.
Just watched the video for the third time! Took notes this time. I am in the middle of my first project with the CraftNique products. Thank you for such a thorough video!!
Thanks Chris! I needed a refresher on the entire process of finishing a guitar. I use a different water based finish system but the steps are the same plus you've refreshed my process with this video.
I think the videos are great and I am a big fan of the details!
I absolutely like your detailed explanation and very clear speaking, excellent job and great video too.
Other than the colour I am going to follow what you did. I have the tools and I have the time. Great video.
A way of catching the curly q scratches is to wet the surface of the wood with a damp cloth and water, between each grit change. It will raise the grain of the wood and all sanding scratches
I'll have to keep that in mind. I usually pre raise the grain at least once during the sanding process to make the surface extra smooth, but I never considered it for dealing with the curly q scratches. Thanks!
I know this video is old and the odds of this comment getting read are low, but this is a world class explanation of somewhere between what hobbyists do and what is done by hobbyists who take this stuff QUITE seriously! The proof is in the results. I loved the extremely detailed explanations, personally. There are a million videos that sort of give lip service to the steps. Fantastic teaching.
Hey Chris I've watched this for about the 4th time now. I used crystalac for my last acoustic after watching your videos. I used E6000 in the past but this was much better. Beautiful finish, brushed on and hand polished. Couldn't be easier. Curly redwood top really pops. Thanks for the video
Thanks for taking the time to make this!!!
Finally got time to watch this video. AWESOME job Chris. Please let us know at CrystaLac Company of we can help any of your viewers in anyway.
@@jodalry Hi Jon. The CrystaLac Company ships to the UK all the time. Email me at david@beckerlabs.com. I can give you more info.
Do you ship to the Land Downunder?
@@jodalry there are hundreds of luthiers that use our products on acoustic guitars.
@@stuart8663 We have shipped to Australia several times.
Damn nice results! Thank you for the video
I've watched this video several times now. If I could only give it several likes! Thanks for sharing your knowledge and experience with this weekend luthier. Cheers Chris!
I have several videos from other UA-camrs that I watch all the time.
@@HighlineGuitars If I'm after an opaque finish, do you know if I would be better served using the pigments in a) clear Brite Tone only or b) their Universal White & topped with Brite Tone? Thanks again Chris!
Great video!
Excellent instruction, beautiful work
Excellent tutorial. Well presented & with clarity. Amazing result. However, I would recommend increasing temperature to 40C to reduce cure time & raising the glass transition temperature (softening transition) of the resin. By increasing the temperature by 10C you double the rate of chemical reaction.
I have tried similar in the past. It made no difference.
Best video on the internet. Thanks.
Ive started using water based finish on my practice build after watching you videos. So far I love it...i dont have a resourceful work area to paint in...the water base poly i have is so simple to use. Easy clean up and not as toxic as the nitro im used to using. Only thing is i have to get used to the coat count with water-based. The finish feels to thin, have to do like you did and apply more coats. Seeing this i now know a glass like finish can be achieved with water based finish. Just takes some getting used to
You are a master
Thank you very much for your information! 🖖🏻🌹
Thank you!
You bet!
Beautiful Job that buffing finish
Very interesting video. It's clearly the perfect tuttorial for me. I finished the first stape of my guitar ( an old stratocaster), sanding, primar, paint and clear coat.( Someone advise me to let the clear coat dry during a month). The next step for me will be wet handed sanding and buffing but It's new for me. Thanks for the explanations.
Glad it helped!
thank you
Awesome! This is what I have been waiting for. Thank you so much!
Chris, a very well done informative video. Wow I love the way that guitar gloss came out! I will give that product a try. Thanks for sharing your experience.
Beautiful job! It looks great! Thank you for sharing so much knowledge.
Thanks Chris, great video I've gotten more out of your videos than some semesters at my local community college!
You've convinced me to give Crystalac a try! Thanks!
Let us know if you have any questions.
Hi Chris, again a very informative video. This is a very good product, altough i have my doubts about how it stands out in scratch resistance compared to urethane finish. I think it's equal in hardness like true oil finish, wich you can touch up easely like schellack. I've checked out the site and it's a bit pricy, but they ship worldwide. Since i live in Belgium, it's again paying with a kidney on shipping and import taxes. I"ll give them an email to see what's possible. However, if i could order only the sanding sealer and the brite tone finish per pint, it's maybee pricewise doable. Also because you could use your own waterbased colours. I don't think you can apply this over solvent based dyes or stains ? However the Mirka abrasive is widly available in Belgium. That's also a good find. Thanks for all this Chris. You are a very kind and generous person. Currently i'm making my own fretboard jig with your plans. This is very clever and doesn't take much space. This is a link about someone who uses also your jig, check this out. He"s doing also nice things with fretboards. Thanks again Chris ! ua-cam.com/video/hwEVJC78IRM/v-deo.html
EDIT : forgot something.. do you sand or lighly scuff between the brite tone finish layers after 4 to 5 hours, or is it still wet enough to spray and blend right over the finish ? Thanks Chris.
Hi Bruno, which lacquer are you using here in Europe? Thanks
You do great work. Thx for all the tips 👍
outstanding, thanks
Great video! You have me eager to try this. I’m curious how this finish holds up over the years? Does it hold up against sweat and moisture from the body? Does it do well against environmental changes? Thanks again for the great content.
Excellent explanation excellent work, especially i love your weekend luthier fixation. Its me 😄👍👍🎸🎸🎸🎸🎸
Im working on a strat build now. I have an ASH body. This is my very first build. I am also relatively new to wood working in general. Im trying to get the basic steps simplified in my mind.... 1. Basic Sanding 2. Aniline dying 3. Grain Fill 4. Sanding Sealer (I have Behlen's Aerosol Vinyl sealer) 5. Finish (in my case again I have Behlen's Aerosol stringed instrument lacquer). This is actually my second time trying this on this body. I had a problem during the grain filling/sanding sealing stages. I ended up sanding through my Aniline dye. I had large patches of raw wood showing after sanding through. I have now spent 3 days sanding (mostly by hand), and except for the deepest of grains, im almost back to "square one". If anyone thinks im doing something fundamentally wrong (other than being inexperienced), I would love to hear any advice.
Hi Chris, I know this is an old video but I haven't found an answer to my question in any Crystalac related videos. Question is, what can be used for a tack cloth? The Crystalac container says not use a tack cloth. But a rag with rubbing alcohol bites the finish. And a damp rag or paper towel stills leaves specks.
Compressed air.
@@HighlineGuitars, Thanks Chris. I use that as well just doesn't work perfectly. Appreciate the quick response.
excellent video. the finish is absolutely perfect!
@Highline Guitars I'm wondering how easily this could be done with a maple veneer rather than a solid maple top. I want to start a guitar kit and make the maple pop, but im trying to keep it in budget hence the veneer. I'm mainly worried about sanding through the veneer.
Awesome finish!
for those abranet .. what ever they call them .. go to a hard wood flooring supply and get edger screens they are the exact same thing but cost less then half ,, i used to get them in boxes of 50 for 30 bucks when i owned a flooring company and i promise they will last through 10 guitars as long as you don't get on a hard edge with them
I can get a 50 pack of Abranet on eBay for $20.
Could you wipe the body with a quick swath of naptha to spot swirly scratches after each grit? Maybe just taking it up to 320 or 400 would work?
Better to use a bright light at a low angle.
I've added 3 coats of the finish over top of a very thin epoxy which was sanded.( I have painted a design with acrylics) My question is, what would be the purpose of sanding down the last coat and polishing? Can I just leave the topcoat as is??? Thanks! Really enjoy your videos!
It depends on what you want as a final outcome. If you're okay with it as is, leave it be. If you want a mirror-like high gloss shine, you'll have to level sand, polish sand and buff.
I agree with Shanghai Yawartz Your explanation is good but keep to the details and toss the history behind every step but your end result is great
I only take advice from people who have more subscribers than me. 😉
You are a genius.
Gorgeous work, I wish you could build one for me
Thank you so much 😀
Great video and great channel!
? I am building a diy kit and do not have spray equipment and was wondering if you have applied the crystalac Brite Tone with a brush. If so how well did it do and any special techniques needed? Thank you.
I've never brushed it on myself.
hello, thanks for teaching., would you mind to tell me what color of crystalac did you used? i just want to buy same color,
A drop of red, a drop of yellow, and a drop of brown.
I'm building one guitar for myself, periodically I build guitars for family members so I don't have a spray gun (only an airbrush). Have you applied the BriteTone finish by hand (brush or applicator)? Crystalac's website states this technique is possible but is it viable? Or would you recommend just sticking with the Solarez ICBINL to get a high gloss finish?
Yes, it is viable.
Perfect thank you so much !
I use mesh sanding for one year now and will never go back!
You mentioned that you scuff between coats of sealer, but don't say whether you also scuff between coats of Brite Tone. Do you scuff between Brite Tone coats?
I usually don't as it can be hard to cover the sanding scratches which will sow up later when you buff.
Hi Chris, you’ve git a great channel contents. I have a question. I have a guitar with polyurethane finish and I sanded the top coat to refinish it to a mirror like finish. Do I still need the sealer before applying the brite tone coat?
Yes
@@HighlineGuitars Thank you so much for that very quick reply.
I plan to stain some maple and sand it back. If I use Crystalac Sanding Sealer, would I use a water based stain or alcohol based stain?
I asked Crystalac which stain would work best under their sealer and they responded by saying their "sanding sealer is designed for raw wood." That was it. One little sentence.
I like to use their sanding sealer after staining if the stain lacks a binder. With either stain, the carrier (water or alcohol) will evaporate leaving just the pigment in the wood. If there's no binder present in the stain, it needs to be sealed into the wood or it will come off just by touching it with your fingers.
wow! Thank's so much !
How long are u letting the crystalac dry before you are comfortable resting the body in a surface? I’ve had some indentations left on the body from whatever I have set it on. Thank you in advance!
Water-based products like Crystalac Brite Tone need to be applied as thin coats several hours apart. Once the last coat is applied, full hardness may take 3 to 4 weeks and even longer. The greater the humidity where you are can also lengthen the time it takes to fully cure.
@@HighlineGuitars thanks buddy
Hi Chris. First, thank you for all your great videos. I'm just getting started on my Luthier journey and have found your videos to be informative and interesting. I appreciate your teaching style for sure. My question is this....After I stain a flamed maple top, can I do a lite coat of Boiled Linseed Oil before I lay down a sanding sealer and Crystalac Brite Tone topcoat. I ran across a UA-cam video of a woodworker doing this on flamed maple and the result was beautiful. I think the video was "How to make Flamed Maple Pop".
Yes, you can and it will look great. Just make sure you allow enough time for the BLO to fully dry and cure. That can be two weeks or more.
Hey Chris, I have a question for you. What do you think of doing a resin finish for guitars? They don't have any acoustic sound properties but I believe the finish would be great and Jaco Pastorious covered his fingerboard with epoxy resin and it worked well for him.
That's what Solarez is.
Wonderful video, really like your helpful commentary and suggestions. Question please....about how many hours do you estimate it takes to do a good job finishing a guitar like you did in this video? maybe you can range the time for someone experienced like you to someone with more limited experience. Thanks.
Three to four days to apply the finish. Two weeks to let it cure. Two days to level sand and buff.
@@HighlineGuitars Thank you for the timeline. About how many hours involved for the finishing process and how many hours to level sand and buff. Would really appreciate this info as I'm trying to decide whether I can afford the time to try and build a kit guitar and finish it.
@@archimark5060 I have no idea. I've never kept track.
@@HighlineGuitars Thanks for your reply. Appreciate it. Think it would be interesting to know what it really takes hours-wise to do this......simple log would do it....but it's up to you of course.....meanwhile, I'm enjoying your various videos!
@@archimark5060 If only it were that simple. Unfortunately, it's not. Far from it. Every finishing situation is very different depending on the desired outcome, temperature and humidity levels, application equipment, skill level and experience, etc. Sorry!
Great video thank you
After following your cure recommendations (1 day of cure time per coat), should I get a sand-through, how does Brite Tone perform when having do a spot re-coat in that situation? Thanks - great video. You really explained things clearly and comprehensively. Thanks!
There will be a potential for witness lines if you have to spot re-coat. It depends on how you buff. I avoid witness lines by spraying the spots rather than drop filling with a brush.
Great video Chris, I'm a Crystalac decipel thanks to you!!
Can I send you my Tele body? I'm obsessed with this finish
Sorry, but no. I am focused on my own custom builds.
Good day sir im jeremy from philppines i cant find linseed oil in my country only orange oil available in our market.can i use orange oil for making stain paint to my guitar?thank you sir for helping me
I don’t know. You’ll have to test it.
Thank you sir GOD BLESS you
Sir i have dye ink printer can i used this for paint my tele body?because i cant find dye paint for wood in my country
@@anagonz4887 I don’t know. I have never used printer ink to dye wood.
Hey Chris, can I use the water base sanding sealer underneath a automotive clear top coat? The reason I want to use the auto clear is because my uncle owns a shop and said he would do it for free. I would be doing this on a pair of speakers that have a real wood (paperback) veneer on them.
You would have to ask the manufacturer.
Anyone ever sprayed the Brite Tone product over resin? I am helping a family friend finish his first guitar and it’s maple and resin combined. I started with Minwax Polyacrylic and had some issues (it didn’t want to build on the resin portion). Any suggestions or tips would be great.
When applying the multiple coats of sanding sealer and later, top coat, are you able to leave the finish in your sprayer or are you cleaning it each time.
I clean after every coat. I learned you have to do this the hard way.
Hi, I stripped the paint from a guitar and went with a clear coat over the wood. I used oil based varathane polyurethane clear gloss because I like the way it turns sort of amber over time. it dried for a month then I wet sanded it 400 - 800-1000-1500-2000 grits then I used a foam buffing wheel on my drill with terry cloth bonnets and used Meguiar's mirror glaze polish and i got it to a mirror but cant seem to get fine scrtatches out. went back a few steps and did it again and same problem. little help?
Follow up with a fine cutting pad and some swirl remover.
Do you like Crystalac better than Solorez.
New sub here :) Great video, and beautiful work. I'm really looking forward to watching your videos.
Awesome Video I really appreciate all the info. I'm just wondering was any thinning required in spraying? Specifically for the clear top coat? but also if you did thin with the sanding Sealer also? Just about to order from Crystalac & would be grateful for your input. Thanks...Also did you also use the bright tone on your neck? & do you have any videos illustrating this process of finishing the neck with Crystalac? Is should be ok but I've never sprayed these products & any pointers are welcome & appreciated
Más de 49 minutos para mostrar y explicar cómo teñir y lustrar una guitarra !!!! Pará de hablar un poco hermano !!! Sos un genio en lo que haces y realmente te felicito, pero aburris demasiado !!!! Tuve que adelantar el video y lo vi en 5 minutos y encima, de los más de 49 minutos, sólo mostras el producto terminado en solamente algunos segundos y nada más...
Te doy un like porque realmente me gustó tu trabajo, pero me sacaste las ganas de suscribirme.
Hi Chris and everyone, I have no spray gun and applying the crystalac with a foam brush. I am encountering few issues.
Firstly I have to say they are very good products.
I have so far successfully achieved perfect levelled surface after filled poring a rosewood guitare body and applied the cristalac sanding sealer.
I am now at the stage of applying the clear top coat.
I have just applied the first coat of bright tone and got lots of runs and drips..
I think I did applied to tick . Actually a little goes a long way .
My question is can I use 600 grit to sand these runs and then recoat . ( would that show marks under the new coat )
Or should I sand the marks and the rest of the side ( runs happened at the side on the curly side) do I have to wait 24h or can I sand after the 4 hours
And finally how many brushed coat of the bright tone would I need before level sanding. I think 3, perhaps 4.
Using a foam brush, I may go with a normal brush.
A pity it could not be apply like a wipe on.. (or could it...?)
I have previously done some coating job with a home made wipe on poly oil based mixed ration 50% poly 50% white spirit and it was so easy, no run no marks
I am just a bit heavy with a brush... but indeed that cristalac products is really good
I was level sanding with 400grit after each coat of sanding sealer .
After 3 coat I got perfect smooth surface ready for clear coat.
Wanted to use same thecnique for the clear coat but not sure if product will behave the same as the sanding sealer.. ( smithing and levelling surface between coat at 400 grit) and for applying the last final coat really thin after final levelling seems hard enough.
I may just apply the last coat and with the 3 weeks level sanding starting 600 up to 7000
Will that work
Yes, you can sand with 400-600 grit to fix the runs and drips before recoating. Also, I would use a good quality bristle brush instead of a foam brush. Foam brushes are deceiving in how much liquid they hold.
@@HighlineGuitars thanks Chris for reply. I will get a good brush in the morning . So much hard work so far .. now reaching the end I am getting panicked 😄
Gotta flashbackicize yeah take ya back yaeeyeah
What's the top coat you used in this video.i hope you share everything all details and we all enjoy this video but you don't say and don't show what's is top coat you used.... Please if you don't mind share it out...thank you🙏💕
Yes, I do. It's in the title and detailed here: ua-cam.com/video/iFtsXkHCbgM/v-deo.html
@@HighlineGuitars thank you very much..you really fix it...
26:28 How long did you let each coat of sanding sealer dry before doing the next coat? You didn't say.
When it no longer looks wet or feels clammy. Dry time depends on temp and humidity. It could be 20 minutes or 2 hours.
Hi Chris, I do larger scale waterborne lacquer walls/cabinets for clients. Does this crystalac have good vertical hang when sprayed ? Ive been using tinted mohawk precat waterborne lacquer and it works well and hangs well but the crystalac seems like a much clearer finish without any "clouding effect". thanks!!
As long as you don't spray it too thick, it won't sag. I always hang my guitars to dry and the only times that runs or drips have formed was when I sprayed a coat too heavy.
Thanks Chris !! I’m going to try multiple light passes👍
@@gabemorales5136 Take a look at Extreme Protection Polyurethane or Super Premium Top Coat. Both work great for cabinetry and the Extreme Protection like Brite Tone has UV Protection.
I enjoy watching your videos! I have a question about the crystalac sanding sealer. Does that dry perfectly clear? I have a swirl finish to clear and am debating using your approach of laying down coats of the sealer and leveling that first. Is that a good way to get the best end result with less coats of clear and less sanding of the clear? I do not want to use the sealer if it will affect the perception of the colors and detail. Thanks.
Crystalac sanding sealer has an amber tint. If you want clear, try this: www.targetcoatings.com/product/emtech-em1000-wb-universal-sanding-sealer/
have you applied clear with a low pressure high volume turbine???
LPHVT? Nope.
I feel like this didn't need to be a full 50 minutes, still a great video though
Wow! You're the "Bob Ross" of guitar finishing! So informative with a pleasant tone of voice and excellent results. I plan on doing a Les Paul with a flamed maple top and I'll be using your instruction to accomplish that! I've done a few painted guitars and the clearcoat never turned out the way I wanted due to me trying to block-sand them. That eraser trick, in a circular motion, makes sense. I subbed immediately! Thanks Bro!
thank you
I don't have any plans to make a guitar any time in the near future. I'm just a hobby woodworker who struggles with finishes. This has been such an eye opening video! I can't wait to try this on some keepsake boxes. Thank you so much!
Great teacher! Thank you for all the details!
i like watching these on mute
Hey! I'm a crazy beginner! I love a challenge.
My vision is to stain a guitar (mahogany base/maple flame top) a deep red/wine colour (transparent...still want the grain patterns).
What I would also like to do is apply a lightly tinted blue high gloss finish so the blue highlight comes out in the reflections.
Is this doable, or am I fit for the asylum?
Thank you for such an extensive walk-through! This really is invaluable stuff.
I am on my first guitar building project and this video is now my bible for how to get the finish done. :)
Beautiful color and finish. Very clear and concise instruction. Thanks for your time and effort.
I'm just starting and gathering information. I will be starting from scratch by stripping a guitar that I already have. I would like to shape/bevel the edges just like on your guitar body. However, I don't want to spend thousands of dollars on setting up a shop. I also don't want to spend hundreds on products that I might not need in the future. Do you have a series for beginners that will still allow me to end up with a beautiful finished product and maybe encourage me to continue and grow?
Take your pick: www.youtube.com/@HighlineGuitars/playlists
That finish is gorgeous. I'm at the clear coat stage with my first guitar build. It has been grain filled, sanded, black stained, sanded back, then colour stained (emerald green). Now it needs sealing, clear coating, and polishing. This video has given me some confidence for the next steps. Wish me luck.
You have a masterful command of the process, well done! I much prefer leaving the wood grain texture, with many coats of Liberon finishing oil and renaissance wax top coat. It ends up looking like a piece of touchable Sam Maloof furniture and can be reapplied every couple of years if the finish settles. Encasing your wood in plastic may be necessary for a guitar that gets shipped around the world but a home made instrument can let the wood look like wood, not a high gloss photograph of wood IMHO.
Excellent information! Great thanks!!