I recently did the Manton upgrade, can’t stress enough how badly that went. Changed to the BTR Shaft Rocker kit… valve train is extremely quiet and happy now!
Great timing on this video. I have a set of the BTR trunnions on the bench right now for my 6.0. Maybe this video will motivate me to get out there and do it.
Just for addition thought, my engine is a 2003 Tahoe. When it comes to Positive Crankcase ventilation, the passengers side is oil fill only, thus pulling crankcase fumes (Carbon, Moisture & Hydrocarbons) out drivers side. During the engine tear down, I noticed every valve on the drivers side had witness marks on the valve stem ends show rocker arm contact. Now, this was my job for over 4 decades is to notice wear patterns, odd as may be. The passengers side had none and I concluded the ware pattern was because of carbon drawn into the rocker arm cover. I dressed them flat and rockers arms as well after new captured trunnions. But, to increase longevity, I bought another drivers side valve cover, placed a box end wrench over the vent pipe, rotated it 180 degrees backwards (They are just pressed in) and now both are fresh air in. The center valley plate was modified to pull Crankcase Fumes out, ran to "Catch Can". I can go into more detail if needed but I did it my self. All crankcase fumes come out of the middle, catch can, then to PCV valve to change air flow. I am just suggesting not telling you that you must, but here's what I did. I included it into May service manual unique to this truck, including part numbers, schematics, diff, trans (700R4) I bench build 2 winter ago as from a 1987 era with single wire temp sender in pan to console gauge. Have a safe week. I hope this info makes sense and finds you in good health! DK, Omaha.
That's a good idea and if you just pull the valve covers normally the bottoms will show what you're talking about on these. Both will have some accumulation but the drivers side will have a lot more build up
@@GoatRopeGarage The valve covers that have the metal vent tube, have a metal baffle blind riveted into them. I Water Pipe fittings and GM/Permatex Pipe sealant, sold at home improvement stores next to epoxy. I use 1" copper pipe and hangers, took the heads off aluminum rivets, drilled shallow hole (Practiced First on Similar) and drove them with large flat punch. So, the dollar store sells stainless steel wool now for cheap. I shoved it in the pipe not tight but full. This allows cooling and vapor to turn into liquid. Small holes at the front and increased size every inch going back. I installed a 30 degree angle fitting per-soldered in place. This routes it between knock sensors going backwards. Cross-drilled the tip and install two cotter pins in an "X" pattern. Top side, drilled the valley pan measured for intake clearance and faced a barbed fitting backwards under intake to hide hoses. I used two aluminum oil drain washers and pipe sealant to tighten at valley plate, sealed knock sensors top & bottom with continuous bead of high-temp red RTV. The rest is pumping and running two hoses into one, and end at fresh filtered air. I am not an advocate for oil catch cans but in this case, I highly recommend using one to get the blow-by oil, moisture and black carbon out and not back into intake. Moisture comes from burning a fossil fuel but once the engine internals exceed 212 degrees F, it can't boil off. It takes 574 degrees extra heat after boil to turn into stream. This is latent heats definition. Short trips ruin engine oil quickly. Holler if you need something. DK, Omaha. ASE Master Tech since 1978, retired.
@@GoatRopeGarage I didn't notice any extra build up up comparing one side to the other on the valve covers vent cover. But, once the rockers came off, i cleaned the springs, retainers and general condition of the head, then the light caught my eye on the valve stem ends. I stopped and done the same on the passengers side only to find no wear or witness marks. Trained by rebuilding carburetors, distributors, alternators and starters, I double checked my findings only to find wear on one side and not the other. It was obvious to determine the root cause and started researching the difference. I am not familiar with the "LS" engine and changes in paint chemistry. My research lead me to both engine, trans and mostly paint. Chemical paint strip (Coopers Stripper Club) cheap, spray not gel (Videos) epoxy, high build, flat hard blocks, guide coat, base & clears (Both MS & HS) and flow coat all for a 67 C10 with wood bed and the proper way to treat it after cut & installed. I enjoy learning. 6 things alone with the "LS" oil pump circuit and galleries tricks. DK, Omaha.
Is this a gen 3 or gen 4? Also just wondering what you are using for an engine management system? Glad to see you doing well after your surgery! It’s great to hear your speech improving with every video as you go forward!
@@GoatRopeGarage Awesome! I'm in the process of finishing off a 6L swap in my s10, single turbo, running on E38 ECM. I have it running well now thanks to all your Gen 4 tuning videos! Keep the great content coming!
2 questions 1. What kind of rpm would you say the trunnion upgrade allows you to safely turn all day. 2. How often should the rockers and trunnions be replaced to avoid metal fatigue, assuming all the motor they are in sees is hard driving and strip time.
The MM trunnion kits use the same bearing that is in the BTR shaft rocker kits which people turn 8,000-8500rpm with on a regular basis (though obviously the shaft kit will have a lot more stability to it). As far as the GM rocker bodies themselves, if the valvetrain is under control, they will outlast your engine and can be pushed past 7500rpm no problem. If you are having valve bounce or run high spring pressures without a good quality oil, then you can see occasional breakage or excessive wear on the factory style rockers. If you switch to a roller tip rocker (depending on the cam profile) you will typically need to run more spring pressure than the usual LS Dual Spring kits to keep from experiencing valve float towards 7,000rpm since the roller tip rockers have a lot more nose weight than a factory style rocker. If you keep things under .630" lift and run a good quality performance oil that contains decent levels of high pressure additives (ZDDP, Sulfer etc) then the factory rockers will hold up great with just a trunnion upgrade.
Great video, as usual. Any reason that you decided not to go with the solid bushing style? Maybe you mentioned it in the video and I missed it. If so, my apologies.
Have you noticed that some of the center shafts don’t move as freely as others once you replaced the two bearings? I have those tools and some just don’t feel smooth.
If the Michigan Motorsports trunion kit is like the BTR kit then I would be very leary about using it. I purchased the BTR V1 kit from Michigan Motorsports and the bearing surfaces were messed up because they were all bagged together scratching/dinging themselves up. Michigan Motorsports is working with me to correct this and I have purchased the BTR V2 kit. Well, it had a trunion that had one of its bearing surfaces cracked! So, if you get one of these kits be very careful and look at the bearing surfaces before you put them in.
@@GoatRopeGarage The actual bearings come in tubes in the BTR kits but the shafts/bearing surfaces are all bagged together allowing them to get dinged up. I guess they changed that for the better over the past couple of months. I have pics of both the bad V1 and V2 bearing surfaces in a thread at performancetrucks titled "BTR quality" of anyone wants to see them.
@@GoatRopeGarage holy cow... Glad youre doing better man. Learned alot from your vids!!! I had a friend a few years back, at his 60th bday party, when i got to his place he was talking like he was already wasted, slurring. Asked him and his wife how much he had drank already and they said 1 beer... I didnt wanna be a party pooper but knew something was wrong. He was rushed to the ER at 2:30am with a stroke when half his face went numb...
I did the trunnion upgrade when I rebuilt my 99% stock 5.3. Totally worth it 👍
Glad to see you doing this.
I recently did the Manton upgrade, can’t stress enough how badly that went. Changed to the BTR Shaft Rocker kit… valve train is extremely quiet and happy now!
Great timing on this video. I have a set of the BTR trunnions on the bench right now for my 6.0. Maybe this video will motivate me to get out there and do it.
Installed yesterday on the heads.
Just for addition thought, my engine is a 2003 Tahoe. When it comes to Positive Crankcase ventilation, the passengers side is oil fill only, thus pulling crankcase fumes (Carbon, Moisture & Hydrocarbons) out drivers side. During the engine tear down, I noticed every valve on the drivers side had witness marks on the valve stem ends show rocker arm contact. Now, this was my job for over 4 decades is to notice wear patterns, odd as may be. The passengers side had none and I concluded the ware pattern was because of carbon drawn into the rocker arm cover. I dressed them flat and rockers arms as well after new captured trunnions. But, to increase longevity, I bought another drivers side valve cover, placed a box end wrench over the vent pipe, rotated it 180 degrees backwards (They are just pressed in) and now both are fresh air in. The center valley plate was modified to pull Crankcase Fumes out, ran to "Catch Can".
I can go into more detail if needed but I did it my self. All crankcase fumes come out of the middle, catch can, then to PCV valve to change air flow.
I am just suggesting not telling you that you must, but here's what I did. I included it into May service manual unique to this truck, including part numbers, schematics, diff, trans (700R4) I bench build 2 winter ago as from a 1987 era with single wire temp sender in pan to console gauge.
Have a safe week. I hope this info makes sense and finds you in good health!
DK, Omaha.
That's a good idea and if you just pull the valve covers normally the bottoms will show what you're talking about on these. Both will have some accumulation but the drivers side will have a lot more build up
@@GoatRopeGarage The valve covers that have the metal vent tube, have a metal baffle blind riveted into them. I Water Pipe fittings and GM/Permatex Pipe sealant, sold at home improvement stores next to epoxy. I use 1" copper pipe and hangers, took the heads off aluminum rivets, drilled shallow hole (Practiced First on Similar) and drove them with large flat punch. So, the dollar store sells stainless steel wool now for cheap. I shoved it in the pipe not tight but full. This allows cooling and vapor to turn into liquid. Small holes at the front and increased size every inch going back. I installed a 30 degree angle fitting per-soldered in place. This routes it between knock sensors going backwards. Cross-drilled the tip and install two cotter pins in an "X" pattern. Top side, drilled the valley pan measured for intake clearance and faced a barbed fitting backwards under intake to hide hoses. I used two aluminum oil drain washers and pipe sealant to tighten at valley plate, sealed knock sensors top & bottom with continuous bead of high-temp red RTV. The rest is pumping and running two hoses into one, and end at fresh filtered air. I am not an advocate for oil catch cans but in this case, I highly recommend using one to get the blow-by oil, moisture and black carbon out and not back into intake. Moisture comes from burning a fossil fuel but once the engine internals exceed 212 degrees F, it can't boil off. It takes 574 degrees extra heat after boil to turn into stream. This is latent heats definition. Short trips ruin engine oil quickly. Holler if you need something. DK, Omaha. ASE Master Tech since 1978, retired.
@@GoatRopeGarage I didn't notice any extra build up up comparing one side to the other on the valve covers vent cover. But, once the rockers came off, i cleaned the springs, retainers and general condition of the head, then the light caught my eye on the valve stem ends. I stopped and done the same on the passengers side only to find no wear or witness marks. Trained by rebuilding carburetors, distributors, alternators and starters, I double checked my findings only to find wear on one side and not the other. It was obvious to determine the root cause and started researching the difference.
I am not familiar with the "LS" engine and changes in paint chemistry. My research lead me to both engine, trans and mostly paint. Chemical paint strip (Coopers Stripper Club) cheap, spray not gel (Videos) epoxy, high build, flat hard blocks, guide coat, base & clears (Both MS & HS) and flow coat all for a 67 C10 with wood bed and the proper way to treat it after cut & installed. I enjoy learning. 6 things alone with the "LS" oil pump circuit and galleries tricks. DK, Omaha.
Mine are in the mail!! You make it look so easy!! Youre killin it with the videos!!
Whatever you do, make it last and run better than before.
Thanks very helpful
Did the Manton LS/LT Gen 5 kit on my recent 2018 LTZ cam swap. Just do it!
That was the first engine upgrade I did.
Hows the side to side movement, after the upgrade, any play?
No, solid
Is this a gen 3 or gen 4? Also just wondering what you are using for an engine management system? Glad to see you doing well after your surgery! It’s great to hear your speech improving with every video as you go forward!
3rd gen so 24/1. Going to be running it on the stock ECU! Thanks!!
@@GoatRopeGarage Awesome! I'm in the process of finishing off a 6L swap in my s10, single turbo, running on E38 ECM. I have it running well now thanks to all your Gen 4 tuning videos! Keep the great content coming!
Do you remote tune? I’m using hp tuner and I have a LSA in my 81 c10
Best upgrade you can do to save that motor!!
im doing bronze tho, I cant see taking out needle bearings to add more needle bearings
Does the geometry of the rocker stay the same as stock?
2 questions
1. What kind of rpm would you say the trunnion upgrade allows you to safely turn all day.
2. How often should the rockers and trunnions be replaced to avoid metal fatigue, assuming all the motor they are in sees is hard driving and strip time.
I wouldn't push them past 7k personally, go to a roller rocker at that point. Honestly for both those questions of they are concerns go roller.
The MM trunnion kits use the same bearing that is in the BTR shaft rocker kits which people turn 8,000-8500rpm with on a regular basis (though obviously the shaft kit will have a lot more stability to it). As far as the GM rocker bodies themselves, if the valvetrain is under control, they will outlast your engine and can be pushed past 7500rpm no problem. If you are having valve bounce or run high spring pressures without a good quality oil, then you can see occasional breakage or excessive wear on the factory style rockers. If you switch to a roller tip rocker (depending on the cam profile) you will typically need to run more spring pressure than the usual LS Dual Spring kits to keep from experiencing valve float towards 7,000rpm since the roller tip rockers have a lot more nose weight than a factory style rocker. If you keep things under .630" lift and run a good quality performance oil that contains decent levels of high pressure additives (ZDDP, Sulfer etc) then the factory rockers will hold up great with just a trunnion upgrade.
Great info! Thanks!
Awesome thank you guys!
Great video, as usual. Any reason that you decided not to go with the solid bushing style? Maybe you mentioned it in the video and I missed it. If so, my apologies.
Don't need the performance of solid bushings on this setup
again, damn I wish I knew about the tool... Im using sockets and a c-clamp, not even a vice lololol
Have you noticed that some of the center shafts don’t move as freely as others once you replaced the two bearings? I have those tools and some just don’t feel smooth.
Make sure you didn't press the bearings in to far, they will bind on the center section
Can anyone give any feedback on them after 50k miles ?
The captured bearing kit is the only kit to buy, never EVER do the bronze bushing kit that sheds metal and turns your oil into a bronze soup.
Wait?! C clips? Ummm I think I forgot to put those in 🤷♂️🤣
If the Michigan Motorsports trunion kit is like the BTR kit then I would be very leary about using it. I purchased the BTR V1 kit from Michigan Motorsports and the bearing surfaces were messed up because they were all bagged together scratching/dinging themselves up. Michigan Motorsports is working with me to correct this and I have purchased the BTR V2 kit. Well, it had a trunion that had one of its bearing surfaces cracked! So, if you get one of these kits be very careful and look at the bearing surfaces before you put them in.
They come in tubes with the MM kit, very safe and secure
@@GoatRopeGarage The actual bearings come in tubes in the BTR kits but the shafts/bearing surfaces are all bagged together allowing them to get dinged up. I guess they changed that for the better over the past couple of months. I have pics of both the bad V1 and V2 bearing surfaces in a thread at performancetrucks titled "BTR quality" of anyone wants to see them.
Dang..first again!!!
but we are using the exact same brands of everything lol
ARBOR PRESS IS THE WAY ON THIS INSTALL ...💩js
Yeah, for sure and cheaper is you don't already have a vice
BRO!! Close your teeth when you talk
Have you been to the doctor lately? I have watched alot of your videos and the recent change to your voice modulation and hand shake is worrying...
I had brain surgery end of last year for my tremors, have an appointment Friday for adjustments to my device, it’s turned down too much right now.
@@GoatRopeGarage holy cow... Glad youre doing better man. Learned alot from your vids!!! I had a friend a few years back, at his 60th bday party, when i got to his place he was talking like he was already wasted, slurring. Asked him and his wife how much he had drank already and they said 1 beer... I didnt wanna be a party pooper but knew something was wrong. He was rushed to the ER at 2:30am with a stroke when half his face went numb...
Would have been a much better vid if you had kept the camera on the parts instead of bouncing all over.