And I'd even give the one in Amsterdam a -2 for not having a roof (and being quite small). But I understand why it's surprising to even have any, as the road has the options of illegal and deadly…
I love the number of Dutch folk that came here to tell you that Amsterdam is NOT the most bike friendly city in the world, because every other Dutch city is better.
Yeah, it's nice. I live in Leidsche Rijn (part of Utrecht) and I live really close to a 3.5~4 km long perfectly straight mostly-priority cycling path which goes right through that part of the city. It is so much better than Amsterdam lol. (If you want to see the cycling path, look for the bicycle route on Maps from the Vrije School Leidsche Rijn to the Daphne Schippersbrug; it's awesome.)
@@markovermeer1394 that’s missing the point. If you’ve lived in North America you’ll understand how dramatic the difference actually is. Bike Priority is laughable in NA cities.
@@navehori9075 That's not at all the point of the people responding though. Here Calgary is compared to Amsterdam and it's called the best bike city and outside people would assume that this is the best a biking country has to offer. But in reality the best is way way better than what you see in this video. Sure, Amsterdam is already better than Calgary, but it's still poor compared to what can be.
@@navehori9075 When a city developer wants to study the potential of cities to get better public transport and bike infrastructure, than they should visit other Dutch towns, which we (as Dutch users) value better than Amsterdam. Amsterdam is in the lowest 25% of list published by our national bike association. City developers should study which available concept fits their local case best. Terms as "covering the gap with Amsterdam" is less useful.
I think this was kind of funny from a Dutch perception: 20:12 "keep in mind Amsterdam is probably the most bike friendly city in the world." Press X to doubt :-) Now I wonder what is the most bike friendly city in the Netherlands. Veenendaal got the price of Fietsstad 2020 so maybe Veenendaal ? And: "Enschede won de prijs voor beste grote gemeente"
@@autohmae That's one of the main annoyances with Amsterdam's reputation is that often gets singled out as Amsterdam vs. X (often Copenhagen), but I don't think there is a city in the Netherlands that would score worse than the best US/CA cities. And for best cycling city there are many great candidates, like Veenendaal. Just look at the list of other Fietsstad winners: Houten, Groningen, Nijmegen, Zwolle, Den Bosch. Spoiled for choice
I ride a low-rider recumbent trike in the Netherlands. For this reason i'm less visible to other traffic. My experience is that whereever you are, keep contact with the other roadusers and accidents won't happen. When contact disappears, accidents will happen. I lived in Veenendaal for 30 years and had about 3 accidents on a normal bike. The last 20 years (ouch, time flies) I've been riding bike in the province of Noord-Brabant, near Waalwijk and had 0 accidents. Personally I think it is because the bikelanes are more included to the road (still sepparated) then in, for instance, Veenendaal. Here in Noord-Brabant you're watching what others do during cycling and anticipate to that, while when the bikelanes are very sepparated, you're tended to watch your phone and other non-cycling-related things. By the way, having your phone in hand during cycling is illegal in the netherlands. The fine is about 95 euro / $111,59. Your phone has to be in your pocket or attached to tour steeringwheel/bike, not in your hand
Yep, Dallas sucks in bike or any other mode of transportation friendly infrastructure. It's basically only cars. If you don't have a car, you can't go anywhere in or around Dallas without a Uber or Lyft taxi/cab.
@@johnmay9598 If you are talking about the bike paths, the path system is one of the best in the world, but they don't count. Those are strictly recreational with strictly enforced and very limited speed limits. That's not infrastructure. Don't get me wrong, they're perfect for taking kids out and getting them started in cycling, and I love that Calgary has them, but not infrastructure. Commuting by bicycle in Calgary is very difficult and often more than a little dangerous.
Tbh, I think someone from Dallas would be like "what is this thing you call cycling infrastructure?" There's plenty of literally impossible routes by bike (or even by foot!) in Dallas.
@@NotJustBikes someone in another comment thread suggested you guys do a “comparing scores” video. I think that’s a good idea myself also, you guys should do it!
Amsterdam is a beautiful place... when you come as a tourist, if you live there everyday, if you have to commute there everyday (no matter what way of transport you chose), then the beauty fades away.
@@sanderw7153 Indeed would be better putting the shops on a parallel frontage road, could even still have the big parking lots if you absolutely must but put them between the frontage road and the main road. At least that would be how I would design it if the massive parking lots have to stay so it would be like main road, parking, access road, accessible parking, separator (at least 1 meter to protect from car doors), 2-way cycle track, bike parking, sidewalk, storefronts. This seems like it would work well local motor vehicle traffic doesn't interfere with the through road nor with through pedestrian or bike traffic. Granted people would need to cross the access road to access the parking lots but I'd make the access road a 20 mph speed limit anyway with pedestrian priority crossings at regular intervals. If anything thing would hopefully help discourage people from attempting to use the access road unnecessarily for through journeys. Granted this still is not perfect ideally would be preferable to get rid of some of those parking lots and build more useful stuff in its place. This could likely come in time if you fix enough stroads like this to crate a network of walkable and cyclable destinations. Combined with adding a decent strategic transit network the number of journeys by car that do not really need to involve a car should go down. You can then redevelop some of those parking lots into more retail space, cafes etc maybe add some nice plazas with plantings, benches and so on also. Probably would boost trade for the local businesses too if people feel comfortable in the space and have places to meet their needs for refreshments and to rest etc they are likely to linger and browse longer increasing opportunities for the businesses to make sales.
Right... because no one walks or cycles there. There is a multi-use pathway in a park adajacent to a river a few blocks west of that "stroad", so if you're riding a bike or walking, you would use that instead. Very deceptive video, this.
Exactly what I thought. Amsterdam can be pretty terrible compared to the rest of the country. For example it's filled with tourists who either have no clue how to ride a bike or even if they do they just don't know what the typical "etiquette" for riding a bike so they cause problems because their behavior is more unpredictable.
You are all missing the point. What they’re highlighting is the dramatic difference. It’s Jason’s perspective because thats where he lives. If you’re raised in North America any form of bike priority is laughable in our cities.
It is interesting to see the difference in what is being scored. NJB taking points away for crappy road maintenance in your video segment and for a multi use road in his. You awarding points for "at least i don't fear for my life here in your segment and for "many cyclists" in his. It really shows the difference in what stands out when you are accustomed to something. I enjoyed your side of the video, came here from NJB's video.
@@NotJustBikes I think having you two react to each other's videos and discuss your scoring would also be interesting although I don't know wether that'd be enough content to fill a separate video.
I think Tom awarded and deducted more points more often, because he has a broader understanding of the different levels of people friendly infrastructure from not just in Canada or amsterdam, but from other parts of the world as well. Whereas here, I think it is being mostly observed from a North American exclusive perspective, so more cycling centric cities seem like a Utopia to most frequent commuting cyclists of North America.
The worst city in the Netherlands for biking is probably orders of magnitude better than the best city for biking in North America. That's not a joke, I'm serious.
@@jg-7780 Well, Amsterdam is a pretty terrible city for cycling. So we just need a video of the best city in North America and we can pretty much confirm that you're right. Not that we even need to run the experiment to know the outcome.
@@noskillzdad5504 Boulder or Portland vs Amsterdam, which is worse? (From what I've read, Amsterdam is one of the worst Dutch cities to cycle in, second only to Rotterdam) Either way, Portland seems like a pretty decently place to cycle, compared to where I live at least (Perth, WA)
Amsterdam is regarded within the Netherlands as one of the worst places to cycle. I think mostly due to busyness, lack of space. There isn't too much to remark about the infrastructure itself, in broad strokes. As Jason's video and channel shows, Netherlands excels in bike infrastructure in most suburbs and even rural places, more so than in downtowns.
we have 38.000 KM on deciated bike lanes. there are a lot of places you can't with a car only with bikes or walking (Giethoorn is some of that places). Amsterdam is not nice to ride a bike because the old buildings. newer cities are nices and easier to ride. The town Alphen aan den Rijn is it almost faster to ride a bike that car :D
Old city, never flattened and rebuild to modern standards. So yeah, often not enough space for everything we want now. So it has all kinds of weird sub-solutions.
Amsterdam without tourists is a very nice place to cycle, not that I'm complaining otherwise though :) Also tourist pinball can be fun sometimes when you're in a certain mood xD
12:17 Look at the number of bikes parked there and imagine how much parking space would have been required if all those people had used car with probably 1 to 2 people per car on average.
Imagine if all that people use train, trams metro. They don't even need parking, and can be use by people that need to commute 50km + not just people in neighbourhood.
@@Humulator Understood. How do we do that in places like Phoenix Arizona?(Not an excuse, a genuine question) where it's built on millennia of dirt pile-up and has now become bedrock? How do you make a car-park (yes I called it a car-park. It makes more sense AMERICA. Y'idjits) slash parking lot underground when underground is made of almost exclusively bedrock?
Despite your differences in rubric, I think the fact that Calgary was deep in the negatives and Amsterdam closer to 10 than zero in both cases means this was a useful experiment.
Also he could have chosen to go to the home depot on 16ave N near 18th street and the bike ride would have been better. Rather than the crappy route he took.
@@Capitanvolume Unless they are the same type of route (downtown to suburb), and about the same distance, they wouldnt be comparable. The point was to have as similar routes as possible.
It would be great if you made a video with both of you discussing each other's scoring. It's interesting to see the different things you take for granted.
Yes, I found it kind of funny that Jason gave a plus one for the well designed industrial area while Tom dinged the same area because of “cars” and “big box stores!” Jason mentioned a parking garage, which is unheard of in the suburbs of North America. Instead, as he’s pointed out consistently in his videos, North America has flattened itself to make way for vast parking lots that take up space that is orders of magnitude larger than the stores themselves!
What you're calling a car-centric shopping center in Amsterdam is still quite pedestrian friendly in my mind. The businesses are very close to the street with minimal front parking. Businesses that take into consideration customers being more likely to come by car to pick up large items such as the hardware store have larger parkings, yes. But it's important to recognize how the scale is still very human, walking across the same amount of businesses in a typical car-centric modern north-american development would take a considerably longer time in my experience.
Also might be useful to mention to non-Dutch viewers, is that these types of shopping centers are specifically focused on furniture and homeware. This means much more people will come by car because they have to haul larger items. Stores for smaller items like clothing are usually located in pedestrian areas.
Incredibly true. For being 33. Born in Belgium. Lived in Canada for 15 years then back to Belgium last year... Made me have a reborn appreciation for everything European. I've grown to despise the way North America is built. It's like the laws of physics are not the same. Somehow in Europe we cram exactly the same services in 3 times less space and somehow it still works.
Even in places where there isn't a whole lot of cycling infrastructure in the Netherlands people are still very well protected by the law and the fact that car drivers will always be lookong out for pedestrians and cyclist because they are so common.
I would think that fewer cars might make for a more diverse retail landscape. That might have societal benefits as well.. more employment opportunities, including local employment, and a more neighborhood-like nature within larger cities. Kind of like 'It's a Wonderful Life' without Mr. Potter. I often patronize a small locally-owned hardware store about 5 km from my house.. I know the owner quite well and it looks like his daughter will do a fine job of running the store some day.
I love how you're searching for stuff to take away points for the infrastructure in Amsterdam while NJB just takes points away for; "It's good, but that means it can be better".
Just a difference in standards, when you've lived in Cartopia for all of your life you become thankful for the little things you do have for cicling and walking. Besides, Jason has visited many of the other cities in the netherlands, so he knows what those cities have that Amsterdam lack
Also interesting how many points were docked for mopeds in NJB's video, but Shifter took off points for how bikes were parked??? As long as a bike isn't chained to the pole of a "*do not* park your bike here" sign, it's good bike parking.
@@janthecoo4964 We chain our bikes to "don't park your bike here" signs. (pro tip: do not do this, your bike will get stolen by the government.) What I'm trying to say is that it's free real estate. Kids are taught how to interact with traffic, not where they may or may not park their bikes.
@@Treegona sure, but chaining your bike to a pole that is not on private property is illegal, not just at 'don't park your bike here' signs, everywhere... unless its specifically for parking bicycles
Those small cars are usually used by elderly or people with a invalidity. They have a maximum speed of 25km. Although there has been an uptick of teens using them, but iirc the city has been working on stopping that from happening. Edit: fixed incorrect speed per comment below.
As a Dutchman as well i must say that i've actually never seen a Canta unless i'm in A'dam. In all other places these people just drive a mobility scooter. Which i prefer because of eye contact and they will hear bikebells better.
what I really like about the +1-2 point scheme is that it punishes inconsistency. Sure, you can have some nice bike lanes dotted around here and there, but if they end up in dangerous situations it just costs points, which I think is fair.
One thing that REALLY impressed me in the Amsterdam ride was the street lights along the suburban parts of the route. That makes people feel a lot safer riding at night. A lot of people in North America, esp. women, don't cycle commute in winter out of concern for personal security. Well lighted routes AND just having more people out & about riding helps to assuage those concerns.
This is a major reason I can't bike commute to work every day of the week. I work nights one night a week, and I would probably be mugged or flattened by a car or something if I tried to bike home in the dark along spottily lit streets mostly deserted of pedestrians and cyclists. (Plus no bike lanes.)
@@rebiewriter Then you live in wrong place. In Tokyo you will not get mug and also not gonna be flatten by a car, oh yah Tokyo have alot of share road not protected bikeline. If 5 years old can go to school alone in there why can't you?
The biggest difference is that in the Netherlands, the good infrastructure isn't limited to Amsterdam. It's equally good in virtually every Dutch town and also between towns.
Actually by Dutch standards Amsterdam is by far one of the worst for cycling. Even cities like Utrecht, The Hauge and Rotterdam are far better for cycling. I live in Zoetermeer (between Rotterdam and The Hauge) and I could ride a similar route (10KM to a hardware store) without ever having to leave the bicycle path.
There's proper cycling infrastructure even in the most remote corners of the country, and recreational routes are viable options to get from A to B, making the ride that much more pleasant.
@@SanderEvers Saying Rotterdam is better than Amsterdam for cycling is wong in my experience. Even with the tourists I would say may experiences have been better in downtown Amsterdam compared to downtown Rotterdam. Rotterdam is very car centric for the Netherlands. You need to get very fare out of Amsterdam city center before you need to yield for cars while in Rotterdam you have the Weena right in front of the central station which even with the recent rebuild still makes you wait for the cars to cross.
@@kattkatt744 agreed, Rotterdam at least in the city itself cycling is not great. The outskirts however are much better. When you go towards the north part of the city. Pr.Alexander and Nesselande and such.
At 13:14 I wouldn't classify this as a bad driver. There is still enough space to go around it and they stopped because they don't want to push forward. The truck in front of it can easily be there for 30 minutes so they have to pass it somehow. The only way to do that is to actually use a bit of that area to see when it's safe. A bad driver would force its way in there and let bicyclists get to the sidewalk. I do agree on the -2 but not because of bad drivers but because there is no good way to unload trucks.
Everyone that drive is considered bad drivers for this people, car is bad but when buying furniture they happy to press delivery button. They forget by doing so majority of the time it sent from their big warehouse somewhere in the suburbs using big truck.
Yeah, no, haha. In the Netherlands that is a bad driver. If the driver's goal is just to see passed the truck if he can pas, he could have blocked way less of the road.
The two people smoking crack. omg. I recently started biking and i've encounted so many weird situations like that now. Bushes with underwear hanging all over them, people doing drugs, and one time some kids driving by waving stacks of cash. I've also seen way more awesome sites too. You see a lot more biking than driving, that's for sure.
you mentioning ‘human scale density’ is making me realise just how differently the two cities seem to approach density! it’s interesting to see how, despite amsterdam being the more dense city (in terms of having a similar population in a smaller area), calgary seems to be a much ‘taller’ city, with a lot more high rise buildings that are just more spread out
EU style cities with the ubiqious 4 story buildings are actually more dense than most skyscraper areas, and not because nobody lives in those office towers. But the towers lose a lot of space to internal infrastructure and of course the infrastructure to get people to and from still needs to be there - and arguably more because it's all in one point instead of a full block. So instead of 2 lane roads between the blocks you get a 4 lane stroad with on and off ramps.
@@supernenechi you would think that huh? if only they were willing to sacrifice a little car space, it seems like they could have very comfortable bike infrastructure, not unlike the dutch suburban cycle paths!
A lot of those towers in the city centers in North America are just office towers so not many people actually live in those. Some of them might have 24h activity, though.
Really interesting to see some of the negative things in Calgary that you take for granted and don't even notice as being a problem, such as wide streets and huge expansive junctions that encourage drivers to go too fast, while you didn't even seem to register the number of crossings in Amsterdam where the cycle path had priority over road traffic ... I think you were being very generous towards Calgary in your scoring!
You know, if you are used of being in a car-centric place you will not really notice all of a minor differences, just like me, i first watch this and not see any disagreements not until i saw the video of NJB
You want to know the most funny part? In order to make an even comparison, Jason had to cycle to a hardware store 10 km out of the city centre. Doing so, he passed about 4 other hardware stores which were just off the route he cycled (and actually part of the city centre). In the Netherlands it is common to find small commercial areas thoughout residential areas, which are VERY easy to reach using bikes. The commercial area that Jason chose for his destination is more comparable to commercial areas you would find in other countries (not just North America, but also European countries, like France). These are typically away from city centre and optimized for car use, as Tom correctly points out in his comment. However, in the Netherlands even these car-centered areas remain accesible with bikes or public transport (and so pedestrian friendly as well).
As a dutch person living here all my life, no way Amsterdam is the most bike friendly city in the world. Maybe the most recognized bike friendly city but definitely not a standout in the Netherlands.
Amsterdam does stand out - as one of the worst cycling cities of the Netherlands. XD Though given how much of the old city has been preserved and what little room they have to work with, I’d say the city does a pretty good job of managing bike traffic.
But that's the thing. Dutch people think "What's so special about Amsterdam? It's a terrible city for cycling!" Everyone else in the world thinks: "Oh my god, why is Amsterdam so good? I wish I could have only HALF of the cycle infrastructure they have!" Even though Amsterdam might be sort of a sour spot in the Netherlands, it's a cycling El Dorado compared to about every other city in the world (except for Copenhagen, maybe?).
haha, yes this always bothers me. Amsterdam is crap when it comes to cycling. Though, I understand that Amsterdam is more of an eye catching name for foreigeners.
Calgary, every time there's bike infrastructure: "Oh, a protected bike lane! +1" Amsterdam, literally starts on a 2-way separated bicycle path: " ... "
These videos were so interesting, especially because I happen to live in Calgary. As bad as Calgary is compared to Amsterdam, we've made huge improvements over the past decade. When I was 14 in 2009ish, I remember giving a debate speech to my class about why Calgary needed bike lanes because we literally had 0. While it will take a while due to our car-centric culture and infrastructure path dependency, I think we're on the right path toward a more multi-modal future.
Okay, it just makes me sad that the new improvements have been so incremental. Would be nice to do it right the first time when roads need to be renewed.
You should make politicians do a Calgary safety challenge, where they have to go from point A to point B, without taking a car. If you force them to take such challenges often, they might spot more flaws and come up with creative ways to make it safer.
interesting to see both comparisons. One thing i'd like to correct though, Amsterdam isn't even the most bike-friendly city in The Netherlands. That honour usually goes to Utrecht.
Almere's quite good too. For a 10 km trip I usually don't have to yield to any cars, at most two or three times. And that's usually because I'm taking a suboptimal route to avoid crowds.
Agreed. The part where NJB gave plus point for the disability car (The red "truck" he talked about at the beginning), but that Shifter gave negative points for it. I wonder if his scoring would be different for that if he knows the context. So I really want to know what they think of each others opinions on different aspects of things they came across.
That space would cost the developers money! And they only part with that when they absolutely have to (and they'll threaten the government that they won't build if they have to do things like put bikelanes or sidewalks in)
Fr, the generic American suburb has (unmarked) highway sized lanes and parking even though you have driveways that can fit 4 cars alone. Along with the existing green space you could fit bike lanes in very easily but good luck getting that to happen.
@@zackaryrethati7627 i can assure you that a lot of american suburbs at least up in the northeast do not have large lanes, and giant driveways. or sidewalks at all really
I didn't really get the -2 for the Car-Centric Shopping Centre. You can't expect people to not park their cars conveniently at shops that sell a lot of goods not fit to transport on a bicycle 🤣
Agreed. This is an area meant for businesses that faciliate these kinds of big purchases. This is not the kind of shopping area where you'd find supermarkets, hairdressers and the likes. Many purchases in these places are only viable with cars. Here one ought to score on how accessible and welcoming it still is to bikes, and I think it passes that test with flying colours.
@@yellfire Yes they do, because not everyone needs to buy a whole she'd every time. For anything up to three bags of cement you take a bike to a store. Sometimes you do need to buy a whole shed and in those cases you need your car and space to load it.
Hey Tom, you said that "it's never too late" and "we need to choose the kind of cities that we want". I totally agree. Thanks for the insight into cycling in Calgary.
Tom, as a NJB-subscriber I was curious about your vid. I like it very much, even more because of your positive attitude. You are very happy about your city and focus on the similarities, rather than the differences. The optimistic, glass is half full reasoning is great and makes one really believe it's achievable everywhere, to create bike friendliness.
Would love a reaction video where the two talk about the difference between how you scored and if that made you look differently at the scoring afterward
I just started biking regularly as a means of transportation rather than just for exercise. Before I'd probably take my bike out, I'm not even kidding, once or twice a year during summer. After discovering your channel along with not just bike I've gotten hooked with biking everywhere within 10km. Thank you!
I made a virtual trip through my small swedish city (mid-sized in Sweden though, 35000 people) and ended up with -4. I had to start at one suburb and go across town to one on the other side to even reach 10km. I tried to be fairly harsh since most streets has low enough traffic to be safe, but I wanted to favor dedicated bicycle infrastructure. We got a fair bit of it, though hardly anything up to dutch standards. Most of it is multi-use and fairly narrow. But given the population size it is good enough. If it was winter I would likely give +1 for the city having a priority bike network that gets cleared of snow at the same time as the priority road network. I would however have to deduct several points for them down-prioritizing arterial bike/pedestrian paths below regular neighbourhood streets. You usually have to wade through some snow to actually get to the priority bike network.
I just came back from a Bike with tents vacation trip to Sweden. My greatest annoyance was the way the bike roads switched from one side to the other side of the road constantly. Finally making good speed going down a hill and suddenly full on breaks because the separate bike lane stops and you have to switch road side. Still, considering places like Trelleborg, Ystad, Kivik, Ahus, Kristianstad, Hasselholm, Jonkoping and Skovde, They have a decent biking infrastructure. Not The Netherlands. But Way better than the biking Chaos that is KopenHagen, Kopenhagen is about 30 years behind compared to Amsterdam and 40 years compared to the rest of The Netherlands.
In a bicycle lane, it sure seems like a truck. I've seen golf carts along our bicycle lanes. They are in the way and they never get out of the way quickly enough.
NJB was alot stricter with the scoring seeing the difference is great and by the way that micro red truck is for disabled and elderly so should probably also be a +2.
8:53 Look at that, so used to unnecessarily wide residential streets encouraging speeding drivers it didn't even cross his mind that that's a negative point.
@@westasleep Just hope they don't make the mistake of putting the parking in such a way the bike lane needs to be crossed. That is accident causing machine. Just like those sudden mergers of bike and car lanes.
Calgary has a huge problem with how it ends bike infrastructure. I've been hit at the olympic way / 11th ave intersection. I've had friend get hit at the 17th ave and 5th st intersection and at the mini mall on 5th street and 11th ave. Because they refused to impact parking on 17th ave, the south termination of the new 11th street bike lane is going to mulch cyclists. The approved design will drop you into traffic from behind a row of parked cars or force you to ride on the sidewalk!
@@KRYMauL the bike lane ends in such a way that rather than carrying on straight ahead when it ends, cyclists are directed into the traffic lane by a curb. The parked cars hide the cyclist from oncoming traffic.
@@zackaryrethati7627 And the ball bouncing way into the distance, so he had to go really far to pick it back up while the bike fell to the ground behind him. It went about as badly as it could, given the setup.
18:08 while the higher speeds are a factor, I'm pretty sure the main reason the suburban areas in Amsterdam see more separated infrastructure is simple because there are more space available, especially since Dutch don't build bunch bazillion-lane stroads there. They would likely gladly install more separated bicycle paths in the city centre as well, but there often nowhere to put them.
I dislike the argument that the USA and canada don't have "space" for infrastructure. The Netherlands has fifteen times the population density of the USA, and the USA has ten times the population density of Canada. When designing city infrastructure, you allocate as much space for cars or bikes as the planners choose to, and the difference is political will.
It's funny how you give a +1 for the cycle parking in Amsterdam, while there's such a huge shortage of parking spaces, that the building site behind those parked cycles, is going to deliver a parking facility for 7,000 bicycles. In the future, you'll be able to access it from that particular street, and park and walk towards Central Station under water.
The funny thing that stands out about your 2 videos: Jason has a higher number of points he addresses in Amsterdam than Tom does, and they are wáy more city-planning-/traffic-engineering-technical. In Calgary you both have a nice, comparable analysis and number of points. Both fun to watch! 👍😃
This semester I decided to ride my bike to university(UofC) and I am so lucky that the route happens to line up great with bike pathways through places like confederation park, if I had to ride mostly on roads I’m not sure I would consider riding an option.
Here's the kicker: that isn't luck! All over Holland, bike highways are being planned, allowing the entire country to be traversed safely and efficiently by bike.
Meanwhile at my university (Mississippi State University) I have no dedicated route to campus despite living only one mile (1.6 km) away. There isn’t even a sidewalk! The campus itself has bicycle infrastructure… but only if you count sharrows. It’s no wonder Mississippi tops the nation for cyclist death rates.
In always fascinated to see bike lanes in other places that let you get from place to place. I've discovered exactly two bike lanes where I live in the past year and they both start abruptly, end abruptly and go literally nowhere. I don't know what purpose they're supposed to serve. It's those two short, pointless bike lanes and "share the road" signs here. Oh, and the abandoned trails to trails project. 😐
I found a fifty-meter bike lane that goes from a turn off US-60E onto a side road, terminated because the sidewalk encroached on it a few meters later... and there wasn't even a concrete ramp to get a bike onto / off of the ramp.
16:52 I study in Leuven, Belgium and people here (myself included) very often just leave their bikes locked up just anywhere where it doesn't bother anyone. Often an empty wall or lamppost or tree is much closer and easier than the bike stands which might be 50 meters further up the road.
Amsterdam is build in 17th century, so there was no planning for bikes. Outside the city you find the infrastructure that is common in the Netherlands. Almost all the bike-lanes outside the city are completely separate for cars. On some (nature) bicycle roads you can ride for hours without seeing a car. Thanks for the fun video!
Interesting, I lived in Calgary before moving to Amsterdam. Very familiar with both routes shown here! I used to frequent that Home Depot quite a lot, it is indeed difficult to ride to it. Calgary can be ok for cycling if you live near one of the better bike paths. I generally agree with the scoring. Another plus for Amsterdam is that you generally don’t have to go too far to find a store or service compared to Calgary.
As a former Calgarian, I can assure everyone that there is a more bike friendly route between the two Calgary locations, but still Calgary clearly loses the competition. I personally like the signed bikeways as they are typically on lower traffic streets where I don't fear the traffic. Love the video!
Yeah. At first I objected to taking Mission Road, instead of Stanley Park. But then I realized Calgary was going to get creamed no matter what route he took.
Straight from the beginning (3:45): not sure how that is a separated bike lane, it's a line on the ground. If a car so much as swerves you'll end up in the hospital. I have one street like that when going to work and I hate it with a passion. 4:00 now that's a separated bike lane and it's flat for easy biking. Granted, it looks like a sidewalk, but still safer (really separated) than the previous part. I think I'll leave it at that …
Got the same problem in Belgium too. A big chunk of my way to work is compromised of these lines on the ground, they always get me thinking "Yes, today is the day.. i'm gonna die here" and it's super frustrating!!
It’s got bollards! We love bollards. That’s a sign that it was designed to be a bike lane for months if not years to come, whereas most of the few in Calgary could be gone within a week.
let me tell you something about Amsterdam that doesnt show there. There arent bike paths everywhere. What you consider a one lane street in Calgary might be a two lane street in Amsterdam and even if it is a one lane street, bikes are allowed in both directions. I remember in Calgary, when biking on a normal road, drivers would "swerve" into the oncoming lane just to leave enough space between the two of us, in Amsterdam, there are places that this is impossible, like, if you try to do it, you end up in somebody's living room or in a cafe. Very often is door to handlebar cozy and yes, this includes buses and trucks. Sooooo....
@@noskillzdad5504 It's actually by law that cars must give bikes one metre of space in Calgary. Also, with the higher speed limit, there is less room for error, so giving bikes a wide berth is common.
In my opinion, suburban or rural areas might be the best place to start adding the bicycle infrastructure. There is more than enough space, so you don't have to alter the existing car infrastructure too much. It could really encourage 5-15km bike rides between rural towns or from the suburbs to the city center.
This is true, but the number of people using the infrastructure makes it hard to justify the expense. We have a lot of flood planes and powerline clearings that show up on the master plan for bicycle infrastructure, but we don't have the funding.
@@TimothyFish The funding is there, but no one legislator wants to do anything beyond the minimum because no one bikes. Chicken and egg problems are easy to solve, but everyone gets caught in the weeds.
You say "Amsterdam is probably the most bike-friendly city in the world". But basically, this goes for all cities and villages in the Netherlands. If you make a last of the top 100 safest cities (where a city is 20.000 people or more) I would not be surprised more then 95 of them are Dutch. Great video!
It should probably be amended to "most bike-friendly large city in the world". I'm sure there are plenty of smaller cities and towns in The Netherlands that are much better for biking but they won't get as much international attention as Amsterdam will. Having Amsterdam as a floor for bike friendliness would be a great improvement compared to what we have now haha
Great video, I was inspired to do a similar trip in La Crosse, WI. looking at our infrastructure and bike friendliness. Just started commuting twice a week and your videos have provided me with some great information. Thanks for what your doing!
I was in Amsterdam on vacation last year and I've ridden the exact same route that NotJustBikes rode a month prior to the release of the video. I didn't know either of your channels back then, but it's so cool to see this being judged like that when I can exactly recall how it was in person. Amazing holiday, this brought back some good memories.
My only complaint with the scoring on either channel is that you both docked Calgary for McLeod twice when I would consider that much time on McLeod as poor route planning. While it is quite a bit longer to take Elbow all the way to 56 Ave and not exactly a nice ride, it is orders of magnitude better than cutting across to McLeod at 4 St/Mission Rd. Alternatively, Landsdowne to 4 St is a very pleasant ride aside from a couple steep up hill climbs.
Exactly. Heck, let's earn Calgary back even a few more points in the "Park routes for transportation and pleasure" category by following Elbow on the multi-use pathway until the Rideau Park suspension bridge, then riding through Stanley Park. Linking that ride up to 5 St SW is one of my standard ways to get around town. Though I'm still mourning the loss of the social-distancing-driven lane closure down Elbow...
Really enjoyed watching both videos. Really interesting how much more cycling aware the Dutch scoring was, for example obstacles in the bike lane which we won't have even thought of scoring down. Thanks, I've subscribed, looking forward to seeing more videos 😀
Great video! I saw a ton of similarities in both cities to where I ride. Riding in SLC, there are a handful of roads/streets that I take your point of view. Id rather be alive than ride in that road. Great video!
I think in general the Netherlands are exception for some solutions. We have as well bike highways between cities... :) across the Netherlands. Of course it is small country... But I agree - it is quite easy to switch to be more bike friendly for cities like Calgary than it looks like. You need just a proper plan - making just a one bike line is not a solution. It could create some chaos. Plus - drivers should as well prtect cyclists... just looking for them. Good luck with this transition. In EU we have still a lot of cities like Calgary - which are not bike friendly. But this is slowly changing...
Good video. I’ve been watching all of your videos, and you do an excellent job. I’m also a fan of Not Just Bikes. I live in New York City where we have made a lot of progress, and I’m glad about that. But we have a long way to go as we can see from Jason’s videos. I was dismayed to see what you have to put up with in Calgary. Not that NYC’s infrastructure is a role model, but yours is bad, too. The best thing about cycling in NYC is that it has become common. Now commuting cyclists are such a common sight that drivers are getting used to us and treat us better than before, for the most part. I think we have reached critical mass that we have a reasonable chance of success when we ask for more space on the streets that TAKES AWAY space from motor vehicles. People who don’t cycle are starting to see that when there are fewer car drivers, conditions improve for everyone, even for car drivers.
I stand and applaud your collab, because it's a great way to invite people to join in the game, and learn to judge their city on its own merits. The more people that are interested in their surroundings, and improving them, the merrier.
No chance of any North American city coming close to Amsterdam. On my ride this morning I was noticing what my city having done in the past 30:years to improve cycling still undone by some huge impediments. My city has a sporadic multi use path and some unprotected bike lanes but has so far to go given we have a university in the middle of town. Seeing that American Chevy truck at the end was interesting.
Primo!!! coming from a guy who with Minnesota Coalition of Bicyclists was doing organized 'winter bike rides' beginning 1982. Please keep up your informative videos. THX!
Amsterdam is quite good to ride a bike, but for Dutch standards it is actualy kinda bad. The historical centre is just too narrow to accomodate all traffic.
Amsterdam is still good in terms of "big cities". There are definitely smaller cities in The Netherlands that are better for biking but they won't get as much international attention.
When I lived in Calgary, I tried cycle commuting for a little while. The NE was not bike friendly at all. I always ended up on just the sidewalks because I was terrified to compete with 60km/h traffic on 32nd. I’ve since moved to Red Deer, and love my commutes. We might not have any segregated lanes for bikes, but the paths are mostly excellent. Here I’ve been watching your videos all summer and it never clicked you were riding on my old turf! Love the content! Keep it rolling!
When compared to North America, where the threshold of bike friendliness is the existence of a couple sparse bike paths if you are lucky, I would say being about to bike anywhere without a constant thought of dying is different level.
@@mikeE997 North American cities need follow the example of Rotterdam not Amsterdam because it would be way to difficult to get even remotely close to that level of bike friendliness. The fact that it's considered below average speaks volumes as to how bad the North American cities really are.
Calgary’s bike infrastructure obviously needs improvements, but I expected it to be much worse. It makes me feel even worse about my own city’s infrastructure (quebec city)
A "few" years ago it was non-existent but they made a strong push (even against people's approval in some places). I remember Memorial Dr (a very used area) would at the beginning close on the weekends I think, and would be just for bikes. Awesome ride but people (drivers) were MAAAAAD!
It was interesting to watch your take on bike infrastructure after watching Jason's. It's definitely a case of being grateful for what you've got, as you scored Calgary higher than he did. I get that! When you see changes happening on your own streets it's hard not to be excited. Sadly, the bar is low here in North America.
You may have missed your chance at being a pro basketball player, but that over shoulder shot, missing the hoop and knocking your bike over was pure comedy gold 🤣
The biggest difference both my wife and I noted is that the route Jason took in Amsterdam is totally bonkers. It was a fine route and a good example of the dutch infrastructure, don't get me wrong. But if he'd *ACTUALLY* taken the assignment literally and gone to his local hardware store, he would have been done in 10-15 minutes, not after 10 kilometers of cycling. He went to a hardware store out in the commercial areas that was built for bulk buying with a car or truck just so he'd have the same sort of distance. Localised shopping means you don't need to go that far for your shopping, so a car is not necessary. When Jason turned into that park onto the multi-use pathway? Yeah there was a Praxis right there, about halfway along the route (that's the same store chain he ended at). And if he'd really gone to the closest hardware store from the point he started at? That one's 2 minutes by bike.
@@Flyingdutchy04 Yep. But that's a point in favour of the Dutch design, which is one of the most central ones before even the cycle infrastructure: If the shops are local to you, you don't _need_ a car to go to them.
He could have but then the video would have been pointless. Technically, there was also a closer hardware store for Calgary. The point of the video is to compare 20 minutes of cycling in both cities and if it gets difficult if you leave the inner city.
@@CLMBRT He still had many options that were FAR better than MacLeod Trail. If he didn't choose the most logical routes in both Amsterdam and Calgary, then the comparison isn't the best it could be as it highlights a failure of road planning on the rider's part.
First of all, Calgary looks amazing. I am still having these childhood memories of the winter olympics (1988, I was 8 then). If there is a difference between North American vs Dutch cities it is the scale. The Netherlands is a small, but more importantly, a densely populated country which makes any infrastructure investment more cost effective. (But bike lanes are cheaper to build and maintain. But then you would have to replace car infrastructure to make it viable. I can go on but my keyboard is in Dutch so very annoying to type.. keep it up and good luck.
Oh, a bike rack behind the forklift! +1
Oh, a forklift blocking the bike rack: -2
That summarizes the different levels of expectations.
I live in Queens NYC, and this video really shows how much better and how much worse cycling can be!
Alberta has head stuck up ass in regards to cycling. tip: dont leave your expensive bike near the forklift.
And I'd even give the one in Amsterdam a -2 for not having a roof (and being quite small). But I understand why it's surprising to even have any, as the road has the options of illegal and deadly…
I love the number of Dutch folk that came here to tell you that Amsterdam is NOT the most bike friendly city in the world, because every other Dutch city is better.
True, Amsterdam is in the lowest 25% of Dutch cities, according to the Bikers Association.
Yeah, it's nice. I live in Leidsche Rijn (part of Utrecht) and I live really close to a 3.5~4 km long perfectly straight mostly-priority cycling path which goes right through that part of the city. It is so much better than Amsterdam lol.
(If you want to see the cycling path, look for the bicycle route on Maps from the Vrije School Leidsche Rijn to the Daphne Schippersbrug; it's awesome.)
@@markovermeer1394 that’s missing the point. If you’ve lived in North America you’ll understand how dramatic the difference actually is. Bike Priority is laughable in NA cities.
@@navehori9075 That's not at all the point of the people responding though. Here Calgary is compared to Amsterdam and it's called the best bike city and outside people would assume that this is the best a biking country has to offer. But in reality the best is way way better than what you see in this video. Sure, Amsterdam is already better than Calgary, but it's still poor compared to what can be.
@@navehori9075 When a city developer wants to study the potential of cities to get better public transport and bike infrastructure, than they should visit other Dutch towns, which we (as Dutch users) value better than Amsterdam. Amsterdam is in the lowest 25% of list published by our national bike association. City developers should study which available concept fits their local case best. Terms as "covering the gap with Amsterdam" is less useful.
Thanks Tom! This was a lot of fun! And now I get to watch your video 🍿
I think this was kind of funny from a Dutch perception: 20:12 "keep in mind Amsterdam is probably the most bike friendly city in the world."
Press X to doubt :-) Now I wonder what is the most bike friendly city in the Netherlands. Veenendaal got the price of Fietsstad 2020 so maybe Veenendaal ?
And: "Enschede won de prijs voor beste grote gemeente"
@@autohmae That's one of the main annoyances with Amsterdam's reputation is that often gets singled out as Amsterdam vs. X (often Copenhagen), but I don't think there is a city in the Netherlands that would score worse than the best US/CA cities. And for best cycling city there are many great candidates, like Veenendaal. Just look at the list of other Fietsstad winners: Houten, Groningen, Nijmegen, Zwolle, Den Bosch. Spoiled for choice
I ride a low-rider recumbent trike in the Netherlands. For this reason i'm less visible to other traffic. My experience is that whereever you are, keep contact with the other roadusers and accidents won't happen. When contact disappears, accidents will happen. I lived in Veenendaal for 30 years and had about 3 accidents on a normal bike. The last 20 years (ouch, time flies) I've been riding bike in the province of Noord-Brabant, near Waalwijk and had 0 accidents. Personally I think it is because the bikelanes are more included to the road (still sepparated) then in, for instance, Veenendaal. Here in Noord-Brabant you're watching what others do during cycling and anticipate to that, while when the bikelanes are very sepparated, you're tended to watch your phone and other non-cycling-related things. By the way, having your phone in hand during cycling is illegal in the netherlands. The fine is about 95 euro / $111,59. Your phone has to be in your pocket or attached to tour steeringwheel/bike, not in your hand
I think a video or stream would be interesting where you two compare notes, as both the observations differ, as well as how those are judged.
If there is a limit to the negative score points; Puerto Rico already cross that limit…..
But I will insist to commute on my 🚲😎✌🏻🇵🇷
"We made it and we are alive!"
... The threshold for success is really that low for cycling in Canadian cities.
Not just Canadian cities almost all cities in NA
bro come to america youd be lucky to not get a flat
being alive is pretty cool tho
@@bishplis7226 ehh i could take it or leave it
Show this to someone in Dallas and they’ll say “wow Calgary has great cycling infrastructure”
Ya, 10 years ago there was nothing but Sunday drive multi use paths, nothing you could commute on. The lanes they have are still pretty half assed.
Yep, Dallas sucks in bike or any other mode of transportation friendly infrastructure. It's basically only cars. If you don't have a car, you can't go anywhere in or around Dallas without a Uber or Lyft taxi/cab.
The video barely showed any of Calgary's cycling infrastructure. They went out of their way to avoid it.
@@johnmay9598 If you are talking about the bike paths, the path system is one of the best in the world, but they don't count. Those are strictly recreational with strictly enforced and very limited speed limits. That's not infrastructure.
Don't get me wrong, they're perfect for taking kids out and getting them started in cycling, and I love that Calgary has them, but not infrastructure. Commuting by bicycle in Calgary is very difficult and often more than a little dangerous.
Tbh, I think someone from Dallas would be like "what is this thing you call cycling infrastructure?"
There's plenty of literally impossible routes by bike (or even by foot!) in Dallas.
Jason/NJB: 'Ugh, it's busy here. -2'
Tom: 'Wow, so many people! +1'
It qws interesting and funny to see the differences, awesome collab :)
Yes! This is why we did it this way and did not watch eachother's video first!
@@NotJustBikes someone in another comment thread suggested you guys do a “comparing scores” video. I think that’s a good idea myself also, you guys should do it!
@@NotJustBikes Also funny how he kept sort of the raw footage of you missing a turn in the westerpark in. ;-)
Amsterdam is a beautiful place... when you come as a tourist, if you live there everyday, if you have to commute there everyday (no matter what way of transport you chose), then the beauty fades away.
That's why it's good to travel a lot, it allows you to appreciate the beauty of your home more.
I would say +1 for the generous crack smokers.
but a -2 for crack smokers being a common occurence.
Yeah, fair enough. ;)
Was it April 20th?
@@michaelhusada2276 I thought that was just a weed thing. And nowadays, the more common drug in NA is probably fentanyl.
It is hard not to notice the complete lack of pedestrians along the stroad. Terrible infrastructure for both cyclists and pedestrians.
It's terrible for cars too, but not too many people realize that. Way too many traffic lights and parking lot driveways that show traffic down.
@@sanderw7153 Indeed would be better putting the shops on a parallel frontage road, could even still have the big parking lots if you absolutely must but put them between the frontage road and the main road. At least that would be how I would design it if the massive parking lots have to stay so it would be like main road, parking, access road, accessible parking, separator (at least 1 meter to protect from car doors), 2-way cycle track, bike parking, sidewalk, storefronts. This seems like it would work well local motor vehicle traffic doesn't interfere with the through road nor with through pedestrian or bike traffic. Granted people would need to cross the access road to access the parking lots but I'd make the access road a 20 mph speed limit anyway with pedestrian priority crossings at regular intervals. If anything thing would hopefully help discourage people from attempting to use the access road unnecessarily for through journeys.
Granted this still is not perfect ideally would be preferable to get rid of some of those parking lots and build more useful stuff in its place. This could likely come in time if you fix enough stroads like this to crate a network of walkable and cyclable destinations. Combined with adding a decent strategic transit network the number of journeys by car that do not really need to involve a car should go down. You can then redevelop some of those parking lots into more retail space, cafes etc maybe add some nice plazas with plantings, benches and so on also. Probably would boost trade for the local businesses too if people feel comfortable in the space and have places to meet their needs for refreshments and to rest etc they are likely to linger and browse longer increasing opportunities for the businesses to make sales.
@@seraphina985 Alternatively they could have a frontage road and let people park on the street to protect bikers and pedestrians.
Right... because no one walks or cycles there. There is a multi-use pathway in a park adajacent to a river a few blocks west of that "stroad", so if you're riding a bike or walking, you would use that instead.
Very deceptive video, this.
"hurr durr why would you make infrastructure of pedestrians that don't exist?"
Just a reminder that Amsterdam is not the most bike friendly city in the Netherlands, so it can't be the most bike friendly city in the world.
Exactly what I thought. Amsterdam can be pretty terrible compared to the rest of the country. For example it's filled with tourists who either have no clue how to ride a bike or even if they do they just don't know what the typical "etiquette" for riding a bike so they cause problems because their behavior is more unpredictable.
@@quintesse Or they just walk on the bikepaths drunk/high as fuck, But i guess thats mostly in downtown.
@Jakromha Yes, I agree on that one.
@@ProvidenceNL Tourists would never travel to Amsterdam just to get high!1! 🤡
😉
You are all missing the point. What they’re highlighting is the dramatic difference. It’s Jason’s perspective because thats where he lives. If you’re raised in North America any form of bike priority is laughable in our cities.
It is interesting to see the difference in what is being scored.
NJB taking points away for crappy road maintenance in your video segment and for a multi use road in his.
You awarding points for "at least i don't fear for my life here in your segment and for "many cyclists" in his.
It really shows the difference in what stands out when you are accustomed to something.
I enjoyed your side of the video, came here from NJB's video.
Yes! This is _exactly_ why we wanted to do this video, and it's why we didn't watch eachother's video/scoring before releasing our own!
I'm blessed to live in the nederlands and only have a bike
I've been enjoying these channels because it's nice to compare what they have to my own city.
@@NotJustBikes I think having you two react to each other's videos and discuss your scoring would also be interesting although I don't know wether that'd be enough content to fill a separate video.
I think there should also be a +1 for Amsterdam, for not having to fear or even think of losing your life when cycling.
Almost the exact same score proportionally. Tom awarded points/penalties about twice as often but +12/-44 and +6/-23 is remarkably close.
I think Tom awarded and deducted more points more often, because he has a broader understanding of the different levels of people friendly infrastructure from not just in Canada or amsterdam, but from other parts of the world as well. Whereas here, I think it is being mostly observed from a North American exclusive perspective, so more cycling centric cities seem like a Utopia to most frequent commuting cyclists of North America.
As a Dutch person, hearing you praise bicycle infrastructure that would be considered lackluster in the Netherlands is interesting lol
I actually wanna cry. I know I'll never see this "lacklustre" infrastructure implemented in the UK in my lifetime. Send help.
The worst city in the Netherlands for biking is probably orders of magnitude better than the best city for biking in North America. That's not a joke, I'm serious.
@@jg-7780 Well, Amsterdam is a pretty terrible city for cycling. So we just need a video of the best city in North America and we can pretty much confirm that you're right. Not that we even need to run the experiment to know the outcome.
@@jg-7780 well, let me introduce you to Boulder, Co? or Portland?
@@noskillzdad5504 Boulder or Portland vs Amsterdam, which is worse?
(From what I've read, Amsterdam is one of the worst Dutch cities to cycle in, second only to Rotterdam)
Either way, Portland seems like a pretty decently place to cycle, compared to where I live at least (Perth, WA)
Amsterdam is regarded within the Netherlands as one of the worst places to cycle. I think mostly due to busyness, lack of space. There isn't too much to remark about the infrastructure itself, in broad strokes. As Jason's video and channel shows, Netherlands excels in bike infrastructure in most suburbs and even rural places, more so than in downtowns.
we have 38.000 KM on deciated bike lanes. there are a lot of places you can't with a car only with bikes or walking (Giethoorn is some of that places). Amsterdam is not nice to ride a bike because the old buildings. newer cities are nices and easier to ride. The town Alphen aan den Rijn is it almost faster to ride a bike that car :D
bla bla bla
Old city, never flattened and rebuild to modern standards. So yeah, often not enough space for everything we want now. So it has all kinds of weird sub-solutions.
Amsterdam without tourists is a very nice place to cycle, not that I'm complaining otherwise though :)
Also tourist pinball can be fun sometimes when you're in a certain mood xD
I personally think Amsterdam is way better than Rotterdam though
12:17 Look at the number of bikes parked there and imagine how much parking space would have been required if all those people had used car with probably 1 to 2 people per car on average.
and the US has alll of that parking space.. what a waste of asphalt
@@grqfes if your going to have massive parking lots atleast put them all underground
We don't have to imagine - that's called Walmart
Imagine if all that people use train, trams metro. They don't even need parking, and can be use by people that need to commute 50km + not just people in neighbourhood.
@@Humulator Understood. How do we do that in places like Phoenix Arizona?(Not an excuse, a genuine question) where it's built on millennia of dirt pile-up and has now become bedrock? How do you make a car-park (yes I called it a car-park. It makes more sense AMERICA. Y'idjits) slash parking lot underground when underground is made of almost exclusively bedrock?
Despite your differences in rubric, I think the fact that Calgary was deep in the negatives and Amsterdam closer to 10 than zero in both cases means this was a useful experiment.
Amsterdan average 9 points and Calagary failed both.
Also he could have chosen to go to the home depot on 16ave N near 18th street and the bike ride would have been better. Rather than the crappy route he took.
@@Capitanvolume Unless they are the same type of route (downtown to suburb), and about the same distance, they wouldnt be comparable. The point was to have as similar routes as possible.
@@Capitanvolume i think they explicitly said they chose destinations with similar distances (~10km)
It would be great if you made a video with both of you discussing each other's scoring. It's interesting to see the different things you take for granted.
I was thinking the same thing.
Here here. Me to. It ll be interesting.
I would love to see them discussing this
Yes, I found it kind of funny that Jason gave a plus one for the well designed industrial area while Tom dinged the same area because of “cars” and “big box stores!” Jason mentioned a parking garage, which is unheard of in the suburbs of North America. Instead, as he’s pointed out consistently in his videos, North America has flattened itself to make way for vast parking lots that take up space that is orders of magnitude larger than the stores themselves!
+
What you're calling a car-centric shopping center in Amsterdam is still quite pedestrian friendly in my mind. The businesses are very close to the street with minimal front parking. Businesses that take into consideration customers being more likely to come by car to pick up large items such as the hardware store have larger parkings, yes. But it's important to recognize how the scale is still very human, walking across the same amount of businesses in a typical car-centric modern north-american development would take a considerably longer time in my experience.
Also might be useful to mention to non-Dutch viewers, is that these types of shopping centers are specifically focused on furniture and homeware. This means much more people will come by car because they have to haul larger items. Stores for smaller items like clothing are usually located in pedestrian areas.
Incredibly true.
For being 33. Born in Belgium. Lived in Canada for 15 years then back to Belgium last year... Made me have a reborn appreciation for everything European. I've grown to despise the way North America is built. It's like the laws of physics are not the same. Somehow in Europe we cram exactly the same services in 3 times less space and somehow it still works.
Even in places where there isn't a whole lot of cycling infrastructure in the Netherlands people are still very well protected by the law and the fact that car drivers will always be lookong out for pedestrians and cyclist because they are so common.
I would think that fewer cars might make for a more diverse retail landscape. That might have societal benefits as well.. more employment opportunities, including local employment, and a more neighborhood-like nature within larger cities. Kind of like 'It's a Wonderful Life' without Mr. Potter. I often patronize a small locally-owned hardware store about 5 km from my house.. I know the owner quite well and it looks like his daughter will do a fine job of running the store some day.
I love how you're searching for stuff to take away points for the infrastructure in Amsterdam while NJB just takes points away for; "It's good, but that means it can be better".
Just a difference in standards, when you've lived in Cartopia for all of your life you become thankful for the little things you do have for cicling and walking. Besides, Jason has visited many of the other cities in the netherlands, so he knows what those cities have that Amsterdam lack
Also interesting how many points were docked for mopeds in NJB's video, but Shifter took off points for how bikes were parked??? As long as a bike isn't chained to the pole of a "*do not* park your bike here" sign, it's good bike parking.
@@Treegona isnt it just illegal to chain your bike to a lamppost and road sign?
@@janthecoo4964 We chain our bikes to "don't park your bike here" signs. (pro tip: do not do this, your bike will get stolen by the government.)
What I'm trying to say is that it's free real estate. Kids are taught how to interact with traffic, not where they may or may not park their bikes.
@@Treegona sure, but chaining your bike to a pole that is not on private property is illegal, not just at 'don't park your bike here' signs, everywhere... unless its specifically for parking bicycles
Those small cars are usually used by elderly or people with a invalidity. They have a maximum speed of 25km. Although there has been an uptick of teens using them, but iirc the city has been working on stopping that from happening.
Edit: fixed incorrect speed per comment below.
I laughed out when he called them "truck"🤣🤣🤣
@@_Matt_Matt_365_ Ye their comparable to massive eighteen wheelers 🤣
The minute they finally get separated bike infrastructure somebody invents a tiny car to drive on it.
Nope they're limited to 25kpm ( look at the sticker) The ones you mean are considered mopeds and should go in the car lane .
As a Dutchman as well i must say that i've actually never seen a Canta unless i'm in A'dam. In all other places these people just drive a mobility scooter. Which i prefer because of eye contact and they will hear bikebells better.
what I really like about the +1-2 point scheme is that it punishes inconsistency. Sure, you can have some nice bike lanes dotted around here and there, but if they end up in dangerous situations it just costs points, which I think is fair.
One thing that REALLY impressed me in the Amsterdam ride was the street lights along the suburban parts of the route. That makes people feel a lot safer riding at night. A lot of people in North America, esp. women, don't cycle commute in winter out of concern for personal security. Well lighted routes AND just having more people out & about riding helps to assuage those concerns.
This is a major reason I can't bike commute to work every day of the week. I work nights one night a week, and I would probably be mugged or flattened by a car or something if I tried to bike home in the dark along spottily lit streets mostly deserted of pedestrians and cyclists. (Plus no bike lanes.)
@@rebiewriter Then you live in wrong place. In Tokyo you will not get mug and also not gonna be flatten by a car, oh yah Tokyo have alot of share road not protected bikeline. If 5 years old can go to school alone in there why can't you?
The biggest difference is that in the Netherlands, the good infrastructure isn't limited to Amsterdam. It's equally good in virtually every Dutch town and also between towns.
Actually by Dutch standards Amsterdam is by far one of the worst for cycling. Even cities like Utrecht, The Hauge and Rotterdam are far better for cycling. I live in Zoetermeer (between Rotterdam and The Hauge) and I could ride a similar route (10KM to a hardware store) without ever having to leave the bicycle path.
Even if it's just red paint on the small country roads it improves bike riding because it shows cars who has priority.
There's proper cycling infrastructure even in the most remote corners of the country, and recreational routes are viable options to get from A to B, making the ride that much more pleasant.
@@SanderEvers Saying Rotterdam is better than Amsterdam for cycling is wong in my experience. Even with the tourists I would say may experiences have been better in downtown Amsterdam compared to downtown Rotterdam. Rotterdam is very car centric for the Netherlands. You need to get very fare out of Amsterdam city center before you need to yield for cars while in Rotterdam you have the Weena right in front of the central station which even with the recent rebuild still makes you wait for the cars to cross.
@@kattkatt744 agreed, Rotterdam at least in the city itself cycling is not great. The outskirts however are much better. When you go towards the north part of the city. Pr.Alexander and Nesselande and such.
At 13:14 I wouldn't classify this as a bad driver. There is still enough space to go around it and they stopped because they don't want to push forward. The truck in front of it can easily be there for 30 minutes so they have to pass it somehow. The only way to do that is to actually use a bit of that area to see when it's safe. A bad driver would force its way in there and let bicyclists get to the sidewalk.
I do agree on the -2 but not because of bad drivers but because there is no good way to unload trucks.
Everyone that drive is considered bad drivers for this people, car is bad but when buying furniture they happy to press delivery button. They forget by doing so majority of the time it sent from their big warehouse somewhere in the suburbs using big truck.
Yeah, no, haha. In the Netherlands that is a bad driver. If the driver's goal is just to see passed the truck if he can pas, he could have blocked way less of the road.
The two people smoking crack. omg. I recently started biking and i've encounted so many weird situations like that now. Bushes with underwear hanging all over them, people doing drugs, and one time some kids driving by waving stacks of cash. I've also seen way more awesome sites too. You see a lot more biking than driving, that's for sure.
For me one of the biggest pros is being able to stop and talk to friends and coleagues i meet along the way.
wearing a mask is more unhealthy :O
you mentioning ‘human scale density’ is making me realise just how differently the two cities seem to approach density!
it’s interesting to see how, despite amsterdam being the more dense city (in terms of having a similar population in a smaller area), calgary seems to be a much ‘taller’ city, with a lot more high rise buildings that are just more spread out
EU style cities with the ubiqious 4 story buildings are actually more dense than most skyscraper areas, and not because nobody lives in those office towers.
But the towers lose a lot of space to internal infrastructure and of course the infrastructure to get people to and from still needs to be there - and arguably more because it's all in one point instead of a full block. So instead of 2 lane roads between the blocks you get a 4 lane stroad with on and off ramps.
Personally I think with such high rise and such density, bikes would be perfect.
@@supernenechi you would think that huh? if only they were willing to sacrifice a little car space, it seems like they could have very comfortable bike infrastructure, not unlike the dutch suburban cycle paths!
@@steemlenn8797 And not to forget the large amount of space taken up by parking infrastructure.
A lot of those towers in the city centers in North America are just office towers so not many people actually live in those. Some of them might have 24h activity, though.
Really interesting to see some of the negative things in Calgary that you take for granted and don't even notice as being a problem, such as wide streets and huge expansive junctions that encourage drivers to go too fast, while you didn't even seem to register the number of crossings in Amsterdam where the cycle path had priority over road traffic ... I think you were being very generous towards Calgary in your scoring!
Not Just Bikes that, but he also scored twice as often.
You know, if you are used of being in a car-centric place you will not really notice all of a minor differences, just like me, i first watch this and not see any disagreements not until i saw the video of NJB
Gotta love how you end your journey with "we made and are alive" and NJB was just eh it went okay
You want to know the most funny part? In order to make an even comparison, Jason had to cycle to a hardware store 10 km out of the city centre. Doing so, he passed about 4 other hardware stores which were just off the route he cycled (and actually part of the city centre). In the Netherlands it is common to find small commercial areas thoughout residential areas, which are VERY easy to reach using bikes.
The commercial area that Jason chose for his destination is more comparable to commercial areas you would find in other countries (not just North America, but also European countries, like France). These are typically away from city centre and optimized for car use, as Tom correctly points out in his comment. However, in the Netherlands even these car-centered areas remain accesible with bikes or public transport (and so pedestrian friendly as well).
As a dutch person living here all my life, no way Amsterdam is the most bike friendly city in the world. Maybe the most recognized bike friendly city but definitely not a standout in the Netherlands.
Groningen beats the absolute crap out of it. But so do most other cities, like you said Amsterdam doesn't stand out.
Amsterdam does stand out - as one of the worst cycling cities of the Netherlands. XD
Though given how much of the old city has been preserved and what little room they have to work with, I’d say the city does a pretty good job of managing bike traffic.
But that's the thing. Dutch people think "What's so special about Amsterdam? It's a terrible city for cycling!"
Everyone else in the world thinks: "Oh my god, why is Amsterdam so good? I wish I could have only HALF of the cycle infrastructure they have!"
Even though Amsterdam might be sort of a sour spot in the Netherlands, it's a cycling El Dorado compared to about every other city in the world (except for Copenhagen, maybe?).
as someone that lived in amsterdam for many years, I support your message.
haha, yes this always bothers me. Amsterdam is crap when it comes to cycling. Though, I understand that Amsterdam is more of an eye catching name for foreigeners.
Calgary, every time there's bike infrastructure: "Oh, a protected bike lane! +1"
Amsterdam, literally starts on a 2-way separated bicycle path: " ... "
@@awesomedude4428 Not even when you forgive the "but for NA this is pretty good".
These videos were so interesting, especially because I happen to live in Calgary. As bad as Calgary is compared to Amsterdam, we've made huge improvements over the past decade. When I was 14 in 2009ish, I remember giving a debate speech to my class about why Calgary needed bike lanes because we literally had 0. While it will take a while due to our car-centric culture and infrastructure path dependency, I think we're on the right path toward a more multi-modal future.
Okay, it just makes me sad that the new improvements have been so incremental.
Would be nice to do it right the first time when roads need to be renewed.
You should make politicians do a Calgary safety challenge, where they have to go from point A to point B, without taking a car. If you force them to take such challenges often, they might spot more flaws and come up with creative ways to make it safer.
interesting to see both comparisons. One thing i'd like to correct though, Amsterdam isn't even the most bike-friendly city in The Netherlands. That honour usually goes to Utrecht.
Or Groningen, or really any city that isn't Amsterdam haha
Or Groningen
@@Stroopwafe1 I think Groningen used to be nr.1, but Utrecht earned a lot of bonus points by reverting the Catherijnebaan back into a waterway.
Or Veenendaal, much lesser known but it was actually awarded as 'fietsstad' (bike town) of 2020
Almere's quite good too. For a 10 km trip I usually don't have to yield to any cars, at most two or three times. And that's usually because I'm taking a suboptimal route to avoid crowds.
I had a good laugh at the "Amsterdam is probably the most bike friendly city in the world". Thank you🤣
Only Dutchies will know😅
now i just want to see the both of you reacting to the scoring of the other to see how your views on what qualifies as good bike infrastructure differ
+1 I agree
Agreed. The part where NJB gave plus point for the disability car (The red "truck" he talked about at the beginning), but that Shifter gave negative points for it. I wonder if his scoring would be different for that if he knows the context. So I really want to know what they think of each others opinions on different aspects of things they came across.
@@Arjay404 njb gave +1 -2 for it not being electric and then didnt talk about others at all, so basically they both lost points
It should be so much easier to build separated bike lanes and paths in the suburbs because of all of the available space.
That space would cost the developers money! And they only part with that when they absolutely have to (and they'll threaten the government that they won't build if they have to do things like put bikelanes or sidewalks in)
@@jeffparker1617 speaking from the Toronto suburb context, they don't even build in these areas anyway, so it's a moot point on their end.
Fr, the generic American suburb has (unmarked) highway sized lanes and parking even though you have driveways that can fit 4 cars alone. Along with the existing green space you could fit bike lanes in very easily but good luck getting that to happen.
@@zackaryrethati7627 i can assure you that a lot of american suburbs at least up in the northeast do not have large lanes, and giant driveways. or sidewalks at all really
I didn't really get the -2 for the Car-Centric Shopping Centre. You can't expect people to not park their cars conveniently at shops that sell a lot of goods not fit to transport on a bicycle 🤣
yeah, that was a bit misjudged
Agreed. This is an area meant for businesses that faciliate these kinds of big purchases. This is not the kind of shopping area where you'd find supermarkets, hairdressers and the likes. Many purchases in these places are only viable with cars. Here one ought to score on how accessible and welcoming it still is to bikes, and I think it passes that test with flying colours.
From a cyclists perspective it makes sense. Drivers dont expect ppl on bikes crossing a parking lot which makes it dangerous
@@yellfire except in Amsterdam drivers know to expect cyclists.
@@yellfire Yes they do, because not everyone needs to buy a whole she'd every time. For anything up to three bags of cement you take a bike to a store.
Sometimes you do need to buy a whole shed and in those cases you need your car and space to load it.
Hey Tom, you said that "it's never too late" and "we need to choose the kind of cities that we want". I totally agree. Thanks for the insight into cycling in Calgary.
Tom, as a NJB-subscriber I was curious about your vid. I like it very much, even more because of your positive attitude. You are very happy about your city and focus on the similarities, rather than the differences. The optimistic, glass is half full reasoning is great and makes one really believe it's achievable everywhere, to create bike friendliness.
Would love a reaction video where the two talk about the difference between how you scored and if that made you look differently at the scoring afterward
Mr and Mrs NJB did a reaction to this video on Patreon. But indeed, I would love to see Shifter’s reaction to NJB too!
I just started biking regularly as a means of transportation rather than just for exercise. Before I'd probably take my bike out, I'm not even kidding, once or twice a year during summer. After discovering your channel along with not just bike I've gotten hooked with biking everywhere within 10km. Thank you!
I made a virtual trip through my small swedish city (mid-sized in Sweden though, 35000 people) and ended up with -4. I had to start at one suburb and go across town to one on the other side to even reach 10km. I tried to be fairly harsh since most streets has low enough traffic to be safe, but I wanted to favor dedicated bicycle infrastructure. We got a fair bit of it, though hardly anything up to dutch standards. Most of it is multi-use and fairly narrow. But given the population size it is good enough.
If it was winter I would likely give +1 for the city having a priority bike network that gets cleared of snow at the same time as the priority road network. I would however have to deduct several points for them down-prioritizing arterial bike/pedestrian paths below regular neighbourhood streets. You usually have to wade through some snow to actually get to the priority bike network.
I just came back from a Bike with tents vacation trip to Sweden. My greatest annoyance was the way the bike roads switched from one side to the other side of the road constantly. Finally making good speed going down a hill and suddenly full on breaks because the separate bike lane stops and you have to switch road side. Still, considering places like Trelleborg, Ystad, Kivik, Ahus, Kristianstad, Hasselholm, Jonkoping and Skovde, They have a decent biking infrastructure. Not The Netherlands. But Way better than the biking Chaos that is KopenHagen, Kopenhagen is about 30 years behind compared to Amsterdam and 40 years compared to the rest of The Netherlands.
A red mini car: *exists*
This guy: T R U C K
Tbf they do sort of look like those mini 3 wheeled trucks from the back
In a bicycle lane, it sure seems like a truck. I've seen golf carts along our bicycle lanes. They are in the way and they never get out of the way quickly enough.
imagine the minicar being optimus prime. not quite the same character when only 1.8 meters tall.
Do you have a point?
NJB was alot stricter with the scoring seeing the difference is great and by the way that micro red truck is for disabled and elderly so should probably also be a +2.
That red thing isn't even a truck, those are bigger.
8:53 Look at that, so used to unnecessarily wide residential streets encouraging speeding drivers it didn't even cross his mind that that's a negative point.
The good news is that it's wide enough to accomodate a protected bike lane either side (or a two-way bike lane with a row of parking.
@@westasleep Just hope they don't make the mistake of putting the parking in such a way the bike lane needs to be crossed. That is accident causing machine. Just like those sudden mergers of bike and car lanes.
Sad to be a Calgarian ☹️. Two thumbs up for being alive at the end of a ride should not be our benchmark 🙄. Great video Tom!
Funny enough Calgary is problem one of the best bike cities in North America lol
Calgary has a huge problem with how it ends bike infrastructure. I've been hit at the olympic way / 11th ave intersection. I've had friend get hit at the 17th ave and 5th st intersection and at the mini mall on 5th street and 11th ave. Because they refused to impact parking on 17th ave, the south termination of the new 11th street bike lane is going to mulch cyclists. The approved design will drop you into traffic from behind a row of parked cars or force you to ride on the sidewalk!
How would making parking on the street to protect bikers be a negative impact?
@@KRYMauL the bike lane ends in such a way that rather than carrying on straight ahead when it ends, cyclists are directed into the traffic lane by a curb. The parked cars hide the cyclist from oncoming traffic.
That shot at 0:54. It went even better than I had anticipated.
Hitting the bicycle with it too was just perfect
@@zackaryrethati7627 And the ball bouncing way into the distance, so he had to go really far to pick it back up while the bike fell to the ground behind him. It went about as badly as it could, given the setup.
Did see both of your rides, great idea....!! "Red truck" was hilarious.....!!! (greetings from Amsterdam)
Mostly people with a disability drive those microcars and it's legal, points back please :)
18:08 while the higher speeds are a factor, I'm pretty sure the main reason the suburban areas in Amsterdam see more separated infrastructure is simple because there are more space available, especially since Dutch don't build bunch bazillion-lane stroads there. They would likely gladly install more separated bicycle paths in the city centre as well, but there often nowhere to put them.
I dislike the argument that the USA and canada don't have "space" for infrastructure. The Netherlands has fifteen times the population density of the USA, and the USA has ten times the population density of Canada. When designing city infrastructure, you allocate as much space for cars or bikes as the planners choose to, and the difference is political will.
It's funny how you give a +1 for the cycle parking in Amsterdam, while there's such a huge shortage of parking spaces, that the building site behind those parked cycles, is going to deliver a parking facility for 7,000 bicycles. In the future, you'll be able to access it from that particular street, and park and walk towards Central Station under water.
The funny thing that stands out about your 2 videos: Jason has a higher number of points he addresses in Amsterdam than Tom does, and they are wáy more city-planning-/traffic-engineering-technical. In Calgary you both have a nice, comparable analysis and number of points.
Both fun to watch! 👍😃
You missed the chicken truck! It's the most important part of the ride!
Gotta refuel on calories after a ride
In Calgary he got offered some crack though... I guess that counts as refueling too? 😉
This semester I decided to ride my bike to university(UofC) and I am so lucky that the route happens to line up great with bike pathways through places like confederation park, if I had to ride mostly on roads I’m not sure I would consider riding an option.
Here's the kicker: that isn't luck! All over Holland, bike highways are being planned, allowing the entire country to be traversed safely and efficiently by bike.
Meanwhile at my university (Mississippi State University) I have no dedicated route to campus despite living only one mile (1.6 km) away. There isn’t even a sidewalk! The campus itself has bicycle infrastructure… but only if you count sharrows. It’s no wonder Mississippi tops the nation for cyclist death rates.
I live in Portland OR. I appreciate your optimistic outlook, I hope things get better for bikes and humans in N. America
Great video, Tom. Hopefully, Calgary can improve on being even more bike-friendly. Looking forward to the next one!
In always fascinated to see bike lanes in other places that let you get from place to place.
I've discovered exactly two bike lanes where I live in the past year and they both start abruptly, end abruptly and go literally nowhere. I don't know what purpose they're supposed to serve.
It's those two short, pointless bike lanes and "share the road" signs here. Oh, and the abandoned trails to trails project. 😐
Story of my city haha
Bike lanes in North America are for cyclist apparently.
I found a fifty-meter bike lane that goes from a turn off US-60E onto a side road, terminated because the sidewalk encroached on it a few meters later... and there wasn't even a concrete ramp to get a bike onto / off of the ramp.
Great video! I grew up in Calgary but moved away 20 years ago. It's wonderful to see how much it has improved.
16:52 I study in Leuven, Belgium and people here (myself included) very often just leave their bikes locked up just anywhere where it doesn't bother anyone. Often an empty wall or lamppost or tree is much closer and easier than the bike stands which might be 50 meters further up the road.
Cringe Belgium vs Based Nederlands
Amsterdam is build in 17th century, so there was no planning for bikes. Outside the city you find the infrastructure that is common in the Netherlands. Almost all the bike-lanes outside the city are completely separate for cars. On some (nature) bicycle roads you can ride for hours without seeing a car. Thanks for the fun video!
Amsterdam got city rights in the 14th century.
Here from Not Just Bikes channel :) cheers and thanks for the video!
Interesting, I lived in Calgary before moving to Amsterdam. Very familiar with both routes shown here! I used to frequent that Home Depot quite a lot, it is indeed difficult to ride to it. Calgary can be ok for cycling if you live near one of the better bike paths. I generally agree with the scoring. Another plus for Amsterdam is that you generally don’t have to go too far to find a store or service compared to Calgary.
Turns out I'm a subscriber to NJB and I live in Calgary. Loved this collaboration. Great work. Maybe we'll see you on the pathways!
Great idea and I really enjoyed the game. It was awesome see the side by side comparison.
As a former Calgarian, I can assure everyone that there is a more bike friendly route between the two Calgary locations, but still Calgary clearly loses the competition. I personally like the signed bikeways as they are typically on lower traffic streets where I don't fear the traffic. Love the video!
Yeah. At first I objected to taking Mission Road, instead of Stanley Park. But then I realized Calgary was going to get creamed no matter what route he took.
Straight from the beginning (3:45): not sure how that is a separated bike lane, it's a line on the ground. If a car so much as swerves you'll end up in the hospital. I have one street like that when going to work and I hate it with a passion.
4:00 now that's a separated bike lane and it's flat for easy biking. Granted, it looks like a sidewalk, but still safer (really separated) than the previous part. I think I'll leave it at that …
Got the same problem in Belgium too. A big chunk of my way to work is compromised of these lines on the ground, they always get me thinking "Yes, today is the day.. i'm gonna die here" and it's super frustrating!!
It’s got bollards! We love bollards. That’s a sign that it was designed to be a bike lane for months if not years to come, whereas most of the few in Calgary could be gone within a week.
Tom gave Calgary positives for that separated lane below the bridge.
let me tell you something about Amsterdam that doesnt show there. There arent bike paths everywhere. What you consider a one lane street in Calgary might be a two lane street in Amsterdam and even if it is a one lane street, bikes are allowed in both directions. I remember in Calgary, when biking on a normal road, drivers would "swerve" into the oncoming lane just to leave enough space between the two of us, in Amsterdam, there are places that this is impossible, like, if you try to do it, you end up in somebody's living room or in a cafe. Very often is door to handlebar cozy and yes, this includes buses and trucks.
Sooooo....
@@noskillzdad5504 It's actually by law that cars must give bikes one metre of space in Calgary. Also, with the higher speed limit, there is less room for error, so giving bikes a wide berth is common.
In my opinion, suburban or rural areas might be the best place to start adding the bicycle infrastructure. There is more than enough space, so you don't have to alter the existing car infrastructure too much. It could really encourage 5-15km bike rides between rural towns or from the suburbs to the city center.
Except most of the suburban towns in the US are technically outside of that limit, maybe if you made it 15km - 30km.
This is true, but the number of people using the infrastructure makes it hard to justify the expense. We have a lot of flood planes and powerline clearings that show up on the master plan for bicycle infrastructure, but we don't have the funding.
@@TimothyFish The funding is there, but no one legislator wants to do anything beyond the minimum because no one bikes.
Chicken and egg problems are easy to solve, but everyone gets caught in the weeds.
@@KRYMauL, you are saying two contradictory things. Unless the powers that be approve the funding, the funding isn't there.
@@TimothyFish All I'm saying is we have the money to do it, but not the will.
Great video idea. Great execution and arguments. Humans need infrastructure conversations like you two propose. 👍👍
"I'm getting quite desperate to take points away"
Completely understandable feeling.
I like this new competitive/comparative channels concept. First seen Jason's, and now seeing how you scored. Subbed.
you should do a video together discussing the routes.
You say "Amsterdam is probably the most bike-friendly city in the world". But basically, this goes for all cities and villages in the Netherlands.
If you make a last of the top 100 safest cities (where a city is 20.000 people or more) I would not be surprised more then 95 of them are Dutch. Great video!
It should probably be amended to "most bike-friendly large city in the world". I'm sure there are plenty of smaller cities and towns in The Netherlands that are much better for biking but they won't get as much international attention as Amsterdam will. Having Amsterdam as a floor for bike friendliness would be a great improvement compared to what we have now haha
Great video, I was inspired to do a similar trip in La Crosse, WI. looking at our infrastructure and bike friendliness. Just started commuting twice a week and your videos have provided me with some great information. Thanks for what your doing!
I was in Amsterdam on vacation last year and I've ridden the exact same route that NotJustBikes rode a month prior to the release of the video. I didn't know either of your channels back then, but it's so cool to see this being judged like that when I can exactly recall how it was in person. Amazing holiday, this brought back some good memories.
My only complaint with the scoring on either channel is that you both docked Calgary for McLeod twice when I would consider that much time on McLeod as poor route planning. While it is quite a bit longer to take Elbow all the way to 56 Ave and not exactly a nice ride, it is orders of magnitude better than cutting across to McLeod at 4 St/Mission Rd. Alternatively, Landsdowne to 4 St is a very pleasant ride aside from a couple steep up hill climbs.
Exactly. Heck, let's earn Calgary back even a few more points in the "Park routes for transportation and pleasure" category by following Elbow on the multi-use pathway until the Rideau Park suspension bridge, then riding through Stanley Park. Linking that ride up to 5 St SW is one of my standard ways to get around town. Though I'm still mourning the loss of the social-distancing-driven lane closure down Elbow...
I'm here because I just finished "the other video''
What a great channel! Thanks a lot for all the quality info and view! Loving it!
Really enjoyed watching both videos. Really interesting how much more cycling aware the Dutch scoring was, for example obstacles in the bike lane which we won't have even thought of scoring down.
Thanks, I've subscribed, looking forward to seeing more videos 😀
Great video! I saw a ton of similarities in both cities to where I ride.
Riding in SLC, there are a handful of roads/streets that I take your point of view. Id rather be alive than ride in that road.
Great video!
I think in general the Netherlands are exception for some solutions. We have as well bike highways between cities... :) across the Netherlands. Of course it is small country... But I agree - it is quite easy to switch to be more bike friendly for cities like Calgary than it looks like. You need just a proper plan - making just a one bike line is not a solution. It could create some chaos. Plus - drivers should as well prtect cyclists... just looking for them. Good luck with this transition. In EU we have still a lot of cities like Calgary - which are not bike friendly. But this is slowly changing...
actually got a video on my channel on 2 different bicycle highways - just footage. maybe someone can do the commentary? :)
Bike infrastructure between cities would only make sense if it was between states/provinces.
Total newbie here. Loving your channel. Enthusiastic, helpful and upbeat. Keep it up, and I'll keep pedaling! Congrats man.
Loved the dedication and effort put into the video. great concept to have different perspectives of different cities or countries.
Good video. I’ve been watching all of your videos, and you do an excellent job. I’m also a fan of Not Just Bikes. I live in New York City where we have made a lot of progress, and I’m glad about that. But we have a long way to go as we can see from Jason’s videos. I was dismayed to see what you have to put up with in Calgary. Not that NYC’s infrastructure is a role model, but yours is bad, too. The best thing about cycling in NYC is that it has become common. Now commuting cyclists are such a common sight that drivers are getting used to us and treat us better than before, for the most part. I think we have reached critical mass that we have a reasonable chance of success when we ask for more space on the streets that TAKES AWAY space from motor vehicles. People who don’t cycle are starting to see that when there are fewer car drivers, conditions improve for everyone, even for car drivers.
@@joepss7946 come visit. I’ll give you a tour. No need to be an avid cyclist. Where are you?
I really enjoyed this pair of videos!
I had fun watching both channels. Great video and idea!
I stand and applaud your collab, because it's a great way to invite people to join in the game, and learn to judge their city on its own merits. The more people that are interested in their surroundings, and improving them, the merrier.
You forgot to score Amsterdam for the presence of a dutch bike :-)
No chance of any North American city coming close to Amsterdam. On my ride this morning I was noticing what my city having done in the past 30:years to improve cycling still undone by some huge impediments. My city has a sporadic multi use path and some unprotected bike lanes but has so far to go given we have a university in the middle of town.
Seeing that American Chevy truck at the end was interesting.
Tom, I love your channel and this little collab was fantastic ... I should also add that I love Jason's channel also. Great job. Cheers.
Primo!!! coming from a guy who with Minnesota Coalition of Bicyclists was doing organized 'winter bike rides' beginning 1982. Please keep up your informative videos. THX!
Amsterdam is quite good to ride a bike, but for Dutch standards it is actualy kinda bad. The historical centre is just too narrow to accomodate all traffic.
Wasn't the center made for pedestrians?
Amsterdam is still good in terms of "big cities". There are definitely smaller cities in The Netherlands that are better for biking but they won't get as much international attention.
Out of interest, as a dutch person, wat would you concider the best large to medium city in the Netherlands for bikes?
Honestly, Calgary downtown seems doable on a bike :-) Surprisingly well done!
It scares me. The traffic and giant intersections.
@@SoopaFlyism Then take the bicycle trails just outside downtown. It's a 5 minute detour but far more relaxing, especially by the river!
Great video Tom! Thank you for sharing! I also like your constructive mindset! Enjoy the ride and see you in another video!
When I lived in Calgary, I tried cycle commuting for a little while. The NE was not bike friendly at all. I always ended up on just the sidewalks because I was terrified to compete with 60km/h traffic on 32nd. I’ve since moved to Red Deer, and love my commutes. We might not have any segregated lanes for bikes, but the paths are mostly excellent.
Here I’ve been watching your videos all summer and it never clicked you were riding on my old turf! Love the content! Keep it rolling!
I would say Amsterdam is quite far down the list of best bicycle cities in the Netherlands because it's crammed and very busy
When compared to North America, where the threshold of bike friendliness is the existence of a couple sparse bike paths if you are lucky, I would say being about to bike anywhere without a constant thought of dying is different level.
@@mikeE997 North American cities need follow the example of Rotterdam not Amsterdam because it would be way to difficult to get even remotely close to that level of bike friendliness. The fact that it's considered below average speaks volumes as to how bad the North American cities really are.
Calgary’s bike infrastructure obviously needs improvements, but I expected it to be much worse. It makes me feel even worse about my own city’s infrastructure (quebec city)
A "few" years ago it was non-existent but they made a strong push (even against people's approval in some places). I remember Memorial Dr (a very used area) would at the beginning close on the weekends I think, and would be just for bikes. Awesome ride but people (drivers) were MAAAAAD!
It was interesting to watch your take on bike infrastructure after watching Jason's. It's definitely a case of being grateful for what you've got, as you scored Calgary higher than he did. I get that! When you see changes happening on your own streets it's hard not to be excited. Sadly, the bar is low here in North America.
You may have missed your chance at being a pro basketball player, but that over shoulder shot, missing the hoop and knocking your bike over was pure comedy gold 🤣
The biggest difference both my wife and I noted is that the route Jason took in Amsterdam is totally bonkers. It was a fine route and a good example of the dutch infrastructure, don't get me wrong. But if he'd *ACTUALLY* taken the assignment literally and gone to his local hardware store, he would have been done in 10-15 minutes, not after 10 kilometers of cycling. He went to a hardware store out in the commercial areas that was built for bulk buying with a car or truck just so he'd have the same sort of distance. Localised shopping means you don't need to go that far for your shopping, so a car is not necessary.
When Jason turned into that park onto the multi-use pathway? Yeah there was a Praxis right there, about halfway along the route (that's the same store chain he ended at). And if he'd really gone to the closest hardware store from the point he started at? That one's 2 minutes by bike.
Yeah but you want to compare the same of length of road. So can see some. If Jason took the nearest hardware store he could almost walk to it.
@@Flyingdutchy04 Yep. But that's a point in favour of the Dutch design, which is one of the most central ones before even the cycle infrastructure: If the shops are local to you, you don't _need_ a car to go to them.
He could have but then the video would have been pointless. Technically, there was also a closer hardware store for Calgary. The point of the video is to compare 20 minutes of cycling in both cities and if it gets difficult if you leave the inner city.
@@CLMBRT He still had many options that were FAR better than MacLeod Trail. If he didn't choose the most logical routes in both Amsterdam and Calgary, then the comparison isn't the best it could be as it highlights a failure of road planning on the rider's part.
First of all, Calgary looks amazing. I am still having these childhood memories of the winter olympics (1988, I was 8 then). If there is a difference between North American vs Dutch cities it is the scale. The Netherlands is a small, but more importantly, a densely populated country which makes any infrastructure investment more cost effective. (But bike lanes are cheaper to build and maintain. But then you would have to replace car infrastructure to make it viable. I can go on but my keyboard is in Dutch so very annoying to type.. keep it up and good luck.
Great to see this game from the viewpoint of both yt channels, cheers.
I watch both of your channels frequently! Glad you got to work with each other!