I watch A LOT of “VanLife” related content on YT. This is likely THE Most Valuable vid that I can recall. This should be a MUST WATCH for anyone doing a van, wish that all relevant ‘groups’ (e.g. FB) could … promote ? … viewing this. I completely Get your intro. It surely was a difficult endeavor. But, your ‘post-mortem’ is beyond exceptional. Thank You !
As someone currently building out a van this video is amazing. Turning what is a tragedy for the owners into an educational video like this is a great service. Thanks for making it and thank the owners for being willing to share it.
You’ve done a valuable service in documenting this and noting what failed and what didn’t. Also glad they didn’t have a child/dog/cat that probably would’ve been badly injured had they been in the coach area. Thanks for sharing this!
Never ever let pets or kids ride unrestrained. pets should absolutely be kenneled in a small travel kennel or set up in a proper pet seat reastraint, and kids need seatbelts.
pretty sure my cat would land on it's feet through all of the commotion and then just look at me for the next 2 days like I did that on purpose to annoy her.
I'm glad that the accident wasn't worse. They can be terrifying. When building the next conversion here are a few things to think about (I hope that this is taken in the vein of constructive advice. I have given these matters a lot of thought as I build my van, and hopefully they can be useful for anyone building theirs). Note: I am not an engineer, but I have some knowledge of physics. The first (very rough) rule of thumb is that during a head on collision into a solid wall at 35 mph, every item in a vehicle will experience a force that is roughly 20 times the force of gravity. A 1 pound object will experience a force on its mounts equivalent to a 20 pound object hanging in a vertical orientation from those same mounts. What this means is that if you have a cabinet that weighs 40 pounds, it will pull on its mounts as though it were hung from those mounts vertically and weighed 800 pounds. A 100 pound cabinet will pull as though it weighed one ton! (And FWIW, an Ikea 24 x 24 x 30 kitchen cabinet at 150 pounds will pull on its mounts as though it were hung from them and weighed 3,000 pounds). Of course, these are approximations and assume that the cabinets are perfectly rigid. But overall, this is a fairly close approximation of the actual forces involved. And this includes every item inside of a cabinet. They will add to the overall inertial force that these cabinets need to withstand. A head on collision into another vehicle of equal weight experiences the exact same forces as crashing into a solid wall. Hitting a tree can similarly lead to these kinds of forces. And a head on collision into a larger vehicle will multiply these numbers. So, weight is the very first, critical thing to consider when doing a build. If you can get a cabinet down from 40 pounds to 20 pounds, the "forces" it will feel in such an accident will drop from 800 pounds to 400 pounds.* If you can get it down to 10 pounds, then it drops to 200 pounds during an accident. TINY reductions in weight have SIGNIFICANTLY magnified benefits in an accident. The second thing is in regard to the fasteners used. First, the fact that the glued joints held up while the screwed joints didn't does point out that glue is stronger than screws, but does not imply that glue is strong enough. It just means that the screws failed first, and once they failed the glue no longer was under any stress until the cabinet (in free fall) hit some other surface (the cabinets will fail like a chain with a weak link). Had the cabinet been fastened in a way that it was not able to tear free, it is possible that the glued joints could have failed. Note: they may have held up as well. I can't say whether glue is strong enough or not. I'm just saying the fact that in this case that they didn't fail can only be used to indicate that they are stronger than screws, nothing else. Screws have a very small surface area, and more importantly, the wood that they screw into has a very small surface area and is prone to splintering. So if you have a giant 2x4 screwed into another 2x4 with a single screw, regardless of the sizes of the timber pieces, the actual surface area that is being used to hold the two together is very very small. When subjected to the kinds of forces described above, the tiny bit of wood fiber that they are pressed against cannot hold. Multiple screws will hold better, but again the total amount of wood surface area is limited. It also suffers from the fact that this surface area is distributed along the length of the screw. I.e. the threads closest to the surface of the wood have very few fibers to hold them in. These can tear out fairly easily (imagine putting a screw 1/16" into some wood and pulling on it with pliers - you can tear the wood out by hand). Once these tear out, the next set below are in a (very very roughly) similar situation and can tear out. And so on. With each successive layer of wood fibers that no longer have fibers "above" them holding them in, the screw winds up having a rapidly decreasing amount of remaining fibers to handle the forces pulling on it. Instead of screws, through bolts with very wide washers should be used. I cannot guarantee that they will hold up in an accident, but the strength of a through bolt with a washer vs. screws is many many many orders of magnitude higher. And glue everywhere will assist in keeping the cabinets from deforming (a deforming cabinet can pivot on its fasteners like a hinge which increases the chances of tear out). But glue by itself may not be enough if it only penetrates a few mm of wood fibers - as you saw, the wood can splinter if the fibers run perpendicular to the direction of the inertial forces. I hope this comment is taken in the manner it was meant: Some help in understanding the forces in a crash and how they affect different materials. I really hope your friends rebuild and are not put off of something that clearly brought them joy. But hopefully, also, their next van will be even safer. *(I am playing fast and loose with the term forces here, you can't measure forces in pounds. But you get the idea.)
I’m planning a van and I was having many of the same thoughts. I went back and forth on a divider between the front seats and the back because of the same points you made. A water bottle catching you in the head in a crash is enough to end you. On the other hand, anything flying from the rear will likely be caught by the headrest/seat. After reading your remarks, it’s clear that “likely“ definitely isn’t good enough and I’ve been in denial about the necessity of a separation between the front cabin and the back of the coach. Loss of the feeling of spaciousness is nothing compared to alternative losses.
@@I_Am_SciCurious The nice thing about the dividers is that they are available commercially, and that they are designed (and tested?) by certified engineers. I think your inclination to include it is a very good one and - with luck - you will never know if it works.
Great comments here. I'm not an engineer, but have experience in building. My DIY Transit build is almost finished. All wall/ceiling connections were made using 1/4 x 20 Riv-nuts and large/wide washers. I made a full-height, floor to ceiling, cabinet housing the fridge (on bottom) and closet/pantry right behind the drivers seat so as to be at least a partial barrier. Also, regarding the glueing/screwing of wood panels, I watched a video where the carpenter compared pocket holes first glued vs those screwed only; the glued joints were MUCH stronger. The wood will fail before the glue. Just saying. Another point to bring up here, would be using Baltic Birch vs regular pine plywood, and MORE importantly, use 7-ply vs the cheaper 3to5-ply that you find at Lowes/Menards/Home Depot. Hope I never have to see how my build out weathers a crash.
@@ldygzlle1291 I actually don't for a number of reasons. First is just time. I have a day job that consumes most of my free time. The second is simple liability. I am a total amateur. I build as strong as I can with an eye on the physics of collisions, but I am not an engineer and I can't warrant that my work would be strong enough to survive an accident. But if you build your own m(or hire it out) keep the two most important facts in mind: The (very roughly) 20x force multiplier in case of a head on collision, and how that is affected by weight. I built my cabinets out of "quickframe" from 80/20 (you can also get it from EstoConnectors for less, but they use a marginally less strong aluminum alloy - that said, I would expect it to be plenty strong for these purposes. I would use them in my next build to save money). The panels on the sides of the quickframe are made from lightweight 1/8" plywood that I pop-rivet to the aluminum frame. This adds stiffness, but not much weight. Any weight bearing surfaces (like the bed or the top of a cabinet that people will sit on) are made from 1/4" plywood. But I keep that to an absolute minimum. All of the connections to the van (and to other cabinets) are made by bolting through the aluminum frame. The light weight of the cabinets (4 total cabinets between 5 and 20 pounds per cabinet in my case) coupled with bolts going through aluminum into the frame of the van (using plus nuts in the frame of the van) mean that this is all very very firmly attached and not likely to tear out in the case of an accident. Also, my heaviest cabinet (the 20 pound one that will effectively tug on its mounts as though it weighed 400 pounds in an accident) is bolted to the floor of the van with six bolts going to six plus nuts... and is mounted on the floor directly behind the front seats - i.e. the seats are pushed up against this cabinet to provide it with extra support. Note: One plus nut is usually certified to resist about 200 pounds of pull out force when put into .75mm steel sheet metal. If you distribute the forces over multiple plus nuts across a wide surface area - i.e. the entire length and width of your cabinet- you should have a very strong connection. But like I said, I am not an engineer so this is just what I am doing, not a guarantee of safety. If you want to build your own, I would strongly recommend the quickframe material (or EstoConnectors). It is super easy to build a cabinet from this stuff. If you have the aluminum pre-cut (which can be expensive) then you only need a mallet to assemble the frame. You would need to be able to cut wood, drill holes in aluminum (simple wood drill bits are perfectly find for this) and use pop-rivets (a $18 tool will handle that). If you want to save money, cutting aluminum is super easy with most wood working tools. A circular saw with an aluminum cutting blade does it super easily (you can even just use a regular wood blade as well, but the cuts will be slightly rougher - that said I used a regular wood cutting blade myself). The last step is drilling holes in your van for the plus nuts (note: not regular rivet nuts - use plus nuts. Multiple vendors carry these and you can get them online). It seems scary, but once you start doing it, it is not hard. A regular drill and drill bit will work. Just be sure that when you are drilling through the floor of your van that you don't drill into a brake line or gas tank. I used a block of wood that was just about 1/4" shorter than my drill bit, drilled through that and then used it as a way to make sure my drill bit never went more than 1/4" into the body of the van. Super easy and 100% reliable in preventing me from drilling into anything important. Don't forget to paint the newly drilled holes with some paint meant for metal. You don't want rust. Good luck!
Thank you for this content. You did a great job of covering the accident, the damage, all while being sensitive to your friends. I thank them for allowing you to film and dissect the build. I wish more content like this was out there. Taking a bad day and making it educational for those who are building is a great service. As a former Fire/EMS volunteer, I've seen bad things happen. To have a resource that shows and examines what weak points are in builds is priceless. Glad your friends are ok.
A fascinating and informative video. While uncomfortable to film and share, it’s important as it provides insights that are almost always impossible for average builders to access. Namely real accident evidence. So thank you for posting. It is suggested in a number of places in the video and in the comments that DIY vans are somehow less safe than commercial converted vans - I am curious as to the evidence for this statement. Having rented and travelled in a handful of vans from big corporations I would not bet on successful outcomes in accidents. In the drive to save cost these things are flimsy. Class B RVs are likely the most safe of all RVs as the base van has to go through crash testing. And there are more and more advanced safety features that you don’t find in other RV. But there is no requirement to crash a converted van to test for accident worthiness. And without crashing we don’t know the failure points. So we pull what we can from videos like this…plywoods over solid woods, glue to distribute forces are a good idea. A bulkhead - though rarely included in any build, commercial or diy would be a good addition. Make sure everything is bolted down. Outside of solid mounts for the lithium batteries, are there other ways to secure? Modern cars themselves have pyro fuses that cut the battery if the airbags blow. Are there similar features for house battery banks? Any other major take-always? A follow on video or two with suggestions would be exceeding valuable. Thanks…
Thanks for sharing! Super happy to hear they walked away. I also had a similar experience and am so happy modern engineering is keeping more of us alive. Keep wearing those seatbelts!
This is a great study. Thanks for sharing. Please send your friend warm thoughts from here. Also - make sure she stays proud of her build quality. The fact that they walked away and much of the build actually seems to have survived the initial accident (even if there were more failures when the van was righted). Well done.
Great to hear everyone is ok, and they are approaching this situation with such a positive outlook. Thanks to you for sharing these valuable lessons and reminding all of us that these beloved vans are still vehicles on the road and need to be able to be as safe as possible in these awful scenarios. Keep up the good work!
This is a great video. All while building my van ive always wondered how things would hold up during a collision/accident. Im sorry for your friends and i hope all is well. Thank you to them for allowing you to film this and provide it for the (van) world to see.
Thanks for sharing. First, and foremost, I’m glad to hear that your friends didn’t get hurt in that accident. Second, good points made about the failure modes in the build.
That accident is exactly how my stepdad died in his work truck back in '92. They were t-boned. The other truck slammed right into his passenger door. I thank god your friends are alright. Vehicle safety has come a long way in the last thirty years and I'm so glad for it. I could go the rest of my life without senseless tragedy.
Glad your friends are okay! Great information. Interesting point with the adhesive, it makes sense as it probably covers more surface area than a nail or screw. Reading though some other comments it sesms you are helping others reassess the safety aspects in their builds. Much respect. Thank you for sharing.
Thank you for putting up this video. We are pleased that your friends are ok. The results of the accident have given us a lot to think about in regards to what can happen inside a vehicle. We live in a 9 metre bus, so have concerns as to what is safe and what needs looking at. We already know that in an earthquake situation that you don't have a hope in hell of getting out of a vehicle until the shaking stops, by then you could be on your side and totally trashed inside. Take care, Denise and Neil.
From one of the worst days imaginable to sharing with the community, your friends and you have done a great service. Thank you for sharing! Most of your viewers are likely not engineers but I think we can all learn a lot by the visuals of the the destructive force a crash can cause. It seems to me that solid lumber will split like kindling under the axe when stressed so maybe plywood might be better as furring strips or mounting surfaces and through bolted whenever possible. Glad your friends are safe and thanks for posting this respectfully done video.
Great video. Important and should be seen by every builder. Great example of the need to understand the materials you use and their failure modes. The lumber failure is no shock to me. There's a reason that 1x SPF or pine boards are used in those silly martial arts demo's. Completely random grain structure and variations in density. Plywood, while not perfect and requires getting a quality grade, is much more predictable and consistent. The screws shown at 11:20 certainly looked pretty short, but may have been the max that the material they were going into allowed. I'd wonder, and this is just my coffee shop engineer brain making a guess, if some of those screws that pulled out of the 1x lumber wasn't partially a consequence of not only the previously mentioned inconsistencies in fiber density of the lumber, but also the flex/stretching of the wood. That split second of the fibers expanding just enough to let go of the screws. Obviously the brute force of the impact is the majority. But the tiny factors can pile up and be a contributor. Came here from the vid about your use of plywood that I saw on the side bar while watching Joseph's vid's over at Sharing the Wild. And this definitely adds to further some of the points you made in that vid. Thanks to the van owners for allowing this rare look at the aftermath. And given what could have happened, it looks to me like they actually did a better than average build for a first timer.
Wow,, so informative, there is nothing like this available about what could happen if a collision occurs. Glad to see that they were not injured. As you point out, a lot of the force is been applied on all point of attachments. So there is compromise to be done between, the modularity and the potential need to access or modify components and lowering the risk of modules flying around. I am also taking note that wood as a structural elements (furring strips and 2x4's)maybe not the best either. On the other side plywood showed great impact resistance and stayed attached to the walls.
Plywood is generally much stronger than "natural" wood because regular wood will splinter where the inertial forces are parallel to the wood grain. Plywood has grain in both directions so that helps it be much stronger. But the fact that the plywood stayed attached to the walls only tells you that it was stronger than the wood the screws were. Nothing else. If the screws had somehow held, it is possible the plywood would have failed. It is like a chain. It will fail at the weakest link, but that does not tell you if any of the other links were strong enough. Only that they were stronger than the weakest link.
Thanks for sharing this, and particularly the analysis of the strong and weak points. And the comments about the battery system - definitely something to think about in planning my build!
Much appreciated this video as this is a topic that I've never seen covered before. I see so many van builds online that are "enough stuff crammed together to keep it from shifting" built. While I'm not exactly sure where the lesson was learned, but I was always taught to never keep anything on the rear shelf in a car to prevent it from becoming a projectile. I think that early logic can be applied here as well, despite the nature of the impact in this specific case. I'm curious if the aluminium builds would fair any better. More importantly, is there any prevention methods to better secure batteries? Any extra coverings would have a possible negative impact heat wise, I would think. This video *should* open many rabbit holes for van life safety. For example, microwaves mounted high on the van sides always seemed like a safety hazard. What happens to all the propane, extra gas tanks and butane cans in the event of a collision? These issues should be the next big thing in van life as some choose this lifestyle and so many others are being forced into it for economic reasons.
Batteries can be bolted down to the floor with a simple steel square tube frame or steel straps. Nylon straps would work too if they’re heavy gauge enough. Would go minimum 20x the weight of the battery in total strap rating to protect against the worst accident possible. 100lb battery, 2000lbs minimum of straps. And hooks can be through-bolted to the floor. Match the pullout rating of the bolt to be 2.5x minimum the rating of its connecting strap. If strap is rated at 1000lbs, connecting bolt should be rated at 2,500 lbs - 1/4” 20tpi would be adequate. Use multiple, large washers and nylon lock nuts. Stainless steel will not rust over time in a van.
Thank you for this. It has given me pause for thought to perhaps reconsider some of the construction design choices I'm making for my current van project. A very thoughtful and considered piece. Thanks.
Thanks for sharing this. So many builders use solid spruce lumber for framing. Over time it'll dry and shrink and no matter what kind of screw or glue you use, in an accident such as this .... things will fail and become projectiles. All interior finishes should be veneer core plywood, mechanically anchored to the frame of the van. It's not hard ... but it's critical for safety. I'm so glad no one was hurt. But this is exactly why the insurance industry makes it so hard for conversion vans .............. be well ..... Dave
Great detailed video. I don't think there is anyone out there talking about camper van builds and collisions, although I feel very badly for the couple who this happened to. After watching, I think it is probably best to avoid any overhead storage and have all the storage as low as possible. I mean, imagine what would happen in a front collision (as opposed to a side collision). The overhead cabinetry could detach from the side walls and go flying straight into the back of the passengers head. This could be fatal. Just something to think about when doing a van conversion.
My work van from a previous job had a metal wall with a built in door. This separated you from all the stuff in the back and protected the driver and passenger in case of an accident. If I ever built a van I think I would incorporate that. I’m currently doing a cargo trailer conversion.
@@gerrycollins9409 Great point! I have been looking at some used cargo vans online and indeed as you mentioned some come with a metal divider between the cab and the cargo area. But as far as I can remember none came with a door. I wonder if there is a way to fit one on a solid thik sheet of metal. After watching this video, perhaps I should retain the metal wall if I get van that comes with one. Or I should install one if one is absent. Best regards.
@@gerrycollins9409 Work vans who use the back as cargo need to have a bulkhead. All these conversions won't pass an inspection and youtuber's keep showing really bad builds - most seem like they are using tools for the first time when they slap them together.
Agreed. I was on the fence about overhead *cabinets* vs overhead *soft luggage.* This made that call easy. I would not worry about having a soft "cabinet" on L or J track hung high if it only held clothing. Point taken.
So sorry that your friends lost their van but glad they're ok. Thank you for sharing this as we can all learn something about how to make our vans safer and more structurally sound.
Great they were able to walk away uninjured. Definitely something I've thought about while planning my build. Especially with regards to balancing strength vs. weight savings and where forces may go during an impact.
Not criticizing, just hypothesis-ing for theories on avoiding aftermath problems: .... it looked like the leisure batteries were still connected in the clean up phase? Should they and the engine battery not be disconnected as soon as possible, if possible. A short could happen hours or days after the crash if something structural inside were to fall and hit off two frayed wires, or if rain got in and made a connection between terminals or frayed wires.
Big Thank you to your friends for sharing their terrible day. It now has me considering how to integrate an emergency exit into a roof vent when I build my van to help aid escape, as this could happen to anyone driving a big top heavy van. Good lesson on hoping for the best and planning for the worst.
Thank you for this! I am building out a van and will definitely consider the structural integrity from a different perspective. So glad your friends are ok!
Interesting. Thanks for sharing. Looks similar to my first build that I bolted to the factory floor bolt holes and built out of 2x4’s and Kreg screws. Batteries are strapped down and blocked in place. Over 3 years nothing came loose or rattled. I built this way to live with the layout before committing to more expensive components. Glad they are OK.
The accident looks like it would have been far less likely to have happened if the road junction was a roundabout, which are much safer. And if there was an accident at a roundabout the impact speed would likely have much less.
Happy to hear the couple were okay first and foremost. Accidents are heart wrenching thing to happen. Bad enough for any vehicle to get into one, worse if it's your home.
it is informative, i agree, who cares what happened in a major accident regarding the 'afterbuild if u are building for light weight. . what is important is what happens and how stable are things after the "shake n bake" of travel of 10K, 20K,30K, 40K, and higher road use. What i did learn is that the vechichule did absorb the accident as designed...with no serious effect on the passangers...really cool, thks for posting.
Great to see your friends are OK. That was a great van based on the Fiat Ducato. I have a first generation ducato based camper van from the 80's that is still running to this very date.
Loose change in a cup holder goes everywhere. The police officer questioned a coworker about a tire and wheel inside his suv that didn’t make sense. It was the spare from the vehicle that hit him. There all kinds of advice on how to build something. One thing to keep in mind is anything carried in a vehicle, attached or not, has the potential to move and kill you. There are plenty of accidents that would have been survivable because the vehicles didn’t fail, but the contents killed the occupants. It doesn’t matter if it’s a van build or your common daily driver. Learn what you can from other’s experience. Plan the best you can. Live every chance you get. Ultimately none of us end life alive. Happy motoring 🐅
WoW!!, Sry this happened to U guys.Thank you very much for this post! e.g.,as a DIY-er this has enlightened me tremendously & heighten my skills for safety in a build!
If the accident had caused any of those cabinets to fly into the cab area, it would have been horrific. Use aluminum extrusion bolted to the frame in these builds..
I can empathize a lot.. I was in a head on last day of last year (100 mph min) ... and it is difficult and the whole life can change... thanks for this work ... be good and drive safe...
Thanks for the video. The van did AMAZING! Good to see it held together and did what it was supposed to do - protect the passengers. Being hit by an SUV/Truck, they're lucky there were in a heavy van and not a small car. Weight makes a big difference.
Thank you. Probably the most useful YT ever. I am converting a people carrier (miniVan in American). It is an 8 seat Hyundai i800. My philosophy was - style, lightweight, no holes drilled in body, glue not screw, use original hard points ie seat belt points to fix the furniture, aluminium extrusion (80-20 in American) and thin board for the furniture walls, floor of 9mm not 19mm, 24 volt electrics to cook my weird diet, LiFePO4 and a proper electrical system. I didn't want what most vans look like ie designed by kitchen fitters. Though some do look like very nice kitchens. But that is not for me. I wanted something that worked the way I would use it. That recognised it was a mobile environment like the Italian Futurists or Art Deco or Steam Punk. I didn't want a mobile IKEA kitchen. It is very hard getting style into a small space that is also functional. It also had to be fixed to crash tested mounting points. It will be lighter than the original vehicle. Thank for your investigation of crash worthiness.
That sounds pretty much what I'm doing to, in a VW Caddy Life mpv. Aluminium 2020 profile bolted to the lashing points and to the seat floor supports (I take the rear seats out when in camper mode, which is most of the time, but part of the bed can be easily unbolted and removed if I need to use the car for more than 2 passengers and put the seats back in. Due to the small size of the vehicle i'm not using doors on my under bed storage, but strapping my backrest mattress cushion to the side of the bed frame when in transit with webbing and web -bridges to secure to the frame to effectively be the doors. I'm using pull-out fabric boxes under the bed to keep the weight down. Pretty much everything has to have dual purposes! And I'm using ample web bridges and webbing to quickly and easily secure stuff.
Most woodworkers will tell you that the strongest joints are glued. The screws are usually used to hold the joint while the glue dries so you can continue building instead of having to wait for the glue to dry. A lot of this build actually looks overbuilt, so maybe better than many professional builds.
Thanks for sharing. I don't think this is something anyone thinks about when they're building out their van. I am in the middle of doing my build, and it's been top of mind for me. I am definitely not going with the IKEA bed slat idea anymore! I am also glad your friends are okay.
I'm using the ikea bed slats, velcroed to the bed frame (aluminium profile), but the mattress is fitted with straps to the bed frame (through web bridges) , so would keep the slats in place, as well as the mattress. I've tried to think of how each piece would behave in the event of a rear shunt, a head on collision or an overturning, when doing my design. As my mpv van is a microcamper with no separation between the front and rear, this is of particular importance.
I hope this video is watched by lots of DIY camper van builders. I used to drive vans for a living and I know how careful you have to load a vehicle and how to drive. There is no way I would drive a van fully loaded with the bulkhead removed yet the vast majority of DIY camper van builds remove the bulkhead. There is a reason why vans have bulkheads but newbies don’t understand it’s an essential safety feature. For them, it’s an inconvenience which needs removing. I wouldn’t criticise DIY camper van builders as they are just enthusiastic newbies at most required skills e.g. generally they don’t have van driving experience, they don’t have woodworking experience, they don’t have lithium battery experience, they are not used to thinking safety first, comfort second. I think it’s great the number of people willing to build their own camper vans but they need curb their enthusiasm a bit and think safety first in their design. This is a vehicle, all vehicles are dangerous. You design your build expecting the van to be in accident, a camper van is a vehicle first, home second.
Thank you Man for putting out this video. Im sorry for your lost and thank God that you and love one in your van did not sustain serious damage and turns out in good health. When it come to the Van, Ouch! that hurts. I don't know what your back up is when someone have brutally destroyed your home. So I hope that you may recover quickly. I Owen a Promaster Just like yours and it is self built. I just hope that I don't find my self in a situation like yours because my Van is all I have. NO Nearby Family, NO place to stay and everything I owe will be in the Van. It will be deverstating for my wife and me. May God help anyone in a situation like this.
my uncle and aunt had a blown tire- related crash in a Hymer RV, luckily both survived, they both woke up outside of the van, (he hanging by his shirt at the side mirror, ish) - there was NOTHING left of the whole backside of the camper. The rear section had become 200 metres of pulp spread out onto the highway. Something to keep in mind. They were lucky - had both been strapped into their seats.
Having built a few things in my life, the temptation is to always use readily available materials similar to what is used in houses. My suggestion would be to go for much lighter materials, well worth the little extra expense considering the gas savings. Also you have to remember inertia, the heavier, the more energy is given up in a crash, so more internal damage.
Finishing up my 2020 Transit 250 Extended High Roof build, and was very curious to see how this DIY build handled the crash. Very informational. Tragic accident for sure, yet nothing serious that wasn't recoverable. Thanks for the video.
Very interesting video, and very delicately handled. Hope I manage to be as graceful with this comment as I am not a native english speaker. Seeing the split wood and the screws along the fault line sure was an eye opener. I have never built a van for camping but have done some boatbuilding and there we glued everything and used fillets+tapes. I am sure there is some point of failure there as well. Considering all the stuff that might loosen and go flying during an accident, perhaps a bulkhead with a smallish opening (door/hatch) between the driving compartment and the living area is a thing worth to consider? Would be some weight there even if done in high density foam+glass, but could also make a real difference. Your friends seemed to be both healthy and in good spirits in the video. That is always the important thing.
Insightful. Thank you for sharing this. I am really happy that your friends are safe, healthy, and received what they felt they were compensated at best.
Thanks for documenting. It was very interesting to see how things failed. Sucks that stuff like this happens but would be super interesting to see more of these types of videos. Glad your friends were ok. If they do another build it would be awesome to do a walkthrough of it someday.
So scary. Glad they are ok. Wow, the van took the impact and they stayed safe. When I see travelers and van lifers that get in a collision I think about their safety and any pets that may be traveling with them safety. I see that there were no pets with them and glad they are ok!
Honest thanks for sharing this. Making me reconsider how I have my van built (mostly rivnuts for securing things to the walls)... but my batteries may not do so well in a crash. Also making me seriously guilty that since adding a new dog to my house, I haven't gotten around to making her a secure place... she's just in a loose travel crate while we're in motion, and that'd go flying. Other dog is in a secured metal crate, she'd bounce around in the crate, but it would stay fixed in place. *sigh* too late to do anything about it before this years trip.... glad your friends were unscathed and hope they're eager to build another.
12:00 is the reason why our motor vehicle inspection authority forbids the use of any softwood (and poplar plywood) as they tend to rip along their grain and create very long and pointy bits flying around during a crash. I never thought about it before but totally get their point. Interesting to actually see it happen in real life (and that a lot of rules are written with the blood of the less fortunate)
@@corail53 they're otherwise okay with DIY builds as long as it's not obviously sketchy and well secured to the vehicle. As far as crash safety goes not even any of the commercially available campers would ever pass
Professionally built Motorhomes would fair worse or at least no better. They’re just too heavy. I think they actually did quite well. The forces involved in an accident are huge. Looking at it they did a good job keeping the weight down. They were ‘lucky’ it was a side-on. I think a head-on would’ve been catastrophic.
I just watched the RV heat at a local demolition derby. Those commercially built vehicles did WAY worse. This is kind of a "bad vs. worse" scenario unfortunately. No accident is a good one in any kind of camper.
I built out a work truck before and now I’m building out an old Dodge sprinter van. My first thought was safety in case of a frontal impact crash. What I did was I built a wall of two 3/4 inch sheets of plywood screwed together behind the driver’s seat firmly anchored to the sidewall, to the floor and to the roof so that I have some protection from stuff flying forward in a crash.
Excellent video to increase awareness about crash worthiness. That's why every cabinet in my van is reinforced and bolted down, with M6 Tnuts into the van walls / floor (Raphvan blog). Indeed, containing the batteries (or water tank if inside) is critical in case of a crash. A collision experiencing just a few Gs of deceleration will easily make them weigh over a few 1000lbs. No glue or wood screw is going to hold that. Even just a water bottle can become a 40lbs bullet. Another key electrical safety practice is to cover every exposed terminal post to avoid short-circuits in case of foreign objects (or someone dropping a wrench...). These guys were lucky that none of the teminals at 14:55 short-circuited with the bed's metal bars, pans, etc. Saw people use a diesel heater and install its small tank inside the van. Imagine that thing dripping after a crash... Hopefully after this video some folks will reconsider.
Yeah agreed, still quite informative to see the weakest links in the system, even if you would never normally subject the system to anything like this kind of force.
Use a work sprinter - the ones with a metal bulkhead separating the drivers/passenger from the cargo bay. Some have doors so you can still access them from the inside - it is just safer and wide they are used in trades.
Definitely interesting to analyze the damage. What interests me in this case is whether, in your view, the foam insulation brought strength to the construction of the van, or influenced the impact of the accident. Hope your friends are able to travel again soon.
Thanks for doing this and to your friends allowing it. Unique content and stuff to think about. Seems like T Nuts with physical fasteners wouldn't pull out like driven screws.
This is something I've been curious about since building out my rig. After some deep consideration I understand why some people keep or install a partition to protect the cab in case of sudden and violent stops.
The only thing that ever survives car crashes, as far as staying attached, are the things welded to the frame or attached with thick bolts to the frame. So I expect everything that's attached to thin wood or that's only screwed in at a shallow depth to fail. If I can pull it really hard to dislodge it, I expect it to fail. If putting all my weight on it can dislodge it, I expect it to fail. My bed frame is mostly 2x1s on 4x4 blocks and 3/4 plywood. My shelving unit is from Walmart. I expect all of that to be splinters in an accident so I have everything big or heavy bolted with heavy duty chains or brackets or ratchet straps to the frame of my van. If I ever roll, it won't be the things in my van that kill me. That being said, I had an EMT friend who really liked to show what happens when people are killed by the stuff in their vehicles so I'm traumatized at this point. I know exactly what happens when a microwave meets the back of someone's head. Even lose paper is in a zippped up bag that's secured by the seatbelts. 🤦♀️
Thank you for showing points of failure and success in this build. I’ve been in lots of accidents and grateful your friends are all right. Did they have a swivel seat base installed? If so, how did that fare in terms of a safety feature for them? I want to install swivel seats in my build but need to consider how to install them safety into an insulated subfloor of a bus. Thanks!
Good study of the aftermath. I hope I never have to find out the strength of my shuttle bus conversion. Most all wood in the bus is 1 3/8" Walnut, screws and no glue.
Hi, I’m glad your friends are ok, the best outcome of a shitty situation. it’s strange to say I think they were lucky to be side swiped vs a head on impact. The idea of everything flying forward freaks me out, surviving the crash only to be hurt by things flying forward. This is why I like your attempts to build out as lightly as possible, less weight to be held securely and less weight flying forward if it does break free. I’m not sure if less weight flying forward would mitigate any injuries but I’ve got to think lighter is better than heavier. Just thinking of battery projectiles is the stuff of nightmares.
No matter how well built, I would be surprised if the fitout survived. I would be interested to learn how the electrics could be made more or less immune to shorts. A 50A charger draws 50A, that doesn't seem hard. The inverter side might draw a few hundreds of amps. I like the idea of the cable disconnecting under stress, sy if the inverter or battery goes flying, but I've not heard of anyone doing that.
We have an IKEA platform bed in our Transit and we throw a pair of ratchet straps over the whole bed when we’re driving, attached to the factory tie down d-rings which are engineered for this purpose.
Good Noone got injured. They were lucky that the force came from the side. Imagine it coming from the front and all that furniture flying in that direction. That's what I am often thinking when I see those hobby and semi professional builds with some roof battens...
I watch A LOT of “VanLife” related content on YT. This is likely THE Most Valuable vid that I can recall. This should be a MUST WATCH for anyone doing a van, wish that all relevant ‘groups’ (e.g. FB) could … promote ? … viewing this.
I completely Get your intro. It surely was a difficult endeavor. But, your ‘post-mortem’ is beyond exceptional.
Thank You !
As someone currently building out a van this video is amazing. Turning what is a tragedy for the owners into an educational video like this is a great service. Thanks for making it and thank the owners for being willing to share it.
You’ve done a valuable service in documenting this and noting what failed and what didn’t. Also glad they didn’t have a child/dog/cat that probably would’ve been badly injured had they been in the coach area. Thanks for sharing this!
Never ever let pets or kids ride unrestrained. pets should absolutely be kenneled in a small travel kennel or set up in a proper pet seat reastraint, and kids need seatbelts.
Bb h. N. N hhhh
@@Trashhauler I couldn't have said it better myself.
pretty sure my cat would land on it's feet through all of the commotion and then just look at me for the next 2 days like I did that on purpose to annoy her.
I'm glad that the accident wasn't worse. They can be terrifying.
When building the next conversion here are a few things to think about (I hope that this is taken in the vein of constructive advice. I have given these matters a lot of thought as I build my van, and hopefully they can be useful for anyone building theirs). Note: I am not an engineer, but I have some knowledge of physics.
The first (very rough) rule of thumb is that during a head on collision into a solid wall at 35 mph, every item in a vehicle will experience a force that is roughly 20 times the force of gravity. A 1 pound object will experience a force on its mounts equivalent to a 20 pound object hanging in a vertical orientation from those same mounts.
What this means is that if you have a cabinet that weighs 40 pounds, it will pull on its mounts as though it were hung from those mounts vertically and weighed 800 pounds. A 100 pound cabinet will pull as though it weighed one ton! (And FWIW, an Ikea 24 x 24 x 30 kitchen cabinet at 150 pounds will pull on its mounts as though it were hung from them and weighed 3,000 pounds).
Of course, these are approximations and assume that the cabinets are perfectly rigid. But overall, this is a fairly close approximation of the actual forces involved. And this includes every item inside of a cabinet. They will add to the overall inertial force that these cabinets need to withstand.
A head on collision into another vehicle of equal weight experiences the exact same forces as crashing into a solid wall. Hitting a tree can similarly lead to these kinds of forces. And a head on collision into a larger vehicle will multiply these numbers.
So, weight is the very first, critical thing to consider when doing a build. If you can get a cabinet down from 40 pounds to 20 pounds, the "forces" it will feel in such an accident will drop from 800 pounds to 400 pounds.* If you can get it down to 10 pounds, then it drops to 200 pounds during an accident. TINY reductions in weight have SIGNIFICANTLY magnified benefits in an accident.
The second thing is in regard to the fasteners used.
First, the fact that the glued joints held up while the screwed joints didn't does point out that glue is stronger than screws, but does not imply that glue is strong enough. It just means that the screws failed first, and once they failed the glue no longer was under any stress until the cabinet (in free fall) hit some other surface (the cabinets will fail like a chain with a weak link). Had the cabinet been fastened in a way that it was not able to tear free, it is possible that the glued joints could have failed.
Note: they may have held up as well. I can't say whether glue is strong enough or not. I'm just saying the fact that in this case that they didn't fail can only be used to indicate that they are stronger than screws, nothing else.
Screws have a very small surface area, and more importantly, the wood that they screw into has a very small surface area and is prone to splintering. So if you have a giant 2x4 screwed into another 2x4 with a single screw, regardless of the sizes of the timber pieces, the actual surface area that is being used to hold the two together is very very small. When subjected to the kinds of forces described above, the tiny bit of wood fiber that they are pressed against cannot hold. Multiple screws will hold better, but again the total amount of wood surface area is limited.
It also suffers from the fact that this surface area is distributed along the length of the screw. I.e. the threads closest to the surface of the wood have very few fibers to hold them in. These can tear out fairly easily (imagine putting a screw 1/16" into some wood and pulling on it with pliers - you can tear the wood out by hand). Once these tear out, the next set below are in a (very very roughly) similar situation and can tear out. And so on. With each successive layer of wood fibers that no longer have fibers "above" them holding them in, the screw winds up having a rapidly decreasing amount of remaining fibers to handle the forces pulling on it.
Instead of screws, through bolts with very wide washers should be used. I cannot guarantee that they will hold up in an accident, but the strength of a through bolt with a washer vs. screws is many many many orders of magnitude higher. And glue everywhere will assist in keeping the cabinets from deforming (a deforming cabinet can pivot on its fasteners like a hinge which increases the chances of tear out). But glue by itself may not be enough if it only penetrates a few mm of wood fibers - as you saw, the wood can splinter if the fibers run perpendicular to the direction of the inertial forces.
I hope this comment is taken in the manner it was meant: Some help in understanding the forces in a crash and how they affect different materials. I really hope your friends rebuild and are not put off of something that clearly brought them joy. But hopefully, also, their next van will be even safer.
*(I am playing fast and loose with the term forces here, you can't measure forces in pounds. But you get the idea.)
I’m planning a van and I was having many of the same thoughts. I went back and forth on a divider between the front seats and the back because of the same points you made.
A water bottle catching you in the head in a crash is enough to end you. On the other hand, anything flying from the rear will likely be caught by the headrest/seat.
After reading your remarks, it’s clear that “likely“ definitely isn’t good enough and I’ve been in denial about the necessity of a separation between the front cabin and the back of the coach. Loss of the feeling of spaciousness is nothing compared to alternative losses.
@@I_Am_SciCurious The nice thing about the dividers is that they are available commercially, and that they are designed (and tested?) by certified engineers. I think your inclination to include it is a very good one and - with luck - you will never know if it works.
Great comments here. I'm not an engineer, but have experience in building. My DIY Transit build is almost finished. All wall/ceiling connections were made using 1/4 x 20 Riv-nuts and large/wide washers. I made a full-height, floor to ceiling, cabinet housing the fridge (on bottom) and closet/pantry right behind the drivers seat so as to be at least a partial barrier. Also, regarding the glueing/screwing of wood panels, I watched a video where the carpenter compared pocket holes first glued vs those screwed only; the glued joints were MUCH stronger. The wood will fail before the glue. Just saying.
Another point to bring up here, would be using Baltic Birch vs regular pine plywood, and MORE importantly, use 7-ply vs the cheaper 3to5-ply that you find at Lowes/Menards/Home Depot.
Hope I never have to see how my build out weathers a crash.
Do you build for others?
@@ldygzlle1291 I actually don't for a number of reasons. First is just time. I have a day job that consumes most of my free time. The second is simple liability. I am a total amateur. I build as strong as I can with an eye on the physics of collisions, but I am not an engineer and I can't warrant that my work would be strong enough to survive an accident.
But if you build your own m(or hire it out) keep the two most important facts in mind:
The (very roughly) 20x force multiplier in case of a head on collision, and how that is affected by weight.
I built my cabinets out of "quickframe" from 80/20 (you can also get it from EstoConnectors for less, but they use a marginally less strong aluminum alloy - that said, I would expect it to be plenty strong for these purposes. I would use them in my next build to save money).
The panels on the sides of the quickframe are made from lightweight 1/8" plywood that I pop-rivet to the aluminum frame. This adds stiffness, but not much weight. Any weight bearing surfaces (like the bed or the top of a cabinet that people will sit on) are made from 1/4" plywood. But I keep that to an absolute minimum.
All of the connections to the van (and to other cabinets) are made by bolting through the aluminum frame. The light weight of the cabinets (4 total cabinets between 5 and 20 pounds per cabinet in my case) coupled with bolts going through aluminum into the frame of the van (using plus nuts in the frame of the van) mean that this is all very very firmly attached and not likely to tear out in the case of an accident.
Also, my heaviest cabinet (the 20 pound one that will effectively tug on its mounts as though it weighed 400 pounds in an accident) is bolted to the floor of the van with six bolts going to six plus nuts... and is mounted on the floor directly behind the front seats - i.e. the seats are pushed up against this cabinet to provide it with extra support.
Note: One plus nut is usually certified to resist about 200 pounds of pull out force when put into .75mm steel sheet metal. If you distribute the forces over multiple plus nuts across a wide surface area - i.e. the entire length and width of your cabinet- you should have a very strong connection.
But like I said, I am not an engineer so this is just what I am doing, not a guarantee of safety.
If you want to build your own, I would strongly recommend the quickframe material (or EstoConnectors). It is super easy to build a cabinet from this stuff. If you have the aluminum pre-cut (which can be expensive) then you only need a mallet to assemble the frame. You would need to be able to cut wood, drill holes in aluminum (simple wood drill bits are perfectly find for this) and use pop-rivets (a $18 tool will handle that). If you want to save money, cutting aluminum is super easy with most wood working tools. A circular saw with an aluminum cutting blade does it super easily (you can even just use a regular wood blade as well, but the cuts will be slightly rougher - that said I used a regular wood cutting blade myself).
The last step is drilling holes in your van for the plus nuts (note: not regular rivet nuts - use plus nuts. Multiple vendors carry these and you can get them online). It seems scary, but once you start doing it, it is not hard. A regular drill and drill bit will work. Just be sure that when you are drilling through the floor of your van that you don't drill into a brake line or gas tank. I used a block of wood that was just about 1/4" shorter than my drill bit, drilled through that and then used it as a way to make sure my drill bit never went more than 1/4" into the body of the van. Super easy and 100% reliable in preventing me from drilling into anything important. Don't forget to paint the newly drilled holes with some paint meant for metal. You don't want rust.
Good luck!
Thank you for this content. You did a great job of covering the accident, the damage, all while being sensitive to your friends. I thank them for allowing you to film and dissect the build. I wish more content like this was out there. Taking a bad day and making it educational for those who are building is a great service. As a former Fire/EMS volunteer, I've seen bad things happen. To have a resource that shows and examines what weak points are in builds is priceless. Glad your friends are ok.
A fascinating and informative video. While uncomfortable to film and share, it’s important as it provides insights that are almost always impossible for average builders to access. Namely real accident evidence.
So thank you for posting.
It is suggested in a number of places in the video and in the comments that DIY vans are somehow less safe than commercial converted vans - I am curious as to the evidence for this statement. Having rented and travelled in a handful of vans from big corporations I would not bet on successful outcomes in accidents. In the drive to save cost these things are flimsy.
Class B RVs are likely the most safe of all RVs as the base van has to go through crash testing. And there are more and more advanced safety features that you don’t find in other RV.
But there is no requirement to crash a converted van to test for accident worthiness. And without crashing we don’t know the failure points.
So we pull what we can from videos like this…plywoods over solid woods, glue to distribute forces are a good idea. A bulkhead - though rarely included in any build, commercial or diy would be a good addition. Make sure everything is bolted down.
Outside of solid mounts for the lithium batteries, are there other ways to secure? Modern cars themselves have pyro fuses that cut the battery if the airbags blow. Are there similar features for house battery banks?
Any other major take-always?
A follow on video or two with suggestions would be exceeding valuable.
Thanks…
Glad that your friends are ok although sad for their van. Thanks for sharing as a learning experience for all.
Thanks for sharing! Super happy to hear they walked away. I also had a similar experience and am so happy modern engineering is keeping more of us alive. Keep wearing those seatbelts!
This is a great study. Thanks for sharing. Please send your friend warm thoughts from here. Also - make sure she stays proud of her build quality. The fact that they walked away and much of the build actually seems to have survived the initial accident (even if there were more failures when the van was righted). Well done.
Thanks for this video. I have always been curious as to what could happen in an accident... This was insightful.
Great to hear everyone is ok, and they are approaching this situation with such a positive outlook.
Thanks to you for sharing these valuable lessons and reminding all of us that these beloved vans are still vehicles on the road and need to be able to be as safe as possible in these awful scenarios.
Keep up the good work!
This is a great video. All while building my van ive always wondered how things would hold up during a collision/accident. Im sorry for your friends and i hope all is well. Thank you to them for allowing you to film this and provide it for the (van) world to see.
Thanks for sharing.
First, and foremost, I’m glad to hear that your friends didn’t get hurt in that accident.
Second, good points made about the failure modes in the build.
That accident is exactly how my stepdad died in his work truck back in '92. They were t-boned. The other truck slammed right into his passenger door.
I thank god your friends are alright. Vehicle safety has come a long way in the last thirty years and I'm so glad for it. I could go the rest of my life without senseless tragedy.
Glad your friends are okay! Great information. Interesting point with the adhesive, it makes sense as it probably covers more surface area than a nail or screw. Reading though some other comments it sesms you are helping others reassess the safety aspects in their builds. Much respect. Thank you for sharing.
Thank you for putting up this video. We are pleased that your friends are ok. The results of the accident have given us a lot to think about in regards to what can happen inside a vehicle. We live in a 9 metre bus, so have concerns as to what is safe and what needs looking at. We already know that in an earthquake situation that you don't have a hope in hell of getting out of a vehicle until the shaking stops, by then you could be on your side and totally trashed inside. Take care, Denise and Neil.
I have a 2020 Promaster with a similar build. I can’t tell you how much this video means for me and my family. Thank you, so much!
What matters is stay alive, thanks for sharing, as it helps thinking while planing and building.
From one of the worst days imaginable to sharing with the community, your friends and you have done a great service. Thank you for sharing! Most of your viewers are likely not engineers but I think we can all learn a lot by the visuals of the the destructive force a crash can cause. It seems to me that solid lumber will split like kindling under the axe when stressed so maybe plywood might be better as furring strips or mounting surfaces and through bolted whenever possible. Glad your friends are safe and thanks for posting this respectfully done video.
Great video. Important and should be seen by every builder.
Great example of the need to understand the materials you use and their failure modes. The lumber failure is no shock to me. There's a reason that 1x SPF or pine boards are used in those silly martial arts demo's. Completely random grain structure and variations in density. Plywood, while not perfect and requires getting a quality grade, is much more predictable and consistent.
The screws shown at 11:20 certainly looked pretty short, but may have been the max that the material they were going into allowed.
I'd wonder, and this is just my coffee shop engineer brain making a guess, if some of those screws that pulled out of the 1x lumber wasn't partially a consequence of not only the previously mentioned inconsistencies in fiber density of the lumber, but also the flex/stretching of the wood. That split second of the fibers expanding just enough to let go of the screws. Obviously the brute force of the impact is the majority. But the tiny factors can pile up and be a contributor.
Came here from the vid about your use of plywood that I saw on the side bar while watching Joseph's vid's over at Sharing the Wild. And this definitely adds to further some of the points you made in that vid.
Thanks to the van owners for allowing this rare look at the aftermath. And given what could have happened, it looks to me like they actually did a better than average build for a first timer.
Wow,, so informative, there is nothing like this available about what could happen if a collision occurs. Glad to see that they were not injured. As you point out, a lot of the force is been applied on all point of attachments. So there is compromise to be done between, the modularity and the potential need to access or modify components and lowering the risk of modules flying around. I am also taking note that wood as a structural elements (furring strips and 2x4's)maybe not the best either. On the other side plywood showed great impact resistance and stayed attached to the walls.
Plywood is generally much stronger than "natural" wood because regular wood will splinter where the inertial forces are parallel to the wood grain. Plywood has grain in both directions so that helps it be much stronger.
But the fact that the plywood stayed attached to the walls only tells you that it was stronger than the wood the screws were. Nothing else. If the screws had somehow held, it is possible the plywood would have failed. It is like a chain. It will fail at the weakest link, but that does not tell you if any of the other links were strong enough. Only that they were stronger than the weakest link.
Thanks for sharing this, and particularly the analysis of the strong and weak points. And the comments about the battery system - definitely something to think about in planning my build!
Much appreciated this video as this is a topic that I've never seen covered before. I see so many van builds online that are "enough stuff crammed together to keep it from shifting" built.
While I'm not exactly sure where the lesson was learned, but I was always taught to never keep anything on the rear shelf in a car to prevent it from becoming a projectile. I think that early logic can be applied here as well, despite the nature of the impact in this specific case.
I'm curious if the aluminium builds would fair any better. More importantly, is there any prevention methods to better secure batteries? Any extra coverings would have a possible negative impact heat wise, I would think. This video *should* open many rabbit holes for van life safety. For example, microwaves mounted high on the van sides always seemed like a safety hazard. What happens to all the propane, extra gas tanks and butane cans in the event of a collision?
These issues should be the next big thing in van life as some choose this lifestyle and so many others are being forced into it for economic reasons.
Batteries can be bolted down to the floor with a simple steel square tube frame or steel straps. Nylon straps would work too if they’re heavy gauge enough. Would go minimum 20x the weight of the battery in total strap rating to protect against the worst accident possible. 100lb battery, 2000lbs minimum of straps. And hooks can be through-bolted to the floor. Match the pullout rating of the bolt to be 2.5x minimum the rating of its connecting strap. If strap is rated at 1000lbs, connecting bolt should be rated at 2,500 lbs - 1/4” 20tpi would be adequate. Use multiple, large washers and nylon lock nuts. Stainless steel will not rust over time in a van.
I'm impressed with how well everything stayed together to protect the occupants. Thankfully no one was hurt.
Thank you for this. It has given me pause for thought to perhaps reconsider some of the construction design choices I'm making for my current van project. A very thoughtful and considered piece. Thanks.
Thanks for sharing this. So many builders use solid spruce lumber for framing. Over time it'll dry and shrink and no matter what kind of screw or glue you use, in an accident such as this .... things will fail and become projectiles. All interior finishes should be veneer core plywood, mechanically anchored to the frame of the van. It's not hard ... but it's critical for safety. I'm so glad no one was hurt. But this is exactly why the insurance industry makes it so hard for conversion vans .............. be well ..... Dave
Great detailed video. I don't think there is anyone out there talking about camper van builds and collisions, although I feel very badly for the couple who this happened to.
After watching, I think it is probably best to avoid any overhead storage and have all the storage as low as possible. I mean, imagine what would happen in a front collision (as opposed to a side collision). The overhead cabinetry could detach from the side walls and go flying straight into the back of the passengers head. This could be fatal. Just something to think about when doing a van conversion.
My work van from a previous job had a metal wall with a built in door. This separated you from all the stuff in the back and protected the driver and passenger in case of an accident. If I ever built a van I think I would incorporate that. I’m currently doing a cargo trailer conversion.
@@gerrycollins9409 Great point! I have been looking at some used cargo vans online and indeed as you mentioned some come with a metal divider between the cab and the cargo area. But as far as I can remember none came with a door. I wonder if there is a way to fit one on a solid thik sheet of metal. After watching this video, perhaps I should retain the metal wall if I get van that comes with one. Or I should install one if one is absent. Best regards.
@@gerrycollins9409 Work vans who use the back as cargo need to have a bulkhead. All these conversions won't pass an inspection and youtuber's keep showing really bad builds - most seem like they are using tools for the first time when they slap them together.
Agreed. I was on the fence about overhead *cabinets* vs overhead *soft luggage.* This made that call easy. I would not worry about having a soft "cabinet" on L or J track hung high if it only held clothing. Point taken.
This is how we learn and get better.
So sorry that your friends lost their van but glad they're ok. Thank you for sharing this as we can all learn something about how to make our vans safer and more structurally sound.
important to design so nothing becomes a projectile
Thanks, happy nobody's hurt! I will use those tips for sure in my build starting soon on a promaster 3500.
I’m so glad they walked out of that 💕
Hugs and strength to them both in their mental recovery 👍🏽🇦🇺
No apologies needed. Thank you for sharing and for being so vulnerable. Hope your friends recover completely.
Can you do a short video on how the insurance performed?
Great they were able to walk away uninjured.
Definitely something I've thought about while planning my build. Especially with regards to balancing strength vs. weight savings and where forces may go during an impact.
Excellent job documenting a difficult situation and the scientific approach of the failure points that ensued. TFS. Cheers
Not criticizing, just hypothesis-ing for theories on avoiding aftermath problems: .... it looked like the leisure batteries were still connected in the clean up phase? Should they and the engine battery not be disconnected as soon as possible, if possible. A short could happen hours or days after the crash if something structural inside were to fall and hit off two frayed wires, or if rain got in and made a connection between terminals or frayed wires.
Big Thank you to your friends for sharing their terrible day. It now has me considering how to integrate an emergency exit into a roof vent when I build my van to help aid escape, as this could happen to anyone driving a big top heavy van. Good lesson on hoping for the best and planning for the worst.
Thank you for this! I am building out a van and will definitely consider the structural integrity from a different perspective. So glad your friends are ok!
Interesting. Thanks for sharing.
Looks similar to my first build that I bolted to the factory floor bolt holes and built out of 2x4’s and Kreg screws.
Batteries are strapped down and blocked in place.
Over 3 years nothing came loose or rattled.
I built this way to live with the layout before committing to more expensive components.
Glad they are OK.
Your videos are really good! I really appreciate how technical you are.
You come over as a great person - thanks for doing these.
So please that your friends weren't seriously injured, really interesting video, thanks for sharing.
The accident looks like it would have been far less likely to have happened if the road junction was a roundabout, which are much safer. And if there was an accident at a roundabout the impact speed would likely have much less.
Really appreciate the walkthrough. Thanks for sharing this with us, will definitely inform my choices going forward.
Happy to hear the couple were okay first and foremost. Accidents are heart wrenching thing to happen. Bad enough for any vehicle to get into one, worse if it's your home.
They walked away from it..
And can we give the Solar Panels a thumbs up..They stayed put...
it is informative, i agree, who cares what happened in a major accident regarding the 'afterbuild if u are building for light weight. . what is important is what happens and how stable are things after the "shake n bake" of travel of 10K, 20K,30K, 40K, and higher road use. What i did learn is that the vechichule did absorb the accident as designed...with no serious effect on the passangers...really cool, thks for posting.
Great to see your friends are OK. That was a great van based on the Fiat Ducato. I have a first generation ducato based camper van from the 80's that is still running to this very date.
So glad YT sent this my way. Interesting lessons. We’re having a van built and this is our worst nightmare. Their next van will be that much better.
Loose change in a cup holder goes everywhere.
The police officer questioned a coworker about a tire and wheel inside his suv that didn’t make sense.
It was the spare from the vehicle that hit him.
There all kinds of advice on how to build something.
One thing to keep in mind is anything carried in a vehicle, attached or not, has the potential to move and kill you.
There are plenty of accidents that would have been survivable because the vehicles didn’t fail, but the contents killed the occupants.
It doesn’t matter if it’s a van build or your common daily driver.
Learn what you can from other’s experience.
Plan the best you can.
Live every chance you get.
Ultimately none of us end life alive.
Happy motoring 🐅
WoW!!, Sry this happened to U guys.Thank you very much for this post! e.g.,as a DIY-er this has enlightened me tremendously & heighten my skills for safety in a build!
If the accident had caused any of those cabinets to fly into the cab area, it would have been horrific. Use aluminum extrusion bolted to the frame in these builds..
I can empathize a lot.. I was in a head on last day of last year (100 mph min) ... and it is difficult and the whole life can change... thanks for this work ... be good and drive safe...
Thanks for the video. The van did AMAZING! Good to see it held together and did what it was supposed to do - protect the passengers. Being hit by an SUV/Truck, they're lucky there were in a heavy van and not a small car. Weight makes a big difference.
My heart goes out to your friends and the lose of the van. Praise God they were not seriously injured! I hope they get back to van life soon.
Thank you. Probably the most useful YT ever.
I am converting a people carrier (miniVan in American). It is an 8 seat Hyundai i800. My philosophy was - style, lightweight, no holes drilled in body, glue not screw, use original hard points ie seat belt points to fix the furniture, aluminium extrusion (80-20 in American) and thin board for the furniture walls, floor of 9mm not 19mm, 24 volt electrics to cook my weird diet, LiFePO4 and a proper electrical system.
I didn't want what most vans look like ie designed by kitchen fitters. Though some do look like very nice kitchens. But that is not for me.
I wanted something that worked the way I would use it. That recognised it was a mobile environment like the Italian Futurists or Art Deco or Steam Punk. I didn't want a mobile IKEA kitchen. It is very hard getting style into a small space that is also functional.
It also had to be fixed to crash tested mounting points.
It will be lighter than the original vehicle.
Thank for your investigation of crash worthiness.
That sounds pretty much what I'm doing to, in a VW Caddy Life mpv. Aluminium 2020 profile bolted to the lashing points and to the seat floor supports (I take the rear seats out when in camper mode, which is most of the time, but part of the bed can be easily unbolted and removed if I need to use the car for more than 2 passengers and put the seats back in. Due to the small size of the vehicle i'm not using doors on my under bed storage, but strapping my backrest mattress cushion to the side of the bed frame when in transit with webbing and web -bridges to secure to the frame to effectively be the doors. I'm using pull-out fabric boxes under the bed to keep the weight down. Pretty much everything has to have dual purposes! And I'm using ample web bridges and webbing to quickly and easily secure stuff.
Most woodworkers will tell you that the strongest joints are glued. The screws are usually used to hold the joint while the glue dries so you can continue building instead of having to wait for the glue to dry. A lot of this build actually looks overbuilt, so maybe better than many professional builds.
But that’s the point it doesn’t do any good to over build a lot of it because a chain is only as strong as its weakest link
Thanks for sharing. I don't think this is something anyone thinks about when they're building out their van. I am in the middle of doing my build, and it's been top of mind for me. I am definitely not going with the IKEA bed slat idea anymore! I am also glad your friends are okay.
I'm using the ikea bed slats, velcroed to the bed frame (aluminium profile), but the mattress is fitted with straps to the bed frame (through web bridges) , so would keep the slats in place, as well as the mattress. I've tried to think of how each piece would behave in the event of a rear shunt, a head on collision or an overturning, when doing my design. As my mpv van is a microcamper with no separation between the front and rear, this is of particular importance.
I hope this video is watched by lots of DIY camper van builders. I used to drive vans for a living and I know how careful you have to load a vehicle and how to drive. There is no way I would drive a van fully loaded with the bulkhead removed yet the vast majority of DIY camper van builds remove the bulkhead. There is a reason why vans have bulkheads but newbies don’t understand it’s an essential safety feature. For them, it’s an inconvenience which needs removing.
I wouldn’t criticise DIY camper van builders as they are just enthusiastic newbies at most required skills e.g. generally they don’t have van driving experience, they don’t have woodworking experience, they don’t have lithium battery experience, they are not used to thinking safety first, comfort second.
I think it’s great the number of people willing to build their own camper vans but they need curb their enthusiasm a bit and think safety first in their design. This is a vehicle, all vehicles are dangerous. You design your build expecting the van to be in accident, a camper van is a vehicle first, home second.
Thank you Man for putting out this video. Im sorry for your lost and thank God that you and love one in your van did not sustain serious damage and turns out in good health. When it come to the Van, Ouch! that hurts. I don't know what your back up is when someone have brutally destroyed your home. So I hope that you may recover quickly. I Owen a Promaster Just like yours and it is self built. I just hope that I don't find my self in a situation like yours because my Van is all I have. NO Nearby Family, NO place to stay and everything I owe will be in the Van. It will be deverstating for my wife and me. May God help anyone in a situation like this.
my uncle and aunt had a blown tire- related crash in a Hymer RV, luckily both survived, they both woke up outside of the van, (he hanging by his shirt at the side mirror, ish) - there was NOTHING left of the whole backside of the camper. The rear section had become 200 metres of pulp spread out onto the highway. Something to keep in mind. They were lucky - had both been strapped into their seats.
the side impact airbags were absolutely worth their money here.
Kudos for your video. I think more people should consider how reliable their van is regarding possible crash. Great points from you, thank you.
Having built a few things in my life, the temptation is to always use readily available materials similar to what is used in houses. My suggestion would be to go for much lighter materials, well worth the little extra expense considering the gas savings. Also you have to remember inertia, the heavier, the more energy is given up in a crash, so more internal damage.
Finishing up my 2020 Transit 250 Extended High Roof build, and was very curious to see how this DIY build handled the crash. Very informational. Tragic accident for sure, yet nothing serious that wasn't recoverable. Thanks for the video.
Very interesting video, and very delicately handled. Hope I manage to be as graceful with this comment as I am not a native english speaker.
Seeing the split wood and the screws along the fault line sure was an eye opener. I have never built a van for camping but have done some boatbuilding and there we glued everything and used fillets+tapes. I am sure there is some point of failure there as well.
Considering all the stuff that might loosen and go flying during an accident, perhaps a bulkhead with a smallish opening (door/hatch) between the driving compartment and the living area is a thing worth to consider? Would be some weight there even if done in high density foam+glass, but could also make a real difference.
Your friends seemed to be both healthy and in good spirits in the video. That is always the important thing.
Good video. It’s important to learn what works and what doesn’t.
Glad to hear they are ok.
Insightful. Thank you for sharing this. I am really happy that your friends are safe, healthy, and received what they felt they were compensated at best.
Thanks for documenting. It was very interesting to see how things failed. Sucks that stuff like this happens but would be super interesting to see more of these types of videos. Glad your friends were ok. If they do another build it would be awesome to do a walkthrough of it someday.
Excellent video. So much valuable information was gained from this unfortunate event. I'm glad your peeps are ok!
So scary. Glad they are ok. Wow, the van took the impact and they stayed safe.
When I see travelers and van lifers that get in a collision I think about their safety and any pets that may be traveling with them safety. I see that there were no pets with them and glad they are ok!
Honest thanks for sharing this. Making me reconsider how I have my van built (mostly rivnuts for securing things to the walls)... but my batteries may not do so well in a crash. Also making me seriously guilty that since adding a new dog to my house, I haven't gotten around to making her a secure place... she's just in a loose travel crate while we're in motion, and that'd go flying. Other dog is in a secured metal crate, she'd bounce around in the crate, but it would stay fixed in place. *sigh* too late to do anything about it before this years trip.... glad your friends were unscathed and hope they're eager to build another.
A gunner or ruffwear crate for your dog will give you peace of mind
Glad you guys are ok
The van is broken but they have their memories of all the good travels and experiences. Glad they’re safe.
12:00 is the reason why our motor vehicle inspection authority forbids the use of any softwood (and poplar plywood) as they tend to rip along their grain and create very long and pointy bits flying around during a crash. I never thought about it before but totally get their point. Interesting to actually see it happen in real life (and that a lot of rules are written with the blood of the less fortunate)
Almost every build on youtube would never pass any sort of real vehicle inspection.
@@corail53 they're otherwise okay with DIY builds as long as it's not obviously sketchy and well secured to the vehicle. As far as crash safety goes not even any of the commercially available campers would ever pass
Professionally built Motorhomes would fair worse or at least no better. They’re just too heavy. I think they actually did quite well. The forces involved in an accident are huge. Looking at it they did a good job keeping the weight down. They were ‘lucky’ it was a side-on. I think a head-on would’ve been catastrophic.
I just watched the RV heat at a local demolition derby. Those commercially built vehicles did WAY worse. This is kind of a "bad vs. worse" scenario unfortunately. No accident is a good one in any kind of camper.
I built out a work truck before and now I’m building out an old Dodge sprinter van. My first thought was safety in case of a frontal impact crash. What I did was I built a wall of two 3/4 inch sheets of plywood screwed together behind the driver’s seat firmly anchored to the sidewall, to the floor and to the roof so that I have some protection from stuff flying forward in a crash.
Thanks for sharing this. It highlighted some things that I should look at in my build.
Excellent video to increase awareness about crash worthiness. That's why every cabinet in my van is reinforced and bolted down, with M6 Tnuts into the van walls / floor (Raphvan blog).
Indeed, containing the batteries (or water tank if inside) is critical in case of a crash. A collision experiencing just a few Gs of deceleration will easily make them weigh over a few 1000lbs. No glue or wood screw is going to hold that. Even just a water bottle can become a 40lbs bullet.
Another key electrical safety practice is to cover every exposed terminal post to avoid short-circuits in case of foreign objects (or someone dropping a wrench...). These guys were lucky that none of the teminals at 14:55 short-circuited with the bed's metal bars, pans, etc.
Saw people use a diesel heater and install its small tank inside the van. Imagine that thing dripping after a crash... Hopefully after this video some folks will reconsider.
It' pretty unrealistic to expect things to stay attached to a wall when the wall quickly and violently changes shape.
Yeah agreed, still quite informative to see the weakest links in the system, even if you would never normally subject the system to anything like this kind of force.
They used solid wood instead of plywood for their cabinets @10:30. So the solid wood broke along the grain 🤔
Thanks for the post crash analysis. It certainly has me thinking a bit. May have saved someone else who will build their van more robustly.
Use a work sprinter - the ones with a metal bulkhead separating the drivers/passenger from the cargo bay. Some have doors so you can still access them from the inside - it is just safer and wide they are used in trades.
Definitely interesting to analyze the damage. What interests me in this case is whether, in your view, the foam insulation brought strength to the construction of the van, or influenced the impact of the accident.
Hope your friends are able to travel again soon.
Thanks for doing this and to your friends allowing it.
Unique content and stuff to think about.
Seems like T Nuts with physical fasteners wouldn't pull out like driven screws.
Very valuable information! Thank you guys for sharing this!
This reminds me i need to improve my battery hold-down anchors before my next outing. Dead shorts = fire if you have enough kWH, & fire is bad poo
This is something I've been curious about since building out my rig. After some deep consideration I understand why some people keep or install a partition to protect the cab in case of sudden and violent stops.
The only thing that ever survives car crashes, as far as staying attached, are the things welded to the frame or attached with thick bolts to the frame. So I expect everything that's attached to thin wood or that's only screwed in at a shallow depth to fail. If I can pull it really hard to dislodge it, I expect it to fail. If putting all my weight on it can dislodge it, I expect it to fail. My bed frame is mostly 2x1s on 4x4 blocks and 3/4 plywood. My shelving unit is from Walmart. I expect all of that to be splinters in an accident so I have everything big or heavy bolted with heavy duty chains or brackets or ratchet straps to the frame of my van. If I ever roll, it won't be the things in my van that kill me.
That being said, I had an EMT friend who really liked to show what happens when people are killed by the stuff in their vehicles so I'm traumatized at this point. I know exactly what happens when a microwave meets the back of someone's head. Even lose paper is in a zippped up bag that's secured by the seatbelts. 🤦♀️
An interesting video. I'm just starting my first van build, and there was a lot of "food for thought" in this video.
Thank you for showing points of failure and success in this build. I’ve been in lots of accidents and grateful your friends are all right. Did they have a swivel seat base installed? If so, how did that fare in terms of a safety feature for them? I want to install swivel seats in my build but need to consider how to install them safety into an insulated subfloor of a bus. Thanks!
Good study of the aftermath. I hope I never have to find out the strength of my shuttle bus conversion. Most all wood in the bus is 1 3/8" Walnut, screws and no glue.
Hi, I’m glad your friends are ok, the best outcome of a shitty situation. it’s strange to say I think they were lucky to be side swiped vs a head on impact. The idea of everything flying forward freaks me out, surviving the crash only to be hurt by things flying forward. This is why I like your attempts to build out as lightly as possible, less weight to be held securely and less weight flying forward if it does break free. I’m not sure if less weight flying forward would mitigate any injuries but I’ve got to think lighter is better than heavier. Just thinking of battery projectiles is the stuff of nightmares.
No matter how well built, I would be surprised if the fitout survived.
I would be interested to learn how the electrics could be made more or less immune to shorts. A 50A charger draws 50A, that doesn't seem hard. The inverter side might draw a few hundreds of amps. I like the idea of the cable disconnecting under stress, sy if the inverter or battery goes flying, but I've not heard of anyone doing that.
Well shit. Now I wish I used more glue.
You're a legit good dude.
Finally subscribed after watching this video.
We have an IKEA platform bed in our Transit and we throw a pair of ratchet straps over the whole bed when we’re driving, attached to the factory tie down d-rings which are engineered for this purpose.
Good Noone got injured. They were lucky that the force came from the side. Imagine it coming from the front and all that furniture flying in that direction. That's what I am often thinking when I see those hobby and semi professional builds with some roof battens...
Wow!!! Hope everyones really okay.