Atozuke and Furiten - Riichi Mahjong Guide
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- Опубліковано 29 сер 2024
- In this episode of Riichi Mahjong Guide, we discuss the concept of takame and yasume, as well as the rules about atozuke and furiten. Furiten basically prevents you from winning by ron if you passed up a winning tile, but you can still win by tsumo.
Feel free to leave any feedback or questions below.
Not only is this game incredibly complex in terms of what you have to know and what you have to keep track of for your own hand, but also in terms of what you have to keep track of for what other players are doing. I am really glad for software that helps you simplify some of those things for new players (right now I am playing on Clubhouse Games for the switch) and incredibly thankful for your videos to help cover for some of the complexity that they couldn’t possibly cover within the game itself.
I liked Clubhouse Games but the Mahjong could be better. Nobody plays it online. If you want to play against people for free then check out the MahjongSoul website or mobile app. It's anime themed but not so much that it gets in the way.
Seeing how this video has no comments I just want to thank you for making these videos! It helped me a lot!
Thanks, I finally understand Furiten. I kept getting it online and wasn't sure why (although, I ended up still winning by tsumo one of these times).
Thanks a lot man, never understood why the Furiten applied. It made it quite clear.
Thanks. I learned a lot from you.
Scenario: Player C in Tenpai, waiting for one or four bamboo (only Yaku is Tanyao). Player A discards one bamboo putting player C in temporary Furiten. Player B now discards four bamboo, on which player C may not Ron. Can player C now draw, discard and also declare Riichi? If answer is yes, may player now Ron a one or four bamboo from other players?
Yes to both, assuming player C's hand is closed.
My Japanese friend declared riichi, then realized he previously threw one of his two wait cards. Friend said it was a chumbo and he should pay a chumbo penalty because by declaring Riichi, he made opponents start discarding cards he already threw to play defensive. I said he did not chumbo , and though in furiten, could still go out by tsumo. Who was correct?
Secondly, my wife plays with women who have an instruction sheet that states when in furiten, you must announce you are in furiten verbally to opponents. Have you ever heard of this furiten declaration?
To answer your first question, you are correct. There are some rule sets that disallow furiten riichi or passing on a winning tile after riichi, but those are incredibly rare nowadays. In the vast majority of rule sets, you are absolutely allowed to riichi if you are furiten, it is not a chombo, and you do not have to announce it to the other players.
For your second question, I have never heard of a rule where you have to announce that you are furiten ever. If such a rule were to exist, it would be a house rule.
@@LightGrunty Thanks.
I swear I’ve been put in furiten when I didn’t discard anything I need to win on. (I play Doman Mahjong on FFXIV)
I find myself in Furiten a lot! I always see a winning hand and I’m like yessss! But then it’s forcing me to discard something and I realize I’m in furiten somehow
The likely explanation for that is that you don't have a yaku. Even if you're able to complete a winning hand shape, you still need at least one yaku to actually win the hand. It's easy to miss out on potential yaku when you call for chii or pon, so if you aren't sure, it's better not to steal other players' tiles so that you can declare riichi once you get to tenpai.
When you took the 1 man out of the discards to show that when you draw a 1 man you are in furiten, that's if there was a 1 man in the discards right?
Yes, if you draw discard the 1man there, then you would be furiten on the 1-4man ryanmen wait and cannot win by ron.
In practice, how do people enforce furiten? Do they examine your hand and discard and waits?
Yes, players are responsible for confirming that any winning hands are valid. That includes checking for furiten if the hand was won by ron.
May I know if I have 23456 man, and I have thrown out the 1 man before, that means I can’t Ron on the 1,4,7 man is it ?
Does furiten apply to multiple waits ?
Yes, if you have discarded any of your potential winning tiles, then you are furiten and cannot declare ron at all.
There’s still a couple things I’m unclear on regarding atozuke nashi rules (and I couldn’t find clear answers online):
1) Can an open atozuke hand still win by tsumo?
2) I heard that a hand where all the waits have a yaku, but nothing that applies to all of them (for example, 11456m456p55667s, where 4-sou has sanshoku and 7-sou has ippeikou) still counts as atozuke. Is that true? If it is, does it also apply to a shanpon wait on two different yakuhai, since those are technically different yaku?
The tricky thing about atozuke nashi rules is that they can vary quite a bit. Some variants are stricter than others, even going so far as to say that if you want to open your hand, your first call has to confirm or at least be related to your yaku. It's also rather rare nowadays, but I will attempt to answer your questions here.
1) If you're playing atozuke nashi, then you would have to have confirmed yaku before being able to win. If the hand is open and does not have confirmed yaku, then it you cannot win, even by tsumo.
2) This is true, though the example you provided has pinfu either way.
If you plan on playing atozuke nashi, you should consult whomever is running the game and see what the exact rules are so as to avoid any problems.
@@LightGrunty Thank you so much for answering so quickly! I probably won’t be playing atozuke nashi anytime soon, but it’s good to know just in case.
Friend ended draw game with a no yakuza's hand but was waiting to try and sumo, to attain her yaku. . Does friend get to claim 1000 point for being in tenpin at end of draw game?
Yes, for an exhaustive draw, as long as a player is tenpai, they earn the tenpai payments. They do not need to have yaku for this.
If being in tenpai (with open hand), two way wait of one and four bamboo, but only yaku is tanyao, refusing a one bamboo is not considered furiten, as there would be no yaku and thus was not a winning hand. There is no penalty for technically only waiting for the four bamboo. Am I correct? Also, if same hand, but closed and not riichi, declining a one bamboo has no restrictions, but declining a ron four bamboo puts you in permanent furiten. Is this also correct?
No, both of those are incorrect. Furiten does not consider whether or not you would have had yaku when you decline a winning tile. If the tile completes your final tenpai shape, but you decline to win on it for whatever reason, even if you couldn't win on it due to not having yaku, you would still be furiten.
@@LightGrunty Thanks for clarifications.
Today I declared riichi with a one card wait for a three bamboo. The player across from me threw a three bamboo, but I was distracted and missed it and did not call ron. The game proceeded. About three rounds later, same player threw another three bamboo and I called ron. Was this permissible, or was I in furiten and could only win by drawing a three bamboo myself? Thanks.
Because you declared riichi and did not win on the first possible winning tile after the riichi, you would be furiten for the rest of the hand. In the situation you described, you would be unable to declare ron and would only be able to win by tsumo.
3:29 So, drawing the shape of a winning hand regardless of the yaku of that hand puts you in permanent furiten?
Yes, whether or not your hand would have yaku does not matter for the purposes of furiten. Furiten only checks your final shape, regardless of yaku.
@@LightGrunty Is the furiten permanent though? When the hand was in furiten because it was waiting on a tile it had discarded, if the wait was changed it was no longer in furiten; if you discard a tile which completed the winning shape, does that mean no matter what you do you will be in furiten until the end of that round?
Furiten is only considered for your current wait. If you were furiten, but then change your wait, then whether or not you are furiten would depend on your new wait and if you've discarded a tile that would complete your new shape.
@@LightGrunty Thank you
Furiten seems like a pretty terrible rule designed to fuck you over because reasons.