You do a fantastic job of explaining your process, accompanied by excellent visuals. One of the best DIY boat channels, and not sure why you aren’t seeing 100K subscribers. Go figure….
@@Carhawlin All epoxy resin. You could use vinylester resin but epoxy has the best properties for glassing to the old polyester resin they used when building the hull.
Nice work! Our 1972 Albin Ballad was also short on water tankage. We kept the forward poly tank -- don't need much chain where we will be cruising. Then I built a 31 gallon epoxy/FRP tank that fits under the port settee, tight against the nav station bulkhead. I built it up over a male mold, using a combination of woven fabric and 45° biax, alternating overlaps to strengthen corners. A drilled baffle divides the tank. The top was made separately & epoxied into place, along with the fittings and two large access ports. The interior is coated with a potable-water 2-part epoxy paint. In combination with the V berth tank and a couple 7 gallon jerry jugs (which we'd need on board anyhow, to dinghy water from shore), that should bring us to just about 60 gallons. The tanks are plumbed in both series and parallel, so we can gravity-dump the forward tank into the midships one to lighten the ends, get water on either tack, and keep them separate to prevent cross-contamination. Fingers crossed it all works! (Tried to include a photo link, but YT nukes any comment with a non-YT URL.)
This is heaven sent! Im refitting an 84’ Halman 20 and theres not much on the internet on this topic. I really like that it also acts as a crash bulkhead with the amount of steel icebergs floating around (lost shipping containers) your Pearson 28 blog is also a tremendous help thx!
I know this is over a year old, but does anyone know a soruce for this Bar-Rust 233H. I've been to their site and don't see it. Great video Jame, as usual ! Thanks.
My past supplier no longer carries it. I did find some last year on ebay. If you can't find it then you could use Brewcoat that I linked at the bottom of this integral tank article. I think you could safely use other epoxy tank coatings as well. It's likely there is no significant difference in them and not that they are toxic but that they didn't bother to go through a certification process for approval. I install a charcoal filter in a standard household water filter between tank and sink spout to get rid of any possible epoxy taste that may remain. It's generally recommended to make the mixture about 2-3% resin rich to ensure no uncatalyzed hardener remains and to allow 24 hours cure between coats. West System I believe recommends a resin-rich/ hardener-lean mixture that is about 5-10% resin rich in the article linked at the page below: atomvoyages.com/integral-water-tank-construction/
Hi James, thanks for this detailed video, have you ever experienced any leaks with those sight tubes, or noticed any issues with algae growth due to the transparency of the tube and exposure to light? Would you build them again in this way or use a different system for measuring the water level?
As far as I know none of the site tubes and their fittings have leaked. More recently I use Sikaflex 291 sealant for the fittings to tank and for fittings to hose connections as well as the clamps. Because the site tubes are normally in a closed locker they do not get much light exposure. If they did slowly cloud up after several years it's not a big deal to drain the tank and replace just the hose. Of course if you felt the need to have a site tube located in the open where it was exposed to light then that time could be shorter. I still build them this way since I haven't discovered a more simple and reliable and inexpensive solution.
I've watched all your integral water tank videos. One thing I've wondered is: When you seal on the lid, do you thicken the same epoxy you used to coat the inside of the tank, or do you use a different epoxy (which I would assume is also rated for use in a potable water tank)?
I add West System 406 silica to regular epoxy resin and then later take a touchup brush with a mirror to coat the small amount that squeezes out inside along the seam. It would save some trouble if you could thicken the Bar Rust epoxy so maybe I should do a test of that. I'm not sure if it will harden up properly when so thick though. That said, the small amount of exposed epoxy on those upper seams is not constantly immersed and even if it was, I doubt there is anything harmful in the epoxy if it was mixed carefully with a very slightly resin rich ratio.
I really enjoy watching your careful and precise approach to these projects. Thank you so much for the content you're putting on UA-cam. Do you have another video I can watch that shows your method of measuring and cutting bulkheads to fit so well? Oh, also, I have a question about the longevity of a tank like this. Rebuilding it or re-coating the interior surface doesn't seem like something that one would want to do very often. Can this be expected to last many years? Decades?
Yes it should last decades with no maintenance other than occasional inside cleaning if the water grows moldy as it can over time in any tank. I have a similar tank I built into my own boat over 25 years ago and its been fine. I did have one tank I built some years ago using plywood and there apparently was a pinhole gap somewhere in the lid that eventually saturated and rotted so I cut out just the top and replaced it. You have to be very careful to seal a wood cored tank with several coats of epoxy and fiberglass. The foam core is less critical and I only build them that way now. For bulkheads there is such a thing as the tick stick method but I find it easiest to take rough measurements of the size needed, cut it out of cardboard and then trim the carboard to a close fit with a box cutter and scissors and fill any gaps with masking tape along the edges. Once the cardboard pattern fits, I trace it onto the foam or plywood, cut it out, grind an angle along any edges that need it, glass the foam board and it's done. If there are small errors of gaps they fill in with the thickened epoxy fillets along the edges before the fiberglass goes on. I show some of that being done in my outboard well videos.
If you‘re not afraid of listening to a german/swiss speach you might take a.look at this video explainig how to take awkward measures for bulkheads etc. ua-cam.com/video/gbuo6-SYK-0/v-deo.html
Hello James, I’m impressed with your processes and video here. One question, I’m curious about what finish you used on the interior of the V-berth when you were completed. I’ve used Interlux eggshell enamel before, but that was a long time ago. Is this paint? Or pigmented epoxy? I am restoring a Fisksatra Havsfidra 20 so I’m shopping around for all the latest tips and tricks I can find… Thanks very much.
In this case I think we just used 2 coats of white Interprotect 2000e epoxy barrier coat as a primer and paint in one. It's the easiest and fastest to apply if you don't mind the matte finish. Recently I prefer to use white Total Protect from Total Boat since it goes on smoother and less odor when applying. For areas where the owner wants a smoother paint finish I use latex type EZ Cabin Coat which is a semi gloss and tint it off-white as done in the link to the video here about 8 minutes in. In any case, I try to avoid using gloss white because it is too reflective and highlights imperfections in the surface and finish: ua-cam.com/video/LcwNSVHhaiA/v-deo.html
@@atomvoyager Thanks so much for your info. I do like the matte finish. I find gloss below decks distracting with all its imperfections jumping out at me. I recently joined your Plastic Classic Forum, I’ve got a coffee-can-type hull-to-deck joint on my Havsfidra 20 that I will be dealing with and hopefully can get some detailed info on. Thanks for all you do!
I take rough measurements of the size needed and sketch it on paper. Then I refer to the sketch to draw it out on cardboard, or thick paper if it's a small pattern. I cut out the cardboard, hold it in place in the boat and then trim it to a close fit with a box cutter and scissors and fill any gaps with masking tape along the edges. To get a close fit I move a sharpie pen parallel to the hull using my finger as a guide and that marks the cardboard to a good fit. It's hard to explain in words so I should show it being done next time.
Over the past year I've done about 30 jobs on a partial refit of a M31 here that is preparing for a circumnavigation. I haven't covered most of that on video since it was all the typical jobs you see on other boats on this channel. If you have specific questions about something you can join and post them on the Plastic Classic Forum. I'm a moderator and answer questions there: plasticclassicforum.com/forum/
150' x 5/16" G4 chain with 100' of nylon extension. The space is tight so the nylon needs to be coiled up and hung under the deck to allow the chain to sit low. This is OK because most to the time you don't need it but in deep anchorages you can take the extra step of releasing the coiled line below and then hanging it back up when retrieving. I'll show this in a future video.
@@atomvoyager I have an Albin Vega, the chain locker looked about the same as mine b4 your change. Do you know or guess what a vega could hold in 5/16 chain.
@@redwood1957 I'm not sure about the Vega. 150' fills two 5-gal buckets 3/4 full if that helps to visualize it. The Vega is light enough that you could get by with 1/4" G4 HT for a better fit and less weight. With 1/4" you may not need a windlass (use a chain stopper) and consider using less chain such as 100' and that should fit alright. On my 28' boat I have a windlass and 125' of 5/16 chain.
What are your thoughts on having water storage under settees to keep weights near center of gravity? Also, if I remove the inboard engine, removing water tank from under the V-berth would help keep things balanced.
My feeling is that having some water tank weight in the center v-berth is less of a trim problem than having a full tank under port or stbd settee. If you had two settee tanks and moved the valve to take each one down halfway that could work. But storage under settees is more handy than under the v-berth so you may not want to sacrifice that. Extra ground tackle, batteries and water jugs stowed aft will easily compensate for a centerline v-berth tank provided you don't place it all the way forward.
So helpful, I built my integral tank using divinycell following the article on your website.It looks identical to this one. My question is where do you source those fittings? I'm about to buy all the fittings but have a hard time finding them.
The access plate is from Defender.com, Beckson DP60-W: www.defender.com/product3.jsp?path=-1&id=7803537 The plumbing fittings I get from West Marine because I get wholesale prices so you might shop around for best price. Below are West Marine model numbers: 2 pieces tank site tube 90° Plastic Mushroom Head Barbed Thru-Hull, model # 336230. 1 piece 1/2" thru-hull outlet, Model # 411340. 2 pieces 5/8" thru-hull for vent and chain locker drain, Model # 401929 Optional - 1 piece 1 1/2" inlet, Model # 395709. I'm assuming you will reuse your existing deck water fill fitting. I now prefer not to install the deck inlet to save cost and clutter and because the tank should be filled by pouring the water jugs into the tank access plate or bringing the hose thru the forward hatch and into the access plate so as not to overfill and stress the plastic access plate seal. If you do use a deck fill, then best to pump out about a gallon of water at the sink spout to address that issue.
@@atomvoyager My boat never had the deck fill for water, so I've opted to keep it that way and fill the tank through the beckson access plate. Good tip about not overfilling and stressing the plate. Makes sense.
Another question I had was what kind of sealant do you use for the fittings that come in contact with water inside the tank? Is it a non toxic sealant or do you paint over the fittings to cover any exposed sealant?
I clean off any excess sealant around the fittings inside the tank so there's a miniscule amount exposed the the water. I have used West Marine Multi-caulk, but now use Sikaflex 291 which I think is better. They are fairly inert once well cured and I have a household charcoal cartridge water filter before the sink spout. I guess you could paint over them if you wanted. If you have more questions you may want to join the Plastic Classic Forum. I'm a moderator and answer questions there: plasticclassicforum.com/forum/
James, I'm a bit worried about your chain locker drain, Ballads don't normally come with a chain locker and when they are added its probably better to drain the locker directly overboard instead of to the bilge, the reason being is that the Ballad is a very wet boat and will take a lot of water over the bow, when sailing this means you will constantly be running the bilge pump, Mads from Saillife did a video of running the drain directly overboard from the locker, ua-cam.com/video/5zVKjOvkNeA/v-deo.html keep up the good work!
Thanks for the comment and link. I just watched the 6-part videos of Sail Life's chain locker. I didn't realize the Ballad had no locker originally, just a sealed panel with no access hole. A previous owner of our boat cut the access hole in the bulkhead and installed a deck chain pipe. From what I can tell, the Sail Life guy does not have a windlass or all chain rode so his locker can work with a raised floor and overboard drainage. We wanted to have 150' of chain with 100' nylon extension and a manual windlass, so the bulkhead had to be moved aft for chain to sit as low as possible. For that to work we must drain to the bilge. But don't worry, I've had the same system on Atom, my smaller and lower freeboard boat on two circumnavigations and never had too much water coming in. There are two ways to reduce water coming in the chain pipe. One is to remove the shackle from the anchor before an offshore passage and hang the chain under the cap and seal the cap with a plastic bag around the edge. The other is to leave the chain on and wrap a small piece of Play Doh (modeling clay) around the chain at the cap and then wrap the cap with the plastic bag. Either way, there will only be drips and a few cups of water coming in each day underway when beating in heavy weather and the bilge pump easily takes care of that.
You do a fantastic job of explaining your process, accompanied by excellent visuals. One of the best DIY boat channels, and not sure why you aren’t seeing 100K subscribers. Go figure….
The glasswork, is it all in epoxy? Or are you using poly and then finishing with the bar rust?
I was just thinking the same thing. His channel is by far the best one I've found when it comes to refitting and DIY projects.
@@Carhawlin All epoxy resin. You could use vinylester resin but epoxy has the best properties for glassing to the old polyester resin they used when building the hull.
Thanks. It's not a slick production and there's no bikinis so I guess we'll just have to keep this to ourselves.
@@atomvoyager 😃 heh heh heh
Nice work! Our 1972 Albin Ballad was also short on water tankage. We kept the forward poly tank -- don't need much chain where we will be cruising. Then I built a 31 gallon epoxy/FRP tank that fits under the port settee, tight against the nav station bulkhead. I built it up over a male mold, using a combination of woven fabric and 45° biax, alternating overlaps to strengthen corners. A drilled baffle divides the tank. The top was made separately & epoxied into place, along with the fittings and two large access ports. The interior is coated with a potable-water 2-part epoxy paint.
In combination with the V berth tank and a couple 7 gallon jerry jugs (which we'd need on board anyhow, to dinghy water from shore), that should bring us to just about 60 gallons. The tanks are plumbed in both series and parallel, so we can gravity-dump the forward tank into the midships one to lighten the ends, get water on either tack, and keep them separate to prevent cross-contamination. Fingers crossed it all works! (Tried to include a photo link, but YT nukes any comment with a non-YT URL.)
Thanks for the description. Sounds like a good system.
Absolutely love your videos and quality of workmanship!!!
Another excellent video. Always a learning experience for me. Thanks for the videos.
This is heaven sent! Im refitting an 84’ Halman 20 and theres not much on the internet on this topic. I really like that it also acts as a crash bulkhead with the amount of steel icebergs floating around (lost shipping containers) your Pearson 28 blog is also a tremendous help thx!
Nice work as always. I have been wanting to see how you do this from when you have showed them in other refits.
Well done. Your attention to detail and quality is going to bring you the right customers. Keep up the good work and videos. Best regards from Jarle
Best builds anywhere
I know this is over a year old, but does anyone know a soruce for this Bar-Rust 233H. I've been to their site and don't see it. Great video Jame, as usual ! Thanks.
My past supplier no longer carries it. I did find some last year on ebay. If you can't find it then you could use Brewcoat that I linked at the bottom of this integral tank article. I think you could safely use other epoxy tank coatings as well. It's likely there is no significant difference in them and not that they are toxic but that they didn't bother to go through a certification process for approval. I install a charcoal filter in a standard household water filter between tank and sink spout to get rid of any possible epoxy taste that may remain. It's generally recommended to make the mixture about 2-3% resin rich to ensure no uncatalyzed hardener remains and to allow 24 hours cure between coats. West System I believe recommends a resin-rich/ hardener-lean mixture that is about 5-10% resin rich in the article linked at the page below: atomvoyages.com/integral-water-tank-construction/
Hi James, thanks for this detailed video, have you ever experienced any leaks with those sight tubes, or noticed any issues with algae growth due to the transparency of the tube and exposure to light? Would you build them again in this way or use a different system for measuring the water level?
As far as I know none of the site tubes and their fittings have leaked. More recently I use Sikaflex 291 sealant for the fittings to tank and for fittings to hose connections as well as the clamps. Because the site tubes are normally in a closed locker they do not get much light exposure. If they did slowly cloud up after several years it's not a big deal to drain the tank and replace just the hose. Of course if you felt the need to have a site tube located in the open where it was exposed to light then that time could be shorter. I still build them this way since I haven't discovered a more simple and reliable and inexpensive solution.
I've watched all your integral water tank videos. One thing I've wondered is: When you seal on the lid, do you thicken the same epoxy you used to coat the inside of the tank, or do you use a different epoxy (which I would assume is also rated for use in a potable water tank)?
I add West System 406 silica to regular epoxy resin and then later take a touchup brush with a mirror to coat the small amount that squeezes out inside along the seam. It would save some trouble if you could thicken the Bar Rust epoxy so maybe I should do a test of that. I'm not sure if it will harden up properly when so thick though. That said, the small amount of exposed epoxy on those upper seams is not constantly immersed and even if it was, I doubt there is anything harmful in the epoxy if it was mixed carefully with a very slightly resin rich ratio.
I really enjoy watching your careful and precise approach to these projects. Thank you so much for the content you're putting on UA-cam.
Do you have another video I can watch that shows your method of measuring and cutting bulkheads to fit so well?
Oh, also, I have a question about the longevity of a tank like this. Rebuilding it or re-coating the interior surface doesn't seem like something that one would want to do very often. Can this be expected to last many years? Decades?
Yes it should last decades with no maintenance other than occasional inside cleaning if the water grows moldy as it can over time in any tank. I have a similar tank I built into my own boat over 25 years ago and its been fine. I did have one tank I built some years ago using plywood and there apparently was a pinhole gap somewhere in the lid that eventually saturated and rotted so I cut out just the top and replaced it. You have to be very careful to seal a wood cored tank with several coats of epoxy and fiberglass. The foam core is less critical and I only build them that way now. For bulkheads there is such a thing as the tick stick method but I find it easiest to take rough measurements of the size needed, cut it out of cardboard and then trim the carboard to a close fit with a box cutter and scissors and fill any gaps with masking tape along the edges. Once the cardboard pattern fits, I trace it onto the foam or plywood, cut it out, grind an angle along any edges that need it, glass the foam board and it's done. If there are small errors of gaps they fill in with the thickened epoxy fillets along the edges before the fiberglass goes on. I show some of that being done in my outboard well videos.
If you‘re not afraid of listening to a german/swiss speach you might take a.look at this video explainig how to take awkward measures for bulkheads etc. ua-cam.com/video/gbuo6-SYK-0/v-deo.html
Hello James, I’m impressed with your processes and video here. One question, I’m curious about what finish you used on the interior of the V-berth when you were completed. I’ve used Interlux eggshell enamel before, but that was a long time ago. Is this paint? Or pigmented epoxy? I am restoring a Fisksatra Havsfidra 20 so I’m shopping around for all the latest tips and tricks I can find… Thanks very much.
In this case I think we just used 2 coats of white Interprotect 2000e epoxy barrier coat as a primer and paint in one. It's the easiest and fastest to apply if you don't mind the matte finish. Recently I prefer to use white Total Protect from Total Boat since it goes on smoother and less odor when applying. For areas where the owner wants a smoother paint finish I use latex type EZ Cabin Coat which is a semi gloss and tint it off-white as done in the link to the video here about 8 minutes in. In any case, I try to avoid using gloss white because it is too reflective and highlights imperfections in the surface and finish: ua-cam.com/video/LcwNSVHhaiA/v-deo.html
@@atomvoyager Thanks so much for your info. I do like the matte finish. I find gloss below decks distracting with all its imperfections jumping out at me. I recently joined your Plastic Classic Forum, I’ve got a coffee-can-type hull-to-deck joint on my Havsfidra 20 that I will be dealing with and hopefully can get some detailed info on. Thanks for all you do!
Could you please explain your method of making templates for different hull forms, especially in hard-to-reach places?
I take rough measurements of the size needed and sketch it on paper. Then I refer to the sketch to draw it out on cardboard, or thick paper if it's a small pattern. I cut out the cardboard, hold it in place in the boat and then trim it to a close fit with a box cutter and scissors and fill any gaps with masking tape along the edges. To get a close fit I move a sharpie pen parallel to the hull using my finger as a guide and that marks the cardboard to a good fit. It's hard to explain in words so I should show it being done next time.
@@atomvoyager Thank you - and please do :)
As i own a HR Monsun 31 and am really Into your modifications i wonder if you could share what other modifications you have done to the Monsun? 🙏
Over the past year I've done about 30 jobs on a partial refit of a M31 here that is preparing for a circumnavigation. I haven't covered most of that on video since it was all the typical jobs you see on other boats on this channel. If you have specific questions about something you can join and post them on the Plastic Classic Forum. I'm a moderator and answer questions there: plasticclassicforum.com/forum/
Nice job, with new chain locker. What size chain and amount plus line will it hold?
Thank you
Mike
150' x 5/16" G4 chain with 100' of nylon extension. The space is tight so the nylon needs to be coiled up and hung under the deck to allow the chain to sit low. This is OK because most to the time you don't need it but in deep anchorages you can take the extra step of releasing the coiled line below and then hanging it back up when retrieving. I'll show this in a future video.
@@atomvoyager I have an Albin Vega, the chain locker looked about the same as mine b4 your change. Do you know or guess what a vega could hold in 5/16 chain.
@@redwood1957 I'm not sure about the Vega. 150' fills two 5-gal buckets 3/4 full if that helps to visualize it. The Vega is light enough that you could get by with 1/4" G4 HT for a better fit and less weight. With 1/4" you may not need a windlass (use a chain stopper) and consider using less chain such as 100' and that should fit alright. On my 28' boat I have a windlass and 125' of 5/16 chain.
@@atomvoyager well I just got a good deal on a 5/16 windless, I could change it but would rather not. We will see. Thank you
What are your thoughts on having water storage under settees to keep weights near center of gravity? Also, if I remove the inboard engine, removing water tank from under the V-berth would help keep things balanced.
My feeling is that having some water tank weight in the center v-berth is less of a trim problem than having a full tank under port or stbd settee. If you had two settee tanks and moved the valve to take each one down halfway that could work. But storage under settees is more handy than under the v-berth so you may not want to sacrifice that. Extra ground tackle, batteries and water jugs stowed aft will easily compensate for a centerline v-berth tank provided you don't place it all the way forward.
@@atomvoyager Thank you for the advice!
So helpful, I built my integral tank using divinycell following the article on your website.It looks identical to this one. My question is where do you source those fittings? I'm about to buy all the fittings but have a hard time finding them.
The access plate is from Defender.com, Beckson DP60-W: www.defender.com/product3.jsp?path=-1&id=7803537
The plumbing fittings I get from West Marine because I get wholesale prices so you might shop around for best price. Below are West Marine model numbers:
2 pieces tank site tube 90° Plastic Mushroom Head Barbed Thru-Hull, model # 336230.
1 piece 1/2" thru-hull outlet, Model # 411340.
2 pieces 5/8" thru-hull for vent and chain locker drain, Model # 401929
Optional - 1 piece 1 1/2" inlet, Model # 395709. I'm assuming you will reuse your existing deck water fill fitting. I now prefer not to install the deck inlet to save cost and clutter and because the tank should be filled by pouring the water jugs into the tank access plate or bringing the hose thru the forward hatch and into the access plate so as not to overfill and stress the plastic access plate seal. If you do use a deck fill, then best to pump out about a gallon of water at the sink spout to address that issue.
@@atomvoyager Thank you very very much!!
@@atomvoyager My boat never had the deck fill for water, so I've opted to keep it that way and fill the tank through the beckson access plate. Good tip about not overfilling and stressing the plate. Makes sense.
Another question I had was what kind of sealant do you use for the fittings that come in contact with water inside the tank? Is it a non toxic sealant or do you paint over the fittings to cover any exposed sealant?
I clean off any excess sealant around the fittings inside the tank so there's a miniscule amount exposed the the water. I have used West Marine Multi-caulk, but now use Sikaflex 291 which I think is better. They are fairly inert once well cured and I have a household charcoal cartridge water filter before the sink spout. I guess you could paint over them if you wanted. If you have more questions you may want to join the Plastic Classic Forum. I'm a moderator and answer questions there: plasticclassicforum.com/forum/
@@atomvoyager Thanks a lot for the pro tips! I'll check out the forum.
You can start your Patreon account.
James, I'm a bit worried about your chain locker drain, Ballads don't normally come with a chain locker and when they are added its probably better to drain the locker directly overboard instead of to the bilge, the reason being is that the Ballad is a very wet boat and will take a lot of water over the bow, when sailing this means you will constantly be running the bilge pump, Mads from Saillife did a video of running the drain directly overboard from the locker, ua-cam.com/video/5zVKjOvkNeA/v-deo.html keep up the good work!
Thanks for the comment and link. I just watched the 6-part videos of Sail Life's chain locker. I didn't realize the Ballad had no locker originally, just a sealed panel with no access hole. A previous owner of our boat cut the access hole in the bulkhead and installed a deck chain pipe. From what I can tell, the Sail Life guy does not have a windlass or all chain rode so his locker can work with a raised floor and overboard drainage. We wanted to have 150' of chain with 100' nylon extension and a manual windlass, so the bulkhead had to be moved aft for chain to sit as low as possible. For that to work we must drain to the bilge. But don't worry, I've had the same system on Atom, my smaller and lower freeboard boat on two circumnavigations and never had too much water coming in. There are two ways to reduce water coming in the chain pipe. One is to remove the shackle from the anchor before an offshore passage and hang the chain under the cap and seal the cap with a plastic bag around the edge. The other is to leave the chain on and wrap a small piece of Play Doh (modeling clay) around the chain at the cap and then wrap the cap with the plastic bag. Either way, there will only be drips and a few cups of water coming in each day underway when beating in heavy weather and the bilge pump easily takes care of that.
Also, the deck chain pipe needs to sit on a raised block at least a half inch above deck level to reduce water ingress.