Gonna say though, conicals are quite a bit quieter than the flat burrs I've worked with. Also retention on larger conicals such as Roburs are catastrophic.
Even though we have a good grinder, we decided to get a low cost grinder which utilized the block(?) burrs for a different location. It produced a crazy amount of fines so we returned it immediately.
I got one of those when I lost a part for my old conical grinder, and it produced a wide variety of grind sizes, all at once. I wound up ordering a replacement part for my old grinder. I'll stick with conical grinders for reasonable consistency and minimal hassle.
"We don't really see much of a difference in espresso quality grinders..." I'm not sure if I'm reading and understanding this correctly. Are you saying that conical and flat burrs are both suitable for espresso-sized fine grinds? If so, do you find them equally comparable for medium or course grinds? For the sake of time, convenience, and quantity, I'm really drawn to drip coffee in particular. But I'm uncertain whether to go for a conical or flat burr, and whether to choose between ceramic or stainless steel. Do you feel for drip coffee that such concerns really matter in the long run?
Here's my take on it, from what I can extrapolate based on what I've heard. Let me first say, espresso quality grinders are expensive, so the difference may not be very drastic due to the high cost, making the end product very reliable, and consistent regardless of burr design used. But that is due to them being well over 200$ for a true espresso quality grinder that will have absolutely no issues. Now for your questions directly. Both are, technically, but it's your grinder's capabilities that make it suitable or not. A lower end may not have that fine a grain at the finest setting sufficient enough for espresso, but I would say that they would work very properly for medium to coarse grinds. Conical versus flat is a good question, I would say conical is better for consistency, and the difference between ceramic and stainless is not that big a deal. I would say go with stainless, but I think either would not be any different from the other. For drip coffee, rather than espresso, you're using medium grinds, medium fine- medium coarse, so you're in a zone where a lower end grinder will work where espresso needs much pricier grinders to be sufficient consistently. I recommend any kind of burr grinder, I am partial to the cappresso infinity, but I'm strapped for cash, so I went for a Cappresso 559, dunno how it'll do, I'm waiting on it, but truth be told, any burr grinder is going to work about the same as another, and for a normal cup of coffee not focus on pure perfection, just go for what you think will work in your price range, and frankly, as long as it's a burr, what kind isn't as big of a deal as blade versus burr versus pre-ground.
If conical burrs and flat burrs don't produce any flavor profile differences, wouldn't conical burrs be the superior one due to low grind retention and the fact that flat burrs are why we keep the grinder running when switching settings?
A lot of people seem to prefer the taste of flat burrs, and flat may have less variation despite the fines. But I heard flat burrs are also more prone to alignment issues, so... lots of pro's and cons to each. I think the specific grinder and the construction / design of the burr is the most important thing, there are good connical grinders, and bad ones, good flat ones and bad ones.
Great info! I knew the difference between flat and conical but always wondered about the tiny (cheap) one and how it differed from the others. It all makes sense now.....and why I now have a Breville Smart Grinder Pro to replace my Bodum and Cuisinarts. :) Thanks Josh!
A lot of people seem to say that conical burs give more acidic / fruity flavours, but less body and less chocolately caramel notes. They also say flat burrs are better for really light roasts, maybe because acids are too intense with a light roast and conicals, but It all depends on your tastes I guess, I think with milk drinks that would make it more interesting.
Update: I find I prefer flat burr grinders, maybe because I am more used to them, but it seems like flat burrs give a more balanced taste, there's some bitterness, sweetness, acidity and fruit notes in a light roast as there should be, and some roasty / chocolatey notes depending on the coffee and how you extract it as well. With conical burrs I seem to be getting more acidity and reduced bitterness, some people may think less bitter is better, but to me it seems off balance, and when you're doing milk drinks it makes the coffee seam weaker to me.
Why would there be any difference? If both are crushing the bean to a specific diameter ground, why would there be any difference in flavor? Unless 1 machine heats the coffee bean up during the process? But that is doubtful. It seems to me that the desired result is 100% consistency in grounded beans.
@@j0shll0yd lots of different factors burr geometry such as the prebreaker area, the angle size, shape and length of the teeth, and grinder rpm even burr coating and material can make a difference In how the coffee particle distribution ends up. Sometimes its enough to be apparent to the naked eye other times it might look the same but grind distribution being different will affect your espresso shot timing and extraction / taste. Apparently conical burrs also produce a differently shaped particle.
Learning and gathering information to purchase a good grinder.....this is informative, especially the bit about running a flat burr grinder as you go towards a more finer grind. Thank you!
interesting which type of bur do Automatic coffee machines use i have a Delongi Magnifica S and would like to now what type it uses and if the burr is changeable
II see enormous range in price for different coffee grinders with the similar burrs -- like the conical burrs you showed, for example -- What would make one machine do a better job at grinding espresso than another, if they both have the same size and type of burr?
Well, I didn't know that on a flat burr. To adjust the size while the motor is running. Perfect sense. Is a ceramic burr better than a steel burr. I heard the steel will rust. But there is oil in the beans not water. Which is the better material for the burr?
Steel rusting is not a problem as long as you regularly clean your grinder and never expose it to water. Ceramics are not very common, but tend to be slightly harder/long lasting than plain steel; more common are surface coated steel burrs (e.g. TiN or Tungsten), which are based on steel, but have ultra-hard surface treatments that increase their lifetime massively. Grind quality may vary a small amount depending on the burr material, but it should be mostly negligible in a home environment, and it depends much more on the size, type, and geometry of the burr.
There are a lot of kind of manual coffee grinder out in the market, it would be really helpful if you guys can make an update video about what's the best. thank you
So basically, better stay away from block burrs and invest in either a good quality flat or conical burr. I am currently using a very cheap block burr grinder and although it works, it feels I am missing out a bit on flavor and I indeed see a lot of fines and boulders in my grinds. Think I am going to save up to buy a better one!
hi, I am looking to purchase a conical burr set with motor module. Please refer to any of ODM's who deals with subsystem level supply. Appriciate your support.
Sprometheus did a comparison and he found the flat burr grinders brought out more of the heavy chocolatey notes in the espresso and the conical emphasised the more fruity acidic notes when he used the same beans and recipe.
Funny how burrs were just burrs 6 years ago. But apparently in 2023, conical burrs give your coffee a chocolatey taste. Let me guess, everything changed after Covid!
This. An older Clive Coffee video for a conical grinder (Macap?) notes bright flavors. Lance H. has noted "random" brightness in shots from conicals like Niche Z. that he says doesn't fit in the shot flavors (disharmony) and in one person's comparison video of Niche Zero to Cast burr the taster noted the Zero was dominant of green apple citrus flavor while the flat burr-Cast had some; more chocolate taste that was lacking from Niche but then so many YT vids point out body and dominant or prevailing chocolate notes from Niche Z. Even with light roasts so many says Niche-that type conical "pushes" flavor to chocolate. Seems the burr is biggest factor in sense people have to try a lot of different beans-roasts on flat burr and conical burr then discover for themselves then go and buy a better grinder that will last years and years versus going w/conventional wisdom. Old posts on H-B talk about great clarity from larger conicals like Robur or even that they 'eked' out great results when the Niche Zero was released. Maybe people just need to get better at 1:1 or lower dosing etc.. along with 1:2, 1:3 'turbo' to really get best result from any good grinder-burr. Regards
I want a burr that’s quality and that will not “end up in my coffee” bit by bit. I need grounds that are course for cold brew. What is the best for this?
I am anxiously seeking a burr grinder, but w unemployment, trying to find a decent but inexpensive one is challenging. Any recommendations? I was thinking maybe..Mercari, or Amazon, but not sure..
it might be some other factor but I feel like with conical (sette specifically) there is a tad less richness in my cup...I assume this is because there are less fines. Not a big deal...it depends on what you want...I can get a better range of milder notes from the sette so it seems to work better for lighter roasts but to me it seems like a less traditional shot in some ways...happy with both though.
"for espresso flat and conical produce good grind"... Yes but for Drip type coffee, the Conical burr is vastly superior to the flat burr.. that is just a fact.
Sooo… a useless video. There’s definitely flavor profile differences and other technical differences besides the general appearance of the burrs. What’s the point of this video if you don’t talk about those or give your opinion?
Gonna say though, conicals are quite a bit quieter than the flat burrs I've worked with. Also retention on larger conicals such as Roburs are catastrophic.
Retention is more an issue of the design of the grinder, not the burr type. See, Niche Zero has a large conical burr that of Mazzer Kony.
Even though we have a good grinder, we decided to get a low cost grinder which utilized the block(?) burrs for a different location. It produced a crazy amount of fines so we returned it immediately.
I got one of those when I lost a part for my old conical grinder, and it produced a wide variety of grind sizes, all at once. I wound up ordering a replacement part for my old grinder. I'll stick with conical grinders for reasonable consistency and minimal hassle.
"We don't really see much of a difference in espresso quality grinders..."
I'm not sure if I'm reading and understanding this correctly. Are you saying that conical and flat burrs are both suitable for espresso-sized fine grinds? If so, do you find them equally comparable for medium or course grinds? For the sake of time, convenience, and quantity, I'm really drawn to drip coffee in particular. But I'm uncertain whether to go for a conical or flat burr, and whether to choose between ceramic or stainless steel. Do you feel for drip coffee that such concerns really matter in the long run?
Here's my take on it, from what I can extrapolate based on what I've heard. Let me first say, espresso quality grinders are expensive, so the difference may not be very drastic due to the high cost, making the end product very reliable, and consistent regardless of burr design used. But that is due to them being well over 200$ for a true espresso quality grinder that will have absolutely no issues.
Now for your questions directly. Both are, technically, but it's your grinder's capabilities that make it suitable or not. A lower end may not have that fine a grain at the finest setting sufficient enough for espresso, but I would say that they would work very properly for medium to coarse grinds. Conical versus flat is a good question, I would say conical is better for consistency, and the difference between ceramic and stainless is not that big a deal. I would say go with stainless, but I think either would not be any different from the other. For drip coffee, rather than espresso, you're using medium grinds, medium fine- medium coarse, so you're in a zone where a lower end grinder will work where espresso needs much pricier grinders to be sufficient consistently. I recommend any kind of burr grinder, I am partial to the cappresso infinity, but I'm strapped for cash, so I went for a Cappresso 559, dunno how it'll do, I'm waiting on it, but truth be told, any burr grinder is going to work about the same as another, and for a normal cup of coffee not focus on pure perfection, just go for what you think will work in your price range, and frankly, as long as it's a burr, what kind isn't as big of a deal as blade versus burr versus pre-ground.
Flat burrs are the best for consistancy and even grind for espresso so flat burrs are the best
If conical burrs and flat burrs don't produce any flavor profile differences, wouldn't conical burrs be the superior one due to low grind retention and the fact that flat burrs are why we keep the grinder running when switching settings?
Excellent point
A lot of people seem to prefer the taste of flat burrs, and flat may have less variation despite the fines. But I heard flat burrs are also more prone to alignment issues, so... lots of pro's and cons to each. I think the specific grinder and the construction / design of the burr is the most important thing, there are good connical grinders, and bad ones, good flat ones and bad ones.
Great info! I knew the difference between flat and conical but always wondered about the tiny (cheap) one and how it differed from the others. It all makes sense now.....and why I now have a Breville Smart Grinder Pro to replace my Bodum and Cuisinarts. :) Thanks Josh!
do you have a monolith yet? =]
I have Kenwood burr mill grinder CG600. It’s running quickly and even the finest position, coffee come out coarsely.
Thanks for clarifying that this is mostly about espresso. How about for pourover?
A lot of people seem to say that conical burs give more acidic / fruity flavours, but less body and less chocolately caramel notes.
They also say flat burrs are better for really light roasts, maybe because acids are too intense with a light roast and conicals, but It all depends on your tastes I guess, I think with milk drinks that would make it more interesting.
Update: I find I prefer flat burr grinders, maybe because I am more used to them, but it seems like flat burrs give a more balanced taste, there's some bitterness, sweetness, acidity and fruit notes in a light roast as there should be, and some roasty / chocolatey notes depending on the coffee and how you extract it as well. With conical burrs I seem to be getting more acidity and reduced bitterness, some people may think less bitter is better, but to me it seems off balance, and when you're doing milk drinks it makes the coffee seam weaker to me.
Why would there be any difference? If both are crushing the bean to a specific diameter ground, why would there be any difference in flavor? Unless 1 machine heats the coffee bean up during the process? But that is doubtful.
It seems to me that the desired result is 100% consistency in grounded beans.
@@j0shll0yd lots of different factors burr geometry such as the prebreaker area, the angle size, shape and length of the teeth, and grinder rpm even burr coating and material can make a difference In how the coffee particle distribution ends up. Sometimes its enough to be apparent to the naked eye other times it might look the same but grind distribution being different will affect your espresso shot timing and extraction / taste. Apparently conical burrs also produce a differently shaped particle.
Learning and gathering information to purchase a good grinder.....this is informative, especially the bit about running a flat burr grinder as you go towards a more finer grind. Thank you!
is conical burr better than flat burr in terms of grinding for drip coffee?
interesting which type of bur do Automatic coffee machines use i have a Delongi Magnifica S and would like to now what type it uses and if the burr is changeable
We went from a cheap block grinder to a Baratza Encore and couldn't be happier with the results. I wouldn't change from a conical burr grinder.
Thanks for clearing that up. Was always a little confused with the burrs. Great video and review! Thanks!
Is there any way to salvage coffee ground with block burrs?
Odd question what type can you adjust the size of the burr and can you grind something like tobacco?
Yes, it does
II see enormous range in price for different coffee grinders with the similar burrs -- like the conical burrs you showed, for example -- What would make one machine do a better job at grinding espresso than another, if they both have the same size and type of burr?
Alignment and materials. Conical grinders are harder to make perfectly aligned than flat.
@@cybernessful that makes sense. thanks
How do you remove the burr on the old Breville 860XL model? I have a flat burr. There’s no acorn nut sticking out.
Wow good clarification in a spot on to the point video without the fluff. Bravo!
Looking at a Ceado grinder. Would you recommend with flat or conical? Why your decision??? Thanks
Well, I didn't know that on a flat burr. To adjust the size while the motor is running. Perfect sense.
Is a ceramic burr better than a steel burr. I heard the steel will rust. But there is oil in the beans not water.
Which is the better material for the burr?
Steel rusting is not a problem as long as you regularly clean your grinder and never expose it to water. Ceramics are not very common, but tend to be slightly harder/long lasting than plain steel; more common are surface coated steel burrs (e.g. TiN or Tungsten), which are based on steel, but have ultra-hard surface treatments that increase their lifetime massively. Grind quality may vary a small amount depending on the burr material, but it should be mostly negligible in a home environment, and it depends much more on the size, type, and geometry of the burr.
There are a lot of kind of manual coffee grinder out in the market, it would be really helpful if you guys can make an update video about what's the best. thank you
So basically, better stay away from block burrs and invest in either a good quality flat or conical burr.
I am currently using a very cheap block burr grinder and although it works, it feels I am missing out a bit on flavor and I indeed see a lot of fines and boulders in my grinds. Think I am going to save up to buy a better one!
How to resharpen grinding plates
hi, I am looking to purchase a conical burr set with motor module. Please refer to any of ODM's who deals with subsystem level supply. Appriciate your support.
I keep reading that Conicals retain a lot more than flats, contrary to what you mentioned
Sprometheus did a comparison and he found the flat burr grinders brought out more of the heavy chocolatey notes in the espresso and the conical emphasised the more fruity acidic notes when he used the same beans and recipe.
All things being the same which is better block burr vs conical at a $60 price point?
Conical most likely.
Funny how burrs were just burrs 6 years ago. But apparently in 2023, conical burrs give your coffee a chocolatey taste. Let me guess, everything changed after Covid!
This. An older Clive Coffee video for a conical grinder (Macap?) notes bright flavors. Lance H. has noted "random" brightness in shots from conicals like Niche Z. that he says doesn't fit in the shot flavors (disharmony) and in one person's comparison video of Niche Zero to Cast burr the taster noted the Zero was dominant of green apple citrus flavor while the flat burr-Cast had some; more chocolate taste that was lacking from Niche but then so many YT vids point out body and dominant or prevailing chocolate notes from Niche Z. Even with light roasts so many says Niche-that type conical "pushes" flavor to chocolate. Seems the burr is biggest factor in sense people have to try a lot of different beans-roasts on flat burr and conical burr then discover for themselves then go and buy a better grinder that will last years and years versus going w/conventional wisdom. Old posts on H-B talk about great clarity from larger conicals like Robur or even that they 'eked' out great results when the Niche Zero was released. Maybe people just need to get better at 1:1 or lower dosing etc.. along with 1:2, 1:3 'turbo' to really get best result from any good grinder-burr. Regards
instructive
Could you please recommend one automatic grinder that will go from fine to consistent coarse for Chemex and V60.
Encores will do a good enough job and are well priced. The super expensive grinders are really for espresso.
QuickQuips thanks for the recommendation, heard lots of great reviews about it, Encore it is
I want a burr that’s quality and that will not “end up in my coffee” bit by bit.
I need grounds that are course for cold brew.
What is the best for this?
The encore will work well for ur application
Does burr grinder have higher rpm than flat?
Both the flat and the conicle are considered Burr grinders. Also, rpm entirely depends upon the manufacturer and motor they used.
Should spin faster as the cones look a little narrower.
KG89 with block burr,keep away from them.Doesn't give good consistency for espresso even with the mod.
I am anxiously seeking a burr grinder, but w unemployment, trying to find a decent but inexpensive one is challenging.
Any recommendations? I was thinking maybe..Mercari, or Amazon, but not sure..
Hand grinders! You can get some good results with those even for espresso.
@@BensCoffeeRants I ended up doing just that! Thanks.
This video is excellent. I filled the screen and let you explain and hope someday to get a good grinder.
I prefer Aaron Burrs
it might be some other factor but I feel like with conical (sette specifically) there is a tad less richness in my cup...I assume this is because there are less fines. Not a big deal...it depends on what you want...I can get a better range of milder notes from the sette so it seems to work better for lighter roasts but to me it seems like a less traditional shot in some ways...happy with both though.
"Cone-ical"
"Con-ical"
Come-ical.
Con-i-cal. Not cone-i-cal.
@1:22 ". . . more plainer" or ". . . more planer" or ". . . more planar"? More grammar?
"for espresso flat and conical produce good grind"... Yes but for Drip type coffee, the Conical burr is vastly superior to the flat burr.. that is just a fact.
then what will you say about Ode Grinder that uses Flat burr and is only dedicated to Drip type coffee !!!
So, it doesn't really matter...
Dont use block burrs.. copy that
👌🏾
Sooo… a useless video. There’s definitely flavor profile differences and other technical differences besides the general appearance of the burrs. What’s the point of this video if you don’t talk about those or give your opinion?