For anyone crying about the Touring being on the wetter side of the runway - We had the runway for a very limited time, cameras were setup to run Touring down the left. It was on the drier side when doing the rolling runs on the way back and the results were the same. Also, the braking tests (either side) showed the tarmac had the same level of grip on both sides. I can't control the weather and I can't afford to hire the runway for hours, we did a brilliant job with what we had. Find some tissues and get on with your Sunday 😘
Loved how synchronised they both sound even though the saloon is ever so slightly faster! Would be really interesting to see how much difference there’d be with the G80 M3 and the F90 M5!
You never struck me as the type of guy to give in to the keyboard warriors. Love your videos and will continue too but seriously don’t give into them. It will only ruin your own great reputation rather then theirs. Keep up the great content! 👌🏻
Hi Jo Two considerations The touring is newer and perhaps tighter as yours has let's say been used In my opinion Nothing in it Great video Don't cancel your Touring Brilliant as always Thank you Tim
Thanks Joe for this video.. As you said in the "8500 miles review video of your M3 sedan" you cannot argue with physics. Anyhow imo the touring looks much better in dark colours such as dravit or frozen black. Silverstone interior is stunning.
So cool I live in the US and we can’t drag race or any kind of race in the wet but you guys are racing 500 plus Horsepower cars in the wet is sooo Awesome!! I’ve owned a couple of xdrive 535’s (E60-F10) but the power difference is substantial. I know this is an older video but well done Joe what Amazing BMW’s
Great comparison! Beaut sound with the two in harmony, interesting to hear the slight difference in shift times... Looking forward to more wagon content 👌 veeeery soon!
Tourings really are the best shape of M3. Especially for anyone over 40. In a touring you don't look like you are trying to hard, a great all round package.
very interesting 👌 I'm not even sure if I do really prefer the touring.. might be down to colour aswell, but your sedan just looks so perfect. can't wait to see your touring
Was just about to make a remark about the runway LOLOL. One anorak point id like to make is the saloons engine will be making a bit more power as its been well used and run in. Newer engines get looser and make more power with time. So id say based on that its a minute difference between the two cars.
I think the extra weight of the touring at the back might be a little bit of a helping factor for pushing the tires harder in the tarmac during launch.
Also a factor is the Sedan is fully broken in and engine has settled.. the touring is still not fully bedded in and will stretch its legs fully in 4-7k more miles
Hey Joe…great content as always. Out of interest how many miles have each car done at this point..most of my BM’s started to open up at around 4/6k miles and continued too
Great races! You might want to consider swapping sides after every race, like you did with the brake test, so both cars get to perform on different surfaces and a bit more fairness, in future drag races.
seeing a lot of comments about how the touring is a downgrade or that people don’t get why BMW is making it. Essentially it’s just the same car with an even broader appeal and use case so the M3 is viable for a greater demographic of customers. Don’t think about it too hard, it’s existence only adds to the M3. Great video Joe.
Is just the few extra kilos and drag coefficient that make the difference, that is all. Engines also have always small performance differences (is the way things are due to tolerances) between two "identical" units. The Touring is much more practical and more "sleeper".
The left side of the track was DEFINITLY wetter than the right side. Either way, fantastic fun video; I think your conclusion would have been the same.
I’ve been looking at these for last few years since you showed concept art . Order books open again now for December delivery . I’m tempted but it’s still £100k for a 3 series estate
@@thambomathambo7146 if you manage to order one, currently wait time could be easily 18 months - not to mention that base 911 without any options are pretty meeh... Also the real power of new M3 is it's tuning potential - easily tuneable with just software over 750 HP.
Couple of points. Andy looks a tad lighter than you, Joe! Also the Saloon is an older engine now, so perhaps develops a bit more power. It’s so academic, but the tourer is still my next order. Love it.
In a previous comment i mentioned i'm lukewarm about the new 3er Touring, however that M3 Touring in Portimao Blue really pops in this dull weather, looks like a solid wagon 👍 Not only less weight off-the-line but also the aerodynamics must play a significant part in why the saloon was faster as the hatchback shape is likely to cause drag - hence why hatches suffer from more road-grime on the rear window than sedans thus needing a rear wiper. The cars made a great sound side-by-side.
Should have dragged the RS4 competition vs the M3 Touring competition. They have different power delivery profiles so should be fun even if the RS is down on power.
Nice video Joe. Aside from the wetter side of the Touring which has already been covered in the comments, I do feel the extra advantage that the Saloon had over the Touring was not just down to the weight, but also because the saloon's engine is properly run in and loosened up with all the miles you have covered in it, and therefore gave it that little extra edge, more than the 0.1 difference BMW states.
2:13 Just a quick note on the carbon ceramics although they are unsprung mass the performance boost in acceleration and breaking comes from the reduction in rotational mass
I would still love the touring i think they look better than the salon, i would like you to do your new m3 tourer against my 340i tourer to see what the difference is and is the extra cost worth it, so how about it mate lets see what the difference is 💪😇
Thank you for the video and I am looking forward to the review and comparisons.😮I thought there was a 1250 mile running in for the tourer ? & the performance has been dialled back a smidge until that running in service is completed ?
Nick, Thanks for pointing that out. I may have miss read. But certainly any new engine you would run in and have the oils changed before flooring it especially a performance one. I expect Joe was super excited and had limited time left with his saloon.
#JoeAchilles, in the second run if you're watching on 4K it sounds amazing like surround sound as the tow engines were just maybe 1 stroke off as they wailed down the race track. BRAVO! #e46DinanTouringX->
What about the fact you were saying in your last video that you feel that basically your car is probably in the sweet spot where the engine has freed up and everything just feels a little better than when it’s new which the touring is so don’t be to hard on the touring yet🤔
The start 😠 Why have two equal cars, one on very wet surface? When you had a hugely wide runway Surely it would be sensible to move both cars to the right
@@JoeAchilles1 Easy, just place both cars to the right. The funny thing is you sensibly started in front of the white paint, which when wet can become like ice, esp. if your a biker. I will if that is an invite.
Brilliant comparison and great to see how both these machines perform against each other. Given they’re so close performance-wise surely you’d have to pick the Touring over the Saloon due to its practicality?? Keep up the great work, Joe 💪🏼
The old TopGear did it…. Lap times when “Stars in reasonably priced cars” had disparity in weights of up to 60kg…. CARWOW do it when Matt is 35kg lighter than his main “driver”… you do it Joe, when you are generally 25kg heavier than other driver. I guess that you can’t do much about it, with your frame, other than cutting a leg off but let me introduce you all to the idea of sandbags….. used in other archaic sports.
The state of run-in/mileage on the engines will have a significant effect on low mileage vehicles. It would appear that the touring had less miles on the engine - can you confine this?
some time ago dealership offered test drive of g30 i was not impressed. months later i was wondering around in same dealership saw g31, week later i drove it home. there is something about tourings, Joe would know what i am talking about
One's got wetter dirtier side of road and one's got an engine well broken in already, and all that tires and weight differences, i guess that's pretty much the reasonable fact which manufacture claimed 0.1 sec diff.
not a fan about the touring, although it's the first touring in m3 history. for sure it's slow and heavy, it has big storage, but why you need big storage for sports car. if i go touring i will go alpina brand.
For anyone crying about the Touring being on the wetter side of the runway - We had the runway for a very limited time, cameras were setup to run Touring down the left. It was on the drier side when doing the rolling runs on the way back and the results were the same. Also, the braking tests (either side) showed the tarmac had the same level of grip on both sides. I can't control the weather and I can't afford to hire the runway for hours, we did a brilliant job with what we had. Find some tissues and get on with your Sunday 😘
I absolutely agree! those who don't like it don't have to watch it!👍
@@hornet99923 It’s not about liking or watching, it’s about setting a neutral environment to offer a fair / unbiased comparison…
come on man, even if the tc stops as little as 2 or 3% of power in 1st but, mostly in second gear, it is enough to have an edge over the other car.
@@shopgeo I'd argue it's not fair complaining like a little bitch about free content... 🤔
@@JoeAchilles1 lol well said 😂
Loved how synchronised they both sound even though the saloon is ever so slightly faster! Would be really interesting to see how much difference there’d be with the G80 M3 and the F90 M5!
Why didn’t you change lanes in the cars, the estate was in the noticeably wetter part of the track every time! Both rapid though! 👏😀👍
Lack of time to setup cameras. We did the rolling races in opposite lanes and braking tests showed both lanes had exactly the same grip.
Touring! Estate is MB.
Touring's side of the runway definitely seemed wetter! But great fun either way. The Touring is clearly every bit as much a weapon as the saloon. 💪🏻
what a race between these siblings. the sound that these two make 💯💯💯
You never struck me as the type of guy to give in to the keyboard warriors. Love your videos and will continue too but seriously don’t give into them. It will only ruin your own great reputation rather then theirs.
Keep up the great content! 👌🏻
The estate on the wetter part of the track in the opening scene
Can’t believe how prices have gone up in the last few years, but thanks for the upload Joe….
Yeah, blame inflation for that.
Hi Jo
Two considerations
The touring is newer and perhaps tighter as yours has let's say been used
In my opinion
Nothing in it
Great video
Don't cancel your Touring
Brilliant as always
Thank you
Tim
Thanks Joe for this video.. As you said in the "8500 miles review video of your M3 sedan" you cannot argue with physics.
Anyhow imo the touring looks much better in dark colours such as dravit or frozen black. Silverstone interior is stunning.
Thank you!
Wagon all day long!
Outside shot sound is killer with both cars shifting at the same time.
Both with Miltek would sound so cool!
I was deciding between the two for my next car. Touring it is (almost)!. Thanks Mat!.
Idk doing so many runs, but not changing lanes to eliminate wetness as a factor
So cool I live in the US and we can’t drag race or any kind of race in the wet but you guys are racing 500 plus Horsepower cars in the wet is sooo Awesome!! I’ve owned a couple of xdrive 535’s (E60-F10) but the power difference is substantial. I know this is an older video but well done Joe what Amazing BMW’s
Let's just take the time to appreciate how slick Joe's videos are. Editing on point. Get content as always Joe.
Thank you!
Great comparison! Beaut sound with the two in harmony, interesting to hear the slight difference in shift times... Looking forward to more wagon content 👌 veeeery soon!
Thank you!
Cracking Joe. Love the multiple in gear tests. I would love to see more torque orientated top gear drags to expose torque deficiencies.
Wow!! the gear change sound happening simultaneously 🤗. I love both the cars
That shift sound clunk is so nice! I don't why but sound like there's some serious power behind that
Tourings really are the best shape of M3. Especially for anyone over 40. In a touring you don't look like you are trying to hard, a great all round package.
very interesting 👌 I'm not even sure if I do really prefer the touring.. might be down to colour aswell, but your sedan just looks so perfect. can't wait to see your touring
LOL the ending!! That was hilariously brilliant.
Awesome video. Been seeing the increase in quality on this channel 👏🏻. Keep it up Joe! Very interesting race between the G8x platform.
Thank you!
Was just about to make a remark about the runway LOLOL. One anorak point id like to make is the saloons engine will be making a bit more power as its been well used and run in. Newer engines get looser and make more power with time. So id say based on that its a minute difference between the two cars.
I think the extra weight of the touring at the back might be a little bit of a helping factor for pushing the tires harder in the tarmac during launch.
Yep swings and roundabouts for sure
When the performance is so close, it makes more practical sense to pick the station wagon, if you are ok with a bit more cabin noise inside.
If I had to choose which one to drive home in I’ll pick the touring every day 👍🇦🇺
Also a factor is the Sedan is fully broken in and engine has settled.. the touring is still not fully bedded in and will stretch its legs fully in 4-7k more miles
Hey Joe…great content as always.
Out of interest how many miles have each car done at this point..most of my BM’s started to open up at around 4/6k miles and continued too
Cracking Video Comparison - Cant wait to see yours soon as I reckon in Davit Grey will be epic!
Looks like so much fun. Brilliant content as always. Love these cars!!
Thank you!
Thanks for sharing Joe. Amazing comparison.
Great races! You might want to consider swapping sides after every race, like you did with the brake test, so both cars get to perform on different surfaces and a bit more fairness, in future drag races.
seeing a lot of comments about how the touring is a downgrade or that people don’t get why BMW is making it. Essentially it’s just the same car with an even broader appeal and use case so the M3 is viable for a greater demographic of customers. Don’t think about it too hard, it’s existence only adds to the M3. Great video Joe.
Joe... check the latest video of prior design channel!
You have definitely chosen the best colour for the touring! it's stunning in dravit
Thats red interior is just so 👌
Love the vid. Let’s see an Alpina B3 or B5 touring up against the M3. Torque versus BHP!
Hey Joe,
The great thing about hanging out with M3's... is that you can always return to M5's for some real fun!😉🙉
Gord
Is just the few extra kilos and drag coefficient that make the difference, that is all. Engines also have always small performance differences (is the way things are due to tolerances) between two "identical" units. The Touring is much more practical and more "sleeper".
The left side of the track was DEFINITLY wetter than the right side. Either way, fantastic fun video; I think your conclusion would have been the same.
Just love starting my Sunday watching epic cars drag race! Great content as usual, Joe and what a blast that must have been!
Thank you!
Great vid, hopefully see you at Goodwood somewhen this year 👍🏻
I Love the camera mini cinematics we get when you at the starting line
It's always raining where you live. Ever get any days of brilliant sunshine where you can drive proper?
I’ve been looking at these for last few years since you showed concept art . Order books open again now for December delivery . I’m tempted but it’s still £100k for a 3 series estate
That's 911 money. 60k would have been reasonable. The prices will eventually come down.
Ridiculous. What are you actually getting above an m340i with that? 40k for a bit more speed and stiffness.
@@thambomathambo7146 if you manage to order one, currently wait time could be easily 18 months - not to mention that base 911 without any options are pretty meeh... Also the real power of new M3 is it's tuning potential - easily tuneable with just software over 750 HP.
Nice to see the 1200 mile running in part is being taken gently!🤔😂
It's a press car, they are always delivered Run in.
All in all I'll take the M3 Touring, RS4 Avant, E63 AvantGrade, V60 T8 or any nice station wagons OVER ANY SUVs! In general that is.
Couple of points. Andy looks a tad lighter than you, Joe! Also the Saloon is an older engine now, so perhaps develops a bit more power. It’s so academic, but the tourer is still my next order. Love it.
Considering the track was way wetter on the Touring side, the Touring did quite amazing.
When we did the rolling tests it was the other way around, also the braking tests clearly showed both sides had the same grip.
Prefer the Touring any day, better looks, more practical and most likely better resale value over time.
In a previous comment i mentioned i'm lukewarm about the new 3er Touring, however that M3 Touring in Portimao Blue really pops in this dull weather, looks like a solid wagon 👍
Not only less weight off-the-line but also the aerodynamics must play a significant part in why the saloon was faster as the hatchback shape is likely to cause drag - hence why hatches suffer from more road-grime on the rear window than sedans thus needing a rear wiper.
The cars made a great sound side-by-side.
Can't watch any further, because it kills me that the cars don't switch sides, you can see the touring kicking up a cloud of water!
Dueling S58s.... you have the best job in the world.
Touring looks nice Drain pipe Joe...keep up the good work s1000 RR boy looool . Keep up the work bruh
Great vid Joe as always. Perhaps in time you could get Tony to do you an AC Schnitzer upgrade on your touring.
Superb Joe!...more like this please!...🙏🏻
Interesting video. I wish you had turned the RaceBox on so we could get rid of the reaction time/track differences...
Engine has loosened up nicely on GR11LEZ...cool video
Joe, is it me or the surface for the estate was more under water than for the saloon? 💁♂️
Maybe you should switch from race to race.
Should have dragged the RS4 competition vs the M3 Touring competition. They have different power delivery profiles so should be fun even if the RS is down on power.
We don't have any RS 4 Comps in the UK, it would have been absolutely destroyed either way, M3 is a chunk faster.
That wagon is beautiful!!
Another cracking vid joe. New shoes? What are they?
Great video as always Joe. So glad i subscribed a few months ago.
Nice video Joe. Aside from the wetter side of the Touring which has already been covered in the comments, I do feel the extra advantage that the Saloon had over the Touring was not just down to the weight, but also because the saloon's engine is properly run in and loosened up with all the miles you have covered in it, and therefore gave it that little extra edge, more than the 0.1 difference BMW states.
Gear changes are almost in perfect harmony !
Be good to see the race done again when you get the touring and parts fitted against a standard saloon
I'd love to know if the "run in" on the saloon could make any difference too? Both cars are lovely, especially the interiors.
2:13 Just a quick note on the carbon ceramics although they are unsprung mass the performance boost in acceleration and breaking comes from the reduction in rotational mass
Great vid. Breaking in the engine will probably help.
I would still love the touring i think they look better than the salon, i would like you to do your new m3 tourer against my 340i tourer to see what the difference is and is the extra cost worth it, so how about it mate lets see what the difference is 💪😇
Thank you for the video and I am looking forward to the review and comparisons.😮I thought there was a 1250 mile running in for the tourer ? & the performance has been dialled back a smidge until that running in service is completed ?
Exactly what I was thinking.
Why would the performance be dialed back a bit ? What difference does it make whether it's 400, 450 or 500hp for the break in ?
There is no such thing
Nick, Thanks for pointing that out. I may have miss read. But certainly any new engine you would run in and have the oils changed before flooring it especially a performance one. I expect Joe was super excited and had limited time left with his saloon.
@@an09dre If it's a press car it's either already done before giving it to others or nobody at BMW cares about it.
#JoeAchilles, in the second run if you're watching on 4K it sounds amazing like surround sound as the tow engines were just maybe 1 stroke off as they wailed down the race track. BRAVO! #e46DinanTouringX->
Great video idea, excellent execution!
Why must be the touring start in the wet side of the track? Must be nice if you switch.
What about the fact you were saying in your last video that you feel that basically your car is probably in the sweet spot where the engine has freed up and everything just feels a little better than when it’s new which the touring is so don’t be to hard on the touring yet🤔
The start 😠
Why have two equal cars, one on very wet surface? When you had a hugely wide runway
Surely it would be sensible to move both cars to the right
Surely it would be sensible if you got off your lazy arse and showed us how's it done 👍
@@JoeAchilles1 Easy, just place both cars to the right. The funny thing is you sensibly started in front of the white paint, which when wet can become like ice, esp. if your a biker.
I will if that is an invite.
Shocking result!
Hú, a kombi nagyon állat!❤
Brilliant comparison and great to see how both these machines perform against each other. Given they’re so close performance-wise surely you’d have to pick the Touring over the Saloon due to its practicality?? Keep up the great work, Joe 💪🏼
M3 RWD vs M3 AWD vs wagon M3 AWD -- 1730kg vs 1780kg vs 1865kg!!! Big weight difference based on the 100% same engine!!!
Great comparison, mate!!
I never thought seeing 2 m3s drag racing could be so boring. Leave it to carwow
Fun to watch. Thanks!
Love your videos that touring is just 👌🏻
The old TopGear did it…. Lap times when “Stars in reasonably priced cars” had disparity in weights of up to 60kg…. CARWOW do it when Matt is 35kg lighter than his main “driver”… you do it Joe, when you are generally 25kg heavier than other driver. I guess that you can’t do much about it, with your frame, other than cutting a leg off but let me introduce you all to the idea of sandbags….. used in other archaic sports.
Should have swapped sides. Clearly, the Touring was on a much damper side of the runway. Might of made a slight difference.
Wish the Touring was coming to South Africa🔥
Nice Joe!! The Touring looks so good!
The thumb rule I know about rotating mass is factor 5-8, so the 10kgs vs 85kgs would be quite close according to that
For a moment, I was hoping that you would keep both ;)
The state of run-in/mileage on the engines will have a significant effect on low mileage vehicles. It would appear that the touring had less miles on the engine - can you confine this?
Better to have a 3rd person to call the race. But good video, enjoyed it
I will take a saloon shaped car over a touring car anyday. Looks way better
Let us know how the wagon compares as a daily after you’ve had enough seat time. Great vid Joe 👍🏻
some time ago dealership offered test drive of g30 i was not impressed. months later i was wondering around in same dealership saw g31, week later i drove it home. there is something about tourings, Joe would know what i am talking about
Would be interesting to put a 335i wagon like mine with 500 hp+ for interest sake.2 wheel drive VS 4 wheel drive,lighter but less traction.👍
I can’t believe no one picked up that the estate has the Driver Assistance Professional package optioned, so it’s heavier even more.
One's got wetter dirtier side of road and one's got an engine well broken in already, and all that tires and weight differences, i guess that's pretty much the reasonable fact which manufacture claimed 0.1 sec diff.
not a fan about the touring, although it's the first touring in m3 history. for sure it's slow and heavy, it has big storage, but why you need big storage for sports car. if i go touring i will go alpina brand.
What's the mileage on the touring ? Not worried about running it in etc before thrashing it?