A cat ketch sailing past us on our way into Bequia. The wind was maybe ~20 knots, squally, and rainy. We, a 48' cutter, had a full main and staysail up.
I just found this video. It is my Freedom 44 "Allana". Allana has been from Nova Scotia to Trinidad and back a couple of times and it is a great blue water boat. Allana is now in Wrightsville Beach, North Carolina having sailed from Bonaire via Puerto Rico in April. And no, the point of sail was not why the 48' cutter was slower, the Freedom 44 is really fast! Thanks for taking the great video.
@@88888gerald Length is a factor, not a limit. A 12 m trimaran with displacement hulls can approach 30 kts while its "hull speed" is less than 9 kts. Hull speed merely dictates the point where further speed requires greater energy to attain. Monohulled sailboats tend to have more difficulty capturing enough energy to do so without the force capsizing the boat.
@@michelcapel sorry, my little giant ladder collapsed this spring and I broke my back while fixing the forward navigation light on my Aloha 32. Fell 25 feet and lucky to be alive.
That is the 44, I have owned a 40 A/C for twenty years, it is not that fast but a great boat. Some of the 44s have a deep keel, and are fast.a few years ago a 44 sailed by a 18 year old won The Bermuda, race, in every class.
Wow, that Freedom really blew by you guys. I've always loved the cat-ketch and cat-schooner rigs that Freedom made, but a lot of people criticize them saying they're only fast going downwind. Since this one smoked you guys, and you have more sail up and a longer waterline, what are your thoughts?
Freedom cat ketches are built very light. The ketch rig is low so the ballast ratio is lower then on sloop rigged boats. Only about 30%. Masts are light carbon fibre lacking kilometers of steel wire and hardware. The 48' cutter might well be a luxurious steel vessel having a much higher weight to sail area ratio. That could explain the difference in speed.
we had a Freedom 28 cat ketch, which is basically a smaller version of the 44 that is in this video, and while I am not sure about the 44, the 28 is definitely not a light boat. For a 28 footer, I would say it was medium-heavy and I would guess the 44, with a very similar design, is probably about same - medium heavy as a coastal cruiser, but not super heavy like some offshore sailboats, I would say medium deisplacement, overall. They have a rather flat underside and the keel is pretty long so they track pretty well, but not too deep, so that combined with the lack of a jib - makes for a boat that does not point like a Soling. I would have liked a slightly deeper keel, but the shallow draft is nice for visiting coves and small harbors. However, when there is any breeze, they are surprisingly fast reaching and downwind, even a close reach. I would say our 28 footer in a good breeze reaching, was about as fast as would expect a typical 45 foot cruiser to be The cat ketch rig in heavy wind also gives you the option of having a very nicely shaped, and very controllable sail in heavy wind. Also, due to not much overhand at the ends, the Freedom cat ketches have a long waterline for their length, and that also adds some speed. The rudders are also excellent, huge rudders. They also have high freeboard, so they stay quite dry in heavy weather. The unstayed mast is also a plus in very heavy wind, because, unlike a metal (or wooden) mast, they flex - so when a heavy gust hits, the mast flexes some and spills a little air at the top.
Probably strong wind. At a point the boat leans over and loses efficiency and it is uncomfortable. With less sail area, this boat leans less and maintains speed. It's like reefing
Something is hinkey here, a schooner/cat rig with only the fore sail going to windward at better than 45", I don't believe it. Plus as someone else stated they have long shallow full keels which again are not that efficient to windward, somethings up. And as speed goes, my guess is that the cutters main sail is not trim very well for windward work, as you can see that deep belly in the middle of the mainsail. Just my two cents.
Sorry...please note this is not sailing to windward, but a reach. The Freedom Cat's are really efficient on this point of sail, and having a reefed main in heavy winds is the exact call for efficiency.
The Freedom 44 has a fin keel, not a shallow full keel - that's the 40. The 40 does not point well, the 44 does just fine, especially with the sail plan in the video.
@@raynic1173 looks to me though as if the cutter's jib is pulled in tight for close reaching so perhaps that's why they are stalling in comparison if the wind is coming off the beam a bit more. Also, although not many white caps, as the cat is reefed even on the single sail I suspect wind was up 25 knots or so and the jib car on the cutter pulled right forward is probably causing it to stall a bit alongside, as you said, the mainsail shape. I'm not a expert though so could all be bollocks!! :)
Not all of them. Some of the early 40s and 44s had freestanding Aluminum masts made from streetlight poles. I understand that many of the later British built Freedoms of all sizes were made with Aluminium masts.
Penny i agree they look nice and have a beam of 12 and a half feet so it is very roomy for a 32 footer actually closer to 33 according to sailboat data and well built.
It REALLY depends on what your interpretation is of a 'blue water' qualification is, it really, really varies in opinion. And a boat of one length/model may have nothing in common with another model by the same builder.
I sold my Freedom 40 aft cockpit Cat Ketch to a couple who sailed it across the Atlantic to England. They are great boats offshore, partially because you have so many sail configuration choices.
Actually, while the masts are the same length from head to foot, the mizzen is stepped lower making the fore/main mast taller by 6 to 12 inches. She is a ketch. Freedom did make a cat schooner, the Freedom 39 pilot house, but the 39 has a totally different hull shape. The 40 and 44 were Herreshoff designed hulls.
Good video and a bit late to comment but when he flew by, you were pointing too low, if you look at the video when you came up on to his heading you actually started to catch him. His boat isn't actually faster than yours it is all a matter of sail trim, you were just too low for the way your sails were sheeted.
I have a Freedom 44 too. You can't really compare the sail positions of a catboat with those of jib rigged boats. A catboat is always trimmed out much more because the sails only work with their own laminar flow. There is no venturi effect as you would have with a jib that accellerates and deflects the wind.
I love a cat ketch and I bet it is faster than this 48' cutter, but I have to agree with Gail. The boom looks too close to the center line with where the wind seems to be coming from. Also, I can see a bit of clam shell in the jib which is probably not so great for how high the winds are. Sorry for being a backseat driver!
Based on the relatively few whitecaps in the video, I'm guessing it is only blowing around 9-10 kts. Can't the 44 handle more sail in those conditions? At ten knots, I'll have only just taken in the first reef on my Freedom 21.
it's a ketch. the masts are the same length when you take them out of the boat, but the forward mast sits higher in the boat down below. Freedom make a cat schooner, the Pilothouse 39.
And now my search for a freedom 44 begins.
I just found this video. It is my Freedom 44 "Allana". Allana has been from Nova Scotia to Trinidad and back a couple of times and it is a great blue water boat. Allana is now in Wrightsville Beach, North Carolina having sailed from Bonaire via Puerto Rico in April. And no, the point of sail was not why the 48' cutter was slower, the Freedom 44 is really fast! Thanks for taking the great video.
I just purchased a Pearson Freedom 44 and plan to be living and cruising on her before the end of 2017. Great looking boat.
I'm in New Zealand; I've been looking for a Freedom 44 - please message me back if Allana may be on the market at any time.
Any Idea on how fast this boat is capable of ? 8-10-12 knots ?
all displacement boats speed depend on their length.....at the waterline...unless of course they are surfing..so figure it...
@@88888gerald Length is a factor, not a limit. A 12 m trimaran with displacement hulls can approach 30 kts while its "hull speed" is less than 9 kts. Hull speed merely dictates the point where further speed requires greater energy to attain. Monohulled sailboats tend to have more difficulty capturing enough energy to do so without the force capsizing the boat.
The wind-powered version of getting your doors blown off.
Very enlightening clip, thanks for sharing.
Pretty impressive, it even looks like it is sailing a little more upwind.
the cat ketch is carrying the right amount of sail !
Surprising that a cat ketch with just the head sail up overtook a cutter. Of course, hull shape, and displacement affect speed greatly too.
That’s a fast boat!!
I love the Cat, and want to Ketch it!!!
always wanted one of those.
My F44 Alabama Queen is for sale.
@@michelcapel sorry, my little giant ladder collapsed this spring and I broke my back while fixing the forward navigation light on my Aloha 32. Fell 25 feet and lucky to be alive.
One sail at one reef and made you look like you were at anchor!
That is the 44, I have owned a 40 A/C for twenty years, it is not that fast but a great boat.
Some of the 44s have a deep keel, and are fast.a few years ago a 44 sailed by a 18 year old won
The Bermuda, race, in every class.
Seriously ? how fast is the 44 ?
That was Frog Kiss. Sailed by two sons of the owner. Boys were 20 and 17 yrs old if I remember well.
Dude blew by you like you were standing still lol.
Wow.
Looks like it was blowing over 30 kts...
He didn't just sail past you......he smoked you!!
Hermoso, bello...me gustan los veleros...!! Me encantan.
she has her skirts up
Ya_Hoo! Nice flick.
Brian
Freedom!!
Sweet
lol mooning the cutter........under heavy reefs.
That's what they were designed to do.
They say there should be some space between the main and the mizzen or they don't work well together. Well the freedom 44 doesn't seem to mind.
Wow, that Freedom really blew by you guys. I've always loved the cat-ketch and cat-schooner rigs that Freedom made, but a lot of people criticize them saying they're only fast going downwind. Since this one smoked you guys, and you have more sail up and a longer waterline, what are your thoughts?
+Mark Kurtis Yes, definitely a cat schooner (vice ketch). In any case, a nice looking boat.
Freedom cat ketches are built very light. The ketch rig is low so the ballast ratio is lower then on sloop rigged boats. Only about 30%. Masts are light carbon fibre lacking kilometers of steel wire and hardware. The 48' cutter might well be a luxurious steel vessel having a much higher weight to sail area ratio. That could explain the difference in speed.
we had a Freedom 28 cat ketch, which is basically a smaller version of the 44 that is in this video, and while I am not sure about the 44, the 28 is definitely not a light boat. For a 28 footer, I would say it was medium-heavy and I would guess the 44, with a very similar design, is probably about same - medium heavy as a coastal cruiser, but not super heavy like some offshore sailboats, I would say medium deisplacement, overall. They have a rather flat underside and the keel is pretty long so they track pretty well, but not too deep, so that combined with the lack of a jib - makes for a boat that does not point like a Soling. I would have liked a slightly deeper keel, but the shallow draft is nice for visiting coves and small harbors. However, when there is any breeze, they are surprisingly fast reaching and downwind, even a close reach. I would say our 28 footer in a good breeze reaching, was about as fast as would expect a typical 45 foot cruiser to be The cat ketch rig in heavy wind also gives you the option of having a very nicely shaped, and very controllable sail in heavy wind. Also, due to not much overhand at the ends, the Freedom cat ketches have a long waterline for their length, and that also adds some speed. The rudders are also excellent, huge rudders. They also have high freeboard, so they stay quite dry in heavy weather. The unstayed mast is also a plus in very heavy wind, because, unlike a metal (or wooden) mast, they flex - so when a heavy gust hits, the mast flexes some and spills a little air at the top.
excuse me - not much overhang at the ends
Michel Capel she weighs just over 10 metric ton.... same as a moody that size...so not light
Ahh! That looks like a Freedom 33!
Great video. What type of camera were you filming with? +anoneemousey
I know it is an older video. I am trying to learn about sailing and was curious why there is only one sail up on the Freedom?
Probably strong wind. At a point the boat leans over and loses efficiency and it is uncomfortable. With less sail area, this boat leans less and maintains speed. It's like reefing
Nice I have a Cat Catch Core Sound 17 and love it.
Something is hinkey here, a schooner/cat rig with only the fore sail going to windward at better than 45", I don't believe it. Plus as someone else stated they have long shallow full keels which again are not that efficient to windward, somethings up. And as speed goes, my guess is that the cutters main sail is not trim very well for windward work, as you can see that deep belly in the middle of the mainsail. Just my two cents.
Sorry...please note this is not sailing to windward, but a reach. The Freedom Cat's are really efficient on this point of sail, and having a reefed main in heavy winds is the exact call for efficiency.
The Freedom 44 has a fin keel, not a shallow full keel - that's the 40. The 40 does not point well, the 44 does just fine, especially with the sail plan in the video.
@@LanceRyley With just the fore sail, I'm not buying it.
@@raynic1173 looks to me though as if the cutter's jib is pulled in tight for close reaching so perhaps that's why they are stalling in comparison if the wind is coming off the beam a bit more. Also, although not many white caps, as the cat is reefed even on the single sail I suspect wind was up 25 knots or so and the jib car on the cutter pulled right forward is probably causing it to stall a bit alongside, as you said, the mainsail shape. I'm not a expert though so could all be bollocks!! :)
lol take your 2c and fuckoff
carbon masts ?
Yes
Not all of them. Some of the early 40s and 44s had freestanding Aluminum masts made from streetlight poles. I understand that many of the later British built Freedoms of all sizes were made with Aluminium masts.
Yeah carbon. Tell tale by the black
Are Freedoms good boats for blue water cruising ?
***** thank you. seen one on sailboat listings, a freedom 32 that was really nice looking so now to get my car paid off & save up some money.
Dr Mark Doyle thank you so much for your reply.
Penny i agree they look nice and have a beam of 12 and a half feet so it is very roomy for a 32 footer actually closer to 33 according to sailboat data and well built.
It REALLY depends on what your interpretation is of a 'blue water' qualification is, it really, really varies in opinion. And a boat of one length/model may have nothing in common with another model by the same builder.
I sold my Freedom 40 aft cockpit Cat Ketch to a couple who sailed it across the Atlantic to England. They are great boats offshore, partially because you have so many sail configuration choices.
Is this a Freedom 40 aft cockpit or a Freedom 44???
It’s the 44, the forty has a transom hung rudder.
44
Actually more like a 39...
Merman oftheSea Well...look at the transom...I was WAY off...this is a Freedom 44...the side ports give it away...
Joshua Johnson She'd look better with a junk rig but still pretty.
That sea state is not even close to 30 knts. the wind in the mic must be totally exaggerating our video interpretation of the conditions.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but is that "cat ketch" a schooner?
front mast is too far forward for that, but maybe it should be called a cat schooner?
Perhaps if you'd reefed.
Maybe the Freedom had it`s motor going along? No chance to either hear or see it in those conditions.......
Those masts are the same size. That's a schooner.
No headsail
nope..It's a cat ketch, taller main forward of the shorter mizzen
@@josephtalbot5181 The masts are equal height.
Actually, while the masts are the same length from head to foot, the mizzen is stepped lower making the fore/main mast taller by 6 to 12 inches. She is a ketch.
Freedom did make a cat schooner, the Freedom 39 pilot house, but the 39 has a totally different hull shape. The 40 and 44 were Herreshoff designed hulls.
Isn't that a scooner?
Good video and a bit late to comment but when he flew by, you were pointing too low, if you look at the video when you came up on to his heading you actually started to catch him. His boat isn't actually faster than yours it is all a matter of sail trim, you were just too low for the way your sails were sheeted.
I have a Freedom 44 too. You can't really compare the sail positions of a catboat with those of jib rigged boats. A catboat is always trimmed out much more because the sails only work with their own laminar flow. There is no venturi effect as you would have with a jib that accellerates and deflects the wind.
I love a cat ketch and I bet it is faster than this 48' cutter, but I have to agree with Gail. The boom looks too close to the center line with where the wind seems to be coming from. Also, I can see a bit of clam shell in the jib which is probably not so great for how high the winds are. Sorry for being a backseat driver!
Based on the relatively few whitecaps in the video, I'm guessing it is only blowing around 9-10 kts. Can't the 44 handle more sail in those conditions? At ten knots, I'll have only just taken in the first reef on my Freedom 21.
This is`t ketch. This is a schoon.
Sadly you've made a mistake. It is a 44 Cat Ketch. The taller Main mast is forward of the Mizzen.
it's a ketch. the masts are the same length when you take them out of the boat, but the forward mast sits higher in the boat down below. Freedom make a cat schooner, the Pilothouse 39.
Thats a scooner not a ketch.
it's a ketch. the angle of the video may be misleading but the forward mast is taller than the aft mast.
Too much sail, amateur.