Epever MT50 programming for lithium batteries: Here's a link to my MT50 programming video. I don't know if Epever has fixed the software bug that I encountered when trying to program it but this is the method that worked for me. ua-cam.com/video/43KhqCEdP3A/v-deo.html
That Albin now has a complicated but very well organized electrical system - nice. Yachtworld has a Pearson Rhodes 41 listed for $325K refitted by Hinckley Yacht Services in Maine for over $1 million that you might enjoy seeing - they would have been much better off with your services because there is no solar arch, no dinghy storage, varnish on the interior is high gloss, the interior layout is now a Hinckley 41 and it is not totally finished. Hinckley also added fiberglass to the exterior of the hull as they thought the fiberglass was not strong enough. Captain Q yacht hunter on YT also reviewed it.
Seems extravagant. Some nice photos of it on yachtworld but I agree there were some unusual choices made when fitting her out. It's amazing how much a boatyard can charge for labor.
The electrical system is very well done wish mine was the same. And the change inside the boat is cool! But all the water in the front of the boat (minus batteries) 204 liters that's a lot in a boat that is little wet at the front in bad weather 👌
That's true about weight forward but at least he has the option to carry a full tank when the trade-off is worthwhile and carry it less full when he wants better trim and supplement and balance by more water jugs or fuel stowed in aft lockers. Good to have the option and since the integral tank doubles as a collision bulkhead it would be wasteful not to have a tank there.
Nice setup combining Li and AGM. I guess you have a drawing of the wiring setup for this, showing how you combine charge and discharge setup. Would you care to make this available here in a link or otherwiese?
I have a kind of off-topic question. I see you like to use a white epoxy barrier coat to finish lockers cabinets and fiberglass repairs. I like the nice, clean look and durability of the barrier coat. The question is if I have some fiberglass/epoxy layup there (for example tabbing), do I get the chemical bond between laminating epoxy (I use a non-blushing hardener) and the epoxy barrier coat, or do I need to still sand the fiberglass/epoxy lamination to get the mechanical bond? To sand, or not to sand, that is the question... 🙂
As per the data sheet you are supposed to sand polyester or epoxy fiberglass surfaces with 80 grit before applying Interprotect. It does have a tenacious grip though and in some case you could get by without sanding but I can't say for sure how that will work for you: www.international-yachtpaint.com/s3/documents/TDS/Interprotect_2000E_eng_usa_A4_20190726.pdf
I noticed that many of the Lithium banks, particularly in parallel, have plenty of max current to support starting the engine. Redundancy aside, could you temporarily connect the lithium bank directly to the engine for starting and then switch to have the DC to DC in the middle during operation? This would enable to good Lithium charge profile and prevent long-term heavy loads on the alternator, thereby removing the starter battery.
Yes the two LFP batteries here have enough capacity to start this engine. The main issue is that the LFP batteries have less internal resistance than AGM and will overheat the alternator and cause it to fail prematurely. If you want to run the engine on LFP then you need a new type alternator and special regulator. I don't see any way around that regardless of the DC-DC convertor. And as Frank pointed out you always need a battery of some type connected when the engine is running and best not to switch it during operation to avoid a voltage spike.
Wow, James - as usual, perfect work well thought out and implemented professionally. Watching this one makes me wonder what the "Hours of Work/Minutes of Video" ratio is - I'd guess 2:1 minimum, 3:1 more likely? More? :) Thanks for another great video!!!
Thanks. If you mean hours of installation work just for electrical components seen here, that took about a week. Hours spent pausing to video and editing this one probably took around 4 hours.
Thank you for another awesome video! I understand how you have the AGM and lithium separated but I don’t understand how you can switch to the AGM as a back up in case of a BMS failure or something of the sort. Could you explain. Thanks again!!
You'd need to physically remove the battery cables from the batteries and swap them over. We don't have a switch for safety reasons so it can't be changed accidentally.
I don't have the exact numbers at hand now. The wire, switches, connectors and odds and ends were about $1,000. If you include the big expenses like the batteries, chart plotter, and other electronics it might be around $5k.
I hear that you can just make one batt bank with lithium amd lead-acid together and not need the dc to dc charger. The theory is that the lead-acid will soak up the over charge as well as replenish the low batt levels...
This sounds like the system popularized by Emily and Clarks Adventure youtube video three years ago. While it is feasible, I decided then that there were a couple cons and not enough benefits for our situation so dismissed it. People should check out the video and read through the top comments for more info: ua-cam.com/video/tAuPfgZgXec/v-deo.html
@atomvoyager wow, that guy talks a lot just to say something simple. I'm thinking about just deleting my engine alternator for my next boat. In my experience, I never use it and it's problematic.
Yes you could but i think an epoxy primer such as Interprotect 2000e would be better and is the same paint I used for those lockers. It may be that the original paint from the factory on the batteries is good quality and resists rust. Time will tell.
Excellent work as usual! I just sent an email via your website inquiring about a Bristol 29. Have you converted one to an outboard well? I'm eyeing a B29 locally & may buy it if the well conversion for a 9.8 hp outboard is possible without too much modification. On a side note: Is it possible to obtain decent 12v charging of the lithium batteries from a 4 stroke 9.8 outboard engine? Have you done any tests on charge rates from outboard vs standard Atomic 4 or yanmar engine?
I sent you an email regarding the B29 outboard well. These small outboards have very little actual charging ability - about 1 amp for the 6 and 2 amps for the 9.8 even though they are rated higher. And that's at high RPM. At half throttle or less they put out very little so you need to rely entirely on solar when sailing. I'm not sure about their compatibility with lithium since the big alternators on inboard engines like the Atomic 4 or diesels typically put out 30 amps or more and are susceptible to damage if connected to lithium batteries without a special regulator.
@@atomvoyager Great info. Thank you! It seems that extended stormy weather during passage w/ no sun may leave batteries depleting to a dangerous level. Not only does below 50% do harm to AGM, but no batteries means no VHF, AIS, GPS, depth sounder, etc when you need them most. I suppose a turbine would work well in these conditions. Things to think about... Responding to email..
@@rob4631 The AGM in this case would not be depleted during a passage because it is only for engine start. The lithium bank can discharge 80-90% with little ill effect on them. They would not be depleted to a dangerous level during overcast because assuming you have windvane self-steering you turn off the the loads when the batteries are close to depleted. A few amp hours a day will run your led lights, AIS receiver and occasional use of a chart plotter to confirm and then shutting it down again. In 1.5 circumnavigations in latitudes less than 39N to 34 S I never had to start an engine or do anything drastic to conserve electric while having only 100w of solar. With say 200w of solar running low is even less likely. Keep in mind that solar provides some charge even during overcast. Running your engine a coupe hours to charge them is a lot more practical than a wind generator on a small boat. Not only the cost, weight, windage, noise and the shade they cast over the solar, they don't put out much if anything in typical light air downwind runs that are most common on passage. If you sail the far north where wind is more common than sun then maybe the tradeoffs are worthwhile.
wait.. i know this boat.. this boat has already done a circumnavigation, possibly by a Swiss couple, I reminder the arch and the yellow topsides, do you know its old name?
When the boat came to us the previous owner had the name "Henry" on the transom with home port of Deltaville, VA. I don't know who in Europe owned it before that.
![WATCH THIS before installing lithium batteries on your sailboat ⚡ [RYAN'S TECH CORNER]](/img/n.gif)
Epever MT50 programming for lithium batteries:
Here's a link to my MT50 programming video. I don't know if Epever has fixed the software bug that I encountered when trying to program it but this is the method that worked for me.
ua-cam.com/video/43KhqCEdP3A/v-deo.html
James your bad ass! I always pick up tips from you. Surveyors would be impressed with your install of the Lithium bank.
Love your videos. The care and thoroughness you take in refitting these boats is awe-inspiring. I’ll be bringing you some business soon.
Another great boat restoration. I always enjoy seeing the solutions you come up with.
Great job. We'll done. Thanks for all your hard work.
That Albin now has a complicated but very well organized electrical system - nice. Yachtworld has a Pearson Rhodes 41 listed for $325K refitted by Hinckley Yacht Services in Maine for over $1 million that you might enjoy seeing - they would have been much better off with your services because there is no solar arch, no dinghy storage, varnish on the interior is high gloss, the interior layout is now a Hinckley 41 and it is not totally finished. Hinckley also added fiberglass to the exterior of the hull as they thought the fiberglass was not strong enough. Captain Q yacht hunter on YT also reviewed it.
Seems extravagant. Some nice photos of it on yachtworld but I agree there were some unusual choices made when fitting her out. It's amazing how much a boatyard can charge for labor.
The electrical system is very well done wish mine was the same. And the change inside the boat is cool! But all the water in the front of the boat (minus batteries) 204 liters that's a lot in a boat that is little wet at the front in bad weather 👌
That's true about weight forward but at least he has the option to carry a full tank when the trade-off is worthwhile and carry it less full when he wants better trim and supplement and balance by more water jugs or fuel stowed in aft lockers. Good to have the option and since the integral tank doubles as a collision bulkhead it would be wasteful not to have a tank there.
Great work, as usual!!
Thanks for the video. I appreciate your clarity and no fluff. Careful with the NY , I might think you have hippy tendencies 😏
Nice setup combining Li and AGM. I guess you have a drawing of the wiring setup for this, showing how you combine charge and discharge setup. Would you care to make this available here in a link or otherwiese?
I'll try to make a drawing available eventually. For now if you need a copy of the rough sketch I used you could email me at atomvoyages.com
I have a kind of off-topic question. I see you like to use a white epoxy barrier coat to finish lockers cabinets and fiberglass repairs. I like the nice, clean look and durability of the barrier coat. The question is if I have some fiberglass/epoxy layup there (for example tabbing), do I get the chemical bond between laminating epoxy (I use a non-blushing hardener) and the epoxy barrier coat, or do I need to still sand the fiberglass/epoxy lamination to get the mechanical bond? To sand, or not to sand, that is the question... 🙂
As per the data sheet you are supposed to sand polyester or epoxy fiberglass surfaces with 80 grit before applying Interprotect. It does have a tenacious grip though and in some case you could get by without sanding but I can't say for sure how that will work for you: www.international-yachtpaint.com/s3/documents/TDS/Interprotect_2000E_eng_usa_A4_20190726.pdf
@@atomvoyager Thank you!
Superb work!
Do you have a one line diagram for the outboard system you spoke about.
Your videos are top notch as is your work.
Thank you
Thanks. Contact me through atomvoyages.com and I'll send you the wiring diagram.
I noticed that many of the Lithium banks, particularly in parallel, have plenty of max current to support starting the engine. Redundancy aside, could you temporarily connect the lithium bank directly to the engine for starting and then switch to have the DC to DC in the middle during operation? This would enable to good Lithium charge profile and prevent long-term heavy loads on the alternator, thereby removing the starter battery.
The alternator must always be connected to a battery. Not sure of what you are suggesting.
Yes the two LFP batteries here have enough capacity to start this engine. The main issue is that the LFP batteries have less internal resistance than AGM and will overheat the alternator and cause it to fail prematurely. If you want to run the engine on LFP then you need a new type alternator and special regulator. I don't see any way around that regardless of the DC-DC convertor. And as Frank pointed out you always need a battery of some type connected when the engine is running and best not to switch it during operation to avoid a voltage spike.
Wow, James - as usual, perfect work well thought out and implemented professionally. Watching this one makes me wonder what the "Hours of Work/Minutes of Video" ratio is - I'd guess 2:1 minimum, 3:1 more likely? More? :) Thanks for another great video!!!
Thanks. If you mean hours of installation work just for electrical components seen here, that took about a week. Hours spent pausing to video and editing this one probably took around 4 hours.
Thank you for another awesome video! I understand how you have the AGM and lithium separated but I don’t understand how you can switch to the AGM as a back up in case of a BMS failure or something of the sort. Could you explain. Thanks again!!
You'd need to physically remove the battery cables from the batteries and swap them over. We don't have a switch for safety reasons so it can't be changed accidentally.
@@atomvoyager thank you.
Just curious but what was the material cost on the electrical job?
I don't have the exact numbers at hand now. The wire, switches, connectors and odds and ends were about $1,000. If you include the big expenses like the batteries, chart plotter, and other electronics it might be around $5k.
I hear that you can just make one batt bank with lithium amd lead-acid together and not need the dc to dc charger. The theory is that the lead-acid will soak up the over charge as well as replenish the low batt levels...
This sounds like the system popularized by Emily and Clarks Adventure youtube video three years ago. While it is feasible, I decided then that there were a couple cons and not enough benefits for our situation so dismissed it. People should check out the video and read through the top comments for more info: ua-cam.com/video/tAuPfgZgXec/v-deo.html
@atomvoyager wow, that guy talks a lot just to say something simple. I'm thinking about just deleting my engine alternator for my next boat. In my experience, I never use it and it's problematic.
Could you coat those battery cases with epoxy resin to protect them from corrosion?
Yes you could but i think an epoxy primer such as Interprotect 2000e would be better and is the same paint I used for those lockers. It may be that the original paint from the factory on the batteries is good quality and resists rust. Time will tell.
Excellent work as usual!
I just sent an email via your website inquiring about a Bristol 29.
Have you converted one to an outboard well?
I'm eyeing a B29 locally & may buy it if the well conversion for a 9.8 hp outboard is possible without too much modification.
On a side note:
Is it possible to obtain decent 12v charging of the lithium batteries from a 4 stroke 9.8 outboard engine? Have you done any tests on charge rates from outboard vs standard Atomic 4 or yanmar engine?
I sent you an email regarding the B29 outboard well. These small outboards have very little actual charging ability - about 1 amp for the 6 and 2 amps for the 9.8 even though they are rated higher. And that's at high RPM. At half throttle or less they put out very little so you need to rely entirely on solar when sailing. I'm not sure about their compatibility with lithium since the big alternators on inboard engines like the Atomic 4 or diesels typically put out 30 amps or more and are susceptible to damage if connected to lithium batteries without a special regulator.
@@atomvoyager
Great info. Thank you!
It seems that extended stormy weather during passage w/ no sun may leave batteries depleting to a dangerous level. Not only does below 50% do harm to AGM, but no batteries means no VHF, AIS, GPS, depth sounder, etc when you need them most.
I suppose a turbine would work well in these conditions.
Things to think about...
Responding to email..
@@rob4631 The AGM in this case would not be depleted during a passage because it is only for engine start. The lithium bank can discharge 80-90% with little ill effect on them. They would not be depleted to a dangerous level during overcast because assuming you have windvane self-steering you turn off the the loads when the batteries are close to depleted. A few amp hours a day will run your led lights, AIS receiver and occasional use of a chart plotter to confirm and then shutting it down again. In 1.5 circumnavigations in latitudes less than 39N to 34 S I never had to start an engine or do anything drastic to conserve electric while having only 100w of solar. With say 200w of solar running low is even less likely. Keep in mind that solar provides some charge even during overcast. Running your engine a coupe hours to charge them is a lot more practical than a wind generator on a small boat. Not only the cost, weight, windage, noise and the shade they cast over the solar, they don't put out much if anything in typical light air downwind runs that are most common on passage. If you sail the far north where wind is more common than sun then maybe the tradeoffs are worthwhile.
wait.. i know this boat.. this boat has already done a circumnavigation, possibly by a Swiss couple, I reminder the arch and the yellow topsides, do you know its old name?
When the boat came to us the previous owner had the name "Henry" on the transom with home port of Deltaville, VA. I don't know who in Europe owned it before that.
Too much sophistication just to go sailing. I like keeping it very minimal and simple.