Soft Top Showdown #5: Honda S2000 vs BMW Z4
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- Опубліковано 27 вер 2019
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Hey Guys It's Joel!
Welcome to Episode #5 of Soft Top Showdown. Today is another one that I've been really looking forward to and that you guys have been long anticipation...
The Honda S2000 vs My BMW Z4!
#SoftTopShowdown #HondaS2000 #BMWZ4
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If you enjoyed this video, please make sure to subscribe as we’ll be doing more Soft Top Showdown episodes very, very soon! Subscribe here: bit.ly/2yCTc4V
Why do all you English fuckers call it a zed
“I’m not an expert on these cars at all” *goes into detailed history of Honda’s and the s2000* this guy is great
He's doing well on his car UA-cam channel. Very knowledgeable and charismatic
I owned both cars. The s2000 was my first convertible 6 speed. I enjoyed it but later got the Z4 3.0i. For everyday driving the Z4 was better and got many more compliments on the Z4 Looks. The s2000 was fun to drive hard but a little boring when not driven hard. While the Z4 is more fun at all speeds. The ride is much better in Z4 without the run flats. The Z4 also comes with more loaded options that make it better.
Despite the fact that I'm a S2000 owner, hopefully most watching this video will agree with me that one of the biggest components involved when it comes to the respective appeal of either of these cars is the soft-top. Which leads to my favorite quote of this video. JayEmm: "I do have a hardtop for it which is never going on this for as long as I own it, because I just don't see the point." Amen James, Amen.
S2000 😍😍 bias though because I’ve just bought one. Love them both 👌👌
Username checks out
S2000 Me too, its such a nice car.
just bought mine in too!!!
@@frostybite6769 they are awesome! Enjoy
Welcome to the club ! Ap1 for life 😆
Imagine if Honda gave the S2000 a 3.0 I6 with a 9k redline. It would sound like the old CBX motorcycle.
That would be epic
I have a 2007 AP2, and so many people think there is no "cup holder" and in secret, there IS! the little compartment next to the shifter, theres a little arm that springs up on the inside that acts like a divider. it was definitely intended to be a cup holder for a very small drink. anything medium size or larger...forget about it...but it is [cup holder] indeed there
Own both...S2k is still my favorite. So pure n simple but she can n will bite you.
Lol. I like the cut scene when he popped the trunk.
Ask a non-S2K owner how to open the fuel door or trunk.
Walk away and come back in an hour and see if they got it.
And the dip stick
One of your best videos, great to see another good channel on here too 👍🏻
S2000 is such a beautiful car.
Stop da cap it ugly
Good to see support of each other and your channels , I subscribe to both channels but also a z4 owner and always enjoy your videos Joel
Great collab, love both channels
Thanks for bringing us yet another vibe 🥂 enjoyed
Thanks alot JayEmm and Joel for making this happen. Like many of your viewers have mentioned here, the S2K is the only legit and direct rival of the E85 Z4. As the 6k rpm passes, the F20C/F22C brings you into another realm. Intoxicating. I have to give it to JayEmm for being the very first Honda JDM car owner that I have seen who is objective and non-biased in his views. Honda fanboys for the most part would regard driving a continental as a downgrade rather than an upgrade. Here, he seems to not mince his words and is direct and fair in his comments. I wish there was a drag race done like this one. The Z4 racing here with the S2K is an E85 3.0.
ua-cam.com/video/f0Ayo2evw_E/v-deo.html
For the viewers, do check out the legendary "Drift King of Japan" Keiichi Tsuchiya driving the E85 Z4. It outgunned the Lotus Elise, Boxster S, Corvette and the Mazda RX7 to tie neck to neck with the S2K, which is pitted as the benchmark apex sportscar.
ua-cam.com/video/kJshQkfbFZo/v-deo.html
I can't think of another car that I'd trade my S2000 for, regardless of price.
There are many faster cars, very many more accessible cars, there are even cars that are more fun to drive (though not that many).
But if pure driving experience is your forte, and you're prepared to work the car, and you want (just) enough creature comforts for a daily driver, there's no better car on a B road.
And the prices are rising, so you'll always be able to sell it for more than you bought it for. Unless you chuck it in a ditch when you get a bit carried away :-)
Well put: "...and you're prepared to work the car..." I've had several high boost vehicles that peaked at the high end and this car resembles their power output without the turbo. It essentially has the soul of a big high RPM turbo, and they're a blast! But for me silky smooth, torquey (sp?), predictable power build is the way to go on twisty roads. Ala Z3. Forget all the nonsense from armchair reviewers, I've owned three of them (2.5,2.8, and now 3.0), and as Top Gear and Fifth Wheel found they're great handling cars. Wave from the ditch when I drive by!
Love this , very enjoyable 👍
Good to see you guys together...
Finally an actual rival, the other few haven’t really been in the same league
Boxster was in a league above!
@@papatorr3669 5000£ for 0.5s? I don't think it was. Yes, a mid mounted 6 cylinder boxer engine is great. But you'd have to spend a fair amount to reach another league with that car.
@@cristianofernandes8968 Help me out. I live by the Smoky mountains, and neither of those cars would keep up with a Boxster. On these roads the Boxster IS in a league above. No stock Z4, Z3, Miata, TT, z350, and certainly NOT any S2000 with it's off/on mostly off power band is gonna keep up, let alone with it's composure. What do you mean by 5000 for 0.5?
@@papatorr3669 I should have asked before. What boxster are we talking about?
@@cristianofernandes8968 Hmm, look, if you consider a league above a McLaren or Ferrari then, I guess it depends on the definition. I have an '00 2.7L 5spd Boxster. What I mean is, the cars I mentioned above can slide around a bit by swinging out their rear ends. They're fun to varying degrees, and they telegraph their limits, and you can handle them with a moderate skill level, but they remind me that I'm not a pro. I could go on, but I want to cut to the chase: The Boxster sticks to the road like a slot car, and it's limits are higher. We have posted 25mph curves that my slightly lowered, KYB strut Camry can take at ~45mph, my 330ci at ~50mph, and my z3 at ~55mph, and they're starting to slide. The Boxster takes them ~63mph and it does it on a rail. With the 986: if you go in too hot, it makes believe it didn't notice; pick the wrong line? Eh, pick a new line, the 986 is nonplussed. It makes you feel like a pro. The only thing is, past the adhesion limit, it spins more than slides. I was in the passenger seat when the person driving didn't heed my warning, and when it let go, it spun around and real quick. The z3 and the MX5 give me the most warning and time to adjust, or to just let 'em slide. I'm not a pro, so I can't drift the Boxster, but i can slide around the curves with the front engine rear wheel models. Don't know if that helps, but to me the other cars mentioned are not on the Boxster's level. What is 5,000 for 0.5s?
Glad you mentioned the price difference, it’s getting bigger all the time. I remember when S2Ks were pretty damn cheap.
Hellll yeah!! Awesome comparison!!
JayEmm love his channel...awesome video. Well there both different cars to drive it's a tough one to pick
wonderful video, i prefer long episodes because youtube is the new TV :) great work!
Thanks buddy!
For those of you tall guys wondering, you probably CAN fit! I'm 6'5" and just under 240lbs. I have owned both the AP1 and AP2 and my go to solution was an aftermarket bucket seat and seat rail. The best combo of those is the Recaro Pole Position and Buddy Club Super Low Down seat rail. Further, I have a 36-38 inch waist and I fit in a Pole Position just fine. With the seat setup, I gained nearly 2 inches above my head with a soft top and probably around 3 when I added a Mugen hard top. Hope that helps someone looking at an S2000!
Thanks for sharing this William
@@itsjoel Of course! Once I reunite with my car in Germany I need to make a video to show people just how much headroom I have. I can put my fist on top of my head and still have room to spare.
William Carter fantastic!
Awesome video! Ur friend had a ton to say about his s2000 which was perfect! I feel like IVE driven the car now hahah
Awesome! Jayemm told me about this over the weekend and I'm so glad I came and watched it. Really enjoyed this! Looks like great fun! We've all got to do a video together.
Good review guys well done 👍
Nice! Very informative on the S2000
Thanks for watching
Can you do an SLK comparison please
Owned a z4, mk2 mx5, mgtf, mr2 roadster and currently have the Audi TT and just bought an MK3 MX5 Niseko but out of them all my favourite has to be the MgTf. Had 2 TF’s and an F and loved them. Wouldn’t mind the S2000 but have a bucket list of daft 2 seaters and the next on the list will be a smart roadster or a boxster. Keep the vids coming, it was thanks to you I opted for the Z4 and loved every minute.
The S2000 is probably a slightly better car overall but you just can’t beat the look of the Z4 in its age and class. Give me the Zed.
That's why I bought a Z4 3.0i...the S2000 looks like its from 1992.
@Vinny Booboo Have you?
@@nathanpartridge3565 same the early models are very regal
Your z4 probably new bushings at the front, ball joints and tie rods to restore the original steering feel.
I agree. I had new polybushed arb, new control arms with polybush, drop links and front strut brace. Makes a massive difference in handling.
@@johnthesifu Cheapest mod in that regard: Z4M sway bars. Add some light weels and coilovers (Bilstein B12) and you have a rather good setup.
This is definitely one of the best showdown vids, what the channel is all about and should keep them up. Is it me or is Jay more enthusiastic on other people’s channels ?
Totally agree. You can tell the difference when you have a car enthusiast like James here vs Josh and his ‘no aircon’ Boxster.
Very enjoyable look at the Z4 and its rivals. Handy for people with a few grand to splash on a second car and saves poking around used car dealerships to find out things that make a difference to the owners.
That was the magic of Honda Motorbikes, High Revving 20,000+ on Race bikes
great seeing a collaboration with James, S2000 is my vote Joel but close as you say.
I know this is old but I’m glad I watched it. Currently have a Z4 semi-automatic which I’m getting rid of and replacing it with an S2000. The reason is exactly as Jayemm said and some others on here. The Z4 drives great, but it’s not a great car. The power is easy to exploit and the handling predictable. The S2000 is far more rewarding if you work at it. In other words it’s asks you to drive it, rather than doing it all for you. The Z4 is a fast convertible. The S2000 is an exciting convertible. That’s the major difference.
I always felt the s2000 was the poor brother of the z4m but as time goes on and i see the way car manufactures have gone I love that they both exist. They represent the last generation of cars I care about. Who gives a fuck about electric engines? im not paying 50k for a car that has no attitude. Both of these cars exist because of people that cared about cars. I worry that not enough people exist to make old school inline 6. my next car will be older not newer. Sad but true. MY F10 M5 is not on the same level as the z4m i owned in the 2000s. It's faster but not the same experience. BMW need to wake up.
I agree. I am disgusted by the abandonment of the manual handbrake, combined with ruinous pedestrian safety fat suits dictated by the arrogant EU, I will not buy a car from ~2014 onwards.
Jay has that s2000 hair like me! I also own and drive a yellow ap1 States side.
BTW, the ashtray is a cupholder here in the states.
i own an ap2 in the states as well :)
As good as the m54 is a far better comparison would’ve been the n52 3.0si. 265bhp and noticeably quicker than the s2000 in a straight line.
Ive owned both and its the z4 for me, the s2000 is far superior round a track or on a Sunday morning blast, but for day to day driving which is what most of us do 95% of the time especially on crowded uk roads then the z4 blows the s2000 out of the water. Then n52 makes peak torque at 2750rpm, it has so much low down and mid range grunt.
Thanks great comparison. I was looking at these Hondas and got the Z4 mostly because of price. I would have liked to hear the Z4 taking off from behind. One perhaps behind the other although I know you would need a camera man. Both awesome cars. I love my Z4. Over 60,000 miles and so far no problems. The former owners.2, looked after it very well.
Can you please continue the soft top show down? Even if it’s not cars you own anymore, just reviewing other soft tops and comparing them to other models. So many cars to be covered, Audi TT mk1, Audi TT mk2, mini roadster, bmw 1 series, bmw 2 series, etc. Love this content Joel!
Bit late to this one but a solution to the exhaust thing is just get a modified back box rather than straight pipes. Mine's probably 80% of the loudness, plus has the pops and bangs but doesn't drone.
S2000. It’s just one of those “timeless” cars.
Love to see jay, and I’d love you to find a 1 series cabrio to compare to the Z4, like a 135i N54 or 130i N52 cabrio. Particularly with regards to driving position, I like to sit as low as possible and that’s probably where the z4 shines?
Great video this guy knows his stuff and was very informative! Would have been great to see you drive the Honda tho and give your opinion on that 🤷🏼♂️
Joel is always welcome to come back in future and have a go
Glad you enjoyed the video buddy
i was waiting for you to drive it too
Can someone from the UK explain what the s2000 exhaust hack mod is? Us American have trouble making 4cyl sound this good!
I own a 2004 facelift S2000 for around 15 years ❤ she's a keeper. Mine alao has those headrest speakers (which are rare). That UK exaust mod is interesting, just wondering if that additional pipe / loop, makes the gas flow less efficient / if the car not slightly looses performance over the stock non loop setup? Has anyone got before and after dyno results?
I really depends how it’s done, I do the uk mod with a curved pipe that keeps the flow in line. I don’t agree with doing a simple “H” by-pass.
something must be wrong in the steering because mine has zero slop and is very direct off center.
I just found your channel. I recommend you add a strong strut strut tower bar to your E85. You’ll appreciate the extra rigidity.
Owned both e89 sDrive35is and AP1 at the same time. S2k was for track duty. Hugely biased, but for me, S2k all day, everyday, any day. 🏁
No, this is the E85 not E89 big difference
Good video mate. Been waiting for this 1. Massive fan of Honda's passion for engineering and driver pleasure. S2000 always been a cracking car but I have to say bang for u buck the Z4 has it by a country mile. Certainly wouldn't fork out twice as much for a car that u can't even adjust the steering wheel on. 👍👍👍
Have you ever driven the s2000? I wouldn't fork twice as much for one either but god damn they are special cars.
@@crate2819 I, and a few S2000 buddies of various sizes, have never had an issue with the fixed steering wheel. Adjusting the seat has always sufficed. For whatever that's worth.
Definitely the most interesting car on soft top show down! Just wish he had expanded more on the JDM version and how it compares with UK and US etc
Thanks for watching!
Z4 is cheaper and that makes it much more fun then S2000.
It is fucking expensive $100,000
RealMusky I paid 4000 for my 3.0 6 speed
@@danefelty1935 I just bought mine for 4700 07 auto
That depends on the Z4 that you buy z4m Coupe will cost you over $40,000 because they're rare there is only 3,800 of Z4 Coupes made 1500 of them were Z4 M coupes. They had over 340 horsepower and that particular engine is very tunable. Z4m Coupes are extremely rare and the 3.0 SI is also rare. So if you're going to buy an average Z4 then probably it would be cheaper but not all Z4 are created equal.
Andy Chavez actually you can find Z4M Coupes in the mid 20s. If you compare a Z4M Coupe to a CR S2000 then prices are also in the 30-40s+ some even close to 60k give or take depending on mileage.
The Wheeler Dealer video with Ed sorting out the dodgy engine on one of these Honda's is interesting to watch
the s2k is prolly a more special car, being much rarer, but i'd take the z4 all day everyday. the lack of torque up to 6k is a deal breaker for me.
Driving it wrong, you just drive it one gear lower than any other normal car its not hard
@@iCozzh if you're a teenager, I guess it's fine, screaming everywhere between 6 and 9k. I'm a bit older, and I much prefer cruising at 3k with plenty of torque on demand.
@@mistreku then down shift.. youre wanting a powerful car with no sound or character then buy a tesla lmao, you dont buy an S for power you buy it to be a proper driver round the bends whilst keeping it in the power band
You two work well together. I really enjoyed it.
Great glad you enjoyed it
Here in Canada we got the 2.2 liter ones.
I was dead set on a S2k because Ive had something VTEC my entire life but I bought a Z4 3.0i because I wanted torque, I wanted to have fun driving slow around town...plus it as almost 7k less than any equivalent S2K.
In the US, the Z4 3.0 is probably $1-2k USD less than the S2000 BUT BMW parts are expensive as hell in the states so S2000 makes more sense. I enjoy revving it out tbh, a sports car needs a good high RPM powerband IMO
@@philspaghet yeah, I had a b16 Eg civic and a Integra GSR so I feel you. However the best buy I found on a clean S2k under 100k miles was 15k and I got a 3.0i z4 with 6spd and 63k miles for 8.2k. m54 Mechanical parts are on par with F20c cost wise. Its electronics that kill. And I added a shark injector which raised redline to 7k which is only 1k less revs than the AP2s I was shopping for. All that said if I was only tracking the car I would have bought the S2K.
@@carsinruin6102 I got my AP1 for 9k USD so I'm pretty satisfied with it. I love the razor sharp handling too much to give up for some more torque tbh
@Floppy Bunny I got mine with a clean title with 140k miles lol
S2000 by far😅
The sound of that Honda engine though!!!
Also....never notices how much JayEmm looks like Nick Frost
it does have a glove box, it does have a cup holder and that is not rio yellow. it is spa yellow.
Nice video. Pretty sure the S2000 is referred to as a Civic in the middle somewhere :)
Great video Joel!! Still prefer the Z4
It doesn't have a glove box but does have one between the seats on the back
Love the S2000 want one so bad
Curious why there is so much play in your steering. Mine is super tight and even a slight movement of the steering wheel gets an immediate response from the car.
1:02 thank you. Siri just tried to call Susan
Omg Joel thank you so much for the S2000 review iv heard so much about these cars being great and iv allwas thott they were pretty cool but there about 3/4 of a second slower than the cars im looking at so on paper i wasn't that impressed iv watched countless videos on the s2000 and failed to understand what all the hype was about that is until I watched your video and I heard that insane screem to redline holly shit that really gave me a good idea of what it might be like to drive one being a sport bike rider and that led me to go test drive one wich led to me buying one so thank you so much if It wasn't for your video I never would have driven a s2000 and I'd be sitting in a 370z right now not that there's any thing wrong with the 370z it's actually faster than the s2000 but totally different driving experiences and the s2000 feels insanely faster than it is it's a very exciting car to drive i was shopping for a c6 corvette organaly befor i really new how big they were so I actually saved a lot I only paid 12k for mine iv seen them for 20k on the west side of the country also mine has 137k miles so I'm going to see if I can find a 50 state legal super charger for it thank agen man great job
S2000 looks a bit dated to me while the z4 has got that classic timeless roadster shape. I looked at both for a while but getting an s2000 without rust was a worrying sign. Got myself a 2006 z4 3.0si in the end and am proper happy. Blacked it all out, real head turner and sounds terrific
Rust was an excuse?😭
I have to say the N52 engine in the later E85 Z4s is a far superior lump.
It really is worth revving out to the 7k redline. Power builds throughout.
My N52 2.5si is about as quick as the M54 3.0.
Engine is lighter too.
Luv and Peace.
Ive owned both and the z4 with the n52 is the far, far better day to day driver. Bags and bags of low down torque.
Jay is the GOAT
Hello Joel and everyone! What is your opinion about... how long does the soft top roof last on a daily driven and non garaged BMW Z4 E85?
My car has got almost 150,000 miles on it, never been garage, roof never replaced and still looks brand new, no leaks.
@@itsjoel Thanks mate, good to hear that :)
I have a black z4 with red interior and 6sp manual.... looking to add an s2000 😀😀😀😀
cool to have jayemm on the channel
Lynda Linkedin yeah definitely, he’s great!
You obviously used a Peasant spec Z4 for this otherwise the Honda S2000 would have been left way behind. The Z4M gives Porsche Caymans a run for their money.
Haha its my Z4, but it’s high mileage. A later generation/facelift Z4 would be a better for an S2K, and the Z4M is a step above
@@itsjoel The M4 costs way more.
"spa yellow" for ap1`s ;) Rio yellow is ap2 (facelift in europe)
A proper front mid engine car, something I wish the BMW G29 had done.....given it's the last ICE Z4 ever....such a shame they did not want to go out on a bang!!...with a real memorable convertible Z4 now we just have to reflect on the 507 for real class.
G29 is the death knell for the Z4 series. The downhill started with the E89 and the G29 is the final nail in the coffin.
How can you compare two cars when you are driving and talking about just one of them the entire time?
The Z4 still looks amazingly good for its age. The s2000 looks like it’s from the 90s. Still a great car but I’ll take the z4 any day.
the s2000 is a racing car, the z4 is for grandparents to ride, now we know what kind of driver you are
What about the Z4?!
I have a z3 m roadster and I wish that I had waited to save more money for an s2000. The bmw z3m is too expensive to maintain even if it’s reliable model.
I'll swap you!
@@bobbyhorsman9963 You have an s2000 ap1?
@@TheCOWBOYRANCHER I have a UK facelift 2006 model. 39000 miles.
@@bobbyhorsman9963 Those are nice 👍🏼
Hi Joel, my Z4 has a little storage unit underneath the passenger seat you should check it out. Greets from a dutch follower
Thanks, yes noticed that! Mine still has the original medical kit in it!
S2000 alllllllll day.
no headrest speakers mate
S2000 really disappointed me, a great looking thing but 95% of the time I'd rather just have an NC MX5 for half the cost, as the S2000 is only better for that extra ~2500rpm
Actually the S2000 engine is based the K20. Even some parts are interchangeable.
No it’s not 😂. The K series wasn’t even in production when the S2000 was launched.
Good review but why didn't you do the 0 to 60 comparison? That would have been the best part.
Thanks for watching Nick and fair question. It’s not always possible to include every challenge for different reasons such as, road conditions near the shoot location (which always changes), time restrictions & therefore filming limitations.
Yes exactly. That was what I was hoping for. Omg...Joel bro...how I wish you had done a drag race. They will be neck to neck for sure.
Neither of these cars are for drag racing
VTEC vs VANOS.
Great video.
Z4 definitely looks better and sounds better though.
Jay Emm's channel is brilliant and one of my gotos.
Luv and Peace.
looks ugly and outdated and sounds worst. Don't know what your on about
@@user-zv5ve7zm1w What roadster still looks more modern than the E85 Z4?
It's a timeless design.
Also if you don't think an NA straight six sounds good you're tired of life.
Luv and Peace.
The comparison should have been against the M Roadster.
this was a great video but honestly I don't have time to watch such a long video so I recommend to shorten it a bit in the future
Musaka Grah123 Bro, it’s 32 minutes. 😂
@@thenullco you get the point
It's too short. I requested for 1 hour minimum. Wish there was a drag race! Damn...it's like a wet dream.
Thanks. Some people like longer content, some like shorter. Couldn’t possibly make this any shorter without cutting information that other people could potentially find useful.
S2000 runs like a Two Stroke: Power off, Power on. The anti-torque engine. The Z4 has silky smooth, linear, predictable, naturally aspirated torque power.
I'll take the award winning BMW inline six over the award winning Honda four.
S2000 is a much sort after car here in the state . It almost like a Unicorn hardly ever see one on the road.
A little less conversation...... I was hoping to see them battle side by side but instead there was just a lot of talk and low speed cruising
The Honda's about screaming all the way to 9000rpm and is exciting in gung ho mode. However, the cold facts are these. The Beemer accelerates quicker (6.1s vs 6.3s 0-100 kph), is faster (249kph vs 240), outbrakes it (35.7m vs 37.2m 100 - 0 kph) , outhandles it (8'32" vs 8'39" around the Nurburgring), sounds better (sonorous inline 6 vs raucous 4-pot) and has stonking low-down torque (300Nm@3500rpm vs 208Nm@7500rpm). [All figures Zeperfs]
For me, it's a no brainer...
Good thing for you.
So S2000 then
No offense to honda but i'd take the manual version of the bmw z4... Just a better quality of a car. The SI version is alot faster as well. McLaren F1 the best super car's engine came from BMW. The new Toyota Supra is made completely by BMW for a reason...
Yes, the reason the new Supra is a BMW is to save cost.
Is that Mike Brewers son in the purple shirt.??? 👍😃
A Toyota MR2 mk3 and a Merc SLK comparison shall be done some time.
Z4M would be my choice
Easy winner!