the problem with splinter | asian representation in tmnt
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- Опубліковано 24 чер 2024
- we've got some stuff to discuss, but let's go over them together. 🐭
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🎵 Music used:
Bigby's Apartment (The Wolf Among Us, 2013)
INTRO: 00:00
THE ORIGINS OF ANTI-ASIAN RACISM: 01:16
THE HISTORY OF ASIAN REPRESENTATION: 03:10
THE PROBLEM WITH SPLINTER: 06:50
OUTRO: 14:33 - Фільми й анімація
As an Asian lives in Asia, i did laugh at the rat joke in Rise movie. I take it as Splinter now completely comfortable in his rat skin. But as you put it into the Asian-American immigrants context, i can really see why would that be uncomfortable for many. Thank you for the in-depth vid!
Ok so I'm not the only one just now knowing about the eating rats thing thanks to this video.
I thought it was dogs but ok rats too. All right.
History...it got shit no one talks about anymore.
Yet this cartoon knows about it and makes jokes about it. 😩 Ugh now I'm going to be paranoia what else is going over my head with everything else I watch because I'm too young to understand reference/ didn't hear it or remembered it in history class.
I didn't learn about it through History either. It's through stories from my parents and also from traveling.
There're many opinions on it in between Asians people. For me, I just see it as simple as circle of life, like some catching fishes cuz it's abundant in their area/region, some catching filed mice or rats. Of course they prepare them like any other meats before cooking if they don't want to have health problems lmao.
Big no no with eating dogs and cats thou, not because they are superior, but because their relationship with human in this day and age is hugely difference (as pets/ family members, other kind of pets are no no too) from before. It's a complex topic so I'll stop here.
But back to the first point. It's totally ok learning stuffs from outside of what you were taught. It's a great thing actually. Keep on learning and relearning~
@Linh Vũ You are never to old to learn something new
I, born and raised in Chile and fully Chilean by blood, took it as a nod to when Splinter ate a rat in the comics. Yeah, that was fucking messed up.
@@juanrisa945
😐...the comics are Soo dark. I'm glad I mostly know TMNT from the movies and cartoons.
7:35 I like how a lot of fans now head canon the turtles as Blasian (more specifically Afro-Japanese)
yeah, mainly 03, 12, and 18 tmnt fans headcanon the turtles as Afro-Japanese because of the African-American and Japanese elements/characterizations the turtles have.
And recently in the official comics, they were also drawns as Blasian so its technically canon now ❤️ (saw it insta)
I like this a lot too
Rise Mikey and Raph both have black voice actors, so they'd definitely be black.
@@noxiean i guess Italian too since they're canonically Italian with their names and the fact they like pizza.
This was a super insightful video and helped put a different perspective on things that I, as a white viewer, missed while watching. When I saw the rat eating comment in the movie my first thought went to "haha they lived in sewers and ate rats to survive", so hearing the history behind why things like that can be percieved in two entitely different ways was a huge learning point for me. Anyways thank you for yet another wonderful video on my (our?) autistic hyperfixation, each one you post is a great discussion and I always leave feeling like I have a better understanding of rise.
🤓
@@cartoonleeches4820 bye
it's really interesting how, because of history, two people are going to see the same piece of media wildly different. Like you said in your comment, the rat joke reads very differently to a non-asian audience member as opposed to an asian audience member, which I think goes to show how we should talk to the people who we're trying to represent in media more often (not that it would fix everything, but it would be a good step forward)
@@projectcookie12 I don’t even know you.
@@cartoonleeches4820 "🤓" 🤓
Personally Rise Splinter is my favorite. He feels like he has the most character to him and he's the least stereotype of an Asian martial arts master. His story feels very distinctly American Japanese rather than from mainland Japan which was an interesting direction that the crew took. I think it paid off.
Asian American culture is separate from the cultures in Asia, which I also think is nice to see represented in a good way. Clearly, because they are American producers they are much better equipped to tell that story.
what are your thoughts, heybuwan?
Hi, thanks for watching and thanks for your thoughts! As I said, I plan to expand on why I actually really like Rise Splinter the most in another video (since these both ended up being a lot longer than I expected lol), but overall yes I really like the way that Rise's Splinter really broke the stereotype mold and showed a very different story to the one we're used to. I think the decision to make him a martial arts movie star was surprisingly well done and I think there's a lot to say about this version being, ironically, the biggest commentary on Asian discrimination in Hollywood. I know he has problems, but this Splinter is by far my favorite one (next to the 2012 one) because there's obviously a lot of love and care put into his story and growth. We just have to keep heading in this direction. 💚🐭
@@heybuwan love your vids. I shall be waiting for as long as it takes!
May ya'lls days be void of stress and your nights be full of rest.
@@heybuwan ps
your videos are really high quality but the thumbnail makes it look like it's gonna be a shitpost and it's hilarious LMAOO
this happens with every video it's like a super in depth analysis and then the title is something like "rise is amazing you guys are just mean"
So, I noticed a few people say that this video made them uncomfortable and I'm here to tell y'all something: It's perfectly healthy and needed sometimes to feel uncomfortable. Being uncomfortable/disturbed is not a great feeling, I get it. But sometimes you need it in order to learn from a perspective different from your own. To judge what you will and will not stand up for. So yeah, get uncomfortable, dude 💙
Is it still okay to enjoy the aspects of Splinter and the TMNT franchise that she mentioned in the video above?
Is it okay to still enjoy problematic media while recognizing and acknowledging their flaws?
Yeah the blue heart emoji that i can never find or i have and i never wanna recheck
@@jackcapellini113 Absolutely.
@@hybridvenom9 type “blue” in the emoji search thingy
I saw a lot of people on Tik Tok calling Rise Splinter's design racist but never explaining why. I'm Costa Rican, so I never actually saw that kind of posters or caricatures, so I was extremely confused (and somewhat guilty because I really like the design as being short and fat instead of the overused elegant and lean ninja master, reminds me of my dad). You gave context, good historical references and put it into words in a great way!! Now I'm better informed, thank you!
That's why I personally never use Tik Tok. A lot of the people on there try to point out a problem and blame a culprit without actually presenting much evidence or explaining the issue. It's easy for things to either be blown out of proportion or misinformed on there.
Better informed or easily agreeable?
@@lexyshannon9428 just like this vid
@@thomasrose2149 what do you mean?
@@thomasrose2149 I'm a little confused about what you mean by that, but I already have if that helps 😅
As a black person I really loved the fact that the turtles in rise were being voiced by black ppl. It just made me really happy to see some of my favorite characters be black. Though after watching this video, I do now also question why the turtles were/are rarely ever voiced by asian ppl. Thank you for informing me about these issues!
probably because the turtles are canonically ITALIAN, not black or Japanese. No way am I saying black VAs for them are a terrible thing, but I was answering yout question and confusion. They're Italian. Italian names and even the pizza thing, while being from New York.
@@finland4ever55 Damm, italian? Always thought they was American.
@@MikeWazoosky I would go with Italian American
@@davidcaldwell4916 Lol my father always told me they was italian because of the names. Idk why but i didn't believe him.
@@finland4ever55 no?? im pretty sure those names were just to be funny and I'm pretty sure the name Leonardo is French.
You mentioned something I've questioned about TMNT voice casting, which is why they don't ever cast Asian actors to voice the turtles. I find it kinda weird that it never happens. Leo is voiced by Brian Tochi (who is also one of the few Asian actors in Avatar) in the original live action films, but the only other time an asian actor plays a turtles is in Batman vs TMNT where Leo is voiced by Eric Bauza, who also plays Rise Splinter. I don't know why anyone thinks about that when casting.
Also, very curious if you prefer Splinter starting out as rat or as a human before being mutated?
I actually didn't realize he was Leo in the Batman vs TMNT movie! That's cool at least, I guess another tick in our favor. I prefer Splinter being human first because I just happen to like that narratively a lot more! I think it has a heavier impact on his character and the growth feels more satisfying.
I always assumed it was because the Turtles were always born and raised in New York. In every iteration of the backstory, they were found by dumb luck in New York (pet shop or just being pets), and were raised by Master Splinter. So it actually makes sense that the turtles themselves don’t need to be Asian, as they are born in America. I always saw the family dynamic it as an Asian immigrant who adopts 4 random children because they have nowhere else to go. This would mean that the 4 turtles can be interchangeable on what race they are, especially if you add in what type of turtle they are. This also adds to the narrative that culture isn’t specific to one race and anyone can learn and respect others cultures. There are villains that go against those cultures and disrespect it or perverse it in their own ways (Shredder perverses the culture, there was a human who mocked it without trying to be because he wanted to “fit in” without taking proper steps to actually learn them, and then splinter himself who is a rat, watching the culture from the outside and doing his best to imitate what he sees, but not understanding what the culture actually is). That’s actually what I want explained for master splintered. He’s not just an Asian caricature. Depending on the backstory, Splinter is just as much an outsider to the culture as us, and he’s only imitating what he has seen from his masters and so on. I would LOVE for a TMNT to explore this and have Splinter confront that aspect of himself, that he claims to be a master of martial arts and understanding of the culture only to finally meet with an actual Asian character and sees that what he knows is all in movies and that their culture isn’t like that at all. It would give splinter a flawed character and allow him to grow with his sons past this. It would allow him to lighten up with his son’s shenanigans while still being a stern father when needed. It can also be why Shredder hates him so much too. For both of them, they see each other as a mockery to who they are, not realizing that they both are a kind of mockery. Idk I just think it’s a cool idea.
@@xhaterkillerx I don't think you mean for your statement to sound like this, but don't use "they are born in America" to justify why the turtles wouldn't be Asian. We are Americans too. And I'm not asking people to _only_ make the turtles Asian. I'm pointing out that even though TMNT uses Asian and Black culture in every work, we're rarely given the opportunity to actually be a part of that portrayal. When I mention the turtles being non-Asian doesn't bother me in Rise, it's because Rise finally allowed minorities to be a part of the frontline in this production. The times I have an issue with it is when it's all white people and maybe one Asian guy (who gets to be the villain). TMNT presenting an interracial family isn't the issue. It's that TMNT owes a lot of its foundations to the people that it refused to acknowledge until very recently.
@@heybuwan I’m also Asian and Mexican, so a mix. My statement is that in America, you can be any race, any religion, any sexuality, any profession you want to be because that is the original core idea of America. We are a crock pot of different things and so because of that, the turtles can be whatever they want to be because of the fact they are born in America. Splintered doesn’t have that freedom because his backstory is rooted in him being from the eastern hemisphere, more specifically Japan, so he would always have that criteria of being an Asian character. For the turtles, they are born in America so their race, nationality, and sexuality can be whatever the narrative asks of them, and I find that beautiful. That just opens up the door to various iterations of the turtles that aren’t just white guys. You need to stop finding key words and just take a moment to read the entire thing sometimes. I myself need a reread just to make sure, because in text I know it’s hard to see the tone that someone makes, and I have made that mistake many times before. But I had hoped that my enthusiasm in my previous comment had portrayed that I was trying to show that the turtles can be whoever they want to be. I’m not saying the turtles need to be an entire white cast, I was actually eluding to the opposite. That they aren’t restricted anymore to be just this, and that Rise opened the doors for them to experiment with who they are. I don’t know why “they are born in America” is such a weird statement, I just stated a fact. You can’t portray certain voices or people in some countries because of their inherent racism or hate towards them. You can’t portray even a hint of gay or woke stuff in many countries because being gay is a sin over there and can possibly lead to death. So for all the problems that America has right now and is facing, we are still doing better off than those places. Also don’t forget that some counties they still don’t allow women any rights, freedom, or any say in any matter. I try to see the bright side of what we have while acknowledging and fighting against the bads we have currently. I think some people have forgotten the goods that we have, and only focus on the bad.
Ps my original statement was in response to the original poster and they wanted to know why the main turtle cast isn’t a full asian cast, and like I said if we only made them asian because of the ninja aesthetic, that in itself is a little racist don’t you think? Also it’s a spit on the face to Americans because of the cultural background, like changing the black kid in karate kid to an Asian kid instead because it’s inherently an Asian film. I would also like to ask you this; would you have said anything if I had phrased it like this, “They are born in America, so they don’t have to be white.”
The Turtles themselves only have been half-Japanese at best when it comes to biology. Sometimes, they lack human dna completely or they just don’t know or replicate the Japanese tongue.
THANK YOU I felt SO weird about Splinter because of his whole rat thing came from, but I brushed it off as "eeeeeh............ I'll give them the benefit of the doubt" etc. I really enjoyed this video, one Asian person to another, and I love that you pointed out a lot of the weird stuff in Mulan and Aladdin too, because everyone around me seems to completely glance away from that...
Also, something else from Rise: Karai is played by a Singaporean, despite being one of Splinter's ancestors, and was even the one who said "anatawa hitorijanai". I think she and Splinter should've been played by Japanese VAs.
Also I need to say that wasn't Raya the Last Dragon directed by a Southeast Asian? I remember my school went insane about our alumni being a very important role in there... only to be ultra-disappointed.
I'm Chinese Malaysian, and I'm also very glad that you decided to include us (Southeast Asians) when discussing east Asian stuff!
Hi, thanks so much for watching! Raya and the Last Dragon was directed by Carlos Lopez Estrada (Mexican) and Don Hall (white), and the story was done by 8 people, only 2 of which were Asian (Adele Lim and Qui Nguyen). It's a shame because I was SO excited for that movie (I'm part SEA myself) and was so disappointed in it. Also I didn't know about Karai, but yes I definitely agree they both should've been played by Japanese VAs! But I guess, like I said, at this point I'm just glad they're Asian now lmao
Yeah there’s a lot of things that haven’t aged well in almost every movie involving that stuff
semi-irrelevant to your comment, but i'm chinese-malaysian as well!! i'm an american citizen, but my mom's from georgetown and my dad from KL.
Opening this vid made me very warry
I definitely have felt a lot of what youve said with how we're always seen as fairy tale creatures and how the stereotypes are just _so_ grossly outdated
I didn't want to have to face it in my favorite show
I just wanted to ignore it..
So I'm so happy you made this video. It needed to be said!!
My one wish is to have more asian characters in rise with MODERN culture
Keep the stereotypes and the "honor" and the "mystical ancestry" and the martial arts. now give us REAL representation to balance it out.
For being an asian - (I grew up in the U.S, my parents don’t really teach me much of my own cultures so it’ll explain how I didn’t notice much. I’ve really only been taught of my language too.) - its funny how I didn’t even notice splinters looks being racist 💀
It’s nice how you point things out and give out explanations/representations (or whatever you would call it) of these shows or stories. Just wanna thank you for that :)
edit : I’m currently near the end of the video, and honestly, you’re correct on the fact that people *still* assume the fact of asians eating… stuff such as what you said. I get asked that A LOT whenever I correct them that I am not hispanic (People assume I am without even questioning my race 💀), like someone will call me hispanic and I will correct them by saying “Oh, I’m asian actually.” then they’ll process that fact into their mind and ask the stupidest questions ever. The one I will get NON-STOP is “do you eat cat and dog?” ……
anyways yeah.
edit (12-23-22) : Its really nice to see everyone else agreeing or people who still or have experienced this! :) Its hilarious too tbh. Remember, nobody here is alone
I experienced this too!
Not the hispanic part, but people have asked (accused) if I was white or mixed. The blatant rudeness of these questions are often normalized. The fact that I used to live in an all black and white school didnt help either. Kids would always look at me whenever WWII was mentioned despite the fact that I repeatedly told everyone that I was korean and not every other nationality under the sun.
These stereotypes being pointed out is great and can lead us to a greater future (as cheesy as it sounds)
Ive often been assumed to be native 😭!
some people don't even know se asian people exist, its CRAZY
Sometimes I'm the first asian theyve seen in person. thats how important asian rep is in media!
As a mixed latino, it's really funny to hear that some people will assume Asian people are Hispanic at first glance. I've been mistaken as Filipino (by other Filipino ppl too) so many times lmao
@@Sol_eri brown people solidarity of confusing people 😭🤝
Another thing I like about Rise’s Splinter is that he reminds me of the Japanese film *Soshite Chichi No Naru* or “Like Father Like Son,” which explores Japan’s current shift in what being a father is.
Ugh autocorrect got me, it’s Soshite Chichi ni Naru
I'll have to check out that film, thank you for the rec!
I think this video raises the really good point that harmful racial stereotypes can be perpetuated in media without the creators actually intentionally being racist - the creators of rise or of 2012 tmnt weren't actively trying to perpetuate racism but they were influenced by the racist stereotypes that had been perpetuated throughout previous media. That's why, as you said, it's important to actually be aware of stereotypes and think about how certain portrayals may be interpreted.
On a vaguely related tangent as to how your context and background influences whether you pick things up, I'm mixed white/chinese and one thing I found really uncomfortable while watching ATLA, despite the fact that it's a very Asian-influenced TV series, was the portrayal of the prison warden in the Boiling Rock episode. Even though many ATLA characters are meant to be Asian, there are very few characters who have darker skintones (outside of the Water Tribe) or wider noses - most having the pale skin and delicate features typical of k-pop stars and East Asian beauty standards even though darker tans and wide/flat noses are quite common in people of Asian ethnicity. The fact that the villainous and ugly prison warden is one of the few Asian-coded characters that had a darker skintone and wider nose made me really uncomfortable because his appearance feels like a cariacature of my own relatives such as my grandfather or my older brother who have some of those features.
That's a very good point and I think a lot of it stems from the fact that AtLA is so heavily influenced by anime which... unfortunately does the same thing. Colorism and racism is still very rampant in East and SE Asian media and it's not widely known in the West yet, in my experience.
I am so happy to see someone finally addressing this directly!
Normally, criticism of media I enjoy makes me very wary, but this video essay actually opened my eyes a TON. I completely realize why conversations like this are important, especially when the themes of Rise are about inclusion, embracing differences, and community/family. As a white TMNT fan I didn’t flinch at the “rats are delicious” joke, to the degree I forgot about it completely and when it was played again in with new context, my jaw dropped. We need videos like this to start uncomfortable, but vital, conversations. Also the essay itself was just superbly written, you nailed this
Aw man, I need to be educated in other cultures more. Here where I live, it’s all about Afro, Hispanic, and Indigenous people that we learn about. I get that standing up to racism is a huge staple to where we are today, but it’s the little things we need to be careful of as well. I’ve been wired in such a way that anything that’s racist should be immediately seen as bad, and I’m a bad person. I didn’t think too hard about Rise Splinter because I heard it was still a fantastic show, and I never saw him as stereotypical, more like just a character who’s been through a rough patch in his life who just happened to be of Asian decent. Also noted that I also see way too many Asian comedians using a stereotype for the laughs and probably shouldn’t be the one judging because I’m not part of that culture. I may just be going on a tangent, but I’m just too confused with what is right and what is wrong.
Hi, thanks for watching! I can't speak for every Asian person (obv) and people are fully entitled to dislike Splinter or TMNT as a whole because of the undertones, it's fully understandable. It's also okay that people don't know about this stuff. That's part of why I made this video, because the racism that surrounds Asian people and how we're presented to the public is largely still invisible. Personally, I still love TMNT and Master Splinter and what I find most important is that we see progress. I believe that representation for Asian people is getting better overall! It doesn't have to be perfect yet, but talking about things like Splinter which still holds those old ideas to some degree helps us get that much closer. So don't think you're a bad person or anything for being ignorant, what matters is that we're learning and growing.
@@heybuwan Thank you. I greatly appreciate that someone is willing to treat me as a regular person instead of a creature who does this on purpose.
You are absolutely correct. Racial stereotypes often go way deeper than anyone might expect. To many, it can be very "small" things that they might not have noticed as outwardly harmful. This also ties into why I absolutely despise cancel culture, on another slight tangent, here. We all become so scared of either being "cancelled" or bringing people to justice that everyone involved fails to see the point of bringing the issue to light. Cancel culture is the worst response. What would really help more would be to understand how deep the roots of racism truly go, and to understand that people are human, and may not naturally recognize harmful stereotypes to others when they weren't directed at them. We really need to focus on understanding and educating one another rather than beating each other over the head for making a mistake.
As a half Japanese person with a Japanese mother I think the Rise version of Splinter is pretty accurate to how I grew up and to how my mum still acts
I'm arab and had some issues with Aladdin. Watching western animations depicting Asians has always made me curious how asian people feel about that. Thanks for this new insight. It's nice to finally see an Asian person share her thoughts on the depiction of Asians in western media.
The whole rat thing was shocking to me. When I heard it in the movie, I had just assumed that splinter said "we are delicious" because he himself is a rat and takes it as a compliment. I think a similar joke was done with the turtles, when meat sweats was talking about cooking them, and Mikey said "that sounds good!" But I can definitely see why that joke felt like a slap to the face for you now
you are not arab
@@toujoustudio uh, do you have any valid reasons to believe so? lol
@@kitsuujujitsuu4025 no, I’m Arabic and I cannot allow you having different thoughts than me. We must have a hive mind system my brother/sister. We both must like Aladdin and hate the throne of the crescent moon
@@toujoustudio right, because everyone knows that all arabs are actually a hive mind
@@kitsuujujitsuu4025 yes habibi :D lmao
Thank you so much for this video I saw mentions of it on Twitter but had only seen the surface level criticism. I think it's an important topic and now that the discussion is expanding outside of Twitter, Splinter might only get better with new, more informed, iterations
I’m really glad you made this video, I’ve seen a couple people mention this topic but the deep dive into it was v helpful. I felt weird about a lot of splinter moments in rise (which sucks bc in general I really like his characterization there) and this video gave me some context for all that.
I’m also glad you mentioned aladdin (I could write an essay on everything wrong with that movie), as someone who’s half arab I was super upset about the live action movie when it came out, like do better disney
IN GENERAL THO I LOVE THESE VIDEOS SO MUCH THANK YOU FOR FEEDING MY RISE HYPERFIXATION
As an Asian American person, who lives in the USA, i never got to really learn about my culture, and what kinds of stereotypes there are. Your video really made me think, and it taught me lots of new things. Thanks for uploading and feeding into my special interest lol!
“Were still fighting to be seen as more than this” THANK YOU! People forget we are still fighting. Its small issues overall but big for us. This video was so good thank you! 😭❤️
I hadn’t even realized, but I’ve seen all of your videos. You are just so well spoken and obviously do a lot of research on the topics you cover. Thank you so much for making these videos :7
That.. perfectly explains why I was always a bit uneased by the mere concept of Splinter's character in ways I couldnt quite grasp immediately as a white european. It was always obvious for me that Splinter is in his characters roots made from stereotypes to frankly bothersome degrees, but I always kinda accepted that in TMNT and tried looking further for what _else_ his character is, which as you said in TMNT2012 and Rise does get better than previous versions.
But still, I always had the feeling the problems with Splinter go much deeper bc everything about his character felt "somehow fitting as a cohesive picture by itself" which of course - as you explained - is because even him being mutated/"degraded" into a rat is rooted in offensive caricatures and racism.
Man, I 100% get that there are not just a few asian people who are not exactly keen on Splinter, the problems of his portrayal are impossible to overlook, it's right upfront in the viewers' faces. I do feel bad/disappointed in myself for having turned a blind eye towards this part of TMNT, a franchise I've been holding dear to me for several years now, even though I already noticed that something is just really NOT right about Splinter on more than just a stereotype level.
But I suppose that shows why this video you made is of such massive significance. I think I _definitely_ wont be the only TMNT fan who felt this way and I'm genuinely glad you forced me out of my comfort zone to confront the topic of Splinter I kinda avoided looking into because of my biased childhood nostalgia.
Thank you for making this video, I truly believe it will make a huge positive impact on alot of TMNT fans ^^
Part of the character is that being a rat is a massive demoralization for him he either overcomes or keeps struggling with. OG Splinter sees it as becoming just like his master and getting the chance to preserve their legacy. 80s Splinter would rather be a rat than lose the turtles.
I'm an Asian-American and I'm not bothered by Splinter... Neither are most Asian-American fans I've seen. I think the internet is making you think it's a bigger issue than it really is. Most Asians either don't care about TMNT, or enjoy it ar face value. It's more of a vocal minority that feels attacked by charactere like Splinter.
As someone half Asian, I kinda disagree about the point where everything Asian must be portrayed by Asians. As long as the person is careful, and well informed on the things they’re portraying, it doesn’t matter what race they are.
I don't think they're saying it *has* to be, but it's not a good thing that asian stories rarely get to be told by asian people/are not made with much collaboration with asian people
As a half Asian myself (half Filipino) I agree!
I agree with both of you as a non-Asian (African American)
Agreed, I’m Chinese Korean and Avatar is an amazing Asian inspired show created by white people
I'm Japanese Korean and I agree as well, but when putting on an accent I have always appreciated it when characters who have accents are voiced by people who are from that culture themselves. It's personally a little frustrating when people mimic the accent because it just leads to more people generalizing an accent that might be inaccurate, or have people who aren't from that culture say "But (actor name) did it!" when being criticized of mocking an accent. I've had this experience several times and it isn't very pleasant!
To add on, in Raya a lot of people were voicing concerns because South East Asians do not get this much positive spotlight and people were excited to see proper representation portrayed in the movie and have SEA actors and staff behind the scenes, an opportunity that most mainstream movies don't provide. However, the culture in Raya was of a fictional country loosely based off of a variety of cultures, and a majority of the people who profited from the movie were not even South East Asian. Heck, one of the main characters, the dragon who supposedly represented Raya's culture, was voiced by an East-Asian actress. Not only does this mean no actual South East Asians in this movie didn't get to be a significant part of this movie, but it also gave the impression that East Asian and South-East Asian cultures are "basically the same", an issue South East Asians struggle with.
SEA culture is, more often than not, overwritten by the Western curiosity and infatuation with East Asian culture and is almost always never explored in mainstream, and the casting of Raya is just another example of that. There are so many talented South East Asians in the world! The fact that the dragon was cast by another non-SEA person was just disappointing.
This is why as much as I'd love to agree that race shouldn't stop you from getting a role, I think this would only apply to roles such as the characters in Avatar where the characters are Asian-coded but speak in American accents and not for roles who carry sensitive stereotypes, especially through voice. I also think more non-white people should be seeked and given the opportunity to represent a character of their culture. I am terribly sorry for the very long and messy reply (to my defense it is 3am and I have had a long day but I apologize if it was hard to read nonetheless), and I appreciate it greatly if you took your time and energy to read this far.
As someone who was born in an East Asian country but was primarily raised as an American, I’ve had my views change throughout the years on racism and anti-Asian rhetoric portrayed in media from being completely defensive as I’ve had many racist instances while growing up to saying people are overreacting by the fact people from my home country saying that I was.
It’s even worse when my parents would say the same things about how I or other Asian people would be overreacting whenever I was a a kid getting stereotyped because I “probably ate dogs and cats” or if I “knew karate” (I’m Chinese lol), but with the recent pandemic I started to see a change in their views and other views from older generations of Asian people.
With the whole pandemic, there were of course a spike of hate crimes and my parents had that change of heart. Because it was happening to them and how they got more educated on how much this country has hated and will hate us, they ended up getting the idea of why some things felt uncomfortable to me. It echoed in a lot of other Asian parents around me which I found kinda interesting as they also carry a lot of the views people back from the their own countries have.
I mean, I was one of those people too. Though, we all need to realize as a population that there’s a difference between Asian-American and being from an Asian country. When people who aren’t either one gets into the conversation, one seems to just side with the other like, “well they’re asian and so they must be right and the other is just wrong.” Aka, usually seen when Asian people from their own countries that aren’t in America criticize Asian-Americans for Asian-American issues and sometimes vice versa (but that’s a whole other can of worms to talk about). It’s kinda stupid since I feel like these issues and arguments should be left to the people who are currently and have been effected by issues in the countries they inhabit. Especially when that country has that issue of racism that has been passed down through many many generations of different families.
And that my friend is the reason why poor Americans that came from Japanese desent were forced to go to camps
This discussion once reminded me of a talk I had with a friend who was born and raised in Japan; he is a HUGE Marvel fan, but when I told him about the news that Danny Rand will no longer have the iron fist title, with an Asian character taking over it, he was *FURIOUS* , like extremely furious, he liked Danny, and he was less than amused that the new iron fist would be another Asian guy who knows martial arts.
I've actually been thinking about this subject (at least in regard to mentor characters often being portrayed with these stereotypes even when they aren't asian) and it was really cool to hear your thoughts. Thanks for the video!
Had no idea about the rat stuff. I'm half Japanese half Romanian, living in Romania. Kids at our school thought my brother's Japanese surname sounded similar to the Romanian word for "rat", so that's what they'd call him. I'm sure those kids had no idea about "rat" specifically being a slur, but still. They were making fun of his name for being too foreign, even though they didn't even have to use it. He has 2 surnames for a reason!
Also, I'm surprised you're saying that "This is still a problem" as if you've made a lot of progress. I'm glad that the US is doing better, but Romania is still very far behind, and our push for better representation is not over until all the western world properly acknowledges us.
Another phenomenal video 😍💕💕💕 Amazingly worded and a great chance to learn. Adore the use of images/video *chef kiss* it really ties it all together nicely!
Thank you so much for addressing this in an easy to understand, knowledgeable way. I can't wait to see what your mind makes next 🥰
I really hope that, after Rise, we can get new iterations of TMNT that take more time to flesh out Splinter outside of being a stereotype/caricature for “general asian people” while still keeping some of his core traits that make him recognizable and admirable.
I don’t think the creators behind TMNT really meant to do harm by asian communities, especially Japanese fans, but you’re absolutely right that Splinters character is inadvertently harmful at best and racist at worst. I’m holding out hope that eventually we’ll get a Splinter that’s familiar enough without alienating asian fans.
Are Asian fans really so alienated by Splinter as a whole? I know Splinter is somewhat of a caricature but I've never actually encountered a TMNT fan who felt offended by him until this video. I'm speaking as an Asian-American myself, albeit Southeast Asian rather than Japanese.
Thank you for approaching this topic so well! This actually informed me on a lot of stuff- that rat joke before in the movie just completely went over my head (I’m kind of young so I didn’t know that “rat” was a derogatory term)
These videos are important cus they give you different perspectives on how media is perceived, my asian heritage is too disolved on my generation, I never lived in Asia and my only contact with it are in grandparents and uncles where it is still noticeable, and I'm always interested in knowing more about the world they have to live compared to me
The rat eat joke definitely went completely above my head, honestly I didn't even link it to them making a nudge at the idea that Spliter has eaten rat before, just as him dismissing the comment in a dark humor sort of way, but it's always good to spread this awareness, it's how we can grow as a more conscious more careful society on how we write stories and consume media
I don't know man. I'm Asian-American and I don't think I've ever met an Asian who would be offended by that comment. My younger relatives make lots of jokes about my family eating "weird" food, and we all just laugh with it. Is this issue with Splinter really as massive an issue to Asian-Americans as this video makes it out to be?
Since the original TMNT was inspired by the Daredevil comics, Splinter in turn is based on Stick, the man who trained Daredevil. Stick is a reincarnated soul of a Japanese hero in the body of a white man with blue eyes (albeit blind). I do like Daredevil and Stick, but man is that needlessly problematic.
Why is it problematic for someone to be reborn in another body, though? Buddhism and Hinduism teach that our souls move from one body to another, even crossing species and celestial levels. Is it difficult to believe that someone could have been another ethnicity in a previous life?
Thanks so much for this video! It's really insightful to see from perspectives of Asian-Americans and Asians living abroad in western countries. I think as an SEA born and bred citizen, many of these caricatures and messaging just flies over our head because we did not necessarily have any exposure about anti-Asian propaganda overseas. I really appreciated the point about media having a warped view and perspective of SEA culture and how it is used more like a tool for decoration instead of storytelling. Realising that Splinter's design is based on racist media (on purpose or not) has made me view TMNT in a more critical light. With this I think it's a good reminder to deconstruct media, especially if they have oriental undertones to them. Thanks so much for your wise insights!
Another really good video! I love listening to your video essays, they almost always give me something to think about and chew on, which is especially helpful since I study history!
When it comes to creating new media, it does really irritate me when voice actors who are just… generically Asian are hired for projects at random. My focus on history is mostly Western Europe, but even knowing that Europe has so many individual cultures and unique styles, and knowing that other continents have 10x the number of languages and individual cultures but never get the spotlight because a dude in England never wrote it down is… frustrating, to say the least. Asia alone as 2,300 languages, with 302 being from China. For comparison, Europe as a whole has 200 languages, with 24 official languages. To think that with that level of linguistic diversity alone that Asia in any way is a monolith is *insane*
I really would love for a movies based on SEA/EA culture in the future to be like how the movie Wolfwalkers is for me. My family is Irish, and to see a film that not only captures such a wonderful piece of Irish folklore in a new light and fusing it with Irish history was amazing to see, especially since Irish folklore has had a history of being swallowed up and/or demonized by English historiography. To have East Asian and South East Asian kids have their culture shown with that level of care and heart would be amazing. No kid should have to scrounge for scraps of representation
I was vaguely aware of some Asian stereotypes, but this video really helped put in perspective how heavily those stereotypes are leaned on in pretty much any representation of Asian culture, regardless of regional or even national differences. Asia itself has always kind of been treated as a Planet of Hats, and I look forward to media in the future that either comes from people who grew up in those cultures and can write stories with a deeper understanding of them, takes inspiration from them without using stereotypes and caricatures, or both.
AWESOME! You did another analysis! I just recently found your channel and binged all of your ROTMNT documentaries. I'm glad to see another and I'll watch this one too! Splinter's my favorite character in this (aside from Raph and Donnie) so this should be interesting.
Thank you so so much for making this video! Im E. Asian and I took such big problem with Rise's Splinter design and I felt like nobody understood me as to why so I really appreciate how this video breaks down why all of Splinter's character has been so harmful in the past, even as it's getting better. Really well done essay that I could show to my white friends without them being too confused lol. I never noticed the voice casting so Im super glad you brought that up too! This video gives me so much vindication and makes me feel seen thank u so much
I don't know. I've seen other Asian-Americans claiming Rise Splinter represented their older relatives fairly well. Maybe it depends on what family you're in? Rise Splinter didn't strike me as racist, and he vaguely reminded me of my grandma.
@@justjoe4390 Good point! I'm an adoptee into a white family, so I probably don't have as much say in this as I'd like to. Thanks for your insight! It's complex, for sure.
The bit about Asian people in roles that aren't their nationality made me think of how Randall Park keeps being cast as non-Korean characters, despite being of that descent. It personally makes me happy when the role and actor match. Less problems that way. Like how Brenda Song plays a Thai character in Amphibia, and so's her mother. Such a great thing to watch.
Hey uhhh. Not much I can say. But thank you for opening my eyes to this. And I wish the best of luck to all of you with representation. Let’s work together to create a more equal world for everyone
I enjoyed your video and am thankful for your insights. When you said that the stereotype of eastern people eating weird things leads to actual fatalities, that resonated with me because I have to keep reminding my friends that they can’t be making Jewish jokes and that the stereotypes of Jews being money hungry, dishonest, and ruling the world lead to actual, fatal, anti-Jewish violence that puts my family and me at risk. And I understand how tiring it can be to have only one aspect or narrative of your community re-created in media again and again. In addition to being Jewish, I’m also Mexican, and I’m so tired of the motorcycle-riding, tattooed, tough-guy, ghost-rider archetype that I see everywhere. This is only one subset of the Mexican community that lives mostly in specific parts of the southwest of America, but these images seem to have a death grip on the portrayal of Mexicans in our media. I really like this video because it brought up some topics that I’ve been thinking about lately. I know that animators often make designs with the purpose of sending certain signals to the audience about the character’s overall personality and role in the story - look at the difference in Mikey and Rafael's character design - but when the characters of the show happen to be not human, I know that animators often try to send cultural signals as well. I would say that this makes animated shows particularly vulnerable to passing along harmful stereotypes, but if we're being honest, live-action films do just as bad of a job of preventing the transmission of such stereotypes. Specifically, in animation and CGI work, though, without a top-notch casting director who prioritizes hiring voice actors that share the nationality of the characters that the story is portraying, animators often have to rely on line art, facial features, facial expressions, and body types to signal a character’s nationality. But the problem is that their reference sources often come from other pieces of modern media that, intentionally or unintentionally, used character designs from old racist caricatures or seemingly harmless but unchanging images of what certain nationalities and races look like. I believe that there are two solutions to this problem besides continuing to fight against racist and bigoted beliefs about minorities. As animators and producers of drawn or digital media, we need to break down what we think a particular nationality or race should look like when we draw them. Faces, body types, and skin colors are diverse, even among people of the same nationality or race. Sure, members of the same nationality or race can share common features, but as animators and costume and make-up designers, we should lean into the unique visual and aesthetic differences that make our characters who they are because, in this way, we will represent the broad visual and aesthetic differences that exist within minority communities. Encanto did a fabulous job with this, if you want an example. A character does not have to look a certain way for the audience to know their Colombian; we can tell them directly, show it through conversations, and show it through their environment. But in addition, the second solution to this problem is to present cultural identities in diverse settings and with diverse characters. While our culture and religion often intermingle into our lives in small and major ways, I believe that we should start to shy away from giving characters of certain races or nationalities the same interests, skills, and habits that we have given most characters of that same nationality or race. Not all Asian Americans do martial arts, not all Latinos speak Spanish, and not all members of an ethnic and religious group (like the Jewish People) worship by going to their house of prayer because, despite how our culture interacts with our lives, there is something to be said about the homology of the American and human experience. No matter what culture you are, as a young person, you're worried about your looks, you're thinking about the cute guys, girls, or people in your school, you're stressing over your classes, and you're dealing with family drama. One way that we can do this can be done is by showing more biracial and bi-ethnic characters like Miles Morales from Into The Spider-Verse. Like I said earlier, I am Mexican and Jewish, and these two cultures combine in my life to create a unique experience that is separate from someone who is fully Mexican or fully Jewish, but my experience still contains good portrayals of both cultures, and that’s what I want to see more of. In modern-day America, different races and nationalities are mixing together, and that should be accurately shown in our media. Finally, families of one nationality or race should be shown in more diverse ways. (Where is my African-American family that owns a lavender farm? Where’s my Filipino family that runs a Catholic church slash elementary school? And where’s my Greek family that runs a Mexican taco truck instead of a gyro truck? By presenting stories that feature characters of certain cultures in diverse settings, with diverse relationships to their cultures, and with diverse character designs, I believe not only can we make more enjoyable and inclusive media, but we can work more effectively at fighting against racism and prejudice.
I cannot lie. When I see a coin on the ground, I must pick it up. They’re just aspects we have to accept for ourselves. To manage and control for a grander path beyond our peers.
yes to this exaactly!
Great video! This is definitely something not enough people talk about, it was great hearing about it and learning more.
I believe you mentioned at some point that the rise cast has 2 Jewish actors - it actually has 3! Josh Brener (Donnie's VA), Ben Schwartz (Leo's VA) and Kate Graham (April's VA). Very cool
Oh cool! I didn't know that, she's a double threat here I guess lmao
Thank you for making this video! I recently got back into TMNT after having grown up with the 2012 cartoon, then spending years not being into it. Despite now approaching the series at a much older age, the implications of Splinter's character never crossed my mind. I understood that calling Asian people rats was a slur, but I still never connected the dots. Unfortunately, being white means you don't grow up with a constant othering (at least, not based on race you don't), and thus are often unintentionally ignorant to this kind of thing, ESPECIALLY when in regards to media that provides a sense of nostalgia. This is not a good thing!! Thinking critically is always important, even when consuming series often made for children.
I actually never knew American Dragon Jake Long was written by white men! Thinking back on it now, it seems all too obvious. I grew up with the show when I was much much younger, and I seriously think it could have benefitted from an Asian creator.
Again, thanks for making this video! I feel much better now that I realize TMNT's flaws and can think critically about them. You've been my go to UA-camr since getting into TMNT/Rise, your essays are very well put together and fun to watch. Keep up the great work!!
I think it’s worth pointing out that the original comic was a Dare Devil parody, and Splinter is supposed to be a direct reference to Sensei Stick, and The Foot was a joke on The Hand.
This video has opened me up to way of thinking about his representation in a way I hadn’t been. His behavior was molded after iconic martial arts mentors of the time, like Stick. I give them the benefit of the doubt in picking a rat as his depiction. I think that was moreso to go with the gritty sewer aesthetic, and don’t think Eastman and Laird carry negative bias.
This is written so well! And I love how it’s scripted! Amazing and quality work!
Hello! I haven't gotten the chance to fully get into Rise of the TMNT before but I have seen a few glimpses, and have watched full episodes of 2012's TMNT show in the past. As a half Japanese, fully Asian person born and raised consuming Canadian TV, I did feel a little bored from the "East Asian like martial arts! East Asian so diligent and wise!" trope, but I had never minded it as it was not a blatantly negative stereotype and admittedly Japanese rep is typically more positive than other cultural stereotypes.
This is why I was completely okay with 2012 Splinter's "sensei" archetype as though they never deviated too much from the trope to make him more three dimensional, it was nevertheless a not-negative stereotype of Japanese people and he wasn't as important as the turtles to pay that much attention to anyways. It was enough characterization for a character like him. However, I was... pretty shocked to say the least when I saw the stern, tall sensei become a short little rat man who sits on dirty couches and scratches his tummy in Rise. It was very off-putting!
Initially I dismissed it as my familiarity with Splinter's 2012 calm mentor persona being broken and that's why I was feeling shock, and that Rise did something unconventional and that I should be applauding them for breaking that Japanese sensei mold with Splinter instead! However looking back, I was and still am very uncomfortable with the fact that he is characterized to be stinky, irresponsible and loud while being one of the only main cast members looking and sounding very very clearly East Asian. Aside from the heavy accent and clothing, Rise Splinter has the chonmage-bun looking hair and the thin long eyes, which I haven't seen other TMNT versions have with their Splinter.
This video had really put a lot of thoughts and concerns I had about Rise in the back of my head in very well put together words and I'm really happy it was talked about! A lot of American history concerning stereotypes were also brought to light and I learned a lot, even from the East-Asian ones which I thought I knew a lot about. I do have to say, as much as I have been leaning on the negative issues Rise has with Splinter, I am aware it is a very good series with a lot more to offer and I am looking forward to seeing Splinter's character being developed more. I really just want to get into it for the animation though to be very honest. Thank you again for the video, I really hope more people become comfortable with talking about their favourite shows through a critical lense while still being able to enjoy it.
Thank you! Honestly yeah, my issue with the whole "Asian man does martial arts and is so wise!" thing is more out of frustration over a seeming lack of creativity. It's a fine enough character type and I enjoy plenty of characters who follow this trope, but when it's the go-to for every white writer who's writing their Token Asian Character, it starts feeling a little old is all. I by no means want people to stop making these characters, just to try and explore something else.
Also yeah I can see how his new design outside of his rat-ness can be frustrating as far as things like his eyes go. I personally gave it a pass because he still has a wide variety of expressions and full use of his face (unlike something like South Park or Family Guy where their faces literally do not move) but I can definitely see how his design would have to grow on you a little. I also didn't think about how him being the only one with a thick accent might be read as a bit insulting, I was just relieved that Rise was trying something totally new and that the actor was actually Asian this time around. (Since you haven't seen the full series, I'll try to spoil as little as I can!) I kinda feel like his accent played a little into his alternate persona, so I thought it was purposeful to make a (very subtle) statement about Asian erasure in America. Though from the beginning I can definitely see how it feels very off-putting, his personality is a HUGE source of contention in the fandom.
Overall I'm not particularly angry with any part of Splinter and at this point, I understand that he's a product of the time. I think every Asian TMNT fan goes in kinda knowing what we're getting into, but that doesn't mean we can't take the opportunity to teach people something new. If Splinter is still a wise old rat in the new versions, I'm still going to watch and enjoy it because there's still a lot of stuff to enjoy!
Yeah! It's just tiring to see when the only Asian rep in some shows is the "Sensei" character but it's definitely more of an issue with this being the only pattern I see rather than it being insulting. For Rise's Splinter, I initially didn't think his character change stemmed from racism and that I was just overreacting until watching your video and seeing the propaganda posters that America put out to fear monger against East Asians. As much as I assume that it wasn't meant to be intentionally racist, I think it does feed into the "imported sewer rat" image that East Asians were and in some places still are associated with and that's why people should be raising awareness of this.
Other than that, I do hear many positive things about this show and it looks like a very fun time! The characters definitely look like they have a lot to offer especially. If I ever do find the time (and streaming services), I'll definitely take the chance to sit back and treat myself to the wonderful character designs and animation.
@heybuwan
It mainly comes to the fact they can’t really think of anything offensive about Asians to give them specific quirks or flaws. Splinter being a rat is merely a coincidence because he himself was originally just the pet of his master. Rise Splinter is the one done with people that are more aware with Asian family dynamics and autistic children.
Well, to be honest the 2012 splinter is often considered the calmest and more fatherly one. Splinter has changed a lot through the different shows, and while he was still this master-like figure, the contrast is way more noticeable between 2012 and rise. If you had that idea of splinter, like I had, it is normal to be shocked.
Aside from that you can analyse the rise splinter all you want, but the change is often exaggerated. Evaluating the new splinter based on how different he is from others, specifically that one, can be misguided. Everyone has been different, so has been any other character. I believe to criticise and adaptation it should first be evaluated on its own, then maybe you could compare, but the main objective of a work is to stand by itself
I know this is supposed to be a serious topic, but when you said “That’s a white dude.” I laughed my butt off.
Thank you for pointing this out, i learned a few things today. I love Master Splinter and had no idea about the rat caricature tired to Japanese people.
Thank you for this! Really eye opening for someone who hasn't left Asia ever yet (so most discrimination ive known is like what [asian] race u are so generally the only thing that pops out to me usually is the monolithing and interchangeability) to see how innocuous things hit different with the weight of all that history behind it and to learn about splints in more relevant angles esp being 1st gen immigrant maybe he might've learnt those stereotypes firsthand too (and also learning about how deep that thing goes is Super Jarring and man I cannot imagine having all that denting the TMNT experience in a way that not everyone gets, like, oof indeed man)
thank you for making this! it's good to bring this to light, it's hard to do this since many people take offense for some reason.
I am SO glad this is finally brought up. I've always wondered why people are so crazy with racism towards black people but ignore racism towards all asian people in general. As a eurasian I got bullied for being half asian and having slanted eyes (it was a chinese japanese mocking of eyes) and the kids kinda normalized it. I was too young to understand or maybe I was just slower at realization but I ended up doing the "joke" to myself. I look back and cringe, it was so weird. And I can't remember much of it but my mom said I came home crying one day telling her that they made fun of me. And also idk how long after that I choked the kid- he's fine now but he has become an asshooe joking abt r*pe ANYWAYS getting sidetracked here I am so glad people are finally adressing these things, and in "east asian representation" they always use those incense sticks and bow as to ancestors which is I think called taiwanism not sure tho, but that's focusing on religion rather than culture, sure it has a lot to do with culture but not every east-asian pray to their ancestors infact (mostly what I know) people do it as per tradition but could be buddhist (believing in no god instead of praying to ancestors) but that could just be americans white ppl trying ro be respectfull. Also the term "white people" is so weird to me, I would rather say "White Americans" not saying all americans are bad but yk people in europe don't focus so much on stereotypes and film producers are mostly from america sooo it's more the american writers and produsers lol
I was already aware that a western franchise named “teenage mutant ninja turtles” would have inherent issues with orientalism, but I’m happy to see someone articulating it. I like Rise Splinter, but the scenes dedicated to making him seem gross were always worse to me than any other attempts to make him funny. I empathize with his overall arc and disconnection to his culture and direct ancestors (I am Chinese-American), and I wish Rise had managed the balance between story and comedy better.
Also the baron draxum redemption arc was stupidly handled and Splinter has every right not to forgive draxum
Apparently the focus on comedy was something Nick pushed for so you can't technically blame them for that.
But I do get what you're saying
@@cassidyjones2730yeah, no one disagrees? splinter didnt forgive him but chose to let him into the family as he knew mikey loved draxum. blame the shortening for the lack of the arc between draxum and the hamatos.
this is a great video, thank you for making it! im not asian myself (mixed white/puerto rican) but splinters portrayal in rise has always felt gross to me, and im glad im not alone in that. it’s one of my main roadblocks to introducing anyone else to rise, which is a real shame because i think otherwise it’s a phenomenal show! it feels like rottmnt is kind of a mixed bag when it comes to representation, with it having one of the most refreshing portrayals of an autistic character i’ve seen in a while, april being written as a black girl for the first time, while also having its… multitude of other issues. on the topic of latino characters specifically i tend to get conflicted, because to say they vary in quality would be a huge understatement. i find señor hueso to be incredibly charming! if a bit sketchy. while on the other hand ghost bear is…. yikes. don’t like that at all! (also, i don’t feel like i have the experience to speak on her specifically, but sunita has always felt questionable to me)
Can you go more in depth on your thoughts on Ghost Bear and Sunita?
how come sunita? genuineuinly curious!
i saw a tiktok about this topic, asian rep and tmnt, and this was super insightful, thank you for sharing and putting in the emotional effort to compile this !!
Thank you so much for this video! I haven't watched Rise since I don't exactly vibe with the art style, but there was always something about Splinter's design that left me pretty uncomfortable and I'm glad that you also share similar thoughts.
I do want to point out something regarding Doctor Strange! The film's producer whitewashed the Ancient One to avoid the character from being a racial stereotype of the wise old Asian man, but he realized several years later that this choice was a mistake. The damage has already been done sadly, but it's nice knowing the producer realized that mistake.
Gonna play Devils Advocate but this is damned if you do damned if you don’t situation. Dr. Strange 100% would’ve still gotten backlash if they portrayed the ancient one as how he is in the comic. They’d talk about that and how Stephen is a white savior
@@LivingLikeLarry12unfortunately thats something that happens, both are bad regardless.
As an Asian who lived in Asia I don’t have any problems with splinter in rottmnt. It’s always weird to me when people get more offended by something when me and my Asian friends aren’t.
I actually wrote about this in a compare and contrast essay on the first TMNT and Rise for my English rhetoric class. I brought up the rat stereotypes and voice actors, but I didn’t think about his actual characterization. This is a wonderful video, thank you for this!
thank you for explaining! 2018 Splints is still very much my favorite but i never knew or understood why Splinter's design was considered controversial until this video
thank you for this video honestly. I've heard only a few people discuss splinter and racism but never at length, and this video(plus many of the lovely people in the comment section) was incredibly beneficial !!!
Definitely please keep making videos about this stuff! I love getting to learn about these shows from new perspectives I wouldn't have fully understood otherwise.
i absolutely LOVE ride but definitely noticed some of these things watching the show and am very glad you’re pointing them out. as much as i enjoy the show, i know it’s not perfect. it’s important to acknowledge the issues in the show i love, because i want people to understand that it is flawed and to be aware of the potentially harmful stereotypes in it, regardless of how enjoyable it is. i understand that we can still enjoy the show while ALSO addressing the problematic elements of it.
Another excellent video, excited for your splinter analysis since your other rotmnt character analyses were so good
I was scared a bit by the start of the video but you set things in line during the opening. Nice stuff.
Love your vids! Hope ya keep makin' 'em for a long while.
I ain't East Asian and didn't realize all them stereotypes found in it so this was really eye-openin', course I knew some, but not all. Specifically not the rat thing.
I think to a certain extent the original comics which were inspired by a lot of what came out at the time inspired a certain osmosis with splinter specifically. As each generation of the series took off we each got matieral that would essentially shape splinter into what we know today, in rise specifically they are a culmination of each past splinters unexpected moments, ie the moments he isn't stern or stoic or wise. Yeah there can be an argument made about certain production not being able to find Asian VAs to voice him but to how the character itself should be I believe it's better to say it's not bad nor necessarily worse. The turtles themselves are an odd bag of diversity, yes we have a set personality for each turtle but the one thing we don't know is wether or not they match a demographic. Actually it's only recently I believe that we've been getting any kind of knowledge on that, each version of the TMNT are vastly different to each other but Rise is the pinnacle of that with them having a clear understanding and clear-cut demographic we can then see the turtles as. From the representation and demographic we know it's actually quite impressive how far it goes to cement that.
Omg yes thank you for making a video about this! I would have loved to see more of lou jitsu's back story especially as a first generation immigrant child. I feel like it fits so well with his character and it would be really nice to see that in full and not just in a slide show. 😭
im really glad you made this video! I recently got super into tmnt and i did notice a few things about splinter that made me raise a brow, but i wasn’t sure how to put it into words. I also love tmnt and splinter as a character but I believe its always important to understand the nuances of the things we enjoy and understand why it’s criticisms are important. Great video, thank you!
As always, a wonderfully poignant video. Thank you for the research, time, and dedication put into making this video.
I find this video to be really quite insightful to present this perspective across to people who don’t have the context or understanding of teh Asian audience and help in better understanding and learning form mistakes in the past and being mindful of how to move forward with the western representation of Asian people in the future. All in all a great dissection that opened my eyes to this kind of representation and almost find it disheartening to hear that most people just have to be satisfied with inclusion and not faithful and caring representation. Great video yet again keep yo te quality and can’t wait to hear your thoughts on splinter later in! Merry Christmas and a happy new year!
Thank you for making this video, i have struggled with really shitty depictions of people of my culture in popular media either by getting some of our best actors to play stereotypes of other cultures because they "look" similar or by depicting us as some third world tribals that traffic women and kill children and all these stories feature Westerners or Western influenced people coming in and dispersing some western liberal ethos about how savage,poor and primitive we are.
Also thank you for having the courage to describe and criticize media i have often avoided discussing or criticising due to my fears of being bad faith or not knowledgeable enough on the topic. I was a fan of TMNT from the 2000s show and when the 2010s show came out and i found out splinter was now a human rat hybrid i did get really uncomfortable about it. Honestly i wish to make content like this that can allow people to analyse culture to realise the mistakes and lack of knowledge of our predecessors in media and finally come to an understanding because as long as we keep ignoring these problems people will keep making these mistakes, keep making appeals to history or stereotype without allowing any introspection from people affected by this.
Beautifully said. I was able to make connections to behavior patterns in my own community that made me uncomfortable before but now I know why. Thank you for educating me.
There’s a quote from a video by Tony Goldmark that I think sums up the message of this video
“Just because something is good doesn’t mean isn’t problematic! And just because it’s problematic doesn’t mean it isn’t good!
At least, that’s how I see it and I agree either way
Now, I myself am about as white as they come so obviously I don’t have the same experience.
But, I like your main takeaway in the end a lot. I really like TMNT (and I ADORE Rise in particular) so this was an interesting perspective to listen to and a good instance of “it’s not that you can’t love this, but it’s worth trying to understand how others feel about it”
Keep up the good work, your stuff is great
I'm Asian-American (albeit Southeast Asian, not E. Asian), but I don't think I've ever known anyone in my family or outside of my family who thought TMNT was "problematic." Heck, even within my family, my younger relatives often make Asian jokes that would be considered offensive if spoken in public, but my family just laughs at them.
I have never really thought about Asian racism in media. Obviously I know it can exist but I've never given it a second thought like I have for black or latin racism for example.
Really good video as always, and insightful as well. Something new to learn
thank you for making this video! i'm not asian myself which is mostly why i never realized exactly how harmful this kind of "representation" could be. i always found it super weird and even at times uncomfortable about things like splinters stereotypical character, his design, etc. it's something i've always had a problem with since i understand as a poc how it is to not have a good portrayal of us, or to be super stereotypical. the smaller jokes in rise kind of went over my head, and thinking about it now i'm really disappointed with those moments in the show/movie. it's always important to talk about these things, and hopefully with more tmnt content(like mutant mayhem),we can get to a better place and have proper representation. :)
I'm Asian-American (albeit Southeast Asian, not E. Asian), but I don't think I've ever known anyone in my family or outside of my family who thought TMNT was "problematic." Heck, even within my family, my younger relatives often make Asian jokes that would be considered offensive if spoken in public, but my family just laughs at them.
this video was a real eye-opener. tank you, i subscribed
Excellent essay
Another banger video from you! And a really insightful one too!! I did learn a good deal with your video, so thank you!
had never known about the racist connotations between relating Asian people to rats , and now upon finding out i can see how hurtful seeing/hearing some of what Splinter says is . greatly informative video :)
I mostly agree with what you're saying about the subject matter, but we also have to be careful about what and how are subject are presented. Both Americans and European nations have had and sometimes still use stereotypes to groups that are the minority, lower class, or the outsider, but other nations do the same thing too, not only towards the West but to each other. I just saying, be good people and don't be too judgemental towards others that you don't understand. I hope you have a happy new year and great celebration 🎉
Man i love when these videos are educative and perfect for us to deconstruct stereotypes and write better stories ✨✨💕
This was really eye-opening to a perspective I never would’ve considered. Thank you for this video, it was really well done
The video was very informative! I've seen some mentions before of Splinter's design and characterization playing into harmful stereotypical and caricature-like beliefs about Asian people, but had a hard time doing my own research on the topic and finding accurate information about historic negative views of Asian people and the associated imagery. I really appreciate you taking the time to make this video with historic examples and sources, it makes it a good place to start digging further into the issue on my own.
I'm Asian-American (albeit Southeast Asian, not E. Asian), but I don't think I've ever known anyone in my family or outside of my family who thought TMNT was "problematic." Heck, even within my family, my younger relatives often make Asian jokes that would be considered offensive if spoken in public, but my family just laughs at them. Honestly, the majority of comments here seem to be written by non-Asians who are taking the video's statements at face-value. The few Asian comments I can find seem pretty divided between feeling offended and feeling NOT offended.
I really hope this show does better in its Asian representation when rise comes back... especially starting with recasting splinter and reviewing his character.
is splinter’s va not asian?
Hello, I am an average Latino person who has never seen anything about ninja turtles in his life besides the typical memes about their ugly bald green heads. About 3 days ago, UA-cam recommended one of your videos and I clicked because, I don't know. At first I was skeptical, but after watching your videos I started looking for where to watch the series. I can safely say that it must be one of the few animated series that really has me hooked. I hope you make more videos in the future recommending other things with the same quality as these videos. love u
I guess I'm not surprised that all of this flew over my head. Sure I'm Chinese, but I've never really experienced or learned about any of this until now. I'm pretty young so I still have time to learn, but it's a shame I didn't learn about any of this in school.
tbh i thought the joke splints made in the movie was a cannibalism joke,
I just thought he was full of himself. Ba dum tiss
@@emperortime4380 i think the creators made a dumb joke unaware of how it could come off, tbh they might have not known about how east asians were viewed as rats, i didnt
@@user-qq8kq5td4x Same. I don’t think it was malicious but they should have given more thought and maybe done some research
@@emperortime4380 definitely
I'm Asian-American (albeit Southeast Asian, not E. Asian), but I don't think I've ever known anyone in my family or outside of my family who thought TMNT was "problematic." Heck, even within my family, my younger relatives often make Asian jokes that would be considered offensive if spoken in public, but my family just laughs at them.
Hopefully anything new they continue to come out with will have more Asian and Black people on the writing and design teams. I don't have much to add as a white person but I appreciate this video popping up so I can be more mindful when creating things like fanart. This was an extremely well made video that gave really good historical context to what has gone wrong. Thank you for talking about this
I never really thought about this until now. I will say it did get repetitive seeing the same Asian storyline, over, and over, and over again, but I never gave this aspect of that much thought until now. Although we still have work to do, I am grateful it’s not as bad as it was back then. Really an improvement and I think we can all agree Rise Splinter has a better character than any of the last Splinters.
Hi! Thank you so much for making this video, it really opened my eyes and it taught me a lot. I never knew about all the harmful implications you pointed out, I'm glad to walk away from this more informed. I'm actually writing a 2012 tmnt fanfic right now, and I'm trying to write Splinter as less of a stereotype and more of a concerned and protective father. I'm not sure if you'll see this, but I really don't want to accidentally write anything to offend anyone, do you have any tips on how I could avoid that?
Hi, thanks for watching and I'm glad this video was helpful! As for writing his characterization, the biggest advice I can give to you is something that I think can be applied to any character: just write him as naturally as you can. For the most part, the "stoic Japanese man" stereotype _is_ a stereotype but it's also a character type that _can_ be written well. If you write your characters with depth, care, and humanity, then they'll connect with the audience. The issue is when there is little beyond the character aside from "stoic, old, wise." It might not sound like it in this video but I actually think the way Iroh and later versions of Splinter are done quite well. They have the traits that could come off as stereotypical but their character depth helps them connect to the viewer. Write them like you would write any other character, and typically the rest will fall into place. Good luck with your writing journey!
@@heybuwan Thank you so much! I really appreciate it! I'm always worried about accidentally hurting people, this helps a lot.
I love 2012 Splinter. Even if he did get a lol stereotypical at times, I appreciate the personality he had and the emotions he had. And how his transformation affected him.
Well said 🐀- you really should write ✍🏼 on the next TMNT series!!
Wow, hello! Thank you so much, that means a lot to hear! I definitely plan to keep up the love for new TMNTs, thanks for watching!
I loved Aladdin as a child BUT DEAR GOD THE AMOUNT OF STEREOTYPICAL MELTING POT OF SEPARATE ASIAN CULTURES MAKES MY BLOOD BOIL
Fun fact in the movie Joy Ride, the main character Audrey fantasies about splinter with all the other characters going by “he’s a rat?”
“No he’s Asian”
Highly recommend the movie it is a great funny movie that talks a lot about Asian stereotypes, being mixed, and understanding where you come from
14:05 At first I took this as Splinter being vain and considered himself delicious.
This video was very insightful thank you for making it but I was wondering if you were able to do your own tmnt series, would you change splinter to something else and if so what other animal?
... i just thought of something
Imagine a TMNT universe where the turtles were originally Splinters pets, and he immigrates to NYC with them. Someone knocks the turtles out of his hands, they mutate right there on the street, Splinter has to think fast and hide his mutant sons before anyone can kill them
So they all go down into the sewer in a dark alley, never to be seen by people again... Well, not for a long time anyway
Now Splinter has to figure out what to do with his new mutant turtle sons, but he lives in a small apartment so like??? Does he sneak them into the apartment or does he move down into the sewer???
Maybe that could be a way to have a human Splinter, that would be interesting. Fans would be furious though lol
I mean, there are rat characters in Japnese and Chinese folklore. Some of whom are evil but most of whom are divine and beneficial. With that in mind, why should it be bad for an Asian character to take the form of a rat? I'm Asian-American, and believe it or not, when I was a kid I used to be kind of a rat furry. I wanted to be a mouse or a rat because I thought they were cool animals. To this day, I still think animals are better than humans, so I would prefer a rat Splinter over a human Splinter.
when I first watched tmnt I had a feeling something was off with splinter, thank you for saying this
14:04 IF HE JUST SAID, “NONE TAKEN” OR JUST LOOKED AT HIM WEIRD, THAT WOULD’VE BEEN SO MUCH BETTER. OH NOOOOOOOOOO
tysm for making this video, I'm pretty new to the fandom and seeing Splinter in Rise made me feel off. This video was really informative!