W take. If you're in the Alpha to hunt bugs for personal gain you should be BANNED. Although I trust them to find the abusers and make a sound judgement regardless of my personal opinion on ban severity.
Sharif has made it clear exploiters will be banned, PERIOD. And they have systems looking for strange behaviors, like everyone in a guild has the same legendary item. And since every account costs money, it will hurt. And proof of the ban hammer being swung, the people who ganked Asmondgold got perma banned. And lost $100 each. Also, dupe bugs are the worst, ask any Shadowbane player.
@@henrifortier8621 Yeah and the zerg guilds were too busy pvping to care about the node progression. We were locked in the crafting stone age, since folks just farmed dungeons for backup gear drops.
Dupers who actually tested, reported, and didnt abuse it? Give those players a cookie. Dupers who abused and exploited the duping whether or not they also reported should be punished. Whether that punishment is a ban, resetting their characters to level 1 and wiping their items, or perma-marking their account characters as corrupt until the next phase so they are more or less marked for shame and guaranteed to lose their gear if they play. It doesnt matter to me what the punishment is as long as they are substantially punished enough to be made an example of and to show that it will not be tolerated in ashes by any means.
Yes, if they don't report, but use it, especially more than once, and it's not in the Known Bugs, that account should be killed, permanently banned. I'm a firm believer that.
My thoughts exactly, great video Vlhadus. I don't think perma bans should be handed out but as you said they need to be held accountable if continuing to dupe after reporting or doing it without reporting.
Just ban the entire guild. Wholesale. Blizzard banned entire guilds for Raid exploits during Raid to World First. These people are not ruining a raid race, they are trying - actively - to ruin the game.
encouraged in what way? how many people have actually been cheating? Or are they just better than you? i haven't seen any cheaters and i haven't heard of any cheaters until this "dupe" cheat. so i mean. so what you will. just another clueless keyboard warrior.
Funny that you are argueing against Exploiters that much (rightfully so) but you host a tournament with a guy that literally openly admits, that he and his guild will exploit as much as possible and will abuse every exploit they stumble on and is proud of it. KEKW
Just to be clear before I begin my rant. I myself discovered 2 seperate duplication glitches, one this weekend and one in the weekend before. When I am done testing a dupe glitch I stop using it immediately, because my goal is to test, not gain an advantage on everyone else. The first glitch I discovered was only shared with one person, so he could figure out how to repeat it, because I didn't wanna try myself. In general we were just having fun in our guild and doing random shenanigans such as the usual steering a horse into water, landrafts, packing materials, testing beacons etc. There was probably around 10 people in our circle who learned of the duplication glitch, when we learned how to properly repeat it on a sunday, and it was very difficult to do and it was fixed before the next weekend. Every person in this circle had the chance to dupe if they wanted to for a few hours, but everyone agreed that they prefer the authentic experience and acting in good faith. Thus I can confidently say that the first duplication glitch never left our circle and was never abused by us to my knowledge. Then the second week comes around, I wanted to gather all my materials from Halcyon and Winstead and put them in Miraleth. I took all my materials from Halcyon and headed to Winstead. In Winstead I double check that I had emptied everything everywhere and I became arund 70% sure that I might have duped my shit. Went back to Halcyon and realised I could dupe consistently by doing it 2-3 times. There was also a way to avoid duping and began /bugging everything as I went along. A lot of alarms went off here in my head, because servers had only been up for 7 hours, the steps were very simple and anyone could do it by mistake. I didn't even try to test the inventory system to learn about this. I just realised I had more rubys than I expected. Realising this was the first day I decided to go radio silent to anyone I knew about the bug. Only thing my friends and guildies knew was that there was another dupe bug. I didn't even tell them where it could be done or what was being duped, only that it was very easy to do and I was contacting a community manager active at that point directly and I believe they read my messages fairly quick. 12 hours later, servers were on an individual basis taken down for maintenance. I assumed this was to patch the exact bug and they were gonna repair my inventory as I was getting asked further details about the bug at the same time. I might've let it slip, which NPC was in question, but also because I knew there was a potential my guildmates could've deleted their items earlier. After maintenance was done I could still replicate the bug and of course I let my contact know immediately that it was still possible, in which they assured me they were working on it. 7 hours later we have the bug hunt forum and I believe a method were disclosed, which shouldn't have been shared. Funny enough the method in the forum was actually completely seperate. With the forum they also asked for a video so I sent a video privately to the community manager, although 4 hours late because i didn't really read the news properly the first time. Given that I had disclosed the location to my guildies some might've been keeping a better eye and also learned how to do it. The method was never shared in the guild, only the location and we had a strong policy to keep it that way and by the end around 5-7 people knew how. Thus I can proudly say that while we discovered the duplication glitches very early, our guild have never abused them to gain an unfair advantage with them and have done our best effort to report them without sharing them needlessly. So getting on to my POV on that a lot of people have managed to dupe and the ethical dilemma: First of all. Nearly every duping glitch was also a deleting glitch. For people unaware of the bug there is just as big a chance that you move all the stuff from one inventory to the next and it gets deleted as it gets duplicated. It simply doesn't make sense to reprimand any of these people, who didn't know. And even if they did become aware of it at a later stage, you can ask yourself; "did I have 120 common rubies or 160?", because I knew I did sitting in Winstead and looking at my Halcyon inventory and asked myself that exact question. Further "did I have 800 glint or 2400 from farming from lvl 18-20?", when a lot different materials are distributed in different inventories, unsorted and uncounted it is very hard to keep track. I bet most people can't say how much glint they have in their storage if they were asked right now. Also at the end of the day does these questions even matter in the grand scheme for other players? Because I believe that anything that can be acquired within a few hours doesn't matter at all. As for duping 100's of epic+ materials and/or gear of similar sums, using an exploit for serious amounts of gold or scamming people with invalid items there is absolutely no excuse. These people spent hours just to ruin the experience for everyone around them. They should absolutely be punished, but what about litteraly everyone who falls in between those acting entirely in bad faith and those acting in good faith? What about the the little guy who realised he was duping and got himself 5 extra gold for his Ebon Mare? Having grinded to lvl 20 and looted plenty of glint to do many 12 slot uncommon crates caravans myself, I don't care if that guy gets himself a little extra, even though he slightly cheated. Do I care about the guy who decided to craft himself a legendary tool with extra materials? Not really either, cause it is still a drop in the ocean of players on a server. I think I could even go as far as allow other people to dupe 20 legendary copper, before I begin drawing a line, because It doesn't impact me. I dont know for sure anyone who has exploited on my server, I suspect a few who decided to begin selling a lot of materials, but I can still believe that they could've gotten that stuff legit and thus I absolutely don't care about if they get reprimanded if they actually exploited. I understand that people draw different lines for what they find acceptable and what they don't find acceptable, but I think we can all agree that there is a gray zone here where it is hard to ban people. The bottom line is also that acting in good faith and reporting game breaking bugs is more important than reprimanding, so let's focus on the good stuff and be thankful that it was discovered early and that Intrepid didn't decide to just close the servers and instead let us have fun this weekend. I am bad at using the word tester myself, but in the end we are testers, not players. Wave 1 is not about an authentic experience, it is about stability and this is a huge step in a good direction and I want every single exploiter last weekend to log in next week and see if they can exploit again, so we can smash the next exploit bug that they find. Intrepid can always ban them when they try to do it again in beta. I also want to cover the idea of setting an example to other bad faith actors. The idea that if these dupers don't get banned, dupers will never report duping glitches when they discover them so they can abuse them later or as soon as they discover a dupe, they will abuse it as much as possible. If these bad faith actors gets banned for sure, the others will get the right idea. I don't agree with this idea either because first and foremost it is feudal, oppressive and has shown that it rarely works in large scale communities. The only real benefit is that those they wronged can get a fleeting satisfaction of justice. If we truly want them to stop we should try to instead educate them and let them know that they won't forever be welcome if they don't get their act together. Let it be known that player xxxx is duping and don't let him in the guild, party up or trade with him. Of course we forget with time, but we should also forgive them with time and until then, let them hold the cross for everyone to see. It is also way healthier if the community builds the rules themselves rather than an expensive justice system forcing them on us. We have already seen on multiple occassions where guilds, who harrass others get unpopular on the server and gets reprimanded by other guilds. We build the world, including the rules and only when everything goes off the rails, should Intrepid intervene. In this case, ethics are clearly not off the rails, just the materials. So Intrepid should only deal with the materials. We know the names, let them be KOS and they might even stop playing voluntarily. This ain't about justice, it's about creating a better environment, where actions have consequences. Do you want to risk duping where you lose the items anyway when it gets reported and be known as the duper? In the end this is the exact same dilemma as to whether people killing newbies should be reprimanded. If it doesn't sit right with you that player xxxx is killing newbies and getting extremely corrupted, then go kill him yourself a few times. It'll probably set him back as much as a 1 day ban would do anyway. We can just as easily embargo dupers, if we really want to, especially knowing that at some point the items probably will get deleted anyway. The reason that level 1-5's got protected was because we as a community failed to protect them and it got out of hand and Intrepid had to intervene, exactly a situation where things got out of hand. Anyway that is my take on it and I fully accept that Intrepid can decide to ban no one or they can ban every single tester, which knowingly benefitted even a tiny amount from it, because at the end of the day, the ToS were clear, a lot of people broke them and Intrepid can enforce the ToS as much as they please.
Also about the point of knowing who did duping based on ids sounds a little insane to me. First of all we already know that we are dealing with a distributed system. There is no single DBMS that is handling everything, meaning that if one item is moved from one inventory from another, it is essentially removed from one system and inserted into another serverside. Another point is that to keep track of every single item and how they are moved/edited etc., they would need to create a new record of the item, a row in their table of items everytime it is updated such as moving it 1 tile in the inventory, increasing the stack size, moving it into another inventory. Assuming that they did have a record of every state of the item, then they would also need to search the records. I assume something similar to seeing that 3 identical items were added in quick succession. That's a lot of searching they need to do on a pr. player basis, which is also computionally heavy. So I absolutely don't believe they can do this automatically. They can probably review it manually, by tracing individual time, but that is extremely tedious and waste of time in a darn alpha. There are plenty of optimizations they can do for data-intesive systems, but that is wasteful to already implement now, while they are still expecting to make schema changes.
What I hope they do in regards to fixing the current state of the realms, is that they slot in backups from before this weekend. Remember they only need to do wipes on larger schema changes and for progression testing purposes.
I don't agree that this is a grey area. Its easy to ban. There is a TOS that everybody agreed to. It is very cut and dry. We might be helping test the game, but this is also a lot of folks first chances to try out a project they helped fund. Be that kickstarter, slacker backer, or just buying into the alpha, this is the first few weeks of play for super users. You have a server that is effectively a botched experience for those involved. Even if this is a temporary service, its still going to affect peoples opinions going forward. As for the logging, it's going to be hard to assume anything related to transaction logs or what data Intrepid might be holding on to on the backside. I have to imagine a lot of the data services they've boasted about in the fact are a little exaggerated, but we still don't know to what degree of an easy or extensive task it would be to recognize the duplicated assets. Assuming it would be computationally heavy to try and identify the relationship between inventory data tables spread across horizontally scaled systems may be correct, but it may also be much easier than we know. Hard to tell without looking at their data collection.
@@Bribzy They have a ToS in Alpha? hahahaha. How on earth do they already know their ToS when they haven't even tested the systems that implement ToS yet.
Our guild found Chest that we could get no problem. just semi AFK and collect every minute. We reported it as, getting 4k XP and 20 Glint seemed a little broken. now chest can't be open at all.
Love that we found dupe bugs already that won't make it to Release. Big W. Also, those bows were not duped. Novice tier items are so trash that it tricked everyone into thinking crafting isn't worth it. Crafting is overpowered as hell in this game, and those bows are proof. If you know, you know. Looking forward to doing the same exact thing in Phase 2 : )
Rofl. You're doing an event with Crix? I bet Enveus people had serious mixed feelings about this video, especially when you called them pieces of crap.
Isn't the WHOLE point of an Alpha Test to discover bugs? How you gonna ban people for abusing bugs that they are supposed to find? I really don't get it. The problem here is how people are playing an ALPHA TEST competitively. That's not the point at all.
@@Rorther If someone bug reports it after seeing it happen to them, that's one thing. If that person then purposefully continues to abuse that bug, that is completely different. A slap on the wrist now just means future slaps on the wrists. If an outright ban is too harsh for Inteprid, then wiping all those abusers' characters would be fine. It just depends on what precedent Intrepid wants to set.
@@NKBrilloYT How i'm supposed to know if its a bug or not, if i can't test it further, to see in which condition it happens and which it doesnt happen? Getting banned for BUG ABUSING on Alpha is straight a mistake.
I'm glad the duping happened, it lets them improve their monitoring, and we are going to get wiped anyways, so, who cares, as long as the bug gets fixed and they take the opportunity to better track the providence of items to detect duping bugs automatically
Does every item has *unique* ID? Because if so, automatic system that removes dupes should be pretty easy to implement. Unless the dupe generates completely new item.. then it's whole another story. Anyway it's a shame that some people do not understand alpha and beta stages, but I guess it's not only the game that can grow during that period. Let's hope they get a lesson, learn from it and become better before release :)
Those bows in ur thumbnails are LEGITIMATE. Intrepid is aware of how they were crafted. There is in fact a dupe thing going around. But those legendary magic bows were not a dupe. I can 100% guarantee you that
I'm thinking -10 levels for anyone hoarding duped items. If they were greedy enough to try to dupe level 20 gear, they can sit at level 10 gear for a while and think about it.
It would be nice if they were held accountable. But I would rather have their employees working on making the game better than going through accounts looking for dupers and deleting their stuff. I hope they get it under control by the time Wave 2 rolls in, but we all know everything will be wiped then, so until then I just want the devs focusing entirely on fixing bugs, making the Archetypes solid, and making the servers as top tier as possible. We all knew this could/would happen eventually. Just be glad it happened now, and not later (like you mentioned earlier). Just my 2 cents.
No drama really, best to uncover them now than at launch like what happened in new world. There is also a wipe in a few weeks so all the items and gold will be wiped
100% agree. Exploiters are pieces of crap. Kind of hypocritical though that you are doing a PVP event with a guy from one of the biggest exploitative gills. You know you have seen all of their War / Guild dropping exploit drama.
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They legit fixed it the next day. I don’t know why people are calling Steven out for stuff he and his team already fixed, that’s wild to me. They are doing a good job and it’s an alpha 😂
The bug was squashed before this video, this post, or public knowledge of the dupe was mainstream. AoC management is doing a great job. People finding out about this late just have no knowledge of what is going on in real time and jumping to conclusions when they really shouldn't. Jerk reactions from out of touch players saying crazy stuff kills games too. Mind your tongues if you haven't checked AoC official discords before you speak ill of the company. Steven posted yesterday at 9pm EST about dealing with dupers and it was fixed in PTR sooner than that post.
Better to have this shit in the open and get it fixed than keep it a secret and ruin the game. The reason you exploit and tell everyone how to do it, is so that it gets fixed faster. That being said, Intrepid has a certain development cadence, and if they get too distracted with these things during the wrong phase, proper attention might not happen for things they are actively working on, like server testing.
Not an issue, wipe coming December 20th. PTS fixed it. Hopefully they make a list of all the people that didn't report it and took advantage of it. No ban but, a warning 1 of 3 on the way to a ban.
Also, we need these people here in testing specifically to contribute to try to break and exploit the game. Give their accounts a Scarlett letter, sure... But we all benefit from them identifying these things now during testing.
@IzNebula 'unfortunately' not, had I known about it, it would have been real hard not to dupe up some copper though! 25 hours of playing so far and I've only ever found 4 nodes... :( But seriously, better to find these things now. No one wants another New World.
I dont get it, this is supposed to happen, is an alpha, everyone is playing like the game is already out, now imagine that whoever found the glitch did not share the info?, on release(if we ever get it) he and only he would have been mayor for sure of the economic nodes, asuming it does not get fixed, the complains are not healthy I think just report the bugs and try to get an advantage of the rest of the server, game is not out yet, yes we want to have fun, but do not overwhelm the devs with Drama for a game in alpha, NO DRAMA, YES TO REPORTING BUGS, please....
Duping doesn't matter, they discovered it and will now fix it. Thats the point of all the play testing. And It realllllly doesn't matter because we're server wiping in like a few weeks.
They discovered ONE more will come people who do it with purpose and not just TESTING/Bug Finding need to be made an example of period. We have all seen too many games ruined because of it.
@@APG34 Well atleast they know about it, imagine if no one reported it and it made its way to the full game. Better to trial by fire this right now. And again, we have like 3 weeks until its wiped. Or just about 6 days of play time.
@@APG34 People will do anything to have an advantage in a video game. It's why people cheat. There will be exploits players will take advantage of and not report it to take advantage of it during launch. People will pay handsomely for these exploits too. It's why Playstation has an exploit bounty hunter program to stop people from jailbreaking their systems. There's no advantage for them spilling the beans, and they have every advantage when it comes out.
Alphas are not meant to be played in a natural environment. You're suppose to push boundaries in an Alpha that's the whole point of testing. They might aswell release the game right now if they don't want people finding bugs and exploiting them. Due to intrepid charging for this alpha, it seems to have convoluted a lot of peoples minds and made them think AoC is a finished product you can't ban someone for going against ToS in an alpha because alpha is how you refine your ToS.
considering you have to pay 125 just to test the alpha, people should be allowed to test the gear, not sure how they are "pieces of crap" for playing what is essentially an alpha and wanting to limit test by getting the best gear. The author even says "it doesn't really matter" and in fact, it doesn't so let them have their fun in a limited experience they payed an insane amount of money for.
You can be a piece of crap by duping the gear for a whole guild and then that guild kills anyone they want on the server destroying the experience for other people, introducing negative feedback simply because they are overpowered by overusing the bug. All people paid a minimum of 120$ to join, and being pk by high lvl people just because they have 200 legendary bows now and they don't care about the karma is not a positive experience and might lose you testers in the long run. If you have any morals after you find a dupe and test it to see how to do it , you report the bug and then delete de duped items.
@ then everyone should get a duped item, it’s a 120 dollar alpha, everyone probably deserves a duped legendary by the end of it or they really didn’t get their moneys worth.
The entire game was doing it.... can't punish them all! It's also like a nuclear bomb. If you don't do it, everyone else definitely is. So you're just screwing yourself like a dummy.
Anyone keeping bugs underwraps in order to abuse it now or later should get a strike or be banned without refund depending on severity and record.
W take. If you're in the Alpha to hunt bugs for personal gain you should be BANNED. Although I trust them to find the abusers and make a sound judgement regardless of my personal opinion on ban severity.
Sharif has made it clear exploiters will be banned, PERIOD. And they have systems looking for strange behaviors, like everyone in a guild has the same legendary item. And since every account costs money, it will hurt. And proof of the ban hammer being swung, the people who ganked Asmondgold got perma banned. And lost $100 each.
Also, dupe bugs are the worst, ask any Shadowbane player.
It's an Alpha... stuff like this is literally the point of Alpha.
Imagine playing an alpha to win……that’s a low of lows mane. 😂
@@One-12937imagine being so pathetic that you gotta cheat at an alpha
Glad these things are happening now instead of at launch.
Why not just use lvl 10 vendor gear for the tournament?
Resna went from the stone age to Wakanda overnight after the dupe became widespread. 🤣🤣
Narc hyping up that Lyneth got 1 station finished meanwhile Resna got 5+
@@moose6853 resna only has 5 stations lmfao ??? wtf wasn't resna supposed to be the hardcore server
That is actually hilarious. Wakanda forever! 🤣😂🤣He isn't wrong though.
@@moose6853yeah, but cheating don't count
@@henrifortier8621 Yeah and the zerg guilds were too busy pvping to care about the node progression. We were locked in the crafting stone age, since folks just farmed dungeons for backup gear drops.
Dupers who actually tested, reported, and didnt abuse it? Give those players a cookie.
Dupers who abused and exploited the duping whether or not they also reported should be punished. Whether that punishment is a ban, resetting their characters to level 1 and wiping their items, or perma-marking their account characters as corrupt until the next phase so they are more or less marked for shame and guaranteed to lose their gear if they play. It doesnt matter to me what the punishment is as long as they are substantially punished enough to be made an example of and to show that it will not be tolerated in ashes by any means.
Seems like duping is going on rampant on every mmo. Wish cheaters were just straight up ip banned. Devs are way to soft on cheaters nowadays.
I hope everyone tries hard to dupe during the testing phases. All dupe methods need to be discovered now rather than later.
Alpha/Beta ban is 100% appropriate.
Yes, if they don't report, but use it, especially more than once, and it's not in the Known Bugs, that account should be killed, permanently banned. I'm a firm believer that.
My thoughts exactly, great video Vlhadus. I don't think perma bans should be handed out but as you said they need to be held accountable if continuing to dupe after reporting or doing it without reporting.
Just ban the entire guild. Wholesale. Blizzard banned entire guilds for Raid exploits during Raid to World First. These people are not ruining a raid race, they are trying - actively - to ruin the game.
finding and fixing the dupes is what the alpha is for!, mark their account and watch them in future those who exploit
I put this exact thing on X. What we are also testing is Intrepid's response to cheating. So far I'm not too encouraged.
encouraged in what way? how many people have actually been cheating? Or are they just better than you? i haven't seen any cheaters and i haven't heard of any cheaters until this "dupe" cheat. so i mean. so what you will. just another clueless keyboard warrior.
Funny that you are argueing against Exploiters that much (rightfully so) but you host a tournament with a guy that literally openly admits, that he and his guild will exploit as much as possible and will abuse every exploit they stumble on and is proud of it. KEKW
Just to be clear before I begin my rant. I myself discovered 2 seperate duplication glitches, one this weekend and one in the weekend before. When I am done testing a dupe glitch I stop using it immediately, because my goal is to test, not gain an advantage on everyone else. The first glitch I discovered was only shared with one person, so he could figure out how to repeat it, because I didn't wanna try myself. In general we were just having fun in our guild and doing random shenanigans such as the usual steering a horse into water, landrafts, packing materials, testing beacons etc. There was probably around 10 people in our circle who learned of the duplication glitch, when we learned how to properly repeat it on a sunday, and it was very difficult to do and it was fixed before the next weekend. Every person in this circle had the chance to dupe if they wanted to for a few hours, but everyone agreed that they prefer the authentic experience and acting in good faith. Thus I can confidently say that the first duplication glitch never left our circle and was never abused by us to my knowledge.
Then the second week comes around, I wanted to gather all my materials from Halcyon and Winstead and put them in Miraleth. I took all my materials from Halcyon and headed to Winstead. In Winstead I double check that I had emptied everything everywhere and I became arund 70% sure that I might have duped my shit. Went back to Halcyon and realised I could dupe consistently by doing it 2-3 times. There was also a way to avoid duping and began /bugging everything as I went along. A lot of alarms went off here in my head, because servers had only been up for 7 hours, the steps were very simple and anyone could do it by mistake. I didn't even try to test the inventory system to learn about this. I just realised I had more rubys than I expected.
Realising this was the first day I decided to go radio silent to anyone I knew about the bug. Only thing my friends and guildies knew was that there was another dupe bug. I didn't even tell them where it could be done or what was being duped, only that it was very easy to do and I was contacting a community manager active at that point directly and I believe they read my messages fairly quick. 12 hours later, servers were on an individual basis taken down for maintenance. I assumed this was to patch the exact bug and they were gonna repair my inventory as I was getting asked further details about the bug at the same time. I might've let it slip, which NPC was in question, but also because I knew there was a potential my guildmates could've deleted their items earlier. After maintenance was done I could still replicate the bug and of course I let my contact know immediately that it was still possible, in which they assured me they were working on it.
7 hours later we have the bug hunt forum and I believe a method were disclosed, which shouldn't have been shared. Funny enough the method in the forum was actually completely seperate. With the forum they also asked for a video so I sent a video privately to the community manager, although 4 hours late because i didn't really read the news properly the first time. Given that I had disclosed the location to my guildies some might've been keeping a better eye and also learned how to do it. The method was never shared in the guild, only the location and we had a strong policy to keep it that way and by the end around 5-7 people knew how. Thus I can proudly say that while we discovered the duplication glitches very early, our guild have never abused them to gain an unfair advantage with them and have done our best effort to report them without sharing them needlessly.
So getting on to my POV on that a lot of people have managed to dupe and the ethical dilemma:
First of all. Nearly every duping glitch was also a deleting glitch. For people unaware of the bug there is just as big a chance that you move all the stuff from one inventory to the next and it gets deleted as it gets duplicated. It simply doesn't make sense to reprimand any of these people, who didn't know. And even if they did become aware of it at a later stage, you can ask yourself; "did I have 120 common rubies or 160?", because I knew I did sitting in Winstead and looking at my Halcyon inventory and asked myself that exact question. Further "did I have 800 glint or 2400 from farming from lvl 18-20?", when a lot different materials are distributed in different inventories, unsorted and uncounted it is very hard to keep track. I bet most people can't say how much glint they have in their storage if they were asked right now. Also at the end of the day does these questions even matter in the grand scheme for other players? Because I believe that anything that can be acquired within a few hours doesn't matter at all.
As for duping 100's of epic+ materials and/or gear of similar sums, using an exploit for serious amounts of gold or scamming people with invalid items there is absolutely no excuse. These people spent hours just to ruin the experience for everyone around them. They should absolutely be punished, but what about litteraly everyone who falls in between those acting entirely in bad faith and those acting in good faith? What about the the little guy who realised he was duping and got himself 5 extra gold for his Ebon Mare? Having grinded to lvl 20 and looted plenty of glint to do many 12 slot uncommon crates caravans myself, I don't care if that guy gets himself a little extra, even though he slightly cheated. Do I care about the guy who decided to craft himself a legendary tool with extra materials? Not really either, cause it is still a drop in the ocean of players on a server. I think I could even go as far as allow other people to dupe 20 legendary copper, before I begin drawing a line, because It doesn't impact me. I dont know for sure anyone who has exploited on my server, I suspect a few who decided to begin selling a lot of materials, but I can still believe that they could've gotten that stuff legit and thus I absolutely don't care about if they get reprimanded if they actually exploited.
I understand that people draw different lines for what they find acceptable and what they don't find acceptable, but I think we can all agree that there is a gray zone here where it is hard to ban people. The bottom line is also that acting in good faith and reporting game breaking bugs is more important than reprimanding, so let's focus on the good stuff and be thankful that it was discovered early and that Intrepid didn't decide to just close the servers and instead let us have fun this weekend. I am bad at using the word tester myself, but in the end we are testers, not players. Wave 1 is not about an authentic experience, it is about stability and this is a huge step in a good direction and I want every single exploiter last weekend to log in next week and see if they can exploit again, so we can smash the next exploit bug that they find. Intrepid can always ban them when they try to do it again in beta.
I also want to cover the idea of setting an example to other bad faith actors. The idea that if these dupers don't get banned, dupers will never report duping glitches when they discover them so they can abuse them later or as soon as they discover a dupe, they will abuse it as much as possible. If these bad faith actors gets banned for sure, the others will get the right idea.
I don't agree with this idea either because first and foremost it is feudal, oppressive and has shown that it rarely works in large scale communities. The only real benefit is that those they wronged can get a fleeting satisfaction of justice. If we truly want them to stop we should try to instead educate them and let them know that they won't forever be welcome if they don't get their act together. Let it be known that player xxxx is duping and don't let him in the guild, party up or trade with him. Of course we forget with time, but we should also forgive them with time and until then, let them hold the cross for everyone to see. It is also way healthier if the community builds the rules themselves rather than an expensive justice system forcing them on us. We have already seen on multiple occassions where guilds, who harrass others get unpopular on the server and gets reprimanded by other guilds. We build the world, including the rules and only when everything goes off the rails, should Intrepid intervene.
In this case, ethics are clearly not off the rails, just the materials. So Intrepid should only deal with the materials. We know the names, let them be KOS and they might even stop playing voluntarily. This ain't about justice, it's about creating a better environment, where actions have consequences. Do you want to risk duping where you lose the items anyway when it gets reported and be known as the duper? In the end this is the exact same dilemma as to whether people killing newbies should be reprimanded. If it doesn't sit right with you that player xxxx is killing newbies and getting extremely corrupted, then go kill him yourself a few times. It'll probably set him back as much as a 1 day ban would do anyway. We can just as easily embargo dupers, if we really want to, especially knowing that at some point the items probably will get deleted anyway. The reason that level 1-5's got protected was because we as a community failed to protect them and it got out of hand and Intrepid had to intervene, exactly a situation where things got out of hand.
Anyway that is my take on it and I fully accept that Intrepid can decide to ban no one or they can ban every single tester, which knowingly benefitted even a tiny amount from it, because at the end of the day, the ToS were clear, a lot of people broke them and Intrepid can enforce the ToS as much as they please.
Also about the point of knowing who did duping based on ids sounds a little insane to me. First of all we already know that we are dealing with a distributed system. There is no single DBMS that is handling everything, meaning that if one item is moved from one inventory from another, it is essentially removed from one system and inserted into another serverside. Another point is that to keep track of every single item and how they are moved/edited etc., they would need to create a new record of the item, a row in their table of items everytime it is updated such as moving it 1 tile in the inventory, increasing the stack size, moving it into another inventory. Assuming that they did have a record of every state of the item, then they would also need to search the records. I assume something similar to seeing that 3 identical items were added in quick succession. That's a lot of searching they need to do on a pr. player basis, which is also computionally heavy. So I absolutely don't believe they can do this automatically. They can probably review it manually, by tracing individual time, but that is extremely tedious and waste of time in a darn alpha.
There are plenty of optimizations they can do for data-intesive systems, but that is wasteful to already implement now, while they are still expecting to make schema changes.
What I hope they do in regards to fixing the current state of the realms, is that they slot in backups from before this weekend. Remember they only need to do wipes on larger schema changes and for progression testing purposes.
I don't agree that this is a grey area. Its easy to ban. There is a TOS that everybody agreed to. It is very cut and dry.
We might be helping test the game, but this is also a lot of folks first chances to try out a project they helped fund. Be that kickstarter, slacker backer, or just buying into the alpha, this is the first few weeks of play for super users. You have a server that is effectively a botched experience for those involved. Even if this is a temporary service, its still going to affect peoples opinions going forward.
As for the logging, it's going to be hard to assume anything related to transaction logs or what data Intrepid might be holding on to on the backside. I have to imagine a lot of the data services they've boasted about in the fact are a little exaggerated, but we still don't know to what degree of an easy or extensive task it would be to recognize the duplicated assets. Assuming it would be computationally heavy to try and identify the relationship between inventory data tables spread across horizontally scaled systems may be correct, but it may also be much easier than we know. Hard to tell without looking at their data collection.
@@Bribzy They have a ToS in Alpha? hahahaha. How on earth do they already know their ToS when they haven't even tested the systems that implement ToS yet.
Our guild found Chest that we could get no problem. just semi AFK and collect every minute. We reported it as, getting 4k XP and 20 Glint seemed a little broken. now chest can't be open at all.
Love that we found dupe bugs already that won't make it to Release. Big W.
Also, those bows were not duped. Novice tier items are so trash that it tricked everyone into thinking crafting isn't worth it. Crafting is overpowered as hell in this game, and those bows are proof. If you know, you know.
Looking forward to doing the same exact thing in Phase 2 : )
Rofl. You're doing an event with Crix? I bet Enveus people had serious mixed feelings about this video, especially when you called them pieces of crap.
Ban the abusers. If they want back in, they can make a new account.
100%
account ban seems to much considering alpha, maybe just wipe the character so they have to start again
Isn't the WHOLE point of an Alpha Test to discover bugs? How you gonna ban people for abusing bugs that they are supposed to find? I really don't get it.
The problem here is how people are playing an ALPHA TEST competitively. That's not the point at all.
@@Rorther If someone bug reports it after seeing it happen to them, that's one thing. If that person then purposefully continues to abuse that bug, that is completely different. A slap on the wrist now just means future slaps on the wrists. If an outright ban is too harsh for Inteprid, then wiping all those abusers' characters would be fine. It just depends on what precedent Intrepid wants to set.
@@NKBrilloYT How i'm supposed to know if its a bug or not, if i can't test it further, to see in which condition it happens and which it doesnt happen? Getting banned for BUG ABUSING on Alpha is straight a mistake.
I'm glad the duping happened, it lets them improve their monitoring, and we are going to get wiped anyways, so, who cares, as long as the bug gets fixed and they take the opportunity to better track the providence of items to detect duping bugs automatically
Good call. I hope as much exploited gear/gold can be removed as possible. Sure it's a wipe soon, but it still ruins 1 month of "authentic" play.
Does every item has *unique* ID? Because if so, automatic system that removes dupes should be pretty easy to implement. Unless the dupe generates completely new item.. then it's whole another story. Anyway it's a shame that some people do not understand alpha and beta stages, but I guess it's not only the game that can grow during that period. Let's hope they get a lesson, learn from it and become better before release :)
I'm glad that competitive playing means nothing to me for a very long time.
If people have x number of duped items on them, strip them naked, take all gold/glint away duped or not.
Those bows in ur thumbnails are LEGITIMATE. Intrepid is aware of how they were crafted. There is in fact a dupe thing going around. But those legendary magic bows were not a dupe. I can 100% guarantee you that
I'm thinking -10 levels for anyone hoarding duped items. If they were greedy enough to try to dupe level 20 gear, they can sit at level 10 gear for a while and think about it.
i was thinking ban till phase 2 minimum cause it sets a precedent
It would be nice if they were held accountable. But I would rather have their employees working on making the game better than going through accounts looking for dupers and deleting their stuff. I hope they get it under control by the time Wave 2 rolls in, but we all know everything will be wiped then, so until then I just want the devs focusing entirely on fixing bugs, making the Archetypes solid, and making the servers as top tier as possible. We all knew this could/would happen eventually. Just be glad it happened now, and not later (like you mentioned earlier). Just my 2 cents.
No drama really, best to uncover them now than at launch like what happened in new world. There is also a wipe in a few weeks so all the items and gold will be wiped
100% agree. Exploiters are pieces of crap. Kind of hypocritical though that you are doing a PVP event with a guy from one of the biggest exploitative gills. You know you have seen all of their War / Guild dropping exploit drama.
Remove all gear on character, and gold plus materials, then de level 5 levels.
Just believe in Steven!! We need the word of gospel from Steven the Savior of MMORPG genre!! Steven will cleanse the sins of the MMORPG genre!! Just believe in his prophecy!! On his visions!!
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Steven needs to kill all duping bugs fast, it will kill the game.
They legit fixed it the next day. I don’t know why people are calling Steven out for stuff he and his team already fixed, that’s wild to me. They are doing a good job and it’s an alpha 😂
thats the point of alpha........ like what ???
The bug was squashed before this video, this post, or public knowledge of the dupe was mainstream. AoC management is doing a great job. People finding out about this late just have no knowledge of what is going on in real time and jumping to conclusions when they really shouldn't. Jerk reactions from out of touch players saying crazy stuff kills games too. Mind your tongues if you haven't checked AoC official discords before you speak ill of the company. Steven posted yesterday at 9pm EST about dealing with dupers and it was fixed in PTR sooner than that post.
Better to have this shit in the open and get it fixed than keep it a secret and ruin the game. The reason you exploit and tell everyone how to do it, is so that it gets fixed faster. That being said, Intrepid has a certain development cadence, and if they get too distracted with these things during the wrong phase, proper attention might not happen for things they are actively working on, like server testing.
whats up man what guild are you in?
I think he and Richie are in Ignorance is BiS on vyra. could be wrong though.
I dont care about item integrity in an alpha that in 4 weeks gets wiped anyway as long as those bugs get reported.
*They have SoL's Eye, anyone with duped shit gets perma'd.*
Imagine getting your level 25 character deleted cuz you duped last weekend lmao 😂😂😂
Not an issue, wipe coming December 20th. PTS fixed it. Hopefully they make a list of all the people that didn't report it and took advantage of it. No ban but, a warning 1 of 3 on the way to a ban.
Also, we need these people here in testing specifically to contribute to try to break and exploit the game. Give their accounts a Scarlett letter, sure... But we all benefit from them identifying these things now during testing.
Spoke like you took advantage of the dupe. Anyone who doesn't want a wipe means they duped and benefited from the dupe.
@IzNebula 'unfortunately' not, had I known about it, it would have been real hard not to dupe up some copper though! 25 hours of playing so far and I've only ever found 4 nodes... :(
But seriously, better to find these things now. No one wants another New World.
this is literally what the alpha is for, the game isn't even live.
Some of you all talk as if you think that the game is live
I dont get it, this is supposed to happen, is an alpha, everyone is playing like the game is already out, now imagine that whoever found the glitch did not share the info?, on release(if we ever get it) he and only he would have been mayor for sure of the economic nodes, asuming it does not get fixed, the complains are not healthy I think just report the bugs and try to get an advantage of the rest of the server, game is not out yet, yes we want to have fun, but do not overwhelm the devs with Drama for a game in alpha, NO DRAMA, YES TO REPORTING BUGS, please....
Duping doesn't matter, they discovered it and will now fix it. Thats the point of all the play testing. And It realllllly doesn't matter because we're server wiping in like a few weeks.
They discovered ONE more will come people who do it with purpose and not just TESTING/Bug Finding need to be made an example of period. We have all seen too many games ruined because of it.
Spoken like a duper 😂
@@APG34 Well atleast they know about it, imagine if no one reported it and it made its way to the full game. Better to trial by fire this right now. And again, we have like 3 weeks until its wiped. Or just about 6 days of play time.
@@APG34 People will do anything to have an advantage in a video game. It's why people cheat. There will be exploits players will take advantage of and not report it to take advantage of it during launch. People will pay handsomely for these exploits too. It's why Playstation has an exploit bounty hunter program to stop people from jailbreaking their systems. There's no advantage for them spilling the beans, and they have every advantage when it comes out.
It's alpha....
Alphas are not meant to be played in a natural environment. You're suppose to push boundaries in an Alpha that's the whole point of testing. They might aswell release the game right now if they don't want people finding bugs and exploiting them. Due to intrepid charging for this alpha, it seems to have convoluted a lot of peoples minds and made them think AoC is a finished product you can't ban someone for going against ToS in an alpha because alpha is how you refine your ToS.
It's Alpha. People need to stop worrying as if it's a release. Better to find and fix now, rather then in 1.0 release.
lmao punishments for alpha, rotfl
Found the sucker
Proves you don’t care about the future of the game… clown
hiding it is in the hopes that it stays in the game
considering you have to pay 125 just to test the alpha, people should be allowed to test the gear, not sure how they are "pieces of crap" for playing what is essentially an alpha and wanting to limit test by getting the best gear. The author even says "it doesn't really matter" and in fact, it doesn't so let them have their fun in a limited experience they payed an insane amount of money for.
You can be a piece of crap by duping the gear for a whole guild and then that guild kills anyone they want on the server destroying the experience for other people, introducing negative feedback simply because they are overpowered by overusing the bug. All people paid a minimum of 120$ to join, and being pk by high lvl people just because they have 200 legendary bows now and they don't care about the karma is not a positive experience and might lose you testers in the long run. If you have any morals after you find a dupe and test it to see how to do it , you report the bug and then delete de duped items.
@ then everyone should get a duped item, it’s a 120 dollar alpha, everyone probably deserves a duped legendary by the end of it or they really didn’t get their moneys worth.
The entire game was doing it.... can't punish them all! It's also like a nuclear bomb. If you don't do it, everyone else definitely is. So you're just screwing yourself like a dummy.
ITS ALPHA, WHO CARES???