The point of the first guy about divide is ridiculous. Crossbow/compound divide is 100x worse. He just wants to be able to run his business. Deer shouldn’t have 50$ cellular cameras littered in the woods taking their picture ever 100 yards.
Love you guys, but man I think cell cams are horrible. Especially on public land. Would like to see all cams banned on public, but cell cams at the very least.
@@thatguyfishingben4794 A lot of people think it's crossing the line of fair chase. Also people don't want to be under surveillance while walking around public land. When I see a bunch of them I feel like I'm trespassing when I'm not.
@gordonneverdies if people would use cell cameras one time they would see it doesn't change anytjing. If someone says they know exactly what time a deer comes through they are wrong and just trying to brag. I run 37 cameras in 7 states and evey year the bucks I kill I have very few pics of unless I get lucky and set one up close to where he sleeps. But most of the time i get 2 to 4 pics of a deer all season. That's just enough to let me know yup he is there now I need to find where he is sleeping and hanging out. It literally just lets me know im not wasteing my time. I still haveto do the hard work. Its not a cheat code to let me know exactly where i need to be. As far as not liking being under surveillance that's something that everyone should get over. Like many of the people in the video were saying you are literally being recorded the moment you step out of your house. Every store/gas station/restaurant records you. Basically anytjing you spend money at or go to for entertainment is recording you. %48 percent of cars have cameras in the front windshield and rear to record accidents. %74 of homes have some kind of security that records. It is what it is. I put a cam up and I get people on it I usually take them down and move em cause that's deff not the place to hunt and try to find the size of deer I'm after. But thats just me.
Wrong. People should not “get used to it”. There should be no cameras on public land. If you need to place cams to secure a kill, buy some property and have at it. BTW, it’s so weak to need cams to hunt.
I'm surprised nobody mentioned any Supreme Court case law. You have ZERO expectation of privacy while in public. And it has been that way forever. These are the same types of Karens that throw a fit when someone is filming on a public sidewalk. If you think being in PUBLIC and getting your photo taken is an invasion of privacy, you have bigger things to worry about. Also...if someone sees a camera and is then afraid to hunt an area on PUBLIC you're just a baby. I don't hunt where other dudes do on public but not because they have "claimed" a spot by sticking a camera there. A lot of you dudes needed to hunt ducks on public ground in the 90s when the season was 3/30 and you literally could not get in the door of a check station. Most of this is weak entitlement BS mentality.
Ban all cameras on public land. I shouldn't have to worry about being under surveillance 2 miles into the woods. Put in the work scouting like everyone else.
18:18 He's right but for the wrong reasons. If anything is going to cause this divide between the hunting community it's hunters who are constantly pushing technology to the point of affecting fair chase. Comparing compound bows to cell cams is a terrible argument. You still have to draw the bow in proximity of an animal. With cell cams you can run surveillance on an entire property and name all your target bucks while sitting on your couch. Come on dude.
What would happen if they took all the fish finders away from fishermen? Just because the graph see’s the fish doesn’t mean you are going to catch them. But you start to get a better understanding of where fish live and try pattern them. No different than trail camera’s,just because they are out there doesn’t mean a100% harvest. But like fish finders,just trying to see where they live and to get a pattern. Just my two cents!!
I just don’t understand the problem with them,I don’t feel they hold a spot. It’s public,if you scout a good spot hunt it even if there is a camera. And I know you don’t leave fish finders around any lake ,you take it to the 25 or 30 spots you go to that day.
If cameras are "marking territory" and we're going to reduce the use of technology (I use cells on public land in 3 states), then we should also eliminate leaving treestands and blinds and no deer drives on public lands. I see way more tree stands and blinds on public that get put out, pushing good hunters away from those areas, and many of them get left there year to year.
Question: can the industry put a delay on cell phones sending pics? Big cripe I hear is people going to their spot when they get a pic of a deer in that area. Personally, I don't care. It's just an idea.
Too be honest there's a part of me that would be for banning that stuff. There's so many people that use them in attempt to claim huge portions of public land as their own. In wv and Ohio portions of public land are becoming borderline too dangerous to even hunt in some areas. You'll have 100 acres with literally 50 or more people on it
@@tedphillips5386 no, im saying ladder stands belong on private land only and TBH unless youre a child or a complete novice, you should really graduate to a saddle, lightweight hang-on, climber or some type of mobile set up. You cant claim spots on land you dont own and leaving anything in the woods is littering.
@@franklinfx what you’re saying is simply not true, I use a self climber, but I know many of hunters who are neither children, or a complete novice who use ladders on state land. They aren’t claiming spots as their own, and legally anybody could hunt the ladder stands they put out. Not everybody has private land to hunt,to keep a ladder stand on! You also have a false understanding of what littering is, or you are mis understanding what the majority of respectful hunters do, which is set a ladder up on state land a month or so before the season, and remove it at the end of the season. Where is the harm in this?
Interesting that bait states are the first to tackle this issue. I'm not hearing anything about fair chase as a reason to ban cell cameras. I started hunting when the compound bow was in its infancy. Fast forward 50 years. Horizontal bows with cables, pulley mechanisms, scopes triggers. Mechanical broadheads on lighter flat shooting arrows. It's no longer primitive season. Now technology has the game under constant surveillance. All this bullshit needs to end. Or The evolution of deer hunting will be anything to shortcut sportsmanship in order to help those who need it to kill a deer and post their accomplishments on social media to receive their accolades. Signed Trad hunter who accepts the challenge of technology limited pursuit. Why? Success is much more rewarding . Fair chase has no exceptions
Compound bows are fine. You still have to draw the bow in close proximity to the animal. That's the main reason I want crossbows to be illegal during archery season.
I don't think compound bows are comparable to cell cams and drones. You still have to draw in close proximity to the animal. With the cams you can surveil your property and name your target bucks from the couch.
If you pay attention to this country trying to dictate how others spend their personal time has become a passion for Americans in nearly all facets of life. It's no surprise to me that the hunting world as a whole is following the same path.
90 cameras in 5 states, that’s cheating the system, weekend warriors don’t have a chance. Miss the old days of just going out not knowing what there until you see it. Same with electronics and fishing.
Ky will ban blinds and treesrands next lol.them cameras aint hurting a damn thing.i see them all the time where i hunt they aint never bothered me or kept me from hunting a certain spot.its public land,your more then welcome to put up your camera but im also allowed to hunt anywhere i want on public land.no harm no foul.
90 cameras across multiple states? Really? I hunt multiple states in the Midwest and have been for many years and I have never once put a camera of any kind on a tree. Your guest is throwing around a lot of shade and a lot of BS. Jake I understand your angle because you’re in the business to sell cameras, but your first guest probably needs to loose his camera addiction and get back to the basics.
What's hurting Kentucky is a two week gun season and having it during the same period as the rut. If you want to make a significant change in Kentucky, make gun season one week and move gun season after Thanksgiving like Ohio. That would change the dynamics of having more bucks and allowing bucks to breed more does.
Used to be the locals were your competition on public land. Now it’s guys from all over the state and hell, in some places all over the country. This is the problem, if hunters actually have one. I think the bigger issue with cell cams is that law enforcement doesn’t want them out there impeding their ability to navigate without detection. They are probably tired of getting calls about stolen or vandalized cams also. Rule should be no bait, no stands or blinds left behind and no cameras on public land. It is there for everyone’s use and enjoyment. These things should all be considered litter and removed/people fined just like they dumped trash.
As a KY resident deer hunter of 50 plus years with most of it on public land. I disagree in any thing that takes our hunter rights away on public lands. Examples: long bows, compound bows, cross bows, muzzleloader, firearms, airguns or any leagle methods! Cell cameras or SD cameras has no effect on game that's being hunted. People think it's a unfair adavange BUT IT IS NOT!!! The cameras are tools that are used to see wildlife in their natural habitat. All hunters should stick togather, reguardless of type of hunting done to protect our hunting rights!!!!
90 camera's ??????????? even at the current prices i cant afford TWO, i dont even want this guy hunting the same woods as me, Dude, i know you said your not using 90 cameras in an area but your over kill and getting away from fair chase toooo much. 20 cameras in each of three states, dang dude. Not fair to the other hunters in that woods.
Happy to see this gaining momentum....I would like Michigan to do the same but add all cameras to the list..... Mostly I would like to see the drone issues taken into HEAVY consideration.... It really pisses me off when I'm tracking/still hunting and hear the sound of a swarm of " bees" zoom by our hover over me location....I guess #4 bird shot will fix that SITUATION.... Because then I would be able to at least find the operator and have them charged for hunter harassment because I would wait for the operator to come out and recover their toy... I'm totally willing to pay for the damages because I've have 26 hunts in totally different locations just this year trashed because some idiot wants to follow the deer trails with a drone and then when they see me possibly from all the cell cameras I stumble across during my hunt they think it's funny to play games or try and change my mind about hunting " their' location.
@@thepressurepack3777 no… he said they should move crossbow hunting to December. Which means the majority of crippling won’t happen until after “real” bow season.
I'm glad to see at least one game commission having this debate, especially around the question of fair chase. This is where cell cameras in particular begin to cross a line IMO because of the potential for abuse. For example I've seen videos where a target buck shows up on a cell camera at a particular spot enabling the hunter to dash out from wherever they are and get in position to inter ept the animal. It's the same reason Alaska doesn't allow hunters to shoot big game on the same day they fly into an area, and why many states have already banned or are considering banning the use of drones to assist in finding game. There's just too much potential for abuse.
The lack of pressure the first guy says he is seeing from people and cameras is almost unfathomable to me. I have seen more cameras on one piece than he’s seen all year hunting across the whole countryside. I agree with him some parcels much worse than others but his numbers were almost unbelievable.
He has no pressure because he has 6 cameras on every piece. Duh he isn’t seeing anyone, who else is gonna walk past several cameras to hunt? I wish people would quit acting like they don’t get bummed when the stumble on a cell cam.
I run cameras because I have to work for a living. I don’t get much opportunity to hunt. Having cameras help a working man out. The check drawers and people that don’t work crying about it
I work, I work a blue collar construction job for over 20 years. Have the money to buy cameras if I wanted, but I don't run cameras. Run them on your land. Other option is to not be so greedy after the Almighty dollar and work less. Yeah that last sentence made as much sense as your comment
Get off your couch and scout.you can't use I work for a excuse.i work a busy schedule but I scout year around for my bucks.just a damm lazy ass excuse.you and others are what's wrong with hunting.
LOL- 90 cameras =what the hell drives someone to burn up that kind of money and time with cameras=what happened to real hunters, tracks,trails,sightings etc= pure woodsmanship
I run a decent amount of cameras on private. If somebody’s running double digit cameras and they’re not helping they’re doing it wrong; that pile of cams is a bunch of bucks you would never have known existed. And if the cams don’t help that much it’s no big deal if they’re gone. There’s no right answer here, no god given right, just preferences. As an extreme example a rich fella could pay staff to go set 50 cell cams on public. Cover your private land, get coverage over on public, hunt what’s hot. I love the exodus crew but if a state decides to ban cell or all cams on public… I get it.
What I don't understand is why people think cell cameras are what's hurting. You'll put less pressure on the animals and you still gotta have woodsmanship skills. A camera isn't a magical item that'll make sure you kill the animal, you have to have skill. Interesting topic for sure but I'd definitely say there should be a divide between public and private on any of these regulations that may/ have happen.
do you think if you hang a camera that you claim that area? If you walk in and see cameras, do you still hunt near them? waaaay too many cameras and treestands are on public
@triplextrhreat3 it's public no one gets any of it to themselves lol and just because a camera is there doesn't mean I won't hunt it. Depends on the location 🤷
Someone tried to tell me I couldn't run my cameras on private they can get f'd. As far as running into someone's gear on public, it's first come first serve on a daily basis. Say hello to the camera and get to hunting. If anything you're gonna run the guy with the cell cams out if he keeps getting pics of you.
These guys hit on my exact negatives of trail cameras. In my area some guys are setting upwards of 70 cameras and when you combine other hunter's It's fcking unacceptable and totally ridiculous. You literally can't piss or walk without being under surveillance. It's should be stopped or at least be Heavily monitored.
The issue isn't too many cameras - its too many people. Tough to go somewhere you don't see other hunters for a day, and if you do you get back to your truck to find the tires flat or mirror busted off the side.
Only reason there are so many people, is because technology has made it so easy. If you had to spend 40 days driving and scouting to find a 3 or 4 year old deer...97% of hunters would stop hunting.
Jake is spot on with the use of app’s. Todays hunters are undoubtedly more advanced then ever before.. where does the line get drawn in the sand or does it. I think we can all agree woodsman-ship skills are decreasing in hunters due to the availability of technology.
Jake Bush, your comment on wanting to get back to basics and hunt without all the gadgets completely contradicts your opinion on the use of cell cameras! Getting away from using cameras will 100% make you a better hunter!
The question isn't are there too many in the woods? Are cell cams making people better hunters? Etc. The question that people seem to be dancing around and not addressing is, are cell cameras crossing an ethical line? Is it fair for the animal to be surveillanced and known in real time when you are not there? Also the comparison between using a cell camera and using a compound bow is not the best comparison. You can use a cell camera while at home to understand what deer are doing in real time. Not with a compound.
Cell cameras kill more, bigger and smarter deer period. They’re a motionless, scentless, infra red activated computer that’s on deck 24/7/365, even from a state away. They’re also the first piece of hunting equipment ever that is fully operational in the hunters absence, and what they fulfill represents the lions share of the hunting experience, scouting. With just under 40 years deer hunting experience, I’m saddened to hear these two ?pro? Hunters state that without the ability to process data from cameras, they’d likely shoot the first good deer that walked by. That is hands down proof of the modern hunters reliance on tech and their lack of determination to rely on what has historically been the foundation of hunting, woodsmanship.
@@joenicmck hunting, public land or not, is never an even playing field…. Nothing in life is. The guy who can scout/hunt 5 days a week will absolutely have a more successful season than the guy who can only hunt on a Saturday and half a Sunday. The guy who can buy multiple stand/stick setups has a leg up. The guy who is in better physical shape has a leg up. The guy who can hunt weekdays as opposed to weekends has a leg up. The guy who lives 3 miles down the road has a leg up compared to the guy who drives an hour and a half. “Evening the playing field” isn’t possible. And it DANG sure isn’t the governments place.
Holy crap! This guy is complaining about a 3-week rifle season in Kentucky and saying that it is an impediment to deer management. By the way, depending on the timing, I'm not disagreeing but in North Carolina our Eastern counties allow over 90 days of firearms hunting. You want to see a screwed up age structure come on!
They need to be banned in every state during the season. They are the most detrimental thing to happen that completely undermines conservation. Just like the Live Scope the fisherman use. I’ve seen hunting shows where the hunter gets out of the tree and goes across the farm on his electric buggy/bike then kills the deer. I have friends that will sit in their truck waiting to see if the deer show up to their corn pile.
I’m indifferent about this. I am more concerned with people leaving stands, blinds etc on public land. I wish had all the time in the world to scout and use cameras but I don’t. If I see a camera it doesn’t deter me it just affirms I’m in the right spot.
Cameras take away the challenge. Now the challenge is finding a deer that survives and isn't dead because someone else knew it was there from using a camera. I want the challenge to be because of fair chase and not because there are no big deer making it through each year. Cameras lower the hubting quality on WMAs a lot.
So many issues surrounding technology that is rapidly evolving regarding trail cameras and drones. When I first started seeing this technology, it seemed to be an incredible way to scout large areas very quickly (pre-season), recover game with a poor blood trail, etc. Here is a couple of takes on all of it. One, regarding drones, there is no way to separate recovery of a carcass from hunting of the animal and here is why. While you are searching for a wounded animal, you are also encountering other animals, other deer, other trophy bucks, SO, during the process of searching for a carcass, there is no way to separate the SCOUTING OTHER BUCKS during this search process. Also, if you find the targeted wounded animal and it is not dead, you are automatically back in scouting mode for that particular animal. Secondly, this technology not only involves real time surveillance of wildlife, but it also involves real time surveillance of PEOPLE using public property. I think anyone using public property has the right to NOT BE SPIED UPON or WATCHED using these devices regardless of what activity they are engaged in. Some will say, "Well if you are not doing anything wrong, you should not be concerned about being watched..." There was another guy that said that. His name was Adolf Hitler. The best way to look at this is, what if YOU are the person being watched by this technology. What if YOU are fishing, or sitting in a tree stand, or still hunting, and one of these devices is being used or deployed in YOUR area looking at YOU, your location, where your vehicle is parked, where your tree stand is located, where the deer are around you, when you are there and when you are NOT there. Are you gonna tell me, YOU are ok with it?
One argument being made is people feel like others are staking a claim to a specific by using cell cameras or cameras, what about leaving tree stands on public? Should they ban the leaving of tree stands? If not how can others make the argument that cameras prevent them from hunting a specific area?
I agree totally about hunters leaving tree stands on public land can be implied at staking your claim to that area. Of course most courteous hunters won't hunt that area if there is a tree stand there, but technically someone can put their climber up 100 yards away from that ladder stand if they are in that area first.
Not a fan of technology that enables hunters to plan their hunt without putting in time in the woods. The search for antlers seems to know no bounds. Cameras provide an unfair advantage and take the uncertainty of a big rub out of the equation. Get them off public lands...all of them.
Arizona banned all cameras, as much as i dont like it, i would rather have the game less pressured and it keeps the pro hunter/outfitter at bay. Fair chase needs to be re-evaluated as the technology is bridging that gap. Guys like this with 90 cameras is ridiculous and the reason there are these issues.
Here is a video that explains in a little more detail why trail cameras should be banned on public land. ua-cam.com/video/UQuO47uTR24/v-deo.htmlsi=makBmuNKsBjugyeE
This is ridiculous. We're really worried about overcrowding while hunter numbers are declining and nowhere close to what they used to be? And while we have a growing minority of people ethically against hunting that will soon outnumber us? No hunter should be advocating for any statewide or national legislation that takes away hunting privileges for the reasons Jake pointed out. Make WMA specific restrictions if necessary, but don't make it easy for our opponents.
This is overreach in a government agency. Trail cameras have been used for years on public and private lands. Just because they are cellular now should have no bearing on outlawing them. This is someone's personal disdain for cameras and has no legal argument for banning them. Whatever Kentucky, you probably should be more focused on the drug epidemic in your state.
You know what he said? He just won't give Kentucky his money anymore. Okay, so now Kentucky loses all that money gas food lodging. More hunting gear license tags processing. So now Kentucky is lost money now that game warden. It keeps going, they kentucky can't pay for that land so now they're gonna have to sail the land so yeah, the bowl rolls down hill, buddy, you take it away, you lose everything
They are already banned by Fair chase rules when they are used to assist a hunter in choosing the right tree stand. And the cell cameras SHOULD be banned for that reason. So should drones. They are NOT fair chase. The only people wanting to keep them legal are the ones trying to make a profit. GREED!!!!!
The same clowns that bitch about crossbows and the fact that hunting is too expensive now are using cell cams and couple thousand dollar 80 yard accurate compounds. Until you start reading sign the old fashioned way and carry a longbow or recurve you should just all keep quiet. Ted will be a great leader!
Here in WV it is something that people do, they will put cheap trail cams everywhere and treestands every 50 yards... trying to claim huge areas of public land as their own. Hunter numbers are on a steady incline while huntable land, public and private, declines every year.
The argument against cell cameras are weak. If you think they mark territory then you also hsve to ban leaving any equipment on public land. A tree stand marks expectation of territory more than a camera. This discussion is specifically about cell cameras not all cameras. Non cell cameras require the individual to come to the camera and as a result they disrupt the environment for everyone more. As far as fair chase the issue is if someone uses them to track movement while hunting to be alerted of sn incoming deer. Most cell cameras are where the individual is actually hunting not somewhere else. So it all comes down to "I don't do it so no one else should" irrationality. Got to think what these people think when they get to an unmarked spot and someone is hunting it just like someone going to their stand and finding someone in the next tree over having gotten there before them. I mean, their stand is in the tree and they have no options otherwise 😂
My problem is DNR use them to catch solving a case ,or catching a poacher so what's the difference is a hunter using it to close the deal on a deer or elk!!! Here we are letting gov. Official regulate how we hunt!!!!
there is no issue that's why it appeared out of the blue like the one commissioner said. this is probably being driven by one or two individuals that had their elk hunt influenced by a cell cam, so they think, and those people just happen to very wealthy or has tenure/employed by the government.
The problem is not cell cams or even regular cams its the social media, the last guy on your podcast is proof. He has to get pictures and post them on every platform for all to see. We've hunted same public as him for years before he showed up and had no issues with over crowding but like he said this year was worse we every seen for out of state presure
Let’s take away things that may get more hunters in the woods and draw lines among hunters .. no wonder there are less hunters in the younger generations. I’m 45 and sick of seeing hunters argue over bow type and bait. Everyone just hunt how you want within the laws and to each his own.
No cameras but using a crossbow with a magnified scope during archery season is ok. Since its so ridiculous im sure they'll paas it. Im sure Indiana will as soon as they get the idea.
Hunters like me try to stay away from cameras when they are spoted ahead of time. Saying that you don't see many Hunters on camera doesn't mean they are not there. And for a hunter not to see that many cameras means we all see and hunt different areas. Or we are not looking for cameras we are looking for deer.
Its not about the cameras. It's about the unfair hunting practice. When u can tell what part of property dr is in and rush out to kill it ain't f😢air chase.
I've used traditional methods for finding game it's going and sitting and watching that's fun to me and exercise I think the cameras are for the lazy or to busy to hunt,,ppl that just put up camera leave wait for the pic on the phone run in and shoot that's not hunting 😊
The point of the first guy about divide is ridiculous. Crossbow/compound divide is 100x worse. He just wants to be able to run his business.
Deer shouldn’t have 50$ cellular cameras littered in the woods taking their picture ever 100 yards.
I honestly think if cameras are unsporting for public land than they shouldn't be allowed anywhere. Fair chase is fair chase.
Yes, let's let government choose even more what you can and can't do on your own land.
Love you guys, but man I think cell cams are horrible. Especially on public land. Would like to see all cams banned on public, but cell cams at the very least.
Why are they horrible?
@@thatguyfishingben4794 A lot of people think it's crossing the line of fair chase. Also people don't want to be under surveillance while walking around public land. When I see a bunch of them I feel like I'm trespassing when I'm not.
@gordonneverdies if people would use cell cameras one time they would see it doesn't change anytjing. If someone says they know exactly what time a deer comes through they are wrong and just trying to brag. I run 37 cameras in 7 states and evey year the bucks I kill I have very few pics of unless I get lucky and set one up close to where he sleeps. But most of the time i get 2 to 4 pics of a deer all season. That's just enough to let me know yup he is there now I need to find where he is sleeping and hanging out. It literally just lets me know im not wasteing my time. I still haveto do the hard work. Its not a cheat code to let me know exactly where i need to be. As far as not liking being under surveillance that's something that everyone should get over. Like many of the people in the video were saying you are literally being recorded the moment you step out of your house. Every store/gas station/restaurant records you. Basically anytjing you spend money at or go to for entertainment is recording you. %48 percent of cars have cameras in the front windshield and rear to record accidents. %74 of homes have some kind of security that records. It is what it is. I put a cam up and I get people on it I usually take them down and move em cause that's deff not the place to hunt and try to find the size of deer I'm after. But thats just me.
Wrong. People should not “get used to it”. There should be no cameras on public land. If you need to place cams to secure a kill, buy some property and have at it. BTW, it’s so weak to need cams to hunt.
I'm surprised nobody mentioned any Supreme Court case law. You have ZERO expectation of privacy while in public. And it has been that way forever. These are the same types of Karens that throw a fit when someone is filming on a public sidewalk. If you think being in PUBLIC and getting your photo taken is an invasion of privacy, you have bigger things to worry about. Also...if someone sees a camera and is then afraid to hunt an area on PUBLIC you're just a baby. I don't hunt where other dudes do on public but not because they have "claimed" a spot by sticking a camera there. A lot of you dudes needed to hunt ducks on public ground in the 90s when the season was 3/30 and you literally could not get in the door of a check station. Most of this is weak entitlement BS mentality.
Ban all cameras on public land. I shouldn't have to worry about being under surveillance 2 miles into the woods. Put in the work scouting like everyone else.
18:18 He's right but for the wrong reasons. If anything is going to cause this divide between the hunting community it's hunters who are constantly pushing technology to the point of affecting fair chase. Comparing compound bows to cell cams is a terrible argument. You still have to draw the bow in proximity of an animal. With cell cams you can run surveillance on an entire property and name all your target bucks while sitting on your couch. Come on dude.
Good deal
What would happen if they took all the fish finders away from fishermen? Just because the graph see’s the fish doesn’t mean you are going to catch them. But you start to get a better understanding of where fish live and try pattern them. No different than trail camera’s,just because they are out there doesn’t mean a100% harvest. But like fish finders,just trying to see where they live and to get a pattern. Just my two cents!!
I think some of those new forward imaging units are starting to push the limit.
You dont leave fish finders in the lake do you? Its about taking your crap out of the woods with you
We don't leave fish finders in the water
Fish finders DON'T hold your fishing spot when you not fishing and you don't use 50 of them to fish a pound
I just don’t understand the problem with them,I don’t feel they hold a spot. It’s public,if you scout a good spot hunt it even if there is a camera. And I know you don’t leave fish finders around any lake ,you take it to the 25 or 30 spots you go to that day.
I run 90 cameras but it’s not helping me hunt give me a fucking break
If cameras are "marking territory" and we're going to reduce the use of technology (I use cells on public land in 3 states), then we should also eliminate leaving treestands and blinds and no deer drives on public lands.
I see way more tree stands and blinds on public that get put out, pushing good hunters away from those areas, and many of them get left there year to year.
Yep, starting with cameras hopefully, ya already can only leave a stand up for a week here. People leave these cell cams out for years man.
Would love to see zero trail cameras on public land. Its just unnecessary and clutters up the woods. Pack it in, pack it out.
Same should go for tree stands as well then.
Ban um all. Consider them unfair chase. Lots of people out there would not b a hunter w/out them.
Question: can the industry put a delay on cell phones sending pics? Big cripe I hear is people going to their spot when they get a pic of a deer in that area. Personally, I don't care. It's just an idea.
Lots of people wouldn't be hunters if they couldn't use a rifle sitting 200 yards from a food source. Ban rifles!!!
Too be honest there's a part of me that would be for banning that stuff. There's so many people that use them in attempt to claim huge portions of public land as their own. In wv and Ohio portions of public land are becoming borderline too dangerous to even hunt in some areas. You'll have 100 acres with literally 50 or more people on it
Go kentucky! been saying that for years...nothing should be left out on public land
Ladder stands?
@@tedphillips5386 any treestand and especially ladder stands! Pack it in pack it out...its public not private
So before,and after every hunt you are suggesting breaking down a ladder stand instead of leaving it out during hunting season?
@@tedphillips5386 no, im saying ladder stands belong on private land only and TBH unless youre a child or a complete novice, you should really graduate to a saddle, lightweight hang-on, climber or some type of mobile set up. You cant claim spots on land you dont own and leaving anything in the woods is littering.
@@franklinfx what you’re saying is simply not true, I use a self climber, but I know many of hunters who are neither children, or a complete novice who use ladders on state land. They aren’t claiming spots as their own, and legally anybody could hunt the ladder stands they put out. Not everybody has private land to hunt,to keep a ladder stand on! You also have a false understanding of what littering is, or you are mis understanding what the majority of respectful hunters do, which is set a ladder up on state land a month or so before the season, and remove it at the end of the season. Where is the harm in this?
Interesting that bait states are the first to tackle this issue. I'm not hearing anything about fair chase as a reason to ban cell cameras.
I started hunting when the compound bow was in its infancy.
Fast forward 50 years.
Horizontal bows with cables, pulley mechanisms, scopes triggers. Mechanical broadheads on lighter flat shooting arrows.
It's no longer primitive season.
Now technology has the game under constant surveillance.
All this bullshit needs to end.
Or
The evolution of deer hunting will be anything to shortcut sportsmanship in order to help those who need it to kill a deer and post their accomplishments on social media to receive their accolades.
Signed
Trad hunter who accepts the challenge of technology limited pursuit. Why?
Success is much more rewarding .
Fair chase has no exceptions
Compound bows are fine. You still have to draw the bow in close proximity to the animal. That's the main reason I want crossbows to be illegal during archery season.
I don't think compound bows are comparable to cell cams and drones. You still have to draw in close proximity to the animal. With the cams you can surveil your property and name your target bucks from the couch.
i @@gordonneverdies I would bet 1000 $s that you use compound and cams
@@rogerdraper71 Well my bow is a solo cam so, I guess you win 500!
If you pay attention to this country trying to dictate how others spend their personal time has become a passion for Americans in nearly all facets of life. It's no surprise to me that the hunting world as a whole is following the same path.
90 cameras in 5 states, that’s cheating the system, weekend warriors don’t have a chance. Miss the old days of just going out not knowing what there until you see it. Same with electronics and fishing.
Cheating and it's like leaving trash in the woods!
How do you even keep up with that many cameras?
I have no issues with trail cams on private land, if you want to use them fine. But on public land they should be banned.
Ky will ban blinds and treesrands next lol.them cameras aint hurting a damn thing.i see them all the time where i hunt they aint never bothered me or kept me from hunting a certain spot.its public land,your more then welcome to put up your camera but im also allowed to hunt anywhere i want on public land.no harm no foul.
90 cameras in 5 states. "Heritage" "Tradition"....
Cell cameras should be banned in every state
I have 15 cell cameras and I support them being banned 100% and drones as well. It’s getting ridiculous
90 cameras across multiple states? Really? I hunt multiple states in the Midwest and have been for many years and I have never once put a camera of any kind on a tree. Your guest is throwing around a lot of shade and a lot of BS. Jake I understand your angle because you’re in the business to sell cameras, but your first guest probably needs to loose his camera addiction and get back to the basics.
What's hurting Kentucky is a two week gun season and having it during the same period as the rut. If you want to make a significant change in Kentucky, make gun season one week and move gun season after Thanksgiving like Ohio. That would change the dynamics of having more bucks and allowing bucks to breed more does.
Used to be the locals were your competition on public land. Now it’s guys from all over the state and hell, in some places all over the country. This is the problem, if hunters actually have one. I think the bigger issue with cell cams is that law enforcement doesn’t want them out there impeding their ability to navigate without detection. They are probably tired of getting calls about stolen or vandalized cams also. Rule should be no bait, no stands or blinds left behind and no cameras on public land. It is there for everyone’s use and enjoyment. These things should all be considered litter and removed/people fined just like they dumped trash.
As a KY resident deer hunter of 50 plus years with most of it on public land. I disagree in any thing that takes our hunter rights away on public lands. Examples: long bows, compound bows, cross bows, muzzleloader, firearms, airguns or any leagle methods! Cell cameras or SD cameras has no effect on game that's being hunted. People think it's a unfair adavange BUT IT IS NOT!!! The cameras are tools that are used to see wildlife in their natural habitat. All hunters should stick togather, reguardless of type of hunting done to protect our hunting rights!!!!
I agree! Watch out what you wish for when it comes to restrictions!.. one thing leads to another.
Pack it in pack it out!!
Definitely needs to be illegal because of fair chase actually goes out the window.
If you ban anything you don't believe in a free country. How about this, if you don't like cameras don't use them. Don't dictate my movements
90 camera's ??????????? even at the current prices i cant afford TWO, i dont even want this guy hunting the same woods as me, Dude, i know you said your not using 90 cameras in an area but your over kill and getting away from fair chase toooo much. 20 cameras in each of three states, dang dude. Not fair to the other hunters in that woods.
Happy to see this gaining momentum....I would like Michigan to do the same but add all cameras to the list..... Mostly I would like to see the drone issues taken into HEAVY consideration.... It really pisses me off when I'm tracking/still hunting and hear the sound of a swarm of " bees" zoom by our hover over me location....I guess #4 bird shot will fix that SITUATION.... Because then I would be able to at least find the operator and have them charged for hunter harassment because I would wait for the operator to come out and recover their toy... I'm totally willing to pay for the damages because I've have 26 hunts in totally different locations just this year trashed because some idiot wants to follow the deer trails with a drone and then when they see me possibly from all the cell cameras I stumble across during my hunt they think it's funny to play games or try and change my mind about hunting " their' location.
I’ll take thing that never happened for 1000 Alex
@@WMBCS I've got videos of every thing, sent it to the DNR and they are looking into it.
In my state the wildlife officers use drones to catch people doing things labeled illegal.
Can't use drones in Michigan for retrieving game. Set your cell cam up and catch violators.
I caught one this year.
@@nemideergoon1844 I bet your local wildlife officials are using them to catch people. If not now in the near future.
Kentucky needs to move firearms and crossbows to December, and ban baiting. That would fix deer hunting in KY.
And let bow hunters, wound all the deer ? 🤣
@@thepressurepack3777 no… he said they should move crossbow hunting to December. Which means the majority of crippling won’t happen until after “real” bow season.
PA needs to do the same.
Real bow hunters practice their craft. I shoot all year which creates muscle memory.
One 9 point and one mature doe never stood a chance this year.
Oh... the elite "bow" hunters trying to feel special again. 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
I'm glad to see at least one game commission having this debate, especially around the question of fair chase. This is where cell cameras in particular begin to cross a line IMO because of the potential for abuse. For example I've seen videos where a target buck shows up on a cell camera at a particular spot enabling the hunter to dash out from wherever they are and get in position to inter ept the animal. It's the same reason Alaska doesn't allow hunters to shoot big game on the same day they fly into an area, and why many states have already banned or are considering banning the use of drones to assist in finding game. There's just too much potential for abuse.
Kansas has banned them on public lands.
The lack of pressure the first guy says he is seeing from people and cameras is almost unfathomable to me. I have seen more cameras on one piece than he’s seen all year hunting across the whole countryside. I agree with him some parcels much worse than others but his numbers were almost unbelievable.
it meets his agenda
He has no pressure because he has 6 cameras on every piece. Duh he isn’t seeing anyone, who else is gonna walk past several cameras to hunt? I wish people would quit acting like they don’t get bummed when the stumble on a cell cam.
exactly why it's ridiculous to make a statewide ban
I run cameras because I have to work for a living. I don’t get much opportunity to hunt. Having cameras help a working man out. The check drawers and people that don’t work crying about it
I work, I work a blue collar construction job for over 20 years. Have the money to buy cameras if I wanted, but I don't run cameras.
Run them on your land.
Other option is to not be so greedy after the Almighty dollar and work less. Yeah that last sentence made as much sense as your comment
Get off your couch and scout.you can't use I work for a excuse.i work a busy schedule but I scout year around for my bucks.just a damm lazy ass excuse.you and others are what's wrong with hunting.
This guy is talking completely out of selfishness.
LOL- 90 cameras =what the hell drives someone to burn up that kind of money and time with cameras=what happened to real hunters, tracks,trails,sightings etc= pure woodsmanship
I run a decent amount of cameras on private. If somebody’s running double digit cameras and they’re not helping they’re doing it wrong; that pile of cams is a bunch of bucks you would never have known existed. And if the cams don’t help that much it’s no big deal if they’re gone. There’s no right answer here, no god given right, just preferences. As an extreme example a rich fella could pay staff to go set 50 cell cams on public. Cover your private land, get coverage over on public, hunt what’s hot. I love the exodus crew but if a state decides to ban cell or all cams on public… I get it.
Yes!!! Ban them all
I love when any government tells me what to do. It’s worked out thus far
I support banning cameras on public land
Love the concept of starting more primitive seasons early and slowly allowing more and more advanced weapons. Wish that was standard practice.
What I don't understand is why people think cell cameras are what's hurting. You'll put less pressure on the animals and you still gotta have woodsmanship skills. A camera isn't a magical item that'll make sure you kill the animal, you have to have skill. Interesting topic for sure but I'd definitely say there should be a divide between public and private on any of these regulations that may/ have happen.
do you think if you hang a camera that you claim that area? If you walk in and see cameras, do you still hunt near them? waaaay too many cameras and treestands are on public
@triplextrhreat3 it's public no one gets any of it to themselves lol and just because a camera is there doesn't mean I won't hunt it. Depends on the location 🤷
Someone tried to tell me I couldn't run my cameras on private they can get f'd. As far as running into someone's gear on public, it's first come first serve on a daily basis. Say hello to the camera and get to hunting. If anything you're gonna run the guy with the cell cams out if he keeps getting pics of you.
These guys hit on my exact negatives of trail cameras. In my area some guys are setting upwards of 70 cameras and when you combine other hunter's It's fcking unacceptable and totally ridiculous. You literally can't piss or walk without being under surveillance. It's should be stopped or at least be Heavily monitored.
The issue isn't too many cameras - its too many people.
Tough to go somewhere you don't see other hunters for a day, and if you do you get back to your truck to find the tires flat or mirror busted off the side.
Only reason there are so many people, is because technology has made it so easy. If you had to spend 40 days driving and scouting to find a 3 or 4 year old deer...97% of hunters would stop hunting.
@@lukevanlanen8828 between the gas prices and forced EV adoption that may get better!
It’s a slippery slope.
Jake is spot on with the use of app’s.
Todays hunters are undoubtedly more advanced then ever before..
where does the line get drawn in the sand or does it.
I think we can all agree woodsman-ship skills are decreasing in hunters due to the availability of technology.
Ban baiting. Ban all cameras. All night vision also get rid of the fiberglass deer blinds. Put the advantange back in the wildlife
It's like this, if you want to go back to, what you call Roots, then do it. Dividing season is stupid. That ls my opinion.
I totally agree that the progression of seasons should begin with traditional archery, then compounds, and then crossbows. Great idea Jake!
Jake Bush, your comment on wanting to get back to basics and hunt without all the gadgets completely contradicts your opinion on the use of cell cameras! Getting away from using cameras will 100% make you a better hunter!
Ban baby ban..
The question isn't are there too many in the woods? Are cell cams making people better hunters? Etc. The question that people seem to be dancing around and not addressing is, are cell cameras crossing an ethical line? Is it fair for the animal to be surveillanced and known in real time when you are not there?
Also the comparison between using a cell camera and using a compound bow is not the best comparison. You can use a cell camera while at home to understand what deer are doing in real time. Not with a compound.
Cell cameras kill more, bigger and smarter deer period. They’re a motionless, scentless, infra red activated computer that’s on deck 24/7/365, even from a state away. They’re also the first piece of hunting equipment ever that is fully operational in the hunters absence, and what they fulfill represents the lions share of the hunting experience, scouting. With just under 40 years deer hunting experience, I’m saddened to hear these two ?pro? Hunters state that without the ability to process data from cameras, they’d likely shoot the first good deer that walked by. That is hands down proof of the modern hunters reliance on tech and their lack of determination to rely on what has historically been the foundation of hunting, woodsmanship.
Ban them all
They need to ban cameras all together.
You say ban them but what's your reason why?
@@jessenoble1399he doesn’t like that other people are better at utilizing them than he is.
Hahah yeah
At least on public land. public land should be an even playing field. Not whoever can buy the most cameras.
@@joenicmck hunting, public land or not, is never an even playing field…. Nothing in life is. The guy who can scout/hunt 5 days a week will absolutely have a more successful season than the guy who can only hunt on a Saturday and half a Sunday. The guy who can buy multiple stand/stick setups has a leg up. The guy who is in better physical shape has a leg up. The guy who can hunt weekdays as opposed to weekends has a leg up. The guy who lives 3 miles down the road has a leg up compared to the guy who drives an hour and a half. “Evening the playing field” isn’t possible. And it DANG sure isn’t the governments place.
Why single out public land? I'm 100% against a ban.
it's called jealousy. hunters are jealous of other hunters
No doubt technology has made people more efficient whether it be podcasts, mapping apps or cameras. I’m not sure you can police it.
Hunting Karens.
Banning or even limiting photography in public areas is Constitutionally shaky ground.
I walk past half dozen everyplace I go. Just seems out of place in the wilderness that someone is watching me.
All trail cams should be banned everywhere. Food plots too. It's baiting for the well off.
All trail cams especially cell cams, drones, E bikes, shouldn’t be allowed on public lands.
Get rid of all trail cameras
Kinda funny most of the guys commenting on here are against cell cams on public!!
X amount of trail cams allowed to run with name and address on each cam is tge way to go
Holy crap! This guy is complaining about a 3-week rifle season in Kentucky and saying that it is an impediment to deer management. By the way, depending on the timing, I'm not disagreeing but in North Carolina our Eastern counties allow over 90 days of firearms hunting. You want to see a screwed up age structure come on!
They need to be banned in every state during the season. They are the most detrimental thing to happen that completely undermines conservation. Just like the Live Scope the fisherman use. I’ve seen hunting shows where the hunter gets out of the tree and goes across the farm on his electric buggy/bike then kills the deer. I have friends that will sit in their truck waiting to see if the deer show up to their corn pile.
Ban the corn pile
excellent! cell cams are the problem.
All his points are bullshit, it's all about control. They need to worry about stuff that matters
I’m indifferent about this. I am more concerned with people leaving stands, blinds etc on public land. I wish had all the time in the world to scout and use cameras but I don’t. If I see a camera it doesn’t deter me it just affirms I’m in the right spot.
Cameras take away the challenge. Now the challenge is finding a deer that survives and isn't dead because someone else knew it was there from using a camera. I want the challenge to be because of fair chase and not because there are no big deer making it through each year. Cameras lower the hubting quality on WMAs a lot.
I hope they do!!!! Will help stop a lot of drama and make it more
Fair chase!
Simply put, Cell Cams are not fair chase
So many issues surrounding technology that is rapidly evolving regarding trail cameras and drones. When I first started seeing this technology, it seemed to be an incredible way to scout large areas very quickly (pre-season), recover game with a poor blood trail, etc. Here is a couple of takes on all of it. One, regarding drones, there is no way to separate recovery of a carcass from hunting of the animal and here is why. While you are searching for a wounded animal, you are also encountering other animals, other deer, other trophy bucks, SO, during the process of searching for a carcass, there is no way to separate the SCOUTING OTHER BUCKS during this search process. Also, if you find the targeted wounded animal and it is not dead, you are automatically back in scouting mode for that particular animal. Secondly, this technology not only involves real time surveillance of wildlife, but it also involves real time surveillance of PEOPLE using public property. I think anyone using public property has the right to NOT BE SPIED UPON or WATCHED using these devices regardless of what activity they are engaged in. Some will say, "Well if you are not doing anything wrong, you should not be concerned about being watched..." There was another guy that said that. His name was Adolf Hitler. The best way to look at this is, what if YOU are the person being watched by this technology. What if YOU are fishing, or sitting in a tree stand, or still hunting, and one of these devices is being used or deployed in YOUR area looking at YOU, your location, where your vehicle is parked, where your tree stand is located, where the deer are around you, when you are there and when you are NOT there. Are you gonna tell me, YOU are ok with it?
What are you all going to ban next? Too many cry babies 😢
Ebikes
One argument being made is people feel like others are staking a claim to a specific by using cell cameras or cameras, what about leaving tree stands on public? Should they ban the leaving of tree stands? If not how can others make the argument that cameras prevent them from hunting a specific area?
I agree totally about hunters leaving tree stands on public land can be implied at staking your claim to that area. Of course most courteous hunters won't hunt that area if there is a tree stand there, but technically someone can put their climber up 100 yards away from that ladder stand if they are in that area first.
Not a fan of technology that enables hunters to plan their hunt without putting in time in the woods. The search for antlers seems to know no bounds. Cameras provide an unfair advantage and take the uncertainty of a big rub out of the equation. Get them off public lands...all of them.
Arizona banned all cameras, as much as i dont like it, i would rather have the game less pressured and it keeps the pro hunter/outfitter at bay. Fair chase needs to be re-evaluated as the technology is bridging that gap. Guys like this with 90 cameras is ridiculous and the reason there are these issues.
Here is a video that explains in a little more detail why trail cameras should be banned on public land. ua-cam.com/video/UQuO47uTR24/v-deo.htmlsi=makBmuNKsBjugyeE
This is ridiculous. We're really worried about overcrowding while hunter numbers are declining and nowhere close to what they used to be? And while we have a growing minority of people ethically against hunting that will soon outnumber us? No hunter should be advocating for any statewide or national legislation that takes away hunting privileges for the reasons Jake pointed out. Make WMA specific restrictions if necessary, but don't make it easy for our opponents.
It's all about greedy hunters that ruin it for everyone leaving stands and cameras year-round. Bad apples.
This is overreach in a government agency. Trail cameras have been used for years on public and private lands. Just because they are cellular now should have no bearing on outlawing them. This is someone's personal disdain for cameras and has no legal argument for banning them. Whatever Kentucky, you probably should be more focused on the drug epidemic in your state.
You know what he said? He just won't give Kentucky his money anymore. Okay, so now Kentucky loses all that money gas food lodging. More hunting gear license tags processing. So now Kentucky is lost money now that game warden. It keeps going, they kentucky can't pay for that land so now they're gonna have to sail the land so yeah, the bowl rolls down hill, buddy, you take it away, you lose everything
They are already banned by Fair chase rules when they are used to assist a hunter in choosing the right tree stand. And the cell cameras SHOULD be banned for that reason. So should drones. They are NOT fair chase. The only people wanting to keep them legal are the ones trying to make a profit.
GREED!!!!!
The same clowns that bitch about crossbows and the fact that hunting is too expensive now are using cell cams and couple thousand dollar 80 yard accurate compounds. Until you start reading sign the old fashioned way and carry a longbow or recurve you should just all keep quiet. Ted will be a great leader!
Here in WV it is something that people do, they will put cheap trail cams everywhere and treestands every 50 yards... trying to claim huge areas of public land as their own. Hunter numbers are on a steady incline while huntable land, public and private, declines every year.
The argument against cell cameras are weak. If you think they mark territory then you also hsve to ban leaving any equipment on public land. A tree stand marks expectation of territory more than a camera. This discussion is specifically about cell cameras not all cameras. Non cell cameras require the individual to come to the camera and as a result they disrupt the environment for everyone more. As far as fair chase the issue is if someone uses them to track movement while hunting to be alerted of sn incoming deer. Most cell cameras are where the individual is actually hunting not somewhere else. So it all comes down to "I don't do it so no one else should" irrationality. Got to think what these people think when they get to an unmarked spot and someone is hunting it just like someone going to their stand and finding someone in the next tree over having gotten there before them. I mean, their stand is in the tree and they have no options otherwise 😂
My problem is DNR use them to catch solving a case ,or catching a poacher so what's the difference is a hunter using it to close the deal on a deer or elk!!! Here we are letting gov. Official regulate how we hunt!!!!
there is no issue that's why it appeared out of the blue like the one commissioner said. this is probably being driven by one or two individuals that had their elk hunt influenced by a cell cam, so they think, and those people just happen to very wealthy or has tenure/employed by the government.
The problem is not cell cams or even regular cams its the social media, the last guy on your podcast is proof. He has to get pictures and post them on every platform for all to see. We've hunted same public as him for years before he showed up and had no issues with over crowding but like he said this year was worse we every seen for out of state presure
I think a question to ask is, does this level the playing field on wma?
Is that the issue?
Let’s take away things that may get more hunters in the woods and draw lines among hunters .. no wonder there are less hunters in the younger generations. I’m 45 and sick of seeing hunters argue over bow type and bait. Everyone just hunt how you want within the laws and to each his own.
No cameras but using a crossbow with a magnified scope during archery season is ok. Since its so ridiculous im sure they'll paas it. Im sure Indiana will as soon as they get the idea.
Hunters like me try to stay away from cameras when they are spoted ahead of time.
Saying that you don't see many Hunters on camera doesn't mean they are not there.
And for a hunter not to see that many cameras means we all see and hunt different areas. Or we are not looking for cameras we are looking for deer.
Its not about the cameras. It's about the unfair hunting practice. When u can tell what part of property dr is in and rush out to kill it ain't f😢air chase.
Way to many here in sw mich public...cant walk anywhere without running past several....Ban !!
I do not care either way, but no cameras just mean becoming a better hunter. An old school hunter, going off of just sign you find in the woods.
I wish they would ban them here in MO. It is unsportsman like conduct and is not fair chase.
I've used traditional methods for finding game it's going and sitting and watching that's fun to me and exercise I think the cameras are for the lazy or to busy to hunt,,ppl that just put up camera leave wait for the pic on the phone run in and shoot that's not hunting 😊
If it’s publicly owned or funded land, shouldn’t the public use it for a public use?
Just imagine having my privet parts on a camera that wasn't spoted on time when it was time to go.😮
cell cams can and do help in taking deer.
you can just wait for a pic and head to that location